Judge John Hodgman - A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Slob and B.F.F.-R.I.P.: Live at WNYC's Greene Space

Episode Date: November 7, 2012

Our second live show at WNYC's Greene Space, with musical performances from Jean Grae, Mela Machinko and DJ Mr. Len. Please note: this week's episode contains some explicit language.

Hey everybody, it's me, Bailiff Jesse. We recorded this episode live at WNYC's Green Space in New York, and we had a great time. We even had Jean Grey perform a few songs for us. I should mention, though, that there's a little bit of explicit language during the course of this episode that you wouldn't usually find on the show. So be forewarned if you've got younger listeners around. Enjoy the show. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, a portrait of the artist as a young slob.

Please welcome our litigants, Catherine and Amy. Catherine and Amy have been friends since college. They meet up at a local cafe to write together several times a week. Amy recently showed up wearing an outfit that Catherine found to be unprofessional and unbecoming of Amy's image as a writer. Does Amy need to improve her image to be taken seriously? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. You may be seated Okay, right off the bat I'm going to say I detect some over-enthusiastic wooing I suggest it may be sarcastic wooing.

I'm going to immediately rule an injunction against the wooing from this gentleman right here. That really hurt my ear. I appreciate your enthusiasm. Let's just keep the wooing down to a minimum. Now I'm going to read to you from a piece of culture. I think what I often see is that people are frightened about justice because it scares them or makes them feel insecure. They just put it down. On the whole, people that may say mean things about our court,

I think that's usually because they feel in some ways excluded, you know, not part of the cool group. So as a result, they just mock it. Bail if Jesse, swear them in. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he wears only judicial robes, even in the act of love? I do. I do.

Very well. Judge Hodgman? Catherine, Amy, which one is Catherine, please? All right, very well. And Amy, you are the other one. I'm going to remember that you are Amy because you have a Minnie Mouse bow in your hair. For an immediate summary judgment in your favor,

can you identify the piece of culture that I paraphrased after I told that man to stop wooing so hard in my ear? Was it the TV series Hercules, the legendary adventures? Okay, sarcasm noted. Genuine. Also, that's not even the name of that show. Yes, I knew it. The Legendary Journeys.

The Legendary Journeys. I'll leave. Amy? Yeah, I was going to say Xeno Warrior Princess. Oh, sarcasm noted. Very good. No, the answer was the September issue. That was Anna Wintour talking about

fashion and not about justice. That's how I messed with your brains. Now, Catherine, you bring the case against Minnie Mouse. What's the problem? I do. I think the problem is apparent. I'd like to direct

everyone to the evidence there are a lot of people in this room there are a lot of people watching on streaming internet video but then there are going to be a lot of people who are hearing this who cannot see exactly what we can see so describe the situation you guys get together to write

and you have a problem with your friend's apparel how would you describe your friend's apparel in the most demeaning and judgmental way possible? Well, we get together to write at Vagabond Cafe. Please don't buzz market your cafe. Nice job. I think you knew what you were doing, too. So far, I think we got a Xena reference, a Hercules reference, a buzz market.

I think this might be the most meta-Judge John Hodgman ever. I think I know exactly what you guys are up to. Don't think I can't see through you. And you're wearing earrings that are, what is going on? What are your earrings? Your little action figure earrings? Yes. This whole thing is very disturbing to me.

I can't even recognize what those action figures are. They're off-brand. They're off-brand? What are your earrings? Your little action figure earrings? Yes. This whole thing is very disturbing to me. I'm sorry. I can't even recognize what those action figures are. They're off-brand. They're off-brand Lego minifigs? Yes, I can't buzz market them. Yes, yes. You couldn't get regular Lego minifigs? You got knockoffs on Canal Street?

Describe what your friend is wearing. Oh, my. I just noticed that your friend is holding an R2-D2 lunchbox. This is... I'm about-D2 lunchbox. This is, this is... I'm about to declare a mistrial for getting too cute right off the bat. Please describe your friend's outfit and then we'll talk about

the various cafes and favorite internet hubs and social networks that you like to use later. Okay. What is she wearing, top to bottom? Amy is wearing a bow that is made from a belt. It is reminiscent, as the judge said, of Minnie Mouse.

She is wearing an old sweatshirt with two hedgehogs. She claims that they are hedgehogs. I think they may be porcupines. You're wrong. We'll see. I will stipulate to hedgehogs. She claims that they are hedgehogs. I think they may be porcupines. You're wrong. We'll see. I will stipulate to hedgehogs right away. I know what one looks like. It was my nickname in elementary school.

Go on. She is also wearing olive green sweatpants and sneakers. I wouldn't say olive green, no. Forest green, thank you. Thank you I wouldn't say olive green. No. Ooh. Ooh. Forest green. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Forest green. Go on. For the record, you are? Racing green. Oh, yeah. That could be for an MG car. Yeah, sure. All right. That's covered in sweatpants.

And then for, okay, racing green, sweatpants, and then for footwear? Shiny sneakers. Mm-hmm. And then an R2-D2 lunchbox, which I presume is full of some other weird popular culture reference. This is actually evidence. Do you have old Battlestar Galactica figures in there or something? You're going to blow my mind with later on.

And this is what I used to write. An old action figure of Boxy dipped in ink. Now, this is actually evidence against the... If it's evidence against Catherine, I think it's working against you. But we'll move on. Okay, so she wears this outfit, which is a little bit silly.

Right. Let's say that. Right. And you are offended because she is wearing it to your pretend job, sitting together at a cafe to write. Is that correct? I am. And what kind of writing do you do in this unnamed cafe? We do science fiction. Oh, really? Okay. You never would have guessed. You write science fiction,

novels, novellas, novelettes? We write short stories. Together stories together and collaborate or you just you just write your individual ones and you keep an eye on each other so you don't get transported to another world we mostly do individual individually okay all right so what what short what what science fiction story are you working on right now i'm currently working on a story called the mortuaries about a futuristic mortuary. Fitting. All right, all right, I'll buy it. And Amy, what are you working on right now? I'm working on a novel about women

who get cryogenically frozen and sold to men and other women for sex and other things. Sounds great. The fact that you said it wearing a Minnie Mouse bow kind of terrified me. All right. And so you think that this is not appropriate attire to show up in a public place to write about cryogenic prostitution rings. Right. Why? Why is this inappropriate? Well, I feel that as writers, as especially science fiction writers, we need to walk the line between whimsy and insanity.

And I feel this is veering on the edge of some sort of reclusive, slovenly lifestyle. So knockoff minifig earrings is whimsy. Yes. And all of this is insanity. Exactly. Accessig earrings is whimsy. Yes. And all of this is insanity. Exactly. Accessorizing is whimsy. Accessorizing is whimsy, but, but dressing like an insane person. Is that a fair thing to say?

Am I characterizing you? You know, I would say. Let me ask you, because here's the thing. Traditionally. You have to understand that you are both, you are both incredibly suspect here because, You have to understand, you are both incredibly suspect here, because a lot of this feels put on to some degree. A lot of this feels manufactured. You guys were buzz marketing the heck out of your appearance on this show on Twitter earlier today.

And I was like, oh, these young ladies are just a science fiction podcast cryogenic whores. But there was one thing that I saw that made me think, oh, maybe this is authentic, which was you were wearing that bow in your profile picture. I wear this bow all the time on Twitter. So that's my question. Did you put that on for Twitter, madam, or you wear that all the time? I wear this bow. I have co-workers here. They're going to attest to this. I wear this to work. I wear this. I wear this to events. I've worn this to the National Book Awards. I've worn this anywhere. Well, you don't have to brag. And so to what degree, this is part of what I need to understand here.

And so to what degree, this is part of what I need to understand here. To what degree is, how many levels of sarcasm are at work with regard to this outfit? And notice, I did not say, like, irony, right? Because irony is a gesture that is the opposite of what you expect. But you are a writer and a person in your 20s, so hilarious hedgehog sweaters are exactly what I expect. I mean, this is from Urban Outfitters. This is an expected. Wow, I expect. I mean, this is from Urban Outfitters. This is an expected... Wow, buzz marketing. Okay, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Because that truly is like that. You're really laying down the gauntlet of inauthentic cool there. Do you know what I mean? It's like, are you guys from Urban Outfitters? Is that what's going on here? That's really where we work.

But now you're not telling the truth, are you? Look, I'm trying to have an authentic conversation with you. So as authentically as you can, Amy, first of all, hand me the R2-D2 thing. I just can't. I'll just put this away because this is... Well, this is actually Catherine's lunchbox. This is what I wanted to bring up. She wants to be...

Yeah, I understand. I understand. Minifig has some quirks, too. But right now, we're on you. Okay, okay. So you wear that disconcerting bow in your hair all the time. I do. And what is that?

Tell me why. What does it mean to you? I just like it. My friend was wearing it as a belt on her dress for her birthday, and I took it and I said, can I wear it on my head? And how long ago was that, 30 years? Yes. This was a year ago.

It was a year ago? Or like a year and a half ago. And what are you trying to get out of this? Out of wearing a bow? It's an attention grabber. Yeah, well, you know, a lot of young children love it. A lot of homeless people love it. So you're trying to cryogenically freeze children and homeless people?

Absolutely, yeah. No, I mean, I just really like it. I've always, like, in college, I wore a postman hat for, like, four years. I like having something on my head. Bailiff Jessie, you are something of a men's fashion expert. Is there something that you would like to say about anything you've heard so far? This is outside of your bailiwick. Your bailiff-wick, if you will.

Okay, I'm going to go backstage and shoot myself now. But aside from, oh boy, do you have anything else you want to add? Yeah, I mean, if I was going to sum up my feelings just very briefly, it would be a postman hat. I got it from my friend, and I liked it. By the way, let the record reflect that I said that sentence incredulously. Well, there is some precedence, you know, particularly from a... Yes, postmen wear them. I meant to say that there is some precedence for writers taking on a particular signature fashion style.

Tom Wolfe wears a white suit all the time. Mark Twain, also a white suit. Truman Capote, also a white suit. There were a couple that weren't white suits. Oscar Wilde dressed like the fourth Doctor Who all the time. William S. Burroughs had his stingy brim heroin fedora and gun. Ernest Hemingway had a turtleneck beard. And, of course, there's Charles Bukowski's vomit shirt.

Is that what you're going for? I don't think I could commit to a vomit shirt, but I like this. So have any of your novels been published at this time? Does it look like any of my novels have been published at this time? Well, I would say normally only a published novelist could get away with what you're doing. No. But let's say hypothetically your novel is published. Right.

Are you going to be sporting that bow or are you going to be on to an evil Knievel helmet at that time? Well, this is the thing. I wore the Postman hat for like four years. So maybe after four years, something else will come to me. A new look. Yes. Now, Catherine, is this authentically just the way Amy is? How long have you known each other?

We have known each other now for seven years. Okay. Yes. And she has a kooky style all her own. Is that true all the time? I wouldn't call it a style. I feel that sweatpants are not a style. They are a lack of style.

And how should a writer dress? A beret? Perhaps a tasteful beret. Right, horn-rimmed glasses, tweed jacket. Yeah, that's all acceptable. It's about the accessorizing. I think you should keep it simple, elegant, with a touch of eccentricity. So if she had the right handbag.

If it was a hedgehog handbag, fine, fine. But I don't know, so are you embarrassed to be seen in this cafe, on Sunday Cafe? It doesn't seem like it. You didn't leave. No, that's true. But I was. I felt that it reflected upon me. It reflected upon our community.

It's really, it's about all of you. Speak more to that. it's really it's about all of you speak more to that by your community do you mean science fiction writers I do

right I do have you seen what science fiction writers are yeah you ever see how Isaac Asimov dressed

that guy rocked a lot of bolo ties and some serious sideburns it is not always considered to be the most fashion forward of all of the nerdly writerly communities. Is that not so? That is true, but I'd like to change that image. I'd like to be at the forefront of that.

And is it more important because you are both women science fiction authors? Does that add a level of importance to your assessment here? I believe it does. I believe we need to earn respect. And so I believe we need to have, again, a style. I don't begrudge Amy her style. I just think... No, that's exactly what you're doing. I'm not sure you understand what's happening. I presume you're asking me to order her to dress differently when she shows up at the cafe to write about cryogenically frozen women. Is that correct? That is correct. What would you like me to have her? Excuse me. I'll let you speak

now. Go ahead, Chelsea. I think what she's saying is that she wants her to wear clothes that demand respect, like Lego earrings. Well, I would agree with that if they were actually Lego earrings. Well, I would agree with that if they were actually Lego earrings. Yeah, they're off-brand. Yeah. They're too big. Those are totally in the uncanny valley of Lego earrings at this point. You almost have whole men dangling from your ears.

Jaundiced whole men. It's gross. What would you have Amy wear? It's not so much about... Let's go. Do it. I may have to order this, so I need to know. I can't tell her what to wear. I guess it's not so much what I would have her wear as what I wouldn't

have her wear. I would request that she be banned from wearing sweatpants and anything involving animals. No, that's too broad. You need to be very specific in what you would have her wear. Okay. Gray tights, a black skirt, blue top. Yes, I believe we should be right or twit. If you were going to go pick out an outfit for her, where would you go to buy it? Are you sure you want us to name names? Yeah, in this case, I'll

allow it because I want to know. Well, I guess this is my point. I would probably take her somewhere simple, housing works, Goodwill. I don't think you need to... Wow. You would take me and leave me at Goodwill? Wow.

Now you're afraid to buzz market a for-profit organization. You're the one who's telling her she's got to dress nice. You understand. You're the monster in this situation. Own up and drop a brand name,

the Limited, whatever. Housing works, for heaven's sake. I mean, we should all support it, of course, but I just mean to say, have the courage of your convictions. Okay, let's take you to Ann Taylor Loft, perhaps. We'll take you somewhere. How dare you.

Why is it important for women science fiction writers to dress like 49-year-old middle managers? Again, I think, you know, as a science fiction fan, it's a hard genre for women especially to break into. a science fiction fan. It's a hard genre for women especially to break into. I think the focus of the mainstream

has been turned on science fiction. So I think there's a certain image that you need to project if you're going to make it. Would you say that's a sort of

Lady Lions Club type image? The Lady Lions Club. Overruled Lady Rotarians Have you Do you have a day job as well Or are you a practicing author I do have a day job

Author As well And have you sold Have you sold a book or anything Short stories Would you say you guys Are at the same level Professionally at this stage

I would say so Okay. And who writes more? Who writes more, Catherine? I do. I don't think so. Is this just a she said, she said situation or do we have word counts of how much you've completed and sent out? I don't think we've calculated. So you write less, if that's your answer. I don't think, what would you say, Amy? Who writes more? I would say I write more. I write like 2,000 words. An hour? A day, maybe. Yeah, an hour, a minute. 2,000 words a day? Yeah, I mean, they're not necessarily good words. An earth day. An Earth Day. I mean, in my...

A standard Terran day. I mean, this is... This is maybe not good because my co-workers are here. I do it all not on work time. What is your real job? I work at the National Book Foundation. Oh, okay. That's why you get to go to the National Book Award even with that thing in your hair? Yeah, it has nothing to do with me being a successful writer. I don't mean to disparage you. You have. To go to the National

Book Awards, how do you get an invite to that? Because I used to work in publishing. I never got anything. I'll make sure you... And I dress nice. I dress up good. I'm wearing a tie right now. I was telling sure you... And I dress nice. I dress up good. I'm wearing a tie right now. I was telling my co-workers about this and they were like, get him to host the National Book Awards.

Done. You win. Yay! Yay! I surrender. Order! Order! That's a separate case, a sidebar that I just had. How many words a day do you write, Catherine? Oh, probably a thousand.

That's 50%. And what's more important in writing, quantity or quality? Quality. Wrong. Quantity. How many days a week do you write? Catherine Five Is that an honest answer?

Yes How many hours a day? At least an hour Alright Amy I'm going to get you fired How many days a week do you write? I write probably five And how many hours a day? Like two or three

You're just making that up now Is that true? No I mean You're under oath Yes yes two or three How many novels have you completed that are not published yet? just making that up now. No, no, I mean... You're under oath. Yes, yes, two or three. How many novels have you completed that are not published yet?

Oh, one, but it's not complete. Not this one, though. No, this one is... Is this the one or is there another one in a drawer? There's like half.

Don't wait for the translation. Answer the question. Okay, okay, okay. There's parts of other ones in other drawers, many drawers. Okay. Have you completed a novel?

I have. Ooh. And are you working on a new one now? I am. All right. Are you? I am. Okay.

How would you like this to come out, Amy, if I rule in your favor? What would you like me to order? Well, I would like to just be able to wear whatever I want. Have that be fine. I would also like that Catherine would have to find one nice thing to say about whatever I wear. And

she's not going to talk about this, but in college, she used to wear this bathrobe kimono thing to class. And I would like her to have to wear that. We all... Come on. So you want her to say one nice thing,

and then one or more vengeance wearings of the kimono. Just one, I think, is fair. And then this is the evidence that you presented, this R2-D2 lunchbox. That is Catherine's literal lunchbox that she brings to work, and I just feel like it's relevant. Just address the court, please, in the microphone, because we're losing a little bit there. I feel like it's relevant to the case if we're talking about fashion and taking risks with fashion. No, no.

This is what you bring to the cafe? No, no, she brings us to work. Oh, to your work. What is your job, may I ask? Yes, I work at InterExchange doing study abroad programs. Well, there's nothing funny in that. Still food in there, yeah? Now, if there was any doubt that this was authentic,

there is half a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I think I have everything I need to make my ruling. I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Okay, Catherine, we need to get into this real quick. That was rough.

I know. Just, I just like, where do you draw the line? Like, where does the, how is this line in your head that so clearly has Lego earrings on one, like Glego earrings, Legart earrings on one side and sweatpants on the other. What is the difference? Well, I think it's not so much

about where the line is as the fact that Amy is far, far, far over it. I mean, sweatpants. If you don't know where the line is, how do you know I'm over it? Hedgehogs.

I don't know. Also, Ann Taylor Loft? Why don't you just say Lane Bryant? Okay. Now, I have another issue that I need to deal with Amy, which is you are wearing sweatpants in public. Look, the sweatshirt, Minnie Mouse thing I understand. Sweatshirt I understand.

Sweatpants in public. I will make an exception. Quick question. Yes. Are you Rocky from the movie Rocky? A lot of people have mistaken me for Sylvester Stallone. It's because you're mumbling. It's because you're mumbling.

That's right. That's right. What makes you think that's appropriate to wear in public? They're so comfortable. You're a grown-up, though, right? But they're comfy. Okay, haven't you ever worn something that people... No, I never.

I'm a newbie. You never wear anything? This is literally the first time I've had a stitch-on. But not sweatpants. Surely those are for lounging. They say wolves on the side. There's an animal motif. No.

That was a genuine cry of emotional distress. Do not interpret that as an accusation or a demonstrate. That was a feeling coming out of someone's body through their mouth. Yes. It's true. I actually did wear, I wore this part with regular pants

to work, and my coworkers were like, oh, this is really cute. And then I brought these in, and they were like, what the hell are you thinking? Are you just taunting the world?

I just, you know, do what I want. want no more no's uh here's a quick question katherine do you genuinely feel uh uncomfortable or betrayed or do you not like to be seen with Amy when she's dressed this way? Sincerely. I would say that it does give me pause. I think especially that night. She'd come from work.

I was expecting a pretty put-together outfit. And this came in the door. I made a pit stop. I didn't go to work wearing this. Catherine, how do you feel when Amy wears those ridiculous earrings? You mean Amy? Oh, wait. Amy.

Oh, sorry about that. I, you know, I think that they're the last sort of gasp of creativity, like clinging to her ears, saying, don't throw me away. It sounds like there's not enough themes in your sci-fi novels. You got to get sex slavery, cryogenics, throw in a few more themes. Can you tell me the premise of your new novel? I can. I promise to steal it.

It's about, I'll tell you the general theme, cannibals and minotaurs. Why have one when you can have both? I think that's pretty simple. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Thank you. You may be seated. Did you say cannibals and minotaurs? I did. How many minotaurs?

Several. That's too many. I used to be a literary agent, I'm just telling you. You can only have one minotaur in a novel. That's a rule. I used to give a literary agent, I'm just telling you. You can only have one minotaur in a novel. That's a rule. I used to give a lot of advice. I used to give a lot of advice when I was a literary agent, and after I was a literary agent online,

a lot of people would ask, almost seriously, how to dress like a writer. And I would explain to them different brands of berets that they could wear, and long scarves and and that sort of thing and people took it pretty seriously but the joke was of course that it is easy to dress like a writer it is very hard to write and to be a writer um fran lebowitz who's one of my heroes uh is known for wearing bespoke sabal realel suits from Anderson and Shepard.

And you may note that she has not written a book in 31 years. And the novel she has been working on all that time is reportedly called Exterior Signs of Wealth, and it is supposedly about rich people who want to be artists. I know that because I read it in a Paris Review interview in 1993, when she had been working on it for 12 years. And one way for a rich person to pretend to be an artist is to dress like an artist. So my big challenge when I saw that bow on your head in your Twitter and then you showed up wearing it was what is going on here? My big challenge when I saw

that bow on your head, which is a big attention grabber on your Twitter profile, and then again when you walked in here, was how much of that is you and how much of that is an act? How much of that is authentic? How much of that is you being extra eccentric in order to get attention?

How much are you writing and how much are you dressing like a crazy person, an eccentric type of writer? Because writing, after all, is entirely about authenticity. And so if I got a sense that either of you were faking it in some degree here, I would rule very firmly against you. At the same time, I also respect your point of view.

A long time ago, when I was a student of clarinet at the New England Conservatory of Music in my teens, and I was... I know, ladies, calm down. And I was playing in my woodwind quintet one afternoon. And the oboist, a lovely young woman who was my pal, suggested that on our lunch break we go over to the Sheraton, which was hosting one of the big early science fiction fantasy cons at that time, conventions and also confidence games. Now you would think that given what I just told you as Matic Loner, playing clarinet in a woodwind quintet, that I was about as nerdy as it got. But then I went

to this convention, and I saw, oh my goodness, it gets much more nerdy than I thought. And I remember walking around just go and seeing people in tremendous costumes and some costumes that we weren't sure if they were costumes. And it might just be what they wore anyway, including a guy looking at a bulletin board service at the time when they were still bulletin boards, chuckling to himself about some proto memes from the 80s, wearing no shoes. And that really offended me and then that was just in the main floor then I looked down into the main convention floor from above and it was as a seething mass of delightful nerdery and dysfunction and I thought this this is not for me and I left screaming because I like stuff that

comes out of those conventions and I like science fiction I like stuff that comes out of those conventions. And I like science fiction. I like fantasy. I like nerds. I wouldn't have made my Oscar Wilde, Doctor Who joke if I didn't. And yet at the same time, I see what you're saying in terms of, well, this is if we want to be taken seriously, we may need to dress up somewhat seriously. So I have two points of view that I have to weigh here. And the one that concerns me the most, honestly, is yours, Catherine. Because it seems to me that those Lego earrings

and your R2-D2 lunchbox, that's just nerd posing at this point. Yeah. What you're talking about is you want to pass as a normal. And that's not what you are, is it? No. No, you're not a normal, are you? That's right.

I don't think you need to be as self-conscious as you are about outward signs of nerdery. If you guys were writing serious short stories about people with feelings... LAUGHTER I might say that there would be some cocktail parties I dare say that you might not be invited to, but you're going to the National Book Awards anyway. And I do feel that you are authentically this.

And I also trust that you are authentically a writer because, honestly, you are both putting in the work. And I do believe that writing is about quantity more than quality especially when you're starting and learning your voice and getting and getting down what you need to do and the fact that you are doing it while actively hindering your mainstream career dressed that way to me suggests that that is an actual expression of who you are. And therefore, I am loathe to force you to dress another way, and certainly not Ann Tiller Loft. That said, what you're wearing is right now pajamas, and that's not okay.

Sweatpants is not okay under any circumstances. Do you understand that? I mean, unless you are working out or lounging around. If you're going to go out into the world, please, no elastic waist until you are 59. But otherwise, I rule hedgehogs, bow, and whatever other crazy freak flag you want to fly is absolutely okay with me. I rule in favor of the defendant. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules.

That is all. And just to be clear about my impartiality here, just to be clear about my impartiality here, I really wanted to order you to take that thing off your head. But I do believe that that's all you. And I don't mean to suggest that you're a big phony. Do you understand what I'm saying? Just don't worry about it so much. That's all. All right. Double gavel. That is all. Amy.

Amy, this was a compromise ruling. You've been ordered not to wear sweatpants in public, but you have been allowed to let your bowhead fly. How are you feeling? Well, you know, I think it's a partial victory, but the bow is very important to me as I touch it. Are you saying it's like some sort of security blanket that's your pinky? I mean, in a way, it kind of is. I feel better when I have it on. I wear it a lot. But, you know,

these are extremely comfortable, and that's going to be tough to give up. I may just have to give up going outside. Then you would be a real writer. Catherine, you received a sort of unexpected rebuke here. Are you ready to change your life a little? I guess I am, and I got what I wanted. I wanted Amy not to wear sweatpants, so I'm happy with that. And I guess I need to take a look at myself, too. Is there still half a peanut butter sandwich in there?

And chocolate chips. Amy, Catherine, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. They're just going to keep clapping until you tell them to stop. I told them to do that. It's my own fault. Hey, guess what? It's 7.40. The Giants game has just started, so I don't need to check in with the audience for the score.

You want to clear the docket? Yeah, let's do that. Okay. Oh! Who yelled out, yeah? Get out. Yeah, Jesse, we got a lot on the docket. Let's clear it.

Okay, here's something from Sasha. My friend Remy and I are high school students. She met someone at camp who became her boyfriend, and since then, she has texted him constantly. She texts him whether we're going for walks or staying in to watch movies. What was that sentence? I tell her that it's less fun to hang out when she's talking to someone else at the same time and not making eye contact with me. She says that she's an excellent multitasker and that I'm being oversensitive. Is she right? Plus, side question, is it crazy to ask her not to use her phone

if she's already seen the movie we're watching? Okay, this girl's a monster. Where is this couple from? Or this non-couple, I should say. It does not say high school. I have... The teenage years. I have high school students in Ottawa.

Oh, okay. That must have been redacted from mine. Jesse refuses to admit that Canada exists. Yes, Sasha, I can imagine it is less fun to hang out on these fake dates you're going on with this woman. Not even a woman, this young... hang on, let me start that again. Yes, Sasha, I can imagine it is less fun to see movies and hang out with and go on long walks with a girl who is not your girlfriend, whom you clearly desperately want to be your girlfriend,

who is texting her actual boyfriend in another part of Canada. I presume he is from Manitoba, home of the creeps. And there's just nothing you can do about that other than to appreciate that, yes, while it is absolutely a complete and utter wrong thing to do to text during any movie, even one you have seen before, this person is not a good person for you to be hanging around with, whether you are in Canada or the United States. And I'm going to text her now and tell her to stop hanging around with you. And send. That's an international rate there,

so you should appreciate what I'm doing for you. Sasha texting a high schooler in Canada. That's, no, I take that back. I'm going to delete it now. Next case, please. Here's another friendship question from Deb. I'm addicted to, I'm going to do a Deb impression. If you guys knew Deb, you would be like super.

I'm addicted to chewing gum, and so if my best friend is chewing some, I will ask her for a piece. If she does not have a new piece that is individually wrapped and unchewed, I will ask her for some, not all, of the piece that she is currently chewing. She is the only person from whom I'd ask this because no one else, including my husband, will consent. I believe that if I'm willing to accept her pre-chewed gum, that the burden of the

grossness of this proposition is mine to bear. I know it makes her uncomfortable, but it's a small price to pay for a committed lifetime of friendship. We've been friends for over 20 years. Do I need to stop asking her for pre-chewed gum? Immediately. Immediately is the answer. You may not be able to see this, Deb,

but I'm now wearing a patented Bukowski vomit shirt from Urban Outfitters. Just listening to that whole thing. Like, this is the beginning. This is like the solution of an episode of House. Like, how... Like, how did this person also get the Captain Tripp super flu? And then what would happen is they would determine, they would not ever guess that the person had been sharing chewing gum,

but instead imagine that it had gone airborne and therefore quarantined the whole town and then firebomb it. How many people must die so that you can continue your sick, disgusting habit? Because I think you know the gum epidemic can be stopped. And to do so, I'm going to ask you to meditate soberly on your addiction and particularly on this photograph that I found on the internet.

Okay, this is Barry Chappell, and he was addicted to cigarettes, and he chewed Nicorette gum to get over his addiction, which he then sculpted into a giant ball made entirely of pre-chewed Nicorette gum. It weighs 175 pounds, 62 inches in circumference, and is now a world record holder. He is now the world record holder for ball of pre-chewed gum. And what you need to think about, Deb, and all of you, frankly, is that when you swallow gum, that stays in your stomach forever.

Next question, please. Okay, this is from Carl. Again, if you guys knew Carl. I recently had a series of friends stay with me in my group house. In each case, the visitor slept on the couch in our shared living room. I insist that these people were couch surfers, meaning people staying in my home for free to save money on their trips.

My friend David insists that because they were friends of mine, they were not couch surfers. He says couch surfers are travelers matched with a host in a local community. Essentially, it's also a really good David. I'm not trying to brag. Essentially, to be a couch surfer, they must be a stranger to the host. What should we call these visitors?

I did not realize this, but there are website services that match people on the Internet, people who are looking for a place to stay with homes in which they can stay with the other person. It's not taking over the apartment, but you actually go sleep on the couch of another person. Now, I'm not going to mention the name of the most popular website that offers this service because of my prohibition on buzz marketing and people getting murdered. of my prohibition on buzz marketing and people getting murdered.

And I also remain skeptical of a service on the internet that is based entirely on the one thing that you should never do on the internet, which is invite a stranger from the internet into your home. But I don't need to talk about that service because the fact is that simple deadbeatism is far older than even the creepiest Internet. The term couch surfing was one that was used when I was in college to mean people who moved from apartment to apartment, from city to city, staying on friends' sofas and futons and whatnot. And this was back when the Internet was just a piece of paper that we handed around. So therefore, I will say that you may use the term to describe what you were talking about, which is deadbeats coming to your home that you know and staying on your couch. And meanwhile, I'm going to start two new Internet services.

The first is called WatchMeWhileISleep.com. internet services. The first is called WatchMeWhileISleep.com. And here is precisely where I hide my house keys.com. I think that's the clearing of the docket. Shall we, sir, enjoy some music? I would love to. This is a new segment of the show, a new segment of the court called May It Please the Court, where I no longer have to listen to you people talk,

and instead I can listen to one of my very favorite recording artists perform a music that I like. And so, Jesse, would you please announce our guest tonight? Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our musical guest, Jean Grey. Jean Grey. Hey, everybody. How you doing? How you doing? Good, good. We are enjoying that. So the way we would normally do this song that we're going to do is to have everybody get up and kind of do a two-step.

But there's a bunch of cameras around, and we don't want to block that. So we're going to have you... And also, I was a little concerned with the rhythm factor. It's kind of like. I'm also a little shaky about the clapping, but we'll see how this happens. Mr. Lin over here on the ones and twos. This is Mila Machinko.

And so what we're going to do, we're going to jam called You Really Don't Have to Clap for Them. They said Jean Cray. They're just here. So we're going to get you guys to clap in sections. You guys are a really small section of people, but it's okay. We're going to work it out. So if you turn it up a little bit, that's pretty good.

So we're going to start with this section, go over there, and then go over there. Good luck with keeping up. We'll see what happens when the beat drops. All right? Let's see how this works. Got to shake it. Everybody just together Slow it down a little bit Slow it down a little bit. Slow it down. Get into the groove. We're still going to do the two-step, though. Start again.

So in your mind, you can do this. Or if you got a tiny bit of rhythm in your shoulders, you can do that too. You guys at the back are not exempt from clapping. Back here at square one. Like I just did the home base run. Without winning any bases though. All basic reasoning out the window.

Ron Brown shit, Eric Sermon style. Like I got kicked off a cloud Method Man 95 Rap references because you get them all You even get that I should've said it was 94 Hard place when you wanna still rock to it Living in my glass house Steady throwing rocks through it all

I never stopped feeling the love for ya Had to stop being the one for you I think too much Overanalyzing everything Sucks I'm over, over-dramatizing everything But we're never on the level we're on Unless we're cutting, lusting

We never argued when thrusting But still, after then it just turns to dust Brother, swear I never love another If this really worked out This is just like watching fitness infomercials on the couch Ouch, I know you're lazy It's easier to pick a partner less crazy Much less work, less purpose, less of A to Z

I'm an alpha, better start to stay with me My palpitations do still occur though Me and you, Samarla, situations blur so much I be thinking that this shit could actually work again. Even nice to have you back in my world as my friend. Sometimes I gotta say it simply, cause sometimes things are simple. We make it complicated for the win-be, cause otherwise we just be stressed with all our n-words. Inner child, inner space, inner monologue.

We exchange intercourse without a dialogue. Introduce intimate ways to turn our fire off. Thinking us, it seeks a spotlight higher. Mom, I still adore you. You adore me theoretically. So now I've got to shut the door on you. So I can find out who is next for me. Repeat after me.

You and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. That's you and me and everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know.

You and me and everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know. When I do that, that means sing along to the hook. You and me and everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know Don't be shy That's you and me and everyone we know Nope, I still can't hear it goes You and me and everyone we know

You and me and everyone we know That's better Keep going. Keep going. You and me and everyone we know It's you and me and everyone we know You and me and everyone we know It's you and me and everyone we know You and me and everyone we know It's you and me and everyone we know

We're gonna take that down a bit. It's you and me and everyone we know You and me and everyone we know It's you and me, everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know. It's you and me and everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know. Whisper it this time. It goes you and me and everyone we know. You and me and everyone we know.

It's you and me and everyone we know. Good job, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Jean Grey. That's CJ Mr. Lent. And that is Mila Machinko. Thank you, John and Jesse. Jean Grey, ladies. We're going to get out of here.

We'll be back. Jean Grey, ladies and gentlemen. Yes. Jean Grey. Oh, boy. Hello, I'm your Judge john hodgman the judge john hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you our members of course thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org and they are all your favorites if you want to join

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If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. It's the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Now, BFF, RIP. Please welcome our litigants, Chad and Angela. Playing the part of Chad will be Richard Maul, Night Court's bull. Thank you. Chad and Angela have been friends for years.

Angela insists that with her level of access to Chad and knowledge of his habits, she could kill him and get away with it. Chad says she might be able to commit homicide, but she'd never get off scot-free. Who is right and who is wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman

enters the courtroom. You may be seated. Let's change the subject, Jesse, can't we? Okay, Your Honor. Want me to tell you one of my ideas for shutting the pie hole of my father? I may be old-fashioned, but I thought pie hole shutting was against the law. But not against the law of nature. My theory is that everybody is a potential pie hole shutter. Didn't you ever want to shut someone's pie hole? Say, one of those useless fellows Miriam was running around with. Well, you can't go around shutting people's pie holes just because you think they're useless.

Oh, what's a pie hole or two? Some pie holes are better off shut, Judge. Take Miriam and my father, for instance. It reminds me of a wonderful idea I had once. I used to put myself to sleep at night figuring it out. Now, let's say that you want to tell Miriam to shut her piehole. Why would I want to do that?

Well, let's say she refuses to give you a divorce. What? Let's say you'd be afraid to shut her piehole because you'd get caught. And what would trip you up? Motive. Now, here's the plan. I'm afraid I haven't time to listen to this.

It's so simple, too. A couple of fellas meet accidentally, like you and me. Well, we actually know each other very well. No connection between them at all. Never seen each other before. Well... Each of them has somebody whose pie hole

they'd like to shut. But he can't pie hole shut the person he wants to. He'll get caught. So they swap pie holes. Swap pie holes? Each fellow shuts the

other fellow's pie hole. Then there's nothing to connect them. The one who had the motive isn't there. Each fellow shuts the pie hole of a total stranger. For example, your wife, my father, Chris Cross. Oh, Jesse, just swear them in. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

Yes. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he hasn't murdered in months. Sure. Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman? It is true that I, as a deranged millionaire, occasionally play the most dangerous game. But it is not the

most dangerous game you were thinking of. We no longer take a vagrant to an island and hunt that person for bloodsport. The most dangerous game is much more civilized. It's a simple game of Scrabble. Human Scrabble, I should say. Human murder Scrabble. But as we are in a court of law,

there shall be no murder here on this stage unless that is your plan. Angie, why do you want to murder Chad? I don't want to murder Chad. That's exactly what a murderer would say. No, I do you want to murder Chad? I don't want to murder Chad. That's exactly what a murderer would say. No, I don't want to. Because we're so,

we work together when the parameters of this were a step. At the time that I said that I could murder Chad, we lived two blocks away from each other. We worked together, went to college together, spent all our time together. Did you go to college at the school for scoundrels?

What is the job that you do? Do you still work together? Yes. What is that job, if I may ask? We work for a going internet concern. Thank you for your vagueness. I was afraid to buzz market. No, no, I appreciate that.

All right. We're e-commerce managers for a shoe website. Excuse me? Say it again. That's too specific. We're e-commerce managers for a shoe website. Excuse me? Say it again? That's too specific. We're e-commerce managers for a shoe website. Oh, no wonder you want to kill. No wonder you're full of murderous rage.

I mostly Photoshop. Google. And you guys have known each other for a long time. Yeah, we went to college together. But you were not a couple. Is that correct? Do I understand that correctly? Okay.

It's not that gross. No, no, no. If we could start from the beginning. You were sitting around. How did it come up that you were a candidate for murder? So I lived in Sunset Park for many years, and Angela and her fiancé lived out somewhere in

Long Island, but then she started a graduate program, so she had to move here so she could go to class in the evenings. This is, by the way, the most boring murder story I've ever heard. So we were murdering somebody, and she was like, hey, I think I could do this. Yes, okay. How did the subject come up? She moved down the street from me, and I said, you should really watch it. If I ever die, you're going to be second on their list.

Why would you say that? Angela is very violent. Are you paranoid that someone is going to murder you all the time? No, not all the time. Alright. And then what did you say, Angela? Angela replied summarily, nah. It's mostly a grunt

when I speak. No, I just said I could absolutely, you know, I find that when, I could absolutely murder him and get away with it. And I was like, no, I would totally get away. If I was going to murder you, you know, I find that when, I could absolutely murder him and get away with it. And I was like, no, I would totally get away. If I was going to murder you, you would be dead and no one would know that I killed you. Like, if I was. And how long ago was this conversation?

It was like three years. About three years ago. I would like to clarify that Angela certainly could kill me. I don't doubt that. I just don't think she would get away with it. Do you have murder in your heart? No. It's in her eyes.

So this is. Hold on. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not a physician, sir. I happen to know that it's in her kiss. That's where it is. Strike that from the record. You have come up with schemes by which you would prove your assertion? Yes. What is one of, how many schemes would you say you've come up with?

So I had several, but there's one that I kind of committed to for the sake of this. Murder? For the sake of murder. There was one, so obviously for those. Tell me one that you abandoned because you realized you might get caught in that. And then tell me your perfect crime. Okay, so definitely our disparate sizes. I'm not going to want to deal with the body.

Angela's much taller than me for those listening at home. People listening at home... Chad's about 6'5". Right. About 6'5". Yeah, and I'm 4'11". He basically looks like the guy from The Hills Have Eyes. Yeah.

He looks like a murderer. Yeah. And you look like a murder victim. Not to be... No, that's okay. You're a petite young woman who helps guys put couches into the back of their vans in a parking lot late at night. Right?

But in fact, the opposite is true. And that is kind of the brilliance of your plan. Yeah, that's kind of part of it. Okay, so you're disparate in size. Go on. Yeah, so I'm not going to—I can't deal with a body, so it can't be like I stab you and then, you know, or I shoot you and then have to dispose of a body, and that's often where people get caught. After the murder?

I'll take your word for it. Please let Angela speak. Sorry. Thank you. This is not you guys having a coffee break at Internet Company talking about murder. Internet Company. This is a court of fake law. All right.

Go on. I apologize. That's quite all right. And so I'm not going to want to do it. How would you dispose of the body? That's not a part of my plan. So I'm not going to. I don't want to have to do it.

There is a fault there. I watch television. No. So I don't want to deal with the body. And the way I would do it, I'm going to go the poisoning route. The poisoning route? Mm-hmm. All right.

Poisoning route. What poison would you use? Ethyl. By the way, just a disclaimer to anyone listening in the audience. Real methods of murder may be discussed here. Don't murder anyone. Yeah. So we have almost all the same friends, basically, and we go out often in big groups. So my method would be, I'm obviously not going to buy a poison that is illegal, and I'm not going

to buy... So Red Bull, then? No, I would use, I think it's, I'm nervous now because in front of all these people. I'm ethyl alcohol. Are you really nervous or are you pretending to be nervous? Oh, I can barely say the name of the poison I would use. The vapors. And it's sold for cars. I'm sorry, denatured alcohol is what I would. Teenager alcohol?

Denatured alcohol. Oh, denatured alcohol is what I would... Teenager alcohol? Denatured alcohol. Oh, denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol. Okay. It would take a significant amount to not like about a flask. To take down a six foot five? Yes.

So I've taken that into account. So it would just be... Like a Billy murderer? Yes. So that could be purchased. That could be purchased almost anywhere. Well, I don't have to say

where it can be purchased. It can be denatured alcohol. You have a poison in mind. How would you get it to him? It tastes similar to vodka, which is one of Chad's favorite drinks. She knows you inside and out, Chad. The effects of the denatured alcohol, when you're poisoned by it, it's similar to being drunk. So over the course of the evening, more and more, as Chad would grow more drunk, it would seem more drunk.

I have three roommates at the time that we had this discussion. Yes. So I know. So what? So he said, you know, we should probably get Chad home. Can you guys help me? And we would get him home. Right.

And if I thought that I hadn't snuck enough into his drinks over the course of the evening. You would bathe him in it? Yes. It would be easy to sneak a little bit more into a Gatorade bottle. Yes. And then have him drink it. And then die alone in his sleep. And then we all leave together.

And then it would be, it would kind of be, you know, everyone was there. It wouldn't be easy to pin it on me because there'd be big groups of people around us all the time. It could have been anyone. Do you have to register to buy denatured alcohol? Do you need any special? No. It's very inexpensive. Does anyone have an unopened water?

And there's no, and this is the plan that you abandoned? No, this is the good one. This is the good one. The one that I is the good one. This is the good one. The one that I... The good one. How does it make you feel when your friend describes poisoning you

and leaving you to die alone in your bed? Let the record show... Put this thing at home. Let the record show that he shrugged his shoulders. It's fairly common. It's fairly common. It's fairly common?

Among your friends? She frequently discusses murdering her friends. Now, that sounds to me like a pretty good... Because my job here is not to judge whether or not she is capable of murder. Clearly, she is. But whether or not her murder plan is foolproof. And what holes can you poke in that plan, sir?

Well, she did just say that on a nationally downloadable podcast. Oh, but is that not her special plan? By saying it on a nationally, indeed, internationally broadcast podcast. That's true. Is she not inviting the police into her home to serve them a leg of lamb that she previously used to bludgeon you to death? I do wonder who would guess it would be. It would be double podcast Jeopardy. No one could try for the crime. That is genius.

If it happened just that way, who knows what despicable person out there might choose to take you out in the exact same way in order to frame her. But then she would have a defense because so many other people hurt her plan. Are you representing the defendant, Your Honor? I'm just saying we're all your friends. I do wonder, in terms of holes to poke in her plan, I do wonder how she would get that denatured alcohol into me. Because of your love of vodka, sir. I don't recall any time that Angela has ever bought a round at a bar. How?

Really? Really? That is the thing that makes you jazz and disgust? I am. No. I am. Look at the effrontery. Red in tooth and claw, all of you.

I have manners. All right. She's a very courteous murderer. Yes, I am. I have never heard someone describe how they were going to murder a friend in that way. Are you a psychopath? Would you mind if I gave you a little test?

Are you familiar with John Ronson's book, The Psychopath Test? No. Yes, it's well worth a... Really? This guy could not stop wooing. Angrily. And you can't give it up for John Ronson right now? Go.

Again. Again. Woo-hoo! Yeah. John Ronson is a really good writer and investigative journalist and contributor to This American Life, and he wrote a book about the psychopath test, which is based on Robert D. Hare's

psychopathy checklist revised, which is a checklist of traits that identify whether or not someone would fit the current definition of psychopathy, which has two parts to it. One, a social lack of empathy and be potential for criminality. So I'm just going to ask Chad whether or not factor one, the antisocial aspect, the aggressive narcissism, does Angela display glibness or superficial charm? Check. Yes. Don't answer.

I got that one. Does she display a grandiose sense of self-worth? Is she a pathological liar? No, not generally. Is she cunning or manipulative? Yes. I would, yeah. Lack of remorse or guilt?

No, absolutely not. Okay. Shallow affect, genuine emotion, is short-lived and egocentric? No, unfortunately not. This would be great proof for me. Would you describe yourself as having a lack of empathy, sir? No. That was very calculated,

that answer I gave. And would that be part of your pathological lying, what you just said? This is all a ruse to distract you from my murdering her. It is.

It's circles within circles, I'm afraid. Thank you. This is, yes. It from my murdering her. It is. It's circles within circles, I'm afraid. This is, yes. All right, I do not think that you are a psychopath. I do not think that you are capable of murder. But the question is whether you would get away with it at this point. I think I know everything I need to make my decision. I am going to go back into my highly secured chambers. And I'll return in a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. You know, this isn't normal, right, Chad and Angela? This is not what friends talk about? I feel like it's not that far beyond the pale. I mean, like, it's like other things you talk about with your friends. It's like if a game of witchcraft just devolved into... Kidnapping, money laundering, and then occasionally murder. Arson,

the guy who yells a lot says. Chad, sincerely, if she describes to you the means of your death, does that... I mean, does that ever work out for a Bond villain? Angela, this is pretty good i'm not gonna lie that was pretty good i can see why you want to murder him

thank you angela if you're just hanging out with... There's only... How many people are we talking about in this hangout? Six? Three. Yeah. So they just ask everyone, have you bought any denatured alcohol recently? You crack under the pressure?

No, I actually thought of that. It would be... This is so messed up. I would go somewhere... Yeah, it is. No, I would be... This is so messed up. I would go someplace... Yeah, it is! No, I would go... You emailed us! No, I would do it.

I would do... You gotta... Here's what I thought. I looked about how a lot of people did not get away with murdering people, and they were just impatient. You just need to be patient about it. Yeah, if you wait long enough, I'll die.

You could just Weeping Angels me, and I would die. When you say that you're going to poison him with illegal poison, do you just mean that you're going to offer him cigarettes and wait until he dies of lung cancer? No, you would just buy it. I would just buy it someplace I don't go often.

I would use cash. You seem confident. Do you think the ruling is going to come out in your favor? No, I don't know. Chad, how are you feeling? I mean, I feel like I have the rule of law on my side. And common sense.

So I feel pretty confident. Plus you've got those night court residuals. Yeah, yeah. I'm li living easy. Yeah. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Thank you.

You may be seated. When I was thinking about what my judgment should be, I was only able to jot down one line, which is, please don't threaten your friends with murder. I don't believe either of you are true psychopaths based on the psychopath test, but there is an alarming glibness, which I think goes beyond even your obvious decision to say whatever it takes to get onto

a podcast. I agree with Bailiff Jesse that this is an unusual bar bet to make, bet to make, particularly when someone describes it in such thoughtful detail. May I ask, do you have a secret room in your house that is plastered with weird pictures of Chad with his eyes scratched out? No. No. But that's what I would say. Yeah. I would say take care before you go further down this particular line.

Because the fact that you are saying in great detail how you are going to kill your friend, and your friend just responds by shrugging, makes me worry that he's going to kill someone. That he seems to express no emotion whatsoever about the prospect of his own death, I think suggests to me that he thinks that if he does enough crimes, he is going to transform into some kind of red dragon god. Is that not true, Your Honor? What's that?

Excuse me? Is that not true, Your Honor? I'm going to say it's not true until I can get out of here as quickly as possible. In terms of whether or not your plan is a good one, I'm loathe to describe it as good. There is something insidious to what you have proposed. And indeed, I think especially now that you have aired your plan over the internet, that you have basically made your friend a marked man which i think is almost the most insidious perfect murder that i've ever heard of

so what i would like you to say now is uh these words please look into any of the cameras here okay say hello internet hello internet it's me angela it's me angela head of your murder any of the cameras here. Okay. Say hello, internet. Hello, internet. It's me, Angela. It's me, Angela. Head of your murder cult club. Head of your murder cult club.

Head of your murder cult club. Head of your murder cult club. I am ordering you now to forget everything that I said. I am ordering you now to forget everything that I said. I am ordering you now to forget everything that I've said. Chad must be kept safe at all times. Chad must be kept safe at all times. He is my prey and mine alone. He is my prey

and my prey only. And I am capable of committing murder without being caught. And I am capable of committing murder without being caught. And I am capable of committing murder without being caught. Watch how I make this judge dance for me. Watch how I make this judge dance for me. I find in favor of Angela the murderess, this is the sound of a gavel.

Judge Sean Hodgin rules. Please have this woman taken away. The most terrifying case I've ever heard. Chad, did that verdict make your blood run cold? A little bit. I must say I was surprised, but it's good to get some clarification from a more sane third party.

I'm just concerned that there is no one who will miss you, sir. See, that's the flaw in our plan, is I will miss him. How about a hug, you guys? You're the nicest murderer. She's going to murder me if she hugs me. You're the nicest murderer since Dexter. You're kind of a murderer hero, just like Dexter.

You're kind of a murderer hero, just like Dexter. Chad, Angela, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Halloween, everyone, Halloween. Spooky. If only there was something we could do to cleanse the taste of murder from our tongues. I'm going to have a drink from this bottle of water that's been opened. And I'm going to reintroduce our musical guest.

She's got a brand new record coming out later this year called Gotham Down. Please welcome back to the stage, Jean Grey. Jean Grey, yeah, yeah, yeah. Since we've been sitting in the green room, and I want to say I'm very thankful to have a bunch of really nerdy friends, and I'm not excluding myself from that shit. But we were back there, and I think, I was like,

is the show making everyone feel, like, really comfortable and at home? My manager randomly said curmudgeon-y, and we're in the fucking right there, and she's like, oh, he's just incorrigible. And I was like, what? Absolutely. It is. So this is what happens.

They're like, what kind of rap guest is this? This is weird. This is a song from, there's two albums coming out this year. One of them is called Gotham Down and the second one is called Keg of Death. And this one is called Gotham Down. And the second one is called Cake of Death. And this one is from

Very nice. This one is from Cake of Death and it's called This Morning. And the idea of this song is finding the bravery in yourself to get out of your own way.

And realize that you are your own superhero. There's not anyone else coming to save you, no matter who it is. And it's really hard to do, but you can do one thing at a time and start with a small thing, you know, and tomorrow morning be full on your way to fulfilling your destiny of who you're supposed to be, because you're supposed to be fucking great. Be full on your way to fulfilling your destiny of who you're supposed to be, because you're supposed to be fucking great. So we're going to take it real smooth and easy, and then we're going to kick the monitors over and break the windows. The dawn hits like a switch flicked off Clicked it this morning, it's different Can't fall, still switching positions and been yawned

Can't fall, itchy triggers egging me on So get up, cause the world is waking You can't slumber and sleep when the pearly gates open And you're tumbling, feet on the floor Stumbling, detour around the decor Fumbling, reach for keys, y'all, the peace, y'all Streets call me Not for slinging the stuff

That makes police hold me off Get cuffed up in the beast And roughed up Ain't ringing for jeans Sorry Call me to rate more beats And reap glory So I keep keep keep on

It's my story I woke up and the sun was shining Calling saying you gon' make it Been grinding hustling Know it's gonna change I feel I decided that I I'm gonna

change my life Never gonna be the same no more because this morning I decided I I'm gonna change my life. That was nice. Let's try that again. Turn her up a little bit if you can. And turn that up a little bit if you can too. Well good evening morning, the dawn hits like a switch flicked on.

Click that this morning is different. Can't fall, still switching positions in bignon. Can't fall, itchy triggers egging me on. So get up, cause the world is waking. You can't slumber in. Sleep when the pearly gates open and you're tumbling. Feet on the floor, stumbling deep. Tall ground and decor fumbling.

Reach for keys, door to peace, y'all. Streets call me, not for slanging the stuff that makes police haul me off. Get roughed up in the beast and cuffed up, ain't ringing for Gene, sorry. Call me to rate more beats and reap glory. So I keep, keep, keep on, it's my story. I don't know when the sun will shine and call and say, and you gon' make it. Been grinding, hustling, know it's gonna change. That's nice, that's nice. No I'm not. Because this morning I decided I, I'm gonna change the light. Hey, the employee of the year.

Picture frame with my name at the bottom, grinning ear to ear. Singing in, in, in, in. About to get promoted to the manager. A lot of hard work and diligence planned here. Get canned, I can't hear. You fill in the blanks, do it like Sonny Ann. I see the light, I'll be a fool to leave it shining there. So every night I'm improving up on the lines for me.

I'm finding the fear, shutting it down, timing as clear as here. So yeah, I'll stop fucking around cause fear can do shit like make you bang two-fifths to the head. To drown tears, then you can't do shit. And I ain't gonna fold or hand the boots yet. I woke up and the sun was shining Calling saying you gon' make it Been grinding hustling know it's gonna change I feel Because this morning I decided I

I'm gon' change my life We're gonna do the clapping again because I really like you guys on that. So come on. Keep it going. Come on. This morning, you gon' make it. Big round hustle, y'all. Oh, I decided I, I'm gon' change my life. Church, be like church. Come on, come on. Never gonna be the same no more.

Never gonna be the same no more Because this morning I Decided I I'm gonna change my life I won't go Y'all Been grinding hearts and y'all And I I decided I I'm gonna change my life

Singing, Mila. Oh, never gonna be the same Cause I decided I, I'm gonna change my life Deploy the psychotic lube! Gene Gray, Mella Machinko, DJ Mr. Len. The album's called Gotham Down, coming soon. Special thanks to the Green Space, to our producers, Nick White and Julia Smith. This is Judge John Hodgman.

I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Got anything else to say, John? That is all. Thank you.