Jono, Ben & Megan - The Podcast - MINI: US Based Journalist Anna Burns-Francis on Roe vs Wade

Episode Date: June 26, 2022

Listen to our full conversation with 1News US Correspondent Anna Burns-Francis on the Roe vs Wade Abortion ruling. How it happened and what it means going forward. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's with the Jono and Ben podcast. Huge protests and uproar in the USA over the weekend as the Supreme Court ruled in favor of eliminating a woman's right to abortion, a right that's been in place since 1973. It's now going to be decided state by state, and it seems like such a sad backward step for a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. We're joined right now by One News US-based reporter Anna Burns-Francis

to try and explain what the heck is going on. Kia ora, good morning. Kia ora, good morning from the land of the not-so-free. I know. They're absolutely not brave. It seems like such a backward step and a really sad day, not just in America but right around the world. Yeah, because people look to America, right? This is supposed to be the home of freedom and rights and pushing the boundaries

of things, you know, capitalism and tech companies and amazing, pushing the limits of space and stuff. And then we're like, what has just happened? We've gone back how many decades? 31 million women have immediately, already over the weekend lost their right to obtain an abortion in their state. The thing I can't get my

head around is obviously Joe Biden, he's the president, he's come out and said it was a sad day. And I was reading something that said that the majority of Americans, when you look at it, don't want this. So how does it happen that the Supreme Court gets to make that decision for the rest of the country? This is a terrible clash in American politics where the popular vote does not dictate who gets into power. So you had a president under Trump who didn't win the popular vote, but was in power, and then through a series of resignations and deaths, he happened to appoint three in his term, three really conservative Supreme Court justices

who have these very conservative, hard right-wing, very religious beliefs. And they all sit there in their confirmation hearings and say, we of course can't, you know, precedent exists, we're not going to overturn anything. And then they immediately do as soon as they have the opportunity to do so. And that's the problem is now, how do you reverse these sorts of things? You actually need to change the entire makeup of the way America votes its politicians into power.

And so you were mentioning, obviously, certain states can put this law into effect. So, for example, California, do they vote and decide whether they're going to put it into play or it's just a decision from officials? So, I mean, without going into like a massive, you know, retrospective of American politics around women's health care, basically every state has had a position on this for some years. And over the last decade, a lot of those states that you're now seeing ban abortion already had these laws ready to go and they were already fighting them in court.

It's just that Roe versus Wade meant that all these courts were saying, no, no, no, no, Roe versus Wade exists. You can't do this to women. Now that that precedent's been overturned, all of these laws can suddenly come into effect. So you've really seen this quite strong split. And actually, if you put it on a map is where you really get a picture of it, basically

draw a big red crayon straight through the middle of the country from top to bottom. Those are all the states that are banning or have already banned abortion. And then on either side of the country, anywhere with a coastline that goes out to, you know, left and right on the east and west, those are the states that are now shoring up their abortion laws. And so that means they're kind of putting in these safe havens, they're building funds to allow women to travel.

So nothing's stopping a woman leaving one state where it's banned and going to one where she can have an abortion. Well, on paper, I hate to say it, these states are absolutely trying to stop you doing that. And they are going to punish people

or threatening to punish people who try to cross state lines. That in itself becomes an issue, right? Because you can't tell a woman that she's not allowed to leave the state. She doesn't have to tell you why she wants to travel. And then also, that becomes state overreach. This is where the Department of Justice sort of says, well, And then also that becomes state overreach. This is where the Department of Justice sort of says,

well, hang on, that's state overreach. You can't be telling New York that it can't help people from Texas sort of thing. So this is where it's going to get so messy because the Supreme Court said, OK, Roe versus Wade is thrown out, punts it back to all the states, but doesn't actually provide any guidance on how this is supposed to play out. Yeah, it seems like in those states pregnancy any pregnancy loss can be now investigated as a crime and and they may go into like searching histories browsing history text messages all that sort of stuff which just seems totally and and people will say to you don't be don't be ridiculous that's actually go and have a look at some countries that have really restrictive abortion

laws that's exactly what happens and it first look at some countries that have really restrictive abortion laws. That's exactly what happens. And it first starts off with prosecuting the women or the doctors and the nurses and the support staff who help provide this health care, and then it trickles down and suddenly the women themselves find themselves prosecuted. It absolutely happens. One news reporter, Anna Burns-Francis, with us from New York.

Now, Anna, on a personal note, you're living over there, you're based over there. How do you feel about it? I feel it's really hard. I feel really sad, actually. I feel really a bit, everyone just feels a bit depressed and a bit deflated that this is where we are. And even in New York, because you sort of think, OK, it's good, fine for me. I'm in New York.

I'm OK. And as a New Zealander, I'm doubly okay. I've got another country I can escape to. But you know, it's really, you feel really sad because this is not going to affect me. This is not even really going to affect all the women I see out at protests and rallies. Those are the people who can afford to fight for women's rights. You know who can't? The woman who works double shifts on the chicken line at a factory in Texas, in El Paso, who's just made it over the border and may not even have paperwork. You know, these are the women who have really tough life choices to make. And you know,

of those 13 trigger laws, this is the thing, they're banning abortion, but what are they doing to actually help once the child is born? not a single one of those 13 states offers even a very basic level of paid parental leave. So this is all about control and about stopping women accessing healthcare. This is not about ensuring that children are born into a protected and well-funded and educated healthcare and life system that they can grow up in and be happy and healthy and contributing members of society.

That's not what is going to happen here. Do you think now that other laws may get looked at? Is that the worry? Absolutely. And it's not even a worry. It's been explicitly stated by Justice Thomas Clarence. He's the only African-American member on the judiciary of the Supreme Court on the bench.

He has put out his own opinion. So there's a hierarchy. His was one of the opinions that was released, shoring up that majority position, believing that Roe v. Wade, this is the time to overturn it. And then he went that step further. And he said on the basis that Roe v. Wade is overturned, every other law that has used that as a precedent and as a basis for arguing its constitutional right. They're not laws, they're constitutional rights.

And I should be clear about that. But all of those now need to be looked at. And you know what those are? That is same-sex relationships, same-sex marriage, access to contraception. These are huge, sweeping precedents that have dictated and guided the lives of tens of millions of Americans, they will be the next cases that get looked at. This is just a stepping stone. Jeez, dark day, sad times. Anna Burns-Francis in New York, really appreciate your time. You keep safe over there.

Thanks, guys.