Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Adriana Trigiani Returns

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Meet Adriana Trigiani, best-selling author of eighteen books, playwright, television writer/producer, film director/screenwriter/producer, and entrepreneur. She's published a book every single year since 2000 and her work has been published in thirty-eight languages around the world. Her most recent novel, The View From Lake Como, is out now. EnJOY!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart podcast. I know a lot of cops, they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser, Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Taser, Inc. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser, Inc. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene, and every every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network, tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft, and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where Black women, femmes, and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support, and what happens after. And I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea TraTate. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Adventures should never come with a pause button. Remember MoviePass? All the movies you wanted for just nine bucks? I'm Bridget Todd, host of There Are No Girls On The Internet. And this season, I'm digging into the tech stories we weren't told, starting with Stacey Spikes, the black founder of MoviePass, who got pushed out of the company he built. Everybody's trying to knock you down

and it's not gonna work and no one's gonna like it. And then boom, it's everywhere. And that was that moment. Listen to There Are No Girls On The Internet on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come and see my brand new comedy hour. Well, it's actually, it's about an hour and a half.

And I don't have an opener because these guys cost money. But what I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while. Anyway, come and see me live on the Pants on Fire tour in your region. Tickets are on sale now and we'll be adding more as the tour continues throughout 2025 and beyond. For a full list of dates, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com. See you on the road, my dears.

My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Hello. My name is Craig Ferguson. Welcome to The Tent in the Kids Super Studios in Williamsburg,

Brooklyn, New York. My guest today on the Joy podcast is an old and dear friend of mine. So we tend to ramble a bit. So just a heads up, this one might go long, and sometimes you might think, what the hell are they talking about? But then again, you might think that

about any episode you see, or anything you see. Anyway, my friend today is the great Italian writer and personal friend of mine, Adriani Trigiani, Adriana Trigiani, Adriani that was more than one of us. And there cannot be only one Adriana, as you will see. Well, where are you from? Italy. And don't get excited, farmers, workers, laborers, blue collar, you know, I'm very proud of them. You should be proud of them.

But Italians, you know this because you've gone to Italy. Many times I love Italy. I know you do. That's why we work together because you thought she might be okay. But you were so rude to me when I first met you that I thought, oh, this guy. No, I wasn't rude to you. I was just checking you out. You were like, wait, will you come and be in my movie? And then I said, no, I said, Mr. Ferguson. I kept calling you Mr. Ferguson. out. You were like, wait, will you come and be in my movie? No, I said, no, I said Mr. Ferguson. I kept calling you Mr. Ferguson.

I think that's like just too obvious. You're like, will you be in my movie? I was like, I don't know, who else is in it? God bless you. You're a superstar. Okay, so the Italian thing is, we know where we're from down to the village, the street and the house.

We know exactly, we'll tell you, we'll send you to the little yellow house, you know, it's on the first part of the hill where you're gonna be, and if you're not gonna do it, they street and the house. We'll tell you, we'll send you to the little yellow house, you know, it's on the first part of the hill where you're gonna be like, and if you're not gonna do it, they'll serve you lunch. That's the way we roll. Do you know anybody who did that thing where in the Godfather,

that like you take the name of the town that you're from, like the Corleone, because there is a town called Corleone in Sicily, right? Well, there's also a beautiful tradition there too, that very often the town names are Jewish families, because there's Italian Jews. Yeah, which is beautiful. So the name of the town,

well, when they went through Ellis Island, if they couldn't spell it, they sort of did that. But my family remained intact through Ellis Island, the spellings. I had to change my name to Ellis Island. You're kidding. Yeah, my real name is Joey Goldstein. People don't know that about me, but it's true story.

It's the girl part I'm trying to process. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I just, it was a thing when I was coming through on the boat, when I was coming off the boat. Well, you chronicled your immigration in your book. That was really great. I'm very happy.

Proud American. Yeah, very. You're a very proud American. I think I irritate my family who are all born in America with my Americanness. Like Megan and the kids, I'm like, ah, let's go to NASCAR and stuff. That's not American. I went, sure it is, come on.

Every 4th of July, we watch Talladega Nights, the Ballad of Ricky Bowie. We love it too at our house. That's the greatest movie ever made. You know, but you're not really a family till you make an annual show of Midnight Run with Robert De Niro. And that is one of the great movies. I watched it with Robert De Niro.

And that is one of the great movies. I watched it with my parents every year. You know, I haven't seen that movie in years. It holds up. Yeah, it does. Oh my gosh, is that movie funny or what? Yeah, I remember it being funny. It's Charles Groton.

Charles Groton, he's very funny. He really was very, very funny. He's going to be with the Lord now. Oh, yes? He's no longer here. Yeah, he's very funny. He really was very, very funny. Is he still? He's going to be with the Lord now. Oh, he is? He's no longer here. Yeah, he was great, he was great. And De Niro, of course.

He's still here. And then he's very much still here. And then he's got a little baby. Did he just have a little baby? Yeah, he has a little baby. I think she's a year old. I see, wow. Hats off to Jagger did that as well. Mick Jagger a little baby. I think she's a year old. I see. With his...

Hats off to Jagger did that as well. Mick Jagger had his younger... You know what? Let's talk about Mick Jagger. I'd like to talk about... Okay, I'm happy to talk about Mick, because... Because you've talked me about Mick. I've talked...

Well, I've been around Mick a lot in my life, and I find he's a very interesting man. He really is. He's... Have you ever met him, but because I have my, I have friends that, uh, own the giants, Sheila Mare, her family, they invite me every time he comes through. Wait, wait, wait. You have friends who own the giants? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't you introduce me to those fancy friends? I get to meet like, you know, the

guys from like Western Pennsylvania and stuff. I'm like, have you met, you know, the guys from like Western Pennsylvania and stuff. I was like, have you met, you know, Carmine? That's who I get to meet. I don't get to meet the fancy people. Oh my gosh. I met Sheila Mara on a trip to Israel with Kathie Lee. No way. And we've been friends ever since.

Yeah, they're friends with all that crew. Yeah. But when the, when the stones come through Springsteen, I was, I was there the night Springsteen, I've seen him so many times countless since the River tour since I was a kid. Right. Um, and you're a big fan of Springsteen. I am.

Yeah, I think I am too, but I saw the show. I saw the show where he was sick and I went, having seen him so many times, I went, he's not right. He's not right. And then of course he hit that place in the show where it's runway to heaven, right? Where he just, bam, bam, bam, bam, hit after hit and the people are screaming. It's the key change in Born to Run.

That's right. That's what it is. Ding, ding, ding, ding. That's what happens. It absolutely, you're right. You're right. He is the That's what it is. Ding, ding, ding, ding. That's what happens. It absolutely, you're right. You're right. He is the master of the key change. You gotta have the key change or it's not gonna be a hit.

It's so true. Yeah, you gotta have the key change. Do you play a musical instrument? I do not. I feel like you should. What about the harp? Okay, so now you're digging into my childhood book. Right.

Well, the town band director, Dave Tip you're digging into my childhood book. Right. Well, the town band director, Dave Tipton, met with my parents and said, that kid has musical talent, me. And I was like all excited and I was imagining what instruments I would play. I really wanted to play the saxophone like my uncle. And my dad was very proficient on the piano, a natural piano player. I mean, like natural piano player. I mean like pianist. He classically trained from the age of five.

And he'd come home every day from the factory. He'd sit at the piano, that's how he decompressed for 30 minutes. Made us happy because we knew where he was. Do you think that people learn instruments? You didn't even bite on that one. Go ahead and learn instruments, why? Well, no, I think do people learn instruments less than they used to because they're on

fucking Instagram? No, you know, you're really trying to blame social. I want the internet to be stopped. Okay. I want you to stop the internet right now. It's going out of control. It's too late with social media because we don't have magazines and newspapers like we did.

So now, so now we have to tune into the Craig Ferguson magazine, whatever that is on the internet and find you on YouTube or wherever your face is sold. Yeah. Okay, but it used to be- But you still write books. I still get, you know, you still write big papery books that you read. They're lovely.

I still do. Thank you. But that's an industry that seems to benefit from this. Booktalk has changed book sales. The major publishers make over a billion a year each, some of them $3 billion, $4 billion. So they're doing very well. And here's the other thing you need to know.

You gotta just kinda stand back from things sometimes and go, the way we're telling stories changes. Just read a little interview with Clark Gable from 1950 and he was dead set against television because he was a movie star, a movie actor. And he said, we have to be loyal to the industry that brought us. But look what that simple change in the late forties and early fifties did to the industry. We began to tell stories in different ways. Now, last year in the United States of America, I've been doing this 25 years with books.

Yeah. Last year in the United States of America, I've been doing this 25 years with books, last year in the United States of America, 3.8 billion, million books, not billion, sorry everybody, million books were self-published. So there's 3.8 million people in the United States, more people than by books, are writing them. So the storytelling, the way we tell stories

has completely changed. Well, has it though? I mean, the fact that if you self publish a book, do you think that if 3.8 million people are writing books and self publishing, is that changing the way we tell stories? Or is just a lot of people doing it the way we used to do it with not very good editors? Because, you know, the publishing houses, I've read some great self published books and I've read some that I'm like, you know, this could have... Well, you're a big reader, so let's go by this. The industry itself, I haven't noticed that they've added a lot of editors.

I haven't noticed that they've added a lot of imprints to accommodate this, but you do find out when you scratch the surface that traditional publishers own the lion's share of self-publishing business. No. Yes. So you pay somebody to be published. And sometimes at these self-publishing houses, they have editors for you. Designers.

I'm a big fan of editors. I think editors are great. Well, I need them. I need my editor, my Aziva, I need her. I need editors. I also, like you, I do like to work collaboratively with a group. I think it brings, it makes it- I think that's because you're a TV writer though, right?

Well, when you started- Well, I was a playwright first, but that play. I think that's because you're a TV writer though, right? You come up when you start to. Well I was a playwright first, but that playwright really, that's really the family when you write for the theater. That's the Island of Misfit toys that's floating to profit. I mean it's like, those poor souls,

I mean all of us, I consider myself one of those poor souls, but the theater is the place where you make something for no money. You tell a story for no money. Whole reason I went into the theater was because I needed a piece of paper and a pencil and a space. And I did, when I began as a playwright, I did plays on buses.

I did plays everywhere. You did a play on a bus? Yeah, I did a play on a bus. It was, it got me in a lot of trouble too, because I did it on a shuttle bus between Notre Dame, University of Notre Dame and St. Mary's College. They ran a shuttle bus. That sounds like a very Catholic bus.

Catholic's interesting. Yeah. It's an interesting way to describe it. You know, they got some of those in Italy. Did you know that? I saw them there. You're obsessed with religion. You know, they got some of those in Italy. Did you know that? I saw them there. You're obsessed with religion.

You know, I kind of am a little bit. You are. And I think that that's beautiful on a certain level. You're a very spiritual person, but I also think, you know, you're a very bitter person and that goes with religion. I dare you. But you know that- Ah!

He's not at all. You know, I am quite- He's a delicious delight. No, no, no. I think I've got a certain amount of bitterness, but that's part of the recipe of being a human being. I think if you don't have bitterness, you're not fucking paying attention. Some things you should be better about.

That's true. You know? Like every time I feel my knees when I stand up, I'm like, God damn it. Let's talk about aging. That's- Oh, all right. Well, look, very briefly though- But let's go back to self-publishing. No, no, no, no. Let's talk about aging. That's all right. Well, look, very briefly though, but let's go back to self publishing. No, no, no, no, no.

Let's wave, wave back. Do you see how I don't let you drive the bus? I just want to take us on the journey from where you start to where you end up. Okay, okay. So very, very quickly, but I won't, we won't make a huge deal, but for those people unfortunate enough

to not know your story, let's do a concise, well edited short story of you starting out as a fresh faced Italian immigrant getting off the boat at Ellis Island. Oh my God. So where you're from the Appalachians, right? I grew up in Appalachia. Right. In Southwest Appalachia. In Southwest Virginia.

Bless you. Started out in the Northeastern United States with my little family of seven brothers, seven of us and my parents. And my dad got a low interest government loan to start a blouse mill in Appalachia. That's how we ended up there. People always say, how did an Italian get down there? Well, that's how the Italians got down there. So you started off a blouse mill in Appalachia. That's how we ended up there. People always say, how did an Italian get down there?

Well, that's how the Italians got down there. So you started off a blouse, well, your father started a blouse mill. Manufacturing, yeah, he made more blouses, but he was trained in his parents' blouse mill in Martins Creek, Pennsylvania. All right. So how did you get, that doesn't sound like a,

a quite short hop to show business from there. That's not like, well, you know, we make blouses. I wanted to be, I was just talking to our intern, Laney about this. I wanted to be in show, I still, it's my highest dream. See, I love show business. I love it more. I love show business more than any person, man, child.

I'm in love with show business. And I'm still obsessed with it. Yeah. Yeah. There's something, every aspect of it, you know, begging you to do a movie. You didn't beg me. You asked me nicely and I said sure. No, you said I'll call you back in 48 hours. No person ever said that to me. I had to put it away. 48 hours? What's he talking about? Did I say that? I'll call you back in 48 hours. Because you were in Italy with your friends and you didn't want to be bothered.

Well, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. I can't understand why I said 48 hours. You said 48 hours. I'll call you back in 48 hours. So then I made some calls. I said in in 48 hours, we'll have an answer. Everybody relax. We'll see if he comes back. Wait, yeah, but this is not about that. This is about you. I know, but we have to throw in those things

because I think of you and I just start laughing. Okay, and you're Appalachian. Okay, it's the Scottish-Irish area of the United States. So when we went to Scotland and we made a movie there, I was the only person on that crew from America who could understand the local people. Cause it sounded like it to me. Sounded like an Appalachian. Yeah, it's very, it's got a very kind of, yeah.

So when you go to Appalachia, you're not straining to like understand what people are saying. And if I slip into it, which I am known to do, you understand. So there we are in Appalachia with no connections to show business. And all I wanted was to be in show business.

So what happens is you say, I wanna write a play and it's gonna go on on a bus between the Catholic college and the other Catholic place. That was later, please. Please, you're ruining the best part of the story. Oh, no, okay, what's that? Okay, because we were Italian, there was an outdoor drama there

called the Trail of Lonesome Pine Outdoor Drama. My brother Carlo played Little Bub, Big Bub, and Old Bub. Okay, that's how long he was in the drama. Very, very stale man. Yes, he's a great actor, my brother. And we were all involved in the town in the theater. And I was on the crew because Carlo was a star. He played like the boy in Mame,

the fiddler on the roof wherever the little kid was. And they got a kid in every musical. Corky, I think that's the name of the kid. Okay, so you're so wrong. I guess Corky or Spud. You're so wrong. And you're doing this during two things, during Tony Awards season and Pride Month,

you should be ashamed of yourself. Anyway, get the characters correct. Anyway, so when they needed to cast the children of Siam in The King and I, they looked at the Italians and said they looked different. Put them in. So we were the kids that went... Okay? So that's when I really fell in love with show business

and when I was in in love with show business and when I was in my first thing. Then I wasn't cute, so I was put in the chorus. You're talking about you're beautiful. You're beautiful your whole life. Yeah, you think that because you love me, you're my brother, but I'm just telling you back then, no, my glasses were this thick.

And they were like, oh yeah, can you see stage left? Not really, okay. And you know, in certain areas of history, people didn't wear eyeglasses. And there was one director that came through, he was very fancy, said everybody take your glasses off. And the people were, we were piling up backstage, it was bad, anyway. Well, because you were doing a period piece

and you couldn't wear glasses. Yeah, you can't wear glasses. So, well, you certainly couldn't wear Oscar de la Renta windshields that we were all wearing. Hello. This is Craig Ferguson. And I want to let you know I have a brand new stand-up comedy special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy. And I would be so happy if you checked it out.

To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel at The Craig Ferguson Show. And it's right there. Just click it and play it and it's free. I can't, look, I'm not gonna come around your house and show you how to do it. If you can't do it, then you can't have it. But if you can figure it out, it's yours. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two and three on May 21st and episodes four, five and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

but for good plus on Apple podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences

of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the strength to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant But he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house unarmed

Pretty private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines Every Tuesday make sure you listen to pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but... Going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of your life. That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us.

I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea TraTate. On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who live through harm, looks like, and sounds like, in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space.

So, let's walk in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and batter than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday.

Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. With guests like Corinne Stephens. I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happen. And then everybody else wanna get pissed off

because the white said it was okay. Problem. My oldest daughter, her first day in ninth grade, and I called to ask how it was going. She was like, oh, Dad, all they was doing was talking about your thing in class. I ruined my baby's first day of high school. And slumflower.

What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh my god, it's go time. You actually sent it? Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black sends me money. I'm like, oh my God, it's go time. You actually sent it? Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast.

I have a theory about movies made in the 1970s. This is a thing that I've, recently I've started watching movies made in the 1970s. This is a thing that I've recently, I've started watching movies made in the 1970s. And I feel like- So we're talking Hal Ashby, all those guys. Like movies that were made in the 1970s, I feel like all of the actors said, we're not getting anything but 1970s haircuts here.

It doesn't matter what period we're playing. I don't care if we're playing Nazis, Roman guys. I don't care if we're outlaws. I don't care if we're playing Nazis, Roman guys. I don't care if we're outlaws. I don't care if everybody had a 1970s haircut. They wouldn't do anything else. They act just like, no, fuck it, no. And they wore the glasses they wanted to wear.

They wore those big windshield wiper eyeglasses. And I think you also, when you think of the 1970s in film, you have to talk about teeth. Well, I'm from a country where teeth is not something that we talk about. Okay, I lived there for six months. People have beautiful teeth. What is that new?

Well, you were mixing with the smart teeth set. That's what it was. And also those teeth, many of those teeth arrived later. Oh, I see what you're saying. Anyway, look, look, look, look. So we're back and you've got your glasses on and you're in the play, but now you love show business. Do you say, I'm gonna write a play for Catholics.

So I wrote a play. I didn't write a play for Catholics first. I wrote a play. I started to write for the school assemblies. Oh. And my friends remember this, that during the bicentennial, I decided that I was a playwright then. And I wrote monologues for people

to play historical figures in my school. Nice. Who did you write? Yes, I did, well, Harriet Tubman. Okay. Ben Franklin. Okay. Frederick Douglass. Okay. Harriet Tubman, Ben Franklin, Frederick Douglas.

Yeah, people like that. So we're sticking with American. American heroes kind of people. His history, yeah. And my friend, Jean Williams, who is African American, came from a long line of teachers. And she herself became a teacher. And I was just with her in Big Stone Gap.

We get together and we just all start, we just laugh. And I said, remember what, and we put her in the Big Stone Gap movie because I knew she was an actor. And I needed somebody with Whoopi Goldberg in a scene. And those two, it was like Jean met Whoopi at her level. I can't even, but we had a long history because I cast her as Harriet Tubman for the

school assembly and I was short on costumes so I went into the to the home ec room and they had made bonnets, shower caps, but they were plastic. I took one of them and I took an apron and I said sit in a rocking, do the monologue, Harriet Tubman. With a plastic shower cap on? But when the thing opened, the student body went crazy. They thought it was a comedy that she was in that shower cap. And Jean, the actor that she was, she just pushed through it. And I'm waiting in the wings for her.

She came back and she took off that shower cap and she threw it at me and she goes, never again, Trajani, never again! Is that story amusing on your podcast or is that just too private a story? But anyway, so she still remembers that she did it and I remember the whole, anyhow, so then when it came time, I said, I'm paying you back,

okay, you're gonna be in the movie, you're getting paid. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you jumped ahead here. Oh, did I? You want me to get to the movie. You're getting paid. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You jumped ahead here. Oh, did I? You want me to get to the St. Mary's of it all? Yeah. So you're right.

Now you're writing a play for Catholics. So I might, well, for the Patriarch, really, because Notre Dame is a monolith and St. Mary's is this sort of really wonderful women's college, which are not in fashion anymore, although it's thriving, but it's next door to Notre Dame, but it's got, in my mind, it's more beautiful, it has better land, prettier buildings, whatever.

Did you go there, or you shouldn't have? I went to St. Mary's. Okay. And so the first thing I would have to attack is the disparity of power. Right. So we got on the bus and I wrote scenes, sketches, that the girls would do as if they're having

a real conversation. But they were based on real conversations, like about who they were dating and whatever, changing names. Right. But they'd be holding the thing on the shuttle bus. Who's watching these plays then on the bus? Everybody that's riding the bus.

It's a built in audience. Who's riding the bus? Who's riding the bus? Students going back and forth for classes and at night for parties. You should do this play on the subway. How would you, you know, that's a great idea except you can't hear down there.

You gotta see. You gotta project. Spartamactic, Spartamactic, shot. Like the guy that comes through and says, give me a 20 or I'll kill myself right in front of your eyes. That guy, yeah, you hear him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that guy. So I did that, then I did a stage show with it.

Then we evolved into a comedy troupe, and I just picked the girls that one looked like Pat Benatar, Mimi Commons. She always wore a leopard and she was in the art department. People didn't really talk to her too much. And then I found out she was just painfully shy because she was the one that really, she'd barf before every performance to be like Mimi. I used to do that. You did?

I used to throw up before. That's a sign of greatness. I never threw up. Never worked out for me. No, it was now. I never threw up. Now before I go on stage? I couldn't do anything that would directly make me it's now. I never know before I go to do anything that would directly make me thin. Nothing. I never threw up. What about heroin? What about heroin? I didn't, I never, you know, I didn't do drugs. You know, I didn't do them because fear. I don't please listen,

whatever it takes to keep you off the needle, fear is fine. Fear is fine. I never did that. No, no, no. And drinking to me, I'd rather eat the calories. I'd rather eat. Yeah, you know, I don't think I've ever seen you drink anything. You drink cocktails or something, don't you? Not really. Not really. Not really, my brother. No, I don't because it's a lot of sugar in there. And I was born pre-diabetic. I'm Italian. You have to really watch it.

You got to be careful with the sugar. So, but here's the thing. I feel like, no, look this- Don't get off the place. Keep going. No, no, no. I'm just going to take it as, cause you said the Italian thing. I'm going to say something about Italy now. And now you know how much I love it. I know you love it. It's like every time I go to Italy, I think, why And now you know how much I love it. I know you love it. It's like every time I go to Italy, I think, why don't I live here?

It's crazy. Why don't we get side by side houses in the Alps? That's where I'm looking. I don't have best seller money. I'm not like, I don't know the type of money you have. We can buy a house there for $3,000. Why wouldn't we do it? If we can buy it, I for $3,000. Why wouldn't we do it? If we can buy a house anywhere you can buy a house for $3,000, I don't want to live there.

I saw your skills at the castle in Scotland. That's Megan. That's Megan's. I'm talking about who goes out and digs the trenches and plants the trees. I need you for that. Move the stonework with your little wagon by yourself with your bitterness. Oh rage and despair, just digging away. Oh, those fucking assholes.

Oh, fucking, Indiana, fucking get me to do that stupid fucking film. Yeah, but wouldn't this be fun? I mean, our family, we love each other. We could go up there, but you would be like this day too. I hate her. I hate her. Because I've been peeping in on you. you would be like this day two, I hate her. I hate her. I hate her. Because I've been peeping in on you.

Hey, let's go. All right, anyway, so we're back. Now you're in this Catholic school. Okay, so I mean, yeah, but it's the 1980s. So let's not get crazy. It's like everything changed. And I believe in the 1980s. I think there's a hundred years between 1979 and 1989.

Do you agree with that? I'm not against it, but I need you to elaborate a little bit. What are you doing? Well, there's been these studies that are, you know, sociological studies. And I would refer everyone to Kurt Anderson's book on this topic. The title escapes me, but we'll put it in the prompt. He he wrote this book about that. It really intrigued me. And it's gotten us to 2025 in a certain way. When we were kids. Right.

The decade was defined by the cars, the haircuts, the people. There was it changed through time, okay? My mother might have been wearing a pill box hat in 1960, but by 1970 she was in a caftan with Cher bracelets up her arm, okay? Okay. Okay? I'm, follow this. Oh, I'm trying to. The haircuts,

there were haircuts, right? Right. In the 50s there was a thing called the Italian cut. The Italians, who were persona non grata in the United States after World War II assumed a position of artistic and cultural excellence, cars, haircuts, movie stars. Chinochita. Can I tell you something about haircuts? So in the 1970s, you know, Rod Stewart's haircut.

Yeah. Right. We got to talk about Rod Stewart. That was a typical Rod Stewart haircut, right? It was a 1970s Rod Stewart haircut. And my mother used to say, oh, that Rod Stewart, he thinks he's fancy with his blowjob haircut. I'm like, mom, that's not, I don't think they're called that.

She said, oh, yes, they go to the salons and they get those blowjob haircuts. I'm like, I'm pretty sure that's not where they got them. But she was convinced that Rose- I'm not saying that Rose-Jour never had a blowjob. I'm just saying he never had a blowjob hair. This is so funny because you know, there's everything, everything is what I love about show business.

Everything forms these circles. And I just talked to Peter Wolfe on my podcast about his memoir. And you should talk to him because that man, every page is like Tomas, loaded, loaded stories. But he, he, the first time in history, I saw a negative thing about Rod Stewart and I asked him, I said, I don't know Rod Stewart. I never met Rod Stewart, but I find Rod Stewart a ray of light. Yeah, me too.

I think he's a- What was the negativity about Rod Stewart? He was a little snuddy. No! He walked by the, he walked by the Jay Giles band and didn't give them their proper snaps. Fuck no. You don't think so?

Well, you asked me about it. I can't believe that to be true. Let me tell you though, I just- How about his taste? Mick and Rod. Leopard, he's someone who wears leopards. But- Well, he wears anything he wants.

But look, I gotta tell you this about Rod Stewart. This is a true story. I was in Heathrow Airport waiting for a plane. That's why I go there. I don't go for any other reason. I was in there and I was waiting for a plane and Rod Stewart walks through the airport. Every time people were going, oh my God, Rod Stewart.

And he would look at people and say, Rod Stewart. I could say his own name. I was like, that's how I'm, I love that. You just go through and say Craig Ferguson. I go, no, I go through and say Rod Stewart. And people are like that. Who's that old man saying Rod Stewart to people? With your blowjob haircut.

Anyway, look, so we get, we're back. We have to get you back to the, how do you get writing Catholic plays to New York City? Cause then you come to New York. Why do you call them Catholic? They're not Catholic plays. They're, I wrote a play called notes from the Nile, which I really would love to do again. I rewrote the story.

I'll do it. Who else is in it? I wrote the story. You would be great as Julius Caesar. Cause I bring him back from the dead. And there's a, there's a, there's a three way conflict between Cleopatra, her former lover, Julius Caesar, which you would play in Antony.

Oh, that's actually, yeah. Which we would get to somebody. Exactly. I know. So, but I would play Julius Caesar Scottish. Yeah, you could do whatever you want. Hey, everybody. By the way, ladies and gentlemen, I'm just going to say this directly to the audience.

He says he's going to play it Scottish. He would only play it Scottish because he makes the decision and drives the bus as an actor. Okay. And quite accidentally, so do whatever you want. I'm not going to argue with you. Well, also I think, I think that would be good to play Julius Caesar. Besides everybody in America thinks

you have a British accent. They don't know the difference. Well, they think ancient Rome, people think that. Because of the movie. Because the movie's like, well, all ancient Romans talked like this, Caesar, quickly, come here. And how about the player king? They were like, hey, what's like this, Caesar, quickly, come here. And how about they play their king?

They were like, hey, what's coming to go? It's a time for something nice to eat. Oh, God love the Italians. I like the Italians. Anyway, look, how do we get you from college to New York City? That's what I want to do. We're telling your story today. Okay. So, I knew I had to come here. This was my highest dream. Right. Okay. Because you want to come here and This was my highest dream. Right. Okay. Because you want to come here

and you want a right place for Broadway, right? That's right. And I have no place else to go. I can't go home. My parents still have kids at home. I would say that, you know, they were done. Okay. But besides I wouldn't go home, I needed,

I had this burning like crazy, as you know, to get into show business. So I came up north to my grandmother's and I had my stuff in paper bags basically. And my grandmother called this kind of nutty friend of hers in Garrison, New York and said, my granddaughter needs a place to live in New York City. She said, tell her to go to the Longacre Hotel for women.

Cheap, clean, I stay there whenever I go into New York. Now, meanwhile, this lady lived in like a Frank Lloyd Wright house in Garrison, she was very wealthy, but nobody knew it. Right. But she's an old friend of my grandma's from the factory days. Do they still have that hotel? The- Well, now that's the thing that's changed.

The nineties kind of everything collapsed. Like there was the, that I got from the long acre hotel for women. Where was that? Was that in Manhattan? Yes, on 45th between eighth and ninth. Okay. That sounds like a dangerous place for you to be. What year are we talking about? It's not that bad. 85, not that bad. Not terrible. But anyway, it's not cleaned up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I immediately, um,

form a comedy troupe like I had at St. Mary's with new girls. Right. And one of the girls in it was a crafty girl from Virginia and South Carolina named Eleanor Jones. Who became? Who came into the group. And I said, look, I'm running out of dough. And she said, I got a tip on a sublet.

She said, I wouldn't do that, but I took it, but I took it within two weeks, knock on the door, the guy that I gave the money, not Eleanor. Eleanor was at the Mill Bank house. Right. The Mill Bank house was a boarding house for women in the arts, which had to be between 19 and 25. And then they kicked you out. Although there was a woman in there named Lamia.

She was 42 if she was a day and she never left. So you had to let her get out of there. No, Lamia wore wigs. Nobody could figure Lamia out. She was a beauty, but. Let's not get caught up in Lamia. Let's get back to you though. Let's not get caught up in Lamia.

That's how she gets you. That's how she gets you. That's how I get you off track. We've done this enough now, you know. Okay, so I get into the mill bank house and when that happens, now I'm golden. I lost all my money because I gave it to the sublet guy and it was a thief.

It was a guy who had sublet in between and two dancers showed up in the middle of the night and get out of our apartment. And I said, no, I gave so and so the money. And he said, no, that guy sublet from us, he took your money. Oh no. So I went, okay, well, no, I gave so and so the money. And he said, no, that guy sublet from us. He took your money. Oh no. So I went, okay, well, listen, you lose money along the way,

you never lose it again in that fashion. Now I know that just caused like 50 needles just went into your neck when I said I lost money, but I did. I've lost a little bit along the way. I know you have. Okay, so Eleanor says, I'm gonna get you in here at the Milbank house. I'm gonna get you in. I said, please, please get me in. It was

starting to snow. Oh, you're on the street, you're like the little match girl. No, no, no, I'm not the little match girl. I'm still at the Longacre Hotel. Okay. You know, I'm okay. I show up with my bags and the lady that answers the door changed my life. Jim Lawton, she's running the house. And I said, I need a room. And so she said, I have a guest room. Now I was temping on Wall Street. So I had, I was, it was, you couldn't save money in New York. I don't know who came, but I knew I could pull it off. So it was a hundred dollars a week, two meals,

Monday through Friday and breakfast on Saturday and Sunday. Hey, that's enough food, right? Sure. Get your own room. Yeah. And a shared bath, like a dorm. Really nice, clean, beautiful. And she brought me in.

So I- And did she take you into show business? How did you get into show business? Well, that's where it gets good. Oh, okay. Because nobody would talk to that lady and she was very beautiful. Why wouldn't they talk to her?

Because she's the, nobody likes the boss, you know that. Nobody, and she was the house mother. And she was always telling people to get your feet off of things and you can't have a boy inside the house. And the girls were propping the door open with a shoe. They had a lady that answered the door. I mean, it was like a whole thing.

It was like, it was like 1940 in 1985. That's how I will describe the bank house. Okay. But the food was good and washer dryer and a phone on each floor. Let's not get stuck in the hotel here. How do we get you into show business? Cause you're really selling the hotel to me.

Like holding the doors open with shoes, it's a phone on every floor, there's a meal on Sundays. Because how can I describe how you get your dream if I don't tell you where you stay and how you kind of make it happen? Geez, you're a novelist, that's why you're doing that. But this is not a novelist podcast. I'm editing you.

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley, comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company

dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set

free. I'm Ebene and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on the street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed.

Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of your life. That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry

and that we have big, bold, and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea TraTate. On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us.

We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's walk in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and batter than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila.

And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. With guests like Corinne Stephens. I've never seen so many women protect predatory men.

And then me too happened. And then everybody else want to get pissed off because the wife said it was okay. Problem. My oldest daughter, her first day of ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing. She was like, oh dad, all they were doing was talking about your thing in class.

I ruined my baby's first day of high school. And slumflower. What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like I feel the moisture me on is when a man sends me money. Like I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh my God, it's go time. You actually sent it? Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast.

Every Wednesday. On the Black Effect Podcast Network. The iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. So now, how do we get you? you go to find your podcast. So now how do we get you? How do we get you into the show business world? Okay.

First thing I do is I'm, I found a comedy troupe and I call my dad and he knows a guy in the garment district and I hold auditions and those girls became the core group and I kept that going for seven years with different girls. Where did you perform? Upstairs at the Vesuvio was our first run. Is that an Italian restaurant? Okay, yes it is. It's kind of a mob joint if you have to know the truth. Hey, you know, we got these girls, they're upstairs,

they're doing a play, it's about Catholics. Really funny, really funny. Did that, then we did the cabaret circuit, so the duplex, we did the comedy clubs, we did, like we were openers, like Silver Friedman had us open for people, cause we did music too, and then the Hornet Planet. You don't get that in comedy clubs anymore, it's single performance.

Only when that's it. Nobody wanted to see us coming with a giant subway token, spray painted gold that we did on the roof of the mill bank. Nobody cared about that after a certain point. I wanna see that. And we also did Kelly's Village West, which we weren't sure what it was. I was the booker, and my boss on Wall Street will tell you

I took his rollover line as my business line, and I answered it like this, 3169. And they go, is this Adriana Trajani? Are you booking the act and the thing? And I go, yeah. So one day he called the second line, because I was ratted out, and I went 3169. And he said, this is your boss.

I need to talk to you. And I went, uh-oh, don't worry. This guy, he just liked the fact that I was funny. And he, he's still my dear friend. I love him still. He's like an eccentric guy in Wall Street. No, he's not eccentric at all. He's like young and a go-getter and tops and pops, but he was, he was Italian.

Whoa, whoa, what's tops and pops? It just means he's like, he's like climbing the ladder at Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith. And I don't think it even exists anymore. See when people say to me, how you feel? And I'm going to say tops and pops. You never heard that? No, I'm not saying from now on.

Ask me how I feel. You'll age out of it though. If my grandmother used to say it. Come on, come on. Ask me. How you feeling, Craig? Tops and pops. Do you think anybody's gonna like this podcast?

I don't give a shit. What are we doing? I don't give a shit. I love it. Okay, okay, that's why you're successful in show business. You don't have that I don't care gene. Okay, go ahead. So you get out of, you get out of-

St. Mary's. You get out of this, no, no, no, no, no, no, now you're in show business. Now I'm in. You're in the this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no which was off Broadway at the Manhattan Theater Club. You notice I've never worked there since. It was called Secrets of the Lava Lamp for Camille Saviola, who was starring in Nine, the musical. She was a little tugboat of a woman. She's in heaven now, I guess. You say I guess, like maybe she's not? I don't know.

I don't know if she believes she'd go there. But anyway, that's all what you believe. So she found me. I was doing staged readings all over the city, directors doing staged readings with really great actors. Okay, I mean really great. Because, and I said to myself,

I said take your 20s to learn how to do this. Work with other actors and see what you can do and direct them and see what you know, anyway. So that led to, she hired me, Camille Saviola. And I got trashed by Mel Gussell in the New York times. Oh, we've all been trashed in the New York times. That's part of life. I didn't really care, but the people I was temping for, they were a little

embarrassed because they all came to the show and they were like, how'd you get your, I don't like people I know coming to the show. I don't like to see anybody I know there. I haven't seen you sec. coming to the show. I don't like to see anybody I know there. I haven't seen you suck. No, not recently. However, so this turned into, for me, was another trajectory of show business. How Did I Get TV was my girlfriend's, two of them were working in the mailroom at William Morris, Suzanne Gluck, who became a huge agent,

and Ruth Pomerantz, who was at the time was a producer. She was like a baby producer, and she discovered Grisham for the movies. You mean she was a mom or she was a? I mean, a baby producer, like she was a newbie. She was young, she was in her 20s. I thought she wasn't producing babies. She's so smart.

Ruth is still one of the most brilliant people I know. I mean, I guess she is. They kind of sat me down. They said, you're terrible. I'm blowing past your BS. Anyway, so, you're terrible. You blowing past your BS. Anyway, so, you're bullshit. Anyway, I'm trying to tell the story. You get me off track and then you blame me.

All right, all right, all right, tell the story. Tell the story. So, okay, so Ruth and Suzanne said, hey, I was really broke. Said, I need to make money. They said, you need an agent. I said, what do they do? They get you jobs.

I said, really? This make money. They said, you need an agent. I said, what do they do? They get you jobs. I said, really? This is what a hayseed, I had the dream, but none of the logic. I didn't understand, I just thought they'd find my work. Well, this is when it gets magical. They said, you need to write TV. Now keep in mind, I grew up in a place where you barely got reception.

The first show I remember really remember loving was The Waltons. Oh, I love that show. About a poor family in Appalachia. Good night, John Boyd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was our family. Yeah, really?

Well, that's what I call this, except we were like the 1970s version. But anyway, so I knew I had to figure out a way with my past and my lineage, which was non-existent, how to break into the business whatever way I could. And so they made me a list of agents and they said, you're going to meet all these people. And there was a list. And I went to the first guy and I liked him. And I said, I called him up, I said,

I'm gonna go with him, but you need to meet everybody. I said, no, for what? I like this guy, Wiley Housam at ICM. Right. So Wiley, I go into- Wiley Housam? Housam, he has a great name. Wiley is his first name. It's a great name. I feel like we should do an animated version of your life

and Wiley should be played by some sort of wolf. I don't know. Yeah, okay. No, it's a different kind of Wiley. But anyway, so after I signed, I looked at him and said, I don't have any money. I'm broke. Right.

I need next month's rent. It was two weeks away. And he said, well, Adri, it doesn't work like that. Like we have to submit you and everything. Yeah, it takes time. Listen, I said, I signed Adri, it doesn't work like that. Like we have to submit you and everything. Yeah, it takes time. Listen, I said, I signed with you because you can make things happen. He said, okay.

Okay. He said, I'm going to give you a tape and you're going to go watch this show and you're going to write a spec script. He said, take a few months. I said, I got two weeks till the first of my, I said, I got, okay, give it to me. I did not have a television set and he didn't have a VCR. So I had to call a friend who and I didn't have a VCR. So I had to call a friend who super let me in

to watch this thing. Couldn't get the picture to come up, but I could hear it. What was the show? Oh, you were making me wait. Making you wait. Okay. That's what you call dramatic tension. Yeah, I know.

You clearly are not a master of. I'm tense and dramatic. As well you know. All right, come on, come on. Okay, alright. So anyway, so I can't see it, but I can hear it. It's like a radio play. And I got all the characters, feverishly written, and listened to it like three times. I wrote everything down and I got it.

Oh, it's a blue collar family. The mother's bitter. The father's kind of put upon two and the kids are pretty hysterical. And I thought one of the kids, that's the only thing I got wrong, I got her name, the mother kept going, B-E-D-E. And it was Becky, she was saying Bic. Bic.

But I heard Bitty, Betty, Betty, Betty. I left it in there. Right. So I went home, in two days I wrote this script. I still don't know what the show is. Roseanne, it was the Roseanne pilot. Roseanne! It was the Roseanne pilot,

which is how I got to Carsey Warner. So I'm doing this and I thought, I know exactly what to do with these people. She wants to, she's fed up, she sends them out to go tubing in a blizzard, the family, because that's what you do in the Midwest, you tube, and you get dragged by farm equipment on a tube. It's a lot of fun. I've done it. I've done it too. Yeah. So I get everybody out of the house, ding-dong, the doorbell rings, and it's a bride. It's in the,

she's in the snow. She goes, I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't get married. And the fact is, Roseanne in my episode was thinking of leaving, because she couldn't take it anymore. She was about to snap. But then she has to convince the bride to go back to the church. And she has to then convince herself to stay married and continue to be a mother of all these children.

This is a great idea for an episode. Did they make this episode? They never made it, but I have a lifelong friend in Matt Williams who created the show, he read it. And he said, I can't steal you. They already got you over in a different world. And a different world was Debbie Allen, who by the way signed me into the director's guild.

Susan Fales Hill, Margie Pierce. So how come you're working on a different world? How did you get that job? Because I got it before I got this one. So they all read the same script in Hollywood. I'm telling you within two weeks, I had a pilot deal and I was hired. They sent Susan Failshill, we want you on this show.

And I really wasn't sure what staffing was. Like could I even do it? The greatest, it's gonna be replaced by AI though, all that. Well, for five minutes till it doesn't work and then then leave people. You watch what happens. You're still gonna need you anyway.

So, and they're still gonna need me because we have sold. Well, they need you. They need you. I don't think they need me. I think they need you. I don't think anybody needs you. Look at how hilarious you are. And you've maintained your girlish figure and looks.

I do it because I walk. I walk everywhere. Because you walk six and a half miles. Okay, that's like obsessive craziness. No, no, no, it's great. That's very good for you. My brother does it. He lives in six and a half miles. Okay, that's like obsessive craziness. No, no, no, it's great. That's very good for you. My brother does it. He lives in Brooklyn and he walks to Manhattan.

I walked from the Upper East Side to Williamsburg. Unbelievable. And you came across a bridge. Yeah, walked across a bridge. Oh my God. Okay. That's diehard. Okay.

So where were we? You're a different world and you've read this. And then my career takes off in television. So who do you end up writing for? Vera Fawcett and Ryan O'Neill and Alan Zweibel on Good Sports. Bill Persky on Working It Out. I became the showrunner of a show called City Kids, which was phenomenal. So now you're really coin.

I mean, you're making a lot of money now. Oh, you care about some money. Oh, absolutely. I made more money. I made, you know what I cared of money now. Oh, you care about some money. Absolutely. I made more money. I made, you know what I cared about? Cause I'm working class. I wanted that seven years in the WGA. So I got a pension someday.

Yeah, I get that. This could head South. This could all go belly up. I understand that feeling. And by the way, and you also, my belief is every seven to 10 years, you got to blow everything up and reform. Fire everybody. Yeah, that's what I think too. Well, fire, but also fire yourself and start over

and say, what do I really wanna be doing? Because what show business will do, it'll take you into that. It's like pulling a tractor and making hay. They'll keep you there. If you don't go, I don't wanna do that anymore, I need to move. That's how I became a novelist. The audiences do that too. The don't go, I don't want to do that anymore. I need to move. That's how I became a novelist.

And the audiences tell you I don't want you anymore too. Unless you're Johnny Carson. The audiences do that thing where, you know, you have to, when you change it, they go, no, don't change it. We like it this way. And you go, yeah, but I, I can't keep doing it. Like I'm thinking specifically about late night for me when I was like, now I got to stop and try to persuade.

But you know what I love about your late night stories? There's a moral center to it. You began to not be able to cope with the fact that you were employing so many people. It became an albatross to you. I hated it. I'm not this, I love to do in the show, but the act, the business of being in business, like I've, oh, I hate that. I mean, you stick me in a tent in Brooklyn, I'm fine,

but you put me in a, oh. I know you can't be, but that's what makes your life so interesting is that you, you know how to blow it up without, you know, having- Without drugs and alcohol? Without drinking. Yeah.

Without drug taking. I don't even know if you take Advil anymore. I don't know what you- I take Adv anymore. I don't know what you're. I take Advil. I take Advil. What can I do? You gotta take an Advil every now and then. I've become obsessed with recovery.

You mean 12 step recovery program? Yes, I'm very interested in it. I can help you out there. What do you wanna know? Well, I just find it, I'm talking to people lately like Molly Jongfast and stuff, and I, reading her book, and she went into recovery,

and her mom said, you don't have a problem. She kept saying to her daughter, you don't have a problem, and Molly said, but my mom had a problem, and now she's dealing with her mom that has dementia. But I'm telling you this because I find it fascinating to be able to stick with it. You know, when we were first friends, you ate at my house and there's alcohol in my house,

which made me extremely nervous. And then I started to like look at the balsamic vinegar, is that bad? I didn't know like what. Is this because you're a nice person and you're kind and you know, and you were thinking about me. That's when you were a vegetarian. Now that made me-

I was a vegan, yeah, that made you mad. That made me mad because you have to just invent things with vegetables that- Also, you're an Italian mom. It's not fake. The fact that you didn't eat a pork chopper or eat meat, I was like, oh. Yeah, well, I'm over all that.

You know that, right? That's all. I know you do. You eat meat now, I'm relieved. And now you're back on the- Not much, but I'll eat it. But I try to make things that tasted like meat, like artichokes.

We're getting sidetracked here. Okay, we're sidetracked. All right, we're getting sidetracked, which is, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're writing for TV. Now I wanna get you onto the novels, because I know it seems to me a fairly easy transition from writing for TV to making films and stuff like that.

That's all part of the same thing. But you start writing novels. Yes. And you start writing novels, which I think is interesting because I've only written one and I wrote one because I was infuriated with the, it was such rage and despair about the film business. I thought I can't work with anyone else. I can't work with anyone. I can't work with one more fucking asshole saying to me, you know what would be great if he had a girlfriend? And like I saw a script that I put together, get chipped away at, chipped away at.

It drives me fucking mad. It's pain for pain. So that's why I wrote a novel. And I want to know why you, cause you still write novels. That's right. And I probably will die writing them. I do want to direct and write more films and I'm working on that.

But why would I be a novelist till the day I die? Now you're getting, you're getting to the pith, which is what makes this podcast so fabulous. Working for other people, I'm writing their stories. When you're in a comedy room, you're writing, you're delivering characters that have already been created by somebody else. If you're lucky enough to get a pilot, you're creating it, but to get that on the air,

I think I can safely tell you I wrote 17 of them, and I didn't get them on the air, and I came squeaky close with two of them. But because I'm from Appalachia, I just banked the money and just went and moved on to the next pilot, okay? But what turned me to novels was... from Appalachia, I just banked the money and just went and moved on to the next pilot, okay? But what turned me to novels was that I had never written the people I wanted to write all that time in television.

I would pretend Bill Cosby was my father. I would pretend that Farrah Fawcett was a woman I temped with at Merrill Lynch. I would pretend that Ryan O'Neill was a lawyer I temped for who was bombastic in Irish. I mean, I did the whole thing, but I'd have to like place these people in a context of truth for me. So, and I would sneak things in, of course, that seemed to be about my heritage or seemed, but it never really added up. Now I was free. I could create worlds now.

Incumbent upon that, I would have to sell it. And that was not the hard part, but the obstacle in my own mental head to get over. So if anybody's listening to this, who can see it on the other side of that hurdle, but can't get over it, you simply have to remove it and say, no, I'm already there. I'm gonna write that this way. And that worked.

I think that's right. I think that the,. I think that the, and I think there's one of the reasons why you and I are such good pals is because at the core of it, at the core of everything is, fuck them if they don't like it. You know, this is what I gotta do. I gotta do this.

I can't not do it. And this is why I don't understand show business as it is now, because everybody is in show business. Here's your problem now. We don't have it'll change. But when a hedge fund owns you and they've never made a show, that's a problem. When when we would go to the networks five, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, when you walked in there, those people were trained by somebody

to be able to do something. And of course, then we leave the room and make fun of them. You know, when a very prominent producer put a dog in the show and I thought that, what does that solve, move or do? Okay, whatever, put the dog in the shell. What am I gonna do? That when you don't have that system that trains them, which was the studio system, studio system's very interesting. There must be something rotten and corrupt in there somewhere.

Because it keeps getting bashed. No, but it keeps getting bashed and reinvented. Have you, in our lifetime, we're going through what Clark Gable went through. What is this? Well, no, see, this is what I think it is. I think everybody's in show business and they're kind of right in the sense that, you know, everybody has their own little channel.

Everybody has their own thing. I'm going to, you know, everyone can tell their truth. Everyone gets their, their thing to say. Everyone gets their moment to, to, uh, which on one hand is good, but that's not fucking show business. That's just people talking like this. This is just people talking. This is not doing what we do.

This is just us talking. No. And I think this idea that, that, um, every conversation is a performance. You know, I don't, I don't subscribe to it, which is paradoxical because this is what we're doing right now. I don't subscribe to it, which is paradoxical because this is what we're doing right now. But the idea of everyone is, if everyone is in show business, there is no show business.

If everyone's telling a story, if everyone's special, then no one's special. That's your philosophical brain that's so interesting to me. But I don't think like that. If everybody's in show business, then there's no show business. I think part of the problem on the planet is that people are not in touch with their creative selves, their creativity.

That doesn't mean show business. Okay. It doesn't mean show business. All right, let's- A creative act. You're sounding like a nicer person than me, that's just making me feel uncomfortable. No.

I'll go with it. I'm no way a nicer person than you. Oh, you most certainly are. I'm going to dispute that, okay? Yeah. You're a mean, softy. You know, as my grandmother used to say, a piece of bread. You're like a piece of bread, you know? But think about you is, you really are who you present yourself as. A lot of people aren't, but you have not wavered or changed once. Since the moment I met you, you're the same guy, which I find fascinating,

which must unnerve your wife, but she has my phone number. Very little unnairs my wife. No, I know. I know she's a toughie, but the point I'm making is that things in life change and you must move with it like a river. You know, part of our role as parents is to give it up, get out of the way. And we have to do that in our careers too.

We have to go, oh, this is what's happening? Now I have to go pitch to that guy? Who is he? Well, he's a very rich man from the Silicon Valley and he owns the studio now. And you go, but does he know? And those people are interesting because they have one or two movies

that are their favorite movies and they want to recreate the joy they had when they watched that movie. This is really interesting. It's an interesting time to be doing this. When I'm talking about people's creativity, I wish that there was a mission, that some country had a mission for everybody to write their life story before they die. Even the people in prisons, everybody, everybody has to give me a couple pages. Who are you? What did you do here? And what was your goal?

And what didn't happen? What happened? Now, isn't that interesting? If you could tap that creativity, obviously it's being tapped. 3.8 million books were self-published last year. It's being tapped. Who's reading these books? Well, they, they, they, they try to, this is where you and I step in. Cause we're salesmen. We could sell if we were, if everything was gone tomorrow, we would sit down and go, okay, I could go door to door and sell seeds. I could do,

I did it in third grade. I was number one. I could do it again. I could sell seeds, like to plant gardens, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or whatever it was. Rex cleaner I sold in the seventh grade and I wanted to win a bicycle. That is a name that I would like to have. Rex cleaner. or whatever it was, Rex Cleaner I sold in the seventh grade. And I wanted to win a bicycle. And- That is a name that I would like to have. Rex Cleaner. Rex Cleaner. In fact, from now on,

from now on, I want you guys to call me Rex Cleaner and ask me how, how are you doing, Rex? How you doing, Rex? Tops and pops! I'm Tops and pops Rex Cleaner. That's who I am. My God. So anyway, creativity, if we start looking at it like,

if we start looking at it with a wider lens and say everybody's included, look what happened. Everybody's got a phone and they're constantly filming themselves. From flattering angles. From flattering angles. Well, why do an unflattering angle? Yeah, I agree.

I mean, you just put that camera on the moon, shoot it, you know, whatever. I used to do that on late night. Nobody really knew. I picked up on that for ages. What did you do? Well, I had the camera set like that the whole time. Because when I walked out to do the first show on late night, I was looking at the monitor and I went, oh my God, look at my double chin.

I hate that. So I kept saying to the camera, up, and he'd go, this is weird. I'm like, up! And we got to the point where it didn't look like it. That look good. No, I remembered your body was, yeah, in alignment. And it was like,

yeah, well I do that naturally. Like the first thing I did is I check where that was. I should be up about two more feet, but it's okay. But that straight on. Oh, don't do that. It's not good. Do you know what I love?

You talk to people, my older friends, I'm not gonna say who they are. I know who they are. But when you get FaceTime and they just like hold it. What are they doing? Just see like teeth and stuff like that. What are they doing?

Amazing. And also look like they're, I don't know, about to- Or hold it to their ear and you can see their ear and stuff. Yeah, they don't know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, they don't know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time,

have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley,

comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free.

I'm Ebene and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the strength to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant,

but he wasn't shot on the street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going through something like that is a traumatic

experience but it's also not the end of their life. That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co-president of this organization Dr. Lea Traetate. On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering

as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's walk in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and batter than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila.

And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. With guests like Corinne Stephens.

I've never seen so many women protect predatory men. And then me too happen. And then everybody else want to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. My oldest daughter, her first day of ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing. She was like, oh dad, all they were doing was talking about your thing in class. I ruined my baby's first day of high school. And slumflower. What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh my god, it's go time.

You actually sent it? Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. The iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. I have to say this because this is what I learned when I was very young.

I went to a talk Arthur Miller did at the Dramatist Guild. Yeah, he could write a book. Okay. Arthur Miller, who wrote Death of a Salesman, Handsome guy, tall, slim, he's also a hottie. So I'm in the audience, maybe 100 people there, cause when I was young I went to everything. So he comes out and there's a lady in a funny hat and I went, oh no, cause you know if you sign books

in Manhattan all the crazies come out and they're just badgering you and screaming at you and throwing shit at you. But this is at the drama school and the lady got up and he gave his talk and she said, well Mr. Miller, it's easy for you to say because you're six, I think she was a little drunk, I think it's just successful. And he listened and he said, Mama, thank you for your question. But here's what you need to know. In every generation since the beginning of time, very few playwrights are born.

But now we have an industry that siphons off the few good ones. Think about this. And commands that everybody be a playwright in order to produce the amount of material, this is the 80s for television, to produce the amount of material that needs to serve the billions of people that are watching, millions and billions of people.

He said, but that doesn't mean that suddenly we have a lot more playwrights. We don't. So you're going to have excellence and then you're going to have everybody else falling in someplace. But that has always stuck with me. So if I watch a show on television, I go playwright and not playwright. Not a playwright.

It's another thing, movie, playwright, not playwright, playwright. So it goes like that. But I think he's right. The ability to dramatize is a very unique talent. The ability to put a story on its feet through words. That's what dramatizing means. Can I get you up there, another actor, and you guys do this, play that scene? That is, that takes

not only a wide lens, but particular lenses to pull off, an understanding of every character on an equal basis with the other to weight it properly. So what Bill Persky taught me was that Bill Persky created that girl, Kate and Allie. He's a great, he's like a mentor of mine. He did Working It Out. And he said, and I'm going to misquote him, but it's close, television. Keep in mind, he started on the Dick Van Dyke show. I've heard of it. One of the greatest shows ever, ever made on the Dick Van Dyke show. I've heard of it.

One of the greatest shows ever ever made. Ever made, yeah. Ever made. He started out on that show. He was trained by Carl Reiner. Okay? So now you know the pedigree. Yeah, that's special. So then he became a showrunner, a director, and had great success. But he said this to me, here's the problem with TV. The people writing it now watched it and they copy it. They copy it.

So the plots that you see, these plots that are just, there's not, you try to impose original characters in the old plots or whatever the gig is. And the people hiring you have an idea of what a show should be. And it isn't a new creative idea, it's something that resonated with them back in the day. See, I think that to extrapolate that though,

I think people watch TV with their phone in their hand. And I've heard executives say the phrase, it doesn't have to screen ability. It doesn't have to screen life about scripts where we have to have something like, who was it that really, oh yeah, Robert Siegel, who he hates Emily in Paris. And he was saying that Emily, he fucking hates it. It's hilarious. And he was saying that that's a two screen show. You can see that that's the show where people can play, be on Instagram.

And- There's always been two screen shows. It's just, you didn't have a second screen to refer to. You were flipping through a magazine. You didn't make them on purpose though. I mean, you didn't have a second screen to refer to, you were flipping through a magazine. You didn't make them on purpose though. I mean, you didn't make a movie thinking that people were gonna take a-

You don't think the people making Emily in Paris think they're doing great art? I bet they do. No, look, I've never seen Emily in Paris. I haven't either, let's not pick on it, but they think they are. No, I disagree, I disagree. I think they use. No, I disagree. I disagree.

I think they use the word content. They don't use the word art. They use the word content. We have to get more content. Well, now you're getting to it. What's the difference between content and art as a soul? I am not one. No, it's not.

I think- Yeah, it is. No, I think the difference- What are you talking about? Well, what's the difference then? The difference is between pop music and rock and roll. This is a phrase by Robert Fripp, right? Who is the guitar player.

Robert Fripp, who played... Who did he play for? He played for everybody. He played for Bowie, he played the talking heads. He was the guy that invented this. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The vibrato guitar. Yeah.

Robert Fripp said... you are a different, the difference between rock and roll and pop music is this, in pop music someone falls in love, in rock and roll someone gets fucked. That's the difference. And I thought, yeah, I think that is the difference. That's a very good analysis. Yeah. But as the people that write that music, like Bob Gadio from the Four Seasons, who wrote short shorts, and his family survived on short shorts for years, he was the first guy to sell the commercials. I told him. I feel bad now because short shorts is a great song. Because you don't have to learn any words. You wear short shorts, I wear short shorts,

you wear short shorts. Yeah, you can learn it in two seconds. But he was the first guy to sell to the commercials. Now they sell their catalogs and the great songs you're going to hear born to run on a car commercial if you haven't already. All of that is immaterial to what I'm saying. What I'm trying to get at here in terms of art, here's the difference. Art is the journey of a soul. AI is the journey of a robot and a computer

and artificial intelligence. And they keep trying to sell it to us. I'm telling you, they keep trying to sell it to us, but it doesn't have a soul. And I, listen, I joined the, I want to hear it. Wasn't I supposed to do that movie? No, I'm doing a movie about AI, about like, it's like a documentary.

I'm doing it right now, because they've invented an AI comedy program. And they're putting together this AI standard. Well, I can't wait to see what it is, but what's missing from it that you have to provide? I'm not providing anything for it. I'm very skeptical about the whole thing. I'm like you, I don't feel like it can be done, but there's some guys in Silicon Valley

think it can and we're getting into it a little bit. Because sometimes we make bad movies and bad television shows and write lousy books. And so those people who have the dough, well, the people that have the dough think, well, if they could do that, I could do this. It looks deceptively easy, but to create a world is not easy. No.

And it takes- But it's gotta look easy. It's gotta look easy. That's the trick. That's the hat trick of the whole thing. But the journey of the soul is what binds us as human beings, not. It takes us back to the Catholic plays on the bus where we have to, you know. What do we know?

What do we know about what we do is that. What do we know about what we do is that our job is to connect to that person, whoever we decided is in our subconscious imagination or whatever, or whoever we see out there. That is our job and they have to know within two minutes of sitting in that seat why they are there. Now, if you think, I don't think you get two minutes. I think you get 20 seconds. Well, you get 20 seconds now, right?

Ruth Getz would amend that, but she's been dead for 20 years, but my playwriting mentor, but they have to know you need to dramatize why they're there. I feel like though, and we have to wrap this up, but very quickly. Why?

I've got hours to go, miles to go before I sleep. Look at Tomás, Tomás has been asleep for 30 minutes now. I'm gonna scroll through Instagram and stuff. Tomás is like, oh, please wrap this up, it's getting very esoteric. I feel like, cause you and I are both fans of first lines in books and that does it. That does it.

My favorite first line of any book is, it was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking 13. This is the first line of 1984. And I feel like in that first line of, or it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Yeah, it's a good one. You know, it's like right away you go, shit's happening, something weird has happened.

The clocks are striking 13, what the fuck is going on? What the, you know, it's like you kick off and I feel like that's okay, I get that. I don't mind that, but it's nice to have something to, like that line on its own isn't much good unless you've got 1984 behind it. And I feel like, you know what, also I'm 63 years old now. I mean, it's part of my, what I have to do is, is be cranky about new art.

Well, you were cranky at 22, but let me point this out. Don't try to fob that off on your age. That's your nature that you were born with. Now born to crank would be a great time. Baby, we were born to crank. Poor Bruce Springsteen. He's going through it right now. But anyway, um, this, this, this makes me think of something. If, if, well, well, you know, if, this AI thing,

you know, I'm now on the author's guilt and all we do is file lawsuits against it, which is effective, it's effective. But what I'm learning from other writers is that, hey, we can't be replaced, we can't be replaced. We can't be, but we can in a poor fashion. So it is incumbent upon us to deliver storytelling that no machine can do.

So what does that mean? Means that we're going back to what Arthur Miller said, which is there's only a few playwrights and every day else's, which is great. Now we're done. We're done with this. This podcast. My God. You are just so, you really wrap it up so rudely.

The people watching are like, what an asshole. What is wrong with him? I know, I know. Is there a clock ticking? I can't tell. There's so many animal heads in here. I'm afraid. Yeah, there are no real animal heads.

I keep looking for a clock. There's no real animal heads. There's a clock right behind you. Yeah, but that's behind me. I can't turn because I'm on your show. You can turn. Oh, I see it. Yeah, that's large.

Okay. Yeah. And his face is right at me. But how rude. But see, I didn't take this back to my Catholic thing. I can't be rude. I would never look. I would just refer to you. But you called me an asshole, which is fairly rude. No, I didn't call you one. It's a behaving like one, which is different. Did I call you one?

You have done. You may have done it in this book, guys. You've certainly in her. No, no, no. I think you know how much I love you. Yeah, and I love you too. And that is a good place to stop. Get out of here. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated.

I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast

Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, the Saint It. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft, and whole. The Unwanted Sorority is where Black women, Femmes, and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support, and what happens after. And I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea TraTate.

Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Adventures should never come with a pause button. Remember MoviePass? All the movies you wanted for just nine bucks? I'm Bridget Todd, host of There Are No Girls On The Internet. And this season, I'm digging into the tech stories

we weren't told, starting with Stacey Spikes, the black founder of MoviePass, who got pushed out of the company he built. Everybody's trying to knock you down and it's not gonna work and no one's gonna like it. And then boom, it's everywhere. And that was that moment. Listen to There Are No Girls On The Internet

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.