Judge John Hodgman - Antisocial Networking

Episode Date: July 4, 2012

Lauren brings this case against her friend work-spouse Mike. When is it rude to use your phone in the company of a friend? How much texting is too much? Only one man can decide!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, anti-social networking. Lauren brings the case against her friend Mike. She says Mike texts and emails regularly when they're commuting, having lunch, or generally being social, and that it's rude and distracts him from the conversation. Mike says using your phone in casual social situations is perfectly okay if you can multitask and par for the course with our generation. Who's right and who's rude? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

I think if Mike and Lauren want to sit on my shoulders and call themselves tall, they have the right to give it a try. But there's no requirement that I enjoy sitting here listening to people lie. You have part of my attention. You have the minimum amount. The rest of my attention is back in my chambers where Bailiff Jesse and I are doing things that no one in this room, including Mike and Lauren, are intellectually or creatively capable of doing. Which is to say we're in there shutting pie holes. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he will only use electronic technologies that he can manipulate with his hands in the air, sort of like Tom Cruise in Minority Report? I would expect nothing less. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Hello, Mike and Lauren. How are you?

Great. How are you? Good. Now, for an immediate summary judgment, can either one of you name the piece of culture that I was paraphrasing as I walked into the courtroom? It's actually killing me because I've seen it and I know it somewhere in my brain. All right, that's a no, Mike. No. Okay. Another summary judgment narrowly averted. It's not The Devil Wears Prada, is it?

No, it is The Social Network. Why would I say The Devil Wears Prada? That has nothing to do with what we're about to talk about which is over texting on social networks and also let me just say I feel a little sad about suggesting that Jesse and I were in chambers

shutting pie holes because that sounded gross I was trying to make a reference to Jesse Thorne's famous catchphrase shut your your piehole, which usually sounds gross, doubly so when it's imagined happening in private in chambers. Whatever it means, I apologize for it. Lauren and Mike, I'm going to start with you, Lauren. Well, who brought the case to me originally? I did.

Okay, Lauren, I will start with you. You are the plaintiff. You are the complainant. Lauren, I will start with you. You are the plaintiff. You are the complainant. Before I ask you what the nature of the case is, you refer to Mike several times in your initial brief as your work spouse. This is not a term that I'm aware of. What does it mean? It's the person at work that you go to when you are stressed out about something and need to vent. The person you most often talk to at work. The person who knows kind of more about your personal life, the person you go to to borrow Tylenol, the person you most often have lunch with and often bicker

with as well. Your best friend at work. Right. And the definition, it seems to include also that it tends to be somebody of the opposite sex and can often be people who are coupled otherwise. And do either of you have spouses? No. No. No. Okay. Because I'm just trying to determine whether or not this is going to turn into a delightful

rom-com or a tragic melodrama. Is there the possibility that you would ever be romantically attracted to one another? No. Okay. No. Okay. Good. Okay. Good. Let's keep it professional is what I say.

All right. And what is the problem? What is it that Mike, your Paniwani husband, does all the time at work that bothers you so much? The main problem that I would like to discuss is that of when we walk to the metro and take the metro home to D.C. together, which we do fairly often, or if we drive home together. And by home, you do not cohabitate?

We do not. You live in a similar neighborhood? Yes, in D.C. All right, go ahead. It starts as soon as we enter the stairwell that leads to the outside that leads to the metro. Mike will have his phone in his hand and be doing something on it during the walk to the platform, on the train, and the conversation will be somewhat chopped up because of that. And I have occasionally made sort of vague, oblique

remarks, somewhat half-joking, requesting that he stop. And they have not been effective, unsurprisingly. And it just feels like I can't have the most satisfying, fun conversation with him or serious because he's doing something on the phone and I don't know what he's doing. Is he texting? Is he tweeting? Is he looking up something on Wikipedia? It could be anything. But I feel like there's two separate interactions happening and I'm only part of one of them with very little percentage of his attention. Okay. I'm sorry. What did you say? I was just texting Bailiff Jesse. I was just seeing if Bailiff Jesse wanted to shut some pie holes in chambers later. if Jesse wanted to shut some pie holes in chambers later.

Mike, is this true? What are you doing when you are commuting with Lauren? I do use my phone a lot. I'm going to ask you some simple yes and no questions. I don't want you to defend yourself yet. I just want to get a picture of what's going on. The nexus of things you might be doing on the phone, are you texting friends? I could be, on the phone. Are you texting friends?

I could be, yes. Okay. Are you updating various social networks? That is also possible. Are you looking up... Professional and personal. Okay. I'm not judging. I'm just asking.

Okay. Are you looking up things on Wikipedia? No. Okay. Are you simply trying to pretend that Lauren doesn't exist? As much as I might like to do that, and that is a good idea, no. I don't pretend that she does not exist. So now that we have moved into the openly catty phase of the hearing, how would you

defend yourself against Lauren's accusation? And you have permission to treat your opponent cattily. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. Well, I work in marketing, communications, and media relations. So there is a large part of my job that requires me to be plugged in, whether it be to Facebook or my email at work. You understand that we do not buzz market social networks on this podcast. So would

you please use the generic social network that we used as a stand-in for those. Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage, hangoutspot.net. That is the official social network of the Judge John Hodgman podcast, and that is the only one that will buzz market moving forward. So can I paraphrase that as various social networks? You may. Okay, thank you. In any event, I am constantly connected to email and various social networks for my job, which definitely spills into my personal life. I am equally connected to my own social networks and my own personal email.

So it's just kind of like an occupational hazard. It is my feeling that in general, communication is becoming a lot more casual and that the same, I would say, I guess, rigid social constructs don't necessarily apply the same way that they used to. There is an expected immediacy to these various electronic forms of communication, which I buy into. I like to respond fast and be kind of quick on the uptake. What about quick responses in person? Excuse me, Lauren. Excuse me.

I'm listening to Mike right now. Sorry. Seriously. We're not on one of those trashy TV court shows, Lauren. Excuse me. I'm listening to Mike right now. Seriously. We're not on one of those trashy TV court shows, Lauren. This is a real fake courtroom. Because of technology, there's currently an expectation that we're working all the time. And because addictive centers in our brain, we feel that we have to live in that kind of world, even though it is a horrible way to live. But that's fine. If that's how you choose to live, that's fine.

I appreciate that. That's a choice that you're making. Lauren, you wanted to interject something there? You had an objection to make? I did want to interject. Overruled. Now, Mike, I wanted to ask you another question. Okay. Do you and Lauren work in the same do you and lauren work in the

same line of work you work in the same office but do you but do we work in the same office we are in different departments should lauren be checking her email social networks canadian house of pizza and garbage hangout spot.net all of the famous social networks that there are should she be doing this more yes or no should uh professionally should she be doing this more? Yes or no? Professionally, should she be doing what you are doing? In your opinion? No, it's not necessary for her job. In your opinion, does she even know how to do any of those things?

I would suspect most of them know. In fact, I'm not even completely sure that she knows what some of them are. Lauren, does this happen only when you guys are commuting or does it happen at work as well? It definitely happens at work. We'll be having lunch with a group of people and the phone will come out. And what was a delightful banter or intelligent discussion that included Mike will turn into a slightly sadder one because he is not only not present mentally, but visibly rejecting all of us by paying attention to his phone instead of to the people at the table.

So how does it make you feel when this happens? It makes me feel like something else more important is going on. It feels like we don't... I'm going to give you a multiple choice answer to make this a little easier for you. Fantastic. Does it feel like A, that you are unvalued as a friend? Yes. Right, well that's actually... Should I wait for the rest of the choices? No, that was going to be the only choice actually. Can I say all of the above?

I was going to say A, unvalued as a friend, and B and C are the same. So all of the above? All of the above. Does that bother you, Mike, that Lauren feels unvalued as a friend because you are constantly checking? Okay. Now, you gave me some – do you want to expound on that or do you have to send an email right now? No, my phone is actually put away. Thank you. Excuse me. I will have order. I am telling the truth.

Shut your pie holes! In chambers. The new Judge John Hodgman podcast after dark judge hodgman have you ever played that game where uh after you eat a chinese meal you get the fortune cookies and you read the fortune out loud and then add in chambers at the end exactly so you are you are a sensitive and intuitive judge in chambers. Lucky numbers, 22, 22, and 22. All right, Lauren, I value you as a friend, but you do have to shut your pie hole for a moment.

Mike, how does it make you feel when Lauren says that she is unvalued as a friend because you are constantly checking your electronic device? I feel badly about that. No, you do not. You feel bad, Mike. You feel bad. Oh, I'm sorry.

I feel bad. Yes, your capacity to feel bad. Oh, I'm sorry. I feel bad. Yes. Your capacity to feel, I think, does function. Has been numbed by social media. It may be that you do actually feel badly now that I think about it. It may be that you're gradually becoming a sociopath. I think it was a purposeful grammatical error, in fact, that conveyed a different meaning. Mike, you sent in some evidence. You both sent in some evidence, but I'm curious about... See, Lauren,

you have a picture of Mike here using his phone and then looking up from his phone, surprised that there's another human being in the world. There's an image of you guys raising shot glasses with Garth Brooks, apparently, in a kitchen. Are you friends with Garth Brooks? Who is this person

wearing the black cowboy hat? That person is Garth's co-worker's boyfriend. Then you have a picture of yourselves at a party together where everyone's face is covered by some kind of balloon. Did you

obscure everybody's faces? Who gave me this picture? Mike did. Mike, did you obscure everyone's faces? Who gave me this picture? Mike did. Mike, did you obscure everyone's faces in this photo? I did, and I actually never gave it to Lauren. I sent it directly to you, Judge. Okay, so Lauren, you don't know what I'm talking about. Well, I do, but only because I looked over his shoulder.

Right, the crazy balloon face party that you went to? Yes. Yes. Right. Now, Mike, since we crazy balloon face party that you went to? Yes. Yes. Right. Now, Mike, since we're talking about evidence that you gave, I was fascinated by your submission of evidence because you said the first proof, the first photo that you send is proof that Lauren and I worked together. And then in parentheses, you said, despite how much this development has come to aggravate me. Do you remember writing those words, sir? I did, and Lauren actually saw them herself.

And can you explain to me what you mean? Part of my friendship with Lauren is that we both aggravate each other and tease each other playfully and in fun. So that was just me being sarcastic and catty, as you put it. Very well. And then the next, I think that this carries over to the next photo.

You submitted a picture of Lauren holding up a communication device marketed by a computer company that I used to work for. I won't buzz market it, but you say, here is proof that Lauren too loves her device, one that you encouraged her to get in the hopes of making her look more professional. Does Lauren need to look more professional?

No, she doesn't. She operates with a painful amount of professionalism at all times. painful amount of professionalism at all times. Okay. And then the follow-up question I have is, does constant texting on the phone these days convey an air of professionalism that is required in the workplace? Depending on what you're doing on your phone, yes. I use my phone for my job. But you're using your phone consistently for your job or your own? Yes, I use my phone for my job. But you're using your phone consistently for your job or your own personal pleasure, not to convey an air to the world around you that you are important in some way. No. That your attention is required elsewhere, even when your own friend is talking to you. No, I don't think that I present myself that way. All right. And then you have a picture of Lauren doodling during a meeting and she's drawing a couple of girls with different hairstyles

in the bottom corner of this photo. And I think she should go with the one farthest to the right. What do you think? I don't know how he got that picture. Well, you may know that he owns a device. He owns a phone. Are you aware of this? I didn't realize it had a camera on it. You know what? Maybe I'm getting to be on my side here. See, exactly. She doesn't know how to use these things. Maybe, you know what? Maybe, Lauren,

you need to learn at least what the weapons that the enemy has. I thought it would make one of those snapping sounds like an old-fashioned camera, so I'd be alerted. She didn't even see me throw the dark black sheet over my head to take the picture. Mike, I am so mad at you now for getting there before me.

That's the exact joke I was going to make. Let the record show that the defendant beat the judge to the joke about putting the black drape over his body in order to take an old-timey photograph. So I at least have one win in this. Right. If not two. But Lauren, didn't you see him raising up the wooden container of gunpowder in order to make a flash? Yes. Let the record show that the judge came back.

The judge is back. But wait, I really must interject here and say that the only reason Mike was able to make that joke so speedily is because I myself talked about a black curtain going over someone's head in a meeting we had this morning where we were talking about bringing an old-fashioned photographer to a fundraiser. So that's the only reason Judge that he beat you to that. Or Lauren, I could have just dug into my memory banks and pulled that

out, which is exactly what happened. So I'm going to have to ask you to stop. You've been listening to another enjoyable segment of Work Spouses. Fun time bickering between some people who love, hate each other at work every day. So, Judge, if we may hand it back over to you.

Oh, yeah, you may. You know what? You may. I'll give you that permission. Lauren, when you are commuting on the Metro, is there reception for Mike's phone? Do you know? Well, and truth be told,

I do now have one of the more popular devices myself now. So, no, there is intermittent coverage on the Metro. So there are occasional times where he frantically checks for a new message but cannot get one because there's no coverage in that particular section of the tunnel. And how long is the connection? I think that's a mischaracterization. Frantic? Mike, Mike, is there reception on the Metro? There are when you pull into, or there is reception when you pull into stations.

How often do you, do you guys commute together? 50% of the time, 50% of the time. I would, I would say that, I would say 33% of the time I'm on the metro with Lauren. Okay. And then do you guys commute? Or metroing or driving, one or the other. And so sometimes you carpool together. Do I understand that correctly?

Yes. All right. And Mike, may I presume that you are texting while driving? Yeah. While also taking good timey photographs of the scenery? Yes. Of course. Did you actually just admit to texting while driving on a live podcast with me, Judge John Hodgman?

It was a joke. Okay, that was a joke. Oh my God, it was not. Lauren, he doesn't text while he drives, right? Lauren? I will remind you, you are under fake oath. Yes, he does. But I do too sometimes.

Oh, my God. But not when other people are watching. You're under fake oath. Fake oath. I only text while driving when I'm by myself. Look, I am not in a position to arrest you, only to warn you sternly to not do that. And now, what, Lauren, would you want to have happen in this? If I were to rule in your favor, what damages are you seeking?

I think this is a little bit challenging because, you know, if you were to rule what I would like you to rule, which is that, in fact, it is rude to be on your device while with another person. Unless you say, hold on just one second, I've got this one message. That's the exception. If you just have to say, hold on a second. But if you rule in my favor in that sense, I think it would be really hard for Mike. And I think he would, he would struggle to do it and he would kind of hate it. And so I'm, I'm not sure I need some, some judicial wisdom here and how to create some sort of injunction that he will be able to obey without the addictive centers in his brain exploding in misery for the 20 minutes that we are on the train together. Mike, what would happen if you did put away the phone while on the train for 20 minutes? I think that I would break down in tears.

No, I mean, I could put the phone away. I mean, though, our commute is 45 minutes at least. So I could put my phone away for 20 minutes of the commute. I could try and reduce my usage. But I don't think I use it as much as lauren is leading you to believe that i do and i think that i do it in a reasonably polite way i mean if i'm taking calls i excuse myself i only respond to work emails i don't check my own email unless i'm by myself um i don't like i don't think that i am taking advantage of these social outlets um as often as she is leading you to believe.

Oh, my goodness. Excuse me? I said, oh, my goodness. No, I heard what you said. I'm saying, excuse me, stop talking. Maybe I should put it that way. Do you disagree with his perception of reality, I take it? I do. what do you do you disagree with his perception of reality i take it i do can you have do you have any evidence to suggest that he's not telling the truth or are you just calling him a liar again

so i was not able to learn did not subpoena my cell phone record so she does not have any evidence that would have been very smart but i and i was not able to secure a text record like a screenshot or a photograph of him texting while on the train but I know that he texts the guy that he's seeing I know that he texts friends to confirm plans or just to chat I think some of it's idle chat and I just think it would be nice if he would be here's the thing I would love it if you could rule that Mike wanted to put the phone away and that you could rule that he has to prefer chatting with me to being on his phone. You guys really are.

You really do think of each other as spouses, don't you? Me too. It's not that I want you to do something. I just want you to want to do something. Right, exactly. Because it doesn't feel good if he's like, oh, fine, I'll listen to you talk. How much time do you guys spend together during the day at work? It is constant.

Constant. Would you agree, Lauren? Constant? Throughout the day, we visit each other's cubicles and chat briefly, and sometimes we have lunch together. So several, many times a day, yes. The interaction is continuous. we visit each other's cubicles and chat briefly and sometimes we have lunch together so several many times a day yes sometimes the interaction is continuous and mike my last question is this photo uh that you that you surreptitiously took of lauren uh drawing doodles on a pad this you want you this is to get her fired or what's what is the point of this photo no um it is to um illustrate

my point that that i think we all take liberties in different situations where we should be being more courteous than we are um and that i think that this is something that everybody widely does um it's just a matter as it relates to this case involving cell phone use, trying to be as respectful about it as possible. And while I admit to being guilty of not doing that all the time, I think that for the most part, I try to be courteous of others when I'm using my phone and use good judgment in when and what situations I use it. All right. I think I have everything I need to make my decision. Jesse, if you would please ask the defendant and complainant to shut their pie holes.

I will go into chambers and and start going on a Wikipedia tear that will last 45 minutes. Mike, Lauren, please shut your pie holes and rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. You may now open your pie holes. Lauren, how are you feeling about your chances in this case? I have to say this has not gone as smoothly as I had hoped, but I do think that the judge will come down in my favor. Why is that? I guess I have found on his many other rulings as pertain to close relationships that he has a very, he has a lovely, warm wisdom about him, about the best way friends should take care of each other. And I think that that will hold sway in this situation. Mike, why are you against friends taking care of each other?

Mike, why are you against friends taking care of each other? I'm only against that in situations like this where friends clearly, clearly are brown nosing. Clearly. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Well, I hope you friends have been taking care of one another while I was there in chambers, isolated and considering my decision. Mike, here's what I got to say to you. This is something that I just got to tell you. Don't text while driving.

I'm going to say the same thing to Lawrence and don't worry about it. That is a really, really bad thing to do for reasons that go without saying. And I understand the temptation. And indeed, the temptation is partly the problem. Now, doodling, okay? The evidence that you gave that Lauren is just as bad at you as some things, right? Doodling is a terrible example. Because there have been many studies that have come out that suggest that doodling actually enhances concentration, particularly when someone is paying attention

to something boring like whatever meeting Lauren was clearly in in that photograph. And you were there too, also doing something other than what you should be doing, which was taking a picture, I might add. Collecting evidence. Yeah, collecting evidence. I got you.

But doodling is a meditative creative act that alerts the brain and allows it to absorb more things. And this has been shown in studies. retained more of it while they were asked to shade in alternating grids on a piece of graph paper to imitate the psychological profile of doodling. And as I say, it is a positive meditative act that people have done for centuries. What you're doing without commenting on its essentialness to your business and personal life is not something that people have been doing for centuries. Indeed, it's a very, very new behavior. And when you think about it, it really goes back to I first discovered text messaging bizarrely when I was in Italy in 2004. It's in the advent of the smartphone and the pervasive smartphone starting around 2007 that we have had access to almost everyone in our lives 100% of the time.

You are absolutely correct, Mike, that from a business point of view, this has created a sense, an imperative indeed, to be available at all times. I personally find that to be ridiculous and loathsome and unprecedented in human history. But it is, in certain business situations, absolutely a necessity. But the activity, contrary to doodling, which is meditative and brain awakening, the activity of checking email and checking texts has been shown recently to rapidly and massively increase stress levels. And then obviously texting while driving is very dangerous intrinsically. And generally speaking, I think that this behavior makes us more twitchy and addictive and it hinders our concentration.

And if there's any proof of that, it's my inability to put a sentence together right now because I'm also currently ordering a pizza. Now, all of this I say as a warning to you, Mike, a warning, and only a warning. The taxi-mobile driving thing has to stop before someone gets hurt or someone gets arrested or someone gets a terrible, something bad happens, right? And then the other stuff, too, is just like, you know, you got to take it easy. You got to take it easy. What you think is business essential, it may or may not be business essential. What you think is personally pleasurable, I personally think is actually making people

more anxious and less happy. But here's the thing. This is a matter of personal choice for you to make, Mike, for you to make. And if you have a business necessity to be checking constantly, and if you get pleasure out of checking constantly, I cannot prohibit you from doing this. Lauren, I understand that you want friends to be good to one another. And I appreciate that Mike is your work spouse. And I appreciate why

you might have a certain air of confidence coming into this case. Because in spousal situations, I have an almost perverse likelihood of ruling on the side of the of the wife uh but guess what you're not married you are work spouses you need oh no yeah you're not but this is a this is this is a real issue you guys are you guys are friends you guys are friends and you spend a lot of time together at work. And I agree, you know, that it is really hard when you are spending time with a friend. And this happens to me a lot. And they're constantly taking phone calls or checking texts or checking emails. It makes you feel like human garbage. And that's terrible.

And you have said as much. And I am glad that you did say that you feel undervalued as a friend, or at least you took my verbal prompt to say those exact words, right? Because that's what you can do. But even if you were married to Mike, and even if there were the additional layer of commitment to one another that might give you more weight in saying, please don't do this, all you can do in life to another person is say, please don't do this. All you can do in life to another person is say, please don't do this. You can never say, even to your husband or spouse or wife or whatever it is, please don't want to do what you're doing. That is not something that a human can control about another human. And I guarantee you that when you find your actual spouse in life, if you look at commitment that way, if you

demand that people want things that they don't want, it's just going to be horrible for everybody. Okay? And the thing is, Mike isn't your spouse. Mike has someone that he is seeing that he wants to talk to. Oh, no. When you guys commute, your work day is over. Mike's night is beginning.

I know that you guys are friends. I know that you are friends who are good to one another. I find in favor of Mike while what he is doing makes you feel bad. And he should be, as your friend, cognizant of that, and I encourage him

to modify his behavior, both for your sake and his own, by maybe putting the phone into airplane mode when you're on the metro because, frankly, your connectivity

is going to be compromised anyway. I cannot compel him to do these things because it is a matter of choice any more than I cannot compel him to do these things because it is a matter of choice any more than I could compel another person to want to do something else just because I want it to happen. All you can do is say what you have said, Lauren, and I absolutely trust that Mike has heard what you said and will consider modifying his behavior without the compulsion from even a fake judge. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Lauren, is this the result you were expecting? Not in the least. How do you feel? I am very surprised. I am disappointed, but I do appreciate the reminder that I am not, in fact, Mike's wife. And also the reminder that I can't change what people actually want and feel.

Mike, how are you feeling? Well, the verdict was different from what I was expecting as well, to be completely honest. So, Lauren, that makes two of us. And I don't find that there is real satisfaction in this win, to be honest. Are you going to change your behavior? I now want to change my behavior. Whether or not that will definitively happen, I'll have to check back in with you in a few months.

But yes, the judge made his point very clearly and elegantly, as only he can. Hey, guess what, guys? I just came out of chambers because I need to make one more quick ruling. I order Mike to not change what he wants to do. Hey, no! I'm sorry, Lauren. If you do that, Mike, then we go away from here having learned nothing. wants to do. Hey, no! I'm sorry, Lauren. If you do that, Mike,

then we go away from here having learned nothing. Mike, you will want what you want. That is the human condition. You have no control over that. What you have control over is your action. And the degree to which you modify your action

because another human being, to make another human being feel better or more valued valued or maybe even to make yourself feel better or more valued that is what you control but you can't control what you want and i don't want you to feel that you i insist that you not want to feel the way you feel about changing your wants i'm going back into chambers duly noted mike lauren thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. It was fun.

Thank you, guys. Judge Hodgman. Judge Hodgman. Hello. Hang on. Hang on a second. Hang on. Can you hear my thumbs?

Can you hear my thumbs? Don't. Come on. I'm. No, I'm not asking you, Jesse, if you can hear my thumbs? Can you hear my thumbs? Don't. Come on. I'm. No, I'm not asking you, Jesse, if you can hear my thumbs. I'm asking Jonathan Colton on the other line if he can hear me texting him at this very moment. No, no. Just.

Just. What? What? What? What? We have a docket to clear. I was just making my reservations for JoCo Cruise Crazy 3. Where's Marcus?

Hey, I'm just happy that you're coming to Max Fun Con East. Oh, me too. I'm going to all the things. Can't wait. Okay, let's clear this docket. Here's something from Adam. My girlfriend and I shop at a farmer's market in Sacramento, California. Well, good for you.

Yeah, I have fun buzz marketing your farmer's market in Sacramento. Every week she accepts samples from a number of vendors, even when she has no intention of buying the product. She thinks that farmers want to give out samples to a large number of people and hope that enough of them will be convinced to buy their product. I, on the other hand, feel that you should only sample foods you would consider buying. It's inconsiderate and wastes the farmer's time and money. I seek an injunction that if she has no intention of buying that product, she should say no thank you and keep walking. It is not surprising to me that a gentleman who regularly goes to a farmer's market

might be incredibly sanctimonious, even to his own girlfriend. regularly goes to a farmer's market, might be incredibly sanctimonious, even to his own girlfriend. The idea of a sample is to entice someone who might not be considering to buy a thing into buying a thing. The moment to take the sample when you are intent on buying the thing, that is when you are being disingenuous, because you are going to give them the money anyway. To allow yourself to be open to the enticement of buying a thing, and then to make a decision based on your enjoyment of that sample, that is the definition, frankly, of free will. Yes, cheese cubes on a toothpick, given away for free, is the definition of free will, as far as I'm concerned.

She should enjoy as many samples as she likes. Judge Hodgman, I'm really glad that you brought up Max Funcon East earlier. Actually, I brought up JoCo Crew's Crazy Three, but I also enjoy Max Funcon East as a topic of conversation. Max Funcon East is coming up at the end of Octoberober october 26th through 28th in the poconos um so all of you uh east coast and middle of the country type folks come join me and judge hodgman and lots of other special guests who we haven't announced yet uh at max fun con east max fun con.com is where you get your tickets it It is really the experience of a lifetime. And it is also about 80% full right now. So some people have been telling me, like, I don't want to wait until they announce the guests. The whole point is we don't announce the guests because we want people to be coming to MaxFunCon not to see a particular person.

And so if you wait until the guests are announced, you're going to be rear end out on this thing. Yeah. And also, I happen to know, unless things have changed, I know of one secret guest who's very exciting. You don't come to the Maximum Fun family of podcasts because you know Jesse's going to be talking to, what's the name of a celebrity, Jesse? Bruce Jenner? Yeah. Like, you don't come to Maximum Fun because Jesse, Jesse? Bruce Jenner? Yeah. Like, you don't come to Maximum Fun because Jesse's talking to Bruce Jenner. You come to Maximum Fun

because you know Jesse's going to be talking to interesting people. Like Bruce Jenner from the Olympics. Like Bruce Jenner from the Olympics, for example. Now, is it the gathering of the juggalos of the Max Fun family? Of course it is. But you do not need to know who the acts are because you are coming to enjoy the company of

people, like-minded individuals who all enjoy the same sort of thing. And that thing specifically isn't a band or a person or a personality, but the delight of being surprised. MaxFunCon.com is where you go to get your tickets. And I think you should go to JoCo Cruise Crazy, too. I say take two vacations this year. No, no, no, JoCo Cruise Crazy 3. As well. Take Jo, go to JoCo Cruise Crazy as well.

Go to all the things, everybody. Anyway, we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts

about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.