Judge John Hodgman - Assault and Hey Batter Battery

Episode Date: June 29, 2016

Naomi brings the case against her husband, Spencer. She’s embarrassed by his loud and incessant heckling at baseball games. It’s fun for him and he thinks major league players are fair game. Who's right? Who's wrong?  Tickets for the Judge John Hodgman Live Justice Tour are selling quickly! Check out MaximumFun.org or JohnHodgman.com/Tour for ticket links and more information!  

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, assault and hay batter battery. Naomi brings the case against her husband, Spencer. She's embarrassed by his loud and incessant heckling at baseball games. He thinks it's fun and he says major league players are fair game. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Well, I know change is natural for any city, but must everything be torn down for change to occur? Isn't there room for a place where people from all walks of life

can sit down and have a good meal free of gimmicks and pretension, where the size of your party matters more than the size of your paycheck, where both the sober and the inebriated can find comfort in a slice of scrapple. Isn't there, Jesse? Swear them in while you think it over. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you

swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that there are no, no longer operational hockey teams involved in this case? Yes. Yes. Very well, Judge Hodgman. involved in this case yes yes very well judge hodgman naomi and spencer you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favor can either of you name the piece of culture that i referenced as i entered the courtroom uh spencer you have been brought in against your will by naomi so you have first guess if you wish to make a guess. If you don't want to make a guess, you can make Naomi guess first. And then you might gain some information from her answer. What do you say, Spencer?

Are you going to guess or are you going to make her guess first? I get part of the reference knowing the region that I'm not sure that she'll know. So I'm going to make her guess first. Maybe that'll pull it all together for you, huh? Naomi, you don't know what Scrapple is. I like Scrapple. Oh, you do? Okay. So given that I made a Scrapple reference,

can you guess what I was quoting from? I know what Scrapple is, but the reference is over my head. And I was thinking it was going to be something to do with baseball, so I don't know. I don't know if I can even guess. You do have to guess, though. It can be a bogus guess.

It could be the American Scrapple Digest of 1916. it could be the american scrapple digest of 1916 i'm gonna say it's taken from a local cookbook by some amish people called cooking with the amish with scrapple a local cookbook by some amish people called cooking with the amish with scrap yes all right i like it that's guess. Goes back over to you, Spencer. What's your guess? I'm just going to guess Philadelphia. It's part of the movie. I don't know.

I know that there's more Scrabble in Philadelphia than there is around here. So I have not seen that movie in years. But that's going to be my guess. Where, where are you currently? We are in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Right.

Okay. So your guess is the movie Philadelphia or the whole city and concept of Philadelphia? Just the movie. All right. Let me just check here. Cross-reference this. And that looks to me like all guesses are wrong.

I'm sorry. You both guessed wrong, though. I have to say, Naomi, I really wanted your guess to be correct. In the Alternate Universe podcast, that would be absolutely correct. Cooking with the Amish. Because this case involves a professional baseball team called the Philadelphia Phillies, is that correct? Yeah.

Yes. I searched my mind for Philadelphia references before I searched them for baseball references, because I know a lot more of the former than the latter. And I remembered a cartoon that appeared in the Philadelphia City paper last year that was set in the great center city Philadelphia diner called Little Pete's that has been slated for demolition for almost two years now and is still barely standing,

though it may go at any second. And a cartoonist for the city paper named mike i'm gonna guess how you pronounce his name skyer s-g-i-e-r did a cartoon about two men with mustaches lamenting how little pete's was about to close and those two men with mustaches were the great comedian paul f tompkins and me john hodg. I was quoting myself from a cartoon that someone put me in. The greatest honor I've ever received, aside from the Person of the Year award at MaxFunCon number one. Thank you very much, Jesse. I appreciate that still.

You're welcome, John. So you guys got it wrong. So we got to go hear this case. Spencer, you have been brought in here because you are a Philadelphia Phillies fan. Is that correct? Yes. And you are married to Naomiadelphia phillies fan is that correct yes and uh you are married to naomi who is embarrassed by you yeah unfortunately why are you embarrassed by your husband naomi

um i'm not a big sports fan he's trying really hard to get me into sports but he's just not helping by screaming at everyone and i'm just embarrassed by the kind of the side eyes we get from other people there and um i just never felt more british and reserved in all my life oh you're british yes oh i thought that was a ph accent. I'm sorry. It can be. Can you just say hoagie for me just to confirm? Hoagie? Yeah, she's British. It's uncanny. All right. I can do water in a Philadelphia accent, though.

Yes, please. Water. Water. Water. Wardroise. Yeah. That's all I can do. You're just doing an impression of Philly boy Roy.

I was just going to say, I can't do a Philadelphia accent, but I can do a few words from the Philly boy Roy vocabulary. Philly boy Roy, of course, being one of the many alter egos of John Worcester on the great The Best Show with Tom Sharpling. Naomi, I can understand how you would be uncomfortable in your Britishness when your husband is acting like a sports jerk, given the reputation for gentility among British sports fans. You got me there. I was actually in school with a boy who went to prison for throwing pennies at people at a football game and hurting people. Ha, ha, ha! British and reserved. who went to prison for throwing pennies at people at a football game and hurting people.

Tradition reserved. Throwing single pennies or rolls of pennies? No, well, like pound coins and like the 50p's are really sharp. Yeah. It's all kinds of whatever was in his pocket, I guess. Well, whatever money he hated in his pocket that day, he was throwing it. Spencer, have you ever been to prison for anything that you've done while sitting in the stands of a baseball game? I have not.

I have not been kicked out of a sporting event since high school. And that was a high school sporting event. Yeah, no, I appreciate that you why were you kicked out then uh heckling i was uh heckling very specific players well i mean look it's obviously it goes back to high school water under the bridge but if there's not an if you still have a grudge to bear, you want to name these players now and say why you were heckling them? Nah, it was just kind of trying to get into their heads. Same as I do today. But they were paid significantly less.

So you go to a Phillies game and you heckle, I presume, the opposing team. Right, yeah. Right. And you try to get into their heads. How do you go about it? What's your technique? It depends on whether or not it's a controversial player. There have been players that have notoriously used steroids,

so I just remind them of that for most of the innings of the game. Okay, say I'm a baseballer, and I'm a very controversial baseballer, and I'm so well known for using steroids that I have. I have hypodermic needles coming out of my thighs while I'm on the field. What do you what do you got for me? Here I come up to bat. All right.

I know the last game we went to, I made fun of the size of the player's feet which I have no evidence on whether or not this player had small feet but that was about all my artillery for nine innings you focused on that one thing yeah yeah that one very

specific thing kind of throw him off guard Naomi Spencer seems unwilling to directly quote himself. What was he saying to Johnny Smallfeet in the baseball team? What was the guy's name? The Reuter or the one with Smallfeet? Smallfeet. That was Joey Votto.

Joey's got little feet, size six women's. Over and over again for the entire game. And how close to the player were you? Close. Yeah, like make an eye contact with us close. We were about four rows from the front. And Joey Votto is a player who is known for responding to heckling and antagonism from opposing teams fans and in some cases even sort of courting it with the occasional sort of flippant demonstration on the field. Is that so?

occasional sort of flippant demonstration on the field. Is that so? Yeah, I may or may not have caused a little child to not get a foul ball thrown to him by Joey Votto. How did it go down? He caught a foul ball and went to kind of gesture that he was going to throw it to a small child, and then he didn't. And the crowd went nuts, booed him. And after the game, he said he wasn't trying to get back at the small child,

but to a heckler that was heckling him for the whole game. And you witnessed this happen? Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, this was the game that we were at. And is there any doubt that you were the one? You were the heckler? I'd like to think there is, but I'm really really not positive there's no way to tell one way or the other naomi was he the heckler or not in this case was he to blame i think so you think so but were

there other hecklers there not as loud as him he was the only person like during this game this is the particular game that brought this case to court. This is where it all got a little bit too much. It was a very quiet game. A lot of people left early. The Phillies weren't doing too good. Spencer was literally the only person I could hear at this game. And everyone else sitting around us was quietly watching the game, eating peanuts and whatever, and he was just screaming.

We were so close to the field. I'm pretty sure it was him. You were four rows away, Spencer? Yes, we were four rows away right next to first base, which Joey Votto plays. Yeah, and so Naomi submitted evidence, which is an article from philly.com. Quote, Votto said he was not faking out the kids

that waited by the dugout, but instead an adult that was heckling him. Votto held the ball in the air, faked the throw two times, and then walked down the dugout steps and laughed. How could that not be you? Why don't you take credit for this? I like to, but, and in my defense, this small child did get a Mike Schmidt autographed baseball, who's a legend in Philadelphia. He's legendary, among other things, for having been booed in his later seasons in Philadelphia.

Yeah, that's why I had to ask if he was actually heckling the other team or Philadelphia, because Philadelphia fans can be a little rough. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm not a Philadelphia fan all around with all the sports. It's only the Phillies. So I'm not quite as harsh against my own teams as a lot of fans of Philadelphia. Have you ever heckled a Philly? I have not.

I know you said that no hockey teams should be named or no current hockey teams, but I have heckled Philadelphia Flyers, and that didn't go over very well. What happened then? Just a lot more negative and blatant anger from other fans. I was outnumbered. Yeah, that would seem to be a death wish. As someone who has attended a hockey game,

I wouldn't cross anyone in the five-mile radius of a hockey. What do you call it, Jesse? Hockey slick? Yeah, I believe it's called a hockey slick. Right. It's called a cold hockey slick, technically. Called a cold hockey slick? For winter hockey.

You guys are talking about winter hockey, right? Yes. Yeah, so then it's called a cold hockey slick. And then in the summer, they play on a hot slick. Oh, yeah. Hot slick hockey, I like. That's what I follow. Yeah.

Because it's so hot. You know, ultimately, to me, it's it's about like the spirit of team play. And I just see that a lot more in hot hockey than cold hockey. Like, I feel like they really like know the fundamentals, passing, you know, it's not just a, it's not just a bunch of, you know,

runs on the goal, you know? Yeah. And also what makes it so much fun is you're not on skates, but you're just in bare feet wading through half an inch of boiling water. Yeah, it's toasting. Yeah, and there's a lot of hot spray as you hit the puck with your hockey stick. You get a lot of, it's kind of a hot splash fight. Yeah, they're very gutsy players.

That's right. So what happened when you heckled the hockey team? That's right. So what happened when you heckled the hockey team? Nothing actually came of that. Just a lot of angry fans until we left. And then the team I was rooting for ended up losing. So I just kind of covered myself up and walked out as quick as I could. Naomi, it sounds to me like Spencer is yelling at people all the time.

Is this true? No, he's a very sweet, lovable guy. And then we go to a game and he just turns into an animal. I don't know what happens to him. How long have you guys been married? We've been married two years. And how did you meet? We were like just friends online for a little bit, just talking for a few weeks.

And then I actually won a trip to New York with the old company I worked for. So I just said to Spencer, hey, I'm going to be like a couple of hours away from you. Do you want to hang out? And then the rest is history. Wow. And what was your job in England? Did you live in England? In Wales. In Wales? I lived, yeah. I worked in a call center selling credit reports, and I sold a lot of them and got myself a trip. Well, well done. And what do you do now? Now I'm a fiber artist. I make slippers and decor and all kinds of baby things from alpaca fiber, and I sell them here in Lancaster.

Do you have your own alpacas? They're not my alpacas when I moved here there's an alpaca farm down the road from us I asked her if I could help out just to keep me occupied while I found a job and I just never left. This sounds like a tremendous life change that you went through

It was pretty drastic How do you like it? I love it. It's like the old expression once you go alpaca you never go alpaca How do you like it? I love it. It's like the old expression. Once you go alpaca, you never go alpaca. I'm sorry. I'm fired. I'm firing myself.

I'd like the Kung Pao chicken, please. Once you go alpaca, you never go alpaca. That's enough. That's a pretty good joke, though. I like it. Well, it's better than vicuñas, that's for sure. But you went from selling credit reports in Wales to making fiber art from someone else's alpacas in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

That is the British dream, is it not? Yeah, it's what everyone wants to do. We're actually on Friday having an alpaca wedding. Oh, you're marrying two alpacas? I didn't know they were monogamous. Yeah, they are now. Well, what is an alpaca wedding? Well, it's part of a summer camp. Every summer, they is an alpaca wedding? Well, it's part of a summer camp.

Every summer they do an alpaca camp for the kids. They come and train the animals to do obstacle courses and things like that. Like a regular wedding. Yeah. Who gets married in the wedding after the various obstacle courses? So it's going to be a little baby Tessa, who's coming up two-year-old, and Tucker, who is just over one-year-old boy. So it's the babies getting married.

It's an arranged child alpaca wedding? Yes. Monstrous. Savage. Savage, I dare say. Take pictures and send them in. We'll put them on the website if you don't mind. Absolutely.

And Spencer, are you from the region? Originally, I am from Louisville, Kentucky, but I moved up here about 12, 13 years ago. And what did you move for or what are you doing now? Then my dad had gotten transferred with his job up to harrisburg we moved in this area now i am a bartender in lancaster fantastic and did you ever imagine you would you would have a foreign bride with fiber making skills i didn't but it's uh free slippers for life that's what marriage is all about certainly any alpaca marriage. Well,

congratulations on you guys finding each other. But I think I want to ask Naomi, having moved across the Atlantic ocean to join a stranger in a strange land and having fallen in love and then gotten married. How did you feel when your husband revealed this? I want to say this Mr. Hyde side of himself but it's really more of a Dr. Heckle you're fired too

Judge Hodgman yes please well the first time it happened it was the steroids guy it was the first one so baseball had been on TV before we went. I have no clue what's going on. Like, Spencer's tried to explain the rules. No idea.

But I like the food. Sure. Why aren't they wearing sweaters? And why doesn't it take five days to play it? Yeah. Yeah. But I like the food. I love the Phillies fanatic. He me laugh so much so I go to these games

with him for that and the first time he heckled I just I don't even know what to think like he was just a totally different person he's so like sweet and laid back usually I mean he had no voice by the end of the game he was screaming so much and so ever since then he promises me every game that he's not going to hackle and it just always ends up me going back to the car grumpy because he's hackled every time spencer what did you yell at the person who was using steroids i just let him know that he shouldn't be allowed in the league and how awful he is. He's a pretty high-profile player

with quite a bit of controversy around him. Who is it? It doesn't matter to me. His name is Ryan Braun. And what do you yell at Ryan Braun? And I don't want you to paraphrase what you yell at him. I want you to do it. You want me to yell? Yeah,'t want you to paraphrase what you yell at him i want you to i want you to do it uh you want me to yell yeah i want you to yell just maybe back up a little bit from the microphone and i want to hear what it sounds like to be your mail order bride with no idea of who she's married and learning all of a sudden through your loud uh voice i'm brawn you suck! You shouldn't be allowed in the

league! And things like that. Well, you know what? To your credit, you had quoted yourself pretty accurately. I didn't mean to refer to you as a mail-order bride, Naomi. Well, I didn't mean to. That was the joke I was making, but I didn't mean it, obviously.

So, how do you feel when your beloved reveals this side to himself did you have a moment of going like oh my god i made a horrible mistake in coming to the game yes um but just embarrassed frightened sometimes like when we were at that flyers game i honestly thought that was the end for me i thought everyone was going to murder us what was the reaction of the people around you well did they say things did they threaten yeah well not threaten but um spencer was called out because and he's probably gonna argue me on this but we were there with a couple couple of friends and Spencer was so caught up in his

heckling. He's just screaming all kinds of stuff and booing. Well, it was during like a little interval or whatever and some kids came onto the ice and they started skating around and Spencer was still booing. Kids like children? Yeah, like

six years old. Is this a new kind of hockey that i haven't heard about where the where the hockey players shoot children instead of pucks into the goal yeah i wish you wish yeah he was still booing and so according to everyone around it no way what was happening it was some kind of some kind of it was between periods and some according to everyone around it no way what was happening it was some kind of some kind of it was between periods and some charity thing was happening it was like an alpaca wedding down there on the ice something yeah something like that it was in between plays and i think they just let the kids come out and skate around

um so after he booed these children and somebody right well why wouldn't you? Boo! You're not as good at hockey as the other guys! You don't seem professional! Boo! Too small! Boo, let's see some fights! Boo! I throw batteries at you children! Boo! Boo! Let's see some fights! Boo! I throw batteries at you children! Boo!

Why were you booing the children, Spencer? Well, I wasn't booing the children. There was a video clip playing up on the big screen at the time with an interview of one of their players, and I was booing that, not realizing that these children were skating onto the ice. You were booing a video clip. Yeah, you know that guy who's being videoed can't hear you. That happened before. You can't boo back in time to reach that guy's ears through the TV screen.

It's not a David Cronenberg movie. So you booed the TV screen while children are on the ice. And finally, someone said to you, hey, stop being a monster, or what? What happened? In less nice terms, that pretty much sums up that night. There was also a lot of alcohol consumed that night. Sure, well, I understand.

Yeah, that one I can't honestly say I'm a little bit ashamed of. That's one where you went too far. It is. Naomi, when you go to a ball game or a sporting event with Spencer, what percentage of the time would you say is he actively engaged in heckling? It starts off slow. It creeps up. Maybe by the fourth or fifth inning, it starts to get constant.

I mean, not taking a breath in between screaming things at people. And the last inning is usually when I just have to go and hide somewhere. Do you literally get up and hide? Get out of your seat? I have pretended to need to go to the bathroom when I haven't actually needed to go. Well, look, we're all guilty of that. There was one Shakespeare seminar I took with Harold Bloom where I did that every day. Yeah, I mean, an alternate definition of that is parenthood.

Yeah, right. And do you think, and let's's be candid here we're all adults here you say by the fourth or fifth inning things pick up a little bit does that track with say beer consumption is there a certain lowering of inhibitions that happens as the game goes on there's a definite correlation right now we all know that correlation does not necessarily mean causation. We're all skeptics in this world, but I get the picture if you know what I mean. And Naomi, do you get the sense that his behavior, and I've not seen a live Phillies baseball game in person,

do you get the sense that his behavior is unusual among the fans there in the ball game, in the ballpark with you? I mean, every game I've gone to, the Phillies have lost. So the fans have always been very... Oh, you're the curse. I am the curse.

The founder, finally. Boo. Boo the curse. Drown the witch. What? Sorry, I'm just trying to get into a sports mentality, which is pure magical thinking. I'm not asking whether his heckling helps the Phillies win or lose.

I'm asking whether the people around him react as poorly to his heckling as you do. Oh, at the last game they did. Go on. There was a family directly in front of us, and the girl who was sat right in front of Spencer would just, every time he screamed, just kind of close her eyes and scrunch her shoulders up,

like, please stop. And how old was she, would you guess? Ballpark it for me. She was like, she was a teenager, maybe like 16 or something. And then there was a family right in the front row. And Spencer doesn't believe me, but she actually went to the Empire. I couldn't hear what she was saying, but she was pointing at Spencer, looking angry.

Which she went on to the field, got the umpire's attention? No, the usher. The usher, sorry. See, this is how little I know about baseball. So the usher who was standing at the front, she went and grasped Spencer up. Oh, and what came of that? I just saw the guy shake his head and say, sorry, he's not doing anything wrong.

Spencer, you were backed up by the usher slash umpire. Fair ball as far as that guy was concerned. Spencer, did you originally come to Philadelphia because your father got a job there or more because it was the only place where your monstrous behavior was seen as almost normal. Well, the... A bit of both?

That could be why I never feel so guilty unless I am booing children. Because, yeah, I've seen Philadelphia fans do some awful things, and I have never been a part of those kind of things. I've never thrown a battery. Yeah, put it into context for us some of the awful things you've seen by which you would be judged completely benign like for example it is a tradition so I've heard to throw batteries at concerts and sporting events in Philadelphia yes or no no? True. What else happens there? What else have you seen? I know, I think it's their football stadium that has a, or their old one had a prison underneath because of all the arrests that they have. I heard that recently Philly's fans have been

booing Ryan Howard, the greatest player of the last 25 years or so in Philadelphia. Yes, he had a beer thrown at him a couple weeks ago. And he plays for the Phillies, Jesse? Yes, he does. He's a Philadelphia Phillies legend who has committed the sin of now being older and less good. Okay. I think I can get behind this kind of spite. I am from New England.

I'm going to ask you a question, Spencer, and I don't know you well enough to know how much self-reflection you practice, but I have an impression. So I'm going to ask this and give you a chance to think about it for a sec. And while you're thinking about it, I'm going to ask Naomi a couple questions.

All right. Because at stake here is that I may order you to stop doing this if things don't go your way in this court case. So what I would ask is what this means to you

and why it is meaningful to you and what you get out of it, such that I should allow it to continue. I'm not, this sounds very prejudiced. I'm not saying I'm going to disallow it, but I want you to answer that question for me. Give it some thought. Prepare your answer. Naomi, how often do you guys go to the baseball game?

About three or four times a season. And have you just considered not going and just chilling with the alpacas? Well, he always seems to really want me to go. He asks me all the time, and I do like the food, and I like the Phillies fanatic, but I do say I'll come with you if you don't hackle and then he hackles. At this point, I'm worried that you're only staying with him for his proximity to that alpaca farm.

I'll go live in the barn if I have to. In the rest of your relationship, though, all's well? All good. Everything. And you say he's very laid back and sweet otherwise. Yeah. You guys live in a freestanding home someplace? What's happening? What's the rest of your life like?

Well, yeah, we live together. We have lots of pets at home as well. What are we talking about? We have a rooster. and two dogs, two cats, lots of fish. Does he ever heckle the animals? Boo! Too furry! Bad crowing!

You don't deserve to eat kibble in this league can't lay eggs can't lay eggs any hobbies he has that uh are complementary to your alpaca hair knitting um well when he comes to the farm he actually likes the goats more than the alpacas. But we go to a lot of shows together. Funnily enough, this is something I was going to mention. When we go to shows and people talk loudly, he tells them to be quiet. Hypocrisy watch. Like what kind of shows?

Music shows? You guys can see bands? Yeah. What bands do you see? Most recently, we saw Charles Bradley. I guess that's a band. I don't know things about things. That's a guy. That's a daptone soul singer.

Oh, cool. Yeah. Jesse, by the way, this is the first annual Bailiff Awards, and it's been in contention for a while, but I'm just going to open the envelope now and say the award goes to Bailiff Jesse Thorne for helping me out today. Oh, thank you. With all of the baseball and daptones references that I do not catch.

I give you an award for being a loyal and beloved friend. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. But Jesse. Oh, yeah. I can't think of a way to heckle you i was trying but i couldn't twee hipster twee hipster talks too smug talks too smug i cannot allow you to heckle although bad alpaca joke, bad alpaca joke. So now I'll come back to Spencer.

Spencer, you know the question that I asked, but I've been talking to Naomi, you may have heard, and I have two extra questions for you. One, do you really shush other people and get upset for them at talking during concerts i i do but i i think that's a completely different thing because explain at sporting events there there's literally a big sign that'll just say make noise every few minutes i know isn't that

so much fun when the sign tells you what to do? But at concerts and stuff like that, people are paying specifically to listen and watch those artists. Do you ever go to comedy shows? We, I haven't, I think, ever. So you don't have any experience with heckling in comedy shows? No, I couldn't do that either. That's another thing. So you weren't part of the crowd that legendarily heckled Bill Burr in Philadelphia's Veterans Stadium and led him to abandon his planned 20-minute comedy set and just yell angry profanities at the crowd, coherent ones, for a full 15 or 20 minutes. No, I did see that, though.

And like I said, I'm not all around a Philadelphia fan, so I really, really enjoyed that because he kind of... Because you felt like you were on his team in that because you don't root for all the Philadelphia teams. Yeah. Yeah, but my impression from that was that the Philadelphians in the crowd also loved it because they love being told that Philadelphia bites it.

Yeah, they like to have things to get angry about. Yeah, it's a town that likes to get angry. It is. I think 2008, when the Phillies won the World Series, there was an insane amount of damage done in that city. They were so mad. They were so mad at winning. They were. They were mad enough to burn cars. Next follow-up question. Why like goats so much?

They like me a lot more than the alpacas like me. They'll kind of come up to me, sniff me, let me pet them. The alpacas aren't my friends. The alpacas are like, well, that guy seems like a thug to me. Let him, he should go hang out with the goats. And the goats say, hey, is that a tin can? Hey, maybe that guy will throw a battery at me. Let's hope. And now finally, why should I rule in your favor and not Naomi's?

What does heckling at sports events mean to you such that I should uphold your right to do it? So I think that heckling in sports has always been a part of baseball. I think back in the day day you heard the swing batter batter swing and that was kind of an old fashioned version of what I'm doing. I just think it's always been part of the game. But swing batter

batter is is that heckling, Jesse? It's not abusive. It's not like you're out there yelling, we want a pitcher not a belly itcher. It's a little different than throwing a can of beer at someone or a goat. But being vocally engaged has always been part of the sport.

Is that what you're saying? Right, yes. And do you think you could enjoy baseball in the same way if i were to put a gag order on you or literally force you to wear a gag in the future next time you go um no i think i didn't i would probably enjoy the game just as much but it wouldn't be as much fun or as i wouldn't feel as part of that particular game. If I'm getting reactions out of the players when I wouldn't be heckling them. Do you notice that you're getting a reaction out of your wife that she is

uncomfortable and shy about your heckling? Uh, yeah, I, I do notice it. It's, it's just the kind of thing where, you know, once I start at a game, I can't just stop. I don't know.

I guess it's some kind of weird personal rule. Wait, this is a matter of principle? You don't want to quit on yourself? I thought you were going to say compulsion disorder. You're the Rudy of heckling? I refuse to quit. Why is your desire to heckle more important than your wife's feelings about your heckling? Oof.

I guess they're not. I guess they're not see I just always think it's something where that I think it's much funnier than she does because a lot of these players she's not very familiar with and the kind of reaction that I'm trying to get you're suggesting that if she followed baseball more

closely you yelling and making 15 year old girls around you nervous and upset would be a lot funnier. Yeah. Yeah. In context, this guy's a Reuter. Therefore, I should scream at everyone around me.

Well, I mean, the Reuting thing went over a lot better in the stadium than the small feed thing. It was the small feed thing it was the small feet thing where people were really getting upset the the reining thing everyone was kind of on my side why also why the small feet what does that guy have small feet i don't know it's just something that they they won't hear and that'll get a bigger reaction than any kind of personal actual insult why small feet and not small hands are small hands just for politics small feet for sports it's the first thing i thought of thank you naomi how much of this do you think is

anxiety over your husband's behavior versus simply uh anxiety your anxiety about being in a culture that is relatively new to you that you don't understand? I mean, I could deal with being in a culture that I don't understand if my husband wasn't screaming next to me. It makes it a lot harder to enjoy and get used to, so I think it's mostly the hackling, because I do

have a good time at the games other than the hackling. And finally, you guys are getting some pretty good seats at this baseball game. Like four rows away from first base. That's pretty good, right? Jesse, is that pretty good? I've been a baseball fan my entire life, like a huge baseball fan. I have had seats that good once. It was because my friend Dimitri worked for a law firm that represented the Dodgers. And it was literally

a distance where people were just having conversations with San Francisco Giants coach Hensley Mullins, just like chatting, like fans were having conversations with the coach on the field during the game. Is there a difference in heckling culture sort of in the bleachers versus close to the game? I never thought of that, but there could be because it really didn't seem like there were many people yelling when we were up close. But the last time we were quite a bit further back and there were more people around us yelling. OK, I think I've heard everything that I need to hear. I'm going to go in to consult with the five alpacas I have in my chambers. And just for fairness of representation, I also have a goat in there and we'll talk it over.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom naomi how are you feeling about your chances i think that went pretty well are you concerned that spencer at some point might do something that lands him in the jail underneath uh Stadium. It seems to be going that way. That's why we need to nip it in the bud. Spencer, are you worried? I'm a little bit worried. Yeah, I don't think that went over well,

as well as I would have liked with me. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also

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at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. So to a certain degree here, we have a cultural gap because even though has jesse thorn established there is a long legacy of people yelling and throwing things at sporting events in the uk uh it does not seem to have been a legacy that uh that naomi participated in when she lived there. And now she is in the midst of a new culture, a culture of baseball, which some people, including me, associate with literally a day in the park, a lovely open air afternoon watching an exposition of some men standing

and then after a while not standing so slowly. And they occasionally run. I always find baseball to be extremely leisurely, not as hectic as some other sports. And more, this is truly, you know, a story of two lovers who had never met except for online and then got together and now have been married for two years. except for online, and then got together and now have been married for two years. And a woman from across the seas is an entirely different culture, and not just the United Statesian culture, but the Pennsylvanian culture. And then as well, from time to time, the Philadelphian culture, which is a very specific kind of culture.

I don't think that anyone would have predicted that in the city of brotherly love, their nickname is highly ironic. And it is, in fact, the city of brotherly yelling at each other from time to time and battery throwing and anger. And I say that as a very, very fond stepson of Philadelphia, not stepson, but my mother was from Philadelphia. So half Philadelphian in a way myself. I feel a kinship with Philadelphia, as I mentioned, because I come from New England where getting angry at someone is often the highest form of affection for another person. And cursing at them is a little bit of a love letter from time to time.

And Philadelphia sports culture, as little as I understand of it, largely through what Jesse has explained for me today and what I've understood through the Philly boy Roy bits on The Best Show with Tom Sharpling, particularly contentious sports culture in which one takes real pleasure in hating the thing they're supposed to like which was borne out by the fact that beers are being thrown at very fine players and everyone's everyone gets mad when they win so uh it's really a i think more than what naomi was counting on when she went to her first American baseball game. And I am not surprised that she feels overwhelmed and a little embarrassed and a little uncomfortable, especially since the man that she moved across the ocean for, who is by all accounts a lovely dude who shushes people at the concert hall, turns into this braying monster in the baseball park.

And you could sense, Spencer, that I was pushing you pretty hard on trying to understand and get some sort of, I guess, poetic response as to what heckling means to you as a participant, as a lover of sports, how it's part of the history and the legacy of sports. And I guess maybe that was prejudiced of me because I'm not sure that there's any poetry to this. I think that it is just a kind of hyper-masculine, maybe there are no words, maybe I just need to grunt this one,

hyper-masculine do-thing that gives pleasure at sports. And I was actually, came around to some degree to your point of view, Spencer, when you explained that this player that you were heckling Vato doesn't necessarily have small feet that was just a thing that you thought to say to him that got the reaction that you

wanted and so you pressed on and you pressed on until finally he got so mad, he denied a child pleasure. And in a weird kind of way, that was its own poetry. I mean, I feel bad for that little kid. But you found a way through an almost nonsensical physical non-attribute to really get at a guy. So at least by your own terms, congratulations there. I don't doubt that this is part of the culture and i asked you though if you had ever been to a comedy show where there is heckling because that is a place that is a place where there is there are people who will say that heckling is an important part of the comedy culture and i don't know what you feel about that jesse but i have a strong feeling about it

there was definitely a time when comedy occurred and was just sort of seen as a goofy clown act between the real acts which were the bands or the singers, and there was alcohol usually being served, and where there was a ribald give and take between audience member and comedian, and comedians needed to be loaded for bear in case the audience members came at them. And I will say that the only time that I have ever been heckled at all in my life, and, you know, look at me.

I'm not a club comic. I'm the alpaca of comedians. A big snob who hates the goats, right? The only time I've ever been heckled has been when I performed in Philadelphia. And when I performed in Philadelphia, every time I have been heckled, it has always been the case that there has been some disruption, someone deciding to be part of

the show, someone usually being inebriated beyond their capacity, who had to say things. And it was profoundly unsettling to me. And yet it really tested me as a performer. And in all of the cases, I've eventually had to bring them on stage and then really test their wits. And usually their wits failed and I established dominance.

And it was this incredibly deep, gr masculine do thing that happened that I almost would feel sad if it had never happened in my life despite how dangerous and disruptive it felt at the time I guess part of what I'm saying here, Naomi is, this is part of Philadelphia fan culture and like it or not, it exists. And your husband is pretty good at it. Philadelphia has a weird energy to it. And I will say, Spencer,

you are tapped into that energy deeply. Are you not, sir? I would say. There's no explanation for what you do. You become possessed of that Philadelphia spite energy and you do it.

And it does not matter if it hurts your wife. It does not matter if it hurts a 15 year old child sitting in front of you. It's got to happen. And I don't know how to deny a man his right to make other people uncomfortable around him at sports. Every time I've been to a sports game, that seems to be what happens to me. Seems to me that's part of the culture. Who am I to try to change it?

happens to me. Seems to me that's part of the culture. Who am I to try to change it? But I will say this. You've heard from your wife and you know how she feels. You've made promises to take her feelings into account that you have failed to keep and that cannot stand. Do not promise not to heckle and then heckle no matter what personal rule you have to break your promises and go too far in your life. Even if that is your code, because that is something that will carry over in time in your relationship beyond the moment of your wife cringing during the sports game.

And I would encourage you as well to consider context for heckling beyond what is happening just around the one inch perimeter around your body. what is happening just around the one inch perimeter around your body. So for example, I am not surprised to learn that even in an off year where Phillies tickets are available on the cheap, that there is still, as in most places outside of Philadelphia, a different standard of behavior as you get closer to the field, but closer to the field. That's the, that's sort of the snobby alpaca end of the sports watching with,

with lots of fancy folks and their well-heeled kids and the further away from the field and other sort of less desirable places and maybe standing room only places. That's where the bad kids hang out and they yell about small feet all the time. be standing room only places. That's where the bad kids hang out and they yell about small feet all the time. And so I will order this. You cannot heckle at a Philadelphia Phillies game a clear, affirmative consent heckling zone. So if you buy your tickets close to the field, look around you.

Take a moment to soak it in, who these people are around you and whether they're going to want to hear you psychologically torment a player and make them wonder whether or not you're going to throw a beer or jump onto the field. If that's what you want to do, get back to the yelling people.

Down close to the field, look around you and look at your wife sitting next to you and think about, do I want her to keep coming to these games? Do I want her to feel comfortable too? Do I want to have this relationship? Do I want to be known as someone who keeps my promises? And then you say to her, either, I promise not to heckle.

Or, sorry, honey, honey i'm gonna do it but either way be honest so that she can make a fair decision to get out of there and pretend to use the bathroom for two hours this is the sound of a gavel judge Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Naomi, how are you feeling about this case? Do you feel like in giving your husband the right to heckle, the judge has gone too far? Um, no. He still has the right to heckle, but I do like how he's put him in the appropriate place to do it rather than right up front spencer when mike schmidt autographed a ball for the little

boy that joey vato didn't throw a ball to uh did you boo him I, I did not see him autograph the ball, but I would not have. Well, I wish you the best of luck expressing your essential Philadelphia-ness. Uh, I am expressing my essential San Franciscan-ness in judging you for it. Uh, Naomi Spencer, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is

mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-H. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

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If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Judge Hodgman. Bad chambers. Bad chambers. Judge Hodgman, are you, are you heckling your chambers again?

Yeah, is that, I don't know how this works. I don't know sports. Is it wrong to heckle a physical structure? I mean, it's ineffective. At the very least, you should at least, bare minimum, you should be heckling a video recording. Poor sight lines.

No open kitchen. Have you ever heckled at a sporting event, Judge Hodgman? No, I've only ever cheered fantastic accomplishment. Yeah, like the majesty of sport and everything? Yeah, well, overall. And then what if one individual sportser does a good thing? I'm like, whoa. Get a load of that.

I haven't done much cheering or booing recently because I'm a Giants fan. And when I'm at Dodger Stadium here in Los Angeles, I just fear that if I make myself too conspicuous, I'll be murdered. I forgot to explain that the last time I was heckled in Philadelphia, a guy was very inebriated. And again, I had to wonder, what are you doing here? Like, you know what I do. I'm making jokes about Ayn Rand. This isn't the Opie and Anthony tour. I brought him on stage and I said, I want to give you this.

And I saw someone in the front row was knitting a super long doctor who scarf from the fourth doctor era that you don't even need to see that you can just assume that's going on at a john hodgman show i know right it's like man may i borrow that scarf for a moment i said put this on what doctor is this from? And he said, oh, I don't know. And then he said, can I wear it? And I'm like, you can wear it if you're quiet. And he said, okay. It's probably the most masculine I've ever been.

And it involved a Tom Baker scarf. So I feel good about it. You've never felt more virile than when you nerd shamed that drunk man. I know. And he didn't knowamed that drunk man. I know. And he didn't know what was going on. Poor guy. What was he? Even if he saw me on The Daily Show, what was he expecting me to do?

Like, what kind of show did he think it was going to be? I think he probably just bought tickets to a comedy show. There's just a deep, dark energy to Philadelphia that I truly love. Philadelphia's an awesome place. Yeah. I love Philadelphia, too. This week's show, engineered by Justin at Frederick Lee and Lloyd Studios. So thanks to him, our producer, Jennifer Marmer. This week's show, named by James Callen, if you want to name a future episode of the program.

My recommendation to you? Well, it's simple. Follow us on Twitter at Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne. Like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook and join the Maximum Fun Facebook group so that you can get in on all the action. If you're a Redditor, MaximumFun.Reddit.com is the place to go. We have a lively community there that discusses every Judge John Hodgman episode. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHo, MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. And we're headed to

the Northeast, including Philadelphia, on our Judge John Hodgman tour in September. That's right. We're going to Portland, Turner's Falls, Massachusetts, Boston, Massachusetts, Brooklyn, New York. And then guess where? Right after that, Philadelphia. What's going to happen at that show? Now I'm really worried. London, and if you have a dispute in any of these towns or major cities, major global cities, that you would like to have heard on stage, go to that maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho, the submission form there, just like you're going to submit a regular case, just mention you'd like to hear it heard live on stage in the city in which you live. I also want to mention that when we're in London, if you're a listener in London, or you've got people in the UK, not only is there going to be Judge John Hodgman, we're also going to be doing a live International Waters, which is our comedy quiz show. And that is hilarious. Hosted by Dave Holmes.

And we will have famous comedians on the panel of that show, I promise you. And I'm going to be hosting a live edition of my show, Bullseye, which is an NPR public radio program. It will have two big name interviews, most likely a band, a music act, and a great standup comic. It's going to be a heck of a show. We haven't booked all of those names yet, but I assure you, we just put together our list of prospective guests and it was a real strong one. And I feel like we're going to have a pretty amazing lineup. So you're going to want to buy your tickets for that before we announce that, let's say, a member of the Gorillas who's friends with our producer, Dan, is on the show or something similar. Again, I can't make, maybe he's got a gig somewhere, but you know. Well, it looks like I have to go back to the encyclopedia to solve this one.

So there are going to be amazing guests on both of those shows. So if you're in London, bear in mind, no one knows who we are. So two things. One, get your tickets now before we announce our famous guests. And two, tell your friends that we're going to be there because this is a big trip for us.

We're really excited about it. We want to have lots of folks there to enjoy it. Absolutely. All that having been said, we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hot dogs, not a sandwich. Maximumfun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned.

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