Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Denise Mina

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Meet Denise Mina, a very close friend of mine and an absolute genius Scottish crime writer and playwright. She has won numerous awards for her writing, including but not limited to the John Creasey Dagger for Best First Crime Novel, The Martin Beck Award, and Theakston’s Old Peculier Crime Novel of the Year Award. We reminisce on fond memories and discuss why you should never sit in the sleepy chair. I laughed my ass almost completely off and also learned stuff. Win win. EnJOY!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia keys like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by HoneyGerman, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking music, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening

in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello?

And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child. These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Craig Ferguson pants on fire tour is on sale now. It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid it's still only me, Craig Ferguson. On my own, standing on a stage, telling comedy words. Come and see me. Buy tickets. Bring your loved ones.

Or don't come and see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones. I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but you should at least know it's happening. And it is. The tour kicks off late September and goes through the end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at thecraigfergussonshow.com

slash tour. They're available at thecraigfergussonshow.com slash tour or at your local outlet in your region. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. local outlet in your region. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Ah yes, my guest today is one of my oldest friends.

When I say one of my oldest friends, she's younger than me, but I've known her for a very long time. She gets very uncomfortable when I say how clever she is, but she's very clever. She's a great writer and she's a great person, and her name is Denise Mina. Hi. Hello, Belle. Hello,lin'. How are you? You know I'm okay. How are you doing? Yeah, I'm not bad at all. Yeah, not bad. I've got massive gastroenteritis. I'm just going to be like Deirdre Barlow-ing it the whole time. Well, I think for our American listeners, we have to explain who Deirdre Barau is before we go any further.

She was a soap star in Britain in the seventies. She was famous for wearing gigantic, eye obscuring glasses. So she looked like a serial killer, but she didn't kill anybody, I don't think. Well, I don't think, I think the show she was on was Coronation Street, right? Mm-hmm. And Coronation Street is the longest running soap opera, I think, in the world. Yeah. I think it is.

I think you're right. And I think that by now they've probably had at least one. My guess is they've had at least one serial killer storyline by now. No, you don't understand. Nope, you're wrong. Already? They have to stay on brand, you see? So it's like certain, certain magazines will only have people falling over. They won't have, they won't have violence.

They won't have, so maybe someone fell over or maybe several people fell over into the synesthesia of the same person, but I very much doubt they had a serial killer. It's so off brand. Well, but I see, I think that if someone falls over and dies, maybe towards the end of a season and that happens a few times, we've got to think we might have a serial killer on our hands today. A serial topler, that would be more. A serial pushing people over. Luke, I'm not trying to steer your career in any way, but I think an idea for a book, next book could be the pushing people over, making it look like the

fell serial killer. I think that's a cute thing, something in real life. There probably has actually. One of the things that I really kind of, cause you and I have known each other since I think even before you wrote your first book. Wow. I actually yes. That's well, so I mean, there have been times when, you know, I've thought, cause I've known you for such a long time that you, I read everything you do because I like it.

And it's, it's tricky because sometimes when you have a friend who writes and you're like, oh yeah, that was good, but it wasn't that good. But I have read everything you've done and I You've just slugged my whole career. No, I didn't slged my whole career. No, I didn't slug your whole career. This is the opposite of that. What I'm saying is I've read it all and what I was trying to get to is, was that the, you

are, I always think of someone who's very positive and cheerful and you kind of, you head towards positivity all the time and you've almost done that and all the time I've known you. And yet some of your work is the darkest I've ever read. That's part of the reason why I love it so much. And I wonder if, what do you think that is? Do you think you get out all your dark shit when you're writing? is that what it is? I don't think so. I think we tend to think of light and dark as binaries and actually there's a lot more mix and I see that in your comedy all the time. How dare you. You should slay him by entire career.

But things that you find really, really, really funny are very, very dark. Like, I mean, I remember you being unable to stop laughing because you were describing yourself sitting on the end of the bed in your vest and pants having a breakdown. Yeah. Yeah. It's not great. And I think actually, what does lightness do? Do you know what I mean?

It makes the dark bearable and actually it's kind of like it's like only eating salt or only eating meat. I mean you really want them together. Do you know what I mean? And I think people always say that to crime writers, you're all so jolly, do you get all your darkness out on the page? And it's like no, we are really kind of thicc fucks. I think that or very well adjusted in the fact that you understand because when you And it's like, no, we are really kind of like fox. I don't know that are very well adjusted in the fact that you understand, because when you describe the idea of being able to keep light and darkness and, you know, and it's all, you know, it's a spectrum or a flavor in a recipe.

I think that's a very healthy, well adjusted way of looking at things. But I think there's a couple of times, there's a couple of instances, I can't remember. Oh God, there was one of the books, I can't remember the exact book, but it was about a horrible killy person that was going into a room to, and he didn't know what he was gonna go in,

but he was gonna fuck it when he got in there. That was the phrase they said, do you remember that? That book? Yeah, I do. That's about as twisted and hard as anything I've ever read. And the knowledge of that, see, I think I try and keep darkness away by what I do. And I think you're quite brave. I think you just like let it roll in.

I don't think you are keeping it. I mean, stand up in front of people. I'm just saying that it's what I'm trying. I don't know. I mean, I think if you really love the world and you really love life and you really love people, you have to be able to see both sides. And everything gets heightened. If you have a very boring narrative and the stakes are low and everything is very heightened. That's one of the reasons I love horror so much is because things are funny. I don't think you really do, you know, yourself any favors by trying to sanitize everything. Life isn't vanilla, you know?

Yeah, I know. I know. I can't think of anything darker than standing up in front of an audience full of people and trying to make them laugh. Well certainly it has, Have you never tried it? I couldn't do it because if the audience hate me, I just, I don't care. I've died. Really? I've died when I was talking. Oh, so badly. I was in front of 500 people, there was a whole lot going on. I gave an after dinner speech and everyone hated me. I mean it was tangible. You could feel the hate and

I insulted everybody and then I doubled down on it by saying, I don't care what you think. And then I said, thank you for giving me this appalling experience to tell in another occasion. That sounds like a lot of stand-up comedy performances particularly in the early years that when you start to love it, when you start to look for that failure I think that that's that's what it is, that's when you know you are. I don't know, I wouldn't give up on your stand up career just yet. I think it might be one, but it's part of life now for authors, isn't it? That you have to do all that. You have to be much more social. Much more social. And I've got about two and a quarter hours of social in me. And then

I start to actually kind of see things, or if I have to go to the toilet, because I'm really introversive. There's a thing at London book club and it was a poster on the back of the wall from the Finnish Book Society. And it was a picture of a woman with her knickers around her ankles sitting on the toilet and it said, thank God I'm finally alone. I understand it. I understand why is why is what do you think the the thing is that people have to have a connection particularly with crime writers?

I think that although I feel like and I mean this as a hundred percent as a compliment. I feel you've kind of tracet transcended that a wee bit. You you've kind of priced out a wee bit from only writing about, you know, you never really only wrote about crime anyway, because it was always at a psychological and a personal kind of depth to it. It wasn't kind of like just procedural. But with crime writers, if you're perceived to be a crime writer, you have to go to these conventions and people need a connection with you. What do you think that's about?

I have no idea because these audiences are not really our readers. It's all women who look a bit like me. So I'm just in a room full of women of my age who look a bit like me. That's not who reads my books. and I'm not that interesting on stage. You're listening right now. It's quite banal. I mean, I don't have the answers to anything. Yeah, I don't really don't know what it's about. It's kind of what it is. There's a lot of collectors. Do you think maybe it's aspirational? If you're talking about, there's a lot of women who look like you in the audience, but they don't buy your book. Do they want to be writing your book? Do you think that it's aspirational? If you're talking about, there's a lot of women who look like you in the audience, but

they don't buy your book. Do they want to be writing your book? Do you think that's what it is? There's a lot of questions about how do you, do you write with a pen or a pencil? Do you, where'd you get your ideas from? You know, all that stuff. Which leads me to my next question. I remember a hundred years ago, you saying to me, where did you get your ideas for your

feminism from? I did not say that. You did say that. You did say that. No, you're confusing me with somebody else. I feel like I know where you get, I feel like you've never been kind of reticent about telling me where you get your ideas for your feminism from. I don't think I need to push you for it.

It's funny though. I mean, it's such a strange thing though, because I was thinking today before we started talking about when you and I met, like, which is, you know, it's about 30 something years ago now, like it's really a long time. And that kind of strange... We're old. We're so old. Well, yeah, but we look fantastic. So I think it's okay. We kept our hair, Craig. We kept our hair and we both moisturised.

And I think that's, that's the key. And we can't take the sun. Well, I had to move from LA. It was too much. I've had zaps. You haven't had things zapped off of you. I've got age spots that I've had to zapped off of you, I've got age spots that I've had to have taken off. No, from being in LA? Yeah. I live in Scotland. I've got my hands as well from driving.

Why, no, no, no. I know, you sit like that and your knuckles got all age spots on them. Wow, I live where the sun don't shine, so I'm fine. You do, you live in Glasgow, which I've always been very envious that you, I, I like, I love Glasgow, but I always have a complicated relationship with it. You seem to be very at home there. Uh, like you, you know, I mean, I've seen you ride about your bike and you wave to people and you're kind of quiet.

You say you're not social, but I feel like you're very social in Glasgow. I feel you're very much part of the community. Well, yeah, I suppose so. But I mean, I didn't grow up here. So my dad was an oil engineer and I grew up in Paris and Norway and London and Amsterdam because he was a draftsman. So Glasgow is sort of where I chose because I grew up in South London as well. So I feel like you probably feel the way about Glasgow that you do about places that you choose to stay. You know what I mean? It's a different relationship. That's funny because you've got a very Parisian and Norwegian accent that I think is...

Do you speak Norwegian? Yeah, beyond a hon snickers. Good. Is that true? That is true. Is it really? That's me asking for a Snickers. I know the Snickers I got. That's the extent of my Norwegian. But that's as much as you get out, because if you even get on the bus and say I'm a barn, they say, oh, you're an English speaker, because they know your accent's rubbish.

Oh yeah. And everyone's fluent, you know? I know. Mexican people do that to me in Los Angeles. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I And everyone's fluent, you know? I know.

Mexican people do that to me in Los Angeles. I try and speak Spanish and they smile indulgently and then just speak English to me, which is kind of embarrassing, but also there's a kindness to it as well. But why did you choose Glasgow then? If you went, because your family was from there, is that why? Well, to be honest, I took a lot of drugs and I kind of blacked out and woke up here. That is essentially what happened. And my mum was here because my parents had just split up and she said, you can

sleep on my couch. So it was a very thought out life plan. I mean, I had to, you know. out life plan. I mean, I had, you know, I've taken a lot of drugs and woken up places and thought that I don't want to live here. I want to live somewhere else. But Glasgow at that time, it was 80s, right? So everyone with any ambition left. That's right. And they all went to where I'd been living, because I'd been living in South London, which was Thatcher, you know, I mean, it was like, you know, capitalism on steroids.

And I came to Glasgow and there were all these beautiful buildings. You couldn't get anywhere to live in London as well. We were all squatting. And you came to Glasgow and it was like, you know, these, you could get these rooms that were like ballrooms and you could rent them for 20 quid a week. And it was like West Berlin. It was like an abandoned city that nobody wanted to live in. And you know, there's a lot of freedom in that, you know, and I just completely fell in love with it. And also people were quite kind to each other, you know, they would chat to each other

and they would, you know, ask how you were and then they would listen to how you were. I mean, it was just a really odd place, you know? Does it still, does it still have that? Cause it's funny, I don't know, it's my hometown, but I don't feel that way about it at all. I mean, it's, does it still have that you think? It really has that. But I have to say you are from Cumbernauld, which is like... Well, I'm not, I'm from Springburn, but I grew up in Cumbernauld, which is not good. I'm from East Kilbride.

Right, it's very similar. I didn't move back to East Kilbride. I think East Kilbride was the Catholic version of Cumbernauld. I think there are Catholics in Cumbernauld that would be outraged by that statement. I think a lot of the Catholics moved to East Kilbride and a lot of the, and these are new towns, these are like 70s towns that were built to ease the housing shortage and they're quite far away from the city and they're very different than the actual city. The actual city feels very glamorous in comparison to that. power of life. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know

what is going to come for you. Alicia Keys opens up about conquering doubt, learning to trust herself, and leaning into her dreams. I think a lot of times we are built to doubt the possibilities for ourselves. For self-preservation and protection it was literally that step by step and so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. This increment of small determined moments. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude and the power of love. I forgive myself.

It's okay. Like, grace. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, everyone. video app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan. Anya and I met through hockey and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers, ages 2 and 4. And on our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, we're opening up about the chaos of our daily lives between the juggle of being athletes, raising children and all the messiness in between. We're also turning to fellow athletes and beyond to learn about their parenthood journeys

and collect valuable advice. Like FIFA World Cup winner, Ashlyn Harris. I wish my village would have prepared me for how hard motherhood was going to be. And Peloton instructor and Ratchet Mom Club founder, Kirsten Ferguson. And I remember going in there, hot mess. Listen to Moms Who Puck on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles and successes.

You know, it's going to be filled with cheese man laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, El Te Caliente and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I always thought that, I always thought like the West End of Glasgow to me, and it still kind of does actually when I go there, I feel like it has a kind of, it feels like Paris or the Upper West Side of New York or something like that. It's got a sort of glam about it. It was just strange, but it's true. And you and I both worked in the Ubiquitous Chip bar as well. Which seems to, and Kelly McDonald worked there as well. And I think, I think if you were, if you were an artist of a particular type, you had to spend at least a year working as a waiter in the Ubiquitous Chip.

Everyone I know works in the chip. Everyone I know works in the chip. It was amazing. For people who don't know that it's a restaurant and it was named after a line in a play about Scottish cuisine and the line was, you know, over boiled potatoes, ruined vegetables, and of course the ubiquitous chip. So it's a fine dining restaurant called after that. It's called the ubiquitous chip. So it's quite pretentious and it was full of pretentious wankers like us. We had aspirations. Do you know what I mean? We had aspirations.

But you were sober when you worked there, weren't you? I wasn't. I was still drinking when I was working there because I remember how much I, it was a real illustration because I would work in the bar and I wouldn't be able to drink that much while I was working the bar and I would see people drink that first and foremost lager. And it was like people that would come in normal and go fucking crazy after like four pints. And I kind of think there was some information about me and that this is what you are like, Craig, when you start drinking it. I think it began to kind of sink in a bit because there's a lot of Bach and Aelion behaviour in that. I don't know if there still is, but there certainly was in the 80s. Is there really? Is it still there?

Oh yeah, it's still mental. There's a roof garden now where everyone goes up and smokes hash and pretends they're not smoking hash. But there used to be a spiral staircase down to the toilets. Yeah. And we installed a video camera. I'm sure you remember, I'm sure your face remembers it. We had a video camera at the top and at the end of the night we used to say, time gentlemen, please. And the bar would empty and then we'd all stand and watch the video

monitor and kill ourselves laughing. I remember working there, you would get an extra four pounds on your shift, an extra four quid if you cleaned up, if you took the bucket and cleaned up any sec. So if there was any vomit lying around, you would get an extra four quid on top of yourself. I always would do it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sometimes it was my sick. Well, just to give you some idea of the management of that place, they adored you, right? Cause you weren't even famous when I worked there. I worked there after you. I was not drinking. They hated me. They could never remember. They did not like me. They thought I was a torn face bitch.

Every time they had a party, they'd give you all presents and everybody would get whiskey and I would get a bottle of Blanc de Blanc because they couldn't remember that I didn't drink. I mean, it was just like, you just were very suspicious of me. You have just described my exact experience of 23 years in Hollywood. Oh really? Yeah. exact experience of 23 years in Hollywood. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. I felt like I, like I was there and they kind of tolerated me, but it was like, no,

you are not part of this. We are a different gang to you. And it's, but I wondered if that's, if you choose that a little bit, cause you and I are quite similar. You and I could be brother and sister really, I think. And people have said that. I think we might be some way back. Same space. Which is great because I'm glad that we never like kissed or anything when we were drinking.

That would have been bad. Especially. Although I would have done it, but I don't think you would have done it. I don't think you. Remember, because you and I didn't even know this until years later that you interviewed me for boyfriend job and and I failed terribly. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I remember like when we went to St. Andrews, remember, and we had a drive, we drove up to St. Andrews and walked around the graveyard and I thought we were on a day

out and then you told me when you were on the late night show that you had interviewed me, you may have just been kidding me though, I think now as I think about it, I think you were just fucking with me. You said that I was interviewing you for the job of boyfriend, but you just talked about yourself the whole time and I got bored. I was just saying that. That does sound true. That's all I could think about at the time. I mean, I struggle with it now. Did we go all the way to some

Andrews? I think we did. Cause I remember, I remember specifically it was, uh, we remember that big old Mercedes that I had, I looked like I was an African ambassador or something. That was a lovely car. That was a lovely car. Great car. And, and I, uh, we drove up to St.

Andrews and we were walking around the graveyard. Uh, because I think that's, we were both, you don't remember any of this? I remember being stuck on a wall and thinking, I should have thought this when I got on the wall. I'm freezing on a wall. It's too high. Yeah, you were. I remember fish and chips and I remember saying, that's all, that's kind of, but I do remember that car, it was lovely.

I remember walking around the graveyard and you saying, look at all these poor bastards, they all thought it was so important. And I thought, God, that really stuck with me. It's one of those things is I was still vibrating. You had cleaned up your life a couple of years ahead of me. And I was still vibrating from like coming off, uh, the alcohol and drugs and thinking, trying to figure out how, how you could possibly live a life and be creative and all that old shit that people believe about alcohol and drugs.

You know, that, you know, I love the fact that your output, certainly mine, but yours, it seems to be all post sobriety, all your, like the real surge of, of what you do is after you go sober. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just wasn't capable before. I find it hard enough sober to be honest with you because it is, uh, you know what I mean? It is like, you're not going to face to face with your own limitations. And if you're drinking on top of that, you just go out and have an affair. Do you know what I mean?

You just find some other way to distract yourself or get involved in a fight. Well, yeah, we can do both in the same night. It's funny though, cause I think of you as being someone who is like, your output is prolific and has never, I mean, I know it makes you uncomfortable when I say how much I enjoy your work and that's pretty much, that's one of the reasons why I bring it up so often because I enjoy seeing you get uncomfortable about it. I just think you're lying.

No, I'm not lying. I'm absolutely not. What else are you going to say? I'm right here. I'm right here. What else are you going to say? Yeah, but I'm not going to say anything that I remember because, and it's an interesting thing because I had to train myself to stop doing something similar. Like if somebody came to see me in a show and then they came backstage afterwards and they would, if they said something like that was a great show, I would tell

them why it wasn't a great show. I would say, no, it wasn't a good one tonight. You should have been here last night or, uh, and I had to stop doing that because you, you take people's enjoyment away a wee bit from it. And, and I wonder, it's quite an interesting thing because with the writing, cause I've written a wee bit, but, but, but the, the writing that you do is so, I can imagine it like, and maybe I'm wrong, you tell me, but it seems like it would take over your, every thought process you had going to be very

kind of insular. And then it belongs to everybody else. And they have to tell you what they think about it and how, and they're part of it now, but they weren't really part of it. They just kind of consume it. It's a different, it's a weird thing. I think it must be strange to discuss your work with people who have different opinions about your work with people who have different

opinions about your work than you do. Do you know, even if it's the same opinion, it is like, I mean, I can say rude words, can't I? It is like someone appearing at your house to discuss your masturbatory style. It's kind of like, how the fuck is this anything to do with you? Which leads me to my next question. But you know, I mean, it's like, you know, you work on something really intensely for a year and a half, you research it and you go in that world, you create a world, you know all the people in it, you're really, really involved.

And then a journalist writes two paragraphs telling you what they think of it. And you're kind of like, who the fuck are you to me? I don't know you, fuck off. And then you meet them and they're lovely and you have to say, oh, thanks for the great review. You past remarkable bastards. I know. It's a very, it's a conflicting opinion. You know what I hate is, is the tendency now to the top 10 list of everything. Like, so the, the, I mean, it's really bad, I think in the world of books, where it's, you know, the best sellers. So if a book sells more than another book,

it's a better book than the other book, which I think is beyond fucking ludicrous, but it's with everything. Everything has that. That's just saying that the market is the measure of everything. But like you must see standups who are terrible and they're just doing a small echo of brilliant work and they're copying other people. Sometimes they're lifting jokes and they're storming and everyone thinks they're a genius. And, you know, I think there are comedians who are they really there for people who don't have a sense of humor. Oh, that's mostly what it is.

But they like laughing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So they're kind of doing a performance of stuff other people do. And that's for the mass market. You know? Does that happen? Does that happen in, I guess that does happen in crime books for sure.

I've read crime books and I've been like, wait a minute, I've come across this style of this, even this story before. Do you get, do you get antsy about people nicking your stuff? No, not at all. Because I know stand-ups are paranoid about it all the time. No you can't, you'd go mad. You have to, I mean, sometimes I do actually take photographs of massive bestsellers' paragraphs on them and I read them over to give myself a good laugh because it's like,

if I wrote that, I'd be too embarrassed to write the house. I know. You know, we're trying to do different things, you know. I know. But you must get, you must get like, you know, those, those bestsellers, a lot of those are manipulated. It's about the number they produce. It's about the number, you know, where they buy them.

New York Times bestseller, the actual bestseller thing, I think is heavily manipulated. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. I know that because I've been on, I've been on the receiving end of it both times. I mean, you know, when, when my book wasn't being sold in the right place and when it was. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I mean, I see a lot of books on that. You don't see anywhere in anyone's house.

No one's reading them. You know what I mean? So you don't want to worry about the market because it's a one to one relationship if you're writing books. It's you and the reader and I always kind of imagine they're reading in a really comfy chair and I'm sort of leaning over their shoulder and whispering the story in their ear. Okay, that's quite creepy, especially with some of the stuff that you write. That's very bad. Well, I don't want you to, I just imagine that.

Don't get scared when you're writing something scary? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Really scared. And then I think that I think that's brilliant. I think I might have done something really clever there. And then I go to bed and I get up the next morning and read it. And it's usually absolute garbage. You know, I think that, yeah, it's anything written after sundown is and I've written after sundown is shit Yeah, if I write in fact, I won't I'll never send a text to an email after it gets dark because I'll probably regret it

Any claim and on the 30 plus years of years of knowing you I've never said at any point I'm a fucking barometer for mental health. I've never said that. I never said that to anyone. You know, in fact, the people... You never take someone and say, are you watching Bake Off or? No, no. You and Megan do that. You have that kind of you talk to each other. Megan, of course, being my wife, you guys talk to each other in a way that I don't do. I may be with Megan.

Like, I'll text her if I'm on the road, I'll talk to her in the text and stuff like that. But that's that's about it. How do you know who to hate on Bake Off, Ben? How do you know who's attractive? I can't. I don't hate. The Bake Off is one of the few things that I can watch without any negative feeling at all other than sadness for the people who are leaving. It's a fucking national, a world treasure, the Great British Bake Off. I'm worried about the waste. It's so

wasteful. They're always saying, I made this cornucopia of shortbread yesterday. And I'm like, well, what happened to that one? Well, they give it to the crew. Do you know that? Because I thought about that. Did you? Yeah, the crew gets it. The people who work on the Bake Off, they're all like, you know, £500. You've made that so much better for me. I'm delighted.

No, no, no, they don't, they don't throw it out. People eat it and stuff like that. Or I think they give it to needy, uh, you know, people in society. Homeless people that need a cake. That's, that's, that's. Homeless people that need a, a gaso in the shape of Freddie Mercury. They are lovely though. I think that, do you bake? I used to bake, but I'm so compulsive. I would like make a tray bake and then I would eat

the tray bake and then I'd be sick and then I'd bake another one. I very much identify with that. But I think because every time, like in the last, I don't know, four or five years or more, every time I've seen, most of the time I've seen you is in your kitchen. You know, you spittle. The parliament of the house. It really is. I mean, your kitchen in particular, you have a giant teapot and usually good cakes and then, you know, very deep, it's a salon environment, Denise. Do you have other writers in there for like Dorothy Parker type round table shit?

Well, you know, because I mean, I'm quite dull because I don't drink, so we do have soup Sunday. So we do have like once a year, we'll have a lot of writers around and we'll all eat soup and complain about our income and Actually it's weird because you would think that we would be making statements about the nature of life We're talking about literature. Mostly what we're talking about is times we made fools of ourselves over the course of the year So the winning prize this year was Louise Welsh, who's a fantastic Scottish writer. He was telling the story about being, she was being translated during a tour of

Germany by someone who was also a clown, but in the old tradition. That's awesome. So the clown was doing... No, no. It's awesome. So the clown was doing... No, no. That's fantastic. But he didn't clown up until the very last, and then on the very last event, which was a big deal in Berlin, he said, I want to do my act before you come on and talk about literature. So he clowned up, died, because the audience weren't there to see a clown, and then insisted on remaining in his clown outfit to translate Louise talking about him.

Oh jeez, that seems... where to make it about you? I think if you're the translator you shouldn't really be trying to make it about, I want to be a clown. I mean it's not your day. But as Louise says. We're all quite mild people. We're really up for adventures. You know what I mean? So mostly it's like one of us falling over and someone coming over and kicking you and then a dog humping your leg and then people queue up and buy your book.

And then the conclusion of it is, Oh, do you know what I mean? The clown thing is great though. Did you ever write about, I feel like clowns are, I'm one of the people that believes that clowns are intrinsically, you know, it's an evil thing. It's a way to hide, maybe even stand up. Do you think, have you written yet the serial killer clown book? Or are you working on it right now? I'm working on it right now. Obviously this is my next pitch. No, I'm not. Because I really liked the book you wrote about Mary Queen of Scots, pal Rizzio, right? Rizzio, right? Rizio, yeah.

Rizio, yeah. And that was, I really loved that. And you actually turned a corner for me because through that, because it was your, as far as I know, that was your first historical fix. And the long drop was sort of set in a period in time, but that was the 1960s.

So it's kind of, you know, sort of in living memory sort of thing. But Rizzo was Mary Queen of Scots. And because I loved that so much, you know what I started doing is reading Gore Vidal's historical novels. They're fantastic. He's such a great writer though. He's so good. Oh my God. He's a great stylist. Yeah.

Beautiful. I mean, amazing. I'm reading right now, creation. Have you read creation? No. It's set during the Persian Greek wars, 500 years BC. It's fucking amazing then. I mean, because you're right. It's not in it, you're not in it in the sense of like the other Berlin girl. And I mean, it's really, it feels, I mean, there's a bit of that, but it's more kind of, it's so vivid and contemporary that you really believe the people. And that's why I wanted, that's why I wanted to, cause I feel like

it's part of my job as your friend to push you and annoy you into directions so that you actually think about doing work that I've enjoyed before. And I think that I'd like to push you into more historical work cause you have that, excuse me, you have that gift of making people who have been dead for hundreds and hundreds of years like they're in the next room with a fucking iPhone. And that's great. That's a rare talent and you should do more of it. Okay, that's great. That's the talk tip. Right, good. So that's really good. And also put a clown in.

Shall I tell you the truth about that? Yeah. Shall I tell you the truth about that? Yeah. Tell you the truth about the rights. Yeah. You can't really make a living doing that. Right? So publishers and readers who read crime fiction, we are really greedy readers. Right?

So that's a living. Okay? So, but writing kind of, you know, very formed historical fiction. I wrote a book called Three Fires, which was about Savona Rola and Florence. Those books are really precious and I really love doing them. But you can't make a living doing that. So if you want to make a living and actually you want to talk about big themes, the vehicle for that is crime fiction. And I think crime fiction, because it's so familiar, we take it so for

granted, but actually there is, it is a very, very, very difficult thing to do. So for example, what I'm writing at the moment is a book about a forensic scientist who discovers that her discipline is bullshit. And, and, uh, which is quite, this is happening. I mean, science changes all the time, but what we're discovering now is that law is static, science changes. And you couldn't do that in any other context. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah.

But I mean, I love doing, I mean, for me, writing historical fiction or historical nonfiction fiction is as just as delicious as writing crime fiction, but they just aren't the sales in it. You might get one big book, but you don't get, you don't get like a readership or a dialogue. Right. I get it. I understand. You see what I'm saying? Oh yeah, I do. And I think it's an interesting thing because I think that, and I'm certainly guilty of it right, right now in this conversation, you forget that people have

to make a living. You know, particularly if they're in artistic endeavours, you forget about that. There are bills to pay. It's a job. Yeah, it's your life. It's your life. And you know, I think it's because of Byron. I read a brilliant biography of Byron and he came from money and refused to take money

from his books being published. And that is the model. We all act as refused to take money from his books being published. And that is the model. We all act as if no one's from a blue collar background. We've all got a trust fund as you and I both have. Nature's scum. Big old Irish face. Obviously we don't come from money.

Do you know what I mean? I mean, I think most people, you know what most people is. I, cause I remember even like when I was a kid, people saying, you know, like you would get asked in interviews, why did you take the part? And I would always like make up things like, Oh, I really liked the script. I never read the fucking script. I read my lines. I learned how much I would have to do. Because what you're really doing is money, is to make a living. Yeah. It's that, but you, your degree is in criminal law, though, isn't it?

Yeah, it's criminal law and forensic. So I did forensic science as honors. Yeah. And I won the prize, actually. I won the Gilbert for, actually the door was knocked after I graduated and it was the post day and I thought we were getting evicted from that dirty flat I used to live in. I wanted to talk to you about the sleepy chair in that flat because a lot of people don't know about the sleepy chair. And I think for I think the statute of limitations is up.

You can talk about that flat. But tell me what happened. The door, the door get knocked and what? It was really knocked and it was a, it was a, I had to sign for a parcel and it was, I'd won the prize for forensic science, the Gilbert Forbes gold medal. And I was like, they'd forgotten to give it to me at graduation. So I still have that actually. I've got it in my medicine cabinet. Yeah, that's, but that's fabulous. Congratulations.

I didn't know you'd won that prize. And I feel like I'm belated. I winked the wrong eye there. A wink and a salute is always a way of proving you're cooler than anyone else in the room. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia Keys opens up about conquering doubt, learning to trust herself, and leaning into her dreams.

I think a lot of times we are built to doubt the possibilities for ourselves. For self-preservation and protection, it was literally that step by step. And so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. This increment of small, determined moments. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Like, grace.

Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias Come Again, the podcast where or wherever you get your podcasts. conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme

laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, El Te Caliente and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everyone, I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York. And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan.

Anya and I met through hockey and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers ages two and four. And on our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, we're opening up about the chaos of our daily lives between the juggle of being athletes, raising children, and all the messiness in between. We're also turning to fellow athletes and beyond to learn about their parenthood journeys and collect valuable advice, like FIFA World Cup winner Ashlyn Harris.

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founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. But let's talk about the sleepy chair in your flat, because I think it's a story that... Have you written that into a book yet? No, I haven't. I've only just told you. Oh really? I think it's such a great thing.

So there was a chair in your flat. And I was living in a flat that was basically falling apart and you were up in it and it was, we were so poor. It was me and like four guys. We were so poor. We had done some decoration that we used knitting patterns for in the shape of a cross. But anyway, it was, you know, we were, we were all, I think we were all like kind of depressed and we were kind of like watching TV and you know we had this chair and we called it the sleepy chair because every time anyone sat in it they fell asleep and we were like yeah that's a sleepy chair and don't sit in a sleepy chair and then my partner and I bought that flat and did it up and when they came up to look

at it the place where the sleepy chair was they discovered there was a massive gas leak. You're so lucky nobody died in that chair. Oh my god, the whole thing could have blown up because we didn't have any heating in Scotland. So what we were doing was we were taking, we thought we were being very modern and we were taking the doors off the oven and just lighting it into the room and we were warming ourselves right next to the sleepy chair. Smoking, of course, we were all smoking. Fuck yeah, I know. I miss smoking. I really do. I don't miss alcohol at all and I don't

miss drugs. Well, maybe drugs a little bit, but fucking smoking. Oh, I miss it every day. Every day at some point I think I'd love a cigarette right now. Yeah. It's weird as I haven't smoked, how long since you've smoked a cigarette? Oh decades. Yeah me too. Yeah but look I'm still on the patches, still got your patch on. Still messing about trying to find a way to keep nicotine. I actually got so addicted to nicotine chewing gum, I ended up buying out of

date nicotine chewing gum from a dodgy chemist because it was half the price and I was using like three times as much as you're legally supposed to. But that's okay because it's probably, if it's out of date, it's half life is diminished, which means that you're probably just taking the regular amount. You and I should never enable each other. That's a terrible idea. It's like cheers. And then to me, there's like, there were robbing a post office, but I was on, I was telling somebody once about being on this TV show and, uh, and I said, she wasn't very nice

to me, it was a producer. It was a live TV show, it was going out at 11 o'clock on a Friday and then I sort of told the story and I sort of realised that I was really, really at fault because I'd been on with this Icelandic band and they were very clearly fans of substances. So they sort of said, do you want some of this, do you want some of that? And then they said, does anyone want some snuff? And I rolled our decks through what I was allowed and I was like, I'm allowed snuff. Give me too much. Give me so much that I'm vomiting at the side of the soundstage in two minutes before we go out of the lodge. There's no reason to be rude to someone.

I'm not dead. That's no reason to be rude to someone. Oh my God. Oh Jesus. What is it? It's snuff tobacco. I don't think I've had snuff. Don't take snuff. I'm not going to. That's number one. Don't take snuff.

It's very difficult to get hold of and it makes your hair fall out. It makes your hair thin. It makes you put on a lot of weight as well. That does not sound like anything that I'm interested in. You know, you wouldn't like that. No, I'm looking for a cross between Rogaine and cocaine. That does not sound like anything that I'm interested in. You wouldn't like that. No, I'm looking for a cross between Rogaine and cocaine. That's what I want. That's the opposite of snuff.

It's funny though, do you still get snobby about drugs? Because I do. Like when people are like, because everybody smokes weed on the street in America now and everybody's, you know, it's, it's everywhere. The smell of weed is everywhere in New York City. And, and I think, you know, get yourself a proper drug. I find myself thinking, I know it's very pathological. I'm like, that's not a proper drug.

Take a proper drug, cocaine or heroin or something. But I suppose that's not a healthy attitude. It's not a healthy attitude. It's not a healthy attitude. I aware that. Do you know, we're so vanilla, we don't really know what drugs are now. Drugs are very different. I know, they've got really bad ones. We would not be alive now.

All these young ones. Do you know what I mean? I mean, it's so it's a serious business the minute you start taking it. We thought it was serious, but it was a moral panic. It wasn't really a physically dangerous thing every time you took something and it is now. That's true with the fentanyl thing. You could just like the first time, done. Do you know what I mean? We guys, you know, we kids, you know. So we got off lucky. I mean, I think the reason we're both here is probably because,

So we got lucky. I mean, I think the reason we're both here is probably because, you know, because I mean, who at a party back in our day, somebody handed you something and you took it. You didn't know what it was. Yeah, I know. I mean, it terrifies me now because we both, you know, have young adults and it's terrifying. It's terrifying that it's out there like that. And I think the drugs are so good now as well, like in terms of like potency and, uh, you know, like people will say things like strains of marijuana.

Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. You know, it's like, you know, they'll say, cause I remember, like the, uh, when I took marijuana, the hash was hash, marijuana was marijuana, grass was grass, hash was hash, that was it. And I remember once having a, my, one of my few homosexual, uh, encounters when I was a young man and I say to a gay friend later, it's not really for me. And he said, it was probably the wrong one. And I said, no, I don't think there are strains sufficient. I tried it and it's not for me, but, but hash now you can, there are so many different strains of it that the people will say,

Oh, you know, cause I got psychotic from marijuana, like crazy. But apparently that's certain strains do that to people and other strains don't. It's too late for me now and I'm glad of it, but I went crazy on it. Gone are the days of, uh, you know, going up to the Trollsox and sitting, looking over the city and taking what turned out to be half an aspirin. Then you'd save 20 quid for it, you know, and then they're getting now. Do you remember dodo tablets? Do you ever take dodo tablets? No.

We used to take dodo tablets where I think were a bronchial thing. They were in Scotland. There was some kind of bronchial thing, but if you took dodo tablets and drank cheap wine and then sat on the train in Springburn, the vibrations felt really fabulous. That's just Dr. Siddiqui. Yeah, I mean, it was such a mess. But it's funny, I think of like those days, because you and I never really, we never crossed paths until we got sober. But the darkness that you described, the kind of comic darkness of drinking and using in those times, I think we both ended up where we were because of that influence, of that

kind of hilarious despair of the kind of the mid 80s if you were like in Scotland. It was terrible but awesome. Yeah, I mean it's awesome because it's past. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, it was grim and we were both very depressed. Let's remember that. Yeah, no, it was terrible. I'm sure there were people, I mean, you know, young people now dress as if they're in the

80s sometimes. I know. And I get, you know, it gives me the heebie-jeebies. Pastel pink, lemon yellow. If I see someone in lemon yellow, I feel like I'm about to get the sack for being cheeky. Um, you know, a wedge cut, you know what I mean? Yeah. I was all-

Our shoulder pads back, shoulder pads aren't back, are they? Uh, shoulder pads, they came back very briefly here about a year ago. I quite like a shoulder pad. I don't mind it. I've reached a point in my life now where it's actually, I'm kind of thinking about putting them in my shirt like Larry King used to do. So what's happening with you now then? What are you doing? Are you off on, because you still travel so much. Yeah.

Do you still do that? I'm just about to, I'm just finishing a book this week. And then we're going to the QE2, we're having a festival on it. In Los Angeles? No, no. Where is it? We're going from Southampton to New York. We get it free.

We give a couple of workshops. And I'm saying we, I'm not using the Royal Wee, it's like me and Christopher Burke and Mark Billingham. Me and Stevie are getting it. Yeah. Right. And, and then they fly you back business class. So we're staying, we're going to do that. That'll be lovely.

And then, yeah, so we're just traveling around a lot. Wait, wait. So you crossed the Atlantic on the QE2? Yeah. In November. And where do you end up? New York. When?

On the 23rd of November. Are you around? I fly from... I'm going from Atlanta to Paris on the 24th. What are you doing in Paris? I'm meeting Megan. Because I'm doing stand ups. Do you want to come, you and Stevie come to Paris and we'll go out and eat too much. Oh that'd be so nice.

Well we're staying in the Chelsea for a few nights and then we're going to fly back via Iceland and then I think we're all going to go to the unit. Have you been to Iceland? Oh, it's great. It's good, isn't it? It's great. Yeah, it's great. But like all Scandinavian countries, ultimately really boring.

How dare you? I like messy places. I like Nepal and Milwaukee and places that have got a bit of mess about them. Yeah, I've never been to Nepal, but I've been to Milwaukee a couple of times. But now if it's like, if Nepal's like Milwaukee, I don't need to go. It's not like it. No. It's not like it. There's a lot more decapitated animals in the street from

my opinion. I've never seen that in Milwaukee. I'm not saying it's not there, but I am seeing it. Are you following the political climate in the United States right now? I do believe there is an election. Actually, by the time this goes out, it'll have gone on. Oh, really? Okay. I think, yeah, so.

And how are you feeling about that? Because you're actually there. I kind of, it's funny, I, I, I steer away from publicly, I mean, you, you know how I feel about politics and stuff, but I steer away from publicly, I mean, you, you know how I feel about politics and stuff, but I steer away from publicly discussing it because it's such a divisive tool. You know, I mean, it seems like the only thing that anyone agrees on is that you can use someone's political opinion to shame them. Um, but I think that what I've taken some solace from, funnily enough, it goes back around

to that Rizzio thing of yours, because I get into these historical novels of Gore Vidal, I read the narratives of empire, he wrote seven historical books about the United States from 1776 to 1954. And what was fascinating about it is that there's nothing fucking new about this. Nothing. I think that America to me is a, one of the things about America is that it is a national expression of Jungian duality. It's always been at war with itself. It's always had this fucking, you know, push pull. And I think it's no different, but it's kind of frightening though. It gets your attention because there's a lot of hyperbole and fear and you don't know how much of it is real, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I think if you look at it in the historical context, very importantly, people are much easier to control if they're very frightened. Yes. And that's both sides of doing that, hyping people up. Totally. And I'm obsessed with the Civil War. Are you interested in the Civil War?

Yes, I am actually. I became fascinated by it through the, I mean, I'm actually right now, I'm still kind of stuck on the Revolutionary War, the kind of the first one, but yeah, but have you been around the Civil War battle sites as well? No, but me and my cousin are going to do it. It's amazing. It's a weird thing that you get so interested in the Civil War at age 52 and a half, I think. Yeah, that's right. Isn't it?

You can see the whole world in that. You can see the whole, you know, the impossibility of victory and suddenly victory because a drunk guy just set fire to everything. Cause the drunk guy starts to fight and, uh, you know, and, and how spoiled that became afterwards. And it's funny cause I was trying to write something for an Alistair Gray thing about contraband camp. Do you know what contraband camp is?

I don't know what that is. Slaves that ran away during the civil war were called contraband because they were a contraband war. So they sent up camps everywhere and all these incredibly well-meaning white women like me went to work in contraband camps to teach people to read and they had all these really sort of idealistic ideas about how they were going to save everybody and then they to read and they had all these really sort of idealistic ideas about how they were going to save everybody. And then they got there and they just realized how grim it was and how it was systematic. And, you know, it didn't matter what people saved or if they got jobs or anything like that. They just looked all the whole system was

up against them. But I mean, so I thought, you mean, I can't even identify the language to use about people of color in that context. I don't even know how you could speak about that. But yeah, but yeah, but I mean, there's nothing new and just be kind to the people you meet, even if you don't agree with them. I think there's maybe like three or 4% of people who really are troubled and mental and, you know, really do want war and the rest of us are just trying to look after our mum and keep the house tidy. That seems to be my experience in the month because I go to, like I do stand up in, you know, very different, you know, kind of political environments in the United States, like geographically. And, you know, my rule and my deal with the audience

that I've had since about 2016 is for the hour and a half I'm on stage, we're going to forget about that. I'm going to do something else. So all the shit that you're angry about, I'll still be there when you leave the theater. But we're going to take a break. I need a fucking break. And, you know, and so I'm not going to do it because I'm even at a stage it because I'm, I'm even at the stage now where I'm sick of the people I agree with. I'm like, you know, when they're talking, I'm like, fucking shut up. You know, I mean, even if I agree with what

they're saying, I'm like, for fuck's sake. And it is, it is an odd, it's an odd time, but why does it have to be a fucking odd time? No, but I have to say politicians of this generation are crap at their job because they have a job to do and your job is to run things. Shut up, stay out of our face and let us make films, write books, make... Why are we talking about you doing your job all the time? Do your job. I know.

You know what I mean? I feel the same way. It's like shut the fuck up and get the bills paid. Keep the lights on. You know. You're an administrator. Shut your nuts and do your job. Well, we got that sorted. I feel like I've spent half an hour in your kitchen and I always feel the better for that. It's lovely to see you. It's lovely to see you too. Looking to healthy. Thanks very much.

You look very man. I've been moisturising. You look amazing by the way. Are you using collagen or something? You look fabulous. I am. Yeah. Are you really?

This is actually the back of my head. I just shaved my head. And turned my face on. And threw a face on it. All right. It's lovely to see you. Give my best to Stevie and Ann and Oe and Megan I know wants to talk to you but she cannae do it in the podcast so I think she's... Tell her to give me a ring. Well maybe see you over Christmas, that'd be lovely. Yeah definitely, all right.

Yeah, yeah. All right. Have a Yeah, definitely. Alright. Yeah? Yeah? Alright. Have a lovely time on the boat. I'm sorry I'm going to miss you in New York. I think we might be just being sick all the time. Alright. It's lovely to see you. Take care. Okay, Harry, darling. Bye bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude and the power of love.

I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best and you're gonna figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts

or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking music, the awards, the gossip, and all things trending in my culture. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers.

Each week we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only Nuestra Gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even

say hello? And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Listen to Season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.