Judge John Hodgman - Backseat Jiver

Episode Date: June 4, 2014

Zaki always controls the stereo on long car rides, and Michelle wants to get in on the action. Who gets to choose the audio playlist on a road trip, the driver or the passenger?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, backseat jiver. Zeki brings the case against his wife, Michelle. He almost always drives when they go on long road trips together. He says that as the driver, he should get to pick the music for the playlist. Michelle says the trips are long and she doesn't always enjoy the music. Why shouldn't she get to choose every once in a while? Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. The making of a great compilation tape like Breaking Up is hard to do and takes ages longer than it might seem. You got to kick off with a killer to grab attention. Then you got to take it up a notch. But you don't want to blow killer to grab attention. Then you got to take it up a notch. But you don't want to blow your wads. And then you got to cool it off a notch. There are a lot of rules.

Anyway, I've started to make a tape in my head for Bailiff Jesse. Full of stuff he likes. Full of stuff that makes him happy. For the first time, I can sort of see how that's done. Bailiff Jesse, I hope you like my mixtape. Now swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that when he's driving, he insists on listening to the L. Ron Hubbard album Space Jazz.

I do. I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Zeki and Michelle, you may be seated. Space Jazz, is that a real thing? Oh, yeah. And how? It's one of several albums that he composed.

Music albums? Music albums. It is amazing. I spent the entire first six months of 2013 reading all the books about Scientology and going down every possible internet rabbit hole reading about Scientology. I cannot believe I missed that. Nathan Rabin wrote a spectacular article on the subject for Slate. He recorded several albums and they feature many famous celebrity Scientologists. You know, Chick Corea is a Scientologist. The late Isaac Hayes was a Scientologist. Of course, John Travolta is a Scientologist. All of them perform songs written by L. Ron Hubbard, and L. Ron Hubbard semi-sings one song.

Oh, I'll have to go listen to this. It's truly mind-bending. Fascinating. Let's get down to business for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom? Hint, it's not space jazz because I never heard of it. And this is something that I've heard of. That's another hint. Zeki, can you do it? The closest thing I would guess is it sounds kind of like High Fidelity by Nick Hornby. Michelle?

I have no idea. All right. Zeki, so close. So close. It is High Fidelity. The movie based on the novel High Fidelity by Nick Hornby. Oh, no. Don't worry.

The game was rigged. I figured someone who submitted his driving playlist, which clocks in at 24 pages, probably would guess High Fidelity. And so I got to be honest with you. I had it rigged. If you had said it was from the movie, I would have said it was from the book. Oh, man. And so I had it. I got to be honest with you. I had it rigged. If you had said it was from the movie, I would have said it was from the book and vice versa. And I would have protected myself on the paraphrase aspect because I don't it does appear in the book, but I'm not sure if the wording is exactly that way. But bring the case against your wife for wanting to very occasionally listen to a

song she chooses on your car trips, which you find to be offensive and unacceptable. And you sent in, as evidence, your driving playlist, which as I say, clocks into 24 pages long. Given that you submitted a playlist that is 24 pages long, are you capable of summarizing your position briefly so that we can start this off in a conversational tone? Can you give me a baseline as to why you feel that I should rule that you and only you should be able to choose what is listened to on these car trips? Sure. Well, I would say that the whole entire framing of the argument is probably evidence of our different views in the sense that I don't think... All right, so I'll take it from the beginning.

We go on many road trips, and whenever I drive, I like to play music from my extensive playlist. Whenever I drive, I like to play music from my extensive playlist. My perspective and my thought is that whenever Michelle wants to listen to the songs that she wants to listen to, I oblige her. And we usually listen to one or two of her songs, and we go back to my playlist. And I guess part of the problem is that sometimes Michelle feels like I'm forcing my music onto her, and she won't say anything about it. So then we'll keep on listening to my music with her getting upset without vocalizing that. So I'm totally fine slipping in other songs in the midst of my 24 pages of music. In your mind, she's entitled to how many?

One or two songs per car trip? So it's not, I think it's not the amount. It's that – it's like the – it's how many are in a block. Okay. For me, like I wouldn't mind one of her songs per my six or seven songs or something like that. It's when we do like four or five of her songs. And it also depends on what the song is. like four or five of her songs. And also depends on what the song is. Like if it's four songs in Urdu or Arabic, for example,

just for the sake of me as a driver, I just like lose, I can't concentrate and I can't even understand the lyrics I'm listening to. And that's when my mind starts drifting. And so that's why when it's like a block of songs, that's when I start. Thank you. Well, well, well summed up. Michelle, you also submitted summed up Michelle. You also submitted a playlist,

which was, which was merely six pages long. And, and you know, there, there are a lot of songs on there that, that I know I'm yours by Jason Razz. You mostly know the good stuff, right? You got the hits is what i'm saying you got the hits on your playlist in fact let me get let me get your playlist up here

uh but also if memory serves quite a few urdu language songs is Is that not correct? That's right. And also several other languages that are not English. Okay. What's going on there? How many Urdu and Arabic were the two that Zeki had a particular problem with? I think, I don't want to speak for him, but I think the dispute has been around non-English. Non-English language music, which you like and he hates. I really enjoy it. And that's something for me, it's like a cultural experience when I can listen to another language. I can practice the other language when I'm listening to it. And I like to also sing in different languages. So I'm learning that when I'm listening to it.

So there's a number of languages, but I'd say Arabic is probably the most prevalent. Are you fluent in Arabic or Urdu, which is a language of the Indian subcontinent, I believe? That's right. I am not fluent. I have advanced Arabic language skills and the other languages, I've advanced Spanish, but the other languages are things that I'm just, they're aspirational for me. But the point is you like the music. I do. It's got a good beat and you can dance to it.

That's right. All right. And Zeki doesn't like it because unlike you, a cosmopolitan woman of the world, he is small minded. Well, I wouldn't put it that way. No? I wish you would. I wish you would. I guess that would be more funny. But I think that Zeki and I have different philosophies around listening to music. I really admire the way he listens to music.

He listens to the lyrics in a way that I don't really. I listen to more the beat. I listen to even the technical aspects of the way the person is performing the music, like the singing types of aspects. the way the person is performing the music, like the singing types of aspects. And so I think it's more, I think it's less about his cosmopolitanism and more about the fact that he doesn't actually, he can't grasp onto the lyrics and contemplate them when he's driving, when he doesn't understand them. Yeah. Well, but this is the thing. This is not just about listening to songs. It's specifically about listening to music while driving. So give me a little background here. specifically about listening to music while driving. So give me a little background here. You two are married? Yes. That's correct. Okay. And Michelle, how long have you guys been married?

We've been married since 2009. Congratulations. Do you have children? Are there children who are watching mommy and daddy fight over the songs? There are no children. No. Oh, okay. It's just the two of you having a wonderful adventure. What are your ages? Actually, today is Zeki's birthday, and he is 25 today. Happy birthday. And I'm 28. Thank you very much. Oh, so you're young people who are married without children. No wonder you're having such an easy time finding meaningless garbage to fight over. That's great.

You know what I mean? Because as soon as you have a child, you understand, Zeki, that your 24-page playlist is going straight into the shredder. It's going to be 100% Dan Zanes, which is actually, you'd be lucky if it were true. You'd be lucky if it were true. There's a lot of great Cynthia Hopkins songs on those Dan Zanes, which is, which actually you'd be lucky if it were true. You'd be lucky if it were true.

There's a lot of great Cynthia Hopkins songs on those Dan Zanes albums. And there's other music. There's a, believe me, there's other music. Are you going to have children? Do you think? Oh yeah, definitely. It always makes me nervous when the husband chimes in like that. So fast. Oh yes. My legacy will continue. She will bear me a male child.

We do agree on that. Just write down these words, Ella Jenkins, and particularly the song, Many Pretty Trees All Around the World. Ella Jenkins used to appear on Mr. Rogers. I don't know if she's still living. I'd be surprised, but happily so if she were. And she recorded a lot of folk songs as children's music and is just a wonderful performer. And the song Many Pretty Trees All Around the World is one of the craziest songs I've ever heard.

So make a note, add it to your list. Okay. Why are you going on all these road trips, Zeki? Most of the time when we do it, it's to visit Michelle's family. Her mom lives in New Jersey. Her brother lives in Ohio. She's got another sister who lives in California. So usually when we do long road trips, it's to visit one of her family members. Are you driving all the way to California?

No, not to California. Oh, okay. I guess just in general, her family is scattered. While my family is all in one place. Where is your family? They're all in Northern Virginia. And that's where you live? That's right. Did you come to my show at the Birchmere? Did not, no. All right, great.

All right. I think I have everything I know to make my decision. I'll be back in a moment. You missed a good show. That's all I'm saying. I'm sure we did. I know we did. If you want to make sure not to miss any of my future shows, just go to johnhodgman.com slash tour. Okay, good.

Okay. And so what kind of car do you drive, Michelle? It's a Honda Civic. Okay. But you don't drive it as often as Zeki. Is that true? That is true. Okay. What's the average length of these car rides, would you say, Zeki? Between four and seven hours. Okay. Each way. Sure. Yeah. Four and seven hours each way.

And how come you don't drive very much, Michelle? Because you know the driver gets to choose what's on the radio. I would not mind driving. There are certain conditions that I'm just less comfortable driving in than Zeki. That would include... Daytime, nighttime, twilight. I would say it's more like nighttime in a rainy environment or if it's pretty late at night. Those are times when I'd be less wanting to drive. Zeki, why are you always choosing rainstorms to start your road trips? late at night. Those are times when I'd be less, I'd be less wanting to drive.

Jackie, why are you always choosing rainstorms to start your road trips? That's, that's not entirely accurate. I think that in general, I'm just more comfortable and okay with driving. Whereas Michelle tends to be, I think, more anxious in general about driving. And she might dispute that, but I feel like that's the case. Like every husband in the world, you think you're better at it than your wife. I don't think I'm better at it. I think I'm more content while doing it. You understand that it's not that she is nervous and anxious as a driver.

It's that you are nervous and anxious as a passenger. I think it's both. Because you are out of control. Because your life is in the hands of someone else whom I think you probably don't fully trust with your Honda Civic. And also, you know that if she's sitting in that chair, she gets to play all her Urdu jams. Is it that you don't like the Urdu music intrinsically, or you find it distracting while driving specifically? No, I love world music. I love Arabic music. I love Urdu music. It's just that, like I said, it's a matter of concentration for me.

If there's back-to-back songs in languages I don't understand, it's hard for me to focus. And so my mind starts drifting, and then the car starts drifting. How many times have you been in a near accident because you were listening to Arabic music? I don't know. I think it's happened, almost happened. I mean, that's the thing is I usually will. How many times? Zero.

You picked the right answer, actually, because if you had said even one time, I would say you don't get to drive anymore. Because you cannot tolerate even the most basic distractions. Well, it's actually, it's like the opposite of distraction. It's like, it lulls me into a sense of, you know, diminished awareness, I guess. Now, did I specifically request that you submit playlists or did anyone from the Judge John Hodgman home office suggest this? Yes. I, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay.

home office suggest this? Yes. I, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay. Well, then I feel a little,

a little bad then about this next part where I and Jesse are going to go through your playlists and make fun of your choices. Zeki, when you go on one of your epic car rides and you, and you load up your 24 page playlist, I presume you hit it on shuffle. You don't listen to it alphabetically by artist as is being presented to me. That's right.

I do. The first thing I notice is that you listen to a lot of cool bands. Right. Thank you. That I haven't heard of. That's how I know they're cool. Then you get into, then you got some, you got a lot of Cat Stevens on here. That's, that's troubling to me. Now you get into, then you got some, you got a lot of Cat Stevens on here. That's,

that's troubling to me. Now you're all over the map. You got some, you got some coconut records. That's Jason Schwartzman's band. That's good. Credence Clearwater Revival. Cause you're planning to be a weird dad someday.

You do have some novelty songs on here though. You have, well, I won't, they're real musicians. So I don't want to call them novelty songs. But you have funny songs. Flight of the Conchords, good. You've got Garfunkel and Oates, good.

You have some Weird Al down here at the bottom. Yeah, you've got quite a bit of Weird Al. Angry White Boy Polka, twice, apparently. white boy polka twice apparently so but i don't see in terms of in terms of funny songs or arguably novelty songs i don't see any jonathan colton on here yeah in terms of simply good songs i don't see any jonathan colton on here i don't see i don't see any john roderick of the long winters on here i don't see any mountain goats on here i don't see any gene gray i don't see any mountain goats on here i don't see any jean gray i don't see any of our various guest bailiffs slash expert witnesses of from the music world on here so in the interim since we first submitted this and today my my playlist has expanded considerably to include all those artists that you just mentioned oh really yeah what about artists that are going to be at bow

party dot biz like auntie ballas what about them what about artists that are going to be at bowparty.biz like Antipolis what about them what about Lake you got Lake I will yeah alright good you got two Jack Johnsons to counteract her one Jason Mraz those ancient enemies

alright and Michelle let's see what you got here you have you have it listed i you have it listed it's hard to say you have three categories song artist and language is this a list that you created just for this program, or do you always organize your music listening by language? I definitely created it for the podcast because I didn't have my own playlist. Right. But I do in my head probably think of things in terms of what language it's in. I like all your songs here, and you got the hits. You got Mambo Italiano by Rosemary Clooney. I'll drive to that. I'll drive to that for sure. You got, you got some of the soundtrack from The Wiz. You're missing You Can't Win from The Wiz, which to my, for my money is the most underrated michael jackson song of all time

such a great song uh at last by etta james yeah this is a this is a good wedding reception list i like it just get people on the we'll get people on the floor no diggity by black street crazy in love you know and what i like about it is it's a little on the nose. I'm not a music connoisseur, you understand. I'm not trying to make... I like all these songs. It's good. You're a connoisseur pronouncing connoisseur. Exactly.

Exactly. I'm saying this is the music that I understand except for the music that I don't understand which is all this music in Hindi or Urdu and Arabic, which I am now, I'm inclined to take a listen to these things. But for the most part, it seems like you guys have pretty good taste.

And Zeki, you just are, you're throwing everything at this car ride. Yeah, and that's why I think that there's something in there for everybody. I mean, it goes from like Cat Stevens to Kanye West, so I feel like Michelle shouldn't feel like I'm forcing her on kindness. You sounded like a promo for a terrible radio station. From Cat Stevens, Cat Stevens

to Kanye West, Kanye West. But Zeki does have things on his playlist that are not only repetitive in that we listen to the same playlist even though he has a considerable number of songs we still hear them a lot but there's also things on there that i just really really dislike and that includes kanye so but i have i have no problem skipping any song anytime she wants to skip a song i have no problem doing that um but i've always made that clear you make the case that this is more than just about what songs you like versus what songs she likes that this is this is a special playlist that you have created

in order to drive better explain what you mean yeah so i mean the way that i vibe to music is if there are songs that i please don't ever say i vibe to music don't ever say the way that i that i listen to music yes um is that or when i'm driving specifically i like to listen to music that i that i know that i know words to, that I know the contours of, so that I can sing along, so that I can get in a good space. I don't know how to explain it other than it helps me concentrate on driving when I'm listening to something that's familiar and comfortable. Do you sing along to all of these songs? Let me put it this way. When you're driving, what percentage of songs do you

sing along to either all or part of the song i would say it's in the upper 80s that's all right that's that seems like it's probably a fair assessment except except that because you're you're acknowledging how weird it is by by pointing out that it's in the upper 80% of the time you are singing along to the song while your wife is staring out the window, reconsidering the choices in her life. Michelle, would you say it is more or less frequent than 85% to 90% of the time that, that Zeki is singing along during the, during the car drive. I don't think he's at least in front of me. I don't think he sings along quite that much.

And the reason is because Michelle herself is a singer. So a lot of times I feel self-conscious about singing along. Oh, so when you're alone, you'll sing along a hundred percent of the time, a hundred percent of the time. But when she's in the car, you're not a total monster. You will refrain from singing along also because she's a better singer than you.

Yeah. And it's not just a better singer than me. She's actually a singer, whereas I am not. Is that your profession, Michelle, as a singer? For a lot of my life, it was. It's not right now. What do you do now? I work in policy in D.C. on humanitarian policy.

That's a classic career track. Well, the nice thing about your playlist, Zeki, being in alphabetical by artist is that right at the top is take on me by aha. alphabetical by artist is that right at the top is take on me by aha so um i'm i'm willing to dispense with all with all further deliberations if you can nail it right now you'll take this thing home i can't do that just the chorus I'll count you in 1, 2, 3, 4 take on me

take on me take me on take on me meow meow here we go. This is you. You didn't win. But you get substantial points for trying. Thank you.

You don't want to take on me when it comes to take on me. I don't. That's right. Let don't want to take on me when it comes to take on me. I don't. That's right. Let's get back to... So is there something specific about this playlist that makes it extra effective for driving? Would you not listen to these songs when you were, say, walking or taking the bus? No. I mean, that's the thing is i'm just trying to understand why it's imperative that why there is a an imperative that you listen to your songs and not hers while you are driving

i i don't know how to explain it except it's just the fact that they're songs that i know and that therefore makes me comfortable um and yeah i don't just listen to it when i'm driving it's it's like my playlist i don't I'm not organized enough to have separate playlists for different moods or whatever. I sort of lump everything together into one big playlist, no matter where I am. That's what I like to listen to. Okay. So these are just the songs that you know, so that you aren't forced to expand your horizons while driving and risk going off the road. risk going off the road. Right. And it's specifically over long trips. I love exposing myself to new music

and I respect Michelle's tastes and I love also hearing new music through her. And a lot of times when we're on short trips or when we're just driving around town, I totally love to hear what she has to do. And when we're driving on trips as well, like I said,

I don't mind listening to two or three songs at a time. It's about maintaining your driver's flow state. That's right. I've got to say, you know, that doesn't not make sense to me because, you know, when I'm driving, and particularly long car trips, there's stuff that I like to listen to. And I don't like to listen to it because it's my favorite song. I like to listen to it. Often it's not a song. Like for me to be in flow state while I'm driving, I like to listen to talk radio. It drives my wife insane, you know? And I remember one time in particular, there was one time we were driving from, from Massachusetts back to New York. And it was some years ago now,

probably 15 years ago. And I managed to tune in a show that I didn't realize was still on the air, which is a talk. I think it was called talk back with Bob Larson. Bob Larson was a,ist radio talk show host who believed very strongly in demonic possession and exorcism. And he was constantly interviewing people. He was part of what they call the satanic panic of the 90s, where it became this hysterical consensus among the media that there are satanic cults operating in secret in every preschool throughout America. And Bob Larson was riding the satanic panic to raiding heights. And I was listening to that. I can even see it happen. We were driving through Springfield right by the old Basketball Hall of Fame.

And I tuned this in. I'm like, I can't believe this guy's still on the air. And I listened to that show for as long as my AM receiver could grab it. It was the greatest driving experience. In many ways, every time I drive, I'm still chasing that bob larson dragon i still want that back and i down downloading archives and stuff like his conversations with the satanist boyd rice it's just not the same as hearing it live but i don't know am and on the radio too do you know what i mean on the real radio on the am but i i've, but I've never been able to pick it up again. But that's how I would drive every day if I could, but it would drive my wife insane. Michelle, is it true that you would petition to listen to some language tapes in the car?

I would see language tapes. I read that somewhere. I would see language tapes. That's something I do when I'm by myself. I would look at that as an extreme if I were to subject Zeki to listening to or do lessons or Chinese lessons. There's a lot of things that I would love to listen to by myself. Talk radio is one of them, NPR. But they're things that I wouldn't necessarily make Zeki listen to. Well. Well. Well.

What major offense did she do by making you listen to one thing once? What was it? What was the problem? No, it's just like this is like a perennial argument, and it usually comes up after the trip you know we're not even in the car and she'll say things like well you know i wish i could listen to things like urdu lessons or chinese lessons and i think it's in all seriousness um i think i think that she would like us to be able to listen to those things yeah but she said but so but she's never made you do it.

No, but her point is she's afraid to even – she says – and this is part of the problem is that she says that she's afraid to even ask to be able to listen to her things, which I don't find fair because from my perspective, if she asked to listen to things, of course I would say, sure, go ahead. I would say, sure, go ahead. Sometimes she just gets upset because she feels like I'm forcing my stuff on her. I'm forcing my music on her. And she, and she just, and because she's afraid of questioning me, she won't even suggest things. And so she'll bring it up later and say, hey, I wish I could listen to this. I wish you could have listened to, you know, language tapes or whatever. And that's why it's frustrating for me because of course if she asked i would totally love to listen to a couple songs at a time or a couple maybe like 30 seconds of a language tape or something of course if she of course if she asked i would totally not indulge her in any way i don't understand i don't understand why she's afraid to ask. Of course, if she asked, I would totally express contempt for her decision to put on language tapes.

Zeki, it is so kind of you to offer to listen to her music for as many as two songs or to learn with her for as many as 30 seconds. In fact, it's so kind of you that the president, Barack Obama, has asked me to give you this medal of service. Congratulations on being the most loving boyfriend in the world. Husband, I thought. Husband, excuse me. Forgive me. Okay.

Let's stop beating up on Zeki for a second. No, I would just say that there's a difference between. Oh, do you want to keep the language? Do you want to keep beating up on yourself? Is that what's going on? He's vibing on beating up himself.

This is my flow state. I'm with you. I'm with you i'm with i'm with you playing a language tape on a road trip is a big ask that's a big ask i'm on your side there but if you're trying to prove what a loving husband you are i would not make the argument. It's like, I don't get it. I just play whatever I want.

If she's got a problem with it, she can pipe up, but then she doesn't. So it's on her. If she has to play a language tape, I might say yes for 30 seconds. Like that's not, you got to sound better than that,

dude. I was kidding about the language. Because that obviously I think she herself said is also an extreme. Yeah, I know. But when it comes to songs. You know what? You know what? This is my stereo system.

Okay. I'm putting you on pause now. Putting you on pause. I'm going to play Michelle's playlist now for a little while. Can you handle it? This is for my flow. For my flow state. This is what I need to do.

I'm switching the station for a moment. Michelle. Yes. Why don't you wear headphones in the car? So for my flow state, this is what I need to do. I'm switching the station for a moment. Michelle? Yes. Why don't you wear headphones in the car? Because obviously, Zeki doesn't want to let you into the little world that he's creating in his Civic. So why don't you just listen to your own thing on headphones? Well, I actually once or twice have done that, but it feels very mean because we really enjoy spending time together. And it really, it seems like I'm blocking him out if I do that. And I guess that was my intention

the few times that that happened when I was mad. Well, do you, here's the thing though, Zeki says that you often will end a car trip or have done where you say, I wish I could have listened to this. And then he feels like, I wish you had said something about it. And now you're telling me that you have put on headphones to send a nonverbal message that he's being a jerk. Do you have problems communicating and asserting what you want in the moment? Or do you have to play these little games? I wouldn't say that's a total characterization of the way we communicate.

I think it's more that there's a pattern of rejection where you heard him himself say that if he basically gets sick of my song after I play one, and this happens over and over again, at a certain point, I just, I guess, assume that he's going to reject it. So it doesn't really seem to make sense for me to suggest things that I think he's just going to find, you know, unreasonable and that are going to make him upset when he's driving. And so I feel that by me picking a song that I know is in another language, for example, it would almost be like I'm being aggressive with him. And I don't, I don't want to do that. You want to have a nice time in the car? You want to have a nice time in the car? Yes. Is it impossible? Let me ask you, just out of, is it impossible for you to have a nice time in the car listening to his music exclusively?

No. Like, if you were just going to go all the way, and I were to find it in his favor favor and you're just going to take a deep breath and go, I get it. It's important to you. We're going to listen to your Jack Johnson songs. I'll put Jason Mraz on the back burner and I'll just and it'll be fine. Are you are you is that a huge would that be a huge sacrifice for you? I think the reason it would is because it feels so uneven. It would feel as if my interests are not important.

And it's the percentage. It's kind of if 100% is him and 0% is me, the inequality of it really bothers me. Are you hearing this, Zeki, or are you currently jiving to your cat, Stevens? No, I am. And I'm not asking for 100% control all the time. Like I said before, I just 99.999%. Just a fair. What if you opened with one song of every six.

Does that mean she plays one song, you play five? Or does that mean she plays one song, you play six? Yeah, I think that's what he meant. He said one out of six or seven. I'll meet in the middle. So that's right. So that's right so so right so that's uh that's 16 17

representation of the song of the of the time listening would be her song good her song every six songs she gets to get in a song 17 70 of the time she gets to play a song. I'm working really hard to subtract 17 from 100. 83. You would have 83% control. 83% dictatorial. Not dictatorial. You would control 83% of all songs listened to in the car while you were driving. Is that justice?

And if so, why? Zeki. No, I mean, I am willing to go back and forth to negotiate a compromise. I think it's more about what the default is. Most humans would define justice as being 50 50 no but i don't i don't think that's fair i think all right so this is what i don't think right say why that's not fair i think because the person who's driving should have the the prerogative or should i mean i think it should be a tip towards the person who's driving

um and and say why and say why and say why either then that's it makes me happier why is that so because i don't disagree with i don't disagree with you i think i've been ruled on this before in a docket clearing and and i'm trying and i'm trying to ascertain for myself why that is why my gut feeling is that's true so So explain to me why 50-50 isn't fair. If you're driving, you should control more than 50%, if not 100%, some range in there of the music. Why? Why? I would say, what I would say is that the person who is driving, I think that their comfort to a certain extent is sort of overrides the other comfort because, but no,

just not, not in terms of absolutes. Say it. You don't want to, you don't want to kill your wife. Exactly. If you listen to, if you listen to an Urdu tape,

you're going to be like, I can't take it anymore. And you're going to drive off a bridge. I think that's right. I think that the state of mind of the person driving is the most important. It should be the pure state of mind. Music helps you to stay alert. It helps you to stay focused.

I don't want to make your argument for you, but you're not leaving me many choices. No, I think that's how I opened it, too. I said, I think that's kind of what I meant when I said vibe with the music. It helps me focus. It helps me stay alert. Why did you have to go there again? Why did you have to go back to vibe? I gave you flow state.

Yeah, exactly. So it puts me in a flow state where I feel like I can concentrate. I feel like I'm comfortable. I'm less prone to anxiety, less prone to road rage or getting upset at other drivers, which I think ultimately is better for all of us when we're driving on the car. I think it gives a more stable driving experience, and that benefits everybody that's in the car. driving experience and that benefits everybody that's in the car. And I presume that you would offer the same consideration to Michelle if you ever allowed her to drive. Absolutely. A hundred percent.

Do you split up these road trips? Like let's say you go on a seven hour road trip. Do you drive a hundred percent of the time? I think that's usually the case. Okay. That's fine. That's an answer. Michelle, do you, 100% of the time? I think that's usually the case. Maybe I'll ask for it. Okay, that's fine. That's an answer. Michelle, do you dispute that?

No, I don't. Okay. Does his argument that the person driving should have more control than half of what is played on the stereo meaningful to you or, or not? It is. Um, because I also wouldn't ask for 50%, uh, when he's driving. I think the reason for me is that I can do other things. If he's driving, I could, you know, use my smartphone. I can do

something else for his, he can't. Um, so I do see that there should be the preponderance is the driver. I just think that the current situation is unequal. Right. Okay. And I would, and I would drive more. In fact, usually when we are about to go on a long road road trip, I offer to drive,

especially at the beginning. I say like, I can, I can start and drive for a few hours, but then he just says, no, it's like, no,

I like driving. It's fine. And then it just ends up being the same. Yeah. That's when he gets to, that's when he gets to drive to his tunes or vibe vibe i'm sorry i made a mistake i mean are you secretly buzz marketing the pontiac vibe a defunct car i would never never do that look i think I have everything I need to make my decision, but I have a quick one final question. Michelle. Yes.

Can you sing the chorus from take on me by. Oh no. Um, I don't really know. Take on me. That's how it starts. Hold on. Judge Hodgman, you didn't counter in.

You've got to counter in. All right. One, two, three, four You can do it in any key you want Okay Take a moment, get it in your head I would recommend doing it in the key of vibe Take on me

I don't actually know this song Take me on. Take on me. I'll be gone. Do that part. I think that's the words. I'll be gone. You lose too.

Come on, you guys. I don't know the song. This should be in your, you don't know, take on me by aha. Fine. I've heard everything I need. Jesse, drive me to my drive-thru chambers. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Michelle, how are you feeling about your chances in this case? Michelle how are you feeling about your chances in this case I think that I don't think he'll rule completely for Zeki I think he'll give a compromise and I think that's what I've been hoping for this whole time is that there's just more of my interest represented so I'm hoping that's what happens are you at all concerned that you married a monster

no Zeki's the nicest person I've ever met. So that's why this is even more funny. I'm going to look at this list. Here's the thing. I hear you saying that he's a nice guy, but then I'm looking at his list and I'm seeing an Asher Roth song. And that's really, I mean, you got to have a lot of Black Keys songs on your playlist

to cancel out one Asher Roth song. And I do, right? You have a fair amount. Got some Enya on here. That'll get you in the groove state. A little Enya going. that'll get you in the groove state. Oh, and you're going, uh,

Zeki, how, how are you feeling about your shot? I'm feeling good. I just hope that my perspective was clear enough that I do not want totalitarian control over the musical list. Um, all I want is that, um, Michelle, I want to be able to give her the opportunity to listen to her music.

And I just want her to be able to speak up more and like some kind of clear direction on how that should play out, some kind of formula maybe. And so in that sense, I think that's pretty reasonable. And I think that that, you know, that should shine through. Which of these would you say is your favorite artist of all time? Modest Yahoo, Matchbox 20, or Macy Gray? And I'm going to actually modify that. Your favorite artist of all time whose name starts with the letter M,

because all I had to do was look at the M section to find those three artists. That's a really tough. Probably Macy Gray for pure entertainment value. You know what? Macy Gray's all right. I feel bad for making fun of Macy Gray. Nothing really wrong with Macy Gray. I'm glad she stuck it out for all these years.

Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this case when we come back in just a second. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel.

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And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans?

Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in.

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remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th visit made in cookware.com that's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom first of all i really nailed take on me right then i'm really happy about that you sang like a beautiful angel, Judge Hodgman. Yeah. I don't always hit that note when I'm doing it, and I'm really glad I did. And I just want everyone to know, Mark McConville will sign an affidavit.

It was not edited or auto-tuned in any way. And I would sing that in the car loud, but by myself. I wouldn't inflict that on anyone else. It's true that you make a little world in a car when you're driving, especially long distance. Create a little world around yourself because driving is meditative. Because driving is meditative. And when you're going for long distances, you do go into a rhythmic kind of flow state where if you're driving safely, you're obviously you're alert. You're feeling the rhythm of the drivers around you, gauging them, checking your mirrors regularly.

You're keeping distance between you and the person in front of you. And music is an important part of creating that world in the same way that music can enhance exercise or meditation. The right music will help you get into that flow state until you forget that there is reality, and then you drive into the medium. No, don't do that. And for that reason, I do feel on a gut level, level and have said before that the person controlling the car should decide the audio environment but does that mean when i'm driving the car i should only

play recordings of the 1940s radio comedy the aldrich family because Because my wife... It means you should only listen to Fibber McGee and Molly. No. I highly disagree. You didn't know we were going to go down this road, guys, but I'm going to tell you something. I know that Fibber McGee and Molly is legendary comedy, but it is not for me. I'm an Aldrich

family man. But I know how much it enrages my wife. It is to my wife as Urdu language tapes is to Zeki. Unbearable. And I realized that I, when I say that the driver should control the stereo, I'd never been confronted with someone who is so profoundly selfish as Zeki.

Not selfish in the bad way, in that you are considerate of your wife's cultural and musical desires 17% of the time. But you are using your control of the stereo, your rightful control of the stereo as a bludgeon such that she is a feared to even suggest things like language tapes. And, and I don't know what else she wants to listen to weird recordings of spy

number stations, by the way, that makes for some good driving music. So it's a responsibility to have control of the stereo, and you don't want to hog it, the stereo. Do people say that anymore? What would you say? Not the radio. Stereo?

The car stereo? What do you say, Jesse? Yeah, I would say the stereo, even though it's I now have like, you know, you got like six or eight speakers in your car. Right. But I don't think unless unless your car stereo has to have DVD audio, I think it's probably what you're listening to is probably mixed in stereo. Right. You shouldn't hog the Quadra Finia or the Optio or whatever it is. Because on some level, it violates an equally valid and persuasive principle, which is a road trip is something you do with other people. When you're by yourself, you listen to whatever you want.

You sing at the top of your lungs. whatever you want, you sing at the top of your lungs. When you go on a road trip with another person, particularly if it's your wife before you have children, you're enjoying a transformative journey of discovery with someone you care about. That's what a road trip is. Transformative journey of discovery that occurs over time and multiple landscapes in a small moving canister that contains all your smells. It means adjusting to each other and sharing the sound system.

And so I do feel that you make a powerful argument, or at least I made one for you, Zeki, about why it is important, I think, for the driver to, if not control, at least have veto power. Because if something, if music is put on that is distracting or interrupting your ability to concentrate, whether that's an Arabic language tape, although I don't know that you've even tried that yet, you might find that to be perfect. Who knows?

Or something that just isn't vibing with you or any U2 song. You have the right to say, no, I can't. No, I just can't hack this. I got to put on something else. Veto power for sure. But I think 83% control, the one to six ratio is way off i think that's way off i'm gonna say um as a baseline 65 70 i mean i'm gonna give you that extra five and by the way you're not selfish you're a really nice guy i was just over dramatizing for effect this is what this is what the podcast animals want to hear. You know what I mean? Throw them the chum.

70, what did I say, 65? Let's say 66.666 repeating percent of the time as a baseline. So that means someone else, someone else do the math. Zeki, you do math, right? No. No, you don't. What's, well, that might, if you play a hundred songs. It's two thirds.

Two thirds. Thank you. Two thirds. Thank you. Two thirds. So, right. So, every nine songs, you play six, she plays three. That works. Six songs,

then three. Or, I can do this. Twelve songs. Oh, wait a minute. That doesn't work. Why don't I know math? I went to college. Well, you know, you figure it out.

12 songs would be eight and four. 12 songs would be eight and four. Thank you very much. So, and so on. Two thirds of the time, bass line. You may play all your favorite tunes and sing along, but then you got to release control a certain percentage of the time, which is a third of the time. And then she's got to play stuff that she also thinks she will enjoy, but that you will

enjoy too. Do you know what I mean? Like you guys are in this together. You want to be together. She doesn't want to put on earphones and listen to her thing. You're not at that stage of your marriage yet. Enjoy this time where you care about what each other thinks. And you preserve veto power.

Okay. If something, if something's just gone, sending you off the rails, but you have to, you have to exercise this, not arbitrarily, but truly like, this is something driving me crazy. And I think it's this music, you got to skip to the next song. You don't just take back to your playlist after that. That's fair. That's justice. See what I'm saying? But the real problem here isn't that you can't trust her with the radio. It's that you guys, that you're not driving enough, Michelle. in this car. And I wonder how comfortable you feel sitting in the passenger seat in the relationship. Because you got a lot of songs you need to listen to and you want to listen to all of them and you'll give her one every 10 or whatever. You got to surrender a little bit, dude.

You got to surrender. And Michelle, you got to step up and drive that car more often. If you say, I'm going to drive the first three hours. And he says, no, I feel like doing it. You say, then I'm driving the next three hours. Or whatever it is you want to do. Because that's the deal.

You get to choose. Two thirds of the time. And if you start doing that regularly, you're not even going to be counting the songs anymore. It'll go easy. But Michelle, you should drive more. This is not fun. When people don't trust each other's driving in a marriage,

it tends to go sour pretty quick. The whole marriage... What am I talking about? It goes sour pretty quick. The whole marriage either dissolves or you get into a car crash. It's better if you can both be passengers sometimes and each be a driver at certain times too, in a more balanced arrangement. Then the song thing works itself out easily. So I order you, Zeki, I find in your favor, but at a different ratio than you suggested. 66.666 repeating percent of the time, you get to choose the song.

You have veto power. You should feel satisfied with this judgment. But when Michelle says, I would like to drive, you say, okay, not, no, I feel like it. You have to surrender a little bit, a little bit. Michelle, can you sing anything in Urdu or Arabic? Yes, she can. Sing, sing, sing, play, play, play us out, Arabic singing cat. Oh, God.

Okay. Okay, this is a song that Zeki's family likes. I'll just do a little bit of it. Here, I'll set you up. And this one goes out to Zeki's family in Northern Virginia. It's Michelle with song name Unknown. Shanti Shanti Shanti

Shanti Shanti Well, that's going on my mixtape because I'm... Jesse, I vibed. Did you vibe? Dude, I'm still vibing right now. That was amazing. Dude, Michelle, Zeki. Listening to recorded music. You have music living inside your body.

That was amazing. Zeki, how are you feeling about the decision in this case? I feel content. I think it's a fair judgment. I just hope that when Michelle asks to drive, I want her to actually want to drive instead of just offering, um, because she thinks it's, uh, the nice thing to do. Michelle, how are you feeling? I hope that Zeki believes me when I asked to drive. And I also, I guess I have a question.

I'm hoping that the passenger also has veto power because I think that there will be times when, for example, if I was driving and I did want to listen to a language tape that Zeki might want to veto it and vice versa, because there might be some Kanye songs he wants to play that I would like to veto. And I'm fine with that as the driver. Well, I'm not the passenger doesn't have veto power.

That's not the point. Driver has veto power. The passenger can say, I really don't want to listen to this anymore. And the driver will turn to his beautiful wife or her beautiful husband and say, I understand. Let's move on to another song. But that's different from veto. Zeki, Michelle, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. It was great to have you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need

a laugh and you're on the go, S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh, we are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Oh, yeah. This one goes out to all of Zeki's family in Northern Virginia. It's called the Docket. I'd like to see you

as a sort of Mel Torme type. Um, the Velvet Fog? Sure. Here's a case from Mark. I seek an order from my wife to either A, watch the series Breaking Bad, or B, stop asking about what happens in it. I've watched the show from beginning to end. However, my wife stopped after two episodes, saying it was violent and disturbing.

She wants to know what happened to the characters, but won't watch the series. She has no problem watching Game of Thrones, which has lots of violence and gore, but won't watch Breaking Bad for the same reasons. Judge Hodgman, should she watch the series or stop asking about it? No, your dumb wife doesn't deserve to know what happened to those made-up people. She didn't earn it! She didn't earn it! She didn't earn it. She's worse than you.

I was being sarcastic. I made a deal with my wife. She wanted me to watch Friday Night Lights, which I know is a good TV show, but it is about football. So I had no natural inclination to want to watch it. She was saying, you're going to love this. And I said, I will watch it if you read the first book of Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin, whom I will be performing in the presence of on June 2nd in Santa Fe. And she said, okay. I'm like, you don't have to read Game of Thrones, but just acknowledge I don't have to watch Friday Night Lights.

If you happen to read Game of Thrones and like it or not like it, I'll watch the show. I make that deal with you. Otherwise, I'm going to go about my business. And she tried to read Game of Thrones, and she didn't like it. And I don't blame her. It's not for everybody. Not everything's for everybody.

But everyone's on me to watch Friday Night Lights because I was mean to my wife. And because it's a great show about football. And if you know of any way you could press my anger buttons harder than say, you should like it. It's about football. Oh, but you know, you should really watch the show about football because it's not just about football. Like, I get it.

I get it. It's a good show. Who has ever pitched Friday Night Lights as being a good show to watch because it's about football? Well, the point is, I feel like Friday Night Lights has zero fans who like football. I don't. I don't dislike. I don't. No, it's everyone saying, you know, it's not really about football.

It's enough about football for me to say, I got other things that I want to spend my time on. Now, there's one thing. I don't dislike sports. I hate the cultural imperative that you should like sports. It's not everything is for everyone. Anyway, so I made this deal with my wife and I never watch Friday Night Lights. And I don't know what it has to do with this guy's docket thing. It's about TV, I guess.

I just need to get that off my chest. thing. It's about TV, I guess. I just need to get that off my chest. But the thing is, I think that you is within your rights, I guess, to withhold information about Breaking Bad in the hope that she might someday enjoy the whole

thing with the surprises intact and in some way try to blackmail her into liking the thing that you like in the same way I tried to blackmail my wife into liking the thing that you like in the same way I tried to blackmail my wife into liking the thing that I like, but it didn't, my blackmail didn't work. And I bet yours won't work either. So you could keep it up, uh, and you're within your rights to do it, but know that you're being a jerk and be comfortable with it. Uh, so we get a lot of letters like this one, and this one is an example that our producer, Julia, has chosen.

This is from Paul. No better nor worse than any of the many, many letters we got on this subject making more or less this argument. Go ahead. During the episode The Waiting Game, you said that Bill Murray's character, Venkman from the movie Ghostbusters had no significant motivation to be a Ghostbuster. I submit that Venkman's motivation is clearly defined through the very plot of the film.

Peter Venkman is essentially a lovable con artist. The movie opens with Venkman performing a fraudulent ESP experiment to try and get a date. He's then expelled from Columbia by Dean Yeager, who tells him, you seem to regard science as some kind of dodge or hustle.

Venkman is a natural scientific talent, but uses his talents to manipulate people into giving him what he wants. Convincing Ray to put another mortgage on his inherited family home to create a business busting ghosts is just Venkman's latest scheme. All right, I'm going to deal with this once and for all. I love Bill Murray and I love Ghostbusters, but you're wrong. All of you. My whole point was that I went back to watch Ghostbusters. My whole point was that when I went back to watch Ghostbusters,

I realized, oh, this is a different movie than I remember. I mean, I remembered enjoying it, and I enjoyed it again. But I hadn't seen it for a long time, and I realized, with the benefit of some time and familiarity with the material, that it has some funny lines, I guess some jokes, arguably. And it has a plot. But what's amazing about Ghostbusters and I stress amazing both in the sense of

I was amazed and very happy by the fact that it runs on pure charm the plot character motivation the jokes there are barely jokes

in that movie it's funny and great because of the charm of the actors and very much all of them, but very much Bill Murray. It's powered by an energy that doesn't exist, like a proton pack, you guys. And one of the things that it doesn't do, which is surprising in the context of how movies are structured and written today, is that Venkman is a mystery. Yes, he is a lovable opportunist, and he is a womanizer, and he is a money chaser, and those

things are established. And I saw the first scene of Ghostbusters, you guys. I know that thing where he's doing the ESP test on the dude, and he's buzzing. He's giving him an electric shock, but letting the girl think that she has ESP so that can go out let's say to have dinner with her later and it's one of the most brilliant moments of comedy when the dude starts predicting the cards correctly and he still he still gives him an electric shock as though he's getting the getting the card wrong that's a beautiful moment of character for him but it doesn't explain why he bothered to get a PhD at whatever his field is so that he could teach at Columbia. If he's a lovable con artist, that takes work, years of work that he had to have done in earnestness at some point. You can be a lovable con man and not have

a PhD. A lot of them do. And maybe that's the explanation. Maybe he doesn't really have a PhD. A lot of them do. And maybe that's the explanation. Maybe he doesn't really have a PhD. Maybe he is what you call a natural scientist, which you made up out of thin air. There's no evidence in the movie that he's a natural scientist. You're making up a backstory for him because there isn't one that exists. No one of you has given me any satisfactory answer as to why he is in the field of paranormal research,

what his opinion is of the supernatural, how it changes it all, or why he's even friends with those other two dudes. Because there isn't an answer, and that's okay. That's what I like about the movie. Ghostbusters is a Marx Brothers movie, right? Bill Murray is Groucho. Remus is Harpo, the sort of weird one that you don't quite understand.

And Ackroyd is kind of a Chico. Uh, he, he's, he's not, he's not on the make the way Chico is, but, but, but he, he fills that role as the mediator between the Groucho's super smart scheming and Harpo's weird otherworldly childlike aspect. And the movie even has its own Zeppo, Ernie Hudson, that poor guy who comes in to do very little in the movie, but is also charming. And the Marx Brothers, in all their movies, they weren't playing characters. They didn't have characters. They were themselves all the time. They had some base wants, food, ladies, monies, that shifted as the story required it.

And that was fine, because it was light, and it was beguiling. And these characters were simply pure chaos that was loosed into this world. And that's what the Ghostbusters were, except in New York City in the early 1980s. Venkman not having a motivation isn't a bug, it's a feature. Despite what every screenplay writing course will tell you, there's more than one kind of movie. There's more than the Joseph Campbell monomyth. Not every story needs to follow the same pattern and rules. And Ghostbusters is proof that we enjoy things, even if we can't quite break them down to their constituent parts and say, oh, this works because of this, because of this, because of this. You could have had a story about some line that reveals that Bill Murray had believed in this stuff at one point, but had then become disillusioned.

And I bet you a screenplay writing teacher would tell you to do that today. And it could work or it could not work. But it would never occur to you that it might not be necessary. Just let it be what it is, which is there is no answer. So there. Stop it with the letters about Peter Venkman, you guys. We're on the same team. Team Murray all the way. Yeah, let's go watch Quick Change.

Quick Change! In what world would Bill Murray be a bank robber anyway? That's not the point. Remember, what is it? What the hell kind of clown are you and then Bill Murray says crying on the inside kind I guess so wonderful

so wonderful okay our show is produced by Julia Smith and edited by Mark McConville you should submit your cases to us either by email hodgman at maximumfund.org, or just go to our easy-to-use form at maximumfund.org slash jjho. Our thanks this week to the person who named our case,

and that person's name is Sarah Bourassa. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. And I apologize for mispronouncing your name, almost certainly. If you want to name one of our cases, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. And hey, guess what? Tickets are still available for BoatParty.biz, so bring your family, have an awesome summer vacation

with me and some awesome comedians and amazing musicians and all kinds of cool stuff. Let's go to the Bahamas and, you know, check out some flying fish. That kind of stuff. I saw flying fish on the last boat party and it was wild. Dude, flying fish are awesome. I had never seen. You know what?

I suddenly understood why they call them flying fish. Yeah. They really get some air and stay up there. How does that even benefit them? It's amazing. flying fish. Yeah. They really get some air and stay up there. What? How does that even benefit them? It's amazing. They eat surface bugs, I think. Do they really?

I think that's what they're doing. They're like, go ahead. I'm not going to compete with you other fish. Go ahead. Eat your submerged plankton and junk. I'm getting out of here. I'm going to eat my own food up top. And they did it.

They grew those wings. They jumped. I thought they would jump, but they really catch air. They stay up there for a while. Fish. I checked out some sweet barracudas, too. Yeah. I was on boat party last year.

That's the thing. You go to the Bahamas. It's a vacation to the, too. Yeah. I was on Boat Party last year. That's the thing. You go to the Bahamas. It's a vacation to the Bahamas. Right. Let's not forget what this really is. A vacation to the Bahamas on a crazy floating hotel full of all your friends and some of the greatest performers that you have never seen before or will ever see again on a boat together. BoatParty.biz. With unlimited food.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Bye bye. That is all. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.