Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Hasan Minhaj

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Meet Hasan Minhaj: actor, producer, writer, comedian, and television host. You may recognize him from his political television show Patriot Act, as a correspondent on The Daily Show, or his stand up specials Off With His Head and The King's Jester. Keep up with Hasan on his podcast Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know! I hope you enJOY!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart podcast. I know a lot of cops, they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser, Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Taser, Inc. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser, Inc. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Alive Again, a podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come and see my brand new comedy hour. Well, it's actually, it's about an hour and a half, and I don't have an opener because these guys cost money. But what I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while. Anyway, come and see me live on the Pants on Fire tour in your region.

Tickets are on sale now and we'll be adding more as the tour continues throughout 2025 and beyond. For a full list of dates, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com. See you on the road, my dears. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Welcome to the KIDSUPER studios here in Brooklyn, New York.

I am here in the tent and I am Craig Ferguson and I am the host today of the Joy podcast. Every time there's a Joy podcast, I'm the host, but I'm the host today, so that counts. My guest today has not taken shit from every politician he's interviewed, which I think is quite a pedigree. He's a great comic and a great interviewer, and he's here and his name is Hassan Minaj. Enjoy. We were talking about how at a certain point in the day, I have to move to decaf because

I can't get up all night peeing. This is all in front of you, man. I'm from the future. And... Where are we going? What's happening? Well, in the future, when you're my age, you'll have to get up and pee like two or three times a night, even if you don't have...

Three. Well, maybe not three. What are you, a doctor? Your cop? What's going on? Yeah, my mother is. My mother is a physician. Your mother's a doctor?

She's a physician. Oh, that's right. That makes sense. No, here's the thing. I was going to say to you, because we were talking about this beforehand. What's up? Right. So your parents were immigrants.

Yes. And I'm an immigrant. And so my kids are in the same position you are, was they kind of get a little frustrated with my kind of gung ho rah rah America stuff. Cause I don't know if your parents are the same, but I'm like, you know, if someone converts to Catholicism, they feel like they should be a little more Catholic than people who are just like growing up Catholic.

I'm kind of like that. And I think a lot'm kind of like that. Yeah. And I think a lot of immigrants are like that. Yeah, there's a, with the first generation, they're very, we're here! We're here, we made it here. Yeah, yeah, and now it's going to be fine. Yeah, look at this, we're in Central Station.

Yeah, crushed ice, root beer with crushed ice, unbelievable. And then the kids are like, you know there's a guy pissing right here. Yeah, there's guys pissing everywhere. But look at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of, it's an interesting thing because I wonder if, if I, you know, if I'm, you know, putting into my kids' heads that in order for

them to rebel against me, they have to rebel against every, because of course it's their duty as the next generation to rebel against whatever morals and values and mores that I have. Yeah. Do you find that, do you think you did that with your own parents or is it? Ooh, we're starting this hot? Well, why not? I mean, we could do that or we could look at the idea because the culture that your parents come from is Indian culture. Yes, yes, of course. So it might be you rebel against that or...

Yeah. Okay, so I think really what, if I'm going to zoom out philosophically, what actually happened was... That's very good. Yeah. Let's zoom it out. Yeah. Philosophically as well. I'm very happy about that. Yeah. Let's pull out on the camcorder. A comedian who's a philosopher is my favorite thing. Oh God. Let's not do this.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry. All right. Go ahead. Zoom out for a little. All right. I think the big split was, they came here. My dad got here in 1982. I think he had a vision and certainly America was a particular way. And by the time I came of age to live in that America, it changed. So I think when he came, they were running MS-DOS as the operating system. And now it's fucking JavaScript and Python and yeah, it's all sorts of, it just changed. And so what I really was rebelling against to some capacity was, I think they had a very fixed understanding of what this country is and can be and what it can provide. I think that's a generational thing.

I think it's a generational thing. For everything. I mean, that happens. I mean, I have... And I don't blame them for this. Like, who am I to... Yeah. I mean, it'll happen to you too.

You have kids. Absolutely. You know, but your kids are young. And, you know, and as they grow up... But I have a seven-year-old, I have a five-year-old. I can already feel it. Oh, yeah. It does happen. So, I don't know year old. I have a five year old. I can already feel it. Yeah, it does happen. So I don't know if you have this with the restaurant QR code.

You sit down at a restaurant, right? And you go, can I get a menu, please? And I go, we'll scan the QR code. Yeah, and I'll just start. Welcome to my fucking world. So I get angry like what? What? would you like a receipt? Yes, I would Yes, I would like my address or when they cut down a tree and give me a piece of That I had a that I'm about to purchase something or I did purchase I still get angry at the Starbucks people when they asked me for a name. I'm like I I want a coffee. We're not friends, you know I know it's like a do we have a name for the coffee?

No, we coffee is the name for the coffee? No, we don't. Coffee is the name for the coffee. And I feel like I'm slowly losing my grip on the world. You're losing the plot a little bit. A little bit. I still like vinyl. You know? Yeah. Well, my thing is, is that I didn't opt in,

Mr. Thai Restaurant, I didn't opt in for the QR code. Right, exactly. I came to have lunch with you. Right. Not to have you and me be on our phone. Right. And also the data grab that they're taking all of your stuff and they see. Yeah. And they go, just pay up, just pay on your phone. I go, please don't make me do this. Well, I think that's great though, because that you're embracing the crankiness pretty young,

pretty young, but that's good. Roll into it, make it part of your life. But of course that kind of dissatisfaction and borderline misandry, I think, is that's what makes a comedian though, isn't it? Yes, we are very good at complaining. It really is. We're just complainers is what we are. Humorous complainers. Humorous complainers. So when people say we're philosophers, we're not actually providing any solutions really.

We're actually just very good cranks. Well, you know, here's the thing though. I would dispute with you that philosophers of any stripe have provided any solutions anyway. I mean, I mean, that's true. Maybe they just maybe just they clarified. Yeah, clarified. Even then, I don't know.

I mean, like this is me being contrarian because it's, but the idea of, you know, like Socrates saying, now look, I'm by any philosophy I know is forgive me is Western philosophy. You may know more about, you know, yeah. So, um, but Socrates certainly, uh, like knowing the right questions to ask. I'm like, well, I don't know if that's enough, is it? But apparently it was. And then here's the thing I was thinking about Socrates recently in cancel culture. So I have this theory, like, you know, when Athens was popping off 500 BC BCE, the, uh, all these

philosophers were there and I feel like it was like gigs. I think it was like the comedy seller. Are you going to see Socrates? You know, he's got, he's working on 15. Right. He's doing a 15 minute set, you know, the athanon or something. And I feel like it was probably like that. It was like entertaining for people. Sure, sure, sure. And doing the Parthenon was a theater gig. It's the beacon. It's the beacon or maybe it's the garden. Maybe it's the garden, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but there's the cellar where you work out your little bit of philosophy before you go in. And I feel like that happened a lot throughout the years of human history.

I think that like, here's my, I pitched this as an idea to you, that even like, now my background is in Christianity, yours is in Islam, right? But when we were getting taught about Jesus and they would say things Jesus had said, I'd be like, really? That's not really that great, I think to say, but my guess is that delivery was great. And then, so I'm guessing saying when Jesus said in ancient Aramaic or whatever language he said, you know, getting through the eye of the, a rich man getting into heaven is like getting through a camel getting through the eye of the rich man getting into the heaven is like getting through a camel, getting through the eye of a needle.

I bet delivered correctly in the right language. That's probably a great joke. Grata. Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely probably amazing. My technique graded and act out. Right.

I'm projecting, projecting, no microphones. Yeah. Like 5,000 people, no microphones. Let's see that. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Daily show? Let's see that. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Daily Show. Let's see that.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Do you have, is your background very secular or were you brought up quite? I was brought up quite religious. Really?

Oh yeah. Yeah. So, cause I know next to nothing about Islam. Really? Really, honestly. Yeah. For me though, you know, honestly, I felt from a young age my Bluetooth was on. Really?

Yeah, I kind of, I did feel, there's got to be something more than what I'm seeing here. Sure. And surely what's happening right here, this doesn't make a lot of sense for me either. Right. So in a weird way, the unseen made more sense to me than what I was seeing. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. I know it sounds a little weird.

No, it doesn't, not to me, which should worry you more, but, but I think that that, that makes sense to me. I think the idea of seeking some kind of, I mean, it starts, started for me young as well. There's got to be more to it than this. Honestly, I think for me, when I was a really little kid, I think America represented that. I wonder, you know, that it was a place where, you know, there was more going on. Just possibility.

Possibility and the fact that they would, you gotta remember, like I grew up in Scotland in the 1960s, while America was going to the moon. I mean, we weren't getting a lot of information about the civil rights marches and stuff, but we got a lot of TV about going to the moon and I was like, oh my God. So for you, did you at that, at a young age, you felt I gotta go there? Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I know it was a thing. Just all the cool stuff is happening there.

Everything cool was American and like I am totally a product of American cultural imperialism. No doubt about it. I am Coca-Cola branded Ford Motors victim of advertising. I'm happy to be it, but that's definitely what I am in. And it's when, you know, when I project this onto my children, they're less, I'm not saying they're anti-American or anything like that, but they're less enamored by the things I'm enamored by. The shiny stuff that was really, yeah.

Yeah, I was taken in by a lot, and I still am. I still am taken in by, I like it. Is it weird when your kids ever go, we should look at Europe, look how beautiful, and you go, that fucking old place? Yeah. Because Americans have the opposite. They love the, I call them the Instagram countries.

Yeah. Paris is an Instagram country. Scotland. Scotland is an Instagram, yeah. Yeah. So those countries to me, they're just, they're like Whisper Castle Instagram country. Right.

You know, Lady Margaret, no, Lady Margaret, you must, like, they're just old period pieces and you go there with your, you know, your boyfriend or girlfriend and take an Instagram photo. It's almost like, my wife says this about rednecks in America as well. Old period pieces and you go there with your boyfriend or girlfriend and take an Instagram photo. It's almost like my wife says this about rednecks in America as well. She says like, posh people in Britain have the same names as American rednecks. I mean, you say, you know, Benedict Cumberbatch as Lord. And then you see that same name in America, Benedict Cumberbatch.

It's like, hey, Benedict. It's like the same people. The hyphenated name thing from Britain, very posh. In America, outdoor trampoline. It's kind of a thing. That's a great bet. You know, I think I might work it up. All right, work it out. What happens when we come face to face with death?

My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying. When we step beyond the edge of what we know. To open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that western box. In return.

I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple. To find, explore, and share these stories. I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor. You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable.

To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who is smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit, and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself

to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. three on May 21st and episodes four, five and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater podcast network hosted by me, writer and historian, Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck. This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else.

Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and bestselling author and meat eater founder Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.

Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast,

brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. With guests like Corinne Stephens. I've never seen so many women protect predatory men.

And then me too happen. And then everybody else wanna get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. My oldest daughter, her first day of ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing. She was like, oh, dad, all they was doing was talking about your thing in class.

I ruined my baby's first day of high school. And slumflower. What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money. I'm like, oh my god, it's go time. You actually sent it? Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast

every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. Hello, this is Craig Ferguson. And I want to let you know I have a brand new stand-up comedy special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy. And I would be so happy if you checked it out to watch the special

Just go to my youtube channel at the Craig Ferguson show and it's right there Just click it and play it and it's free I can't look I'm not gonna come around your house and show you how to do it if you can't do it then you can't Have it, but if you can figure it out is yours Now you and I are part of a fairly exclusive club. Okay, talk to me. White House Correspondence. That's, you did it when?

2017. Trump's first year. Yeah, well he wasn't there though. He wasn't there, of course he didn't show up. Yeah, does he go to any of them? He went to the year Seth Meyers did it. He attended as a guest. Right. But he didn't He went to the year Seth Meyers did it. He attended as a guest. Right.

But he didn't... I think he was there the year I did it. But I mean, I was 2008. He was a guest. He just showed up. Yeah, I think he was there. I'm not sure. But... Okay. But, um... He wasn't. I didn't reference him in the act. Famously bad room, right? Or did you feel like the room...

It's the worst! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did the sound system work for you? No. It's just as shitty as you would imagine. I mean, I feel like they could get it better than that. I mean, you are at a Hilton in Washington, D.C. And it feels like it, right? Totally, yeah.

The sound system was awful. I don't know if you know this about me, but I have an accent, apparently, which, you know, that was a little tricky too. I mean, it went okay. Yeah. But I felt like it was, I felt like it was like a dream. It did feel like a dream.

Seeing famous people out there, but in weird kind of... Yeah, because what you're seeing is you're like, there's Wolf Blitzer. And there's a man named Wolf Blitzer, which is a very funny thing. That's right. There's a man named Wolf. And everyone doesn't have a problem with it. And he kind of does look like a wolf. Little bit. Little bit.

Yeah, and he eats raw meat. Yeah. He does. He does, really? Maybe. Maybe he does. Who knows? We can't confirm or deny.

But they'll be like Wolf Blitzer, and then they'll be like the cast of Grey's Anatomy. So it's like, you know what I mean? It's this weird, you know, or it'll be like this person played president on TV and then there's a real president. The actual chief of staff for the president is here. It's this, it's a very strange. Who were the big politicians there when you were there? Well, he famously did not want anyone from the administration to be there. Oh. So then there were just other members of Congress. So it became, it became this whole like kind of flash point, who will show up, who will not show up.

Right. So it became a politicized thing. A politicized thing. Right. But to me, I thought, I mean, that's just great comedy fodder. It kind of is. Cause it's all just tension. Yeah. You know, and I think, um, I don't know if you chatted with Colbert or Seth Myers, like a couple of the people who had done it before I had talked to.

Yeah. And they told me the room fucking sucks. It does fucking suck. I didn't talk to Steven or had talked to. Yeah, I did the same. And they told me the room fucking sucks. It does fucking suck. I didn't talk to Steven or Seth about it. Yeah. I talked to Drew Carey and Jay Leno about it. Oh, great. But, you know, that's a generational thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like these guys had done it before me. Yeah, they'd done it before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it is bad, but. So, but actually, and you know this, once you know, because it's all about expectation. Once you know, all right, so what is the gig? So they you know, because it's all about expectation, once you know,

all right, so what is the gig? So they go, look, it's a casino gig. Yeah. You're like, okay, I know what this is. That's exactly what it is. I know what this is. So when they all told me, look, you are doing a hotel ballroom gig.

You've done a wedding here, you've done a set at a bar. You know what this is. Yeah, you do. And so that was the first note. That leveled my expectation. Then the second thing that Stephen told me, which was, you're going to bomb in the room, but play to camera one. You're playing to everyone else. And that was my whole unlock.

Did you bomb in the room? I don't think you bombed. I think I did. Okay. But when I worked it out at the cellar, it certainly wasn't that. Right. But the cellar is like maybe the greatest venue on air Right, but but I'm working out the seller, but I'm also doing these like

Very deep cut references, you know, I'm so and so from MSNBC is here and like the 10 o'clock crowd's like What the fuck you talk? Are you really making a joke about you know? Yeah, the 10 a 10 p.m. Anchor on CNN You know, but yeah, I'm making a Don Lemon joke right now, right? No and anchor on CNN, you know, but yeah, I'm making a Don Lemon joke right now. Right. You know, and, um, so anyways, once, once I kind of leveled that, I just knew, and you know, this from, from late night, just play the camera one, kind of play to the room a little bit and it's for everybody at home. Yeah. And then just kind of stand in it.

Who did you run into to who produced your, your, uh, your, I'm going to say late night show cause that's kind of, I feel like. Sure, sure. Yeah. It's like, because for me, getting the right producer for these things is like, if you get it wrong, you're never going to do it. Yeah, it's never going to work. It's never going to work. I'm lucky, man.

I found early on when I was doing open mics and stuff, I found a really great comedian friend of mine named Prashanth Venkataramanajam. He became kind of a co-writer, co-producer. We would do shit together. And at the time I didn't know that would be kind of like my future collaborator, but we really were like two musicians working together. That's great. And it was so, so he knew my voice. He also knew how to kind of control me editorially. He knew, you know, he's going off the rails a little bit, but let him, let him.

And then, all right, we'll get to the idea here. He also helped me clarify a lot. Hey, what are you trying to say here? Right. I had a great producer as well, a guy, Pierre LaSalle, who was my guy. And, and Pierre used to say to me, especially about jokes, he'd say, is it worth it? You know, and I would, you know, some days, some days it was worth it. You know, some days it was worth, you know, there was going to be trouble,

but the joke was worth it. And some days you'd go, you know, this joke, it's okay. Is it true you just use bullet points for your modeling? Is it true? Yeah, it got that way. It got got that way. I mean what happened was it was a process what you know this is like you turn up and there's everybody from the corporate is there and they want it to be a certain way and you have long conversations about the set like anyone gives a fuck. Although this is the nicest set I think. No this is amazing. But this is the exception, this is not the rule. Yeah, this is true and actually

no one ever talked to me about this set. I just turned up and I was like, this is great. Anyway, you have these long conversations with corporate about set and then they would write, because I was doing a broadcast late night show and nobody knew who I was. You know, I was just like, I had won some, it was like, I won a competition. So they, I came in and they had all these writers who were like, you know, old but like cigars and little advisors on hand, typewriters. They would write me jokes like, Hey, you guys see the playoffs?

And like, I didn't even know what the fucking playoffs were. I don't know what they're talking about. But I would walk out and I'd do this with my tie and I'd go, Hey, do you guys see the playoffs and like, I didn't even know what the fucking playoffs were. I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah. But I would walk out and I'd do this with my tie and I'd go, Hey, do you guys see the playoffs? And everyone's like, the fucking, you're not connecting with this. And I would make fun of me doing that. And the me making fun of me trying to be a late night host became the show. But I think that with these shows, and I think it's with these. But did you know there was two things, I just got to tell you this, because we're finally

getting a chance to hang in real life. There's two things that I think you did that were so amazing that I think I didn't realize were brilliant tools that you should always, always, always keep no matter what. Number one thing that I love that you did, which is you subverted all expectation by acknowledging that nobody knew who the fuck you were and where you were at night. It's 12.35 AM. You acknowledged.

My wife didn't even know there was a show after later. She didn't even know. That's what I'm saying. I got the show after later, but I didn't know there was one. But actually playing low status is the thing, that is the most counter-cultural thing show after that. Yeah, I didn't know the worst one But but but actually playing low status is the thing that is the most countercultural thing you can do So so when people go like comedians or rock stars, I go no no we've lost. Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that Don't do that right now. It's actually the one of the worst things you can do. It's setting yourself up Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of problems. So that so that was number one and then number two that I realized

It was so brilliant is just meet the moment where it is. And so even you doing little things where you would come up to the camera and like tap the lens and you're just fucking with the form to let people know, hey, I'm a person. I'm really here. I'm in a studio. That joke didn't work or, hey, are you home? Like, all of that, breaking the form gave you this real liberation, which was super inspiring for me. I think, well, I thank you, and I think was...

And I try to remind myself still to this day that you, both you, and there's this other comedian that you should, I don't know if you've met, Rory Scovel. Oh, I know exactly who you're talking about, he's a great comic. Yes, he's a brilliant comic. Yes, he is. And he is a reminder of this is a live art about. He's a great comic. Yes, and he's a brilliant comic. Yes, he is. And he is a reminder of this is a live art form. You know this, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're actually just performing live on stage. So perform live and be aware of, okay, this is a wooden table and we're in this fake tent. I think that's why it draws so many troubled people because actually, and you ever read these surveys and say the thing people are most frightened of is public speaking. I'm like, then I have no idea what that must be like,

because I would sleep on a stage. The most comfortable I get is getting up on a stage and I'm like, no, everything's all right. That or, you know, at home, you know, under a blanket. These are the two happy places. Oh, those are your two modes. That's it. It's at home under a blanket or that.

Because I think that, you know, you know what the rules are. At least I do. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like be funny. Right. Or it's over. Did you, when you started out. What a weird survival mechanism though.

It is a weird thing. Isn't it weird that we still have this need to do it. Before we started recording, we were talking about how the pandemic, I realized not being able to do comedy. I thought it was my only discernible skillset and ability to make money. That's what I thought.

Okay, I have to do this because I got fired from every other job that I've had in my life. So you better be good at this. Right. But I actually, because of the pandemic and not being able to perform during the pandemic, I go, I actually need it for my own sanity. Yeah.

And I think I'm actually going to do this until I die. Yeah. For better or for worse. That's when you're a real comic. There was a time, I think probably it still exists a little bit, but there was a time certainly in like the 80s and 90s when people were only comedians to get a sitcom. A lot of people, there was a huge comedy, but like now in the 1980s. You had your Drew Carey moment.

Right, exactly all that. But Drew was one of those guys. I mean, Drew's a standup, but once he got his show, that was his thing, you know, was to get the Drew Carey show. Yeah. Uh, he's a good standup. He's actually a really good standup, but he, I don't think he really does it anymore. Like I can't envisage a life where people still say to me now, like,

well, you still do standup? Like it's like going to Eric Clapton, you still play the guitar. Well, what's wrong with you? You can have your own orchestra. Yeah. But I play the guitar? What's wrong with you? You can have your own orchestra. Yeah, but I play the guitar. That's what I do. You know? But it's also like, and I didn't realize this and I don't know if it was like this

in the nineties, but showbiz, and I think this is old as time, is such a fickle, not real thing. Yeah. And so to me, I've been now doing it 20 years. It, to me, stand up to me is the cheat code to everything. Yeah. It's the only thing I feel in control of minus the pandemic where it was taken away.

Yeah, it was everybody. But it's the only thing that I go like, I'm telling you I can do this. Let me tell you a true story. Yeah. When I got, I was doing the Drew Carey show. So I did that until early 2000s. Yeah. When I got, I was doing the Drew Carey show. So I did that until the early 2000s. Yeah. And when I got the late night show from doing some kind of thing, I hadn't done standup

for about 10 years. I'd been doing independent movies. I'd been doing things and you know, you didn't have the time to do it or you didn't want to? I just kind of moved away from it. Maybe I just didn't, it's not that I didn't need it. I didn't, I didn't think about it. Oh, interesting.

And then, you know, I was writing movies, I had a writing deal at Paramount and I was writing movies and I was making movies and I was doing, I was working in movies and TV and the, uh, when I got the job in late night, I realized that CBS would, first of all, they owned me for everything. I couldn't make a television appearance or a movie appearance or anything without their permission. That was part of the contract. And I knew they didn't own me for live performance.

And I knew that if I screwed up, they'd cut my throat and dump me in the East River really even thinking about it. It wouldn't be a thing. But I knew that if I was going to have any autonomy, because I figured this show might make me more famous than I had been, if I was going to have any autonomy, I would have to go to stand up. That was the only place where I would exist as me. And that's when I went back into it again.

When I got the late night show, I started doing the chuckle huts and the yuck yucks and all that and you're back into it again. On the weekends you do. Yep. Yep. Holy shit. Yeah. Because, and I actually had people say to me, why are you doing this club? You have a TV show where the comedians in this club want to be on your TV show.

Yeah. Yeah. But I, I need it. I need it. And you know, and, and actually at the time I really did need it. I needed the money too. They weren't paying me anything. I was. And you know, and actually at the time I really did need it. I needed the money too. They weren't paying me anything. I was like, you know, they pay you eventually as you know, but when you start out,

yeah, not so much. But I wanted to talk to you about how you came to it because you, correct me if I'm wrong, but my read of you is that you saw comedy that you liked and that's what pulled you in. Yes. It wasn't just the kind of survival school ground bully thing. It was like, you saw comedy and you go, that's it. Was it Chris Rock?

Was that it? Chris was the one. And it was the, oh, that's allowed. Oh, you can do that. Yeah. So what I mean by that is like At the time I was bagging groceries at a grocery store chain called Safeway. I know the store. Okay Safeway off Mesa Boulevard The parent company's Vons But yeah, depending on where I go and I'm doing stand-up

I'll change it to Kroger's or Albertsons or whatever. But I was a courtesy clerk at Safeway, which was very funny, by the way, they call it courtesy clerk. I'm just bagging. I'm bagging. I like courtesy clerk. Yeah, sure. Sure. It sounds like a comic book character from the 1930s. I'm in waste receptacle management. Oh, got it. All right. So you're a garbage man. You're a garbage man, yeah. Right. So I'm bagging groceries. But anyways, I did that and then I was selling printers at Office Max.

If you've worked in corporate America, if you've had any job in corporate America, there is this decorum that really is like jail. It really is like prison. And so it was a holdover of what I had to do in school and kind of, hi, how are you? There's the niceties of life. And you can't talk back to a superior, that's your manager, you can't say, you know. So I remember being in college

and this is where kind of Destiny and KISS, all these things are meeting at the same time, high speed internet and kind of Napster, Limewire, illegal torrents on the internet. Now, other people would download things illegally. I would never do that because downloading things, that's illegal, not stealing. I want you to know that. I wouldn't do that.

Yeah, and that's a criminal offense. That's right. We do not endorse that. And we don't do that. Yeah, yeah. The kid's super studio. Never, never. And then on every DVD when it says the FBI, we're watching,

say, they're watching you. So don't you dare. $250,000 fine, apparently. Five years in every DVD when it says the FBI, we're watching, say, they're watching you. So don't you dare. $250,000 fine, apparently. Five years in jail. That's no joke. Yeah, just for, you know, copying Mission Impossible 2. Yeah. Have you seen it? Not even that great. So why? It's not worth the, it's not worth the fee. You know, I preferred Mission Impossible 1. You did? Yeah, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a great movie. So... You're bagging groceries. I'm bagging groceries and I'm in college and a buddy of mine shows me Chris Rock's Never Scared. And it's a great special. It's a great special. It's a great special.

It's a phenomenal special. He's a great comic. He's a great comic, but what he was talking about were all the things that would get you either fired or sent to HR. Politics, war, George W. Bush, sex, relationships. These are all like just taboo things you cannot say. And yeah, man, he just was saying it.

And I go, that to me is what I, I want to do that. I feel all those things. I say all those things with my friends. I want to do that. I got to do that. How do I do that? And I just started Googling. I went on google things with my friends. I want to do that. I got to do that. How do I do that? And I just started Googling. I went on google.com.

How do you become a singer? So how did you start? Did you go open mics? Literally started just going open mics. Yeah, open mic, you know, at the Sacramento punchline. That's amazing. Yeah, and just started there. So like, what's your first open mic like?

I mean, cause I... Yeah, so... How long did you do? You only get to do three minutes or five minutes. That... Yeah. So, how long did you do? You only get to do three minutes or five minutes. That's crazy. It takes that long to say good evening. Yeah. I had three jokes. I think the joke was I was living at home at the time and this dates me.

It was a joke about having landlines and like talking to a girl on the phone. Right. And then, you know, I think the jokes was something like, Oh, why are you breathing so heavy? And then it's like, you're a dad, hang up. So that's the joke. That's a pretty decent joke. Yeah, I mean, I'm 18 years old, right?

So it was like, you know, so it was just a, you know, dad, dad breathes heavy, you know. Okay, Rebecca, you know, he hangs up. So it was like a stupid, stupid joke, but I remember it, it kind of connected. And once you get that hit. Do you know what's the weird thing? Do you remember the first time you died on stage? Yeah. I mean, that was probably maybe the second or third set.

Yeah. But the first, so did your first set go good? The first one went good for me. I got just enough. Yeah. I got just enough of a hit. Yeah. A little bit of the juice.

Like, I'll come back. You know what I think is weird is that, because I remember the first time I died, which was spectacular. Yeah. And... I feel like you're very good at bombing. Oh, I'm fabulous at it. No one can be shit like me.

That's great. I love that. But I remember how, I mean, it was bad. Like the audience were chanting. It was... Oh, shit. Oh, it was a punk rock festival in London. And I was going on between the bands.

You ever had that thing where you go on and do some comedy between the bands? So I go on between, I don't know, the Spits Boys and the Hell Boys. Have you had musician friends that ask you to do- Oh, fucking Lars from Metallica said to me, hey, do you want to open for us? I'm like, hey, you're out of your fucking mind. This is selfish. You should tell Lars from Metallica said to me, Hey, do you want to open for us? I'm like, hey, you're fucking mad. Yeah, this is selfish. You should tell Lars from Metallica. How much do you hate me, Lars?

What the fuck would you want me to do that for? They're gonna love you. They have no desire to see. No, you love me, Lars. Your fans hate me. And I'm not even there. Yeah, Lars from Metallica asking you to do that. That's the destination wedding.

That's right. How dare you be this selfish? Right, right, right. It's not gonna happen. Anyway, so be the selfie? Right, right, right. It's not going to happen anyway. Yeah. So I'm at the, between the bands and I, I thought I'd be fine. I was like, I was a kid, I was about 18 as well. I'm wearing a kilt because I thought that would be funny.

Amazing. Yeah. But I was so frightened that my knees were shaking and it was all these cockney punks in the front row and they're like, his knees are knocking, his knees are knocking and they started chatting, the whole audience was shouting it, his knees are knocking, his knees are knocking, boo! And I came off stage after, like literally got booed off stage and I remember it clears the fucking bell. I go backstage and went, I gotta do that again. I was like, I don't know what an odd pathology exists. Did you fight growing up?

Were you a fighter? Did you ever get into fist fights? Yeah. Okay, so I've been in two or three fights, but I didn't know I was in the fight. Right. I got hit by a friend. I go, hey, like, so I didn't know I was in the fight.

But I have friends that were fighters that would actually fight and tussled with young men. And they told me the high of like you hits or you, when you get hit, you're like, oh, and then you kind of. I've never felt that, but I have felt the rush of, oh, anything could happen. And. Well, that's the truth about any fight, whether it's a, whether it's a war between superpowers or two guys in a bar. Once it starts, and

anyone who knows violence will tell you this, once it starts you don't really know where it's going to go. Right. Yeah, people like to say, well, we know where this is going to be over by Christmas. Okay, let's see how it's going to go. And I am terrified of violence. I hate it. And I've been involved in it a couple of times, you know, when I was a young man and I- And you never used, so I would-

A gun? No. No, no, no, no. I didn't see you as a second amendment guy, but you never used it as a deflection. I would always sometimes be, I played basketball a lot growing up. And I remember I had glasses, I got lay sick. But I was thinking about this, I was like,

oh yeah, I would also use comedy as a way to get out of... Sure! Doesn't always work though, that's the problem. I remember, it would work though a couple of times with me, like guys would go for a rebound and use their elbows. I had these big glasses, I'd go, whoa, whoa, easy on the money maker. Oh, nice. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they'd kind of start laughing. Self-deprecation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good trick I've seen people use in Hollywood as well, is that false beta move. But you know when you get some studio executive and you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like, it's an interesting game of chess. Correct. Especially around like obvious self-unaware alphas. Correct.

That's kind of fun to play that game. Yeah, and I didn't realize at the time it's also, you know, us as comics were very good at dialing in and assessing what are we really doing here? You know? What's actually going on? And so that, I think I didn't realize at the time these were little things that I was doing from a young age. Do you see it with your kids?

I mean, because the definitely a moment in my life that changed kind of everything has been a couple of them, but having become a father is, is like, it's a real kind of satori. It's a real kind of like, Oh, everything changes. Uh, I have a 24 year old and a 14 year old. So Scottish people, we are kind of like, you know, the big orchids in the jungle, they just every 10 years and everything gets pregnant. That's how Scottish people may, that's how it's done.

So every 10 years, you know, it doesn't matter who you are. And as you're sitting there, you're pregnant. Like an eclipse kind of. Yeah, exactly. So, right. You can tell it's coming and you can get out the way. But yeah, my 2037, we should expect something again. Yeah.

I think that's when it's going to happen again. I don't know if there's anything left. I think now at this point, it would just be like, nothing to have. Maybe the table gets, you know, has a period, but that's it. So, but having the kids was something that I think all of my, the way that I looked at, especially as they got a little older, right about when your kids are actually, when they, they start kind of becoming much more themselves. Yeah.

You know, there's not just this little slug you have to kind of wipe and move and wipe and move. It's like there's more stuff going on. Wiping butts and feet. Yeah. My God. How many shoes have you tied so far this year? It's like, my God, these fucking idiots can't tie the shoes.

I suppose kids nowadays have loafers. And I'm just, but I'm also shocked. It's also crazy how winded I get tying the shoes where I'm like, I'm like, why am I panting? Tying a pair of Converse All-Stars. Well, I mean, that's a deep cut though, putting Converse on a child. I know. That's a lot.

Are you talking about on you or on the child? Both. Yeah. Cause I always like, my fitness test is this. If I don't get out of breath tying my shoes, I'm good. I don't need a cholesterol check. Yeah, well, I don't need to check my DMI. If I can cut my own toenails, we're all right.

Everything's fine. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, look, I think the cool thing about kids, and I think Maleni was talking about this, I loved the way he articulated this was when he was holding his first, he goes, oh, there you are. I've been looking for you. And I do get, I got that feeling with them of like, oh, I didn't have to do all these other things for attention and love and all that stuff.

Oh, there it's here. There is an amount of service now involved in your life that you didn't have before. Yeah, it's that's what I feel like that's something really changes. And I think that the idea, you know, I used to like, like every young man, I was like, I'm I'm not going to have kids. Yeah. And then I had kids. I was like, I can't believe I waited so long to have kids. It seems strange to me. But, you know, I was like, I can't believe I waited so long to have kids. It seems strange to me.

But you know. I have a lot of friends that don't have children and I respect everybody's choice. But one thing that was really powerful for me as a performer was I remember holding my daughter and thinking about all the times I had felt as a child being abandoned. Even as an adult, I called so-and-so they didn't call back. I reached out for so-and-so they never texted back. And that pain you sometimes feel of like, oh man, I needed you there and you didn't really, you know, or you were, you were in a different place and that extending of an

olive branch and when you don't get it back and guys, we hide it really well. But I remember holding her and my son when he was born and being like, I'll be, I can be the person that texts you back. Like I'll be that for you. Yeah. That's interesting. That's kind of beautiful. Yeah.

Of like, I hope. Did you experience a lot of that when you were a kid Did you feel abandoned when you were little? As you know as immigrants were were in transit So, you know, we we come my mom's doing a residency. So there was a lot of stuff that was in New York and then she was doing a residency in Stockton and then you know, she came to Davis and then we so There was a lot of stuff that was in, you know, the immigrant story is almost like a mini house renovation of like, you're never fully unpacked and is the kitchen done? Is it? That's see, that's kind of, my kids have been through that as well.

I mean, we've had like half a dozen houses in the last 10 years. Yeah. So you're just kind of, you know, it becomes kind of a habit. Yeah. My wife got mad at me about it. She's like, we're not 10 years. Yeah, so you're just kind of, you know. It becomes kind of a habit. Yeah. My wife got mad at me about it. She's like, we're not moving again. Yeah. Uh, cause we moved around a lot and I think it does, I think, cause she's not

an immigrant, but she's the child, the grandchild of an immigrant. And so there is that kind of understanding of it. Yeah. It's, it's an odd thing. So that, I think maybe that was my, my joy is like, you can count on me. And, and I don't know, I can't do the balance sheet. I don't have the Excel spreadsheet for the rest of the world. Right.

But I can be that for you. And maybe that's enough. I think that's I mean it I think it is. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark.

I'm dying. We step beyond the edge of what we know. To open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that Western box. In return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I in that Western box. In return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes.

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too happen and then everybody else want to get pissed off because the white said it was okay. Problem. My oldest daughter her first day of ninth grade and I called to ask how I was doing. She was like, oh, all they were doing was talking about your thing in class. I ruined my baby's first day of high school. And slum flower. What turns me on is when a man sends me money. Like, I feel the moisture between my legs when a man sends me money.

I'm like, oh my god, it's go time. You actually sent it? Listen to the Good Moms, Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. The iHeart Radio app,, Apple podcast or wherever you go to find your podcast. You know Jim Gaffigan right? Of course yeah.

Right so I was talking to Jim years ago and I was talking to him about comedic style and he was talking about, you know, Jim works clean. I mean, like famously so. And he, like, he cusses like a normal human when he's off stage, but he works clean and he makes it, you know, a family friendly show. And I was like, I'm intrigued by that. And he said, I did it at first to see if I could do it. And then it became a stylistic choice. I liked it. I kind of liked doing it that way. And he does it. Andistic choice. I liked it. I kind of liked doing it that way. And he does it.

And he's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. And I made, when I had that conversation with him, I thought, I was doing late night at the time and late night, because you're working every day, politics was every day. Right. You know, politics is the thing. You know, every day there's going to be something you can talk about.

So you talk about it. Yeah. But it was just at the time, just as I was getting out late night, it started to go on fire. I mean, it really became polarized and then people really got upset. But yeah, this was like war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan, war on terror, all of that. Oh, geez. So, so as I'm coming out of it, I said, well, I in stand up now, this is around 2016. I was like, I'm not going to do any more politics ever, ever. I'm never going to talk about it.

And I don't, and I still don't. And what's interesting, because I know that you don't shy away from that at all. You were happy to run right at it. Totally. It's interesting to me because I wonder how it feels. Do you, cause I used to get hit with this in when I was doing Lena. If I did a, an anti Republican joke, I'd have to find an anti Democrat joke to balance it out.

Like standards and practice would say to me, you have to balance them. And so it became a thing. I don't think that happens anymore. I don't think they would say to you, you have to do that. Do you feel like it's, is it something that helps or hinders or just unavoidable because you're a political animal and you... Yeah, for me it it's almost like, what I love about the form is, if you have friends that journal, it's the same thing. Why they encourage long form writing is, sometimes I'll write to myself,

what is actually happening in my head? And it helps me figure out what's happening. And I'll just keep writing until I, that to me is the point of the bit. Right.'s to actually, what the fuck do I actually believe? And whether the position is contrarian or not, just what do you actually think? Or it's a... this is another style of joke you can do which is, oh this is the way it is, what if they did it like this? Can you imagine if they did it this way? Right. And it's just, now you're painting a picture in a new way.

So to me, that's the whole thing of how can I misdirect and how can I solve this? They're little puzzles to me. How do I solve this little puzzle? But what I think is quite interesting about it is that right now is if you do the, the, if, if one reads the room, it's like, you know, say I went into a room and it was a bunch of Glasgow Rangers supporters and a bunch of Glasgow Celtics supporters. I'd be like, I'm probably not gonna talk

about soccer today, you know? And I feel a little bit like that. But you don't get excited at the prospect of going, let me see. How much I can get away with? Let me see. Oh, for sure. Yeah. But I'm kind of like, let me see how much I can get away with. Let me see. Oh, for sure. Yeah. But I'm kind of like, I'm not sure that my line is,

maybe it's far off. Yeah, sure. I'm like, hey, you know what? Hey, what about those wheels on cars or something? Sure. I feel like, not that I've done many wheel things, but the- You got 20 minutes on wheels. I feel like, not that I've done many wheel things, but the... You got 20 minutes on wheels.

I wish I did. The idea I think for me is I just became more personal, I became more anecdotal, I became more, I kind of went that way. And I actually liked it. I found that, oh, look, I mean, like I have reserves of pain and sadness and upset. I feel like I'm the Saudi Arabia of unhappiness. Do you know what I mean? Like I have so much fucking.

Oh God. The oil reserves. Normal people don't understand just how much I have. You're having a Ramco level of sadness. Right, exactly. I can keep going and keep going and never run out. And never run out. Liquid gold of sadness.

And I think that the, I wonder if, if it, do you think it affects your, I mean, it's bound to affect how you appear in the world. Does it bother you? No, man. You know, really what I've come to, come to terms with and the reason why I love putting out, working on a new hour and putting out a special is almost like Wimbledon or tennis. It's like, let me just control the parameters of the game. And I'm sure you maybe have this with your kids, which is there's social media and then

there's this and there's that. So now you're playing decentralized warfare. Right. So we're in a ditch. We're fighting fucking pre-World War I style. And then now we're also doing drone warfare. Right. It's like, I want to pick the parameters.

And so what I love about the stage is there is a very, to the best of my ability, we've set the stage. We've set the parameters of what this is. Right. And I like that. And I hope I can keep it that way. And I'm sure you had this with film. Film is a different medium.

Yes. You know? Yeah. You can be a piece of shit, you can be shittier, you can be... You can be an archetype of a character. Stand-up, it's a different thing. They think they're seeing Craig and they're seeing the inner workings of Craig. And so I love just each medium for what it is.

Are you doing a stand up? Is that Hassan or is that like stage Hassan is different from real Hassan? I think it's a little bit of both. Yeah. I think it's a little bit of both. Yeah. And that's what I love. I mean the whole form is joking, not joking. Yeah. Yeah, I'm joking, not joking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, not sorry. Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, it's like... But let me just say this. This is the problem is that I think Americans, and this is why when people talk about, they have a very difficult time understanding paradox.

Indians, we understand the world as paradox. If you go to India, I mean, it's literally the movie Everything Everywhere All at Once. People go to a street in Delhi, someone's being born. My favorite movie, have you seen RRR? Of course. That is the greatest. It's an incredible movie.

Un-fucking-believable movie. Yeah. I wouldn't have brought it up, but I just, see when I watched that movie, I was like, man, it is much harder to be a movie star in India than it is in fucking America. These guys are dancing and singing and fucking doing things and acting and being really good and handsome and shit. I'm like, fuck me.

Yeah, you have to do everything. You have to be a superhero. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable what these guys are doing. And so what's interesting though is that even like life in India, it is, it is, it has so many multitudes and there's so much chaos. Yeah.

You understand that there are things that are paradoxical. America is very much about, well, we have to solve a pair. And so you can't solve a paradox. You have to, you have to just embrace it. Do you, do you, do you understand what I'm saying? I do. I feel that what's quite interesting about it as well is that, and you make an interesting observation about Americans as an American.

Yes. And I do that too. I'll sometimes say about Americans, I'll say, well, I'm a fucking American. Yeah. And you know, Donald Trump is an American and Assad Manaj is an American. Yeah.

And like, I feel like here, it's much harder to, to figure out who you're going to upset. Or it used to be, I think now the truth is you're pretty much going to upset everybody at some point, the trick is to not do them all at the same time. Yeah. You know, I was like, I don't set off all the landmines. Like it's like, it is kind of an interesting thing because interesting thing because when I made a decision not to do politics, it was my friends who were on the left assumed I had moved to the right. Oh, interesting.

And my friends who are on the right assumed I was on the right and just wasn't talking about it. And it was really interesting. It was like, but I'm not talking about it. So they wasn't talking about it. And it was really interesting. It was like, why, but I'm not talking about it. But it's what they make a decision about. But is it also like the older I get too, which is, I'm not here to also just talk about the day to day cartoon characters that take up the headlines. Right.

And you know, this with the late night show every day, those characters change. Yeah. Take out Dick Cheney, put in Stephen Miller. These are just characters. I mean, I have to say though, one of the greatest days in the history of joke writing, Dick Cheney's lawyer got shot in the face, nobody died, everybody's happy. It was like, oh my God. It's like you hardly had to go to work that day.

And duck hunting is very funny. Duck hunting, it's got the K-Sound, it's like everything. You've got dick chaining and a hat. Everything would have been, you know, it should be that way every day. But it's not, of course. And that would be like, you know, Christmas every day. But almost like an eclipse. Like when a couple days ago when Elon and Trump were, oh, it was great.

The girls were fighting. What a fun day that was. Do you know what, it was great. The girls were fighting. What a fun day that was. Do you know what? It was interesting. I remember when they got together, I was like, this has all the success of Brangelina written all over it. Totally, yeah.

And I feel like I was wrong. And so, yeah. And then in that case, you just kind of sit back and let it stew. Yeah, yeah, let it happen. And then let it kind of let the rice cooker explode. Yeah. And that's fun too.

But yeah, but the older I've gotten is also, I recognize there's a demand from the audience to go, help me put this in perspective. And I'm sure they were asking that. I don't think anybody comes to me for perspective. Really? No, I think I'm just like, you know, a sad clown in the corner. I don't think anyone's going, well, what does Craig think? Nobody's thinking what does Craig think.

I think people like you look for your wisdom and your wit, but the older I've gotten, I've also realized is like, there is, there's such rich stuff to mind from just life itself. Yeah, for sure. And that, and those subjects can be. And the aging process comes at you in a very odd way. Yeah. It's very strange for everybody. It is different for everybody and all that, but it's the same for everybody.

Yeah. It's kind of perfect for that too. Yeah. And then you can kind of slide and vacillate into other random stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. One of the things I thought about the comedy, about the politics thing was,

if I do politics, people are going to stop hearing me. You know, I'm going to stop getting jokes to people because they're only going to hear the one that made them angry and then they stop. Sure. And that, and then it took me back to that. What Peter LaSalle said to me in late night, which was, is the joke worth it? You know, is it, you know, sometimes it is. Yeah.

And sometimes it's not. And that's, that's really what I think. Talk to me about your podcast. What are you doing in your podcast? Oh man. So the podcast is, uh, it's called How Some Manage Doesn't Know. But when, when my Netflix show stopped, all these people that I would end up interviewing would still call.

Right. I want to do a, Hey, I want you to interview me, I want you to, so I'd get like governors or, you know, members of Senate being like, let's talk, can we do a, can we talk about this? I thought this was very unique where it's very strange to be DM'd by like the secretary of the treasury. Depending on who you are.

Yeah, they're very weird. They bring comedian to be like, DM'd. No, I agree. Hi, I'm on their social team. Do you want to? So I was like, what do I do with this? Can you get on the phone? Let's chat. And so I said, all right, let me just have the conversation where I can basically be, I'm basically a stand-in for the public. Right.

Where I just get to ask the questions. Yeah, this is how I think I feel about this. I clearly don't know everything there is to know about the subject, but look, let me just be a stand-in for the public and just kind of ask you how we feel. It's an interesting thing. I, whenever, it's very rare for me, and you've done a lot more of this than I have, but I, whenever I've interviewed politicians, I find myself getting a little frustrated. I feel like, because part of their media training, which is right there, they kind of bristles with me, but part of the media training is they're always told to stay on message.

And I'm like, I don't want your fucking message, I want you. Yeah. And I go, so that's a great talking point. Can you answer the question though? Yeah. Can you answer the question though? Yeah. I love that and you sound like a human captcha, but can you tell me why this makes no sense? Yeah. You know, it's those little moments of just like

popping the bubble, which is, hey, I know that you do a million Zoom calls where you can kind of have these haikus of nothing. Right. But I literally don't know what you said. Yeah. You spoke for three minutes minutes and none of it made sense. And it's funny, I think it's great that you can do that because what happens is I start going, I forget where I am and then I just like, fuck it, fine. I always try to cut to a commercial break, but of course there isn't one, because it's podcasting.

But it's, but I've never had a politician on here. I don't think I would. I don't think I would. You don't need to. Do what you want, man. Yeah, I think that's it. Then do what you want. I think that's it, right?

And I think the thing is as well is like, you know. Where are you at? What do you want to do? You can literally do anything. We're in kids supers tent. We at? What do you want to do? Yeah, you can literally do anything. We're in kids supers tent. We could literally do anything you want. I like Colm Delaney's vibe. I like kids super.

I like it out here. Do you know a guy called Peter Goober? No. Peter Goober is like, he's a big guy in Hollywood, a big successful producer. He's done other things. He's a very successful guy. He owns some giant hockey team and he's super. He's like a billionaire and all that.

But Guber, I kind of ran into him when I was in Hollywood and we used to have lunch every now and again. And when I was leaving late night, I was like, I don't know what to do now. And so I had lunch with Peter and he said, he's an older guy and he said, what you have to do is you have to be around young people who have energy and are doing things. I said, okay, isn't that a little weird? And he was like, no, no, no, no. Have them around you.

He said, and listen to what they're saying. Don't do any of it, but listen to it and you will feel enthused by, by that. And he's kind of right. And I feel like this place and I like being around the energy of that, you know, and people who are trying new stuff. So what do I want to do? I don't know. That's awesome. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. This, I like this. I like talking to you. I like talking to people that I'm interested in talking to. Yeah. That's great. If I can find a politician that I'm interested in talking to, I'll talk to them. You probably don't need to.

I don't. I'll be honest with you. It's fucking hard for me to find one that I can find a politician that I'm interested in talking to, I'll talk to them. You probably don't need to. I'll be honest with you. It's fucking hard for me to find one that I can stumble. Beyond the talking points. Yeah. It's a very difficult thing. It's really interesting. For me, the joy that I get out of it is, again, it's the same feeling I get from stand-up. Let me just say what I feel when I read about you in the New York Times.

Let me just say it. So we had this general on on General McChrystal, who was like a big general during the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. So one of my favorite moments from the interview is I go, Mr. General, are you familiar with the onion? This is a great sentence to say to one of the head of the US Army. You're familiar with the onion.com? The onion.com? Soterical? He goes, yes. I go, I showed him an onion headline article and it says, uh, US Army continues to defeat Al Qaeda by killing every single number two in charge. Fucking great headline. General McChrystal goes, the sad part is, we only killed number three.

Oh my God. And it's just... You know what? It's just fucking incredible. Yeah. I mean, it's just to me, I mean, I was like, set up punchline. Yeah. It's pretty great. Pretty great. It's pretty great. It's pretty great. It writes itself.

So 20 years of a meaningless war to get the... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't know that... He didn't get it. He didn't get the joke. But to me, it's just... Hey, if that's all I do, I said my piece, I said how I really feel about it, how many people feel about it. Cool.

And by the way, that's okay. Like, I'm at peace with that. I think it's great. I'm very happy with it. Yeah, I think you should be. I'm happy you were here. Thanks for the way, that's okay. Like I'm at peace with that. I think it's great. I'm very happy with it. Yeah, I think you should be. I'm happy you were here. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. All right. Yeah, man.

Thanks, man. Yeah, man. I know a lot of cops and They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful?

The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila.

And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms. But not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here.

If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. When we step beyond the edge of what we know. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating.

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