Jordan, Jesse, GO! - Salted Up, with Margaret Cho

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

On this week’s episode, we welcome comic legend, Margaret Cho, to chat about snack lore, her new album (Lucky Gift), almost being shot out of a canon, competing on Jeopardy, and more!Check out Margaret’s upcoming tour dates.Order Margaret’s new album, Lucky Gift!Go see Jesse at An Evening with Kruk & Kuip: An SF Sketchfest Tribute!Jordan will be at the Albany Comics & Fandom Expo, May 18th!Jordan will be at the Toronto Comic Arts Festival, June 7th and 8th!Jordan’s new Spider-Man’s comic is out now!Pre-order Jordan’s new Godzilla comic! Be sure to get our new ‘Ack Tuah’ shirt in the Max Fun store.Or, grab an ‘Ack Tuah’ mug!The Maximum Fun Bookshop!Follow the podcast on Instagram and send us your dank memes!Check out Jesse’s thrifted clothing store, Put This On.Check out Producer Steven and Margaret Cho’s chat on See Jurassic Right about the “Movies That Made Us Queer.”Follow brand new producer, Steven Ray Morris, on Instagram.Listen to See Jurassic Right!

Give a little time for the child within you, don't be afraid to be young and free. Undo the locks and throw away the keys and take off your shoes and socks and run you. It's Jordan Jesse Goh, I'm Jesse Thorn, America's Radio Sweetheart. Jordan Morris, rich with chips. Well Jordan, look, I'm a generous man, what can I say? You make it rain chips on your good friends. I take care of my friends Jordan in the form of chips ordered from Walmart.com. I'm up there shaking my ass on the pole and you're there showering me with Pringles Mingles.

Okay, so recently on Jordan Jesse Goh. Just no touching, okay? Hands to yourself. Got it. There are no chips in the champagne room. Sure. Jordan, not long ago on this very program, a certain type of chip came up of which you were a big fan. I went onto the internet to order those chips for you, to have them sent to your home. I think specifically the ones we were talking about were Hot Wing Ruffles. Yeah.

And they sounded great to me too. Yeah. Well, I think just to give folks the rundown, I think what was going on was I was saying that I had always wanted to try these. I see them in the grocery store. They call to me. I'm a big chip guy, but I try not to buy them, you know, just for many reasons. And then I think we were, you know, you would kind of talk to me and say like, hey, just

try the chips, you only live once, try the chips. And then we went online to find these chips and a bag of them on Amazon was $43. So some sort of limited edition hype beast drip chip that you had to line up for. Jordan, I just want to say, am I successful in my field? Yes. I'd say so. Am I in the podcasting hall of fame? I don't know.

Why don't you ask that trophy behind me? Sure. But I'm not $43 bag of chips rich. Hey, Little League trophy. Is Jesse the podcasting hall of fame? $43 bag of chips rich a little league trophy is Jeff The podcasting all of aim a perfect attendance ribbon I'm not $43 bag of chips successful, which is how I ended up on Walmart comm where they were the standard price They were offered at the standard price and while I was there I thought in order to get free shipping I would order a variety of bags of chips.

I just noticed how many weird types of chips there were available on this internet website. I thought I'd order them sent to your Airbnb and that you could enjoy them. Just enjoy the variety of possibilities that man's ingenuity and God's gifts have given us. Yes. And it turns out that the order for the ruffles just got canceled right away. Yeah. So these chips continue to elude me, but I'm not here to tear you down for that because you fucked that up. I want to celebrate you for all the wonderful chips that I did

receive. I mentioned them before. Pringles Mingles. This is a, I wouldn't call this a chip, this is kind of like a Pringles branded pirate booty. It's a puff. And the ones you sent me were Pickle and Ranch. These are great. I ate them in one day. Stan That's the way to do it, Jordan. That's the correct number of days. You don't want them to get mushy. No, you don't. You gotta get them while they're fresh.

And you know, I didn't have any chip clips laying around, so the most sensible thing to do is to eat the whole fucking bag of these delicious, delicious puffs. You also sent some Pringles Hot Ones branded like the YouTube show where celebrities eat hot wings. And Jordan, I was really excited to order these because they're sort of a celebration of my relative lack of success in the field of interviewing celebrities. Right, because, you know, as we mentioned, you're doing very well, trophies and everything, you do not have a branded Pringle. No, I do not have a branded Pringle.

And I'm sure it fucking kills you. I'm sure it fucking kills you. I'm coming up on 25 years in the game, Jordan. We started the Sound of Young America 25 years ago and I still don't have a... Jordan, I don't even have a branded Lays. Yeah, yeah, sorry. I'm sorry. It must kill you. God, it's fucking tearing me up inside, dude. I don't even have a mother goose sub brand You don't even have an utz You're a yet's with no what's I know, but I think the one I really wanted to talk about the one that Surprised me the most was something called hangry outlaw snacks.

Outlaw snacks spelled with an X. These are chips with lore. These feature a character, so it's an all black bag, matte black, murdered out. Right. And it features a character on above the the logo that says hangry outlaw snacks. Yeah. That I would describe as sort of somewhere in between the early 1990s extreme comic book characters Cable and Lobo. So I went on the outlaw stacks website and I guess each chip is branded with a different character, and I think what the Outlaw Snacks people said to their artist is, give me the Guardians of the Galaxy, but make it so I don't get sued. Can we get as close to each of the Guardians of the Galaxy as possible without getting

sued? Maybe they said to the artist, give us the Guardians of the Galaxy as possible without getting sued. Maybe they said to the artist, give us the Guardians of the Galaxy. The artist said, well, honey, we have the Guardians of the Galaxy at home. We have the outlaw snacks. And so the chips you sent me were the ones that belong to the character Hangry, who's like a cyber muscle man, and his flavor is crazy queso, and this is his lore from the website. That's also on the back.

For years, the brute force of Hangry was set aside for a peaceful life in his outworld home. He spent his days working the land, cultivating the queso cheese flavor his planet is renowned for. That is until the villainous- Wait, can I go all the time out here? Can I pause this? Yeah. He grows queso flavoring?

I guess. Is that a... Chips are like, dusted with the queso? So I guess it's a... I'm sorry, I'm just kind of picturing how you work the land to get cheese flavor. It's the spice melange of his planet. It's how they achieve time travel. They give it to the navigators anyway. That is until the villainous Spicy Sosa robbed the entire system of all the flavors, including Hangry's beloved Crazy Queso. Hangry tried to stop her but was captured by Spicy Sosa's henchmen.

Soon after, Kid Dynamo, that's their fake Chris Pratt character, Kid Dynamo raided the freighter transporting the Crazy Queseso and found Hangry locked in the bounty. Kid immediately saw Hangry as more than just a friend than foe, unlocking him and his ravenous quest for justice. Oh my God, what's going to happen next? I have to eat these chips to find out. Can I just say, Jordan, I'm looking at the description on the page that you sent me and

our guest. Yeah, it's in there in the chat if anybody's curious what hangry looks like. So crazy queso is so crazy delicious that after you try it, well, you may just lose all control. Just ask Hangry who destroys everything that gets between him and his beloved crazy queso. Children, dogs, doesn't matter. That's why he's not married. All his relationships destroyed by getting in between him and his beloved crazy queso, Jordan.

I tried these and you know, just given the like branding, you know, using of an X, I was thinking these, you know, it was going to be like a Flamin' Hot Cheeto kind of a challenge thing that a teenager would like. Crazy queso chips, surprisingly mild and pleasant, very eatable, very snackable. Yeah, not that crazy at all. It's the light, like a Dorito with a light cheese flavor, very, actually. Can I ask you a very sincere question about these chips, Jordan? Let's say something was standing between you and your beloved crazy queso chips. Yeah.

Would you destroy it? Oh, absolutely. I would kill it. Great. Just wanted to check in. Kill it and drink its blood. Just wanted to check in. Kill it and drink its blood. Just wanted to check in. Let's introduce our guest on the program. Our guest on the program is legendary standup comic. Now an acclaimed musician as well. Her brand new album of songs is called Lucky Gift. She's also known as one of the greatest graduates of San Francisco School of the Arts, Margaret Cho. Hi, Margaret, how are you?

Hi, I'm great. I'm getting hungry looking at this chip bag. It's got kind of like, it's got, see, it feels like there's protein in it. He's so buff. Yes. I think I, having eaten the one bag, I am a lot more jacked and veiny than I used to be. I don't know if you can see on Zoom, but I'm positively bursting with veins. Like there, it's like, it's like covered with pre-workout. Yes.

And all the, and queso spices. Uh-huh. It has destroyed my testicles. There's taurine in it. It's very, I mean, there's like, it's kind of a kind of energy branded. Yeah. Caffeine. It's like, yeah. There's three categories on the website. Outlaw Snacks is the title here. And then three categories. One is store locator. One is flavors. One is outlaw life.

So that's the culture that they're, I think they're, you know, maybe they have events, maybe they have in-store like tastings, events? Fight clubs, in-store fight clubs. Yeah, they should. Weigh-ins? Sure, just characters weigh in-store fight clubs. Yeah, they should. Weigh-ins. Sure, just characters weigh in each other. Yeah.

Margaret, are you a snacker? Do you snack? I do. I have a really intense relationship now with Cheez-It. I think when people go to chips, I really go to Cheez-It's and Cheez-It's actually have a lot of different flavors and the newest one I'm really into is the white cheddar ridges. It's like corrugated cardboard,

but it's like a chip. But it's not a chip. It's Cheez-Its, which is just like it's a cracker. But Taco Bell also has, I got into it because a few months ago, Taco Bell had a collab I got into it because a few months ago, Taco Bell had a collab with Cheez-Its. So they replaced their tortillas, some of them, with Cheez-Its, like giant Cheez-Its. So you could get like their tostadas, but instead of on a tortilla, you get it on a Cheez-It. And it was so good, like these giant Cheez-Its, which would melt and fall apart very quickly. So you had to eat them in your car right away or as soon as you got them. Or I don't know. I've never really eaten at the Adobe actual Taco Bell.

You know, like- Do Taco Bells even have seating anymore or are they just assuming you're eating it in your car? I always eat in my car. I think they let you eat it on the floor. Yeah. Yeah. You can just splay out if you want to. You get to probably eat it in the

bathroom if you're quick about it. I think that's taco, the buildings have changed. They used to be in these kind of adobe-like facades. Right, they used to have bell towers. Yeah, they made you feel like you were really south of the border. Yes. Eating authentic south of the border cuisine. Like little Alamos. Yes, little Alamos. I think as graduates of California public schools, all three of us, we probably all remember when we studied Taco Bells in fifth grade. Yeah, we would make a little Taco Bell out of graham crackers.

Yes. But I do have a Cheez-Its fascination. So I'm fond of Goldfish also. Okay. They also have different kinds of Cheez-Its and Goldfish and they'll have a pretzel Goldfish every now and again. I love those pretzel ones. They're very good. Very, very good.

Margaret, can I tell you, I'm right there with you on Cheez-Its. Yeah. I fucking love Cheez-Its. It's so good. there with you on Cheez-Its. I fucking love Cheez-Its. In fact, I will spend, I will go to Costco and I will spend a solid five minutes, a literal five minutes, looking at that giant box of Cheez-Its with two bags inside, thinking about what will happen to me and my body if I buy it. Yeah. Like I will replace meals with just fistfuls of cheez-its if they're in my house because I love them so much. So good.

And they're satisfying cause they've got so much fat inside. Unlike most carb, carby things, they really sit in the pile at the bottom of your stomach. Yeah. There is a little bit of protein in there. They're, I mean, they're just savory, they're salty, but they're not too salty. Like chips, I think I can get overdone with salt and I feel so salted up. But I don't like the, have you gone on, have you traipsed through the meadows of all of the different kinds of Cheez-Its? Because I'm only a classic Cheez-It person. Miss me with the extra crispy Cheez-Its and the white Tabasco. There's like a Tabasco

Cheez-It now. There's a Tabasco Cheez-It's very good. Yeah, the extra extra cheesy I love. I love like when you go into the white cheddar region. That's really that that's where I'm stuck. I don't think I could go back to a regular Cheez-It unless it's the giant Cheez-It to talk about. I have to sort of stick with the white cheddar. I'm really on that white cheddar now. That is a case like a golden Oreo for me where the variant I think is better than the original. Usually I think the variant, you know, it's like fun and you try it and it's cute and if you're a fan it's like fun to try new ones but you know the OG is the OG. But I do think in some cases the variant, you know, they just kind of kicks the ass of the original and

Yeah for me, that's the golden Oreo. It's very good. The vanilla golden Oreo is very very good I agree with that Wholeheartedly, I think I think Oreos in general I can give a pass but I do love a golden Oreo There's just something about it. It's just so good. It's more sophisticated, more grown up. It's kind of French. I've put away childish things. Hello, would you like a golden Oreo, Jordan?

Why yes I would, snobby French waiter with a towel draped over your arm. It's very adult. Hello, it is under this silver bell. That reminds me of the 90s dessert, is it called the Vianetta? Do you remember? It was an ice cream cake that was like really fancy. You would probably serve it with General Foods International Coffee. It has like waves, waves of chocolate shell inside of it. Yeah.

And it would be served like with a proper cake, what is it? Trowel or whatever they have. It's called a cake trowel. Yeah. Like a masonic kind of cutting device, you know, very, very formal. And it's in the, I don't think it it exists anymore. Or my, I don't know. I haven't looked for it. It seems like it's Pepperidge Parms product, but I don't think so. It was very highfalutin. I mean, I think everything old is new again. You can get clearly Canadian and New York seltzer at the corner store again. So I don't see why we can't have access to Vianetta. Yeah, delicious.

We really, for a time in the culture, we really gave it to French waiters, didn't we? We really like, were very obsessed with taking down snobby French waiters. They had been giving it to us for like a hundred years. That's true. With other rules and making us put on a jacket and... Making us look up their noses. There is a restaurant near my house that for a little while was my like date night restaurant with my wife. It's in Eagle Rock, California, Northeast LA called Cafe Beaujolais. Cafe Beaujolais was nice for the last time I went,

I was disappointed, but for a long time it was like, you know, your classic French bistro fare, you know, in a restaurant with earthy, colorful walls and like big posters from the 1920s of like French liquor brands. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. But the distinguishing characteristic of this French restaurant was that the waiters were all handsome French guys that seemed mad at you. Okay, so you've actually had a snobby French waiter. They don't just exist in broad comedies. They were like a little earthy to be a classic snobby French waiter. They just seemed like they were gonna fuck your wife. Like, they were just gonna like, it was gonna happen

somehow. Like you weren't gonna see it coming and then all of a sudden, you've been cucked by this waiter, you know what I mean? Like it would catch you from like just outside your peripheral vision. Right. That's the... and you would go the whole entire meal without going to the bathroom because you were afraid it was gonna happen while you were in the bathroom? Well I would go the entire meal, I would go the entire meal without leaving the table and going to the bathroom, yes. Okay, but you would take a dump in your Depends, right? If I needed to. You gotta be prepared. I put something on before I go out to dinner. It's a nice date, Jordan. Sure. Well, if you don't shit in your adult diaper, the waiter's

going to fuck your wife. Look, just do the math, Jordan. I've seen those minions memes you've been posting on Facebook. Two plus two equals four, Jordan. Put on the depends or the waiter's going gonna fuck your wife. Oh, I know. This is basic stuff, man. Basic stuff. That's why I put up the memes. Margaret, are you also someone who wants to try all the newest Taco Bell shit?

That is a real fandom, the Taco Bell fandom. I think my ears only prick up when there's a Cheez-Its. Okay. But I did get excited when they had a chicken nugget. I do pay attention. I do. I am aware, like I am aware that if when Burger King rolls out a lotte, you know, like I'm like aware of the a lotte burger and I'm-

Wait, is there a lote at Burger King? It's very good. Well, they don't have it. They have an a lote whopper, which is far superior to the run-of-the-mill regular whopper. But when they have they have corn in it, it is very very good. The limited edition summer coming up. So it'd be coming up. Very very good. I highly recommend it. So yeah, I do pay attention to some of the collabs and a lot of a lot of the promotions. I'm gonna get a folding chair right now and put it in front of the Burger King and wait for the Elote Whopper like it was sneakers. It does kind of

make sense. I feel like Burger King is our nation's number one mayonnaise restaurant. Right, yes. Yes. They do buy most of the mayonnaise industry is kept kept afloat by Burger King. Well, it's a very Miracle Whip driven cuisine. It's a Miracle Whip forward cuisine. Everything has like, their mayonnaise is very sweet and so I don't know if it's actually like a an aioli or like a classic like French mayonnaise it I think there's so much corn syrup in it that it's gone to the Miracle website. I will not go to the bathroom while I'm at a Burger King because I'm afraid that creepy King's gonna fuck my wife. I don't even have that guy anymore. Is that a 10 year old commercial?

You're not even married. Yeah, that doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Do you mean the white head, the large white head in a suit? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Got his own Xbox game for a while.

It's kind of like, it's like a Slender Man kind of, but with a big head. Yes. Yeah. Slender Man, giant head. Irresistible. Yes, yes. Slender man, giant head. Irresistible to wives. Absolutely. Irresistible to wives. I'll say this, to my credit, before I was married, I fucked Macktonite's wife.

But he was like, he's into it. That was like you arranged that with Macktonite, right? Oh yeah. No, he's super chill about that kind of stuff. I mean, he was out at the piano bar and his wife and I were in the back room. Nice. So it's not the thing where Mack tonight wants to watch. He just is okay with his...

He had us on FaceTime, which he had advanced access to in the mid-1990s. Oh, Mack tonight. Let me just summarize what went on. Well Jordan, if I can help here. Yeah, sure. He had gotten access to FaceTime from Mack's headroom. Yes, yes, absolutely. If you need to summarize it for the audience in case you missed me Jordan. Mack tonight got access to FaceTime from Mack's Headroom and you had sex with his wife and

he was watching on FaceTime while at the piano bar. Yeah, with Mac, I had sex with Max Tonight's wife. I did not have sex with Max Headroom's wife. Yeah. Well, that guy's never getting, he can't tie that guy down. He's a bachelor for life. No, that guy's fucking his way across all the cyber dimensions. Sure.

This guy, you get this guy in a cyber dimension. You know what I mean? So quick question. I remember Max Headroom, but what was that? Was it a battery commercial? Was it a movie? Was it? I think it was a commercial, wasn't it? It was a so many things. It was one of these things that when we still had a semblance of a monoculture, something

and I'm thinking specifically here of the California raisins. Right. Yeah. Could seize control of the psyche. And suddenly, instead of being a commercial for raisins and specifically a maybe racist commercial for raisins, it was all of a sudden a maybe racist series of short films on network television. Christmas special too, I think, right? Christmas special?

Christmas special, I believe that is correct. And many t-shirts. And I think Max Headroom was something like that. Max Headroom was in commercials, but there was also a Max Headroom television show. Okay. Max Headroom was... Yeah, commercials for Pepsi, I think? Does that sound right? It sounds right, yeah. It seems like it's Pepsi.

I don't think it was for Coca-Cola. And there was also a fake Max Headroom takedown of a local television station. So there was like a transmission where somebody hacked early hacking in a Max Headroom rubber mask and was Max Headroom for several minutes during a news broadcast. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, I think I maybe remember an NPR podcast about that. Yeah, that was yeah, I feel like hacking into all TV.

I mean, just a fucking Joker ass move and I get happened one time for real Yeah happened one time so there those are two different things But that that incident had nothing to do with the iconic what max headroom when you think about it I do think it was a Pepsi ad though. Yes. I have an important update regarding max headroom. Yes Thank you. Max Headroom began on British television. Wow. In a cyberpunk TV movie on Channel 4.

Okay. Called Max Headroom 20 Minutes Into the Future. Max Headroom then became a television show in the UK called the Max Headroom show, then became the spokesperson for the new Coke. Oh, what's for Coke? Okay. Wow. Then became... Margaret, you partial credit, partial credit.

I thought... Then became a TV drama on ABC called Max Headroom. Wow, that's right. I remember the show. They got a second season. Yeah, I remember the show. Well, there you go. The 90s, they were a wild time.

And he would glitch. And he would glitch, yeah. Jeffrey Tambor was on the show. And so was Charles Rocket from Saturday Night Live. Oh, Charles Rocket. Charles Rocket. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house.

I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house. I went to a ha. And so was Charles Rocket from Saturday Night Live. Oh, Charles Rocket. Charles Rocket. I went to a ha-ha party at Charles Rocket's house and there was a trapeze on the ceiling that was tied up very, very high. So I was like, what do they get up to when people are not here?

Yeah. When people are not here, they're swinging from the the ceiling fucking Margaret shit Margaret you went to San Francisco School of the Arts correct You must have known people with circus skills Yes, I did actually I did know a lot of people circus skills But it just surprised me that they were that was at Charles Rockets house who didn't strike me as a trapeze swinger. Because of his ignominious firing from Saturday Night Live?

No, I don't know. I don't know. He was a gentle, lovely man. Very... That was a really good party because I also met several members of Devo and one of them, That was a really good party because I also met several members of Devo and one of them, I think it was Jerry, Jerry Casal, made me a very strong martini. He's very exciting. That rules. That's a feather in your cap. It's a good party. It's a good party.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of secret trapeze freaks out there. And I say that in a very positive way. I mean, nothing but love for my trapeze freaks. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. Margaret, we're doing this on Zoom, and every once in a while in your Zoom window, I catch the eyes of an animal. Do you have a pet or is something broken into your house? No, it's my werewolf cat, Uju. Oh, come on. And half of his face is black leather and half, so he looks like a little werewolf.

It's a little bit hard to see him because he's in the dark. So he looks like a specter. That's him. I was wondering, am I gonna say that and Margaret's gonna say, I don't have a pet. So raccoons have gotten in. He is like a very raccoon-like,

and then I have this dog. Oh my god Have you been you just raised your arm like the dog has been there the whole time he's been here the whole time Yeah, he's been here the whole time. What a fun surprise Yes, just the sheer pleasure for me of having a chunky white chihuahua into the frame Though it's the opposite of a jump scare. That's what that was. A jump delight. Margaret, we know you're a musician and a comic, but have you yourself ever had any circus skills? I have tried to take a couple of classes and trapeze is very, very hard. I don't have the arm strength really. It's a very athletic thing.

And then in the very early 90s, I was preparing to do an episode of Circus with the Stars when they had it. And then they abruptly cut off production because they couldn't get insurance. So they actually canceled the whole show before we even started, but I was going to be shot

out of a cannon. No way. Yeah. So how do you prepare to be shot out of a cannon? What's the first step? We were just like going into initial meetings about it and they were saying, well, it's pretty simple. You just go and you have to hold your stomach tight and just have to

like go and point yourself in the direction and they'll not like shoot you out. And you know, they sort of described it and they said, well, we'll have to get into it. But then I think they just couldn't ensure it. But I had watched a video of Carol Channing doing it. And I thought, how hard can it be if Carol Channing's doing it? And she jumped out and she had the helmet on, she gets shot at a cannon and then goes into the big foam pad and she was fine. So I was like, not challenged. I really wanted to do it, but they canceled the whole show before we even got into doing

the stunt. That is why. Well, hey, if you're out there and you're listening and you produce TV specials, Margaret Cho will still like to be shot out of a cannon. I would love to. I loved all those like weird athletic kind of shows, like Circus of the Stars is one, also Battle of the Network stars,

which we don't have anymore. Plus there's not really, I mean, you know, what would you do? Battle of the Streamers stars? You could do Amazon, you could do Bosch versus Alan coming from the Traders. Yeah, I mean, I guess you could do something like the Streamers. Amazon versus Peacock. Yeah. Something. But, you know, it just, it doesn't really exist in the, anymore in the same way. But I remember how popular that was in the 1980s when you way. But I remember how popular that was in the 1980s when you would see like your network stars kind of fighting with the three's company

fighting, you know, who I don't even know Benson would it be the same network wings. I'm not sure but they were so exciting. Margaret was it I don't remember I remember the idea of battle of the network stars, but I do't remember. I remember the idea of Battle of the Network Stars, but I do not remember the actual show. When you say fighting, was there violence involved? There was no violence. There was, it was like a swimming competition. You were doing like, basically like volleyball or maybe some sort of like a three-legged race. There were some combinations of like things you would do at summer camp and also like Olympic events, like swimming or a relay race.

And then, but it's, it's 2D from the facts of life. Yeah. Then they would have like actual some like games. I think they, and then, then you go into the sort of MTV ones where they would have rock stars doing the same sort of athletics as well. That goes into the 90s. With Jenny McCarthy. I'm a very big fan of Celebrity Family Feud.

Maybe that's the last bastion of that sort of thing. That's a very good show as well. I did that once with my family and my mother was so petrified. She did not want to ask her any questions or she could not. She was just, I never said, my mother's a very large, you know, she's a very forceful person. I've never seen her so small. She's never shut up in her life until we did celebrity family feud and she did not want to speak. Who was hosting when you did it with your mom? Was, it was Steve Harvey.

Amazing. That's the dream. I mean, Steve Harvey, we've often discussed on this show, Steve Harvey maybe holds some less than ideal perspectives on human morality, but he's about as good as he gets when it comes to hosting the family feud. You really can't argue with his performance as the host of the Family Feud.

He's very good. He's very charming. And I know Steve in such a different capacity because we were comics in the 90s and we had TV shows on ABC at the same time. And we'd have to do these terrible gigs where we'd go and we'd have to do these terrible gigs where we'd go and we'd have to do shows just for the network affiliates, like, you know, all of the different affiliates in every city. So we'd have to do these awful stand-up shows for people who just so humorless station managers of local television stations. And they would just be sitting there and we, none of us wanted to go on with me and Steve Harvey and Ralph Harris and Jim Carrey. And none of us wanted to go on because we would all just bomb and it would be like, so the worst. What was Jim Carrey doing there? A bombing,

just like us trying to do comedy. For In Living Color, right? Was he? I don't know. I don't know exactly what it was for. It was for some kind of promotion for station affiliates, but it was so bad. And this was like in 1993, such a terrible time. Would you get paid for those, or was it like you had to show you're obligated to do this? No, we're obligated. You would have to do a number of things

for the network affiliates. Television was such a different time. So much of it was you representing the network and going and schmoozing with affiliates, which was their franchises. It was so weird. You were doing it locally. Like it wasn't even at a big fly in or something. It wasn't at the annual affiliates conference. Like you had to go to Philadelphia to do it. We'd have to go to like key cities like New Orleans, where they would have all of

the affiliates come in. So it was never we wouldn't do it locally, but all of the people like through the southeast would come. So we'd be like in Orlando or New Orleans or something like that, where all of the people like through the southeast would come. So we'd be like in Orlando or New Orleans or something like that where all of the people sort of around there in the region would come. I have not stopped thinking about years ago. I had Ishmael Butler of diggable planets on bullseye. Oh, wow. He described how they got signed. And it was essentially, you know, they're passing out demo tapes forever. And then like the way that they ended up getting signed was just going into a studio in front

of it wasn't LA Reid, but whatever the LA Reid type guy was of the label that they were on. They like went in and just wrapped in front of a guy in his office for an hour. Wow. Acapella just wrapping in front of a guy. That's how you got a record deal in 1991 or whatever it was, was wrapping in front of a guy. That's incredible. And I immediately pictured you and Steve Harvey and Jim Carrey-Margaret

just in a guy's office in Des Moines. He's like, well, show me what you've got. Friday nights at nine. Yeah. Not that dissimilar from that. You know, that's how I know. I always think about Steve in those times. It's hard for me to visualize him as the icon that he is now.

It's hard for me to separate the two because I just know him as the guy that we're both like not wanting to do these sets that were just always so terrible. Yeah, I believe that. Did you what other? Well first of all, we said there's no shows like that Jordan, but I wanted to take this opportunity to congratulate past Jordan, just go guest W. Kamau Bell on defeating past Jordan Jesse Goh guest Robin Thede on past Jordan Jesse Goh guest Ken Jennings smash hit syndicated television program Jeopardy. Kamau won a million dollars for Oakland and Mobile Alabama classrooms.

Thede made it all the way to the finals and put up a mighty fight. And also there was a third guy. I don't know who that guy was. It was a guy whose name wasn't immediately familiar. Probably on a Hulu show. Probably a guy from Hulu. He's probably very good on this Hulu show and I'm going to get to it. There's just a lot of TV.

Maybe he's on freeform. What is that? I'm not a hundred percent sure, but it probably has the most popular show on cable about Cowboys, question mark? Probably. Oil fields? Listen, we need to take a break. Let's find out what Freeform is and then let's come back for a little bit more. We'll be back in just a second on Jordan Jesse Goh. It's Jordan Jesse Goh. I am Jesse Thorn, America's radio sweetheart Jordan Morris boy detective well Jordan you may have heard of our podcast podcast movie movie

podcast also we sometimes talk about TV shows not only have I heard it but I'm on it oh you're one of the hosts of it I am one of the hosts are you Jordan from that I am yeah wait are you I'm just trying to eat my meal in, are you also the Jordan from Good Mythical Morning? Yeah. I never put it together. I never put it together. Thank you. Are you the free with that, Jordan?

I'm just trying to have a meal with my family. I'm just trying to have a meal with my family. Yes, that's me. Thank you. I love you, fans. Are you the guy who writes the comic book who wrote Bubble and Youth Group and the Godzilla comic? It's hard to specialize.

All the other. And you're Michael Jordan too from the Chicago Bull know. Yeah. The Godzilla comic. It's hard to specialize. All the other stuff. And you're Michael Jordan too from the Chicago Bulls? Yeah. And I'm just trying to have a meal with my family. Okay. Don't ask me about Space Jam. I just can't believe. I'm going to go home and tell my wife I met the River Jordan.

She is not going to believe. She's not going to believe that I met the real River Jordan. Yeah. Is that enough Jordan things? Yeah, no, that's perfect. Good ref River Jordan. Yeah. Is that enough Jordan things? Yeah, no, that's perfect. Good riff, man. Thanks. That's why they call you the Riff Master.

That's why they call this show Riff Tracks. Podcast Movie Movie Podcast, and also sometimes we talk about television shows, is our new members exclusive podcast that is all about movies and television shows is our new members exclusive podcast that is all about Movies and television shows about podcasts and podcasting or that feature podcasters We've got a lot of movies planned. Our second episode is out now. It is part of our project to cover a whole shit ton of episodes of Alex Inc because you were so nice to us in the Max Fun Drive. You were so nice. And apparently you love listening to us talk about something we hated because we're watching the shockingly bad sitcom Alex Inc. Now here's the thing. Did we... Okay, so we watched the first episode of Alex Inc. starring

Zach Braff and we hated it. I mean, it's not a spoiler alert. It was a terrible show in a lot of different very bad ways. But, you know, I think it's fair to say that a lot of sitcoms have sort of awkward pilots, you know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, like Like a lot of shows that pilot is more about sort of setting up the situation, setting up that he's, you know, lying to his wife, setting up that his children talk like weird adults, all these elements that are, that are necessary to understand the situations of the sitcom in the future,

right? In future episodes. So just because the first episode was bad doesn't mean the second episode was bad. What means the second episode was bad is how bad it is. Yeah. So it's really bad. Really bad. Really bad. We watched it. Almost as bad as the first episode. Yeah. We'll describe it for you. MaximumFun.org slash join. That's how you hear that show and all the great bonus episodes that we've recorded over the years at all the shows here at Max Fun Record. Got a children's wax museum show. Yes, that's- Everybody knows what that is.

That's a plot point of episode two. MaximumFun.org slash join. Yeah, and hey, if you like comic book events, boy, I got a couple for you On May 18th, I'll be in Albany, California at the Albany Comics and Fandom Expo That's at the Albany Library and Community Center Jordan you're fucking with every fucking library in Northern, California, baby Yeah, hey if you if you're a librarian in Northern, California, I will come to your library. I'll do it I'll just jump in the fucking car and drive up there Are you gonna go visit my mom or do you only go as far as El Cerrito?

Because El Cerrito is all that's gonna stand between you and my mom listen if If Judy has a nearby library that I could visit, okay I can swing by it'd be nice of her to come to the library, but I'll make a special stop for Judy Albany library and community center. It's gonna be a really fun to come to the library, but I'll make a special stop for Judy. Albany Library and Community Center, it's going to be a really fun day. 10 to 5, May 18th, there's going to be panels, there's going to be workshops, there's going to be a fucking soft serve truck. What? Yeah, get your ass out there to the Albany Comics and Fandom Expo at the Albany Library

and Community Center on May 18th. I'll see you there. You know all the fucking ice cream trucks would go through my neighborhood all the time. Yeah. When I used to record in the front of the house you could hear them go by. People would write us like during the pandemic people will be like why the fuck is there constantly ice cream truck music on Jesse's show? None of them got a fucking soft serve machine. You can buy as many fucking SpongeBob gumball eyeballs as you want. Warped Sonic the Hedgehogs. But you can't buy a single fucking, if you want toasty locos or whatever, you're good

to hook up, but there's no soft serve machine in there. I just want some soft serve, I want a cone. Great kind of ice cream. And hey, if you're in Canada, I'll also be at the Toronto Comic Arts Festival, June 7th and 8th. That's at their new location at 50 Carlton Street, and it's free. So come on down to the Toronto Comic Arts Festival, June 7th and 8th. I'll be there.

Are you concerned that you're going to have any problems with the promoters given your famous beef with Drake? You know, I think a little like I wasn't gonna say anything about this but me and Drake will squash the beef on the show floor. Thank You Cardinal Official for brokering the truce between Jordan and Drake. Cardi, you put your Cardi slang to good use in this terrifying international incident Yeah, come on down now Canadians can stop boycotting American stuff. Yeah Everything will be fine

After June 7th and June 8th. Okay, we'll be back in just a second on Jordan Jessica It's Jordan Jessego. I'm Jesse Thorne, America's Radio Sweetheart. Jordan Morris, Boy Detective. I'm Margaret Cho, Lucia's mother. The dog is back. We love the dog. I love the dog. Marc, we should say during the break you revealed to us that you were on that season of Celebrity Jeopardy.

Yes, I was in the semi-final where Kamau won and was able to advance to the final final. He won handily. I could not beat him. He was really, really, really great. But I did okay. I did okay up to then. I had three daily doubles where I was able to answer all of the questions.

So I was able to advance quickly and I studied really hard. I love Jeopardy. So for me, it's challenged because it's really in the way that they write the clues. You have to really listen and you have to remember the clue header. So you have to factor in what the header is to make sure you listen to every part of the details within the clue. What's the first step to studying for Jeopardy? Is it just like sitting down with an encyclopedia

Britannica and just... Mary Flauhrt No, I watched 50 hours of gameplay from the 1980s to the 90s all through Alex Trebek and then, you know, through the modern show as we know it now with Ken and all of the big tournaments. And I watched a bunch of the juniors tournaments and the celebrity tournaments over the years. And over time, you see how the clues will trip you up and the titling, the header of the clues. The title is very important. What they call the clues, the sort of the category is very important. So You can see how they will trick you and they're all

trick clues I Feel like it probably feels so fucking good to get a daily double, right? You know, like I I bet I bet there's just this surge of pride when that happens Yeah, and then the agony of defeat sure The absolute agony of defeat where I should have known that. But I didn't follow my own advice by listening to the clues. Margaret, have you seen the episode of Jeopardy where another past Jordan Jesse Goh guest competing in standard Jeopardy, Louis Frittell, gets a daily double right and throws up some snaps? I did not see that, but I know Louis said I think he's great and I'm now going to have

to watch that. Yeah, a real hilarious genius and one of the internet's greatest gifts. Yes, absolutely. We celebrate him. Yeah. What? Okay, so in watching the Celebrity Jeopardy's, all I really know about Celebrity Jeopardy is I have this vague sense that Andy Richter and the guy from Sugar

Ray were good at it. Past Jordan Jesse Goh guest Andy Richter, not past Jordan Jesse Goh guest, guy from Sugar Ray. We'd love to have him. Maybe. Would we like to have the guy from Sugar Ray? What are his current takes? Sugar Ray, if you're listening, call us. Let us know what your current takes are. We'll sort through that a little bit and decide if you can come on our show. Will it benefit you in any way? No. And you know what? I'm going to extend this to Adam Duritz from Counting Crows. If you're listening, let us know what your takes are. We're going to want to hear about your takes first. Guy from Third Eye Blind,

we're going to want to hear your takes first, but then we'll decide if we can move forward. It may very well be a yes, you know, it might be a yes. It's hard to say for sure. Margaret, did you see any celebrities that you were excited were good at Celebrity Jeopardy? I mean, I'm sure of course Patton is going to be the best. Patton is so genius and in so many levels of genius,

it's not just, it's just not just in comedy, but in everything, all of entertainment, all film, all of comic books, all of literature, everything. He's a brilliant, brilliant guy. So I always thought he would be great. Lisa Ann Walter, who is another past winner. Yeah, I watched her season. She was great. Yeah, she's incredible. Just like she is, her brain is so fast and so efficient. So she, her precision is really, it's really impressive. But yeah, those are my

favorite plays. Oh, Ike Barinholtz as well. Another very, very impressive champion. Ike Barinholtz will have you on the show. You don't even need to give us a... He's a very funny guy too. In fact, keep your takes to yourself. Reveal your takes to us. I was going to say reveal them to us on the show and we'll react in real time. Oh, wow. I bet they're good. I bet they're good. He seems like he would have good takes. He seems like he would have good takes. He seems like a kind of guy with good takes. Did you have to learn?

Did you have to practice pressing? I thought the main thing about going on Jeopardy was practicing pressing the button. It is the hardest thing. And I jumped the gun. That's where I lost because I pressed it too fast. You cannot press it too fast. You must wait until the lights go off the screen or else it'll get stuck and won't give you a solid chance.

It's not a constant press. It's a press at the right... Because I feel like I see some people tapping it and you're saying maybe that's not the way to go. No, you have to intuitively know when to tap. Like it's like a very, it's very specific. You get a sweet spot, a rhythm going and then you can get it. But I never quite got the rhythm correct. I feel like people buy or make their own buzzers, like get them from, you know, our slash Jeopardy contest people on Reddit. Like I think, you know, our friend Elliot Kalin was on regular Jeopardy. Yes.

Elliot Kalin, one of the hosts of the Flophouse. And I think if I remember correctly, that was like the thing that was giving Elliot anxiety was the other two things. One was sometimes he would like, he got called in and then sent home a couple of times, I think just cause of like, it was COVID and they were like trying to figure out

how they were shooting things and whatever. But like it was the pressing the button, like the pressing the button is like the big thing of Jeopardy. Yeah. It's the hardest thing. And I think mythologically, the mythology or the lore surrounding it is that the podium, um, farthest from Ken is the one that you want. You can't select your podium. It's chosen randomly. And they do switch them on every competition,

every show they switch them up. So you can't know. But supposedly the one that's farthest away from Ken is the one with the most accessible buzzer. What were your talk show anecdotes for Celebrity Jeopardy? Mine were how did you study? How did you prepare? And so I told them what I told you, the anecdote that I watched 50 hours, which is true Getting some multiple uses out of that Very efficient I was me I would have saved it for Fallon, but it's fine. That's right. That's right. I can use it again there Why not?

Well, he listens to this show So then he will know. He'll know. And then I talked about how I was very starstruck by Ken Jennings, because I am. I find him quite, to me, he's a real, very bona fide celebrity. I don't really get excited too much about celebrities as I guess they are. I don't know.

I've been to Charles Rockets' house. A guy from Devo made me a martini. I mean, really. I mean, because I think because of my entry point in Hollywood is So I was in the age where you would see Milton Berle around Wow sure don't you dare park in his parking space if you're going to the Friars Club You'll never hear the end of it. Oh, yeah I learned that one's a hard way. Famously giant dick. Yes. So I'm in Hollywood around this time where there's a lot of like really, really, really old famous people. So

I think like it's hard to make me starstruck, but I was very starstruck by Ken Jennings. And so I told him so. And I was very amused by that, I think. Are you a Wheel of Fortune watcher or is it only the classy one? Oh, you know what? I've never really watched the Wheel of Fortune. So no, but I think I mean, I would like to try my hand at it. To me, that seems like it would be a little bit easier. Maybe? I don't know. Price is right?

I've never watched that. What did you watch? Margaret, let me ask you this specific question. As a road comic, when you were working the road, I'm talking about pre-consistent free access to internet in hotel rooms, what was the thing that you watched in a hotel room or did when you were in a place where there wasn't much to do or it was the second day and you had already done the one thing that they had there to do that was special to that place. Well, I think it was probably Ricky Lake or any of those like Jerry Springer. Sally Jessie?

Sally Jessie, for sure. And then maybe, of course, Oprah. I also love a forensic files Or an autopsy with dr. Michael Baden. I love that one the Yeah, any kind of like sex real sex on HBO I love those when you would get HBO in a hotel room. That was a big deal. Bring that back Yeah, bring real sex was always really like very lurid. And really interesting, like there's stuff that people were doing. I loved Hookers on the Point.

Oh, sure. Yeah, do you like it? Do you like a taxicab confession? I love a taxicab confessions. That to me is so the best. What is Hookers on the Point? Hookers on the Point was a documentary series that was about sex workers that were working in and around a certain area. I think they did it in different cities.

So they had different women that would come back. I think they did a couple of them. So there's like a few iterations of this documentary. If you really would return to the point, you would see different set of workers and there was like their interviews and sometimes you would just see them going out and going into cars with their different clients and you would have a little bit of hidden camera moment there. But yeah, it was very slice of life entertainment. Interesting. Yeah, in the very earliest iteration of the HBO app, it was called HBO Go or something, had a little tab called Late Night where you could watch the archived versions of all those

saucy late night shows. And you know, listen, now we got Max and they've replaced it all with pimple popping shows. Is that better? I don't know who can say. There's always, I mean, pimple popping is, I also love that show because that's... That is late night content for some people. It's very, well, it's all about class. That show is really class driven because you see how the lack of medical insurance... If you read Marks and Engels, Jordan.

Well, the lack of medical insurance or medical coverage for some people allows them to really suffer in silence with these skin conditions that grow worse and worse and worse over time. And really, it's a class issue. You know, people are not getting enough comprehensive health coverage to deal with dermatology, which if you don't deal with it right away, it can result in huge lipomas, huge abscesses, things that are really disfiguring. So I think that show is really so much about class

than anything else. Wow. I only recently learned that if you have PPO health insurance, I switched from a managed care health insurance to PPO health insurance like two years ago. And I had had, since I got health insurance as a 16 year old, when my when my mother got her first full-time teaching job, until 40, I had only had ever had Kaiser. I only ever had managed care and had had some good birthing experiences, some mixed experiences with neurology and no experiences with any other form of medicine because they make it impossible to access. Like you really, you got to convince 17 guys looking down their eyeglasses at you in order to visit a dermatologist in Kaiser. Then one day somebody said to me, well, you know, if you had it after I switched to the PPO, you can just go to the doctor. And I was like, you can? And I, I like had a thing that on my, on my chest or something. And

they were like, you can just go to a dermatologist. So I went to a dermatologist. Not only did they slice it out of me, but then they were just like, come back in three months. So now I just go to the dermatologist and they spray me with that freeze ray every three months. It costs like $15. It's amazing. Health insurance is great. We should give that to everybody, Margaret. We should. I agree. Why aren't we doing that?

Well, Margaret has to okay it. I okay it. I love it. We need to get to a call, but I do want to double back to the HBO late night tab for just a second, if I can. Seeing those sexy late night shows on HBO was formative for me. We didn't have it, but if I was sleeping over at Tim Cota's house, his parents had HBO, so we could like sneak a little bit of real sex.

And one of those like early, one of the early images for me is a woman on real sex doing a painting with her boobs. And when that late night tab became a thing, I'm like, I have to find the boob painting woman. Never did. Did I dream it? If anybody out there is an expert on HBO's late night content, where was the boob painting segment? It feels like that was a segment in Mondo Kane, that movie, you know, that documentary. I've never seen it. World Gone to the Dogs.

Maybe that's what maybe that's what we were watching. There was a there is a segment in Mondo Kane about nude female painting where they would take women would be dipping their boobs in paint and then painting with it. So I remember that. We had a game in our recent live show in Chicago about events at conferences. And one of them, spoiler alert, but one of them was about a real man named Pricaso. Pricaso makes paintings, but not with his boobs like a normal person. And the picture of Pricaso that is on Pricaso.com was so particular. Do you remember this picture Jordan? It's like- Yeah, I'm familiar with Percaso's work and yeah, he's a kind of, you know, like sun tarnished,

I think Australian man who looks like he's never worn sunscreen or a shirt in his life. And I think he's wearing like a pink cowboy hat and like a Speedo and I think that's his thing. He looks kind of like like what he looks like to me is like a 1992 nude blonde Liberace. Like he has a Liberace-ish quality to his face and hair, but then he also is wearing a giant pink cowboy hat and a dog collar with rhinestones on it. And he seems so cheerful. I think playing this guy is how Walton Goggins gets the Oscar.

I think the Picasso biopic, Walton Goggins will play this guy and it will be the start to the Goggins Egot. I'm calling it here. He also, I don't know if it is- Goggins Egot, Goggins Egot. Sorry, I'm warming up. I'm warming up my voice. I don't know if it is paint on his lips, but has a like a pale pink lipstick that gives him a vaguely

like it's Morgana the woman that bought the billboards to be famous right like it gives her a it gives him a very like Angelene Angelene it's like a kissing bandit, I believe. Oh, thank you. It gives him a very like 1992 fake boobs celebrity quality. Right. That I also find quite striking. Striking is the word for it. Anyway, when something momentous happens to you, like you're kissed by Morgana the kissing bandit, give us a call at 206-984-4-FUN or send us a voice memo at jjgo at MaximumFun.org, as this person has done. Hi, JJ Goh. This is David in Broomfield, Colorado, calling in with a Momentous occasion. A couple of months ago, my wife and I went to see the world famous drag queen Violet Chachki perform.

After the show, we went to a nearby cocktail bar and Violet came in and asked for a drink recommendation, which my wife provided. While my wife was getting the drinks, I was gushing to Violet about how great the show was and how much I loved her work. I started to feel a little awkward, so I said I would stop prattling on like a weird little fanboy, and she said, oh, you're fine. You're just a regular girl. Even though she said I was a regular girl, it felt like finding out I was a real princess. Well, thanks. Bye. Now, this is for folks who haven't been listening to our show for 17 years. This is a reference to some My Little Ponies that I purchased for one of my children. I would say, I mean, let's see, Gracie's 13. So this would be a full 10 years ago, maybe.

And part of the promotional copy of these My Little Ponies was that they had just found out they were real princesses. Before being packaged, immediately before being packaged, they found out that they were real princesses. And they're like, weirdly, that's what led me to be put in this plastic prison. Yeah, well, you know, we don't put, we don't put duchesses in this bubble bubble pack. And I think that that really is a powerful metaphor that we can apply to all of our lives. I mean, Jordan, we've talked a lot on this program about the liberating power of analogous. Right? Yes.

This is a time Margaret, every August, when we asked Jordan, Jesse go listeners to explore the possibilities that the world offers them. And, and it obviously, but stuff, but like, also, just the breadth of magic that you can touch if you dare. Sure. In this crazy blue marble. Yeah. And I think finding out you're a real princess is another really powerful metaphor that we should explore on Jordan. Yes.

You know? Now, what was this caller's, what is the thing that they found out that they're a normal girl? They found out they're a normal girl and not a blithering fanboy. Sure, okay. And it felt like finding out he was a real princess. Sure. Well yeah, shout out to all the normal, you know what I like about that is that it's achievable,

you know? If you're shooting to be a real princess, you might get disappointed. Sorry, you know, what I like about that is that it's achievable, you know? If you're shooting to be a real princess, you might get disappointed. Sorry, you know, like we have all the Disney movies telling us you're gonna be a real princess, but you know, chances are you're just gonna be a normal girl. But there's, I don't think there's any shame in that, you know? I think there's something kind of beautiful about being just a normal girl. Yeah, you know, there's a song by the Oakland rap group, The Coup, called Wear Clean Drawers. And there's a part where he says, tell your teacher I said princesses are evil. The way they got all their money was they killed people. I think that's true. I mean, I wouldn't think

that these ponies would ever kill anyone. They might accidentally kill someone if they like snuck up behind them and they just kicked as a reflex. Oh yeah, no, no, no. Like if they've got surprised by someone standing behind them, yeah, that is dangerous shit. You have to come, you have to approach even a Pegasus unicorn, you have to approach from the front. And ideally you have an apple to get

it. Yeah, hold your hand flat while you're feeding them too. Yeah. But yeah, I think, I think, I think just being a normal girl could be a nice goal for our audience. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know what audience? I think you are just a normal girl. Like I don't think you need to worry about being a blithering fanboy or whatever else the anxiety is causing you in your heart that is making you feel like you're different or less than. At the end of the day, audience, if you're out there, Jordan, Jesse going, by the way, this is an inspirational podcast now. If you're out there, you're just a normal girl. It's all right. Just you do you. You know what I mean? And look for passive income. Like what you want to do is make investments

in your future. And that means owning shit and exploiting others. Sure. Which, kind of a princess move though. Yeah, like maybe getting an Airbnb or something, you know? Yeah, buy a building. Put a bunch of IKEA furniture in it. Yeah, I don't know, fucking stock market or something. I don't know. Shit, Jordan, I don't know. I don't have fucking $43 chip money.

So listen, let's take a little break. Let's figure out what kind of passive income we can earn, and then let's come back and wrap it up. We'll be back in just a second on Jordan Jessica. La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. Oh my gosh, hi, it's me, Dave Holmes, host of Troubled Waters, the pop culture battle to the ego death. Okay, everybody Holmes, host of Troubled Waters, the pop culture battle to the ego death.

Okay, everybody, word association with Troubled Waters, first one to fumble loses, go. Comedy. Panel show. Guests. Celebrities. Games. Oh, sound rounds.

Improvised speeches. Puns disguised as trivia. A very niche Flash Gordon clip. Oh, Shavil Rowan. Oh, no, Riley Flash Gordon clip. Um, Javel Rowan! Ah, no, Riley, I'm sorry, she will not return our phone calls. I am afraid you're out. A girl can dream. Oh, but dreaming will not earn a girl any points.

Troubled Waters, listen on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, sleepyheads. Sleeping with Celebrities is your podcast pillow pal. We talk to remarkable people about unremarkable topics, all to help you slow down your brain and drift off to sleep. For instance, the remarkable actor Alan Tudyk. You hand somebody a yardstick after they've shopped at your general store. The store's name is constantly in your heart because yardsticks become part of the family.

Sleeping with Celebrities, hosted by me, John Moe, on MaximumFun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. Night night. It's Jordan Jessi Goh. I'm Jesse Thorne, America's Radio Sweetheart. Jordan Morris boy, detective. Margaret Cho, Gudrun's mother. Yes. The dog's back, baby. Dog, dog, dog, dog. Margaret, when you were attending Arts High School, did you take, when I was at the high school that you also attended, we had a class called Introduction to the Arts, and in Introduction to the Arts, everyone did everyone else's art. And then at the end, we did an opera, which was all the arts mixed

up together. Did you do that kind of thing when you were at School of the Arts? No, no. We didn't mix in general. None of the disciplines mixed. I mean, we had, of course, the visual arts section, we had this, the musicians and the singers, and then they had the dancers. The dancers were very serious. And then theater, which I was in, nobody mixed. Yeah, the dancers mostly stretch and smoke, mostly stretching and smoking. They're all gazelles, you know, and then the musicians who were all sort of like,

they were sort of the stoners and kind of band people. And yeah, the visual artists also, the visual artists and the musicians hung out a bit. And I think they had girlfriends that were dancers. But theater kids, we were so dorky. We would never have been allowed near any of the other disciplines. Did you sing as a teen? I did not sing as a teen, but I did sing as a child.

And I played instruments as a child, like a very young child. So I played piano at like five, six, seven, eight, you know, until I was in my early teens and then I sang in a little band when I was about five. But I didn't pursue it seriously until I was much older. Adam How is this? Because this is your third album. Amy Yes. Adam When did you decide I am going to for real start? Because like, when I thought of Margaret Cho making music, I thought maybe it would be the kind of singing that I do

when I sing on the Judge John Hodgman show, which is it is reserved. It is careful and modest. Because I am scared to singy sing because I'm not good enough at it. So I can just sing sort of quietly close to the microphone. You are singing for real. Yes, yes. So when and how did you convince yourself to do that? Well, I always did it. I mean, I always loved it. I always wanted to. And I was hanging out with so

many musicians all the time. And I just thought, why don't I just like actually just make a record with people that I already see all the time anyway. So it was just something that I really wanted to do. And then it's hard to also, I mean, I could be a great singer if I wanted to, but I don't want to. It requires so much work to actually be really, really great. As we see, you know, the really great vocalists, their pipes are unmatched, but it's because they really work at it. I do not, you know, I just do want to do a couple times and then call it a day. Do you like performing music live?

I do, I do. But I do it less. I do, I've done a couple of like really sort of prestigious things like I did a show recently, a music show at the Grammy Museum, which was really exciting. And then I'll do stuff in LA at Lake Largo, which is also really great. But I haven't really spent a lot of time touring as a musician because I'm just such a... I'm so used to doing as a comedian. And when you do it as a comedian, it's so easy because it's just you. You don't have to take a whole band and it's a different life altogether.

So... Yeah, your album, we were listening to it before we started and it's really great. But it's like a rock album. You would need a band and stuff like that. So I imagine that would be hard to wrap your head around. It's hard. How do I get all this shit to the next place? Yeah.

There's a lot of people who do it. I mean, there's a lot of comedians now who are doing music like May Martin. They're doing amazing, amazing stuff. And Tim Heidecker, who I always love. And of course, we all want to be like Matt Berry. Matt Berry is a genius. Matt Berry is an incredible, incredible musician. Everyone just wants to be like Matt fucking Berry.

I know, he's so good. He's in one of the SpongeBob movies. He's a talking porpoise. It's fun casting. He's so good. He's so good. But I think, yeah, comedians make great music. I mean look at Steve Martin Oh, yeah, sure the best but yeah, I loved listening to your album. It's really terrific. It's very like kind of power poppy

It's thank you like it's kind of a fun. It's got some like 90s vibes. Thank you. Yeah in very fun ways I wanted to make a record that was like the artist that would have been in on Lilith Fair. Oh. You know, so it's that slip dress, acoustic guitar, like Meredith Brooks kind of Sarah McLachlan feeling, Liz Fair all the way. So that's my desire to be like that. You would be playing in that club they all went to in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Exactly.

And there was always like a band from the 90s playing. Totally. A song on the soundtrack. Yes, absolutely. I'm just glad somebody finally had the courage to ask the question, what if God was one of us? Right. Sure, yeah.

What would that be like? That's right. The album is called Lucky Gift. How about this, Margaret? On our way out, we'll play a song from the record. Do you have a favorite? Margaret Choe I love the single and the title, Lucky Gift. It's my favorite. So yes, play it.

Adam Foss Margaret Choe, our guest on the program. Absolute fucking legend. What an honor to have you here, Margaret. Margaret Choe Thank you. What an honor for me. Thank you. Adam Foss An honor and a joy. All of San Francisco is proud of you, Margaret. Our theme music is Love You by The Free Design, courtesy of The Free Design and Light in the Attic Records. You can find us on Instagram at jordanjessegohod, on bluesky at jordanjessegoh.

We are on Instagram individually, jordandavidmorris, jesseforeign, very famous. You can find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash Jordan Jesse go. And here, oh, Stephen Ray Morris now. Sean, fully Sean. Did you see this Jordan? Did you see that Stephen Ray Morris shaved off his head and almost all of his beard? I feel free. As though he had gotten fleas. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Lice, they checked it, but I'm all good now, you know. That is the extent of the... Congratulations, you look very handsome. Oh, thank you. Steven, I mean this. I want to say that there's a little bit of spice to your look. And I'm saying this positively, this is a good thing.

It's a little sleazy. Yes, yes. In a very good, yes. Indie sleaze, crack a PBR. I mean, I got Margaret's record, so summer of sleaze, on vinyl, you gotta get out. You got a lot more Tom of Finland vibe than you have had historically.

Than you have had historically. Get on your motorcycle vest and lounge in the field with your friend. You are wearing a muscle tee at 9.20 PM on a day when the high was 63. I've been inside all day. I have not left the house. Stephen Ray Morris, the producer of the program.

Here for Margaret Cho's new album, Gift is the title track. We'll talk to you next time on Jordan Jessica. It's okay. Entry B's a loaded gun. Shots of fire but you miss someone. You will read your Russian prose Put it down to curl my toes I could look at you and laugh You are such a lucky kid Time's decision that's between us

Cats are here just to redeem us I'm happy I exist I became what I resist I exist. I became what I resist. Thought I'd lose you, but I haven't. The worst thing I've been through never happens I can look at you and laugh You are such a lucky girl I fall and I fall, and I fall, and I fall, and I fall I'll give you a kiss, you will love you, love you, love you, love you, love you Love you