Jono, Ben & Megan - The Podcast - BONUS: Former Prime Minister Helen Clarke On International Women's Day!

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Former Prime Minister Helen Clarke On International Women's Day!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Right Honourable Helen Clark, welcome to the Dishonourable Jono and Ben. Good morning to you both. Hey, nice to talk to you. How's things been? Well, busy, busy, busy. Big family occasion coming up this week with my father's 101st birthday on International Women's Day. Oh wow! Oh my gosh! Wow! Happy birthday! 101! That's a phenomenal, it seems like something you need to say, but a phenomenal innings.

Phenomenal. And in good shape to enjoy it as well. Oh, that's awesome. Now, of course, it is International Women's Day today. And your career, you know, you've been so successful in politics, which I imagine is an environment that could be hostile at times. What sort of, what kept you going and succeeding? I think shared determination and a lot of support from family and from close colleagues. You know,

it wasn't a bed of roses when I went into politics, and it certainly isn't today. I was reflecting on the life of Georgina Bayer, who passed away, and she became the first transgender MP openly acknowledged in the world. And it was not easy for her to come up through the ranks in the 1990s and do what she did. So the struggle goes on. It's still not entirely straight sailing for women in politics, but the good news is there are many more of them, including in our own country, where we've got to gender parity right now in Parliament.

Well, speaking of New Zealand women, you look at Kate Sheppard, yourself, Jacinda, Lorde, Ruby Tui, Dame Cath Tizard, the list goes on and on. What do you think it is about New Zealand women that make them so determined? I think New Zealand women are aware that our country was the first in the world where women fought for and won the right to vote. So that's always been a proud legacy. And I think over the years, people have said, well, it's not enough just to have the right to vote. We've got to be in there. We've got to be at the top table. And of course, we have be at the top table. And of course we have been at the top table. I think on a rough count

for 16 of the last 26 years New Zealand has had women Prime Ministers and we'll hopefully keep on seeing women holding those top posts at least 50% of the time on average. So no, I think we've got a legacy to be

proud of and we've built on it a lot to be world leading in this area. What do you see as your greatest achievement? So, I mean, obviously, first elected female prime minister, you've worked with the UN as well. What would be the one thing that you pick out as your greatest achievement? Nothing beats being prime minister of your country. Yes, I was privileged to hold a very senior position at the UN,

but nothing is as good as being the leader of your country. Yeah, I can imagine. So certainly an achievement I'm proud of to have come out of three elections as Prime Minister and served those nine years. I'll always be proud of that. Is this interview close or not quite up there? Oh, well,

it's one of many. One of many interviews, yeah. And I might say a good one. The audience is listening in a good spirit and thinking about what International Women's Day means. We'll say top ten.

Today. Now looking at, and I don't want to reflect on Jacinda's tenure as Prime Minister, but you were there, you were in exactly the same position. Arguably, you also had a lot of mud slung at you throughout your career. Do you think it panned out well for Jacinda towards the end, or do you think she just had enough of the whole thing? Look, the going gets tough, and she dealt with some very, very difficult issues.

I mean, I dealt with difficult issues, but nothing like a pandemic, nor a terrorist attack that left dozens of peaceful Kiwis dead. So, no, there was one thing after another, and I think that, as she said, she gave it all she had, but she realised the tank was empty, and at that point she made the right decision for herself and for her family. She'll bounce back. We'll hear of Jacinda doing other interesting things with her

life but right now I think she's just enjoying dropping Niamh at the childcare centre and picking her up at the end of the day. She's just taking time out. Things that she would have missed out on working so much. Because I imagine the hours, being Prime Minister you've been there, you've done that

would you have any time for yourself? Well it's difficult and I didn't have a young child either so I didn't have to think around that. She's had a very supportive partner in Clark but nonetheless she wants to be there for her

little girl, and I think everyone empathises with that. The critics who ripped into Jacinda, they're always there. They ripped into me, they'll rip into others, but I think what's put more pressure on in more recent times is social media, where these people form their communities online and whip themselves up. You're right.

And it's such a wonderful tool in one regard, but it could be such a dangerous platform on the other side of it. That's right. I mean, social media can definitely be a tool for good and for spreading news about good causes, mobilizing people for good causes. It can connect families. But it's got this sort of underside, as it were, this underbelly of the people who congregate in really quite nasty groups,

shall we put it. And so, yeah, very difficult times. And no one's really worked out how to properly regulate this kind of content. Look, we live in a democracy. We appreciate freedom of speech, but there are always limits. There are limits with, you know, radio and TV. You've got the Broadcasting Standards Authority, and there's limits with the print media.

You know, the New Zealand Media Council does quite a good job. So this sort of space on the Internet is ungoverned, if you like. And it's just the Wild West out there. It is. Yeah, it really is. Now, just to finish off, Helen Clark, what would you say to young females listening to you right now? What I would say is aim for the top and live your best life. Don't

think you can't do it. Of course you can. Have the confidence to step up, have a go and keep at it. If you really want something, keep at it. Don't be knocked back easily and have confidence in yourself. I think sometimes as women, perhaps we don't push ourselves as hard. And we take a lot of knockbacks, but we have to get up each time and keep pushing forward. Well, Right Honourable Helen Clark, we appreciate your time this morning and thank you for taking part in one of your top ten interviews of all time of the day. Oh, absolutely.

Take care. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Bye now. Bye.