Judge John Hodgman - Better Call Parasol

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Abby files suit against her friend, Aidan. They belong to a secret online group dedicated to complaining about other passengers on the London Underground. One major debate? Umbrellas! Aidan says bringing an umbrella on the train is unacceptable. Abby disagrees. Who’s right? Who’s wrong?Thanks to reddit user u/KetchupLuv for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Check out the evidence from this week on our instagram!Judge John Hodgman’s Van Freaks Roadshow is on! Visit vanfreaksroadshow.com for ticket links, other dates, cities, and more information! And SUBMIT YOUR CASES along the tour route at maximumfun.org/jjho!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, better call parasol. Abby brings the case against her friend Aiden. They belong to a secret online group dedicated to complaining about other passengers on the London Underground. One major debate? Umbrellas. Aiden says bringing an umbrella on the train is unacceptable. Abby disagrees. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Will you take me across the channel? London Bridge is falling down.

the channel London Bridge is falling down strange a woman tries to save more than a man will try to drown and the world and a love like ours

my dear is best measured when it's down and I never buy umbrellas cause there's always one around Abby and Aiden

please rise no no I started again strangers talk only about the weather this is the new carol of thes in Cat Town.

It's the same. It's the same. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Come to our live show. Hear us sing. Abby and Aidan, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever.

I do. I do. Yeah. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever. I do. I do. Yeah. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he gets followed around by one of those little cartoon rain clouds? Yeah. I do. We do, yeah.

I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Abby and Aidan, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom? Abby, Aidan, were you at our Londonondon show by any chance actually yeah so you might have you might have you i'm sorry first of all i apologize we we wanted to have you on stage at our london show but the time the time gentlemen as they say in the public houses the time was too short for and so now we're so happy that you're able to join us here videophonically.

But you might have a slight advantage in guessing this particular obscure cultural reference. I was wondering whether there was a similarity there. Yeah. Well, so what's your guess, Abby? Well, is it Tom Waits? Is it Tom Waits? It is Tom Waits. I was going to guess Barbara Streisand.

I thought it was Barbara Streisand. It's not closing time, is was going to guess Barbra Streisand. I thought it was Barbra Streisand. It's not Closing Time, is it? Your guess is Closing Time. I'm writing that down. I'm literally writing it down. I'm showing it to you that I wrote it down. Good. Okay.

So that is a Tom Waits song. Now, Aidan, it goes to you. Do you think that Abby has guessed the correct Tom Waits song? I don't really have anything to add. I have one Tom Waits album that rarely gets an airing. Would you like to hear the song again? No. I'm just satisfied.

I'd really like to hear it again. I'll sing it for you later, Abby. I don't even really want to hear Tom Waits sing it myself. Now, you know what? All these podcasters and all these smarty pants is personal friends of mine. They shook me. They shook my faith in Tom Waits, one of my very, very favorite performing artists, songwriters, poets. They gave me a shakeup.

For years, they just tried to reprogram me and say, this guy's a big phony and he wears a pork pie hat and therefore he must never be listened to again but i'm taking it back i'm i'm i'm retaking the weights love him i should i should never have listened to those smarty pants as david reese's and tom sharpling's absolutely i wrote a nice song for solomon burke called always keep a diamond in your mind an incredible songwriter and obviously it was a bit extra, but it was nice that Solomon Burke sang it. Yeah, exactly. No one's going to Tom Waits for no extra. Anyway, Aidan, you say you have one Tom Waits album that rarely gets rotation.

Do you even know the name of the album? Swordfish Trombones. Swordfish Trombones. Well, I'll tell you what my favorite one by him that is closer than abby oh okay even though aiden your contempt for tom waits reminds me of certain people unfavorably abby's guess is it was further off wait space because closing time is from early Tom Waits. Yes.

When he still sounded relatively human. He didn't sound like Rolf the Dog from The Muppets. I think, by the way, I think there's overlap there. I have a theory that Jim Henson heard Tom Waits singing. Oh. Or vice versa, perhaps. singing. Or vice versa, perhaps. I think Tom Waits heard Tom Waits singing and decided to do an unflattering Tom Waits impression. Well, moving on without comment

on that. When Aidan gets Swordfish Trombone, Swordfish Trombones is kind of the turning point when Tom Waits went extra weird. A little extra weird. And started doing more stuff with his voice. And this song is actually called Strange Weather, and it was from the Big Time live album that came out after Frank's Wild Years, I believe. I don't know that album as well. Yeah, well, everyone should go out and check it out. If you want to have fun in your life, go Google Tom Waits, Martin Mull, Fred Willard, Fernwood Tonight.

Okay. And you're going to have a good time. You're going to have a good time on your video watching application. But in the meantime, as Rolf says, I hope that something better comes along. We've got a case. Abby, you bring the case against Aiden, but I'm going to ask Aiden right at the top. Because Aiden, you are anti-umbrella. I am.

What is your problem with umbrellas, Aidan? They are a nuisance, both on the street. To raindrops? They're a nuisance, a public nuisance, both on public transport and in general public. And they should never be used then? No. We have lots of technical fabrics now that we can keep us dry and in our clothing without needing an umbrella anymore. Your feeling

is we've outgrown umbrellas usefulness as a society? Yeah, I think we've evolved now. Interesting. All right. Abby, tell me about this secret online group. You don't just discuss people doing wrong things on underground trains, but all kinds of public transport. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, it's mainly because it's, it's sort of isn't just London based, but it's, I'd say the majority of the people in the group are sort of based in London. And so it's mainly a kind of great moaning opportunity for people who are sort of forced into using buses and underground during kind of rush hour and that kind of thing. But also it's an appreciation of the public transport system as well as a moaning opportunity.

So, yeah. I need to schedule some moaning opportunities, Jesse Thorne. Yeah. You know? It's nothing like it. I mean, like, how many moaning opportunities is it fair to schedule in a week? Seven? Yeah, I mean, well, the doctor says when you're sitting at your desk,

every hour you get up and take 60 seconds moaning opportunity. Oh, okay. I'll follow that. Just moan around the room, sit back down, get back to work. You can set a timer on your desk. You're Dr. British by any chance. We love a moan over here. No, no, we have to pay for our moaning opportunities.

In any case, you are friends with each other. Are you friends from this secret group? Actually, I mean, I think I might have met you a few times before. But yeah, I think we kind of are pretty much friends through the group because we didn't really know each other that well before. You know I love a secret society, Hodgman.substack.com. You know I love a secret society. Why is this group secret?

I don't know. Like, are the members known to each other or not known to each other? Are you trying to keep your moaning confidential or what's going on? Yeah, we're not secret from each other, unfortunately. It's by invitation only. It is, yeah. We only invite responsible friends or irresponsible friends to join the group. People that share our aims and values, let's say.

Judge Hodgman, in England, you have to be a member to moan after midnight. Otherwise, it's a lock-in, I believe. So, like, if you're sitting on a carriage on the Jubilee line or whatever, and across the way from you, you see, like, what's something that someone does wrong? So you see someone with an umbrella or something, Aidan,

and the person sitting next to the person with the umbrella looks completely disgusted, then you know you may have met a fellow traveler. Right. Exactly, exactly. Someone's put a wet umbrella on the seat. Right. That's a kind of revolting behavior.

I wouldn't agree with that. That's outrageous behavior. Putting a wet umbrella on the seat is obviously outrageous behavior. What are the things that people do wrong, Abby, on public transport that you moan about? Okay. Probably the two kind of main transgressions are outside seatism and bag on seatism. But there's also feet on seatism, which is terrible and never excusable. Man-spreading is another.

Of course. Obviously, we know about man-spreading. And what else is there? There's hogging the pole. You know, I can't remember what that's called now. Pole hogging. Where you basically hug the pole. You put your whole body against the pole.

Yeah, so you're kind of taking up most of the pole. People who leave who try and get on the train before others have left. Yes. Oh, right. Trying to enter the train before. You have to let the people off first. Yeah, exactly. When you can see the whole load of people trying to get off.

And then we've got escalator etiquette as well. Yeah, exactly. When you can see the whole load of people trying to get off. And then we've got escalator etiquette as well. Oh, yeah. Which is, you know, no offense to the overseas people in this podcast, but there's a strict, there's a very strict rule of standing on the right

on an escalator and walking down on the left. Yeah. And gaggle of people blocking an escalator when you want to walk up or down is a massive transgression. Right.

Yeah. No, we do have escalators in the United States, actually. Thank you very much. But do you have that rule? No, because why would we ever take an opportunity to walk anywhere or climb stairs? They're moving. So you're never in a hurry. I think I have that expectation.

I disagree. I have that expectation on an escalator for sure. Yeah, absolutely. People should stand on the right of an escalator so that people who want to move can climb the escalator or descend the escalator at their own speed or walk. But yes, it often doesn't happen. People don't. That is a bad thing. I have to say that these moans are much lower stakes than I expected. I expected this to be a group where someone said, like, I saw someone eating soup. Oh, yeah. No, that is.

That's absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they don't want to give us the good stuff, Jesse, because it's a secret group. You know what I mean? This is only for initiates. People do celebrate their direct action against these sort of travelers when they've got someone to move their bag. And they'll purposely seek out people that have put bags on seats and then get them to move the bag so they can sit down.

In a British sense, direct action means giving someone a withering enough glance that they eventually... A slight touch. A slight touch. So, Aidan, your position is there should be no umbrellas on public transport or in the world, right? They're just not necessary anymore and they're just dangerous to people. How have you ever been endangered by an umbrella? What, are you fighting the penguin? Poked in the eye by an umbrella.

Bashed in the head. Oh. You know, Jesse, I really was thinking about quoting Danny DeVito as the penguin in Batman Returns for the cultural reference. And there's some great lines, but just none of them were long enough. And you know I love a long cultural reference. Well, one of them just had me laughing, so I had forgotten about this point where he's in the middle of a battle, all these umbrellas in front of him,

and he picks one up to shoot it at Batman, and it, like, shoots a flower, and he goes, s***, I picked a cute one. Anyway. Abby, what is your position on Aiden's position regarding umbrellas why are we here um because it's it's uh not taking into account the fact that under certain circumstances you just can't keep dry without an umbrella a hood isn't enough and i'd say as a woman um who likes

to wear makeup and uh you know like to sort of dress up and go out, sometimes wearing a hood just isn't going to stop me looking like some kind of panda by the time I get to wherever I'm going. So there is no cultural difference here. A hood, we're just talking about a hood that you pull over from your jacket or whatever, pull over your head. Yeah. Right.

So the group who hate brollies or umbrellas are called the Hood Squad. Yes, the Hood Squad. I noted that here. And they have a term they use for people who carry umbrellas. Is that correct, Abby? Do you want me to say the full term or shall I? You may say the full term in the interest of justice. Brolly bastards, basically.

Brolly bastards. Brolly bastards. Wow. Yeah. yeah aiden you're in the hood squad i'm in the hood squad found a member yeah they're very smug have used the hateful term brawley bastard in the past frequently yes i see right so basically anyone using a brawley is a brawley bastard this attitude kind of evolved without much discussion um about two years into the group starting and yeah it's sort of like the majority view but there's no kind of discussion possible you know about you know possible nuance you know where you might actually use an umbrella considerately you know and not be a brolly bastard when i've tried to bring it up yeah on a number of occasions basically pretty much any time i see someone ranting about it it's

usually ignored generally or dismissed or basically i'm told that you know um that i'm wrong um or we post pictures of ourselves with our hoods up. Oh, yes. They're very smart. They're really smart. They're so self-righteous about it. Wait, you're saying the hood squad goes too hard and that sometimes they respond with just pictures of themselves wearing hoods? In the rain. Well, it's not so much responding to me.

You just do that in a sort of like, yeah, look at me. I'm doing the right thing, you know. How many hoods are in the hood squad, Aidan, if you had to guess? I'll give you a percentage of the total group rather than actual hard numbers. I'm sorry, I don't want you to reveal any of your precious secrets, including your membership numbers. 14. 14.

14 hoods in the hood squad? Aidan, let me ask you. Approximately. I mean, that's a quorum. That's enough to do some... It's true. Snapping in the rain. Synchronous snapping. I mean, that's a quorum. That's enough to do some. It's true. Snapping in the rain. Synchronous snapping.

I'm surprised it's that low, actually. Could be more. Yeah. But Aidan, my question to you is, can you lean into the camera a little bit? Mostly the top of your head, if you don't mind. It looks to me like your hair is cut fairly short. And do you often wear makeup? Not as frequently as I used to, no.

How do you, you see where I'm going with this. Abby, whose hair might be styled in a certain way, might be wearing makeup, might need extra protection from the dyeing spray and the drizzle and the wet that a hood cannot provide because it does not cover the face. And indeed, whatever her hairstyle might be, and the drizzle and the wet that a hood cannot provide because it does not cover the face.

And indeed, whatever her hairstyle might be, might be actively harmed by your precious hood. Insofar as it is applying pressure to the hair, as well as admitting moisture to the frontal forehead area. And below, yeah. I think she just needs a bigger hood. What, that covers my face? That's the hood squad solution to everything. When you're in the hood squad, every tool looks like a hood. Solving the problems with the National Health Service.

Bigger hoods. Yep. Aidan, in parts of the United States, particularly the Pacific Northwest, it is very rainy. And yet there is a point of pride to not use umbrellas there to go full hood squad, as it were. Is this true in London? How many umbrellas are we dealing with? And are the umbrellas on a decline or an incline? I think it's probably on a decline. Again, I think umbrellas are definitely evolving away from umbrellas with modern fabrics that can repel water and voluminous if necessary.

But, you know, I think, you know, people, there was a figure of the lost property on the London Underground, 8,000 left umbrellas last year. Such a waste of resources and environment for people just to discard them. You see them every time there's a bit of a storm. There's all these broken umbrellas sticking out of bins. Yeah, I'm sure they can be recycled. You're talking about trash umbrellas. But Jesse Thorne, does not England, particularly London, have a history of outfitting people with well-made umbrellas. But Jesse Thorne, does not England, particularly London, have a history of outfitting people with well-made umbrellas? I would argue that London, England is the world's most umbrella

city. It is also the home of the world's greatest umbrella store, James Smith & Sons, where you can still get a Huanji cane umbrella cut to size and custom made for your height and requirements. You can even get a silk canopy if you want. A silk canopy? Absolutely. Not canapé. What does it look like? I mean, it looks like an umbrella, but it's made of silk instead of nylon or whatever.

Wow. Is it more like a parasol for the sun? It fits for people who want to really enjoy a rainstorm and have a little bit of the water land on them. Some of the water go through their umbrella. Oh, those sort of people, yeah. Aidan, have you ever been to James Smith and Son's Umbrellas at Hazelwood House in London? I think I know where it is at the end of New Oxford Street, but I'd avoid it. I walk on the other side of the road to be passing.

I might not be able to control my emotions. Have the Hood Squad ever come through there with their direct action? We go into that store. Tutting. Yeah, tutting. Tutting everyone. Trying to take down 185 years of continuous operation at James Smith & Sons.

By rolling our eyes. Yeah. 1830, a Mr. Smith founded the now famous firm of James Smith & Sons Umbrellas, just off Regent Street in London's West End. The umbrellas were made in a small workshop in the back of the shop and then sold to customers at the front. This is the incredible history you're trying to erase, sir. Yeah, he's got no respect. Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Sorry. We'll be back in just a to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound.

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Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Abby, you have to admit that umbrellas are enjoyed only by the person who has the umbrella. And to everyone else, they are a threat of being poked in the eye absolutely yeah umbrellas are a terrible design or getting water dripped onto your shoulder from someone else's umbrella or kabanging against the umbrella you're trying to use kabanging yeah that's that's really annoying

yeah um yeah um i do totally agree they're a really terrible design but apparently people are constantly trying to they're applying for patents to sort of to improve the design, but for some reason, it just seems to stay kind of put. But I had provided in my evidence, I'd provided some photos of some of kind of newer designs. Yes, Abby, you did send us some photographic evidence. This, of course, will be available at the show page at MaximumFun.org and on our Instagram account, at Judge John Hodgman. These are some innovative umbrella schemes, I will say. I am going to describe the first one, which is a woman.

I think in 1989, looks like to me. I don't know. This seems like an older photo. In England, this is like 2007. Okay. I think it's Derek Smalls being stuck in his pod on Spinal Tap. Yes, she's walking around with like a boy in the bubble pod around her upper body. Yeah. And I'm not exactly sure how, is this mounted on her somehow? It's a rucksack. It's a backpack. Right. Oh, okay.

So it kind of like comes over like almost like a convertible kind of like. Oh, okay. So it's like a dome. Like a dome that pulls over. Over her head. Yeah. Like a kind of, one might say, Aidan, like a kind of mega hood. Exactly.

And the way that it's designed is such that when it's deployed in the rain, it forms almost a full sphere around her body. It's like she's being eaten by a transparent Pac-Man from above. Sternum to shoulder blade, I would say. Exactly so. And the way that it's designed, so when it's deployed, her upper body will stay dry while she is kabonking into everyone else in the world. And then when it turns sunny again, she can retract it and only kabonk people who are behind her. So she goes from full kabonking, full circle kabonking,

to just any time she turns around, she's hitting someone in the nose. Okay. So it's more fun when you're doing it full circle, really, isn't it? No, absolutely. It's like you're a living pinball. Where did you get this photo? Is this a product that I can buy? It actually is.

Although I don't know whether you actually can buy it anymore. It was around a few years ago, but not that many years ago. It's called the Newbrella. The Newbrella. Yeah. So it has varied reviews. I'm not saying that these are necessarily good designs, but they are people's attempt to solve the problem. The alternatives, yeah.

Yeah. Aidan, I will leave it to you to describe this brawly bastard in the next photo. Look at this bastard. Can you see? I'll show you the picture. Don't pretend you can't see. This is one of your

most hated enemies right here. This is what you're trying to stop, right, Aidan? Tell us about this creep. I'm not quite sure where to start here. There's a child with a hood and a visor. Being a child is no excuse. Which I quite

approve of the hood with a visor. It starts well at the top and then it rapidly goes downhill as the child seems to be what can only be described as a funnel, an upturned dinner plate about four times its body width.

Yeah. It's a partially transparent flying saucer from the neck down, and above that it's an adorable creature hood, It's an adorable creature hood plus an extended sort of elderly lady with a cold at the farmer's market face shield. Yeah, exactly. Like one of those rain hoods. I'm proof of the headwear. Holy.

Right. But the rest of this adorable child is pure bastard to you, right? Absolutely probably bro. You bastard. Look, it's difficult to do visual humor on a podcast, but this is an adorable little child who is wearing a very innovative rain protective gear that makes this adorable little child look like the head of a duck atop a UFO. Or it kind of looks like a dog cone, you know, like a cone you put around a dog's neck to keep it from biting its butt or whatever needs to happen. The cone of shame. The cone of shame. Yeah. Yes. But it's a cone of adorableness in this case, because it's going in the opposite

direction. It's not, if you wear a cone outside in the rain, like a dog cone, you're going to drown because the water is going to fill it up. This is, we're telling the water is going the other direction this is something that you could probably buy i think you can buy those actually yeah i mean i'm not 100 for those because they still don't actually shield the lower half of your face very well right i fully approve of the innovative hood design though with a peak well you i get it you like the hood part yes it's perfectly fine. I've just noticed something that strikes me as important, which is the name

of this rain prevention product that this child is wearing, which I think is a really apt name. It's called Children Raincoat, Children Umbrella, Boys Girls Raincoat Headwear. It really rolls off the tongue. You have the new umbrella on the one hand, and you have the children raincoat, children umbrella, boys,

girls, raincoat, headwear on the other hand. And what this evidence is proving to me, I don't know what your intention was sending it in, Abby, is that the umbrella, it's not going anywhere. Yeah. Your classic umbrella has not been improved upon in at least as long as James Smith has been smithing those brawlies. And all these new kids on the block, they are not successful. So the umbrella is sticking around. Yeah, I would question your assertion that it's an unfortunate piece of technology. I think umbrellas are really cool. I think they're really neat.

I think they're one of the most charming and useful machines that human beings have. They're really cool. You've got to admit, Aidan, that there is no charm to a hood. You know what I mean? As Jesse points out, this is a feat of human ingenuity. It is a contraption. There are probably fewer contraptions that are as contraptive as an umbrella. You go, and it opens up. It's a portable roof, Aidan. Infernal contraption that's a nuisance on the streets of London. Aidan, do you and the Hood Squad object to open umbrellas on public transportation,

or do you object to closed umbrellas as well? Well, open umbrellas as well? Well, open umbrellas would be an absolute horror. Yeah, I have to agree with you there. Of course. It's the wet, dripping umbrellas put on seats. Unlike their bone-dry hoods? I have photographic evidence that, unfortunately, I've not submitted to the court due to time constraints, but wet umbrellas being put on seats.

As opposed to wet people being put on seats. Well, it's different because you've got your legs and things are dry where you're sitting down. There may be a bit of residual water. You're right. Water goes upward. Not a dripping wet umbrella. It's just not not done let's be fair here aiden neither your precious hood nor the testament to uh human inventiveness the umbrella is going to keep your butt dry in the wind you are probably going to be sitting down and particularly if you're wearing a rain jacket that is repelling water rather than absorbing it, one of your vaunted new textiles, your back will probably be wet. And when you sit down,

you're going to get the back of that seat wet, aren't you, Aiden? Yes, possibly. Yes. Yeah. But if you have an umbrella and you use it properly on the train or the bus or what have you, and you close it and you give it a good shake. Now, the top half of your body is relatively dry. And if you just hold it, you know, between your legs, which are, by the way, your legs are, you know, your knees are close together because you're giving everyone the room they need to sit down. Exactly, yeah.

That's a responsible use of an umbrella on the train, wouldn't it be, Aidan? Yes. Unfortunately, as we've seen with multiple occasions, the public can't be trusted with decent and proper behavior on public transport, hence the beginnings of these groups. Yeah, but doesn't the group itself become a kind of an echo chamber, like a right-wing news organization convincing its audience that New York City is a burning hellhole by cherry-picking a few facts. All you talk about is people doing wrong things on the train.

And frankly, it seems to me like you're pretty, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to wrong things. Yeah, I'm six foot four. Of course, I'm an outside seat sitter. We celebrate sitting nicely as well, don't we? Yes. I think we'll concur, won't we, Abby, on that? But we do actually report good behavior and we do celebrate it as well, don't we? Yes. I think we'll concur, won't we, Abby, on that? But we do actually report good behavior and we do celebrate it as well.

It's not all about criticism of the public. No, it's not. It's about kind of enjoying driving the bus, either using the continental or the imperial position upstairs. Excuse me? It has to be upstairs if you're driving the bus. Oh, I like that a portion of this is celebrating sitting on the second floor of the bus in the front

and pretending you're driving it. That's fantastic. Yeah. That's quite a large portion of our post, isn't it? Okay. And the DLR, which is the driverless London train getting the, you know, usually shoving a small child out of the way and getting the driving seat on that too. And you can pretend you're in Blade Runner or something like that. Especially if they're wearing an outfit like that.

Wait, wait, wait. I don't know about this train. This is a driverless train. Yeah. First of all, I'm terrified. Yeah, it is actually quite scary. It's kind of like one of those monorails you get at the airports where, you know, it's got a couple of carriages or a few carriages. Oh, I see what you mean. Some sort of attendant. Right.

Who occasionally flips open a box. But there isn't an actual driver's, an empty driver's seat where you can sit. Yeah, no, there is. There is? Yeah, absolutely. The seats go right to the front and the window. So you can see there's two pairs of seats that face forward. But they just happen to of seats that face forward but they

just happen to be seats that are there it's not a situation where they have fake controls so that you can literally pretend you have to bring those yourself you can bring your own we bring our own to play with i really liked that um you know at the podcast festival that pretend oh yeah steering wheel pretend steering wheel yeah my heart right yeah judge hodgman every time i visit you in new york i pretend to taking of pelham 123 a subway car yeah well that's right because you know being a subway rider in new york by the way it's a terrific system gets you where you need to go i have fun on it but what the picture you're painting is a paradise compared to the world I'm living in,

where it's like, you know, I'm seeing people eat bowls of ranch dressing on the subway. Like, that's what's happening here. It's a little bit more provocative. People are picking lobsters out of their hair and throwing them on the ground. Yeah, it's like whole philharmonic orchestras will walk through playing the theme from Jaws. I like that part. That's fine. Point is, a lot of stuff's happening on the New York City subway. Your subway sounds boring. Sounds like you're ginning it up.

It's not. London dry ginning it up. Are you trying to start a fight? Yeah, I am. Because something has to happen. We're British. We're not prone to these sort of public displays of exuberance or narcissism. Well, only kind of late at night when we've had a few, or at Christmas time or the new year, you know.

When you're puking a curry on the upper deck of the night bus, that's when it all comes out literally. Yeah, it's disgusting. But sometimes you do get sort of like sing songs on the tube and things like that, you know. Yeah, New Year 1999. Yeah. Everyone was singing.

Take us back. 1999 by Prince in the tube carriage. It was cool. You were or everyone was? Everyone was. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's fun.

Yeah, it was fun. That's the fun part of living in a city is you're near other humans. The most fun part of living in a city, I always say, is one thing that happened 24 years ago. The fun part of living in a city is being near other humans and realizing it's fine and that humans of all different backgrounds can live together and pack themselves into a train peaceably.

And then just some people then go on the internet and complain about them. That's the worst that happens. Now, Aiden, Abby has established through her evidence, whether intentionally or not, that the umbrella, as we understand it, has existed for a long time. It cannot be replaced by any new umbrellas.

It's going to continue to exist for a long time to come. Perhaps it's on a decline. Perhaps it will be replaced by hoods over time, but it's not going anywhere. So your request that I outlaw umbrellas, frankly, is outside of my jurisdiction and my power. And yet there is still a dispute here. Abby, umbrellas aren't going anywhere. So why is Aidan in this courtroom? What's going on in your group that brings you here today? Okay. So numerous times I've tried to raise the issue that I raised to you and I get no response or it's just dismissed. But the issue about kind of that basically hoods don't sort of like protect you when you're dressed up or whatever.

You've dared to question the total efficacy of the hood by saying that an umbrella maybe suits your needs a little bit better in certain circumstances. In certain circumstances. I'm not sort of like saying all the time. And how does the hood squad respond? They usually either ignore me or they sort of just say, that's not true. The hoods protect your makeup fine. You don't need an umbrella. Or they just tell you that you're a Rolly bastard and, you know, you should be banned. Aidan, have you threatened as as a member of the Hood Squad,

to ban your friend from the group or the Earth for being a brawley bastard? I don't have any powers to ban the comrades from the group. But you make common cause with the Hood Squad. Would you agree that the Hood Squad goes too hard in the group? I think we have to take a firm line because it's... I we i did a poll recently actually and and i think it was about 90 percent yes yeah 90 percent in favor of the hoods yes can i just can i explain about this poll this yes so-called poll right let's unskew the poll basically he i did actually send in evidence um uh he uh put up poll that said, I've been thinking about umbrellas recently. I'd like everyone to fill out this poll.

Are you A, hood squad or B, are you a brolly bastard? Wow. So it was, you know, it wasn't really very neutral. There may have been a pejorative element to the questions. It was framed that way. You're saying 90% of the secret group chat voted Hood Squad? No, that's not

actually true. Well, numbers are numbers, Abby. Basically, about eight people voted Hood Squad and about three people actually owned up to being a brolly bastard, but most of us just didn't take part in it at all because it was just, I'm not going to call myself a brolly bastard because I'm not one. So yeah, it was a total

joke of a poll. 72% of the respondents, if those numbers are correct, are self-identify as Hood Squad. Yeah, but basically by taking part in the poll, you are admitting that you agreed with the whole premise, which I don't agree with. Yeah. Why would I partake in a poll in which to vote for Umbrella, I'd have to self-identify as a brawly bastard? You know. The question is somewhat leading. But here's the thing. It's easy to be mean on the Internet. Aidan, will you look Abby in the eye right now and call your friend a brawly bastard to her face?

Oh, like the record show, he did not hesitate to turn. Brawly bastard. He did it, but he was sort of giggling a bit and stuff. It wasn't very convincing. How did it make you feel to call your friend a brawly bastard to her face, Aidan? I think I might have called her worse things before. Yeah, I think that's true. How did it feel to be called a brawly bastard?

It was no worse than being called it constantly by people, my friends on the internet. And also he was kind of giggling in a slightly coy way, so it did slightly undermine the outrage I would have felt normally. But you would like him to stop this behavior. I would. I would really. In London, and probably other big cities,

it's a real thing to sort of behave as though you were kind of in a bubble and whatever you do is kind of not actually even visible by other people. If you have a new umbrella, you're literally in a bubble and you're whatever you do is kind of not actually even visible by other people if you have a new brolla you're literally in a bumble yeah that's true so you know there's some entitled way of of of being and i i you know i do agree that people um with umbrellas can behave like brolly bastards but i i just i just don't agree that you know by definition if you use a brolly

you are a brolly bastard and you're selfish and you're, you know, you're hurting the other people around you. Because I did actually put up a post the other day to just try and establish some criteria for using a brolly in a considerate way. And this is actually, this was actually taken from an article that's been shared before on the group. An umbrella code of ethics, if you will. Yeah, exactly. And I asked people for their opinions. And basically, all I got was Aidan saying, you're making a really reasonable case. So I'm not interested in what you're saying.

Yeah, yeah. And that was, that was my only response. What's the percentage of the hood squad that are dudes i don't think i'm the main there's another person who's a woman who is the more of a more of a yeah yeah she is takes a harder line than i do i think that it's it's probably they probably are more like some women but i think that some of the women have actually admitted that they do sometimes use the bollies. And some of them don't admit it, but I've seen them using them.

In our defence, I would like to say that we've never called for an outright and complete ban on umbrellas. You have. You frequently call for it. You just haven't. It says right here, Aidan, ideal ruling aiden for umbrellas to be outlawed what do you that's a that's a personal belief but that's not an official hood squad position that's your that's your your private position

we don't call for it in the forums of the do? We promote hood use because it's responsible. So I beg to differ, Aidan, because I have evidence here. So, Abby, you have proof that Aidan has called for banning? Yes, I do. And what form does the proof take? On the post that I made about umbrella etiquette or umbraticate, as we possibly call it. Umbraticate.

Thanks for laughing. Yeah, at the end, as well as saying, this is a very fair and balanced piece, therefore I have no interest in it at all. He also said, ban them all, utter filth. So you're a liar. Yes. I mean, this is serious, Aidan.

You just said, I don't call for banning them. And yet, obviously this is in jest, but you lied about your position. You said you don't call for them to be out And yet, obviously, this is in jest, but you lied about your position. You said you don't call for them to be outlawed, but that is what you have requested of this court. I'm trying to show some sort of human face here. Oh, really? It doesn't really exist. Now that you don't have a hood to hide behind, you want to look good?

Very good. Abby, what else does the Hood Squad do in this group to show off their colors? Yeah, I mean, there are lots of rather kind of smug, self-righteous selfies of them on a rainy day, kind of wearing their hoods. And I've got a picture here of Aidan wearing his hood, looking very pleased with himself. And it just says, Brawley bastards everywhere. And there are lots of similar kinds of posts, basically. Does the Hood Squad have a habit of posting smug selfies of themselves in hoods, calling for the end of Brawley Bastards, Aidan, yes or no?

We do. We're leading by example and showing how the world can be a better place by wearing a suitably hooded and water-resistant outerwear. Abby, do you ever respond in kind with a photo of yourself with an umbrella? I haven't. I don't tend to like taking selfies. I understand. It to like taking selfies. I understand. It's a good practice.

I do sometimes post pictures of like the Beatles and Jarvis Cocker and various people with umbrellas. Historic umbrellas. Yes, just to sort of wind up because there are people in the group who are really big Beatles fans, that kind of thing. People who are very sort of virulently anti-Brolly. So it's nice to sort of show that the Beatles liked Brollies. So there's things like that I sometimes, but I mean, I haven't, honestly, I haven't really done anything like that for a while. Is Hood Squad tearing the group apart for real,

or are you just having some good old-fashioned troll fun with each other? I don't think it's tearing the group apart. I think it feels too unbalanced for that. I'm probably the most vocal person about sort of the right to use an umbrella considerably. But there are a few other people who do, and similarly, that doesn't lead anywhere. Do you feel you speak for a silent majority

or even a silent minority of people who are too cowed by the Hood Squad to speak up in support of the Brawley? I don't know whether they're cowed by the Hood Squad, but I think people basically can't be bothered to deal with them. So they just sort of ignore it. But it just really annoys me, you know, it gets to me for some reason. And I just don't like feeling like I'm being shouted at by a lot of people who are supposed to be my friends. I know it's a kind of joke thing,

but it's a sort of ambiguous joke, not joke type, because people do actually believe what they're saying. It's not a complete joke, you know, so it's one of those grey areas where people can kind of get away with saying anything because it's a joke. Aidan, Abby has just said that she doesn't enjoy being called a bastard by her friend, even when he's giggling. How do you respond? The inflammatory language may be sometimes unnecessary, but the sentiment of the majority of the group remains anti-umbrella.

There's never really been a discussion about it or there's no discussion allowed. It's just complete, basically, bullying, really. I mean, obviously, it's not hugely serious, but it does sort of feel like when you can't discuss something at all and you kind of get dismissed out of hand, it does sort of feel like you either have to shut up and go

along with it or just join them. So I just I would just like, you know, I just kind of wanted the opportunity to make the points that I was making, try and be heard for once. And, you know, it would be nice to have the group acknowledge that not everyone that uses a brolly is a bastard and they kind of alter the way they deal with it, the way they address it. So if I were to rule in your favor, would you have me outlaw the term brolly bastard? Not necessarily. I mean, because there are people who do behave in a very entitled, selfish way. It can't be applied blanket style. Exactly that. Yeah. What about walking around in the rain just with a blanket over your head, Aidan? That would be very effective. I think the term brolly bastard has

grown from the people who misuse the said instrument. Absolutely. Where we were criticizing people who were dripping them over or poking you in the eye. It's become a blanket term in the group for anyone using an umbrella. Exactly. even if they're not using it in an appropriate way. What would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? I can't outlaw umbrellas, obviously. I think we'd have to, I mean, in the absence of, you know, capital punishment now in this country for the last, you know, 60 years, I suppose we'd just have to have very strict laws regarding their use and their... I don't think you understand.

This is a podcast. This isn't the head. All I can do is make a ruling with regard to the behavior of the chat to mitigate the beef between the Hood Squad and the Umbrellites. Oh, I like that. Umbrellites. I can't order a complete Umbrexit for you. That is great. I like that. I'm not going to, I can't order a complete un-Brexit for you. That is great.

I love it. So what would you have me if I were to rule in your favor? Because the fact of the matter is, Aidan, you hold all of the cards here. The Hood Squad is a gang of thugs that are bullying people on this group. Absolutely. You post pictures of yourselves and you hurl accusations at nice people who just want to keep their hair dry and not mushed down what would you have me order i can see which way this is actually actually it's highly highly unpredictable so um i should have brought my solicitor with me

really i think i've heard everything i need to in order to make my decision retire now to my my private tube, which is like that luxury train car in Snowpiercer with the big aquariums in it. And I will ponder those fish and eat some caviar and I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Abby, how are you feeling about your chances? Fairly good, I think. Yeah. Because I'm not, you know, I don't want anything too extreme. I just want to be listened to a bit more and to have my opinions sort of like taken into consideration, basically. So hopefully I'll be all right.

Don't get too cocky. Sick of this rude dude from you. Oh, he never told us to shut our pie holes. I'm really upset. We were just waiting. No, shut your pie hole, I have to ask. Aidan, how he feels. Aidan, how are you feeling about your chances?

I'm a reasonable person, and now I'm feeling quite, I'm feeling a little bit unsure whether I'm in a position to be defended in any way here. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this. And I hope he doesn't cross me when we come back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try

S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I Ah, it'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh! We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Mary Poppins, the Penguin, the Kingsman, Rihanna, poison-tipped umbrellas, beach umbrellas. Gimme shelter? I don't know. These are the terms that pop up when you Google famous umbrella users. And some of them are. Some of them are actually umbrellas. To which I would also add famous gentleman spy John Steed from the British TV show The Avengers.

Famous umbrella user. And look at this. Here's a photo of the Beatles using the umbrellas. And Gene Kelly. Famous umbrella user. And look at this. Here's a photo of the Beatles using the umbrellas. And Gene Kelly, famous umbrella user. Umbrellas feature in the wonderful film, My Neighbor Totoro. And here is even a photo of your late queen, Elizabeth II, using an umbrella.

And of course, counterpoint, there's Mary Poppins' famous hood. There are a lot of famous umbrellas oh the internet's just reminding me you were talking about driving that train makes you feel like you're in blade runner that movie's full of umbrellas yes and those umbrellas light up but like many things like atari and other things featured in blade runner we have gone out of business and gone out of fashion. Interesting. Is it your turn to talk? No, I believe it's my turn to talk.

Shut your pie hole, sir. Thank you very much, Jesse. Thank you very much. Now, I will say this to you, Aidan. Raleigh bastards are real. I live in New York City. I have absolutely encountered more than my share of same. The umbrella sins that you have enumerated are true.

And I don't even know if you in London deal with people who have golf umbrellas. Oh, we do. Okay, then. So you know, like those huge umbrellas that are, I guess you use them to play golf somehow? I don't know. But they're not good for a city street. You are going to be taking out some eyes. You're going to be shutting some ear holes with the pointy ends of your spokes of your

umbrella. But that said, you are going to say to me that Mary Poppins is a brawly bastard? No. Not Gene Kelly, who sometimes uses an umbrella and sometimes just sings in the rain. And I would even go so far as to say, not only is it one of the great contraptions in human history, but also one that is intrinsically linked to the city of London specifically. I regret that when we were in London, I didn't have time to go to, was it James Smith and Sons? James Smith and Sons, yeah. Yeah. I would have loved to have gotten a really good high quality umbrella because they're beautiful and they're cool and they're a nice thing to have and you feel better walking around with one.

And there are ways that you can use them, I believe, respectfully of others. Doesn't happen often. I admit it. If you're on a crowded street, it is very hard to use an umbrella respectfully. But under no circumstances would I ever even entertain the theoretical banning of such a beautiful and whimsical and practical accessory as an umbrella. Now, are they not for you? Yeah, fine.

What do I usually do in the rain? I wear a hood and I wear a baseball-style cap. And that keeps the rain pretty much out of my hair and makeup. But I don't wear makeup and my hair is... Let's just put it this way with regard to my hair. I use a thimble full of Baby Johnson shampoo once a week to wash it and it dries when a human baby breathes on it once. There's very little maintenance. I just have to find a human baby, which is not hard to do in Park Slip. I think that Abby raises a really important point, which is that for some people and certain needs, umbrellas are more practical than hoods. In general, Aidan, you may be surprised

that I more or less agree with you that in most settings, wearing proper rain gear, including a hood, is more effective than an umbrella a lot of the times in terms of just keeping you dry. But there are times when an umbrella is very useful indeed. In fact, irreplaceable. And it is a thing of beauty. And I would say that it is unfair to label those who use umbrellas universally as brawly bastards. And I would never join the hood squad because you're a bunch of bullies. Hoods are good,

but that doesn't make you the good squad. Yes. Everything here is being taken in, you know, with a laugh in your group. I don't get the impression that you are actually meaning to be malicious, nor do I get the impression that Abby is secretly nurturing

a deep wound around this situation. But I do feel that the umbrella deserves not only respect in your group, grudging as it may be, but also defense. And in this regard, Abby, it comes down to you. As long as there's a hood squad, there needs to be, I don't know, an umbrella academy, a counter group of some kind that you must lead the way. Frankly, the rudeness that you're discussing in your secret group chat, it's so low key

that I think it's time to spice things up in the group and respond in kind to the hood squad and start flaming them. That I think it's time to spice things up in the group and, you know, respond in kind to the Hood Squad. And start flaming them, you know? A good old-fashioned flame war. I love that you're putting pictures of the Beatles in the group with umbrellas. And I think that you should become the biggest umbrella advocate in the group. I want you to go as hard as the Hood Squad.

So when they tut, you tut tut, if you know what I mean. Tut them back twice as hard. Oh yes, I would go. I would say that you do this only for your own amusement because it's not going to resolve the fact that some of those hood squatters, they're just going to continue to call you brawly bastards no matter what. I think it's unfair. I think it's unfortunate, but that's what the internet is most of the time. Name calling. As long as there's a hood squad, though, there has to be counterbalance. And I order you, Abby, to wield your umbrella proudly and stick its poisoned tip into Aiden's calf when he's not looking. They deserve defense. As a practical device, when used correctly,

and I think that you must very much uphold Umbreticut. I want you to send it to us so that we can post your list of umbrella rules on our Instagram. Will do. But it mostly needs to be defended as, I think, as a piece of a kind of beautiful cultural artifact and a bit of human ingenuity that I think deserves defense. Sorry, Aidan. Even as someone who wears a hood, I like an umbrella. That's fair. I also want you to invite me to the group so that I can join it and I can flame the hood squad with you. Oh, I'd love that.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Aiden, how do you feel? Well, I guess I'll have to abide by his ruling, although I'm very worried about this umbrella defense group forming and causing a schism within our otherwise fairly...

The schism is already there, Aidan. Widening the schism. You're just afraid that there are going to be more umbrella supporters than you thought. And your hood squad dominance is going to be undercut as Abby musters the silent minority of umbrellites. As a famous English actor pretending to be a dead Roman emperor once said, let all the poisons in the mud hatch out. Have some fun in your group since no one's eaten ranch dressing on the subway anyway. Remember that just as

Dr. Martin's boots brought the mods and the rockers together, so can bags on seats bring together the pro and anti-umbrella forces. Oh, that's lovely, yes. Abby, how do you feel? I'm wearing my Dr. Martins, actually.

I'm really happy with that verdict. Of course, yeah. Particularly the fact that it allows me to just go and cause mayhem. I was sort of expecting more of a kind of peacemaking verdict. So, you know, warmongering ones, kind of a lot more fun, actually. So I'm quite pleased with that. I want to thank you for coming on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm quite pleased with that.

I want to thank you for coming on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I also want to thank you for dressing in parallel all black and white outfits against a white wall, wearing white headphones, thus transforming our show into 2001 A Space Odyssey, like a slightly more whimsical version of 2001. And I also would like to say thank you. And one other thing to add. Inside a broken flock, splashing the wine with all the rain dogs. Taxi, we'd rather walk. Do you remember that time we all sang this song on the tube in 1999? sang this song on the tube in 1999. Huddle a doorway with the rain dogs for I'm a rain dog too.

Abby, Aidan, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you for having us. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We'll have swift justice in just a moment. Our thanks first to Redditor Ketchup Love for naming this week's episode Better Call Parasol. A lot of fun names over there.

The MaximumFun. MaximumFun.reddit.com. A lot of fun over there. Is where that goes down. That's where it happens. It's fun because you can see all the suggestions that don't win and they're also delightful. They're all delightful. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on Instagram at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to follow us. The show was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Amir Yaqub at Bison Studios in London, England. Marie Bardi Salinas runs our social media. Our producer is Jennifer Marmon. This episode edited by Daniel Speer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Bill says, in summer or winter, I'll say the days are getting longer or shorter. My partner says I'm wrong. The length of a day is 24 hours,

all 365 days of the year. Well, I don't know what pronouns Bill's partner uses, so I'll just say divorce them. I don't even know if they're married. This is wild. Wild. Yeah, that's not something up with which you should put. That's pedantry of the highest order. That's pretty good, pretty good needling of one's partner, though. I have to admit, Bill's partner. You needled Bill pretty well there, but it's too bad you're going to get divorced. You know, speaking of the days getting shorter, Judge Hodgman, we've got winter holidays around the corner, and I bet there are winter holiday-related disputes, Thanksgiving disputes,

Hanukkah disputes, Christmas disputes. My Aunt Gail celebrates the winter solstice. Yeah, absolutely. Have you given a gift that you felt was not properly appreciated? Have you received a gift that was wrapped poorly? Have you ever gotten into a heated argument over a dreidel outcome? Oh, wow. Gimel those disputes.

Give us your holiday-related disputes, end-of-year, solstice, wintertime-related disputes. And hey, you know, this is the time when you break out the Fanta and eggnog. It's actually delicious, orange Fanta and eggnog. If you've got any traditional holiday recipes or treats that you want to share with us for our holiday party, send those in as well. I'd love a recipe for a little meatballs or something. And, of course, we're eager to hear about all your disputes on any subject. No case is too small. So please remember to submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO.

MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Maximumfun.org slash JJHO. Maximumfun.org slash JJHO. And don't forget, vanfreaksroadshow.com, the Van Freaks Roadshow moves on. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Wait, that's my line.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network of artist-owned shows. Supported directly by you.