Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - A Joe Rogan Experience Review 189

Episode Date: November 30, 2019

This week we analyze podcast 1388 Louie Psihoyos and 1389 with Chris Kresser Louie makes documentaries and was the creator of the very emotional "Cove" movie. It was a huge eye opener to the horrible treatment of dolphins. Chris is back on with Rogan to discuss the new Vegan documentary called “game changers”. There were lots of bold claims in the movie and our discussing is what can be taken away from it all. Check out his link: https://chriskresser.com/debunking-the-game-changers-joe-rogan/ Check him out: https://www.rollingstone.com/results/#?q=matt%20taibbi Enjoy folks! Follow me on Instagram at www.instagram.com/joeroganexperiencereview Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6ilK4Zrqk2ZeowbOo7pXgw? Please email us here with any suggestions and questions for future shows..

Bro, ¿me das un sorvito de tu lata de refresco? Que lata, bro, si este es una lámpara. Que sí, bro, que una lata de refresco en el contenedor amarillo puede ser un montón de cosas. Ok, entonces ¿qué? ¿me das un sorvito de tu lámpara? Recicla tu lata de refresco en el contenedor amarillo y participa en la economía circular. Reduce, reutiliza, recicla, eco-embes. You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little

nuggets treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. Enjoy the show. Five, four, three, 2, 1. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host, Adam Thorn, and Mark Hampton.

This is my either-be-the-worst podcast with the best one of all time. What's up guys? Welcome to the JRE Review Podcast. I'm Mark Hampton one of your hosts joined as always by Adam Thorn our taskmaster what's going on Adam? Namaj buddy thanks for joining us folks today we've got a couple of good ones that one is a well they're both based on documentaries. We've got podcast 13, 88 with Louis Sochoyus

who made the cove a very sad movie about Dolphins that got killed that we all watched what five, 10 years ago how old is this dog? Yeah. I went in thinking it was a Pixar film, so I was like, what the hell is wrong with this? Yeah, I think it was like sad. Is this a has gone dark?

When, when do the dolphins rise up and find their friend and kill the, kill the poachers? Absolutely no happy ending in that one. Next up, we've got 1389 Chris Cresser, who has been on the pod before with, with Joe. I, I like the way that he kind of brings in his research and his science and here be breaking down the game changes Documentary the new vegan documentary that it's getting a lot of buzz that Cameron James Cameron made James Cameron right away gone from shitty terminated movies to whoa Maybe there propaganda hey there last the last the last terminated was garbage. Did you watch that?

I like the first two terminators and the rest are all great. I did you see the most recent one? Did you watch it? Yeah, I watch half of it and then I oh? Yeah, I lost I just couldn't I couldn't stay with it it's too upsetting the first two was so good it hurts my soul to keep watching him now they're goddamn like classics I know I know yeah let it die guys let it die yeah I don't blame him Arnold take your money we love you. We do love you Arnold. But yeah. All right, so Louis Sohoias, right? He had an interesting story and I loved how he got into it because I always wonder how the hell people get into documentaries. Are they always documentarians? Well this guy was not. He was

just a photographer hanging out with a billionaire that used to go on like boat trips diving a lot, saw these dolphins, heard stories that they were getting fucked up, and asked his billionaire friend, hey, will you pay for a documentary for me to make that I don't know how to make, which I thought was awesome. That's amazing. Yeah. And then he bumps into Steven Spielberg on a boat trip somewhere and says, hey, what advice do you have for somebody that wants to make a documentary who's never done

it before? And Steven Spielberg said two things. Don't do it on the ocean and I think don't use animals so right noted thank you i'll do exactly that i'll do exactly that i will ignore steven spielberg what was the best first impressions of that movie obviously it was brutal right it was a little watch but what was your take away from it from way back

did it make any changes or in the way that you think well it's been so long since I've seen that movie I mean I was always a great I've already been a kind of a great fan of marine life anyway since Star Trek 4 the voyage home where they saved the whales spoilers and, and you ruined that one. Sorry guys, sorry guys, for those of you who haven't seen it, it's been out since 1986, so get on. It's the journey, not the destination, you know they're gonna save the whales, it's how they do it. That's the interesting thing Yeah, so Yeah, I mean it was brutal the the the poaching practices things like that, but It'd be perfectly honest

not a surprise Not that now I I was surprised at how I Don't know was it was pretty grues gruesome I mean it was an absolute slaughter I just never really thought about how it would be done I didn't really realize you know I'd never thought about it if somebody said how the people you know cat I just figured it was fishing like anything else just nets they get

them and but when you're seeing the the faces almost I mean the dolphins are cute and you see that face and you see their eyes and you know that they're intelligent and then they just cram them in there and they know what's going on they know that's gonna fucking good day for them no they know it's yeah and still goes out. There's some scientists that want to classify dolphins as non-human persons. They think they're on that level of intelligence same with whales. They think they and I'm should even elephants. They all mourn. They have problem solving skills. They just happen to not have like opposable thumbs and stuff

like that or thumbs at all in any way. But I worked on an interesting documentary of this woman that thinks humans need to stop being so classist about other animals, it's just because they're different doesn't mean we're superior. But then it always comes back to the food chain. It's like who gets to eat what? But nobody needs to eat dolphins. Yeah, well, there's a few reasons. It's not even like you eat them and then you live forever. I mean, that would be more of a conundrum. It would be like, wow, they are pretty smart. And man, are they delicious? I mean, supposedly not even that tasty for the mercury and the way that they get them is as brutal a thing is I

mean it's it just seems beneath us right now it is in the sense of it's a massacre total massacre yeah if we invented a computer right that like that like an algorithm, like a really smart, quantum computing system that could decipher language, and all of a sudden, they can speak, right? Let's say we could do it for many animals, though. Uh-huh. Even cows. Sure. How much do you think that would change things for the average person?

Because now what we're doing is we're like 100% and throw Promorphizing them. It's now like a Disney movie. The animals can chat with us. They can speak. I mean do you shoot there would have to be a massive drop in In meat eating. I think you're I think so I I mean At a certain point when an animal can vocalize, please don't eat me. You're kind of like, ah, shit. It will just like basically chat with you like a child. Right. Well, I mean, I mean, apes, chimpanzees,

have learned sign language. I mean, I mean, one of what Jane Goodall's wonderful, famous apes that she would come in with on the Apes Deathbed, said something like, we're watching, nature is watching you, humanity, something like that. It was very ominous, but it was like, we know what you're doing. Like, we're aware, we can't necessarily communicate in words, but we know what's going on.

There's another very famous Instagram account that my girlfriend got me onto. The speech therapist, I believe she's speech therapist, speech pathologist, something along those lines. She set up a communication device for her dog. It's a series of buttons that have different communications, like outside, hungry, tired, play, things like simple words, the dog is learned to use. And here's the crazy thing, there was a, because they lived by the beach, so there was a beach button. When the beach button broke, the dog went and touched the water and then outside button, water outside. So it had the level of intelligence to understand synonyms, how to communicate, pass that. He's like, okay, beach doesn't work, water outside.

Those are those two things that still communicates what I'm trying to get. I mean, that's an interesting cognitive skill and something I think we might not grant canons that much credit for. So, I mean, even those little steps, I think, we would make, you know, it's definitely showing that animals communicate probably it'll better than we thought they could. And if there was a computer, if there was like a universal translator from you know like Star Trek 4 and

Animals could speak to us. I definitely think it would change it would change the game pretty pretty hard Did you just watch Star Trek full? I've always just watched Star Trek 4. It's one of my favorite movies I watched I said a girlfriend like I'm not gonna do this with dolphins, right? They must have like the button Test cuz I'm wondering they could do anything. They're really intelligent. Well, they can't do sign language Well, they can't because they don't have the ability to Exactly But I bet you could teach them communication somehow type of communication and they would be able to do it

If they like teach him 50 buttons it. Yeah, they like teaching 50 buttons And then put stuff together I've got a sneaky feeling though that they just be pushing that I want fish One all the time even though they could do far more complex things are like listen I really sick of talking to these monkeys So I'm just gonna get as much fish as possible. You better believe it. They'd fool us. They'd be like Idiots think the only word we know is fish. Yeah. That would be, that would be a game change, I think.

But, but anything, once you put like a little helmet on them and they can make words, it would, that would be a lot of hot. You, you'd have to change the way that you think about things. Hopefully they don't get so good at doing that. they can stick it on a carrot and they start talking we're like fuck What do we even eat now? Oh my god? There's even thought that there's um communication on some type of level between plants. Yeah Well, we just have to find a harmony with it. We'd have to be like okay Well, and that's the thing I think you do have to find a harmony with it. We have to be like, okay, let's just think. Well, and that's the thing.

I think you do have to find harmony. I mean, there is, I mean, line doesn't care about the gazelle. Gazelle cries out. The line's like I'm hungry, it's fog. And so there is, but that, there's a balance in nature. It's a natural order of things. That, you know, hunters go after the old and the young the ones that can't survive and reproduce those are the ones that go it actually strengthens that pack

on a genetic level and that species on a genetic level it works towards bettering the ecosystem. So there is a balance to that but yeah I think it would be the problem with us though and why that Cove document you so gross is that there's just so many of us Right, so they haven't they probably haven't always hunted the dolphins exactly this way But as and I'm not sure but as the population and the demand just got so big they're like Jesus, okay, we're fishermen. We need money. We need a lot of these things Let's just get them all over there, you know one or two isn't enough anymore We just got to hurt them in and it's like the factory farming of these animals

Yeah, you know, and it's easy, I think, to sit there and just blame these fishermen, right? Because, but they've probably desensitized the shit out of themselves. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah, no doubt the very first time they saw things similar to this, they thought, whoa, this is pretty fucked up too.

I don't know how you would have. Right. When that's your job Maybe there's no work for miles around you like me It's true. I mean some people got to do it to survive and some people are greedy fucks Can't discount that either Yeah, I think so I mean the fucking ivory traders in Africa, you know the pieces of shit The piece is definitely getting new jobs

Definitely get new jobs. Start a podcast about how you used to be an ivory trader and now you don't want to anymore. It's probably gonna pick up some stuff pretty quick. Go off like gangbusters guarantee. That's it. Come back the other way. One thing that they talked about,

Louie talked about that I thought was fascinating. I never heard this. He talked about the whale sounds, right? So obviously, you know, he cares about all marine life. And after the covers learnt a ton about it, but he said that the whales, how these can communicate, before there were a lot of ships on the ocean, they can communicate almost all the way around the world.

Their sound would travel on this level of sea, right? So it wasn't right at the top or super deep. There's like a portion of it where the temperature allows the sound to just kind of bounce, almost like in a sine wave. And when there were no other motored boats and large tankers that make a lot of noise that kind of fuck up their sound, they could communicate with each other almost endlessly through the ocean. And that's basically like having the internet forever. Yeah I can't even get T-Mobile signal in like a Raj. That's amazing.

But now they can't really do it as well. There's too many boats, so it's fucking them up. Humans, man. Right. Electric boats. That's what we need. It happened. Elon had sold this out for a while. We're gonna have to.

We're gonna run out of gas. It's gonna. We're gonna run out. I mean, we're going to. It's just not an infinite resource. Yeah. But what what an incredible thing that is. Imagine if you could just chat with people from, you know,

other people from wherever and you've always been able to do it. That's such an incredible system. That is an amazing system. I never knew that. All right, they get into the whole C world thing, right? Yep. Have you been to Sea World before? No, I've never been.

You've never been? No, never wanted to. What do you think it's on? Not a Sea World in that whole. Well, they were abusing, they were abusing the animals. You know, I mean, there's definitely a difference between a conservation or a ref, you know, a conservation, or a refugee, they're not refugees, but like a conservation or rehabilitation place where they take animals in

from the wild that were injured or something, and they never got a rescue center. Yeah, a rescue center, that's one thing, but like I've never been a big fan of Zeus, never been a big fan of SeaWorld. I'm like, it's one thing if they couldn't, they can't live outside captivity because they were raised in captivity kind of thing. That's one thing or if they were brought in as a cub and nursed or being the constant veterinary care thing, that's one thing. But

just these animals for show, it's not, it's not how they're supposed to live. And it's simply and purely for our amusement. Ent our amusement entirely and that I just don't hmm just don't love that not a fan yeah not a fan I never I I had a really thought about zoos and that I never really like the idea of the whales and things and on captivity but just because obviously they need so much more room and that's brutal yeah some things like zoos though, I always felt like there was at least for many of the animals. It was probably very beneficial just because from the lack of stress, they're not going to get hunted and they get just food given to them. But it's also so easy to just look at it in a different light and be like, well, it's kind of a prison. But there's also the education factor. I

mean, if you're talking like inner city kids, isn't it beneficial in some way for, you know, kids that would never have the chance to see these animals get to enjoy them and like hopefully kind of fall in love with them and therefore be more inclined to work with conservation. Because I see it. Yeah, there's definitely, I mean, I think that's a definite benefit to that, but I think there are other ways to go about that. Well, I like what you said about the rescue centers. Yeah, really. If they're only in there for a short period of time until they get healthy again, you as long as you continually finding ones that need help and transporting them, you should be able

to keep a pretty stocked inventory yet absolutely imprisoned. Um, Jane Goodall has a wonderful charity called Roots and Shoots and they started in Tanzania and it was an effort to get the local community to become involved in conservation. She was very aware of the idea of this posh British white woman coming into an country and telling them that they're doing everything wrong was probably not the best way to go about it. And they found that involving the culture, the local community into these conservation efforts, and particularly starting when they're very young, going into the elementary schools, or I guess they're called primary schools, or they're really getting the kids involved

and really getting that ingrained in their psyche. So it kind of like goes along what you're talking about. There are those efforts. It was always about being one with nature and harmonizing with nature and also used like these were animals that were being rehabilitated. It was a nature reserve. There's no captivity of any kind. So that kind of goes along with that.

So if you guys are interested, look up roots and shoots. It's Jane Goodall's. It's a good all. Yeah, Jane Goodall's. We'll put a link in there for roots and shoots. It's one of the charities I give to. Very nice. It's good.

They jump to climate change because you really can't talk about one area in the environmental stuff without getting to the largest impact. When it comes to shit in the ocean and the coral reefs and all the rest of it, I mean it's some of the biggest indicators of the temperature changing. Absolutely. And then they connect that to climate change. And one thing they talked about is Louis, his travel all over the world, talked to many different countries. And he's just saying, really, everyone's aware of it. All the other countries for the most part are, and it's again the US, you know, largely.

Were there ones there? Yep. They don't want to look at it. They don't want to see it. And it's funny hearing that, because I remember growing up in England You know, there was really only one voice of that, you know, they obviously it's a country. We all disagree about lots of different things Just like anywhere else, but there were certain things that they was just like This is what's happening. Yeah, that's what the scientific community thinks we understand it

We need to make some changes. It'll take a while. There's always the economic pushback. But it wasn't like the large oil companies were stepping in saying, no, no, this is bullshit. They were just constantly saying, well, we're trying to make changes. We understand it.

We're moving slowly. That was like BP's message. Right. It's interesting because their message here is not the same. They understand that they can pander to this large group of individuals that don't believe in the system. And they knew in the 70s that there was the climate change was beginning. There was a report that was published. It was either 71 or 77. I can't remember. Exxon knew that there were dramatic changes happening

in the ice caps, and there was an internal memo about, like, these things are happening, and this is going to, you know, this is going to affect things in the future, and then, but because they have a vested interest in fossil fuels being consumed, they squashed that, and they put out what, and this author, and I can't remember her name, there's a book called Merchants of Doubt, and it's about hiring lobbyists that simply go around and so doubt amongst the populists, so amongst the masses. Just they introduce skepticism, things like that. With buzzwords and things that don't even make sense, simply to keep the status quo available.

They offer themselves up as the alternative. The other side of the argument, when in actual science isn't really, I mean, when we talk about science, arguments are always, they're tests. It's always, you take a theory or a hypothesis and you test it and you test it. And the results you get back, they're just the results. Somebody doesn't come along and say, well, I disagree with your data.

Like, that's the data, you know what I mean? It's kind of nuts. So the only people that are saying, the only place it's in question is the Court of Public Opinion, but the data is the data. Like we see the earth is warming, we see the temperatures going up, scientists so the idea of temperature is going up. So scientists look at it and they go, okay, what observable data do we have? What do we know scientifically that would cause this rise in temperature?

You exhaust all your options until you comes to the conclusion that and we have a certain parts per million or billion of carbon in the air. We know the more carbon that goes into the air, the more they trap those gases. And then we're able to create an equation that said, once we get to this certain number of carbon parts per million in the air, that is when we start trapping greenhouse gases. I believe it's 350.

It could be wrong. I think we're around 37380 right now. I think 400 is what they say is, it's the tipping point, it's over. Once we get to 400 parts per million, we're done. Like, there's no, we're gonna be in trouble. Oh, we're gonna be in trouble.

Like, I'm, it's a done deal. Like, I don't, I just can't see. You'd have to, I think you'd have to plant something like a forest six times the Amazon rainforest to consume the level of carbon that we have. And you'd have to... They'd probably get down to like some genius like Elon. I always bring it back to him, but he's easy to just choose to absorb some sort of giant.

Yeah, some carbon scrubber. But it's an important distinction, I think, because I'm all for people having different opinions. It's important. You know, and that dialogue is fine, but when you're held up and the rest of the world is like, look, this is happening. Right.

We at least acknowledge it. And they kind of keep that dialogue going in the US, the people that are anti climate change, see it in a way of like, look, not everyone thinks this. Well, of course, everyone in the rest of the world does. That's something that needs to be understood when you're taking this side and then really just ask yourself Why you're picking this point like how how are you getting this information because people stand by it like it's their religion And they is have no science background. They don't even they're not even researching it at all and when you break down where they got it from it's like even researching it at all. And when you break down where they got it from,

it's like, it folks news, or somewhere. It's not even coming from a very good source. I'm like, why are you choosing this as the hill that you die on? It's like that doesn't even make sense to the rest of your ideologies. It seems like a strange one. Right, but with such a weird hill to die on,

because by the way, you will die. Like, well, fuck the earth up so bad and the economic effects. When everybody starts having to move inland, you think we have refugee problems now. Just wait until all Florida wants to move into Alabama and Georgia. Damn. Right. I mean, it's true. And we're so short-sighted.

We're so short-sighted. And we're hanging on to some ideology, some belief that is just ridiculous. And some of it's religious. Some people don't believe that, I mean, people will literally say, God promised he wouldn't flood the earth again. So I'm not worried about rising sea levels.

It's like, well, bitch, the sea levels are rising. So maybe say a prayer and ask for a little clarification. That's a tough one to argue against. Usually if I hear that, I'm like, we need to talk about something else. Yeah, we're done. I don't know. I got another offer. What kind of breaks it down though and is a shame is all the predictions away off. I mean, you even go back to Al Gore's movie that was, I think, in, like, shortly after 2000. He predicted that, like, even by now, things would be much worse. And mainly that's just because of prediction. It's hard to predict, right?

So, look at the weather. They can't even predict what it's going to be next week. Of course not. So, for them to have guessed where it would be just shows that the earth has more buffer systems and better ways of dealing with it but again it's only to a point everything has still raised the temperatures oh absolutely melting you know the ice caps are levels ice caps are melting at precipitous rate they I mean they were there was they were above I believe that there was a report about the South Pole being above freezing in the winter Oh, I heard that yeah, that was crazy. There's how how could it possibly be that warm?

There's just a vacation that soon Absolutely, it'll be let it'll be like back when it was Pangaea Result because they found all tropical fossils because you know, it was Pangaea. It was a little because they found all tropical fossils because you know it was Pangaea. Yeah. Well, you know, the dialogue there is, I think it's slowly slipping out though. I think it is. Well, I mean, you're starting to see when it gets worse, people are going to back off from it because it just is a shame that it's taking as long as it is.

Well, there's almost like everybody decided to just stick up for the tobacco companies or something all of a sudden. Exactly. It's like destroying the deal. Yeah, you saw it in polling in North Carolina after all those hurricanes hit. The belief in climate change went up pretty significantly. Because they're like, we haven't seen shit like this before like I mean every year we break a goddamn weather record It's it's like it's like the home run chase with steroids. It's like every fucking year

We just break a new heat record or a new hurricane record or a new damage record. It's ridiculous Do you think also the belief that God hates them went up to? Oh yeah probably. There was that. There were those sides. They were like, no we just, we're not behaving. We're not behaving. Certainly. I'm sure there's some fire in Brimstone and you can't reach them but you don't need to reach them. You need to reach the ones that won't believe that. Something that stood out the Louis mansion and I I've heard, and we've all heard, is the Mercury in Fish. Right.

Yes. So, the bio magnification, and as far as I understand it, from when I was in college, it's just, it's really like an exponential growth rate. So the smaller marine life, plankton and so forth, eight little bits of whatever they're eating, and they get some mercury in some of these toxins. And things like mercury have a long half life. Louis was saying it's like 90 days. I didn't check it. But as you keep adding it, it's going to stay in your system for a very long time. I mean, to get half of it out, if you've completely stopped is 45 days. So it sounds like, okay, well, it's 45, then it's 22 and a half, then it's basically 11

and done it up, but that's only if you completely stop. So as you move up in the food chain, they eat so many of these krill or plankton and then they're eating something eats the smaller fish and so on. You've got tuna and salmon that a lot of us eat. Right. We love to go get some sushi and eat that. And you hear like eat more fish. Like salmon is healthy.

Like it has the good oils in. Yeah, they have omega-3s. The rates of mercury inside them is really getting to the point. Oh, maybe it always wasn't. I was just completely unaware of it, but it's like you just shouldn't eat these fish almost at all. And I would love to get more understanding on like, is it just straight up that we should just not eat them? Like what are the benefits? Are you, is some of these Omega's worth putting some mercury in your system? Like, well, I feel like that's something that fucking,

you know, the center for disease control, the FDA should tell us more clearly. Right? I agree. I don't know. I mean, they, they, you know, all these things, all these agencies are constantly fighting to steal ban marijuana and I'm like, okay, but can we fucking eat this fish or what?

Right. Can I have my goddamn sushi roll? Can I have my spicy tuna please? And that's a good talking about food and what to eat is really a good transition into the Chris Cresser podcast And Chris Cresser if you look into his background He he's done some good things in the in the world of health. He's like a paleo eta paleo is like Not necessarily low-car, but it's but it's Just the idea of like eating like in the paleolithic times, though it's,

I don't know how accurate they even know that we ate back then, but you know, it's meat, it's vegetables, it's keeping sugars low. It's what we know. Yeah, hormone free. You know, there were no french fries back then, so you're not eating those. Exactly. Yeah. There was no potatoes.

There was no french fries. Yeah, there was no potatoes. There was no french fries. So he came on to talk about the documentary that James Cameron just they called game changes which is now on Netflix and I watched that and It is it is an interesting documentary just the way that they put it together, right? But it's very What's the word Hollywood eyes? Of course, it it just, you know, they want to hit you with shock value. And a lot of the studies that they kind of talked about, they, I think it's important they didn't make it too science heavy because maybe that weighs people down,

they don't want to see all of that. They're just hoping that these people have done their due diligence and it's truthful. Right. But a lot of it came down to, oh, we fed them vegan burritos one day and some of their cholesterol levels went down or they got harder erections. And then the next day we gave them meat burritos and those levels went up again. And it's not a very good way to do science. Yeah, that's a pretty, I mean, that's very anecdotal. By the way, I've never had erection problems while you'd meet it. So there we go. Okay, it's close.

But maybe if you had more bean burritos, it would change. I don't think I'd get laid of a bean burrito. I think I'm too gay. I'm too gay. They didn't add that into the equation they should have. They should. But that's the real question. It's like he's come on and his qualifications aside, I mean, I think he's like an acupuncturist, believes in Eastern medicine. So there's plenty of questions there to like really like even his own background and credibility, but he does seem very thorough with the way that he put his information together. And what I liked is during the podcast, you can go, he, there's, um, it's chriscressor.co slash game changes.

And even on Joe's podcast, the script, he put the link at the bottom. So if you are interested, you can go look up these studies and put it together, which, at the same time, there wasn't, there wasn't an equal and opposite link to all the research in that documentary, which is a little suspicious. I don't like it when they do that. I don't know. Trying to make a scientific point, you're trying to make a point that is saying this can save your life, but you're not necessarily shfacking it up, like not really. No, they're not. Not in a very good way. I mean, that wouldn't be accepted in

in the scientific community. No. Maybe it works for documentaries, maybe that's enough for people. They're like, oh, well, no, but I mean, it is healthy and we do know meets bad, but we're like, hold on. Why? How do we know this? Right. How do you know this? And how can you be sure exactly? They talk a little bit about like in the documentary like how our teeth for the most part are kind of flat all the way around at the back Yeah, which is indicative of like you know chewing grains and vegetables and stuff like that which yeah It is entirely possible. I mean that's what those teeth. But also, we've been cooking meat for a long time. We don't have to tear it off the bone,

but we have canines. We're clearly on the horse. Well, they kind of downplayed those. Like, I guess I was not very pronounced. So, but we still have them. What do we do? Yeah, we do. But what they're saying is it maybe even

is a very small portion of our diet should be meat. You know, it's one of those. But every athlete in the movie, right, that they show they show like a powerlifter, obviously, they had somebody like triathlons, they had some endurance like speed bike lady, They had some endurance like speed bike lady And even MMA fighters were the one that like was in the movie author out just kind of narrating it But the issue there I have was none of them were born vegan Live the whole lives as a vegan and we're now at the very top of their sport I think they all as far as I know switched over

Which does make you think that maybe there's a developmental portion of time where you want to eat the very top of their sport. I think they all, as far as I know, switched over, which does make you think that maybe there's a developmental portion of time where you want to eat higher calorie nutrient denser foods like meat, to build your bones, to get all the minerals in, you get to this point of strength. And then it is possible that for some people at a point, they start to get diminishing returns to where if they do turn maybe vegan or they're just removing certain products from their diet, which really just comes down to like elimination diet, which is often very effective. I mean, you can put people on fasts and all their, a lot of their blood levels start to stabilize,

especially their glycemic index, their sugar levels, but it doesn't mean you can't just not eat food forever. It doesn't make any sense. Oh God no. You've just slowed it down. But then these people go on, do this vegan diet and then they're getting these better results. I'd be far more interested and it would be far more

compelling to me if they had a group study of people that were always vegan, had never eaten these. Right, meat and animal products, and at the top of that game, and it wasn't just these select few. Or even if you saw, even if you did your two different groups,

like take two different groups of athletes. One of one group stays on a meat and protein diet for a year, the other goes vegan. Then compare your results at the end of the year. I think a year's a long enough. Well, they did that with that football team that was in the movie. Okay.

And they had, so I can't remember, I just know nothing about football team Titans maybe oh yeah they were like they had terrible seasons and then one of the players wives started making vegan meals for one of the players it all his buddies teammates started to see this and now I think they have like 18 players that are all plant-based and their anecdotal story is that they feel stronger, they're recovering better, and the team has been doing significantly better. Now, that is something to consider. I mean, that's not a terrible point.

No, not at all. But how long do you have to look at it? And remember, these guys are already super athletes that once again had spent their entire lives while developing and growing, building up on a meat-based diet. Like they got to the point of being the very best doing this. And now, yeah, sure, maybe they're adding to it and making it better, but is it sustainable? Could you do it from childhood? Could you get to that point of massive strength just eating this way? They didn't, they didn't really explain that. Which was a little bit of an issue. The other stuff that Chris got into was he basically cited a lot of different studies that said that the greenhouse gas emissions isn't as high as they made out in the

Documentary that the use that the amount of water that it takes to make You know a pound of beef isn't really thousands of times higher than what it would take to make a pound of almonds You know, there's there's a lot of other factors in there. It's hard to know, right? This is what he's saying, right? I wouldn't necessarily say it's his opinion, at least he found some research that backed it, right, but there's truth there somewhere in the middle of something and it's and it's kind of frustrating when they just say straight up, look, Meet is a thousand times worse than this other thing just for the amount of water that they're using. I really would like to know, I wish that they could come together and be like,

all right, this is the study. This is the study that says how much it is because there's just so much cherry picking going on. And it's a little concerning to me because there's a huge movement in England right now for people going to vegan. My younger brother's vegan, two of my closest friends when I went back last Christmas at Turn Vegan and a buddy in mine that owns a gym who's a huge Arnold Schwarzenegger fan just started eating vegan

because Arnold was in this movie. Interesting. Is Arnold vegan? And I don this movie. Interesting. Is he, is Arnold vegan? I don't know. I think that he's been eating more plant-based foods. I see. Recently, but I mean he hasn't. It's all life. He just pounded meat and became, you know,

the greatest physical specimen of his time. Yeah, he was just about like no sweets, no sugars, you know, the greatest physical specimen. It's been a long time. Yeah, he was just about like no sweets, no sugars, none of that shit, just eat healthy. Yeah, that was a lot of meat. He was a big guy. He did? He did. So now he's, you know, maybe he is on this,

or maybe he was just doing James Cameron a favor. Could he do his old buddies? Do you think genetics plays a bit of a part in it too? I mean, in just in terms of like the way we've developed, I mean, there's that one, there's that blood type diet where based on, you know, your blood type based on, you know, where you, your ancestors from, whether you're Nordic, whether you're African, whether you're from the East, whether you're from the, from like South America, they evolved eating different types of foods and then there's always so that idea is that so if you're like AB plus or A plus or whatever you should eat fish and chicken

and if you're from this area of world you probably should eat more meat because you were you know the people that came from those areas evolved eating that type of food. I don't know, but you got to think there's at least some genetic component to it, right? Well, you'd want to believe it, right? But at the same time, it sounds a little simplistic of a breakdown because you get all different blood types in all, in the same way. Of course, I mean mean we get it Yeah, so that's why is it like this this almost sounds a bit like doing your horoscopes a little bit to me Well, I mean I don't think this is much the like horoscopes

But I mean I definitely think there's an idea to the fact that if you come let's say that's the Nordic culture So if you you know if you primarily came from a Nordic culture, that civilization over thousands of years evolved, and they were eating mainly fish. So is that something that your body tolerates far better than something that would be foreign? Because the way genetics, the way the mutations work is that the mutations that happen and the people that survive you know that's fitness they move on to the next generation and so on and so

forth and the people that don't die with those mutations those don't mutations don't move on so if the people are getting out of benefits for meeting fish and they continue to survive but the group that doesn't eat the fish so they eat the chicken or whatever they don't survive. You got to think that that genetic line thrives better on fish because that's how they've evolved, you know what I mean? But that makes that makes sense that's different though than what you're saying because if you then you're saying

right we take every type of Nordic person and And it's logical, you should try and eat like the food was, right? Your ancestors are from, but you get all the blood types in every area. Well, true, we're a huge, no one else in part. We're a huge, no one else in part. Well, I don't know if they might have, I don't know. They might have.

Well, yeah, I don't know. You gotta think that blood type was probably more specific before mass migrations. I don't know for sure. I don't know for sure. Yeah, I think it varies. I think it varies. It's just one of those. But I think that was what the research was based on.

It was like blood type because blood type was specific to a region or it used to be. But I could be completely wrong. I would have to look into that. It just sounds like a book somebody wrote that sounded good. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, it was a big diet like 10 years ago. It was the blood type diet. Huh.

Yeah. A bit again, exactly. It's like, well, how the fuck are we supposed to wait through this realistically and find good information, which is why it gets controversial when people make a documentary like this, because there are ways to make them and put the best information in it. Like what are you trying to do when you make one? Do you want everyone to watch it, which really at the end of

the day, everything is about making money so you can make your next documentary. So yeah, you should want everyone to watch it, but do you have to have everyone to believe it? And if your other thing is to make everyone believe it, isn't the best way to represent yourself, to make it as scientifically grounded as possible, instead of a bunch of interesting anecdotal stories and ancient myths. One thing they brought up and Joe and Chris talked about on the podcast is that this MMA fighter that was narrating it, did some research and found out that the gladiators back in Rome would eat mostly plant-based diet.

And this is how they got their strength. And this is, you know, he was kind of touting it like, they figured out the best way to live and eat and be strong. But Chris and Joe pointed out that, well, wait a minute, they were slaves. Yeah, they were slaves. Do they figured out? They figured out. Yeah, they probably were just not given the best food.

Yeah. You know, they were just co-bloting like prisoners so they could be chubby, heavy, and sustained stab wounds because they got a ton of blubber. Yeah. And they weren't designed to live long. No, who gave a shit? I don't think they figured out shit.

I think they got what they got. That's not compelling to me. No, they said that just was a bit of a red flag. Oh, also, how could you possibly confirm that information? How could you possibly confirm the records of the eating habits of gladiators? Like, come on. Yeah. Come on.

I don't know. I guess that it could do like some maybe some bone tests or something. I don't know. I don't know how I guess that he could do like some maybe some bone tests or something. I don't know. I don't know how they got that information. Some of the other studies were frustrating because they took people that were on regular diets eating meat, smoking and drinking, gave them a vegan diet and said how healthy they were and their heart disease went down. But they didn't really make a point about the fact that they had stopped smoking and drinking, which I think is super disingenuous when you're doing a study. It's like keep them smoking and drinking and make them vegan. Right. That's a way to show it. Mm-hmm. You know, all start with a group of meat eaters that

didn't drink and smoke and then turn them vegan. It's a tainted test. You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't eliminate things and add things, you can't tell what the results are. That's great. I think the more frustrating. This documentary is. It's not, it's not, I don't know, it's, it raises questions who we're talking about. That's good. And I have friends that train with me at Jiu-Jitsu,

and I'm always winding them up about being vegan. And sometimes my buddy Rodrigo, like we're going to battle and here just whisper to me, don't let a vegan beat you, just like, what are you talking about? He always kicks my ass because he's a absolute beast. And he's in good shape, feels good. You know, I talk with him a lot, like, you know, it's not like he's a

depressive person. There's nothing he seems like a very healthy individual. So I'm always curious which is why it's so frustrating to me to watch something like this. And I'm like, you know what, this this documentary could have easily persuaded me to at least give it a shot, but it just didn't, it wasn't compelling enough, and it was a little frustrating. I'm like, I'm thinking, hold on, could you not find enough really good data to support your end, so you have to pick these like shitty examples? Yeah.

Which makes me think that there's less to it. Well, that's, that's too bad. I don't know, that's too bad. It's too bad frustrating. Very frustrating. Now, I grew up a vegetarian. I don't know. That's too bad. It's frustrating. Very frustrating. Now, I grew up a vegetarian. I don't know if you've ever tried a mug, but the first 14 years of my life, basically

until I moved to America, and I was living in New Mexico. There was no vegetarian restaurants that I knew of, and I realized that I'd been living on French fries for like a week, because I didn't know how else to eat. In the end, I just gave it, and from then on, I never really looked back. I've just eaten meat and had different rates of like shitty or diets and as I've got older, I've tried to eat better. You have to, you slow down, you can eat anything when you're like 15. Yep, boy, that's what I found out the hardware.

Hundreds and thousands of gallons of of Mountain Dew that I've consumed in my life That alone It shows how robust we can be But you know I've often thought about that in the sense of sure I was eating eggs and cheese So it wasn't vegan But you know how much was I getting enough of the proteins like was I I'm not a short person I'm six three so I at least grew but were there other aspects to

bone density or like just general nutrition that I was missing out on because I wasn't getting any sorts of meat products. It's something to consider. Yeah, I mean, developmentally, you'd think that would be something, because again, we're omnivores, that would be something that should be introduced to the body. And it's a loosenology, but they say never raise your animals, your pets, like your dogs or cats, vegan.

And I met people to do that I'm like no their carnivores completely you have to give them protein in the form of meat You have to it can create a serious. Go blind. I'll both fucking believe it man Absolutely, I believe it Well at least humans don't so it's all the three little better for us I'm just not going blind, but you see people see people get you see people get anemic though I mean that that was a big thing with vegetarianism and veganism people horrible anemia You know what I mean?

The victim B12 issue was always a thing too because that's one of the major precursors to making serotonin and then they've connected like vegetarianism, veganism with like types of depression, but something Chris brought up that was quite interesting and I'd heard about it, it's vitamin B12 has many other important roles in the body and when you're very low on it, there's some major issues for your heart and just quite a lot of other processes. And that's something I thought about because I never took any sort of B12 supplement growing up. And I wonder where primarily my B12 was coming from.

I don't know how much is in cheese and eggs. So it was interesting. I wish I could remember back better to how I felt. I mean, that would have been a good study in itself. But you're so young and you're so emotional. I'm like, was I depressed? My whole childhood? Like what? Yes, you were, but no. You attributed it to the English weather, but no. You could do that. Yeah, like it wasn't that it was my diet. Yeah. A bad example that they were giving and a few people gave is one of the big power lifters on there was talking about he was like oh you want to be as strong

as an ox if you ever seen an oxy meat and that is just a really dumb thing to say. Well, yeah, I mean, Stegosaurus is were fucking vegetarians. They were, you know, whatever the word is, not a plant eater, you know, plant a source. They fuck your life up, and all they did was eat plants. Jesus Christ. What an ass-in-eye argument. That pisses me off. This is the other one was guy protecting The rhinos that military dude who was a badass obviously eat me this whole life now. He's getting older He was kind of heavier in the in the movie anyway, which I thought was interesting for a plant-based diet

I'm like why is he kind of like for all the exercises doing he looks a little overweight. I mean, he's like stocky massive dude but like for all the exercises he's doing, he looks a little overweight. I mean, he's like stocky, massive dude. But he's saying, I'm protecting these animals and he's like, look, you look at a gorilla and they don't eat any meat. But I'm like, hold on, one, they eat their own shit. That's something I know. Gorillas eat their own shit. Yep.

And supposedly it's to get vitamin B12 because they can't get it from anything else. They have to wait till they've got floor it turn, the foodstuffs and produce B12 and then they either poop. And then they just eat 40 pounds of fucking leaves a day. It's like how are you going to do that? Exactly. You can't just say strength. I want the strength of this animal So I'll do exactly what it does. Well, you know lions are pretty fucking strong too I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend just eating like rolled dead gazelles. No Yeah, they do the they've done themselves a disservice with this documentary. I haven't watched it a little and I'm not gonna

But they definitely sounds like they've done a disservice to themselves. Yeah, I mean, I only did because, you know, we're going to sit and talk about it, but sometimes with these little breakdowns that we do, I'm like, hold on a minute, I'm listening to Joe's one, and now I've got to go read a book. I'm like, oh, this is a little much. I know. Five podcasts a week, but I like it. I wanted to put it in and, you know, there's going to be people listening that, you know, maybe have some health issues and they have thought about going vegan and, and, you know, you want to try and pass along as much of the info that you got from it or at least our opinions.

There's definitely a middle ground in here, but people need to represent themselves better. This is almost like we were saying about the climate change. You could make a silly, I mean the documentary on that would be anti-climate change that would be set up in the same way as this vegan one would be as little as being like oh so uh how do you find this summer and they're like you know what it's not even that hot and it was pretty cold this winter so I'm going to conclude that there's no climate change. Right. That seems to be as in depth is half of these studies went.

It was like one day change. It was like what was it? How did you feel on a week of eating vegan? Oh, it felt better and all my blood levels dropped. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because there was a snowball in January, that means the earth isn't getting warmer.

Yeah. It's one of those. Asshole. It's a little frustrating. I'd like to hear from anyone listening, send us an email if you have been vegan, thought about being vegan, what you thought of this documentary. Hit us up at Joe Rogan Experience Review at gmail.com. You can always check us out on Instagram, same handle, but

without the Gmail. And let us know. It's always good to get some feedbacks and maybe we're we're touch on this later and see. Yeah, it's we'll see. But anyway, that's about us for today. Thanks as always for tuning in. We appreciate you guys. Thanks guys. Thank you Mark. Have a great Thanksgiving. Si necesitas un taller de garantía para tu coche, Motrio te ofrece un mantenimiento multi-marca sin sorpresas con mecánicos expertos altamente cualificados y formados. Descubre Motrio, tu taller para todo lo que necesitas. Encontra tu taller, Motrio más cercano en talleres.motrio.es. Si necesitas un taller de garantía para tu coche,

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