Jono, Ben & Megan - The Podcast - We Get Real About Our Mental Health!

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Warning: This podcast covers topics of depression, anxiety, and suicide. Listener discretion is advised. Please seek support if needed. In light of Mental Health Week, Jono, Ben, and Megan open up about their experiences: The stigma surrounding discussions about mental health with friends Realising you can't always trust people you thought were your friends The pressure to sell your personality to get a job Adjusting to life after losing a friend Going on anxiety medication Being talked about publicly while going through something deeply personal Imposter syndrome and the challenge of understanding someone else's experience Advice the team has used over the years to support their mental health Need to talk? Free call or text 1737 any time for support from a trained counsellor. More links to help here: https://mentalhealth.org.nz/helplines See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This John O'Benn podcast brought to you by HelloFresh, the experts in tastes that Kiwis love. Hello, welcome to this very special podcast. This is John O'Benn and Megan here. We are talking mental health, Mental Health Awareness Week. Yeah, it's a big weekend in New Zealand. We've covered it a little bit on the radio this week, which, you know, it's been great talking to people like Di Henwood, Jazz Thornton as well, about their mental health journey and some tips as well.

But we just thought, well, hey, should we we jump on there's no real agenda for this podcast i guess i did i sent out the agenda oh i didn't get that either i haven't seen an agenda but it's probably just a chance to have a chat and if you're hearing it now it means we thought it was good enough to put out as a podcast and if not it doesn't it might not be a podcast i can be honest with you i'm 50 50 on this. And it was my idea to do it. Why are you 50-50? It's fine. We need to talk about it more,

but it's not something we generally do as a show. And maybe we should do it more. It doesn't come naturally to us because we're so like, yeah, let's have a laugh. And it's not to say mental health. It's hugely important. We should talk about it more. But I know it's very hard when you're doing a show every morning

and you're doing a show that's meant to entertain and upbeat. It's a real gear change to have these conversations. And that's why we're doing it in podcast form. And sometimes it can come across token. You know, there are some wonderful shows out there that do do fantastic things for mental health. Absolutely. Morning Rumble, one of them,

done many years great work with men's mental health. And so you don't want to be like. Oh, we're just trying to jump on this. Yeah. Because, yeah, but it does affect everyone in various forms. Everyone, whether personally or people they know, often both as well. So it's, you know, it's great to have weeks like Mental Health Week where people can talk about it. Also, it's hard for us too, because generally on the radio, we are restricted to like a four four five minutes at a

push you know so we might get into a topic and then we're like right oh coming up the alpha quiz you know yeah and and also the way you are feeling i find that you know necessarily like you you can have a bad day you have days when personally mental health is not great but you don't want to be that person on the radio where you know you can have those real chats from time to time but you can't have three hours every morning of that. So you put on this mask or you put on this performance base. Well, it's not the most enjoyable radio for her. We come on with all our problems.

No, no. She's bloody battling today, mate. So all you have to do is pretend to be happy for three minutes at a time. Yeah. Because everyone has stuff going on in their lives. And everyone will know about pretending to be happy at times. not say you shouldn't be your real self but everyone will know i've got to go into this pick the kids up or do this thing you know and you have to go okay i don't really feel like doing this now but i will pretend and i will smile and that's kind of what the radio

is sometimes sometimes not all the time with a lot more fake laughter though yeah that's true yeah sometimes i've had those days where you just're like, I don't feel like laughing and joking around with everyone today. But then you come in and that can be the best medicine. You know, like having your mates around and having a laugh. At the end of it, you feel a lot better than when you went into it for me. But in general, in life, you have to put on a mask, don't you? When you think about it? Yeah.

And no one is probably genuinely 100% themselves, even with your partner at times. Yeah, I guess. You don't want to be a Debbie Downer, do you? Yeah. And bring down the vibes of the room if you're feeling in a bad way, so you just put on a mask, and that's probably a large part of the problem yeah exactly yeah but it's weird because hearing you say that i'm like well i

would want you to tell me but then if i was feeling like that i'd be like well i don't want to burden johnny yeah like we don't practice what we preach at all i'm like well i would definitely want you to be like dude i'm having a shit day and i'll be like you know i'd want to make you feel better but then i would never be like oh god I'm just having the worst day you know yeah you want to put that on someone else yeah yeah and sometimes you know people will ask you how you are and you'll say oh I'm okay or you know this thing's gone but it's a real hard to go well when do you have that conversation yeah you know if you are having some things so when does that you know because you're like this is not going to be a quick conversation yeah yeah this is not gonna you know yeah and you are wary

of other people's time. Yeah. You know, they've probably got a meeting in five minutes or something. Yeah. When is the right time to bring it up? I always find it interesting, too, because you have everyone's, obviously, gone through it themselves or have friends in their group who have gone through mental health issues. And sometimes you can, they can come across being rude or angry, can't they? People going through their own struggles.

And that's because they're dealing with their own stuff. There's probably a level of frustration there. I know that I've had a couple of friends where you're like, well, I haven't said anything. And I've just let them go completely in a downward spiral. And you've gone, oh, they've just been in a really shitty mood. They're not answering my calls. They're not texting back. They've shut off.

And there's times where I've definitely had a friend pass away, took his own life, and I should have stepped in multiple times. So the warning, you felt like the warning signs were there. For years. Right. For years. And it was more, jeez, it was years ago now, and I was a lot younger too, and you didn't feel like you uh and it was more geez it was years ago now and it was a lot younger too and you didn't feel like you had it was awkward it was awkward to bring up and it shouldn't be

yeah yeah but that's only speaking truthfully about how i approached it and then even after that fact you're like we're gonna be more over what i was saying they'll be more open have more conversations and yeah to be honest haven't no you know it's hard yeah oh yeah i mean i struggle i struggle a lot with mental health and i don't talk to people about it, you know, and I don't have those people that I kind of do. And it is a hard thing to bring up, you know, and you do feel for other people that are going through it. Because I think the thing about mental health is, and I've kind of not learned, I'm not

an expert, but it doesn't matter if you're successful or not successful. You know, you hear celebrities, they've got millions of dollars. They can suffer from mental health. It doesn't mean their mental health is any less important than anyone else's. It's a real problem around the place. Isn't that weird, though? Because any other thing you go to the doctor for, like I break my arm, everyone could break their arm.

The brain is just another part of your body that has moments where it's not working right yeah why is that why does it come with so much stigma and it shouldn't and that's why i guess what this week's about right yeah mental health week yeah yeah it's it's it is interesting because i i i think i probably struggle with anxiety sometimes i've had panic attacks and stuff but but I, for whatever reason, have never gone to a doctor or anyone to sort it out, which is probably a huge frustration for my partner. But I like to arrogantly think I control myself better now. Like I've gone to therapy, but I've never been medicated or anything like that. And I've never had anyone say, yes, you have anxiety. But I think gone to therapy but I've never been medicated or anything like that. Yeah.

And I've never had anyone say yes, you have anxiety but I think I know that it is and I've never, I don't know why. I don't know why I've never had the confidence to go and like sort it out. Yeah.

I know. Do you see as a sign of weakness that if you have to rely on medication or professional help? Because going back to my friend, he would refuse to take his medication. Right.

He was like, I don't, I feel like I can do this myself. Full disclosure, after my divorce, I was on antidepressants and I didn't like them. They made me feel like really like. Spacey. Yeah. And I was trying to do radio and I felt like I was real, like, not myself. So I just went off them cold turkey, which I now know you're not supposed to do. Plus, I imagine you don't want to become reliant on them as well.

Yeah, I just had all my own thoughts about it, which was so dumb. And I got the shakes. I had brain zaps, and I, like, was physically unwell. And I told my boss at the time and he was like you're not supposed to do that and he got me extra help but I like was just I had no idea and I was like I don't do this anymore so I just went off them and I've just always been really I don't know like in my head about all that kind of stuff I find the older you get to the uh the more like I didn't used to worry about things as as much as i

do now you know and there's and there's always reasons why you you know like getting arrested at the airport or getting tv shows cancelled or all those things can lead to the way you are now there's always reasons behind these things they were like 15 years ago this wouldn't affected me but now it does because of this thing i find there's a big one and this industry too you know and i don't want to about this industry because we're fortunate to be in it but the tv industry in particular has always been the dream of mine to be tv and and radio and and have that huge part of my life just disappear yeah it's been hugely hugely hard for me to get home and i reckon most people i thought had my back and when my mates are not are not i've clearly worked out they're not yeah no they're not they're not friendly but they're not they're

not fighting for you in the rooms that you're not in for and that's been a real hard lesson to learn for me you know and we've spoken briefly about you've had the same similar things you know in this industry as well you know it affects your confidence and who you are because and like we're totally privileged to be this is not like we're not doing heart surgery it's a very privileged totally and that's why i feel weird talking about this because it's like come on mate you're on the right you know like but i totally know what you mean because we sell our personalities like we are our own brand so like when people say they don't want you it feels really personal it's like we don't like you literally don't want what i personally bring to the table

so it hurts so like you're not like just a terrible chef where like geez that person can't cook yeah yeah i see what you're saying or your specific skill someone else is better at that skill than you it's your personality you know so when they're like, it's not personal, it's like, it is. I get that. And I think a lot of people in this industry and probably many others as well, they put so much gravitas on who they are as a person on their job. Yeah. You know, you place so much importance on the success and your happiness

and well-being for, you know, and that's correlated to how well you're doing in your professional life yeah and it shouldn't be the way yeah but it is and in a lot of professions you're like if i'm successful in work then everything is going well in life it's not necessarily the way no and like you say i always think about sports people so they would you know like say all blacks they spend their whole life from when they're young gearing up to being this All Black. And then your career, in terms of careers, finishes pretty early. Yeah.

Like you're pre-40 usually. And then they're like, well. What next? What next? Yeah. Because you spend your whole life focusing on this one thing that ends. And then you've got to figure out a career path after that. And you're right.

People go into this mental health, like battle with what is my worth and what is my place in the world. Yeah, well, that's, I don't know, and there's nothing wrong with putting a whole lot of your worth and well-being on your professional career because that's, you know, for many people what they're passionate about and their hobby as well at the same time. You look at like, you were talking about Daniel Ricciardo,

the Formula One driver. Yeah. For weeks they've been like, he's going to go, he's terrible, he's sick, you know, and he would be so in his head. That interview I showed you where he'd just done the race and he knows, he knows it probably is his last race in Formula One and they're like, how do you feel about it? And he's like trembling, his lips trembling and he's like,

yeah, I was just trying to savour the moment. It's like this guy is like, you imagine what that must be like i know yeah well yeah it's not just yeah that's not formula one it's not just me it's so many of those jobs that you are yeah yourself through but i mean he will earn a lot of money and he's in a privileged position but he's not immune to yeah mental health struggles yeah it doesn't make it his mental health any less than in someone else what they're going through as well. So being able to have separation between the two parts of your life, the private and professional, is key.

Absolutely key. Like how work's making you feel or how you feel you're doing at work, you've got to somehow leave that at the door and separate that from your personal life because that is so special. What's going on in people's personal life friends family and everything it's easily uh taken for granted i think at times but i also find it weird that we spend so much of our life around people

all the time even in the street i'm like always thinking we're walking past all these people we're all living the same experience, but I don't, we don't even speak to people, you know, like I find that weird. And then you go to work and I see all these people here every day. We don't talk. We don't know what people are going on. We don't, we're just like, hey, hey. And like some of the people out there I've known for years and the only conversation we ever have is like, how was your weekend?

Good, you? Good. That's so weird to me. Yeah, no, Larissa, who works in the promotions department, she said for many years, all I would say to her is, how you going, mate? Yeah. And she'd say, good. And then that was our interaction. Yeah.

Doesn't go any further than that. Crazy. People you see every day. You're right. Like, and you end up seeing them sometimes more than your family. Like, that's not natural. No. Not true.

It's unusual. Yeah. Yeah, it's very unusual but maybe we should just like try and you know talk a bit more when someone's like obviously not having a good time just be like hey are you actually okay what do you do when you're having a bad time you can't say drinking no what do i do specifically you can't say drinking i mean getting against i find like there's a lot of thing for me in routine like fresh air exercise those things you know like just to kind of do those so things at least if i do some exercise at least it's something i feel like i can control and i feel better for doing you know it doesn't solve the world's problems but at least it's like i've done that because if you don't exercise or something i feel like oh that's another thing i now had to my list of things i'm like i haven't done that either i haven't done this other thing you know or

something you can control environment that's like jazz thornton's another day like she was like oh i hate it but exercise is really good and it is like you know it's good for you it actually like releases good chemicals into the brain and you've achieved something too i find with that and just like focused your mind on yourself switching off your brain is something i really struggled to do yeah to be to be honest because this just you know with this job all you're thinking about is ideas and all you're thinking about is content when it's making social you know so all you're doing all for your life is you know making videos and things and it's content and then so that i use i think you know, so all you're doing all for your life is, you know, making videos of things and it's content.

And then so that I use, I think, you know, the times I have been to talk to someone professionally, they're like, you are still, you're using that part of your brain to other things as well. You know, you're going to those places that may be because your brain's just working overtime because that's what you're used to in your job. So you're probably thinking about all these things that could potentially go wrong or other things in there. Catastrophizing.

Yeah. Yeah. In those situations, because your brain you used to your brain just like cool let's let's go through a hundred different things that you know that could happen or what happened or might happen or do you know it's like yeah and that's you know it's fine when it's a work situation but when it's other stuff you just go into those places you go to worst case scenario every time yeah but and that's a huge yeah but i but because of trauma you've had i didn't you know i didn't go to worst-case scenario for the airport

and then learn that one the hard way, you know. Yeah. And, you know, I learned that with a court case and huge fines and losing work and having the mortgage up for, you know, all this stuff and putting, you know, strain on relationships with friends and people, colleagues, and putting them through shit. And it was – that was worst-case scenario for me and then being all over the media. So I was like was like well if that can happen for something that i didn't

foresee then i'm gonna force i'm gonna put everything through that filter now you know and as i say before that i wouldn't have gone to that place but because of that that means i'm like that now so there's a reason i guess for this something really horrible and like you were worse than me but like when your name gets put that out there and everyone's allowed to comment on you and your situation and you know what you did like the public is like shit it is shit when everyone has a comment about you personally and it's like a free-for-. It is the most horrible thing. And it tears you down in the most horrendous way where you look inside yourself and you're like, does anyone actually like me?

Like, am I good at this? Like, you know, like you have this really raw, horrible moment where, cause you read the comments. Yeah. Especially when you've got something public, like what Ben went through. And then you look at someone like poor bloody Reagan. Yeah. Oh, totally. Just from something as simple as breakdowns.

Yeah, and the hate that she got for that. Terrible. And now you go, well, how is her mental health for that? It would not be good. I wouldn't imagine. No, she's getting more. And you're like, she was out there just to spread joy and then to be involved in something, you know? And also what she did did she didn't break

the law no she made us laugh yeah like i think we as a show come at those kind of things from a very empathetic standpoint because we know what it's like yeah like even with the dave grohl thing i'm like i mean he didn't break the law again he broke the contract with his wife he screwed up so he needs to they need to deal it's not for me to be like You're a terrible human Because he's getting that anyway Yeah That's the other

There's so much opinion everywhere Yeah Which can affect people Too Even You fall down rabbit holes Of information on TikTok And that can

Deeply affect your mental health You know I've got a friend Who falls down those rabbit holes And I'm like Jeez you have really changed. Really, just from information just constantly coming

at him. And because he's clicked on one or two videos, now they think, oh, this is the type of content he enjoys. So he thinks that's his world and then you get sucked into this vortex of, and you've got to pull yourself out. Go outside. Get some exercise.

You're right. The media and the internet can't be trusted because they build an algorithm around what you're looking at. So you get into a little bubble of certain content. And it's not actually the full picture. I don't want a Turkish hair transplant. I clicked on one ad once. Just out of interest. What was going to happen?

I think the world has changed a lot where it would have been interesting to see statistics on mental health. Again, years ago, 80s, 90s wasn't spoken about as much. But whether there were as many mental health problems as there are nowadays with the environments that we're in now. Or people just told

like Sir John Kilmer, I hugely admire what he's done. He was he was you know being an all-black who was traditionally staunch you know that all those sort of things that we now know shouldn't be the case back in the day yeah no mate get out there he was suffering from it and probably is still you know but to come out publicly and to talk about what he's going through hugely brave yeah and to go hey you know i'm not okay and stuff it was it was amazing what he's done and. Hugely brave. Yeah. And to go, hey, you know, I'm not okay and stuff. It was amazing what he's done and continues to do, you know. He would be a pioneer

for that in this country anyway. But you're right, but back then there was probably other people and the team going through the same sort of stuff but not brave enough

to talk about it, you know. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Everything has changed so much. But like, you can, the best thing we could do is talk about it.

Just talk about how a girl's feeling. You need to do is talk about it let's just talk about how it's feeling but it's hard it's yeah and i guess it's hard because i don't preach always what i what i'm saying that's the thing i sometimes feel hypocritical when you're like go and talk to him be in listening ear when you're like well i probably don't do that enough with my own friend group yeah so it's it's something that you need to be active on isn't't it? But also, like, rather than being like, well, I just need to go listen to someone else, maybe you can start by, like, talking to them about you first and being more vulnerable with you,

and then they will feel safe to do it back. I don't know. No, that's good stuff. And sometimes when you start the conversation, the starting of is the most daunting. As soon as you're in the conversation, it's absolutely fine. Like this? We're all like, oh, God, what are we going to do?

What are we going to talk about? Yeah, true. You had a 50-50 split on this at the top. Where are your thoughts now, mate? Where are you sitting percentage-wise? I don't know. I mean, it's, I don't, yeah, I go around in circles because I'm kind of like, who, we're not expert.

What are you? Shut up. You know, in my head, I'm like, again, my brain's going, shut up, just shut up. What are you saying? You don't know. But do you know what that is? That's from what you've experienced in the past. You're reading those comments back in your mind about what you're doing now

because I get that too. Every time I talk now or I record anything. So I stop banging on about your thing? Yeah. I don't like listening back to anything I've done on air because I'm like, who wants to listen to you? Just shut up. You suck. Like, you know that's what you know like yeah i don't like listening back to anything i've done on here because i'm like who wants to listen to you just shut up like you suck like you know all of that yeah plays the posture syndrome is a huge thing yeah you know like when you don't feel like yeah you're quite you know you're like you still i still get that you know but most most

weeks you know when you're like oh geez i feel like i'm i'm meant to be here my and i guess we're coming for things when your confidence is low we're getting knocked back again that rejection thing and it makes that stuff worse it's just a cycle of like you know you can see how that happens yeah but it's a fine line of using that as a driver too yeah isn't it imposter syndrome yeah it's uh having that balance in your head of that's what makes you strive to keep working hard and in whatever industry you're in or whatever you're trying to achieve in life. But, like, I get my imposter syndrome, but to hear you say that, I'm like, you guys have had, like, a very long career in media.

You're very well recognized for all of the successful things you've done. Like, I don't understand your imposter syndrome. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, right. I'm like, why are you going forward being like, oh, I've got to know here. I'm like, how many yeses have you like, oh, I've got to know here. And I'm like, how many yeses have you had, though? And how much success have you had?

You know? And even the airport scenario where it ended up getting, you know, all of that went down. It was, in the first instance, it was still very entertaining. Like, do you know what I mean? And I don't know if I'll get in trouble for saying that. But it was. It was a great idea. And it was entertaining.

And you meant well. Well, it was. It was a great idea, and it was entertaining, and you meant well. Well, it was never intended to be. No, exactly. Which I should have thought through a lot more, but yeah. Your intentions were to entertain people, and you did. Yeah. And you've had a very successful career subsequently. So, like, to hear other people talk about imposter syndrome,

you're always like, what? Yeah. Like, Taylor Swift's got imposter syndrome. You just like everyone does everyone does yeah no one probably feels like they need they deserve to be where they are i know what they're doing yeah we're all just making our way through life making things up aren't we yeah i've got a theory that no one in this business knows actually what they're doing that's probably a lot of people generally in life don't know i still feel like I'm a kid and I've got two kids.

You've just got to say things with confidence. So do your parenting with confidence. Damn, she's got her shit together. That's the key to life, isn't it?

Deal with confidence. But also the hard thing is you can't keep living in the past either to move forward. Spoke to Di today again. We quote him all the time, Di Henwood,

and he's like, can't control what's happening in the past. You don't know what's coming in the future All you can do is be living In this moment that you're in right now Obviously you can organise yourself In some regard You've got to go pick people up at 3 o'clock from school But you've just got to live in

What you're doing now This is all you can control, what we're doing right now That's a really Simple, nice way to look at life what you're doing now. This is all you can control, what we are doing right now. You know? That's a really simple, nice way to look at life. Yeah, again, it's great.

I try to be better at that, but I do struggle with that. But yeah. I mean, it's easy to say. Yeah, but it's a great way to be. And if you can do it, I'd love to be, you know, like more.

And that's not to say don't learn from what's happened in the past. Yeah. But you can't change it now. Yeah. All you can do is control what you're doing now that's really does simplify things down and worrying about stuff that's happening in the future well that hasn't happened yet yeah so you can't change what's gonna happen well i find my kids help me with that because they're still little so everything's like blows their mind so like we find a ladybug out in the backyard and it's like the coolest thing they're like yeah i want to see it oh and i'm just like yeah it is

pretty cool it's like really shiny blue you know like simple like simplifying life down to like man the sun feels good on my skin yeah wow look at that shiny ladybug you know like well john keown talks about that again he talks about the cough his coffee in the morning and his shower yeah those are the two things where he takes a moment to go okay i'm gonna i feel the water on my back and i'm taking a moment and it's hot and it's nice and that's my and whatever it is he's like it might not be the shower or the coffee for you it may be anything else but the thing it may be the appreciate the sun or whatever it is yeah you go okay that's just a moment to go okay yeah that's cool i get to do that and then just have a sip for me and it's good and this is my moment you know i like to yeah yeah but yeah my wife was

saying she uh she went to some therapy and stuff and if you're in a moment too you can just go breathe in and then hold your finger and your fore fore thumb together and then work your thumb down your fingers and taking a breath in each time. So you do eight in total. And that apparently recalibrates yourself if you're in a fluster. Okay. Yeah. That was a really terrible thing to describe in an audio form. Oh, well, I saw you doing it. A lot of finger base.

Just think of your, yeah, you're going to have to do a lot of making up there. Yeah. And what did Di say? He has a cold shower when he's spiraling. Yeah, it changes his temperature. Yeah. That's clever. Just in the shock of, yeah, cold water. Yeah. That's clever. He's in the shock of,

yeah, cold water. Yeah. Obviously you need a shower handy for that one. Shower in the ocean. Yeah. I guess that would kind of work as well, wouldn't it?

Well, I don't know if any of this has been helpful at all for anyone, but it's been. It has been. Yeah. It has.

Just hearing someone like you and Jono like open up about And yourself. Vulnerabilities. Yeah. It's not something that comes naturally. But it's nice to put it out there. It's a great week to be

talking about this sort of stuff. So if you are going through any of this stuff, we are thinking of you. And if you have people you can talk to, it's a really good place to start. I thought I'd just play this music. I didn't know how else we were going to end it. Here we go.