Jono, Ben & Megan - The Podcast - Is AI The End Of The World? | Itty Bitty Bit

Episode Date: September 14, 2026

Could AI be the end of humanity? Sean Lyons from Netsafe joins us for a chat. His take on the AI panic is equal parts reassuring and hilarious...   Join the Itty Bitty Hitty Committee HERE!Instagram:  @THEHITSBREAKFASTFacebook: The Hits Breakfast with Jono, Ben & Megan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, Sean Lyons from netsafe.com or dot com or dot co.n.z. You're accelerating me higher than I am. It's just dot org. It's dot org. You didn't get all the domain names there. Dot org sounds more serious. It does. Yeah. Well, Sean, it's lovely to have you back on the show. Last week we talked to you about scammers, online scammers. It seems like in the last seven days since we did speak, there's been a flurry of content online of former employees of AI. companies who have got the gilts and left the mothership and now going AI, it could potentially be the end of the world?

Yeah, there is certainly quite a lot of doom and gloom around. And I think that probably always has been to some extent. I heard someone a long time ago saying to me, worrying about the problems of AI end in the world is about as important as worrying about overpopulation on Mars. I mean, it's definitely a thing that can happen. but I think that is changing. I think there are more and more conditions now around.

I think we use this technology more and more and more. I think it's certainly a time to stop and take to think about how and what's around that. But I don't think it's necessarily a time to say, throw it all out. And suddenly, you know, what was fine two months ago is now the beginning of the end of the world. Well, you used to laugh, you know, I felt like every while ago, you were like, oh, you can tell AI, it was six fingers and things and all sorts of, you know. And now it's like, oh, my goodness, it's very hard to. tell what is AI and what's not these days.

The technology has moved so fast. Yeah, and it's very much the nature of the way this technology works, it kind of had to go through that phase. They have to work out whether or not Six Fingers looked better or not, and they decided that it didn't. And so I moved on. But part of that is us all reacting in the way that we did and going, you know, now I hate that because, you know, I've got two heads,

and I don't think that's a good thing. So that is how it works. Look, definitely in terms of the way it is in. improving, it's great because it's improving in the way that we would like it to. But I think we also need to be conscious of the fact that that means that anybody that chooses to use this technology to create calm, let's talk about it in those broad terms, is benefiting from those kind of changes and improvements at the same time. So it does mean it's harder to spot in those ways.

It is harder to spot when we hear a voice, maybe that is, you know, planting misinformation. rather than genuine information or it might be in terms of a stand that suddenly looks a lot more realistic. So we need to be aware of that. But also we need to see that that's some of the advantages that we get from using it. And that's after all really what this was designed for in the first place would kind of make our lives a little bit better. So this is all come about after some guy was like AI is going to take over and end humanity. do you think there needs to be some kind of slowdown or regulation put in place? Are we doing enough?

I don't think we're doing enough yet, no. I mean, I think the slowdown, certainly that a lot of the CEOs are talking about, I kind of understand where that comes from. I think if that was a universal slowdown, then what that slowdown meant was that we got to focus more on the kind of the safer technology, the guardrails, as some people refer to it, the frameworks is how other people see it. The technology tools might be how the embedded technology safety tools, might be how other people see it. If that's what slowdown means, then yes, I think we're there.

And if everybody's doing that slowdown, then I think that's part of it. I think part of the problem that we're seeing here is this is a gigantically global. globally competitive race, if you want to use that phrase. And that means that this is companies, but also countries, governments, research, that there is a real sense of race to get to the best or to stay one step ahead in a near constant race. And I think that's always a dangerous environment for suggesting a slowdown. Because if somebody slows down and everybody else uses that as a chance to speed up. It's like the space race.

Yeah, you're right. The space race, but on steroids. Can I ask, I ask you like, for the average Kiwi, you know, who sometimes, you know, maybe puts a photo of themselves up there and wants to look, what they look like in the 80s or puts in and says, oh, can you change this email or things like that into AI? Is that a risk for the average Kiwi, putting that sort of information out there? I mean, I think it is possible that there is a chance that, you know,

We put information like that out on the internet and that then gets used to the course. I mean, let's not be around the bush. The source for all of these models generally is the internet. That's how they've become so good at what they do. They're really just, you know, it's prediction, basically, is what these models are really good at doing. They couldn't have done that without learning from stuff, and the stuff that's learned from is on the internet. But in saying that, we are all using them. That is how they have gotten better.

So it's kind of that information out there that is fed, that that's made them useful. I think the thing to think about is not kind of the kind of us sharing our information out there. I suppose if we have to worry about something, it's that people may deliberately use these technologies to harm it. And probably that's where we should be focusing our attention and our thoughts into thinking, well, hang on, what do we do? As an individual, if I find myself being harmed by this stuff, how do I take action?

And, you know, it's when we're also thinking, you know, what should we as a country be doing? Should we have some kind of framework or regulations or tools or whatever it is? Where should we be applying that pressure? Make sure that this stuff that we're using is as safe as it can possibly be rather than playing catch up after people are harmed. Wow. So we're not worried about creating a super species that's going to end us next week. At the moment, that's positive news, Sean Lines.

Quickly just before you go. has this been the biggest advancement in technology you've seen in your career? It feels like it's all just happened over two or three year period. Yeah, well, I mean, look, it definitely has, and I've been in this game for a very long time, and I've thought the other things that I've seen in the path were the biggest advancement. But I think the thing that's important to remember is that this is actually just a continuation of all of those technological advancements,

right, that we wouldn't be looking at this if we didn't have a free and open internet. We probably wouldn't have used the internet, as much as if we hadn't made the internet social. And here we are now using this information to build these models. It's not suddenly dropped out of the sky. It is something that's been coming for a long time. And I think hopefully that that's what gives us the sense of security that somebody isn't building a super race to take over

and make us all redundant and lockers in a box. But this is just the way that technology is moving forward. And sense will prevail as it has in many other contexts. and I think we will keep control of this technology. That's my most optimistic outlook. And that's why we love Sean Lyons. He's a Kappa, full guy. Sean Lyons from NetSafe, Chief Online Safety Office.

Appreciate your time and we'll speak shortly. Absolutely, pleased to be here. See there, mate.