Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - A Joe Rogan Experience Review 188

Episode Date: November 23, 2019

This week we analyze podcast 1383 Malcolm Gladwell, 1385 Paul Stamets and 1386 Matt Taibbi. Malcolm is the author of Outliers and other interesting works. He discusses A police incident during a traffic stop and the Bernie Madoff crimes. Check out his website for books: https://www.gladwellbooks.com/ Paul the mushroom man discusses the changes in public perception of psilocybin and the benefits of micro-dosing. Just be careful with mushroom hats as they are flammable lol New micro-dosing app: https://www.microdosestudy.com/ Also his website for suppliments: https://fungi.com/ https://hostdefense.com/ Matt Taibbi is a journalistics genius. Any man that has Hunter S. Thompsons old job must be a bad mother fucker. He has some great thoughts on the Epstein conspiracy. Check him out: https://www.rollingstone.com/results/#?q=matt%20taibbi Enjoy folks! Follow me on Instagram at www.instagram.com/joeroganexperiencereview Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6ilK4Zrqk2ZeowbOo7pXgw? Please email us here with any suggestions and questions for future shows..

Tía que sé, también un poquito de agua de tu botella, por favor. ¿Qué botella, tía? Es una batidora. Que sí, tía, que una botella de plástico en el contenedor amarillo puede ser cantidad de cosas. Ya. Pero me das agua de tu batidora. Recicla tu botella de plástico en el contenedor amarillo y participa en la economía circular. Reduce, reutiliza, recicla, ecómbes.

You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. Enjoy the show. Five, four, three, 2, 1. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.

What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host, Adam Thorn, and Mark Hampton. This might either be the worst podcast, or the best one of all time. Hello guys, welcome to the JRE review podcast This is your host Mark Hampton joined by Adam Thorn. What's going on Adam? No much buddy. How are you? I'm good dude. How's the week? Yes, it is shaping up and We've had some good episodes some interesting some controversial ones too

Coming in yes Yes we have. Heavy. We got one from last week that we're throwing down. That's the Malcolm Gladwell. 1383 podcast. We're going to. Yeah. We're going to cover that one. Then Paul Stammertz, the mushroom man. Great to have him back on podcast 1385. And then we're going to finish up with good old Matt Taibi 1386 and I nailed his last name thank god you nailed it all right so Malcolm is a journalist author he wrote the book the out which I own, and it's very interesting. It's just basically about, he was on before and talked about it with Joe, and it's just like how very successful people became who they are and what the training and the procedures

were for that. So he kind of does a lot of statistical work in a sense. He doesn't really analyze cases of things, but he just looks for patterns. And he opens up talking to Joe with a controversial and a lot of us remember this because it got a lot of press. Controversial situation with the police officer arresting an African-American lady for I believe having not not signaling, it was something very tiny. It wasn't much.

But then every, yeah, good. Yeah, we're just escalated into, she ended up smoking. She wouldn't put a cigarette out. The police officer got pretty pissed off, arrested her, and sadly, in custody a few days later, she committed suicide and they kind of broke down of the the whole take on that. She was in custody like three days too, something like that wasn't. Yeah, it was a while for something as tiny as that and she she'd been in trouble with the cops

before she had plenty of other outstanding tickets. So, you know, Malcolm talked about her just being very frustrated, you know, with the whole system. And I think if anyone's had a ticket, which everybody has, I'm sure, you know, you do feel like, I don't know, it's frustrating, obviously, even if you did break the law, but it's one of those things. It's like, damn it, they caught me. You know, they got me for this fuck. Now I have to pay for it. And if you end up getting maybe another pocket to get within a few days or like something else, it feels like everything's against you.

So, you know, you can easily start getting pretty pissed off with law enforcement because of that, which is somewhat understandable for some people, right? 100%. But the question is, was this handled well? Was, should it have been handled like this? And really the real question is, what is the alternative? Yeah, I think without a doubt it wasn't handled well, right?

And there were also questions about, because she was left alone in that cell. I mean, it's a little Jeffrey Epstein, right, on a different, on the other end of the scale type of thing, where there was a lot of people who thought maybe she wasn't, she didn't kill herself, that, you know, she, you know, was left. Maybe she didn't kill herself that, you know, she, you know, was left. Then maybe she was murdered or maybe that they were watching her and they were. Yeah. It was and talk about that early on, but I think, I think that just because of the like, the profile of the case, it would have been, I mean, there's very little real motive to

go to such lengths. So that one's the tough one. And then when they look into her, I guess she was on different types of medication, she just made a big change in her life and tried to like, stop new. That's right. She did. And then immediately gets hit again. So that's a bit of a motive for like just being really fed up with the whole situation. Whether they have a little right or not, leaving her alone to do that was, you know, no good. Well, she shouldn't have been in jail for three days for something as minor as that. I mean, what the hell?

You should have been bailed. She should have been, you know, booked and released on her own with cognizance that afternoon with a set court date. Like there's no reason, like that's a minor thing. She should have been, I mean, she should. She should have been in out in two hours. There's no reason to go through an arrangement or a bail here or a bond hearing. Like it's gonna end up being a misdemeanor.

At best, you know what, really what happened? The prosecutor probably would have thrown it out. There's absolutely no reason that she should have been jailed for three days for such a fucking minor thing. For sure. And for that, I agree with, right? Definitely. But reeling it in a little just to the circumstances that led to it, circumstances of the arrest, like how the police officer acted. You know, it's easy to jump on cops case, right? And that was really my immediate thought as well. Like, I'm not a police officer. And really, the only time I deal with them, I'm either about to get in trouble or think

I might be, you know? So you get nervous and you come up with your own way of perceiving them, which is understandable. You know, they can, you know, they got guns. And if you do something wrong, of course, they're allowed to shoot you potentially. It's scary stuff. Of course, but yeah, I do have friends that are police officers A few in Inglewood even which is close to us and I Spoke to that. I actually wanted to get one of them on and he was gonna come and talk about it But we couldn't get that arranged, but he Pass some interesting thoughts now obviously being a cop, he's going to be more than likely on the side of the cop. And he wasn't course. He wasn't

super up-date on this case, though he had listened to Robyn. And, you know, you can get quite a bit of information off what Malcolm was saying. But one thing he did lay out, because I said straight up to him, there was the issue of her smoking and she wouldn't put the cigarette out. And I was just thinking, well, that's not against the law, then she's allowed to do it and these cops need to stop stepping over there, you know, the mark with that. But at the same point, and you and I have both worked security and bars and night clubs, and you know, you're still doing it.

We also know that if you're having an issue with somebody, and then from the get-go, they're just not listening to anything that you say, right? They would, you know, you're like, just please stand over here, don't take your drink out, and everything is pushback, then it, almost the only way to get a hold of that situation is to, is to kind of double down on your original request. Even if they're not really like the policy, like standing over here or putting your drink down there is maybe not like official bar policy, like written in the handbook of security for that. But it's a bit of discretion, right?

It's a bit of discretion. You can't have everything written in there. And he made that point and he's saying, look, she already has a lot of tickets, right? She's already had some issues with the law which could make her volatile and in some degree, right? And yeah, it's just a woman. But what I mean by that is to say that he should know

isn't a thing. Yeah, there's a thing should be violent or anything like that. Yeah, but at the same time, he's got to kind of treat everyone in a little bit the same way, right? There's a lot of tickets. This is just a process. She's not listening. And I need to get a hold of this situation. And I don't know lack of training Have it a bad day, you know or just being like a Kind of very reactive person. It seemed like he did overreact and Got kind of unnecessarily aggressive and he really just didn't give her the space necessary to calm the situation down exactly aggressive and he really just didn't give her the space necessary to calm the situation down. Exactly.

But it was an interesting take. It was interesting to be like, ah, it kind of is a bit of that. Like, I think what would I do in that situation? And it's like at the end of the day, you know, if I have a complaint about something that was happening, like, oh, you made me put my cigarette at. Well, I think it's pretty clear that you should just try and follow them at the end of the day. And then, yeah, you can complain about it later if you feel like it was all handled wrong, you know, either in court or with a lawyer, but I don't think that that's the time to argue it. I definitely think they're... If you're pulled over by the police,

it's, especially if it's a case that doesn't seem to start at 10, I think, and it's so easy for me as a white guy to say this, but you definitely don't wanna pick fights where you don't need them. And that's just kind of like, it's just kind of a bit common knowledge, I suppose. But I will say that cops have a lot of power. They have the power of life and death because they have side arms.

And they can use them if they perceive a threat. They have to be held to a high standard. One of those things is you can't escalate situations to those places. Now this woman took her own life sadly, or at least that's what it seems like. We've already gone over the specifics of that case. We've had a lot of cases instances where things have escalated very quickly from zero to 60 in two seconds. And people have died, unarmed people have died.

If people in their own yards have died, things like that. And you also have to understand this foremost in the African-American community's mind whenever they're pulled over. But so getting back to my original point, cops will have a lot of power. With that comes a lot of responsibility to quote, spider man comics, and they, they're needs to be an emphasis on de escalation always. I mean, just like, just you and I work in the door. We also, you know, we set boundaries and we set rules

and that's part of it. You know, please don't smoke there, you can't take a drink out. You know, the only power we really wield is that, well, we'll ask you to leave. Like, or you can't get into the bar. So, ax on this balance of power is you want something which is to get into the bar

and we have the power to not allow that. that so you getting it is contingent upon you following these rules now you and I I can safely say don't ever abuse that power we just don't I don't care. I don't care about power I don't care about wielding power over anyone. You know don't lie about your service dog don't smoke inside power over anyone. You know, don't lie about your service dog, don't smoke inside, don't become a drunk asshole and pick fights. That's kind of it. Other than that, leave me alone. That's my number one rule.

Leave me alone. But you have people that do wheel power because think of any wheel power irrationally and irresponsible because it responsibly. Because think about any job you've ever had. There's always one asshole there always There's always that one guy in the office that everybody can't stand the one guy at the bar or the factory or the warehouse or wherever it is It's like a this fucking guy so annoying now give that person a gun That's that's you're looking in that situation

And some of these people are like that so cops have a responsibility to deescalate, not escalate. In all areas, and it's not too much to ask of them when we give them the power of life and death. It's not too much to ask, it's not too much to expect. So any of these situations, and this one in particular where you see a cop that's escalating, not deescalating, That is problematic to me. They need to be trained better. We do a thing just in bars, good cop, bad cop.

But it also is kind of like a customer service thing. Wherever someone's aggression is targeted, you remove that person from the equation and you bring in another person. That's why servers always go get managers when tables are upset. It shifts the anger and the frustration from said server to the manager, the manager to take the brunt of the abuse

because they don't get tipped. They're salary so they can do that. But they also remove a person from the step so that energy is dissipated because now you're talking to someone else. Same when we do this indoors if somebody has a Greshon over some towards one of our door guys What do we always do we kind of remove them and we bring in the other door guy

We bring in the manager and then they can come and say hey, what's going on? What's the problem? They can be reasonable and rational because the energy is not pointed towards them Am I making sense of my rambly? No, no, that's right. I mean, ideally that's what you'll do. Ideally, that's what you'll have back to. Like, not that we have any power on the door. It's like the least powerful position. Zero. But there are those guys, right?

There are those dormant that are real fucking like... They're pricks. You know, you can tell. They think they fucking own the place. And they're making up rules and just be in ticks and not even smiling or talking and you know it never hurts just to be a little friendly. Again rules have to be followed in this case though there was only him right right and saying he could have

got back up yeah that's it but there's just not the resources for it more than likely. There were things I don't know the particulars of the case well enough to make that determination. Yeah, but I mean at the end of the day for traffic stop with a signal, even if he has to arrest someone. I mean, probably after the arrest, he probably did call in some more people, but not to ring the whole thing. Well, you can just leave her in the car. I mean, how many times do you see a guy on the sidewalk and there's six cop cars and eight do's, officers out there just twiddling their thumbs for the most part. I've seen that.

And maybe that's just a Southern California thing. We see it all the fucking time. You know, it may have ended. I don't know exactly how it could have been. It ended up that went down. But one thing seemed clear, right? So the cigarette question after talking to my cop buddy, I'm like, okay. Yes, please. They kind of well, they kind of really

Were focusing on that in the cases like that's the thing that was like led to the rest or at least started it all and You know, Malcolm was saying look it's one of those things where she was probably stressed She was doing it to reduce the stress He should have noticed it blow up life, that might be a stretch, right? All he saw was that something was going down that he didn't want in that situation, whether there's a particular law for it or not,

I don't know, I'm siding a little bit on the side of like, just maybe do what they're asking, but the way he lost me in This whole thing is that he didn't slow it down and that was a big point the Malcolm made Which I really think was his strongest argument. Though honestly Joe and Malcolm were like very I have to say it They were very like anti-cop with this whole response and saying kind of broadly about cops doing this all the time and blow it. But at the end of the day, they're pulling over a fuck ton of people to think that they're just escalating everything all day.

Just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, they don't want to have this constantly, you know, they're not trying to make their job potentially more dangerous than it needs to be. Right. So there are examples, but the slowing it down is what was missing. He didn't give everyone space and time. You just be like, okay, let's just, you know, get a hold of this. And by no means am I saying I would have done a better job.

I am not trained for anything like that. But it just never hurts when shit's getting tense to like create the space. And since he was like you said in that position of power, it would, you know, he had the opportunity to do it. He could have controlled it to that point. I've just been like, okay, this is getting a bit out of control. Why don't you just finish your cigarette, you know,

because you're not listening to me anyway. And just take a step back, give a five minutes, like, what did he need to go to anyway? Like, he spent time arresting, huh? That was most of the rest of his day. So that stuff will always dissipate. It has to. It has nowhere. I mean, people will exhaust themselves, unless they're manic or something like that. And that's a whole other issue, but eventually it's going to it's going to simmer down It will it's just mean because I mean shit if you think about it most anger is irrational Most because what's the first thing people say when people are starting to lose their temper I was like hey calm down calm down. Of course, which never fucking works because no anger doesn't feel like yeah

No, no anger isn't doesn't feel like it's the what should be our natural state you know what I mean yeah but there that anger will go off into the ether somewhere and eventually said person will calm down you come back to reason at that point point adrenaline's just firing, you're fired up, it'll calm down. You got to give them the space. Yeah, it could have ended very differently. They could have been varied, very well with the outcops. Right. So, so this whole thing of like, yeah, they may need more training. And this is probably a good example of like how not to go into something like this.

Of course, but there's lessons on both sides, I think. It wasn't just as cut as dry, cut and dry as like, he fucked up, he was all wrong and this led to this awful thing. I mean, it was a lot of that. But at the same time. I mean, yeah, everybody has some responsibility, but he has all the power and she has none.

It's true. He gets to decide which way this things go. He gets to decide how he reacts because he knows, I mean, they know what to expect when they pull people over. A lot of people are going to be upset. I mean, it's reasonable to be upset. You have to understand like things like that. It's different when we have a line at the bar.

People are like, oh, but my friends are in sign. It's like, you know, you get in in five minutes. I'm not giving you, you're not getting a hundred dollar ticket for speeding. It's like, you're just, you're just waiting five minutes to get into a fucking bar until a couple of people get out. So the fire marshal fire Marshall doesn't come shut us down because we're over capacity. It's really not that big a deal People get upset for for less of things so yeah, of course less or things So you kind of get that they're gonna be upset and that should be part of the understanding But he gets to decide how we react to that if she wants to, even if he feels like he's being disrespected, I'm sorry.

Unfortunately, being disrespected is that it's not a, you don't get to demand that it's not against the law to be disrespected. Unfortunately, and that's something you have to live with that's part of the job in the same way that doctors have to live It possibly getting pricked by syringes and things like that. You assume that risk So when you're done I think I think you have to put in you no if you're if you're doing something like that You're antagonizing the situation like yeah, you're annoying you are But they but they don't have power to the, to the situation. The person being pulled or has no power.

They are at the mercy of said person pulling them over. Which you have, you can't just do what you want. Like they got a follow. Well, look, you can't have your radio up because that's going to get in the way of being able to hear. Like he has some procedures that he has to go through and that could be a major distraction. I don't think that that's super unreasonable The way he asked the way went about it Maybe he could have done that in a different way

It obviously was like increasing the tension. It would have been better if he had done it by reducing it But I don't think that it's unreasonable like he's already right next to the window You know you're blowing smoke out of there. Like, there's a portion of it that's just like, this is this dude's job as well. And believe me, I'm not trying to stick up for him all the way. I'm just trying to find the points in it where it's like, okay, what can anyone learn from this?

What can we get from it? And we're just gonna say, you can't tell me to put that cigarette out. Well, good fucking luck. I wouldn't recommend that at all. Like, that's, that's, that's not my takeaway. That's not my. Right. Let me ask you this. What do you think about their conversation when it came to using the precincts as like revenue streams for the city? You know, you all heard of this, like, it's the end of the month. They've got their quota. The quota. Yeah. They've got to get so many in. So you get like these kind

of bullshit tickets going down and blah, blah, blah. You know, that's a, look, it kind of makes sense that precincts would do that. Like should they and, and I don't know, I bet you can pretty much count on a certain amount of tickets. And like anything, once money is coming in, it becomes a revenue stream that's like a staple. And does it mean that bogus tickets are getting set up? I mean, it's definitely- Possibly.

Possibly, right? But it's a different situation. It's that happening than just a police officer over reacting because it really has nothing to do with that. Somebody could have a quota and speak very respectfully to a lot of people that ordinarily he would let slide for a taillight or a turn signal not going on. But then he's like well you know I got to get some of these people. Otherwise, everyone's going to fucking have no tell lights and not, you know, well, yeah.

I mean, there's, there's two, I mean, there's definitely a thought that, um, the quotas are sped up are, are set statistically. Statistically, they expect this number of infractions per month. Therefore, if you're doing your job effectively, you should have said quota of tickets because statistically it says that's the number of people you should be catching. So that's one school thought about it. But I definitely, I load the idea that finding citizens for these infractions is a way to make money for the state, county, district, whatever you call it. Hell, I even thought, and this was a passing thought, this was not a serious thought, like putting a, like trying to get a petition

for a proposition that would disallow any money made off of traffic tickets or speeding tickets, anything like that to actually go to like state coffers or anything that they would have to be like donated to charity or something like that. Because I would be like, that'd be that'd be the perfect way to ensure that there's no ill intent there. It was like, they don't get, you don't get the money. You don't get the money from the fines. They're gonna go elsewhere.

It's gonna go to charities. They're gonna go to kids with fucking, you know, lupus or something. But you don't get to decide. What's a nice idea? Yeah, but who knows if that then means every pre-stink has now two less police cars and and five less police officers. Well, they should get that hold on. I got a minute. But that should be that should be allocated through through budgeting in the city. Like it should they it should be allocating it should be allocated based on tax revenue. I got you. I got you. Yeah. Now moving on to

the second half of their thing and we just finish up this one with that. They jumped into the Bernie Maddoch thing, right? And the Ponzi scheme. Now I didn't know a lot about this. Bernie made off. Bernie made off. Sorry, that's time. Yeah, my God. Yeah, made off. So, so I mean, everyone's heard of it. Everyone has heard the word Ponzi scheme and, and, you know, has some idea of what went down. But it was amazing to me when he was talking about it. How there were, I mean, the majority of the large investors that he had, and bear in mind this guy

wasn't making any trades at all, as far as they were saying. And these were smart, wealthy people. That, you know, and I don't want to take anything away from how much of a sociopath he was because he definitely was. But my God, he did tap into some greed, some real greed of people in a sense. And you know, the fact that they just weren't checking in on this stuff, they just believe that these huge returns were like, Yeah, okay.

Seems reasonable to me. I mean, that's how hedge fund managing works. They just take your money and they're responsible for it. I mean, you know, you don't look, you don't see, they do all the trades, you basically entrust them with it. Yeah, I just would have thought that, you know, if you're a multi-millionaire and then, you know, you're doing your taxes, you've probably got like a whole group of tax attorneys helping you out with that because, you know, they're saving you so much money and trying to find these loopholes or whatever they do. You would have just thought over the years that somebody would have just been like, yeah,

let's just analyze these investments real quick. I mean, not knowing anything about it. Somebody did eventually. Well, but it from what they were saying, it seemed like it was because of the crash in 2008, financial crash, people started to try and pull their money out too quick. And that's when he couldn't get all that money together to start giving him back. But they were saying straight up, it may have continued today if that hadn't happened. Sure. Because nobody had like put this shit together and he'd done it for decades. That to me is unbelievable that there was such a gap of knowledge in the system and

to say who the fuck else is doing it? To believe that he could be the only one, maybe people are doing it on a much smaller basis and actually make a few trades and then, damn. I mean, is there any hope for like, do they have systems in place now that can fucking catch these dudes? That's a good question.

And I don't know enough about that. To speak intelligently on it. I don't know what the systems are in place and stuff. I will say that Wall Street gets away with a hell of a lot of shit. I think that through it his son killed himself, right? Yeah, I believe so. Bernie went to jail and has no remorse from the snippets of the conversation that I was hearing. And then also, I guess there was this other investor that had billions and had to give like half of it back. And I think he ended up face down in his pool.

And there was like, I was googling something about that. Like, it was a little suspicious, but it was one of those, you know? And the interesting thing about that one is he was only required I think to give back like half of his like seven billion and I'm like, what are you saying? You couldn't live on three and a half billion Good lord I could live on one billion oh Could you like easy easy? I know it sounds kind of crazy,

but I bet I could do it. Yeah. Well, I guess that's just another example of the greed. That's like, you know, you lose, you go from so much of it. Maybe it was more reputation at that point. Maybe he was like, my reputation is so destroyed. That's true. In my entire social networks,

gonna just completely dis me and I'm just gonna just trust him again. Just trust him again. Yeah, maybe it was more of that, but scary stuff, really. It is. I would like, there's gotta be some documentaries about that guy. I gotta check that out. Oh, I'm sure there are.

You know what I do with a billion dollars? If I had like had a billion dollars? What? I'd become Batman. Batman. Because that's how much it costs to be Batman apparently. It's like a billion dollars. And probably how long the how far do you think you get before you just end up killing yourself with one of your all day day and a half? One of those three. Not two days, not two days. Like maybe a Saturday and a Sunday,

unlike a holiday weekend where there's not a lot going on. Yeah, you'd be too eager to test out the jet pack that they just made and they're like, we really need to test this a bit more. You like, listen bro, I've been drinking. I'm ready to do this. Exactly. Dead.

Oh, over. Like, so idiot, with a billion dollars died, dressed as Batman this week. Oh Fuck that was mark. Yeah, I'd laugh. I'd laugh you would all right next up. We got pull Stamets Podcast 1385 pull is a great guy super chill always has amazing stories. He is The studies mushrooms. There's probably a word for it. Fungiologist. I don't know.

Mushroomologist. Mushology. Yeah, it's a... Mushology. Yeah. But he... His conversation with Joe was really fascinated because obviously he loves mushrooms. He has a mushroom hat.

I guess you can make clothes and mushrooms though he said they're really flammable so he was not selling me on that. And yeah so you got to be very careful because it's like a fuse. I'm like oh Jesus okay. Good to know. Yeah what's cool is he got into talking about mainly different types of mushrooms that you can trip on and like you did a lot of research on different ones and which ones are legal, which ones are not different effects here and there. But then he jumped on to something that I found really interesting.

And there's a new app that he was talking about called microdose.me. And you can download it for Android and Apple and I downloaded it. And it's just a thing, of course it did. And you can start microdosing and logging the results Into this app and it's going to be collected by these people that can study it

You know statisticians and whatever else and it's almost like a workaround for the fact that it's like a schedule one drug The no one can do any research on and it's like a bit one drug that no one can do any research on. And it's like a bit of research on the side in the sense of, you know, they're not gonna go around and see who has this app. And then assume that the information you're putting in is correct, and then show up at your house and arrest you for microdosing.

Like, you're gonna, you'll be okay. Like, there's not the resources for that. But, again, he talks a lot about like lion's mane, for example, which is not a psychoactive mushroom, but it's very good for your health for a lot of reasons. A lot of mushrooms are like neutropics for your brain, and in combination with microdosing, it has the effect to make you very creative. You know, it has the effect to make you very creative. Sure. Absolutely.

Makes perfect sense. Yeah, and I just thought that's, it's gonna be so fascinating to like actually get some real research because in a sense, like marijuana now legal in a lot of places in California, yes, it's more and more everywhere and they make you money from it.

And you know, people aren't dying. We're learning that it's okay. The next generation is going to see it as like, it's fine. You know, some other bit of joint, as long as you're not drinking all day, you know, it's healthier for you. But we're in the real early stages of anything like that

for, for, uh, shrooms. Like, I think it was like, was it Colorado or Oregon with like putting it on the ballot to vote for decriminalization of psilocybin? One of those two states. Sounds like something Oregon would do. Yeah. Oh, definitely Colorado. But there's no, um, there's no, uh, I mean, there have been some studies done. There seems to be absolutely no evidence that it is detrimental to your health in any way. Yeah, and I don't think you're gonna OD on it too. Other than like going to the center of the universe. Yeah, trip and balls.

Trip and major balls. How do he die? He met God. Mushrooms. But it will be fascinating to know like what kind of advantages can happen. Can you take someone that's not a very creative person, right? Start micro-dosing them, so very, very small amounts of psilocybin.

It doesn't affect them. They can barely feel it, if at all. And the things are actually changing within them, with their behavior, their energy, their creative output. It's going to be fascinating to kind of see how this progresses, right? It's what I'm saying. With a friend, not us, but with somebody that doesn't know.

Oh, we don't tell them. We just don't know. Who's the most dull person we know? And we'll just start micro-dosing them and see if they get more interesting. The least creative person we know. You're 100% oh boy, such a group of usual suspects to choose from. Well, they were saying that psilocybin for one is when people have taken kind of large doses

of it, right, you get some interesting effects with addiction. Is it actually helps break addiction? There's been some studies done with that. And I even for people quitting smoking. Which I think is beautiful because some people really struggle with that. I mean, my mother smoked forever. She has quit now but God, it got her to like, she was 60 years old before she can do it and my other uncle still doing it. And I think he has a like lung disease. And you got to ask yourself, you know, you hear that and you think, well, what an idiot. Like stop. But it really has a hook on people. And if there's a chance that people can use that and kind

of step away from it, to not explore it, you know, knowing that it doesn't cause any physical harm or like long term effects. It's That it's just it's a shame. It's it's just kind of crushing to the medical community. It's kind of embarrassing too It's like I know dude. We we have this. There's the potential at least look at it at least check it out and study it I mean if only if the only way you can get a hold of it legally is to go to a clinic because of a major addiction, and then they put you through a thing and you trip balls and then, wow, we've cured like 40% of these people to not have that just seems it's so much more expensive. It seems ridiculous, doesn't it? I know, man, It seems absurd. How many things do we turn a blind eye to or say no to because it has the word drug attached to it?

It's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, but I mean, all the pharmaceuticals, you know, is it one of those questions where it's like, well, pharmaceutical companies aren't going to be interested because they're not going to be able to patent it. And of course, the millions of dollars because it just grows naturally and boom there it is. Certainly has to be a consideration. Right. It's got to be right.

It's, yeah, it definitely has to be. One of the big shifts that I liked him talking about, Paul talked about how in about 2008 he did a TED talk or went to TED TEDx and was kind of just perceived as a bit of a whack job and a bit of a... You know, it's like, oh, look at this guy with his mushrooms and wanting to talk about tripping all the time. But then he went back later, many years later, I think like 2016 or 2018, I don't know, you know, about 10 years later. And the reception was completely different.

It's all about like high level people coming up to him and being like, I've microdose, this has helped me, I've done x, y, and c, like there's just a shift in the understanding and consciousness, and that's a small amount of time. That's very positive stuff. Sure. Oh, it's amazing how much the world can change

in just 10 years. Right. Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. It's nice. Well, I mean, you think. You know, I mean, kids start growing up with this stuff and they start questioning all the, you know, the tight-assness of what's happening around them.

And they're like, you guys just need to cool out and try some more shit and There you go all sudden it's accepted. I mean drugs gay marriage. I mean you I mean anything you give it enough time things are gonna be accepted Yeah, you know there's pushback and something's reversed, but it but overall it's like when it really does come down to something That's like it's not hurting anybody. It's hard to keep that Illegal completely that's what it seems like and that's a very positive thing about the way that our government and laws work It is you hope, you know, it really seems to it's a good Resources to check out for him you go to fungi.com and he has something called hostdefense.com and him, you can go to fungi.com and then he has something called hostdefense.com. And through those sites, you can look up a bunch of, he has like a supplement line kind

of, you know, for like nitpropics that I've heard a lot of good things about helping your brain and thinking. And then also that he talked a lot about how lines mean that that fungi is connected to I believe he was saying like it stays off dementia which is very promising because that's fucking brutal. Oh that's amazing yeah there's a lot that they can do with shit like that that this should be researched that's for damn sure. Yeah well it's good that people are out there like him because then we can just skip having to wait for it and just be like let him do a bit of the research. We'll do it ourselves. I'll take it. It's not going to hurt me. See if there's any good effects. Yeah. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. All right. All right. Let's do it. Next up. Let's do it. I have a great idea. Yeah, yeah.

All right, let's encourage it. Next up, let's do it. We have Matt Taibi, 1386. Matt is Rolling Stones journalist. I believe he has Hunter S. Thompson's old job from what he said, which is fucking cool is shit. Kind of makes sense. Which means he must be a badass.

Like that's all you need to know about someone. He's gonna be a creative badass because they would never just plunk any, that's such a, I mean, that is the job in journalism, right? Yeah, he's a smart, irreverent fucking dude. It makes sense that he has Hunter S Thompson's old job. Makes perfect sense. He jumps into the Epstein murder, right? All suicide, a legit murder, whatever. So, a legit suicide. Really Joe brought it up because it's on Joe's mind. But now, we are getting a lot more information about this. And I remember when it first happened, and you know me, I jumped on the conspiracy and you were like, oh, dude, that's what everyone thinks. But yeah, and that is true That's reasonable. It's like everyone wants to jump on that

But this one is really opening up. They just arrested the guards and gods. Yeah Fuck this is exciting It's on the plot thickens as it was And Prince Edward Yeah, Charles's brother who like, he was like friends with Epstein. Where's it, is it Prince Andrew? It's Prince Andrew, isn't it? Oh, fuck, I should know that in English, Andrew.

Yeah, fucking blind me. Yeah, yeah, Prince Andrew. So he shows him much I care about them. But, you know, they've always been shielded forever. Sure, right, They really have like stories do not make it to press if it's negative about them because they're worried they won't get an interview with, with William and fucking his wife and.

Right. Of course they will take it. So, so to have it to where now he said he's gone, he did that interview on television. I don't know if you saw any of that, but it was all good as fuck. And he was like blinking loads and quite honestly looking guilty Is all hell Yeah, and like just straight up denying I have no memory of this person, but there's a ton of pictures of them together This young girl that was like basically sex trafficked by Epstein and now he's gone to the queen because I guess

That's how you do it. You got to ask her permission and said look I'm gonna pull away from my from my royal duties because this whole Controversy is like getting in the way, you know, and I've never heard of anything like that This that season of the crown is gonna be my favorite That season of the crown is gonna be my favorite. Do you know what I mean? Oh, that'd be interesting to see what they do on that. Oh my god. It's fascinating because it's like, obviously look, something we had happened and there

is some shit like, people's, this was gonna be a massive case. Like the biggest case you could imagine and it just kind of dropped because then he died. Right. And people are saying this looks funky, and they're like, no, no, no, we checked it, it's all good. But it's just so out of place. It's there struggling to keep it together. And I really am fascinated. I know people are getting bored of all those fucking memes

of Epstein though, a lot of them are pretty hilarious. Sure. Some stuff's gonna open up about this. And if there's anything that we should exhaustively look into, it's fucked up shit with sex trafficking of miners. They're like killing me. A billion percent?

A hundred billion percent without a doubt. Yeah. Has your take on this change a little bit then? Or are you still very suspicious? Are you like nah, kill themselves? I'm always, I'm just always suspicion of suspicious of conspiracy theories to begin with because I think it's just what people feel based on nothing else. And I'm always just like, yeah, but you know, one person feels one way, another person feels another way. So one of you is fucking wrong. So like your feelings don't mean anything to me. I'm always about, but the same time circumstances

are important, but it was as plausible to me that he would kill himself as it would be that he would be murdered. He wasn't implausible that he would kill himself to me. It wasn't that he's not like that. Yeah, this wasn't a guy with everything to live for that was probably gonna get out and have a great life. He was fucking ruined. He was gonna be in jail forever, this billionaire that lived his entire life,

free of any restrictions aside from the laws of physics. That was it. The dude literally could do anything he wanted on Earth. If he wanted to fuck a tiger, he could fuck a tiger. Like, the shit that he would have been able to do with the amount of money he had. So to basically, in one fell swoop, take every bit of that away. It was not out of the realm of possibility

to think that he killed himself. It was reasonable. Yeah. I agree. I agree, but God, you know, you just knew as soon as you heard it, and the people that had been around and the people that went to his island, that it wasn't like, oh, he was gonna go to jail,

and it was just him. He had some totally keep- No, totally keep- He had some other fuckers with him. But life is also isn't like a mission impossible movie, so for me, I was also like, I don't know, I mean, to get, I mean, it's not inconceivable that guards could be paid half a million dollars

to look the other way while somebody jacks them inside or something like that. But I don't see a Colombiana mission impossible type scenario or somebody like sneaks into a cell, kills them and sneaks out or anything like that. And I think a lot of people see way too many movies and think way too many things are possible whether or not. But I'm definitely interested to see how this unfolds.

And if there's definitely, and if there's evidence that he was murdered, I'm not gonna sit here and go, no, no, he committed suicide. I'd be like, yeah, it looks like he was fucking murdered, which is also plausible to me. That's, so that's kind of, that's how I approach it. I'm definitely, it's not even so much for me like whether he did it or not

Okay, it does it even matter. Yeah, it does a bit like you can't have murderers out there But the real question is like they were saying that as a trader so he was like a trader too Sure, but he never made any trades that people know about or like really any Staggill ones and he was interviewed by a guy that knows a ton about this, the sort of work that he was doing, spoke to him and was like that fucking dude doesn't know what he's talking about. He does not know and I wish I remember the guy's name but that to me is kind of fascinating and he was also given a 70 million dollar

New York apartment by the owner of Victoria's Secret. So it's like, hold on. Did he get his money by just like either just blackmailing people after they came to the island or is like some sort of like, bothering system, like people just pay for him to like, house this whole stuff. That's all the kind of information I want to get to the bottom of. It's like that to me is really fascinating and Fuck him start arresting them all. Oh, how many fucking billionaires can you arrest? Like you said they can do anything they want and they're gonna find a way to like Try and squash this shit. So I'm glad this this story has some legs. I really am I am two man

And I'd love to see everyone that was ever even thought about touching a kid in that way and that fucking island. I'd like to see them burned at the goddamn stake to be perfectly honest. On the political front, right? Because obviously we know Matt is deep in that. He talked a lot about how the race, like the political race, wasn't, they didn't really, the press didn't really show the polls correctly coming up to

the election. Like, they were getting a lot more information that Trump was doing a lot better. And if he was saying that basically the narrative was, don't show it because it will depress people, just show that Hillary is doing better than she is. That logic doesn't make any sense to me at all. Wouldn't it be better just to panic people and get them to the, you know, maybe someone's like being lazy and like, totally.

She's gonna win it anyway, I'm not gonna go vote. Totally. Well, if you go to 538.com, the State Silver's, Nate Silver's website. He does a lot of poll aggregation. He's kind of like rotten tomatoes for polls. He talked about it a lot. He talked about a lot. Was he accurate? Yeah, actually. He talked about it. Actually, the polls were within the margin of error. Like Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin by total of

77,000 votes. That's less than 1% and he was within the margin of error in all three states. So usually the margin of error is 3 to 4 points and a lot of those states showed Hillary up about 3 to 4 points, which is the margin of error. And Trump ended up winning by less than one point. So those polls were actually fairly accurate. So I'm not sure exactly what he's talking about, but I mean, they were accurate. I mean, the projections were off. Everybody projected Hillary to win. They projected to win in a pretty big fashion it be perfectly honest

And I think a lot of people are on the polls projections and it like no polls are no polls are just polls are metrics so You have let's say West constant shows Hillary up three But then so you take that you take that poll combined it with other polls Combined it with other polls from other states you get your national polls, and then they place odds on, predict or percentage of, what am I trying to say? They place odds on her likely victory. And so a lot of people were saying,

based on all this, she was the most likely victor by like 77% or something like that. I think those were a little skewed. But it is disconcerting though, when you hear things like this from such a respected reporter, because it kind of feeds that narrative of like the fake news. It's like, well, who the fuck are we supposed to listen to now? And it only supports it and it allows politicians to just be like, it's fake news, bullshit, don't listen at all.

Right. And that builds steam. Like, it's easy to be like, yeah, we're not gonna listen to them. And also maybe not politicians. Absolutely. First of all, what the hell are we listening to? We're just listening to like Trump tweets? Yeah.

Well, I think most people don't, I think most people don't trust the news anyway. I think there's a lot of people that find it that they either don't trust the news anyway. I think there's a lot of people that find it, that they either don't trust the news or they have no faith because of the bullshit they cover anyway or because of the angles or the spin that they put on things. I mean, because you have one side, you have one site or one news organization dedicated

to the right, you have one dedicated to the left. You have CNN that is probably more in the middle, but there's still but I mean It's be real every damn anchor they have on there is a Democrat So it's gonna be very hard for conservatives to take them seriously because they're gonna think they're slanted They're serious newsmen and I really do think a lot of them do try to be as unbiased as humanly possible I really do or as MSNBC, they are unabashedly liberal, and they make no bones about it. And the same is true for Fox News,

but it's gonna be very difficult for, say, Republicans to take C and then seriously, because they are clearly liberal. They are clearly different. Well, Fox News is the other end of the spectrum, right? Absolutely, and that's why you keep including it No, there's no liberal that will go to Fox News and take them seriously. It's just not gonna happen Yeah

You have a lot of that one, you know, I mean shit people are it's not uncommon now for people to turn the fucking Rogan for the news And that's that's a crazy thing. I mean one time I was up watching him do some stand up at a stand up on the spot and somebody did bring up podcasts to him, which is kind of a lazy category because he's like, fuck sake, I'm trying to comedy up here. But he's respectful and he answered it. And he said something really interesting in that show because obviously he's just free-flowing and he's trying to find a joke out of something.

And before he got there, he talked a little bit about how fucking crazy it is that he's the guy that people will turn to for some of this information. He's like the fear factor guy is you know the guy that used to make somebody eat like a fucking donkey's dick is the guy that you're turning to and what I liked about the way he said it even though it was very funny is that he's like I want a guy to turn to. Right, and I, you know, who's my guy? And then the, he turns to all of him,

and that's funny as hell to me. I'm like, he's an idiot. He's an information aggregator, but you know what, he represents, I think more people feel like he represents how they feel than any elected official on either side period that because they're in their suits there They've got their props. They've got their righteous indignation and

You know, but but they're rich as fuck and it's easy for them to they talk and They talk about bullshit and theoretical and stuff and Joe was kind of he's been in the mud and he's a regular dude that likes regular things and he's on and he Leans towards the hobbies of both sides left and right and things like that and I think a lot of people see themselves in them and he is whether He'll admit it or not. He's an intelligent guy that is always seeking answers and he listens to intelligent arguments. I mean, and he has, and he's very common sense. Like you and I will talk.

We have very simple answer, like questions too, which is really nice. He doesn't try and get, he's just like, well, why is this? Well, how do you know that? Like you and I were talking about him with Ben Shapiro and how he's like, you won't go to a gay wedding, will you go to a party that serves shrimp?

Like where do you draw the line? That's a great fucking question. It's pointing out hypocrisy. Right then and there, you don't have to get esoteric or wacky about it. You don't have to be strange or self-righteous or classist. You're just like, it's flat on the table.

Answer this. You can't. You're a fucking hypocrite type of thing. What do you think about, remember? I don't know if I told you, but a while back. And I think we talked about this, but there was a petition online for Joe to host. To host a debate.

Yeah, and obviously he's got no interest in it. But imagine this, right? Think how big it is, show us., right? Think I'll begin his show, like it's bigger than any late night show, for sure. So there would be a three hour long audience. So now it's not something you have to put on television to where you cut up with commercials and everyone only gets 30 seconds.

Imagine if it was just like a round table with Joe and everyone running for office, and he's just throwing these question out I mean they've got three hours to think that it won't have millions and millions of people watch that shit Totally for the entire amount of time you'd be out of your mind So if it's a numbers game if it was like well, we want to make money with the debates and want to put the commercials in Look, there's money there. Like, there would be plenty of money to be made. And what a fucking fascinating conversation that because no one could get away with bullshit.

No, I'm in, I'm all in if Joe is allowed to be the one that argues with the candidate. I don't want to see the two candidates like because they'll go back into the political speak and type thing. I want Joe to wrestle. I don't want to see the two candidates like because they'll go back into the political speak and Type thing. I want Joe to wrestle. So if Bernie says something, you know, I want Joe to be able to wrestle with How do you pay for it blah blah blah blah? Those questions and when Trump says something like how can you talk about Immense Grints that way your mom was an immigrant like blah blah blah blah. Yeah, your wife is all your wives were Like how can you you know how can you demonize that I'd like to see him go at it I'd like it's because it sounds like something that

couldn't be possible but we're living in weird times man and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility at all I would love to see candidates be brave enough to attempt it. And then the beautiful thing about this is when we've said it before, Trump got into power by doing what he did. And it's going to train other people that are running. They're going to model this. They're knows who that will put in office right? No, and I'm not saying anything good or bad either way about Trump, but it's that particular way of doing it is a very effective strategy and it doesn't really open you up to good

dialogue. That I think everyone can agree on. And but then if they're the road to your success becomes this long sit down long form conversation calm and Talking where where we're gonna really see if you know what the fuck you're talking about if you're on your shit And if you're like a decent person And then suddenly that's the road all that that changes things now people are like oh, I've got a train for this This is the type of person I have to be to become president. And that's those are the types of attributes you would want. You know, if you get somebody that can sit down and calmly talk with you for three hours,

this is why when those politicians go on and even burning, let's be fair, you did a great job. I bet you picked up a lot of followers, you know, just from being able to calmly like talk through these issues and not sound like a wacko I thought he was way more wacky than he turned out to be there was just Exactly I perceived it but I was like, oh this fucking dude actually Perception is everything man Perception is everything in politics Super reasonable

Plus he just don't get enough time, you don't get enough time No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,. You don't get enough time. No, no. You have to have that perception. You got 30 seconds. You got one speech, and no one can argue back on. Yep. Who knows, man? I don't think it will be impossible in the next 10, 20 years. I don't know how much longer Joe has doing the podcast.

I'm going to say 20 years. He's going to do it till he's 70. He's going to get some good stem cells in him. Keep him looking young. He's going to, good stem cells in him. Keep him looking young. He's gonna, he's already pumping himself full of those things. So yeah, that could be, that wouldn't be a bad way of doing it. It definitely would be better than this stupid debate so they put on for sure. Yeah. I think who knows. As always, I'd love to see that type of form. That's for sure. That would be great. That would be great. Anyway, Matt, you're genius. We love having you on.

You know, thank God reporters are out there doing this stuff, you know. Exactly. Trying to not just click baity shit, but like real stories. They're the last of the lot. And man, it's a shame. Anyway, that's it's a shame. Anyway, that's it for us today. Thank you, as always, Mark, for everybody listening. And I really should put these announcements

to the beginning, but I keep forgetting. Email us with any suggestions, comments, questions, Joe Rogan experience, review at gmail.com. I love hearing from you guys. I get back to most people. So anything you have to say, we'd like to hear it. And also, follow us on Instagram, the same handle. Si necesitas un taller de garantía para tu coche, Motrio te ofrece un mantenimiento multimarca sin sorpresas con mecánicos expertos altamente cualificados y formados. Descubre Motrio, tu taller para todo lo que necesitas.

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