Jono, Ben & Megan - The Podcast - MINI: We Chat To Charlotte Bellis - Pregnant Journalist Stuck In Afghanistan & Can't Get Home

Episode Date: January 30, 2022

You may have seen this all over the news over the last few days - Charlotte Bellis is pregnant in & stuck in Afghanistan and can't get back to NZ to give birth, because she can't get an MIQ spot. We spoke to her about this and how she even had to approach the Taliban to figure out her options, if she couldn't get home.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jono and Ben for breakfast on The Hits. You've probably heard about this story over the weekend. Charlotte Bellis is a Kiwi reporter. She's pregnant and she's based currently in Afghanistan. She's stuck in limbo as a result of New Zealand's MIQ lottery. Here to explain more and tell us about what's going on is Charlotte herself. Thank you so much for joining us. How's it going? How are we?

Firstly, congratulations on the pregnancy. Oh, thank you. That's very exciting. that's awesome the uh that's the best part of the story yeah the not so good part of the story is you're kind of stuck in limbo yeah it's uh there's pros and cons to the current situation yeah now if anyone hadn't read the uh the article that was in the paper over the weekend or it's been all over the news over the weekend, can you quickly just explain the situation you're in at the moment? Okay, I'll try and make it quick. I fell pregnant unexpectedly in August against all odds with my partner Jim, who is a photographer

in Kabul also and I usually work in Kabul with Al Jazeera and I went back to Qatar I found out it was illegal to be pregnant and I'm married there so I was facing prison so then... So hold on, in Qatar you can't be pregnant and not married? Yeah it's illegal. What happens if they catch you? Someone who was, they had their assets seized and they were illegal. What happens if they catch you? Someone who was they had their assets seized and they were deported and other people

just go to prison. I think it's like a year in jail. So you had to go get a pregnancy test to find out if you were pregnant there but pretend it was for someone else who was married, right? Yeah, I had no idea what to do and I was like, if they go there they're going to ask. And I was like, if they go there, they're going to ask.

And I was like, I'll just say it for this married friend I've got. So I went into that and I was like, oh God, now it's positive. What am I going to, what's the next step? So yeah, I mean, it was a difficult time for questions. And I was thinking, well, if New Zealand's borders are closed and I can't be here where can I go? So Jim and I are from Belgium so

we thought okay, we'll go there for a bit but Kiwis can only be in the zone for like three months every six months so we chewed through about half of that and then at the time our borders were meant to open end of February so we thought okay, we'll keep some up for an emergency. Where else can we go until end of September?

And then we both have visas for Afghanistan. So we thought, okay, I approached the Taliban, some contacts I have that I trusted and are fairly liberal, and said, this is the situation at home, we can come there, but are we going to have a problem if they show up with a bump and a boyfriend? So do the Taliban frown upon unmarried pregnant ladies as well? Technically, it's illegal here also.

Oh, really? Yeah, but they said, look, you're foreigners, Technically, it's illegal here also. Oh, really? Yeah. But they said, look, you're foreigners. What you guys do is between you and different culture. And frankly, we're just really happy for you. Congratulations. Sucks you can't go home. And, yeah, if you come, you know, just, well, they said keep it on the down low. Obviously, that hasn't happened now.

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, and they said, look, you'll be safe, and if anything happens, you can call us. So the Taliban are looking after you. Yeah, they've been great. So, yeah, but you can't get back through the MIQ system right now. As you described it, it's kind of like a Hunger Games-esque type lottery, isn't it? I mean, you see it from the outside and, oh, yeah, that sucks for that person.

And, oh, yeah, that sounds like an awful situation. You know, they can't get home and they're dying or something. And we've had those articles in newspapers and stuff so much. But it's not until you're actually in it that you're like, wait a minute, this just doesn't make sense. Yeah. I mean, at the moment, we actually got an email back, well, today for us in Kabul,

saying that we're invited to apply under a different category. Okay. The category being that there's a serious risk to our safety, as opposed to we need medical treatment. And yeah, my lawyer and I are talking about it at the moment about how we're going to respond because, I mean, nothing has changed in our application. And they said apply under the medical one. Chris Bunny was on the record in the Herald this week saying that's the right category. She just doesn't meet the threshold for it. And now they're saying this category.

I don't know why we're debating clauses when nothing is changing our situation. The fact of the matter is I'm a citizen. I pay taxes. I'm pregnant. I'm in a dangerous situation. Why am I jumping through hoops? You've already got all the information. Jeez.

To kind of meet your threshold. I mean, can we not be more solution-focused here and say, like, look, you've done everything. You know the story. What have you got against pregnant Kiwi woman stuck abroad it's a wonderful commentary on our MIQ system when the Taliban are being more supportive and caring than the New Zealand government

that was a whole thing to be kind though wasn't it this doesn't seem like a kind situation well the Taliban listened to that message some Kiwis have offered you their spot I understand, I think four Kiwis I read today Kiwis have offered you their spot, I understand. I think four Kiwis I read today in the paper have offered you their spot in MIQ, but you can't swap spots.

There's another thing you can't do. No, that's not allowed. That is banned. That is another one of the clauses. Yeah, I mean, I really don't know what to say anymore about kind of the logic of where we're at. I mean, I was saying over the weekend in the media, like, how proud I was to be a Kiwi. You know how at the beginning it was like, wow, your country's absolutely nailing this. And I was so proud to be like, yeah, I know, we've got this.

Like, your country's a mess, but we're pretty solid. But it's kind of now that Omicron is spreading in the community and we're 93% vaxxed. And if you're positive, you can home isolate. But if you're negative and boosted and in a dangerous situation abroad, you can't get on a plane. I mean, I've got so many questions around kind of the reasoning and logic and the ethics of it at this point like where we

are now and there's still like radio silence from the government and there's no admission of like yeah actually this isn't really fit for purpose now or that weight that's actually no pathway for pregnant women to get home um and it's just kind of radio silence. And when you're saying, you know, choose a different category, it's like it's just giving them an opportunity to say like, oh, well, she just chose the wrong category. But if she'd chosen the right category, she would have been fine. Well, that's true.

When it's like, why are we talking about categories? We did what you asked in the beginning. I don't know if you saw did what you asked in the beginning. I don't know if you saw the meme going around in the weekend saying that if you were a drum and bass DJ, then you probably have a better chance of getting back into the country. My partner was just saying, I wonder if for the drum and bass players, if they have like 1A1 versus like the guitarist has 1A3

and if they got them back to front they don't get in why don't we start up our own festival, join on Ben's festival and you're the headliner and we need to get you into the country our heart goes out to you you would not want to listen it's such a difficult situation I'm sure

a very stressful time for you and we are really feeling for you and sending lots of love your way and hopefully we can get it all sorted for you. Yes. And hopefully, I don't know, I hope this has moved the dial towards a slightly more kind of logic-based, empathy-based approach

for the thousands of Kiwis who are abroad and would love to come back to the homeland. What's your message to Jacinda? If she's listening now, she's probably not, to be honest. What would you say to her? She's isolating by herself, I think, over the weekend, isn't she?

Yeah. She's probably got a bit of time on her hands sitting here listening to you guys. I think it's just kind of like, can we look at the big picture here? And, I mean, what would she do if she was me? And where does she expect me to give birth? Very good message.

I mean, that is kind of the crux of it. Yeah. Charlotte Ballas, listen, you keep safe over there. Our thoughts are with you, and we'll keep in touch, and we hope it all gets sorted for you. Thank you, guys. Thanks for your time this morning. See you, buddy.