Judge John Hodgman - All Dogs Go to Trial

Episode Date: February 20, 2013

Coming to you live and direct from SF Sketchfest! Brianne, Zach and their dog Shilo go to trial. Plus a musical performance from John Darnielle of The Mountain Goats and live snap judgments!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week's episode was recorded live at the Marines Memorial Theater in San Francisco as part of SF Sketch Fest. We'll hear a dog on trial, live snap judgment, and our pal John Darnielle from the band the Mountain Goats, who flew all the way out from North Carolina to perform a special musical set. Tonight's case, all dogs go to trial. Zach brings the case against his girlfriend, Breanne. Breanne is a dog trainer and the owner of a small poodle mix named Shiloh. She's training the dog with basic skills

so that she might become a service dog one day and brings the dog everywhere, on public transportation, to her college classes, to the drugstore. Zach says that Breanne is using the dog as a social crutch and might be offending members of the public who aren't dog lovers. Who is right and who is wrong?

Only one man can decide. Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Thank you. Thank you. Jesse, what are you doing? Jesse, what are you doing? Thank you. You may be seated now.

I'll tell you who wouldn't have messed that up. Colin Kaepernick. Cool under pressure. Thank you for the sports update, Jesse. I learned a lot. I know a fair amount about sports now

because until very recently I thought the world was going to end. So I felt it my duty to familiarize myself with certain of the sports. Part of my preparation for my death.

I put all of my affairs in order. I shredded all my money. And then I went to the cheesecake factory. I had the shrimp bistro pasta, which, as you know, a science organization ranked that as the most caloric entree you could order. I think it's, what, 3,120 calories. That is if you don't order double shrimp, which I did.

This is only 35 cents extra. And I had the coins because I had shredded all my paper money. And then I went to Seattle and fulfilled my lifelong dream of sabotaging a bunch of Dreamliners. You okay over there, Jesse? Hanging in. I know he had a concussion. I can go back out there.

And then I... I'm a very efficient quarterback. And then I wrote my final romantic email to Montiteo. And then I just wrapped it up and I just lay down in my bed and prepared to die on December 21st. But it didn't happen and so justice must go on. And so normally I would start these proceedings

with a kind of a glib pop culture reference, a quote from a movie, or maybe I'd sing a song of some kind that had something to do with the case, but it's part of the new me since I didn't die, fortunately. And unfortunately, neither did you. I have to come up with new things. So this is kind of a big deal for me. I actually wrote, I'm writing songs now.

And I wrote a song, and I'm going to sing it for you. This is a new song that I wrote myself. Wow. I like big butts and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face. You get sprung and you want to pull up tough. You notice that that butt was stuffed deep in the jeans she's wearing. I'm hooked

and I can't stop staring. I'm tired of magazines saying flat butts are the thing. Ask your average Glee fan. Take your average Glee fan and ask him that She's got to pack much back So fellas Yeah

Fellas Yeah Has your girlfriend got the butt? Tell her to shake it Shake it Shake that healthy butt Baby got bad Shake it, shake that healthy butt. Baby got back.

Baby got back. Booty, booty, booty, booty. Boo, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Skitty do da be dee da da ba dee ba. Well, hi, Jonathan. It's Jonathan Coulton. Jonathan Galton I think you should be glad for the exposure frankly

oh look there are litigants here. Jesse, won't you swear them in, please? Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the only service animal he's ever owned was a puma, whose custody he shared with early 1980s Kelsey Grammer. I do.

I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Kelsey was only supposed to have every other weekend. But he would keep that puma and I would like to have to come over there. Sometimes I had to get the police involved. He was very possessive of the puma. So your names are Breanne and Zach? Yes. You are Breanne, I presume? I am Breanne. And that leaves you, Zach. Correct. And this is you, Zach. Correct.

And this is a dispute over a dog. It is. First of all, what is your relationship? Boyfriend, girlfriend. Boyfriend, girlfriend, I see, very good. How long? How long have you been boyfriend, girlfriend? About three years now. About three years, that's quite a long time.

And so does this dog belong to you, Brianne, or you guys together? To me, officially, yes. And how old is this dog belong to you, Brianne, or you guys together? To me, officially, yes. And how old is this dog? About three and a half. Three and a half. So this dog predates your relationship? No.

I got her as an adult dog. Oh, I see. How long have you had the dog? Two years. Okay. Two years. All right. And how long have you been an adult dog?

Longer than you'd think. And the dog's name is Shiloh? Yes. And is it a male or a female dog? Female. It came with a name. So a bitch? It is a bitch.

It's not often that I get to say that. I don't get to say bad words a whole lot, so I'm always looking for opportunities. So tell me about your bitch. She's lovely. She's a very soft-spoken dog, very quiet, loves Breanne to death. What do you mean soft-spoken dog? Does your dog speak English? If it spoke English, it would be soft-spoken. So Shiloh is a what kind of dog? A poodle something?

A poodle, et cetera. A poodle, et cetera. Poodle plus. And you are a dog trainer by profession? I'm working on it, yes. You're working on it. Yes. I see.

And the point of contention here is that you take the dog with you everywhere like a crazy dog lady? Correct. What are we talking about, Zach? Where do we take this dog? Let's see, the BART to CLASS, which is a recent occurrence. You have CLASS on the BART? I take BART to CLASS. You take dog, you give dog training lessons on the BART? I should explain, I'm from the Bay Area. BART stands for Bay Area Rapid Transit. Oh, okay. And class is a place you go to as long as your parents are willing to continue to pay for it. I'll make a note of that.

So you take the dog on the BART. Is that legal? It is if she's a service dog or a service dog in training. And is she a service dog or a service dog in training? She's in training. She is in training by whom? By you? By me. But you are an apprentice.

I am. You are but a student. Who is your master? Are you going to an accredited service dog training course currently? No. No course of marriage assistance. Is it just something maybe you're just learning

at Phoenix University online? You watching some YouTube videos of funny dogs? I could do that. She's just reading the Zippy the Pinhead strip where Zippy talks to the doggy diner head.

What is going on in your life? What's going on in my life is I am... Don't answer that whole question. Well, right now I'm a barista. Specifically pertaining to this dog. Pertaining to the dog. What is your career now?

Do you have... Well, my career, for fear of buzz marketing, my career. Right. You live in San Francisco. You don't have a career. I'm sorry. Right. You live in San Francisco.

You don't have a career. I recently quit my job to pursue my own... Your own joy. Trust fund. My own bliss, really. To pursue your trust fund bliss. So your previous job had been... I had worked in the pet care industry. In the pet care industry?

Yes. What are we talking about? In various capacities. I worked as a nutrition expert, as well as a... You opened the can. Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this.

All right, wait. What is he eating? Is it dog food? Because that's my recommendation. Don't feed the dog corn, though. We'll get to you, Zach. So you worked in the pet care industry. I did.

Did you work at a pet store? I worked in a pet store. All right. It's very, very enigmatic, I know. Okay. And then, well, it's only because you're being cagey and weird. These are simple questions anyone could answer. But I understand. So then you decided one day, I'm tired of slinging kibble and calling myself a nutritional expert. I'm going to give

back to the world and I'm going to train service dogs. And on that day you quit and you enrolled in a program online. I did not. No. I quit. I have been a student for almost three years now. And so I've been doing this on the side. Too long? I'm a student. Okay. A student of what? I'm getting my BS in environmental studies. That is BS. Judge John Hodgman, ladies and gentlemen.

Order. No, that's a real thing. So you're just training... I'm not a climate science denier. I believe that there is an environment. But you are training on the side to become a service dog trainer as a hobby? Or is that something you would like to do? As a means of income. like to do as a means of income who's paying you to train service dogs no one

so that environmental science money isn't enough for you huh all those all that big you know payola you get in the industry, I know. Zach, I'm gonna... From Big Tree. All right, you two. Zach, hello. Hello. How are you? I'm very well. Why is Brianne lying? Or let's say not telling the whole truth.

Sometimes the rules don't always apply to Brianne, in my opinion. Ooh. Yeah. But she's very lovely. I agree, and there may be a potential new boyfriend in the audience. So... What else did you want to say about your girlfriend on stage? She's great.

Well, no. When you say the rules don't apply to her, what do you mean exactly? You're here now. Yeah. The train has left the station, Zach. And while we're all very excited to be here on stage at Marines Memorial Theater, this is also being recorded for a podcast, so eventually you will have to speak. She does train dogs.

I don't think that it's necessarily for service dog training, but she does train dogs. She is getting paid by certain clients to be walked, to be trained, to, you know, all that kind of stuff. So she's being paid by clients. She has clients who own dogs who they entrust in her to, you know, walk and provide training for. Right. Look, I know what a dog walker is. Is that what you are, Brianne, a dog walker? If I may clear it up. Please. May I? Okay.

We only have 17 hours here. I do walk dogs, I also train dogs. The only dog I'm currently training in a service capacity is my own. What qualifications do you have to train a service dog? None. But none... No, that's fine. Next.

Because training a service dog is a real thing. It is, but depending on the kind of training you're doing, it may or may not require certain certifications. What are you basing this on? Research. Research where? On the Internet? On the Internet.

Please tell me the Internet. On the Internet. Where tell me the internet. On the internet. Where else? What kind of... Alright, let's see if we can agree to some basic terms. For a service dog to be a service dog, it needs to be trained to provide a service to someone who has a disability. That is according to the Department of Justice. I looked that up on the internet. In order for a service dog to not be simply a comfort or companion animal, a service animal

has to be trained to provide a specific function that is going to help someone who cannot otherwise help themselves in that way. So a seeing eye dog, obviously, helps unsighted people from walking into the middle of the street all the time. There are seizure dogs that will, that if someone is having a seizure, what will the dog do? Like not laugh at them? I don't know why I said that. There's nothing funny about having a seizure at all. And dogs, like all animals, are incapable of laughter. That is what separates us from the animals.

Except for, I guess, some baboons. But a seizure dog or a seizure service dog will get help or help prevent, right? And you can jump in at any time because you're the one. There are a lot of types of dogs. I got all this on the internet about 45 minutes ago. And right now, I think I should be training service dogs. If you want, you can come over to my house, and we can both look at my hero dogs calendar and give you some ideas. So many hero dogs.

12, I guess, specifically. There can be only 12 at any given time. And on December 31st, there is a fight. A dog fight. Be careful, guys. You're all heroes.

To train this service dog, it would seem to me that you would need to have some qualifications. Why do you not have to have any qualifications? It depends on what kind of service dog you're training. As you mentioned, there are several different kinds. So? And in the municipalities of San Francisco and Alameda counties.

Oh, now you're talking very legal. Yeah. Sorry, Contra Costa, suck on this one. They have maintained much broader language in terms of what a service animal can be. It can still be a comfort animal or an emotional support animal is the term. So when you say that you're training this dog to be a service dog, you just mean you're training it to be a nice dog? She's training it to kind of not be so much of a bitch all the time. Can you at least teach it to open doors? You know, they go...

Not this dog. All right. I'm not sure that I can judge this case without seeing this dog for myself. Is the dog here? She is. Can you call Shiloh to the court, please, as a material witness?

As a material non-human... Oh. Oh. The court notes that the dog is wearing a Rush t-shirt. And is that to mark the dog as a service dog, like a special vest? Is that to mark the dog as a service dog, like a special vest? Or just, does that express the dog's support of Rush and the theories of Ayn Rand? Yes, absolutely. You all know that, right?

Rush is a big Ayn Rand band. They also have a cool song about a war where one of the sides of the war is the trees. So welcome, Shiloh. We don't need to swear Shiloh in because all animals are truthful. What services are you training Shiloh to provide? Specifically, she- No, generally. My vision for her-

Vaguely, how about vaguely? You're good at that. Yeah, generally. My vision for her... Vaguely. How about vaguely? You're good at that. Yeah. My vision for Shiloh in her training is to get her to be an emotional support animal. And a large part of that is desensitizing her to the world, be it cars passing by... Does she have to wear a special hood, like a falcon? That's not a bad idea. Oh, so desensitizing her, making her comfortable in hectic situations like like live podcasts.

And yes. And then as soon as she is trained to be a emotional support animal, you're going to give her to someone in need? Or are you training her to emotionally support you? Frankly? All right, thank you. I'm going to ask Zach some questions. Zach, why don't you emotionally support Breanne? I do. I love that she gets happiness from her dog,

that she's training to be a service dog, that she will never give to somebody. But let me be Zach's advocate here. Thank you. She's not training the dog to be a service animal for anyone but herself, it would seem. Is that true or not true to your understanding? That's true.

Is that true or not true to your understanding, Brianne? It's immaterial what she ends up being. I don't know whether I'm confronting a particularly obstinate person or all of California. person or all of California? You stand by, please. Both of you are adorable. Thank you. Your complaint is that she takes this dog to too many places? That is correct, yeah. Bart. Your complaint is that she takes this dog to too many places? That is correct, yeah.

Bart? Bart, supermarket, restaurants sometimes. And do you think that she is cooking up this service dog story in order to get the dog into places where dogs would not otherwise be allowed? I do. It's a new argument of hers. How new is this argument? Past like four or five months. pretty much since we moved here four or five months and you've had the dog for how long two years for two years did you previously live somewhere where a service dog could only be a service dog if it could open a doorknob with its mouth like that. Yeah, L.A., so.

Say again? We were in L.A. You were in L.A.? Mm-hmm. And you can't get away with that kind of mischief, this kind of service dog mischief down there, right? There's nowhere really to go in L.A., so you wouldn't really take your dog anywhere. He knows what I'm talking about.

He stayed home a lot. So why is Breanne, in your opinion, coming up with this phony, bogus argument to get her dog into places where dogs are not allowed? I think she likes to have her dog with her. It makes her happy, and I understand that. I'm not opposed to making her happy. I just think that there should be a limit. Don't take your dog to class. You draw a line somewhere. Don't take your dog to class. I think it's distracting. It's rude. Are you in the class?

No. Have you heard reports of discontent? No, not necessarily. How do people, when you guys go out together and she's bringing her dog into restaurants and stuff, may I presume that people react with utter disgust? One place allowed her, one place told her, you can't bring that dog in here. And what did she say? It's a service dog?

No, she turned around and walked out. May I? Am I allowed to speak again? Sure. Okay. Only one time have I ever attempted to bring her into an eating establishment, because personally, I don't particularly care to bring my dog

into eating establishments for any reason. But this was more of a cafeteria-type atmosphere, so it was a little unclear as to the rules. And you needed some emotional comfort? I did. There were a lot of options. You didn't know if you could handle the cafeteria. It's not necessarily unclear, you just don't bring your dog into an eating establishment.

And that's why I don't. I don't. To be fair, she is a dog nutritionist. The reaction, though, whether I'm walking with her on the street, whether I'm on the Muni or the BART, whether I'm in class, is overwhelmingly positive. She is a celebrity wherever she goes. People get really excited about how well-behaved she is and wonder what kind of dog she is and want to pet her and want to say hi.

That's my life with her, is people just swarming her for attention because everyone universally loves my dog. They basically break out in applause slash hives if they're allergic to dogs, which many people are. She is hypoallergenic. Yeah, but you know what? All dogs are cute. All dogs are cute. Only some dogs are heroes.

Twelve dogs. I think Bailiff Jesse raises a good point. All dogs are adored by all people, or so all dog owners think. Thank you. But almost all dog owners have to abide by certain rules that civilization has put forward to limit some areas to humans only. Now, you may consider that to be dog racist. But you seem to be finagling rules to your benefit. Why should you benefit disproportionately compared to other dog owners? Is your dog special?

She really is. She really, really is special. Because she has taken very well to the training I've been giving her, to bringing her into the public. Describe a situation very quickly where you went into a place and they say you cannot bring that dog into the cockpit of this plane or whatever.

And you said, I'm sorry, Captain, but this is a service dog. And they were like, okay. I have only ever once been turned away anywhere with her. I'm sorry, twice. That's a lie. Twice. What were the two places?

Zach, quick. CVS and Ars Mendi Pizza. Wow. Two quick buzz markets right there. You were turned away, and did you use your service dog? I didn't. I didn't want the hassle. It wasn't worth it in the moment.

Right, because no one's ever going to believe you. I didn't want the hassle. It wasn't worth it in the moment. Right, because no one's ever going to believe you. I mean, have you ever used that excuse? Not excuse, but have you ever used that argument successfully to get your dog into, you know, backstage at the Oscars or whatever it is that you want to... Presidential motorcade.

Yeah, exactly. Generally, the most common experience particularly on public transit is I will approach a vestibule or go to get on a bus and the driver will look at me and say that's a service dog right sure is come on board oh yeah that's just a wink wink between you and the bus driver that is the most resistance I ever get from any official. Right, they're offering you the out. Okay.

The bus driver might as well be saying, you're a pretty girl with a dog, right? Come on. I'd like to see Zach try that. Well, the female bus drivers. That's true. You never know. Zach's a handsome fella.

Zach. Yeah? No one seems to mind this dog thing but you. What possible reason would I order her to leave this dog at home? I'm not saying leave her at home. Just draw a line somewhere. Well, what are you saying? What do you want me to order?

I would like her to... Tie the dog to the bed. What do you want me to order? I would like her to... Tie the dog to the bed. Don't take her any places where people are forced to either keep their mouth shut, where they don't like having dogs around, or they're either allergic or it's distracting or something. Just keep it simple.

What places specifically? In your regular lives. Specifically class. Class is the one that bothers me the most. This is her BS class? Yes. To me, I think it can be distracting to other students. There could be other students.

Like you said, not everybody loves dogs and finds them to be so cute and attractive. But some can be allergic to them, find them disgusting and filthy. Who's this girl in my class with a dog? but some can be allergic to them, find them disgusting and filthy, and get that, who's this girl in my class with a dog? Why are you putting all of these feelings onto these fictional people in this BS class? They exist. Some dogs might get upset when,

some people might get upset when a dog jumps up on the bed. Yeah. When you're in the bed with your girlfriend. Her brother-in-law is a perfect example. So you're asking me to ban the dog from class? And Bart. And that last part is just out of spite, is that right?

Is the dog still allowed on Muni? What about Muni Light Rail? Because Muni's not on the eSpace. She'd have to take Bart to to get to Me and Me. Has that dog ever taken a San Francisco cable car? She has not. I have never taken a San Francisco cable car. All right.

Go ahead. You want to say something? You may make a final statement. For me, the one place where I would request to be allowed to bring her is school, whereas it's the place where I unilaterally get tons of positive responses, and that's the place where I spend the most of my time. Is this about the dog or you? It's about us, really, I think. And not him? Thank you, yeah. I'm just jealous, that's all. Thank you, yeah.

I'm just jealous, that's all. Does the class have a specific no dogs policy? No. Does the campus have a specific no dogs policy? And you're sure of that? There are many, many dogs on the campus of San Francisco State. Okay. Does this dog do any good tricks?

You know, she really doesn't. Really? It's funny, she's been in training for a while. She had a long road to recovery. She's, we're working on it. All right. And you are training her to be desensitized to the world? Yes.

Couldn't you just play her, like, Radiohead albums and give her a Vicodin? Let's see. My dog already can't speak. I would also like to not be able to hear or smell or have opinions and just go with me to class and do whatever I want, unlike Zach. Bring the dog here, please.

We'll see how desensitized this dog is. Right here. Hi, sweetie. Let the dog smell you. Shiloh, come here. Shiloh, come here. Let the record reflect that the dog is a really adorable dog. Oh, he gave it a kiss. Okay, I think I have heard everything I need to hear.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom. You may be seated. Wow, Zach. What's going on with you three? You know, I love that dog. I just think there needs to be a line. Just certain places. We take her places all the time,

but I think she's not socially awkward enough to have to bring a dog with her to class where she's fine. Can I ask you a question? You don't have to answer this, but with regard to this line, in the places, intimate places? Brianne, how are you feeling? That's a really cute dog, by the way. Holy cow. Thank you. Can I pet the dog?

Yes, you may. Yes, you may. See, that's part of the training. You want her to accept attention, but not solicit it. That's what this is right here. That's training. That's a nice doggy. I wish you all could fit this dog.

May the rest of your night be a disappointment because you haven't. Brianne, how are you feeling about your chances in the case? I never felt good about my chances in the case, honestly. Is that because it's kind of a cockamamie case? You could say that. Zach, how about you? How are you feeling? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm being painted as a monster. Because, I mean, look at that dog.

It's an adorable dog. I get it. Well, guys, only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. You may sit down. Brienne, human monster. human monster. Or inhuman monster, perhaps.

I'm getting quite a bit of thought. You know, it's a highly charged issue because in most places in the world that are not San Francisco, where people have standards and words have meaning. A service dog means a very specific thing and exceptions are made for service dogs for a very specific purpose, which is to aid people who need the help of a service dog to live and function normally and keep them safe and out of harm's way. And I had one experience where someone I knew came to New York for a period of time with his dog.

And I said, well, how did the dog handle flying, you know, in the, in the cargo area of the plane, the Dreamliner that I sabotaged. And he said, oh, no, no, no, no. He rode, he rode with me. We'll call the dog Buddy. Buddy rode with me. Buddy was a French bulldog. And I'm like, how did you get your dog onto the plane? He said, oh, I had him registered as a service dog. And I said, what do you mean you had him registered? You are an able-bodied person. Do you need a service dog? He said, no.

I said, well, what are you talking about? He said he went to a website, which exists, where you can go. And it's kind of like going to a doctor for marijuana in California. I really need this marijuana doc. And you go to the website and you type in, I really need my dog to sit with me on the plane. And the website will print up, it's sort of like your weird online university where you're taking courses or whatever. They'll print up a certificate saying that your dog is a service dog, and they'll even

send you a little vest. And the vest says, I am not lying. All animals are truthful. Only my owner has put this on me and put me in the position to lie. And the most offensive thing about this whole thing, this is a friend of mine whom I liked a lot, and I'm like, that is terrible.

Because not only are you skirting the rules, but also it's dumb and ridiculous. Because it's dumb and ridiculous because it's a French bulldog. French bulldog is probably the only dog that needs a service dog. They have terrible respiratory problems. They can barely move because their legs are like little twigs that are attached to a giant summer sausage.

They're ridiculous. That's not, dog isn't going to help anyone out of a fire. It's not going to bring you a cask of martinis in the cold. God knows I tried. I thought that's why French bulldogs were put on earth. I tried, I thought that's why French bulldogs were put on earth. And the fact that there is an underground, gray market service dog certification racket going on

speaks to what a charged issue this is and speaks to how much people want to have their dogs with them at all time and are willing to deceive others and humiliate a dog to do it. So you can see that I am not amused by your little game. Now you, sir. I have to say, you're a monster. And I can only come to that conclusion because you barely made a case for yourself. You made very few compelling arguments as to why I should step in and deny Brienne and

her fellow classmates any happiness. The happiness that Shiloh provides. You gave no authentic evidence that anyone is bothered by this. And because there is no policy prohibiting dogs on campus, for me to deny her that pleasure would be as monstrous as you are every day. as monstrous as you are every day.

With regard to the BART, that is clearly a place where dogs are not allowed unless they are service dogs, and you are in a conspiracy with the bus drivers who have crushes on you in a way that I think is a little weird and unfair and creepy. Not creepy, it's lovely. So my ruling is a mixed ruling in the sense it has two parts. I will not ban you from taking the dog to class. I will strongly advise you to stop deceiving yourself and others with this service dog ruse,

because it would have no meaning in any other county but San Francisco. And it's a serious, and it's a serious, service dogs, they're a serious, serious thing. I'll tell you a story about that later. And then, but with regard to the BART, okay, this is a situation where you clearly have worked up some kind of relationship with these conductors. And I will say, you have to get to class, obviously, and the dog's got to come with you. I will allow you to bring the dog on BART

and to continue to do so, even using the service dog excuse. If Zach gets away with it one time? So you two have to go, and Zack has to be carrying the dog for all intents and purposes. It's got to be Zach's dog. Zach, what's your favorite band? Rush? Totally. Okay. Then you can keep the Rush t-shirt.

Did you think the Rush t-shirt was the girl's idea? Everything's upside down now. She did buy it for it. So that is, and if you get away with it one time, then you may continue to play this game, because then clearly Bart doesn't have any standards either. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. Brianne, I have to ask you, do you think Zach's going to get away with it? I think he's just as pretty, if not prettier, than I am. So I think, yes, he will get away with it. It's the dog.

She's the pretty one. Everybody loves that dog. The dog is clearly the only thing keeping you two together. I do wish you luck. We're all pretty here, guys. How do you feel about the ruling, Brianne? I'm really surprised at the ruling, and I'm very pleased that I don't have to give up my social crutch.

So, good. Yay. Zach, do you think you'll ever be able to share intimacy with your girlfriend again emotional intimacy the dog gets between them emotionally yeah we'll see about that we got like four or five years left in her so zach I love Shiloh. Don't die, Shiloh. Brianne, human monster, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

That dog. Good heavens. You know, Judge Hodgman, that was a tough case. Or you know how I would actually describe it? Adorable. A rough case. Order! Out of order! You are out of order, sir.

Let's clear the docket. Okay, you know what? Order! Out of order! You are out of order, sir. Let's clear the docket. Okay, you know what? I have a bunch of emails, but now that I look at it, a lot of these people's hometown seems to be in the San Francisco Bay Area. Oh, fantastic. They might even be here. Do you think any of them might be here?

Anybody? Yeah, we got a couple people here. All right. Well, let's just clear them live in person. Come on up. Hi, guys. Speak directly into the microphone. Identify yourselves. Hi, I'm Elizabeth. This is Melissa. Hi, Elizabeth and Melissa. I think we know you. Your voices sound familiar, or at least yours does, the one who's speaking. We've been on the show before. That's right. And what was your case regarding?

Was it a mechanical wind-up giraffe? No. No, sir. No? No. It was about getting off of an airplane. Ah. Ah, right? That's what I thought. I knew you did.

And did you win? I won. Right. And what was the, and remind me the particulars of the case. That the person sitting in the aisle on a flight should be able to decide when they want to get up and get off the plane. And the person in the window seat, e.g. Melissa. Just has to eat it. Has to get up and get off the plane. And the person in the window seat, e.g. Melissa, has to wait. Yeah. Right. Okay. And so I want, I ruled in your favor. Yes. All right. I take it back. No, no, you're still right. So very quickly, what is your new fight about? Our new fight is as follows. I currently live in Oregon. Melissa lives here in California, but we're

BFFs. And I recently procured a boyfriend. I have a... Did you go down to the canteen to pick one up? Went down and picked him up. I'm glad that gray market website worked out for you. So I have a gentleman in my life and I introduced him to some friends in Washington, closer to Oregon, before Melissa got the chance to meet him. And she's upset because she feels that the best friend should have the first right of contact with a new significant other. So she wanted you to keep the boyfriend secret from all your friends up there

until she had a chance to meet? Yes. I see. Or at least give her... Let it show for the record that the teller in this Penn and Teller Act nodded yes. We were instructed that I should speak. So she requests that she have screening access for potential future significant others of mine. She thinks that... She's hoping that this relationship fails so that you can do the right thing next time. Basically, she thinks that

there should be a tiered system, right? So that the closest friend to a person should have first access whenever possible to the significant other. I understand. Elizabeth, you are speaking now, Elizabeth, right? Yes, sir. And what is your friend's name again, please? Melissa. Melissa. Once again, Melissa, you are wrong. Judge John Hod right? Yes, sir. And what is your friend's name again, please? Melissa. Melissa. Once again, Melissa, you are wrong. Judge John Hodren will say so. Let her introduce her boyfriend. Come on up. Next case.

Oh, look at these guys. You know what? I did enjoy that case, but I would say to Penn that we're all pretty tired of hearing about his libertarianism and atheism. Not me.

Hello. What are your names, quickly? I'm Anastasia. I'm Paul. Hi, Paul. And what is the problem? Well, we've been together for about ten years, and when we first moved in with each other, Paul wanted to merge our record collections. And I did not.

Mostly, our record collections are still separate, and then we have a separate section for what we've purchased together. Yes. together. Yes. And I still don't want to merge them because I worked really hard on that collection before we were together. And it's kind of a part of my identity and I don't want someone coming in and thinking, Paul did all of this work. And besides, you just reorganized your records chronologically.

Paul, why do you want to do this? Because your records are terrible? She definitely has a good collection. I just think it's more practical, and I think separate records aren't equal records, so that's why I like it. Never before has there been a more appropriate time to invoke the legacy of Brown v. Board of Education. Congratulations, San Francisco! Let me ask you a simple question. How many Mountain Goats records do you have in your collection? All of them.

And how many Mountain Goats records does Paul have? Just Tallahassee, right? Just Tallahassee. I find in your favor, Anastasia. Well, speaking of the mountain goats. Yeah, that did strike a familiar chord in my mind. We happen to have John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats here.

Well, why don't we welcome to the stage. Ladies and gentlemen, John Darnielle. John Darnielle. Hi, we're the Mountain Goats. At this point, it's a reflexive thing I sort of have to say. This is a song about good faith. I became a crystal healer, and my ministry was to the sick creeping vines would send out runners and seek me in their numbers I sold self-help tapes. Go down to the netherworld. Plant grapes.

And as words spread of my powers, I would welcome them inside. I sewed clothes for them, cloaks and capes. Plant grapes