Judge John Hodgman - Bench Warrant

Episode Date: February 6, 2013

Should a couple sit on the same side of the booth while brunching, or will Judge Hodgman mandate a great divide?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the bench warrant. Dimitri brings the case against his boyfriend Landon. When brunching at their neighborhood diner, Dimitri would like Landon to sit next to him on the same side of the booth. Landon says that this kind of PDA is over the top. Dimitri thinks Landon worries too much about what others will think. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. You laugh, Jesse, but the people were wonderful, you know? Not just the actors, but the crew, everyone. There must have been 200 people, each with a specific function, but all dedicated to a single purpose. It was like a village or like a living

thing. And you know, I'm talking to the director and he says, why don't you jump in? And I said, wait a minute, jump into what exactly? He says, jump into the scene, walk through it, walk through community. Well, before I can react, this girl takes me by the hand and she stands me in this office where Danny Pudi and the actors are doing their scene. And the girl says, now when you hear action, I want you to walk from here to there, right? And that's when I really started to panic, Jesse, because if I'm a person that watches community, how can I be in community, you know?

And the more I start thinking about it, the less of it makes any sense at all. And I just want to turn and run, but it's too late because the director's calling action. So before I take my first step into the office, I realize I have to stop being someone who's ever seen the show and become a character on the show, become a man from community. You know, someone born in community, someone whose name I decide is Dr. David Heide. And I take my first step as a child mite, learning to walk as Dr. David Heide.

And with each step, it becomes easier. And with each step, I start remembering things from Dr. David Heide's life, like his first kiss under the big tree at community field, playing soccer at community junior high, finding my first chest hair in the shower, my first apartment, my first true love, falling for my best friend, birthdays, weddings, car crashes, taxes, playing charades at Thanksgiving. birthdays, weddings, car crashes, taxes, playing charades at Thanksgiving. Dr. David Heide had lived, Jesse, you know. Dr. David Heide had lived more than John Hodgman. And then they called cut, and the scene was over. But I wasn't ready to stop being Dr. David Heide, so I said to the director, can we have one more take? But they were already moving on. Danny Pudi had nailed it.

My lips started trembling, and my hands and my feet went numb and my knees buckled. And as I fell to the floor, I pooped my pants. I did because the truth is, Jesse, I had been Dr. David Heide and Dr. David Heide was dead. But as Judge John Hodgman, I was still alive. So swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he eats only while seated in his dining throne? I do. I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. You may be seated for the moment in separate chairs. You are not allowed to sit in the courtroom booth until we determine whether you will sit across from each other or next to each other in the booth setting. Plus, we have to save that in case any celebrities come in and they don't have a reservation.

Yeah, that's why we have the little Dickie reserved sign on it. Sometimes we get a stop and chomp from Diana Ross, which is what it's called when a celebrity stops in without a reservation. I thought it was a stop slash chomp. Yeah, stop and chomp or stop slash chomp. It's a regional variation. That's right. West of the Mississippi, east of the Mississippi. Or the mighty Mississippi.

But listen, Dimitri Landon, for an immediate summary judgment, I'm going to ask you a series of questions. First of all, can you name the specific piece of popular culture that I paraphrased as I walked into the courtroom? The television show community. Who was speaking? Landon. Landon? Yes. Dimitri, would you have, Landon, you know Dimitri, you two are in a relationship?

Yes, we are. Right. So would Dimitri have also gotten that? Possibly. All right. Well, he didn't jump in, did he? No. Landon, what episode specifically? in, did he? No. Landon. Yes. What episode specifically?

Oh, I don't remember. This is the episode where you pretended to be a psychologist in order to trick everybody into thinking that the dean had that the fake dean was the real dean. Nice try, Dimitri. Dean had that the fake Dean was the real Dean. Nice try, Dimitri. But you are only apparently you don't watch this show. You are only half wrong and only half right. Because as this is a reference to the piece of popular culture known as community, it can only be a multivalent 10 pop culture reference, deep reference in honor of community itself. Therefore it is a reference both to the episode in which I like the fraud.

I am strolled into the not background, but foreground of a scene as well. It is a reference to the second season episode entitled what? Right. Critical Film Studies, in which Jeff and Abed have dinner together. And Abed makes this long, amazing monologue. I don't think you would say make a monologue. Delivers this long, amazing monologue, I don't think you would say make a monologue, delivers this long, amazing monologue. And by Abed, I really should say the actor Danny Pudi, who's amazing in this moment,

regarding his fraudulent appearance in the background of what television show? Do you remember? No, you don't. Answer is Cougar Town. And then it is revealed that the entire conversation is Abed's attempt to recreate most of what famous film? My Dinner with Andre. All right. You got that one correct. Who spoke right then? Dimitri. Dimitri. Dimitri. So you both got it half wrong.

And you both got it half right. But I mentioned this particular piece of popular culture because they are dining together. And they are seated in this scene in what? A booth. And do you think they are seated across from each other or next to each other? Across. Aha! Another trick question. It was a semicircular booth.

So in the Meebus strip of booth construction, they were both sitting across from each other and next to each other. And I think they were probably seated that way in order to get good shots of the two of them together. Normal people eat in booths that way, but I digress. Dimitri,

you bring the case forward. You and Landon eat in diners all the time in order to reenact scenes from Pulp Fiction, I presume. And the Suzanne Vega song Tom's Diner. Nice. Which is named for what actual place in New York City? Oh, it's Tom's Diner. No.

Yes, it is. It's on the northeast corner of 112th and Broadway. And what is it called? Tom's Restaurant. Oh. Don't play these games with me. Don't play these games with me. Don't play these games with me, Dimitri. Semantically burned. Suzanne Vega got it wrong, and I'm not going to blame you for her sin, but I love her.

As long as it's not Monk's Cafe. So, all right. References within references. You may have heard in the background I just got an email from the internet saying too many references. All right, Demetri, what is the same place that we can walk to because we rebel against Los Angeles. And we have an ongoing argument when we go there and we're given a booth as to whether we should be sitting on the same side of the booth or whether we should be sitting on opposite sides of the booth. And you are in favor of sitting on the same side? I believe we should sit on the same side of the booth because I believe that is a traditional way that couples sit when they are in booths and diners. And I believe that it's a way of us showing off that we like each other that much. And we like other people to know that we are a couple and hanging out as a couple.

Showing off. Landon, is Dimitri a show-off? A little bit. Trying to validate a relationship by sitting on the same side of the booth. Yeah. Why do you not want to sit on the same side of the booth as your gentleman caller friend. I say that because when Dimitri wrote in initially, this is what, Dimitri, correct me if I'm wrong, this is what you wrote. Me and my boyfriend would bring this dispute, we are both gentlemen. That sounds like Dimitri.

This is true. I love saying that, but I am confused because how can a gentleman be writing this email that begins, me and my boyfriend? Why don't you want to sit next to your boyfriend? It's silly. I feel a very immature way to show signs of affection. I think that PDA is something that should be said for, you know, smaller groups of people or, you know, when you're home. It's not a public thing.

It just makes me feel awkward and it makes me nervous. Not that anybody's, like, staring. Like, I'm not worried about what people think about me. But at the same time, I don't, you know, what? It's a safety thing i i can't grasp hold of how uncomfortable it is to have to like prove that you're dating somebody by sitting on the same side of their of the booth with them i don't think it's appropriate i have a question for you when you're talking about public display of affection is there more to it than just sitting like does Dimitri insist that you sit on the same side of the booth and then just – and constantly play with each other's hair, like, while you eat?

No, it's – I think it's just sitting there because I'm still iffy about – you know, any PDA is kind of weird with me. And how does that make you feel, Dimitri? weird with me. And how does that make you feel, Dimitri? Well, when all PDA was off the table, that made me feel much worse. Landon, to his credit, has really evolved on this. He can speak for himself. But when we started dating, we were very much at his insistence, not, uh, doing any kind of PDA at this point. And we, we certainly don't make out in public, but we, we hold hands when appropriate walking down the street.

Uh, and let me interrupt you. Let me interrupt you, please. Yeah. Are you, are you saying that Landon prohibited the holding of hands in public? In initially?

Yes. Or how long have you guys been dating? Uh, a little over nine months. And what was the list of prohibited actions? The other prohibited action was the peck on the cheek or whatever form of peck when sort of meeting, you know, when you first greet each other, if that happens to be, say, in front of a restaurant when you're about to have a date. I would imagine also looking for knits. Yes, grooming is one of the ways that social cohesion is built up among humans. Landon, why did you prohibit these things?

It's just a... And did you do so in writing? It's uncomfortable. It's just a sick feeling. I've grown up and I've had to live lives where that was not okay at all. I mean, I'm a war veteran. So anytime in the military, that was, you know, I was during the time when it was no-go. You know, and I lived in the South for, you know, many years of my adolescence. And that was a no-go, you know.

God will get you. And I came to L.A., and everything's a go. Well, first of all— You know, it's a push. It's, you know, getting into the social normal, you know, normalties. Is that a word? Normalties. Yes, that's a word that we have just invented, the two of us together. Oh, so you served in what branch of the military?

Air Force. Thank you for your service. Thank you. Where did you serve, if I may ask? I was in Grand Forks, North Dakota. I did not realize we were at war with North Dakota. And I was stationed in Iraq, a little bit outside of Nazaria. Good heavens. When?

Right when the war started, so like 04, so March of, or February of 04 till June, July of that year. And what is your age? I'm 29 now. Well, I'm glad you're back, and thank you for your service. Thank you. But that was obviously a time

when you could not, you absolutely could not hold hands with your fellow airmen, correct? Correct. And I don't mean to pry, but did you have any relationships while you were on active duty overseas? Absolutely. Absolutely. Overseas, in the States, yes.

But it wasn't, you know, it was very hush-hush and very, you know. I would imagine so. And what would you – and from your point of view on the ground, as it were, or in the air, if you were found out, what would happen to you? Oh, if I had been discovered in the service, there would be an investigation and computers would be taken away and investigated and all for who you're banging. It's really weird that way but they would have done i was just curious if if it were a situation where in in practice you know people would look the other way or say you know what stop or would it be an immediate investigation and practically immediate i mean it's very military is kind of like you know kind of 1950. It's very militaristic in a lot of ways.

But it's, you know, at some point, you know. Kind of regimented, if you will. I don't want to like bad the military. They're a great organization. They just have, you know, a long time to get over some old feelings. And now I am glad and I presume that you are glad as well that the policy has changed. Absolutely. And that you may now serve as an openly gay person.

Correct? Correct. All right. Well, Dimitri, it sounds as though Landon has reason to be – well, he's got some stuff to get over. He has some stuff to get over, but I think that it is time to get over. I don't think that we submit to these things. I think actually, while it's certainly a greater version, I think any- Let me just stop you there.

Which branch of the military did you serve in and in which war? I served in neither, in no branch and in no war. Oh, OK. So what are you getting over? I think every gay gentleman, you know, at some point, you know, spends a period of their life closeted in a period of their life thinking that everything's going to crumble around them. If someone finds out that they're gay and for some of of us, that's real. And for some of us, it's not. You know, I certainly, my first boyfriend, when it sort of came out that we had a relationship, his parents cut him off and he actually had to drop out of college and never finished college as a result of that.

So, I mean, we all, I think, not all, but many of us have. I think Landon's family is going to be fine. Is that true, Landon? Yes. And where do you live now? In what neighborhood of Los Angeles? Actually, right outside of Silver Lake called Virgil Village. Why are they always making up new neighborhoods in Los Angeles?

There is no village there. I've made this point as well. It may be run by a guide to hell. If you were to issue a sub-ruling that he has to call himself living in Silver Lake, I would approve as well because that's what I believe. Because that's going to improve your home value? Indeed. Is Virgil Village like a village? Is it like Colonial Williamsburg?

If Colonial Williamsburg had a bunch of bodegas on it, yeah, totally. Is Colonial Williamsburg, that's a neighborhood right outside Williamsburg, Brooklyn, right? If so, then yes. But Landon, do you feel that you would face opprobium, which is the opposite of approbation, I think? Right. Do you think people would look at you twice if you guys sat on the same side of the booth? Yes, because I do.

And I know that I would do that. I'm not scolding anyone for doing it or anything, and I'm not thinking bad thoughts. I just think, oh, okay, they're doing that annoying thing. Right, and not because it would be a gay couple. Would you feel the same way about a hetero couple? Yeah. What would happen if you saw a couple with one milkshake and two straws? Would you just flip the heck out?

You've overdone it. No, I don't know. What if you accidentally watch the play Our Town? flip the heck out? You've overdone it! No, I didn't. I don't know. What if you accidentally watched the play Our Town? I think Jesse raises a really good point, which is that I almost recused myself from this because

I am with you, Landon. I do not like to see people sitting on the same side of a booth. This is not practical either. Okay. Well, I'd be curious. I just think it's, no offense, Dimitri, show off. Because here's what I see whenever I go into a diner.

When I see two people sitting on the same side of the booth, they are usually an older hetero couple. They're usually an older hetero couple, and they are probably on their second or third marriage, or maybe they've gotten past some marriages or are enjoying two separate trial separations. And they are really happy to be having waffles together at 2 a.m. And it's usually a bad scene, as far as I can tell, because when you sit on the same side of the booth, you are that much closer to feeding one another and that may not be tolerable. Well, I think we could reclaim sitting on the sage side of the booth and make it something a little more pleasing to look at and a little less gross. Wait a minute. Are you saying – Reinvent something out of something that's kind of old school. I see.

I see. I see. So what's going to happen is you gays are going to move into the side of the booth and start gentrifying it and reclaiming it. That's right. Like you do every neighborhood. That side of the booth is going to be way more valuable and the lawns are going to be cut and the color scheme is going to get better. Right.

You're going to make it so older, sad, hetero couples who've got a little road on them can't sit on the same side of the booth and eat waffles and make lovey-dovey eyes at them anymore because it's too expensive. Yeah, but if they bought that side of the booth years ago, they're going to get a windfall and they're going to love us. Yeah, but those people ride motorcycles. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, they did not invest well. They're going to be mad. They're going to be like, oh, God, gay people do it now. We can't do that.

Yeah, they've got – It's too gay. Oh, so if you – They've been allowed to marry for a long time. Therefore, they have divorces and alimony to pay. They probably have child support. Do you know what I mean? They're like two motorcycles, no income.

That's them. Do you know what I'm saying? I think what you're saying, though, is that if you mandated that gays had to sit on the same side of the booth, then eventually heteros would stop doing it and you wouldn't have to see those couples sitting on the same side of the booth anymore. Look, I act as though I have something against these older couples, these older hetero couples who are rediscovering love in their lives.

I really do wish them the best. But I do find it to be, Dimitri, frankly, a little bit like, look at me. You know what I'm saying? Like, just have your breakfast. I had not thought, Dimitri, I'm reserving judgment here, but I'm just letting you know where I stand and what you need to convince me of. So before you go ahead and make your case fully, I want to go back to Landon for a second, who raised an interesting point,

which I had not thought of, that it is impractical, that there is a functional lack of practicality to this arrangement. Landon, explain this to me, because I hadn't thought about it. You're not going to talk to somebody like face to face, turning your neck and just sitting there constantly looking to your right. Or do you do you talk forward? Dimitri, when you talk forward when you eat, do you not make eye contact? Or is there? I think Landon, wouldn't you get a crick in your neck after a while? I think Landon's argument is honestly facetious, – I think Landon – Wouldn't you get a crick in your neck after a while? Yeah. I think Landon's argument is honestly facetious because I think he and I have managed to talk facing the same direction in a car and in other venues and I would also

point – we've sat at counters next to each other and it was perfectly practical. I think that he's really attacking the diner counter as a practical way of eating. And I would also point out that we sit next to each other when at the kitchen table at home. That is our default way of sitting when we eat. Ah, because again, we're not in public anymore. So I get to sit next to you. Like I said. He gets to sit next to me because he wants to sit next to me. First of all, let's establish a couple of things. I'm going to explain now that I'm not going to consider the counter argument

because the counter is an issue. That is an arrangement of sheer convenience. You would only sit at the counter because some other jerks are hogging all the booths. Right. Yes, this is true. Sitting at the counter is the worst. Sitting in a car, there is no other option.

Therefore, of course, you adapt. Sitting at home, you raise an interesting point, Dimitri. Is it true, Landon, that you will sit side by side to eat food at home? Yeah, I get close to them. We haven't seen each other all day, so we save it for a private moment where it's just us two at the dinner table and we eat and talk about our day. Watch something on the iPad. something on the iPad. So you have just invalidated a whole argument because you are willing to do lateral dining, right? In a private environment. So all of your practical, I have to agree with Dimitri, all of your practical arguments, as compelling as I found them to be, are thrown out the window because you're happy to sit there and endure a crick in the neck. And you have also acknowledged that sitting side by side is, by your own definition, more intimate than sitting across from each other.

Because you choose to do it at home because you like to be nearer to Dimitri than not. You might have made an argument that sitting across the table, well, I'm going to save that for my ruling. You may notice, Dimitri, that Landon has essentially perjured himself. Yes. I don't know whether to believe him anymore in anything. So why should I compel? But in one area, he remains consistent, which is that it makes him personally uncomfortable to sit in what he acknowledges is a more intimate style on the same side of the booth because he is in public. So why should I compel him to do something that makes him uncomfortable?

Well, these are the same arguments that were raised with respect to holding hands or the peck on the cheek earlier. And he tried them and we tried them a few times. And eventually, I think he would agree that he became comfortable. You become comfortable when you try things out and you try them out a few times until you realize, oh, my anticipation of this was – my anticipated discomfort was far greater than the actual discomfort which evaporates with practice. But unlike holding hands and a peck on the cheek, which are universally accepted signs of affection, sitting on the same side of the booth is neutral compared to just the two of you dining together,

perhaps even holding hands over the table. If anything, sitting on the side of the booth is an unusual arrangement, at least in my experience, and one that you know that I find personally offensive. Well, I don't think it is unusual. And we've had conversations with the servers at this particular diner who we've become friendly with since we've been going there since this diner has opened very regularly. And they don't describe it as an unusual. going there since this diner has opened very regularly. And they don't describe it as an unusual.

It's not the majority of couples, but a substantial minority do sit on the side of the booth, generally heterosexual couples. And so I don't think it's unusual. It's not the majority practice. Yes, but she equally reaffirmed my opinion that it's silly. And she says only about, what, 37%? She came up with an obscure number of like one-third sit on the same side of the booth. This is the waitress at the diner? Mm-hmm.

Or the restaurant? How would you describe the restaurant without naming it or buzz marketing it? A diner, the word coffee shop is in the name, but it's more of a diner. All right. You tried to sneak the name in. I get it. I didn't say the name. Go on, say it.

Sunset Junction Coffee Shop. Sunset Junction Coffee Shop, because I may need to, depending on how I rule, send my Baker Street Irregulars to go and spy on you there and see what happens. There's no worry that they're going to pin it down with the name Sunset Junction Coffee Shop. Sunset Junction is an area of Los Angeles populated exclusively by coffee shops. There are over 500 coffee businesses in a three-block strip of Sunset Boulevard in Sunset Junction. The rest are vintage clothing stores. Is it one of a portfolio of luxury Sunset Junction coffee shops featured only at the village at virgil village

uh so you spoke to the weight the the weight uh staff person the the waitress i guess you said that it was a woman yes all right so you spoke to the waitress at sunset junction coffee shop of virgil village or wherever and she said she said 37% of couples dined on the same side of the booth? Yes. All right. And obviously, these are couples that are in love, because if you were just pals sitting on the same side of the booth, that would be beyond weird. Right. Of course. And you mentioned that most of them were heterosexual couples. Yes. One time I did notice a same-sex couple sitting on the same side at the counter when Landon wasn't there, even though there were many seats.

In that instance, though, one of the members of the couple was holding the leash of the other. I'm sorry. It should be noted this is also across the street from a weather shop. Is that what we would call that? Is this something else that you would like? No. Neither one of us is interested in this. And what does it matter that hetero couples are doing it more often? Do you have something to prove?

This was an argument that I think helped convince Landon, for instance, that hand-holding was something I felt strongly about, which is that I do think it's a very good idea and a responsibility for gay gentlemen and gay ladies as they become more comfortable to be open about their relationships so that if there's, you know, a 13-year-old kid, a 14-year-old kid who is either, you know, questioning their own sexuality and wondering if this is accepted around them or is questioning whether they're going to be a jerk and a bully, kind of noticing that this is sort of normal. And these, you know, people are just kind of acting the way they would if they were a heterosexual couple. And when you only see heterosexual couples sitting on the same side of the booth and never gay couples, I think that matters. So you're going to be the ones who show through your role modeling to the 14-year-old kid who comes into the coffee shop across from the leather shop in Silverwood that it's okay to explore

your sexuality. That's your job. And someday you can be like us. That's your stance. That's your post in the war. That's like fighting the Iraq war in North Dakota. Pretty safe.

Pretty safe. Where does it stop? Where does it stop, Dimitri? Or let me ask you this, Landon. Is this a slippery slope situation? Are you concerned that if I order you to sit on the same side of the booth, Dimitri is going to bully you?

Absolutely. Because it's only gotten bigger. Like, it started with hold-handing and then it came to kissing and now we're in the diner going to be sitting next to each other. I'm just next. We're going to be shopping at the leather bar across the street.

That's a pretty, pretty big step. I'm sure you guys are ready for it. We should start by having breakfast at the leather bar across the street and then move up from there. I think if we wind up at the leather shop across the street, it's going to have to be a very well lubed slippery slope. Brother. Brother. Sorry. Use talcum powder. So, alright, so, but

Dimitri, is there more that you would like out of your relationship? Why do you feel you need to push Landon along into uncomfortable places? What does it benefit? What is it benefiting your relationship? How's it benefiting him?

How's it benefiting your relationship? How's it benefiting your sense of it's so nice to be able to push this former soldier around. To be honest, I, it only comes up for me when it's something that is my natural instinct. It's the thing that I would naturally do. I would naturally reach to hold my boyfriend's hand on the street.

I would naturally greet my boyfriend with a peck on the cheek. I would not naturally take my boyfriend to a bar and just start making out with him at, you know, while surrounded by people. So the booth comes up because that's the natural thing that is my instinct, that I would sit on the same side. So I can't think of what the next step would be on the slippery slope. All right. And Landon, before I go into chambers to consider my ruling, is there anything you would like me to correct about Dimitri's behavior?

Dimitri's behavior? Dimitri's behavior? I'm just trying to think. If I rule in his favor, then there may be a compulsion to sit on the same side of the booth. If I rule in your favor without prejudice, that's a wrong thing to say in this context. prejudice that's a wrong thing to say in this context if i rule in your if i rule in your favor uh non-punitively then you guys would simply stay on opposite sides of the boots if i ruled in favor uh where it was i i determined that damages needed to be awarded to you i would force dimitri to do what serve in the air force just a short four-year term. No, I don't know. I would say not to push any more arguments. Just once the no states, he has a two-day,

there's a 48-hour holding before he can ask me to try anything else again. And are they- Period after the first, because he's, he has gotten me, you know, kind of comfortable with doing some things, but that one is just, it's, do you feel your life has been improved because you now hold hands and kiss

your boyfriend on the cheek when you greet or in outside? It's nice. It's, it's lovely. All right. And, and, uh,

you guys think, uh, I don't, I'm not suggesting that you propose right now, but are you guys going to stay together for a while? Yes. Yeah. All right.

I think I know everything I need to know. I'm going to go into my chambers and sit on my revolving bar stool and consider this while spinning around until I'm sick. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Dimitri, are you worried that your boyfriend is embarrassed of you? No, I'm sure of it. But for unrelated reasons, and I'm sure very good ones. Landon, are you embarrassed of him? Not at all.

I mean, if I were to go to a dinner with a girl, and she asked us to sit in the same set of booths I'd be like no you're crazy sit in front of me so we can talk I mean it's just not I don't know it just doesn't work that way to sit and eat next to each other like that Do you think you got a shot at winning this thing Landon?

Uh huh Yeah What would you like to see come out of this? I don't know, just less suggestions from Dimitri on how I should perceive every day as a gay man and let me figure it out. Dimitri, are you telling Landon how to live his life as a gay man? Less than I think is being suggested. Less than I think is being suggested, but Landon teaches me a lot about how to live my life as a gay man as well. So I'm glad of that.

It's give and take. This is a family podcast, guys. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Well, I think that you guys should stay together or at least give it a shot because you both seem like nice fellows and you guys obviously get along really well. And there is a lot of not fake marrying people, as I am constantly asked to do as a fake internet judge, I would happily fake marry you guys if that was what you wanted in your lives. And I think that one of the reasons that I feel so positively about your relationship is that it's clear – it's good when two people who are in love push each other a little bit. And whether or not it is an issue of being more comfortable being openly gay in public, or even just sort of being more demonstrative or facing emotions in any situation,

it is good to have a partner who kind of pushes you into an uncomfortable place and makes you reassess. And it is also good to have a partner who realizes it is good to be pushed a little bit and to allow yourself to be pushed, as indeed, Landon, you have been pushed. And now comes the hard test, because Dimitri is not only pushing you into an uncomfortable place for you, but also is pushing you into a behavior that I find, frankly, morally repellent. Sitting on the same side of the booth, no matter what your sexual orientation is. I cannot stand it. The very idea of it makes me feel hemmed in and uncomfortable. the very idea of it is makes me feel hemmed in and uncomfortable one of you is going to be sitting like on the inside like if it's a booth sticking out of a wall you're going to be stuck in there the amount of elbow like elbowing of each other's elbows do you know what i mean it's just intolerable

and you can't look at each other and the reality is why would you ever do it particularly if you wanted to experience intimacy because eyes are the window to the soul and if you can't see someone's eyes comfortably then what are you why are you even having a dinner together or lunch or brunch or whatever and the argument frankly that um that you brought up dimit, that most of the 37% of weirdos who go to this place to eat on the same side of the booth are heteros, to me suggests that you have something to prove,

that you are trying to show that a nice gay couple can sit on the same side of the booth as a bunch of hetero weirdos. But why? Hetero people do all kinds of things that no normal human would want to do they shop from the signals catalog they wear matching athletic uh uh sweatshirts and and and and and stretchy pants like no you don't

and i'm i'm talking about um elastic waistband pants like you don't you don't. I'm talking about elastic waistband pants. You don't have to do all that dumb stuff just because the heteros of Virgil Village are doing dumb stuff. So, you know, it really is quite a quandary. And I think that the fair solution, though, is that you are not only pushing – what's so interesting rhetorically about what you've done to me, Dimitri, is that you're not just pushing Landon into an uncomfortable place. You're pushing me into an uncomfortable place. And now you have caused me to question my judgment. Am I resisting finding in Landon's favor? Because he is obviously right.

finding in Landon's favor because he is obviously right. Because you've got this rhetorical thing. It's like, well, if you don't sit on the same side of the booth, you are, if you don't approve sitting on the same side of the booth, you have a problem. So since you have, since you have cornered me, as it were, to the inside booth position, now that I cannot even get up and use the bathroom if I want to.

I am going to try this out and find in favor of Dimitri. Merely because it makes me so uncomfortable. And it is good to be pushed every now and then. And here's the thing, though. What I'm going to do is I'm going to find in Dimitri's favor. Since Dimitri is asking only that Landon try this out, I think Landon should try it out three times. Three brunches over a period of two months.

I'm purposefully making the math really difficult. And Landon will agree to sit in this terrible way three times. And at the end of three times, I think that's reasonable reason enough time to try it out. And the first time are the, are the booths against the wall guys? Yes. All right.

So the first time Landon is in the inside position, second time, Dimitri is in the inside position against the wall, guys? Yes. All right. So the first time, Landon is in the inside position. Second time, Dimitri is in the inside position. Third time. No, do you know what? I take it back. All three times, Dimitri's in the inside position. That's my reaction. And then at the end of the third time, the next time Dimitri suggests it, Landon can say yes or no, as he likes,

and it shall never be brought up again. I'm just thinking about it. Booths are creations that are one of the stranger creations in creation because on the one hand, they are the most perfect thing in the world. And then when there are two people on the same side, they are the most perfect thing in the world. And then when there are two people on the same side, they become the finest instrument of torture.

That said, I stand by my judgment. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Dimitri, are you satisfied with this ruling? I'm very satisfied. It was a very equitable decision, and I'm very proud that Judge Hodgman made it, given his personal feelings on the matter. I'm boothed and I'm proud. Landon, are you comfortable with this?

I think I'm going to get hives from being so nervous. But yeah, I'm good with it. We'll do three. I've been hard on things. If I may jump back in here just for a second. I got to say, Landon, you come out of this the best. Because here's the thing that makes me feel that I've made the right decision. The fact that it truly speaks to some phobia, such that you are afraid of a physical, weird response to this arrangement, me feel like yeah you know what why don't

you get over there and see what it's like and get over that thing because otherwise you know the fact that this that this dude is calling uh you a coward for not sitting on the same side of the booth when you have been to war that would be on town would be uh it would be it would be an affront to all that is decent and good in the world. But the fact that you acknowledge that it makes you feel hinky means get over there, give it a try, and then after you've mastered that fear, you can go back over and eat like a normal person. Thank you.

And we're not just being charitable because we think you can probably kill us. Dimitri Landon, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in.

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Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day. From the 18th until the 27th, visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com.

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but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. Teachers and faculty, this is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie,

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

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Thank you. I am frankly too dizzy and sick from spinning on my counterstool to enjoy it at this moment. But when you have a moment, will you feed it to me by filling up the straw and holding your finger over the top and then letting it drip down into my mouth? Well, I did bring two straws. Are they both crazy straws? Yeah, of course. What other kind of straw would they be? But let's, not right now, Jesse, because we're not alone. Oh.

I've asked Landon and Dimitri, because they were so nice to come into the studio, to continue to be in the studio as we go through the docket because i do have here in chambers my my wonderful uh diner booth and uh where where are they seated right now uh right now they're seated in orange chairs here but um we could have them take a seat in the booth if you want yeah they can sit in the fictional booth but in non-fictional as we do the docket i would like them to hold hands. You'll just have to tell me that that's happening.

Okay. Yeah, they're doing it. It's a stretch, but they're doing it. Here's the first case on the docket from Catherine. While visiting my father this Christmas,

I was told that his dog likes having his elbows scratched. Gross. I was confused because I didn't think that dogs had elbows. I thought they had knees. My dad insists that because dogs' front legs Gross. This was that he used to know someone whose last name meant cat's elbows in German. So, please settle the score that Google cannot. Do dogs and cats have elbows?

I will answer that question as soon as I am done looking up on Babelfish what cat elbow is in German. Katzekrummer. Katzekrummer. Katelbo. Katzekrummer. Katzekrumer. Katze Krumer. Katze Krumer. Katze Krumer. Hello, I'm Judge John Katze Krumer. Oh, do I still have to answer their dumb question? Yeah, dogs have elbows. That's the answer. And you know how I know? The answer is dogs have elbows and knees.

And do you know how I know? Because I went right over to SkullsUnlimited.com and saw that they are selling both an osteological veterinary model of a canine knee, an average-sized dog knee with femur, fibula, patella, and tibia bones, lateral medial meniscus, anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments, plus six more ligaments and tendons for only $86. But also a similar osteological veterinary model of a canine elbow. The healthy left elbow of an average-sized dog, as it is described here.

So, yes. Yes, and the other thing that I noticed when doing the smallest amount of research online, which of course is dubious but is still true, that the front part, the part below the elbow of a dog's front leg is called a forearm. And I presume that is because at one point in their evolution, dogs stood upright and had arms. And played poker. So here's something from Angela. She writes in with an update to the Ipsolacto case. Do you remember the Ipsolacto case, Judge?

It was the ultimate decision was that Angela should eat American cheese slices. Yeah, this monstrous lady was slipping cheese into this dude's food when he didn't want to eat cheese. Yeah. Because she was trying to push him to be a better person who liked cheese and stop being ashamed of his cheese liking or something. But I sentenced her to eat. I said she was wrong, and I sentenced her to eat a bunch of pre-sliced yellow American cheese. Is that correct? That's correct.

Three slices specifically. Dear Judge Hodgman, over the holiday break, my family and I went to visit our friend Justin in Canandaigua, the cheese capital of the Finger Lakes region, and justice was indeed served. Please, Canandaiguans, do not send me corrections on the pronunciation of your cheese town. of your cheese town. The three slices of Kraft Singles were even harder to swallow than Defeat was, but I am happy to report that I was honest and open about the butter that I put into the root vegetable mash I made with dinner while I was there. Not to split hairs, but he did ask me more than once how much was in it. Justin also drank a glass of eggnog, ate some buttery root vegetables, consumed many Christmas cookies,

claiming ignorance that cookies are full of butter, and consumed enough half-and-half to drown a horse who had been swimming in an ocean of half-and-half. No chipped beef in the coffee this time around. Please find photographic evidence of my punishment for contempt of court attached. And we will post these both on the Facebook group and on the post at MaximumFun.org for this week's case. And, yeah, she is really unhappy about having to eat this, frankly, tasty Kraft American cheese single. Say what you will about its health benefits. American cheese does taste kind of good. Yeah, because it's pure salt and fat.

Yeah, it's not a complex flavor, but it's an enjoyable one. With just an under-palate of plastic wrapping. Yeah, sure. Well, thank you so much for your update to that Yeah, sure. Well, thank you so much for your update to that case, Angela. We're happy to hear that you had to suffer. Well, thank you guys again for sticking around and coming into the studio.

You may cease holding hands. Thank you. Hey, Judge Hodgman, by the way, you and I are both attending MaxFunCon. Actually, I've seen Dimitri at Max Fun Con in the past. Dimitri, did you enjoy it? I loved Max Fun Con. Okay, excellent. Good work.

We will let you out of the death box later. That's what we call our recording studio. Oh, I can tell. We've just announced the lineup for Max Fun Con this year, and there are a very small number of tickets left. If folks don't know, Max Fun Con is our annual convocation in the mountains of Southern California. It's a weekend where we have big comedy shows,

big parties, talks, lectures, classes. This year we are going to have some really amazing people, including but not limited to Elvis Mitchell. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, John goodness. Yeah. John Ronson. Maybe you've heard of him all the way from London, England, or technically New York where he's living right now.

Kyle Kinane, Matt Bronger, Morgan Murphy, Penn Ward, the creator of Adventure Time, is going to do some kind of elaborate human animation for which he asked that I acquire for him about a dozen superhero costumes. I have eight. I have eight. So we'll need four more. If you want to see the full lineup

and find out more about MaxFunCon, go to MaxFunCon.com. We just have, I think we've got about 20 tickets left. So hurry up, buy your ticket've got about 20 tickets left. So hurry up. Buy your ticket now if you want to come. It is one of the most wonderful things you could do with a weekend of your year. Jesse, can I come again? Yeah, you're coming.

Oh, good. You're going to be there. We're both going to be there, Ace. But when you make the reservation for me, will you make it? Will you make the reservation under my pseudonym, John Kotz Krummer. Yes, absolutely. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Kotz Krummer.