Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - U.S Navy Lieutenant Kegan Gill Interview I Age of Disclosure Discussion I JRER

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

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Two, one, go. Enjoy the show. Hey, guys, welcome to a special episode of the J.R.E. Review. We got a special guest today, Kagan Gill. Welcome. Thank you. We are reviewing kind of two things. We're doing an episode review of Dan Farrow and his documentary, The Age of Disclosure.

So we wanted a special guest on and somebody that really could kind of break down some of the elements and questions that we would have that honestly Brandon and I would just know nothing about. So instead of just having two idiots talking about something that we're very interested in, we wanted to get someone on that could really shine a bit of light on there, someone that's been a lot closer to. to some of this kind of technology and information. Kagan, why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your background. And, yeah, go from that. Yeah, thanks for having me on, you guys. Now we've got three idiots, so that's awesome.

Awesome. But no, I was, I spent nine years of my life in the U.S. Navy as an F-18 Super Hornet pilot. And in that time, I was in Virginia Beach at the same time as Ryan Graves, who's been all over Rogan and the internet and in front of Congress talking about the UAP phenomenon, UFOs. And in my service, I had my own encounters with these craft. And so I'm stoked to be here to talk to you guys about this stuff. Awesome. Man, I am so excited that you said that. Holy heck.

well let's really let's jump right into that i mean that's going to be the first thing that we need to hear so so tell us a little bit about your relationship with ryan how you know him obviously he has interacted with these things seen them and then he's really like he's a whistleblower right he's talked in front of congress he's one of the first guys up there with commander frayva to do that um you know what are the conversations you've had with him I know you've done a podcast with him. And then, you know, what are some of your experiences with these things? Yeah, so Ryan and I were both in Virginia Beach at the same time.

We were in separate squadrons and separate airwings. So we weren't real close with each other at that point. But after the fact, after I got out of the military, Ryan had put together the merge podcast to disclose pilots' firsthand encounters with these craft. and invited me on to be one of his first guests on his show. So that's how I know Ryan. I kind of keep in touch with him still with what he's working on and how he's trying to get this all in front of Congress

and has successfully done so. My personal experience, it started when I was, I was in a high-speed ejection in 2014 and was pretty badly injured. And I spent a couple of years rehabilitating And during that rehabilitation process, I was out of the cockpit temporarily. I ended up doing office jobs, you know, and basically one day I'm sitting at the strike fighter wing Atlantic and I get an email that comes across and it said basically that there

were these craft out in the airspace that we train in off the coast of Virginia Beach that were interfering with flight operations. Now, if you're sending out a division or multiple divisions of aircraft to do a do some high intensity training it's extremely costly it's hundreds of thousands of dollars each time one of these is executed and now you're having these craft come in and interfere with that so that it basically becomes a safety of flight so that you cannot execute the training mission as planned ended up oftentimes it was canceling missions and so I was getting emails from command squadron skippers the commanding officers I was getting it from the operations office officers, like higher ranking individuals within the fighter squadrons were saying that this was an

issue. One was joking they're going to put a sidewiner missile on the wing, go shoot one of these things down. And at first, I thought they were just messing with me. I'm like, aha, funny, funny. I even signed off to the first email when I found out that I was going to be coordinating this communication was Strike Fighter Wing Atlantic X-Files, Fox Mulder signing off. These guys are just fucking with me because you know that's really common in that community we're always messing around with each other but then the return email i got from that was we need to move this conversation over to sipper which is the secure internet and that's when i realized like this isn't just a joke people are really seeing these things now fast forward a little bit and i was

back in the cockpit back flying in that airspace on a mission to do air-to-air intercepts And on that flight, I was flying as the dash two, so the wingman position. And my primary focus was flying formation off my flight lead, but I still was operating my radar, my forward-looking infrared camera, like a long-range infrared camera. And as we're getting out into the airspace to execute these intercepts, the flight lead says, hey, there's an interloper in the airspace. There is something out there. and so I ended up pulling up my radar and got a contact on that radar and I trained my

fleer to it and all I could see at the distance it was was a little a little sphere I couldn't really tell anything it was pretty granular at the range it was at and I remember flying the formation and then when I looked back on the radar that thing had instantaneously moved like five to ten miles closer and now I could see it more clearly it was that little sphere a little more detail. Again, I was primarily focused on flying formation, so I didn't get to really play around with it too much, but very quickly the flight lead called it

that we're going to have to cancel our mission because they thought there was a potentially multiple of these contacts out in the airspace. So we returned from the flight. There goes several hundreds of thousands of dollars and lost training and all the maintenance that goes into those aircraft to operate them, the fuel. and when we get back, I notice that everybody's really hush, hush about what had just happened.

Like, there's this bizarre sphere moving around at air speeds above 300 knots, and what I thought maybe even instantaneously changed position, or maybe there were multiple in my radar, just picked one up after the other. But we ended up writing up a safety report for that. And then what was really strange was in the debrief, nobody even talked in any depth about what it just happened. It was very clear that these other guys, the more senior pilots, the instructors, had been briefed into a program so that they knew that this is something that we just don't talk about.

Now, I was fortunate to be junior and not in a need-to-know position. I was never briefed into those programs, but I suspect that's what was going on, is this was protected information, and we weren't going to talk about it in unsecure spaces. Now, this continued to happen in Virginia Beach at that time. This would have been 2016. I want to say early summer of 2016 is when I saw them. But people continue to see them. Events continue to get canceled.

And it had become a serious concern, enough so that Ryan Graves, another F-18 pilot for those who haven't seen him on Joe Rogan or some of the other podcasts he's done, he kind of took the initiative to like really investigate what are these things. And he was seeing, he was on flights where he was seeing these things with his eyeballs. He actually had a close pass with one that flew right by his canopy, a near midair collision. And so the concern was these things are out there flying around.

We don't know if there are foreign technology. We don't know if these are alien technology, but we just know that there's these craft that move in ways that defy physics with no visible propulsion systems that are interrupting our flight training. yeah that that near collision there uh did he ever describe what it looked like the other craft yeah he said it was about the size of like a golf cart maybe a Volkswagen bug uh it was a cube inside of a sphere that appeared to be like this energy field around it but a solid cube of some sort of metallic substance potentially wow and such an odd description yeah you touched on this a little bit but I'd love to go more in depth on this, you know, the taboo around this subject while serving, were there any, like, serious career risks when it came to this subject of UAPs, UFOs,

while serving? You were saying it was very hush, hush. Yeah, I mean, it's really when there's something that's in a program like that that's classified and at that level, you just don't talk about it. And I hadn't been briefed into that specific program, but I suspect there is one. or multiple, but yeah, basically you just, you don't talk about stuff that's in that realm when you're in service. And also there was still the stigma of they're just going to make you out to be a crackpot if you do. And Ryan had the courage to kind of bite that bullet and knew

that this needed to be disclosed and talked about. And he kind of put his career on the line by going out and really trying to get after it with this stuff. But I think there's absolutely a stigma that exists in the aviation community and the military aviation that prevents people from talking about it. Plus, there's that layer of this potentially being a high-level secret program of some sort that obviously people can't talk about that. When the holiday season rolls around, it feels like there's a party every weekend. And I don't know about you all, but I am sick of the hangovers. That's why I reach for my out-of-office, cherry lime made gummies. They're amazing. You don't get the hangover. Soul is a wellness brand that believes feeling good should be fun

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the code J-R-R-E-R. That's get-soul.com. promo code J-R-E-R for 30% off. What do you think it was about Ryan that compelled him to do it? Is this just a character element of him that he's always brave enough to speak out? Or was this just a particular? kind of, you know, he just felt compelled like this was important enough. Yeah, I think he just, I think he was aware of the potential consequences with this. And I think he just realized that this is an important enough subject that we need to start talking about what's going on here, why we're having to cancel our missions, why we're having near mid-airs. I think, you know, in a big part for him was having such close encounters with

that in near mid-air collisions is terribly frightening. Like, that could kill you or kill your friends. And I think he kind of set off on it in a big part that he just wanted, he wanted to make it more safe for our training and figure out what's going on. And if this is technology of ours, why is it flying in our airspace at times when we're training out there? But I think he just had a curiosity that overwhelmed, you know, some of the potential stigma that was going to come with that.

and sometimes having that kind of personality can be helpful. I mean, he's certainly put himself and his family at potential risk taking this path. A lot of people that have tried to disclose this stuff end up having their careers ruined, end up, you know, not great things are happening to a lot of people that are trying to disclose this information. But he's had the courage because he knows it's the right thing to do. He knows the American public has a right to know what's going on.

And he's really pursued that. along with Commander Fravor, another F-18 Navy guy, and that whole crew of folks that you get to meet in the Age of Disclosure documentary that are, you know, kind of putting themselves out there and really fighting against the machine that is, I think, is largely the defense industry that wants to keep the stuff in a black box somewhere for their own personal benefit. Yeah.

Yeah. Take up for them. Yeah. Right. So, you know, do you personally see this as like, you know, government technology, or do you see this as like alien crafts, like, you know, potentially otherworldly beings? What I think it is is I think this is otherworldly beings, other sentient beings that have created this technology. And we've been recovering and re-engineering this stuff.

for decades, if not the last 100 plus years. I really think that there is a higher form of intelligence in the universe that has craft here. And I think now that what we're seeing is maybe a combination of both. Some may be actually alien piloted. Others are the ones that the defense industry has manufactured and is piloting with humans potentially or unmanned. So I really think it's a combination of both.

And at the end of the day, I really, I already see this narrative being spun is the defense industry couldn't control some of the information that's come out about it. And now the spin that they're putting on it is that this is something that we need to be afraid of. And I think their long-term goal is to basically be producing these craft and creating these dangerous situations so that they can propagate the defense industry investing in more technology to counter it and create this war of the world. sort of scenario where they're benefiting on both ends and kind of creating this whole thing. I really don't think that these beings are here to harm us. I think they're here to help us and move us in as a more primitive species and allow us to develop the way that they've interacted with our nuclear facilities, the way they've shut down nuclear weapons without even touching them through highly secure systems. I think that they're just trying to keep us from

blowing each other up and killing each other long enough so that we can grow to become whatever we come in the future yeah yeah i couldn't agree more um yeah this whole thing is just it's just so wild how weird is it to you since you were kind of on the tip of the spear of flying our top technology you know kind of into battle you've got all the weapons all of the stuff and then you find out there might be technology out there that we built that is light years ahead of what they've given you it's almost reminds me of like you've got roman soldiers running around this is what we go to war with yet we've already invented the machine gun but no one can use it yeah it just blows my mind are we playing a game here are we playing like war games that are a joke i mean it's

it's it's the war machine it's the defense industry it's the military industrial complex that's been driving our country, kind of off a cliff, which is, where's the profit, you know, where's the money? And the money is in developing these new technologies. And now that they potentially can create these alien technologies and create a potential conflict with ourselves against a made-up threat effectively, I think it's all a game, really it is, to make money. Yeah. It's crazy. Do you see, you know, you were saying that there's almost a sense of like, you know,

comfort in the fact that these beings potentially are here to help us. Now, do you at all see UAPs like a national security issue at all? You think it's all potentially like if it is alien life, all good? or do you see this as like it could, you never know? I feel like these things need to be shot down. What is your whole view on that? Yeah, I mean, I think that there's certainly the possibility that other countries have intercepted this technology and recreated their own programs to reverse engineer the technology.

So is it possible that adversary countries have access to this technology and are employing it? Absolutely. So it's a complex issue. are there some that are alien driven and are here to help? I think absolutely. Are there potentials for there to be alien races that maybe don't have the best intentions for us? Sure. I mean, there's so many possibilities with us. It's incredibly mind expanding just to think about the possibilities with it. But do I think we need to go out and be afraid of the stuff that's flying around and shoot it all down? No, I don't think that's the right approach.

But I think if there are these other countries and foreign adversaries with this technology, I'm sure those same people that are in those stovepipes of compartmentalized information on the technology likely have very high awareness of that kind of stuff going on. So is it possible that it's a national security threat? Sure. But should this be something that just drives fear in us to think that there's these alien craft that are out there to hurt us? I don't think that's, I don't think that's accurate either. I think it's exciting times that this stuff is coming to the forefront and so much as being

released. But I already see a lot of the information being released, being spun to propagate more fear, more war, more technology, feed the defense industry, and just charge this polyindustrial complex that's overtaken our country and our world to new levels for its own benefit. Yeah, it's going to be difficult to. kind of work through what information they release and how it's given to us for sure so we've got to stay we've got to stay vigilant through this but back to the national security threat i mean something that came up in the documentary that really stood out to me and i had heard the stories

before but you know what's different about this documentary is it's the the older uap documentaries with more kind of crackpot type styles you know it was just guys online that had Googled this and that, and then they just had these whatever stories, very compelling, very exciting. But the list of credentials that they had on this documentary is kind of undeniable. And then they're talking about, you know,

they've got these military officials, CIA guys, high level. They've been in for 30 years. And they're like, yeah, there are documented cases of these UAPs flying over. over nuclear sites and turning them off and then flying away and then they turn back on that is a major concern that's either a message to us that's definitely some type of communication but that's that's wild i mean who knows if they could just fire them off too yeah i mean i think if they could they would have done that.

I think they could have already wiped us out if that was their intention, you know. But I think because they haven't wiped us out and they're deactivating our nuclear facilities, that's a sign that, hey, they're here to keep us from killing ourselves. They're here from keeping our technologies from whiten us out. And who knows what the ramifications are, you know, through the universe when one of these devices detonates when we, you know, the bombs are dropped and we set off a nuclear. reaction like what does that do through space time and other dimensions that may exist and i'd imagine that they're here to keep us from causing any more harm with it and i think they're here to see our

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for safety effectiveness or quality prescription required see website for details restrictions and important safety information yeah i think too you know there's theories also online and just like you know from other officials of multiple species working with the u.s. government um i thought the documentary was great it's nice to see a documentary where all the credentials aren't just reddit mods you know it's like real people. Right. Was there anything about, and sorry to interrupt, but was there anything about the documentary that you found to be far-fetched or that you were like, I'm not buying this?

No, I thought it was really well done. And I think everything in there was very legitimate. And just presenting the way that the individuals that were disclosing information to Congress are being attacked, they are being, you know, they're having their reputations eroded through media, and you just see the machine at play. You see this corporate-controlled media trying to belittle some of these individuals for coming forward. And this is the playbook that they use time and time again to discredit people who are very legitimate. So everything in the documentary really wronged true with me and what my perspective is and

the information I have. And obviously, I don't know everything. I know just a glimpse of it, just like you guys. But I think this is very legitimate. And I don't have any reason to believe that Ryan Graves or Commander Fravor or any of these guys have any reason other than things that will actually put them and their families in jeopardy, their careers at risk. So it's taking a lot of courage for these individuals to come forward and talk about this stuff. It's not glorifying for them. It's not really helping them in their lives and their personal lives. but it is what they know the right thing to do.

And so it's it's incredibly inspiring to see the level of courage that it takes for these people to come out on the line and knowing all of that and do it anyways. Yeah, it just seems like a lot more work to somehow get all of these people to lie at this point. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a pretty elaborate complexity. And for this to all just be made up, it doesn't make any sense to me why they would do that. And I know these craft are real. I've seen them.

I have no doubt that this is absolutely legitimate what they're talking about. When you first encountered them, you saw the dot, you saw it move. And I assume you'd never seen anything like that before. You're highly trained with all the senses and things that were happening. When you very first saw it, immediately did you know that that isn't normal? It didn't move. Like, immediately you're like, well, this should be some other plane moving around. But it's not moving like it should.

Did it seem smaller? Was the shape weird? Like, what was hitting you that was off about it? Initially, initially it was, is this some kind of like weather balloon? The spherical object, like are someone like down below in fishing vessels releasing weather balloons up in our area that are made, you know, like a metal material that's going to disrupt our training? Like, is this one of our. adversaries maybe just fucking with us. But it wasn't a weather balloon because it was going 300 plus

knots. And no weather balloon I know can go 300 knots. And there was no winds aloft anywhere near that that day. So it was one, it was just a bizarre shape for an aircraft. And it wasn't a balloon and it had no visible propulsion coming out of it. Because you can see in that infrared camera if there's like a, you know, a conventional propulsion system pushing this thing around. It had none of that. But it was moving at high rates of speed. And then it just zapped from one point to another. That's what it appeared to do on my radar. Is it possible that that was some sort of electronic attack or maybe there were multiple and the radar dropped one contact and picked up another? That's totally possible. From what I could tell while I'm also simultaneously flying

formation was that contact went from one position to instantaneously to another position and got picked right back up. And when I put my fleer back on it, it was that same spherical object. And you'd talk into the other guys as well, just like, are you guys seeing this? Holy shit. Yeah, it was mostly the flight leads were communicating back and forth. So as a wingman, you usually, you know, you don't talk unless you have to. But I was overhearing the conversation of, yeah, there's something that we have interlopers.

We got to. And you could tell that they were like, okay, we know what this stuff is. And we can't really talk about it in detail. but we can't do our mission right now because they're flying right in the middle of our airspace. So then they just bring you back. See, what gets me, and obviously you know when you can't talk about something,

you know there's like this chain of command, there's hierarchy that I can't even really understand, but I can imagine, right? I've talked to some military people. I have some ex-special forces friends that talk about kind of like the need to know I can imagine. and but also because of your training you know that machinery you know what the limits of your technology is and then you see something else that it's like that doesn't make any sense i just

can't imagine the overwhelming curiosity that you'd have to be like but did you guys see that yeah to be able to hold that in would be just too much maybe i i just don't have the discipline for it It's probably the answer. Yeah, I mean, it was incredibly exciting to be like, wow, this isn't, this isn't some made-up bullshit. This isn't, you know, a flying saucer. Someone took a picture of because they threw a pie tin up in the air. You know, this is, this is a real craft that is moving in ways that are beyond our technology. And it was incredibly exciting to see that.

And also just brought like a sense of calm, like, okay, there's a lot of. more going on in this universe than we have any idea about. Yeah. Now, I'd love to know, like, how common is stuff like this? And would you say most pilots have these encounters and just choose not to talk about it? I mean, in that time frame, there were dozens and dozens of these, if not hundreds, of encounters in that airspace off Virginia Beach. It was happening on the West Coast, too. Commander Fravor was the guy who saw the, I think they call it the gimbal.

It was a different shaped craft that was going in and out of the water in covering, you know, covering areas that were massive in just split seconds, almost instantaneously changing position and traveling at 40,000 plus miles per hour. So we've been seeing this stuff on both coasts. separate times. So I know there's commercial airline pilots that have seen it. And I think a lot of people don't come forward about it or speak out about it. One, because of being briefed into a special access program that has knowledge on that, you're no longer allowed to without severe punishment. And also for those who are not briefed into that, say like a commercial airline pilot,

there's that stigma that's going to potentially alter their career. Like, oh, this is the crazy UFO guy. like no one wants to fly with that guy and potentially, you know, have them lose their job, have them be questioned for their mental health. And once you go down the mental health hole in aviation, your career is pretty much done for. Yeah, you know, they talk about the 80-year government cover-up, right? So I guess that goes back to Roswell. So let's assume that's when we got the first craft. We've been somewhat reverse engineering it since then since we don't really have any information but that's the assumption we've been getting some technology from that so the mind-blowing thing from the documentary for me was that

maybe like most of the cool shit that we've invented since then with technology we didn't even invent we just ripped it off look at the technological advancements that have been made in that time period where we it's like all of the good stuff dude yeah and and i and i really think that the defense industry has control of this technology, and they're releasing it in little ways that benefit themselves, but they're not going to release the big stuff. They're not going to release the energy technology that would completely change the landscape of our gas and oil industry. I think that there's, I think there's bigger, better technologies that we have access to and have recreated and could utilize, but we're not because

the established system wants to keep things where they are, keep things in control. And, yeah, it's a big complex, polyindustrial complex that is really seized hold of this technology and using it for its own benefit is my theory anyways. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. And, you know, so much of that makes sense because at the end of the day, with power, like we're talking energy, you know, all you have to do is set up a system. it's like, all right, give them enough to where we can just make a lot of money from it, right? And who kind of cares about the environment all that much, just make lots and lots of money.

The bit that I don't understand is the weapons technology portion of it. So during that 80 years, we have invented better things. You know, they were like fighter pilots, like fighter jets, then we got like the stealth bomber. and then we're making new types of missiles all the time. So, like, the technology is improving for warfare. But if also we've had the potential for, like, this super technology as well and these incredible crafts and maybe even anti-gravity ships, how are we deciding which things to release and when?

Is it that we just figure out what other countries have and go, oh, we just need to be 5% better than them? for war, as long as we can keep winning, that's where I don't understand it. And I was wondering what your thoughts are, considering you use the top technology stuff. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there are these technologies and weapons systems that we have recreated and have in our arsenal that are just in programs where they're not discussed or disclosed and are out there being utilized. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we do have weapon technology, aircraft technology that's way beyond anything in our conventional inventory.

But they want to continue to make the fighter jets. They want to continue to make the conventional weapon systems. And so I think they're playing their cards very close to their chest in a way so that they can maximize their profits and all of their industries that they're connected with. Yeah, I think we probably do have that technology. I think it's probably in a program somewhere that nobody knows about. It makes sense, but I, you know, I kind of feel like you guys would have noticed. Like if all of a sudden a base just disappeared, an enemy base, and you're like, well, which one of our teams went and blew it up? Yeah.

And no one knew. It's, it's, it's, you might be surprised at how compartmentalized everything is in the military and how what blinders that you have on. I get it, yeah. And, you know, the technology in the Super Hornet, while you may look at that thing, go, wow, that's some serious high tech. Like, that's 1990s technology. We've got, I mean, it's basically like operating in a Microsoft DOS computer that flies. You know, it's very primitive compared to something like an iPhone. So there's no doubt higher levels of technology that are being utilized.

And the complexity that I can only imagine, you know, but. I think, I think that we have a lot, a lot more going on inside that world than almost anybody knows about. Yeah, for sure. Like, I think, you know, the government's having a lot of these companies back engineer technology, which are later being sold by big corporations. Like, for example, look at the iPhone. You know, it's like you have a company like Microsoft take forever to make a gaming console just for a little like thin square thing. to be able to do high resolution, like practically the same thing.

It's just wild how much technology has evolved since then and since like the last 20 years, which is incredible. And I'd love to ask you, like, you know, I feel like the dam's starting to break a little bit with this stuff before, like, again, all these documentaries were just Reddit mods. And it really, like, it felt like there was really no progress. now that things are starting to snowball a little bit, where do you see this conversation in, I'd say, like 10 years? Where do you think things will be?

Yeah, I mean, I hope that we continue to be able to disclose more and more of this information and have it become public. I mean, they have now publicly stated that there is these otherworldly technologies and beings that do exist, which is a huge statement. step in the right direction. Again, my caution is I think that they're going to try to spin this in a way that makes this something to be afraid of to propagate more war and more conflict, more fear. I hope, I'm hopeful that there's just too much information out there now, that there's all these decentralized media outlets, your podcasts, like all these podcasts have become

most people's primary source of information because we've seen how broad. broken the traditional media system is and how corporate control that is. And people are sick of it. And we can, in my hope for the future, the truth will prevail. And we're going to get to move into a new Renaissance era of humanity where these technologies are being shared for the benefit of humanity and no longer being controlled and uses tools for war. It is my hope. I hope you're right, man. I really do. You know. what do you think their odds are and they have to be high but they talk about um some of the and graves talked about it some of the sightings over bases they were like a football field size

craft flew over one of the army bases and they must have video of this they have security cameras all over military bases like what what would you imagine footage-wise they have. I mean, I'm sure there's a tremendous amount of footage that is classified or in a program that's not currently released. You know, we've gotten a few Fleer footage videos from Commander Fraver and Graves and some of these guys who've been able to have that released. But the vast majority of that footage, I'd imagine, is still classified and probably

won't be disclosed for as long as people can control that. information and maybe there's good reason to control it too um but we'll see you think you're just too scary i mean they give us like a grainy dot on a radar and none of us know what we're looking at because none of us are using radars ever yeah so to see something fly over a base is like well there we go that's it that's enough and we're not getting it yeah yeah yeah i mean i wouldn't be surprised if more and more of that stuff starts to get out there now that there's the sort of whistleblower movement. But I can also see the other end of that, which is these people are going to be made examples of potentially and we're going to stop seeing the release of the

information or they've already taken better control of that information release and not allowing it. What do you think the punishment would be if some, I mean, people have access to that, right? Obviously, they would get in trouble if they released it. Is the trouble you get in, like jail forever? What kind of level of trouble that happens to you? Yeah, I mean, if you release information within a special access program, you're talking about going to prison for the rest of your life. You can also face all these other consequences.

You can have threats to your family. You can have, you know, there's a lot of bad stuff that happens to people. Have your reputation destroyed publicly? And you see this stuff happening to the individuals who have been brave enough to come forward. Even just in this past year where they basically put in, there was an act of Congress to allow the disclosure of compartmentalized and classified information in a skiff so that this information could be collected and analyzed. And even the people that were doing that, that were just talking about very legitimate things that they had been basically put in charge. of through the government. And when they started to do their job,

they personally had severe consequences, losing their careers, losing their jobs, having their families threatened. And people have been killed over this stuff. So it's incredibly high stakes with what's going on right now, especially if you want to go against the machine. Hey, Ontario.

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You have to, if you have top secret things, which the government should have, and especially in areas of military stuff, then how do you enforce that? You have to have strict rules. It makes sense. the other thing that gets me is when you think of hackers right hackers are always getting into banks and you know just breaking into all sorts of things online it surprises me that they can't get into some top secret military stuff like they must be really locked down hard because i would imagine people would be looking for this also edward snowdon who had access to all the

what was it NSA stuff he talked about that openly and he was like look I had access to tons of information even military stuff and he said I looked for it and there was like nothing about UFOs nothing I'm sure

it's in a top priority for the compartmentalization and when it's at that level they're going to use the best of the best to keep that stuff secure it's probably a continuing arms race with you know, now AI and the encryption technology is being compromised with quantum computing

and now hackers have access to that ability. There's probably a lot of work on the inside to try to continue to develop the technology that's protecting the information to keep it secure. And maybe there will be a breach. Maybe there already has been a breach. Maybe adversaries already have access to that stuff and are rebuilding their own versions. Well, it's tough. It's very possible, but it's also tough because some of these leaks, it's like, I feel like the bigger they are, the less people believe in them, you know, because if you have like potential pictures of an alien body, people go, oh, well, that's obviously bullshit. You know, it's like, it has to be this fine line of like, okay, that's possible. It's not super clear footage, you know. It's a really weird fine line, I think. there's really no winning because if you really crack the nut and get some really insane

information out, it's like people will be like, yeah, I saw that, you know, in a movie last year or something. It's just Hollywood. So I feel like Hollywood has built up this narrative of it's just, it's all fake, it's movie magic. That was the go-to plan for decades was anybody who talks about this stuff is a kook. And you see those characters. and films you see them all throughout our society but I think what's really incredible about what graves in favor of Don and Groshen and all of these guys is it's kind of legitimized this conversation in ways and now people are talking about this like oh yeah I think people's minds have been opened to this subject and I think it's going to continue to evolve

hopefully in a positive light where this is just known as fact yeah Yeah, I could see, I could see these people being discredited and having their lives crushed and delegitimized in the corporate media. And next thing, you know, we're kind of back to where we were and everybody can't really talk about this stuff. It really doesn't know the truth. Now, if the truth comes out, do you think, like, society as a whole is ready for it? You know, I think I think this would be a relief for people. I think this would be, you know, a calming thing, like, hey, we are not alone in the universe, which most people, I think, have kind of already kind of accepted and thought through. Like, look how vast the universe is. How can we be the only planet with life? It's just completely improbable. But I think it's exciting that this has kind of come to the light and people are accepting it. And I think humanity can handle a lot more. I think there's this. dumbing down like, oh, the people can't handle this information. They can't handle the truth.

I think the truth is why that's being said is it's just another narrative of trying to cover this up for the benefit of those who control the technology for their profits. I don't think that humanity would have a problem learning about this and accepting it and knowing the truth. I think everybody wants to know the truth. And the truth will come out. I mean, it always does. exactly exactly and it's like even at a religious standpoint wouldn't you want to understand the things flying around in the sky you know i heard reports of the pentagon classifying some of these as demons right saying that it's a religious thing and these shouldn't be talked about and studied which is just ridiculous it's crazy to me yeah again that's that fear-based mindset which is

unfortunately plagued our freaking entire world lately which is we need to be afraid of this. This is going to change the way people think about this. What does this mean for our religion? What does this mean for our beliefs if these are real? And yeah, it's going to, it's going to freaking stir up the pot big time. And I think there's a lot of fear for the people that want to keep control of things the way they are and this sort of fear letting it slip. And man, I think everybody's sick of this fear-based mindset running everything, having to be afraid of everything like let's let's let's let's let's evolve to pass this place of fear and that's where i think most people have been stuck intentionally because when you're afraid you know you go

internally you don't connect with people you end up just becoming another freaking drone for the machine and um i don't know i personally i'm sick of that i don't want to be afraid anymore i don't think we need to be afraid as a society anymore let's let's find love instead love and truth and grow and evolve yeah we're not babies we can handle it yeah let's get the truth right we have we have a right to know this this is this is a foundational truth of our universe that there is other intelligent life and everybody has the right to know that and the fact that it's been bogarded for so long is uh is frustrating but i'm excited to see the truth coming forward finally me too sure one thing i want to do

wanted to end on, and this might be difficult to kind of quantify, but just to give kind of an idea of, you know, your knowledge of the equipment that you used, which is, again, cutting edge compared to what you saw and what you've talked about with other operators, you know, and you've heard of these things flying at 30,000 miles an hour, making left-hand turns instantly, being able to go into the water, which that one sounds nuts, because I can't imagine the power and pressure and all those sorts of things. If you had to kind of quantify how many times ahead of us that technology is, what kind of leap is it? I mean, even to just compared to like swords and shields and horseback troops to modern warfare capabilities,

it's it's leaps and bounds beyond that development. I mean, these are craft that are basically altering the space time around them so that they no longer are limited by gravity and frictional forces. It's it's so far beyond anything that we have that we're not even in the same ballpark. Like how do you shoot down something that can alter space time around it? I mean, you can't actually physically hit it because it has this energy field that it's basically allowing the craft inside it to move like energy vice matter. And it's just so far beyond anything we have. So far beyond it's not even comparable to anything in modern warfare and historical warfare. so many light years ahead of that it's like hitting a tank with a stick yeah yeah yeah like

folks out there in loincloths with sticks trying to fight modern armies with aircraft and tanks and helicopters it's it's even it's beyond that man let's hope they like us that's terrifying I think it's clear that they do because if they didn't why would we still be here and would you say the the point for you was there literally a moment where you were like oh shit they exist it's 100 percent was it a slow crawl to where you're like oh i'm kind of getting into it okay it's there was it a switch and when it happened was there any sort of change for you you know i had had you know i saw those emails initially which kind of piqued my curiosity like whoa this is legitimate but my thought at that time was like this is just like uh

This is a compartmentalized program. It's probably our craft or maybe an adversary's craft that's doing this. But as I kind of unfolded it, after I had my own encounter in the aircraft and saw it myself, it was like, holy shit, like this is something beyond all of that. And now that I've kind of done a deep dive myself into that world and talked to other individuals in positions of knowing, I have no doubt that these. These are other beings that are not human. Maybe humans evolved.

Maybe we all come from that same place, but something far beyond what we are. And that was actually just incredibly relieving for me. But it did take time. It takes time to accept this. It wasn't really just like a switch where I immediately was on board like, oh yeah, there's aliens. Cool.

It took a while. yeah well shit i'm sold me too that's enough for me yeah it's uh it's exciting man it's it's real yeah kegan thank you so much for coming on this was awesome you shed so much light on this i had so many questions and it was great to just have someone that you know really could kind of delve into this with us if you guys have not seen the age of disclosure documentary you've got to watch it It is fantastic. If UAPs are your thing, you know, or you just want to watch something mind-blowing. If you're on the fence about this kind of thing, or even really skeptical, like, this is the documentary that you've got to watch.

And I would say, as for Rogan reviews, this was a 10 out of 10 for me. I mean, this is my first 10 out of 10. It was just fantastic. Mind-blown. Love that. Same. All right. Incredible.

Thanks everyone. Take it easy. We'll talk to you next time.