Judge John Hodgman - Bigfoot II

Episode Date: March 4, 2015

Judge Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse tackle the reuse of ziptop bags, sleeping in jeans, Luddites, and creative work in today's docket clearing. Plus, Judge Hodgman admits to some monstrous behavior.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, we're in chambers with a docket to clear. Hi, Judge Hodgman. Oh, hi, Jesse. How are you? I'm okay. I could use a good unguent.

I happen to have prepared one for you. It's a podcast unguent. We were just discussing unguents before we went on the air. That's what happened. Just to fill in everyone who's not inside our inside joke here. There are new sponsor, Unguents. Better than ointments. Suck it, salves.

And, you know, after, and poultices, you're dead to me. If anyone would like to get a special podcast unguent a soothing cooling preparation prepared by me your judge personally in chambers simply put your forehead to your podcasting streaming device now and i'm going to send one through to you. This is a podcast unguent. You're going to find it calming, centering, refreshing, and renewing. There are no medical benefits. And anytime you touch something to your forehead, you absolve me of any of any accidents you might have, or any physical ailments you might get from touching things to your forehead. So don't sue me. Are you ready?

Okay, here we go, listeners. Now, you may not have been able to hear that. Only certain enlightened people can. Also, whales. Exactly. Miles away, hundreds of miles away. Whales that are moving so fast that they create a Doppler effect. That's what that sounded like to those who are truly enlightened. And if you did hear it, then welcome to the podcast.

If you did not hear it, turn it off. You're going to get nothing from this because you're not ready yet. Can you imagine what the experience of the last five minutes was like for someone that had never heard this show before? Like there are certainly right now people listening who are unfamiliar with this program, may even be unfamiliar with you or I as public personalities. That's certainly possible. There are levels of consternation amongst those people right now. Maybe we should adjudicate some disputes so that...

Let me explain something to these people. First of all, my name's John Hodgman. I am still and will continue to still be on the daily show sometimes Presumably until there is a new host and then I would say all bets are off My friend jesse thorn and I help adjudicate real disputes between real human beings who call up normally With their dumb disputes over who does the dishes wrong and whether there should be an air conditioners in germany and so forth And in those dumb disputes, Jesse and I find the crux of what's actually going on.

And we tell people who's right and who's wrong and we solve all their problems. But the problem is you guys, we solve too many problems. Uh, and, we now have nothing to do, right?

Jesse, we're just going to sit here in my judge's chambers and do nothing. No, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, nothing is the last thing we're going to do. Oh in my judges chambers and do nothing no no no no no no no no no nothing is the last thing we're going to do oh well it's a good thing I didn't take the rest of this unguent or I'd be out for the rest of the hour here's something from Deanna oh we're going to clear it we're going to clear the doc okay everybody new listeners what we're going to do is we're going to clear the docket we had some cases that aren't appropriate necessarily for a full hearing in court and so we'll the small little questions of ethics or issues, and Jesse and I resolve them in a sort of fast-paced justice-style reality game we call Clearing the Docket. All right.

See, I know how to bring new listeners in. Sort of. Here's something from Deanna. My husband and I have a dispute over the fact that he doesn't want to carry a cellular phone. He's a self-proclaimed Luddite, even though he's a software engineer. Most of the time it's not a problem, but at his new job he doesn't even have a phone at his desk and can't be easily reached in case of emergency. Quick question, Jesse. Do they have any children? any children? They've got two children, ages nine and two. And Deanna is the main point of contact when they're not with them. There are times when I, Deanna, can't be as easily reached if I'm at the doctor's office or during a dental procedure. And it would be nice if he was also accessible as a backup. It would also be nice for him to have texting capabilities to let me know when or where he might be headed. Judge, must he carry a cellular phone?

Well, I can appreciate why Deanna's husband does not want to carry a cellular phone. They, particularly the smartphones. Do you feel, Jesse, as I do, that there's something of a backlash against smartphones? You know, a lot of people think that smartphones are actually misnamed. They're making us dumb. Yeah, well, we're offloading all of our memory to these devices. And we're also going on constant dopamine quests into our social media and various games and such. And we're missing what's going on around us, even as we drive. Hold on. Can you say that again? I was checking my star points on Twitter.

What's that? Hang on one second. I was looking at my new social network, Utztalk. You're on Utztalk? Yeah. It's an invitation-only beta right now. Oh, gotcha. Yeah.

Pretzel only. Sourdough specials, extra extra dark that's my utz handle uh that's also bringing in new listeners right doesn't that yeah they understand why we're talking about utz potato chips the regional potato chip brand we're big fans of regional potato chip brands and sodas here and that's another thing you need to know about this podcast. This is all for the new listener. In any case, I appreciate why this light,

uh, is that his name? No, we'll call him Luddite. In any case, Ned Luddite, uh, that he doesn't want to have a phone because,

he wants to fully experience his life away from his family as he refuses to be in touch with his wife about potential emergencies involving their children. And probably he doesn't want Deanna to track his movements, which phones do, you know. He doesn't want his movements to be tracked as he goes to visit his many, many secret other families that he has all over the country, I bet. But the reality is that as a parent of young children, I, in my belief, he should obviously carry a phone because things can happen. What if your wife is getting a laughing gas at the dentist and your nine-year-old knocks your two-year-old accidentally into a small bowl full of alligators i'm not sure how the phone call would come in at that point but you see what i'm saying sometimes

you need to rescue your children from crocodiles and alligators and uh and and if you're on the road in the car or whatever well you shouldn't be answering the phone well you get on you get the point husband do you think that may be available if you have young children. Do you think that maybe it would be like, hey, honey, it's Luddite. I'm going to be a little late. I'm rescuing the kids from alligators. That could be. That would help her after she gets out of the dentist and is all hopped up on, uh, on, uh, on laughing gas and pain medication.

And she'll be like, well, I remember I've known my wife for a long time. And many years ago when her grandmother was still alive, I had to pick her up at the, I had to pick up my wife, not her grandmother at the dentist because she had had her wisdom teeth removed.

And she, and she and she still she was still in the the uh the effects of many many uh mouth numbing and psychoactive drugs and she decided it was imperative that she call her father who was staying with her grandmother in maine at that time and and let him know that she was okay. And her grandmother answered the phone. And my wife, whose name is Catherine, said through impaired vocal abilities, and her grandmother screamed and hung up the phone. So this is those kinds of things that you'd be missing out on luddite ned luddite if you didn't have a phone uh with you at all times uh i think it's i think it's imperative for a

parent to of young children to be uh available to be reached in case there is an emergency it does not mean that you need to text and indeed, I appreciate why Deanna might want her husband to be contemporaneous with the modern world and available to receive texts. But I believe it is reasonable to draw the line there as it is reasonable to not have a phone at all if you are a lonely solo person in the world. But if you have children, you should have a phone. all if you are a lonely solo person in the world but if you have children you should have a phone if you truly want to be a lot i'd get the oldest weird clamshell phone you can find on the market go into your wireless service provider and just say get me something that looks like it came out in 1991 you don't even know to go into your wireless service provider you can go into your wireless service provider. You can go into your local convenience store. Well, how times have changed. Yeah, go into your local gas and sip,

get some utz, and pick up a burner clamshell. Here's something from Leanne. In the Boreham Hill apartment I share with my boyfriend Nick, I wash, dry, and reuse lightly used plastic zipper-top bags. Our disagreement over my habit came to light during a recent Christmas gathering at my parents' home in Brookline, Mass. My hometown. Our shared hometown is relevant should this turn out to be a regional custom. All right. My wasteful boyfriend thinks

this is disgusting and would like you to issue an injunction preventing me from the aforementioned I notice you cut part of this letter. I am not a hippie. Thank you, Leanne, not a hippie, for mentioning Brookline. This is not a regional custom. It's not something hippie, for mentioning Brookline. This is not a regional custom. It's not something I did growing up in Brookline. Rewashing plastic zipper top bags, I will say, is on a visceral level to me, gross. Occasionally, people in my household have done this. They have carefully washed out the zipper lock bags. And we're using a generic

term, obviously. New listeners should know that I try to avoid mentioning brand names that are not Utzer Moxie and other companies that don't sponsor us that I specifically like. But in this case, zipper lock bags, there are members of my household who occasionally will carefully wash Zipper Lock bags and then set them out to dry by putting them atop various recycled bottles. And I don't like the look of it. And the minute I see them washed and cleaned and ready to go, I throw them away. Now, partly I do this out of friendly spousal spite but partly i do this because on some gut level i don't want to use those bags again also it looks terrible having all those bags hanging around it's messy but part of the part of me feels like i don't want to use those bags again because they are haunted by the food they held before.

That said, I have transcended this disgust and I have stopped doing this because the waste is really far more disgusting than the reuse. This is, if you're going to be using these plastic bags at all, it is horrendously wasteful to just throw them away. And so I will amend my habits and Nick, your boyfriend, will amend his habits as well. And I would also suggest that there are lots of other kinds of storage options that are available that do not use plastic, including these wax paper bags you can buy, which are pretty good for most things. And then they have these non, I will not mention any brand names, but they have, if you search your internet for cheese storage bags,

this is a new kind of paper storage that is great for cheese and I would imagine for other food stuff. Sometimes you can't get away from a plastic zipper-top bag. But if you can get away from it, no offense, companies, you should. What if a zipper-top bag company came in and tried to sponsor us, Jesse? Now. Seems unlikely. Yeah, but what if they said, You know what? You're wrong.

Oh, by the way. And also, occasionally you have to use what's called a cling film. And there's a very specific brand that I like. And I can't mention the brand, Jesse, because I got to be more disciplined about this. If a company isn't sponsoring us, I shouldn't be mentioning the brand. This is a kind of cling film. and I'm trying to think of... Let me get the thesaurus out. One, the first part of the product is a synonym for journalism,

and the second part of the product is a kind of marine mammal that goes... How does that, you see what I mean? Okay. Move on. That was really complicated. The other thing that I'd like to do on this podcast for new listeners is play elaborate, weird parlor games.

Kind of podcast charades. Here's something from Jim. My wife and i have never been able to agree on just what koopa troopas from the super mario world are super mario brothers did i get it oh i thought this was part of the game no this is a new this is a new question okay okay she contends they're birds because some of them have wings and she also claims that their mouths are beaks i say they're, because of their obvious shells, and because what's more likely, a bird with a shell or a turtle with wings? Obviously the turtle with wings. So, which are they, turtles or birds?

This is sort of like that internet dress. Did you get this fax about the internet dress, Jesse, last week or the week before, depending on when people are listening to this, or last year year i got news of it on my ticker tape okay so you know it's a dress it's a picture of this dress and some people the question was is it what color is the dress and it turned out there was no correct answer because some people see it as a off white and gold and then there are also some ignorant weirdos who claim that it's black and blue now most of those people are are liars and sociopaths but some of them it turns out according to science actually see colors in a different way

because they have cones in their eyes which is gross something like that. Point is, the whole internet shut down to talk about this for a while. And here we have a similar sort of situation. These are mystery animals that can be seen in two different ways, but is only one thing. They're turtles. They're turtles. They started as turtles the koopas

originated in the original stand-up arcade sequel to donkey kong jr because there's donkey kong donkey kong jr and then donkey kong 3 i think and the uh but but between donkey kong jr and donkey kong 3 there was mario brothers this. This introduced Luigi, Mario Brother, and had also featured Mario Brother, Mario Brother. And in this game, the Mario Brothers were plumbers, and they had turtles coming out of pipes, which is a thing that happens in parts of Japan, I'm guessing. And they had to flip them by jumping up and hitting the bricks underneath them. They would flip them over, and the turtles would flip onto the back of their shells

and thus become immobile. And then you could jump up and do what every child at the arcade dreams of doing, kicking a turtle. You kick that turtle out of the picture. And that is where these koopas came from originally they're originally called shell creepers according to the internet or in japan they were referred to as turtles and the koopas are turtles i don't care if you add wings to a turtle it's still a turtle they're obviously the thing do you disagree jesse did you did you play

stand-up arcade games i mean because you're a little bit younger than me i did grow up in a stand-up arcade game friendly era the what i would say is probably the last great stand-up arcade game era the sort of street fighter 2 era but i was i was never an arcade habitué you didn't go in there no i did have a sega genesis though oh yeah that was good right yeah well sega does what nintendo did you make that up or was that a thing that they said at the time oh no that was like the main thing they said sometimes i think back to my early video like you know i had a sega genesis no wait a minute jesse i take it back i did eventually own a sega genesis

but in the early 90s i would occasionally walk down to uh the the brand name video rental chain and rent a sega genesis are we not allowed to buzz market brands that no longer exist you're right jesse it's the hartford whalers video rental store i'd jump on a braniff plane uh i would go down to the blockbuster and i would rent a sega genesis as an adult i was an adult i was in my early 20s and i was not, I was eating salt and pepper sandwiches. I could not get enough scratch together to buy one of these things for myself to make

this major investment. So I would rent that and I would rent Star Trek The Next Generation video game, Sega Genesis video game. I don't even know how many bits it was, but it was not a lot of bits and i would play it with jonathan colton and then one one afternoon i have this shameful memory of hanging around with jonathan colton of a of an afternoon of a saturday afternoon

maybe having a cocktail and saying hey Hey Jonathan, how about, how, how about, uh, instead of playing this game together, I pretend I'm captain Picard and give you orders and you move the guys around the away team around as I order. And then I can say, engage and make it. So, and Jonathan gave him this long withering look and he said, that's never going to happen and i asked him to do that my friend how about you let me be the captain i order you around i was so fascinated with star trek the next generation we we record this podcast in the

very sad wake of mourning that follows the death of Leonard Nimoy. Did you ever interview him, Jesse? I never did. I honestly, had I interviewed him, it would have just been all Star Trek IV questions. He directed Star Trek IV. That's the thing about Star Trek that I care about. Hello, computer.

Hello, computer. His comic timing in that scene is fantastic. James Dean. Hello, computer. His comic timing in that scene is fantastic. James Doohan. May he rest in whatever void awaits us in the post-death scenario. I watched Star Trek IV maybe three years ago. I enjoyed it thoroughly. I found it to be very funny. I have no investment in this universe at all,

outside of the fact that i liked star trek 4 as a kid because there was like scenes on muni buses and at the monterey bay aquarium which is where i went on school field trips it must have been so exciting for you it was it could not have been more thrilling uh but even as an adult i found that i enjoyed it very much and found it to be very funny and charming and uh in that that's the one where spock is brought back to life but he's kind of um he's he's out of it well at one point he uh i think murders someone for being too punk rock i was gonna ask you about that doesn't he go on the on the bus yeah he rides a muni bus and there's a punk rocker who were they were such a problem oh yeah you know don't tell me

i lived in san francisco in the crack era those punk rockers going around playing music on their boom boxes playing playing their playing their loud punk rock music their mohawk tunes so tired of that all those ghetto blasters and punk rock coming out of them it was it was such a common sight and and and uh and not a ham-fisted way to get around problematic depictions of race and and leonard nimoy playing mr spock what is he reaches over and he uh he nerve pinches the mohawk right yeah does that kill do they kill him no no no no vulcan nerve pinch that's not murderous that's just a knockout that that's that's it i believe that he got a lot of applause from the upright non-punk rock citizens of san francisco on that bus but truly i don't care what's going on if someone if you're on a crowded bus or subway and someone reaches over to a fellow passenger and knocks him out it's not that's not a point for applause that's people are terrified

why is this man in a robe and a headband knocking people unconscious on the bus i forgot about his robe and his headband i haven't thought about that in a while the point is it was a great head it was like ribbed leonard nimoy son of the commonwealth of massachusetts whose wonderful photographs and you know his second career as a photographer are displayed beautifully at the r michelson gallery in northampton massachusetts where i came very close to having a chance to meet uh leon Leonard Nimoy once because he did a show there and I didn't get the invitation and I missed it and I was sad because I think he's a wonderful,

and he was a wonderful and amazing presence. We just watched a whole bunch of In Search Of's on streaming media. We hit the big three. Bigfoot, Loch Ness, Feral Children. Boom. Didn't even have to do UFOs. Leonard Nimoy grew that mustache. That was the original mustache that everyone wanted him to shave off.

My mustache has got to be the 5,000th mustache that everyone wants them to shave off. I was very, very saddened when I learned of his passing, but the truth is that I was never a Star Trek original series person. It held no, I mean, aware of it, obviously. Next Generation was my jam. I was a Patrick Stewart guy. Patrick Stewart ran a tight ship. And I remember forever feeling, why can't they just have an episode

where nothing happens i just wanted routine missions everything was so orderly on that ship until some some holodeck thing happened and messed everything up and made me anxious but as an only child who just wants things to go smoothly i was for me the perfect episode of the next generation would have been like we went to the we went to the planet we picked up the things we needed to pick up uh captain picard kept everyone in line good good dad wins everyone goes home that would have been my favorite and that's what i was trying to reenact with that sega genesis and then jonathan but jonathan colton mutinied he mutinied my my beautiful dream of

order what a monster i am this is why listeners of the podcast who knew listeners of this podcast you will find i i'm an incredibly perceptive uh and thoughtful judge of people's characters. And I help human monsters see their blind spots and learn to be better partners, roommates, pals, and spouses and stop trying to force people to, you know, watch their terrible TV shows and so forth. And that's because I am a monster. I know I am a monster. That's why I can see into the monsters.

I am a monster hunter.'s why I can see into the monsters. I am a monster hunter. I am Bigfoot, too. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't, honestly. I mean, I hear you saying that you're Bigfoot, too, but I'm not sure what that means. Well, Bigfoot is a gentle monster. Right. You know what I'm saying?

I am as monstrous as any human that I judge as monstrous on the show. That's how I am able to find them and see them and help them get better. Gotcha. What happened? Where are we? We were talking about Koopa Troopas. I did a lot of unguent before you came into my chambers, Jesse. So moving on.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go,

call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-b-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Moving on. Here's something from Matt. I was recently at Union Bar in Brooklyn. It was a weekend, and the bar was very busy and crowded. Well, I'm not surprised at all because it's a wonderful bar.

I don't mind buzz marketing. Well, Union Bar, I'm presuming he means Union Hall in Park Slope, one of my favorite places in the world, and a performing space that is dear to my heart. Go on. I saw a space open up in front of me, so I stepped into it. It only took a minute before I ordered and got my drink, and when that was done, a young hipster gentleman tapped me on the shoulder and said, Hey, man, nice cuts.

He and his friend were standing in a half circle around the bar, and I had inadvertently broken through their perimeter. So I guess that's like a sarcastic, like, hey, man, nice cuts. I think this guy paints a very vivid. Cool cutsies. Like, you know what? You don't even have to say hipster because I'm getting it all through. You are showing and you don't have to tell tell like that that is pure hipstries hey man nice cuts and also the and

also the attitude i apologized i told them i hadn't meant to cut but they all rolled their eyes at each other and shook their heads of course they did only later did this occur to me is it even is there even such a thing as cutting at a crowded bar? Do you push through and let the bartender decide who gets served first? As an added wrinkle, I go to this bar with my friends a lot and make sure to tip well, which leads to better service. Also, there was time to tap me on the shoulder before I ordered the drink, but they didn't. Like most people, I don't want to behave in a way that would make me a monster. Was I in the wrong? Well, the hipster, if you are describing this accurately, and, you know, I have defined

hipsterism, a nerd is someone who has cultural enthusiasms. And they may be intense. And they may be for computer culture, or they may be intense and they may be for computer culture or they may be for horror movie culture they may be for cosplay or maybe for sports even i dare say you know passionate obsessive uh interest in a particular uh subset of cultural uh gestures and uh and things and the nerd wants to express uh his enthusiasm or her enthusiasm in order to find his or her people in the world and to convert others right whereas a hipster and this is the only definition that has ever been workable for me and i've discussed it on the show before but of course we have so many new listeners.

I have to back up a little bit here. The hipster is someone who also has cultural enthusiasms, often for music and fashion. The two cultural enthusiasms that are most closely tied to people hugging and kissing one another and also for fixed wheels bicycles and defunct uh defunct hockey teams like the Hartford Whalers and um but the hipster and and increasingly esoteric cultural fascinations as well uh bands

that you've never heard of as are especially prized by the hipster, because the hipster does not want to share his or her, and most likely his, cultural obsessions, but wants to use his cultural obsessions as a cudgel to bludgeon others into a submissive state so the hipster can briefly feel like his life has some kind of meaning when he usually creates and does nothing but is simply a consumer of various beers and clothes and gestures and ways of life i think you can tell that I don't like these people. I don't like this dude at this bar, especially since it's one of my favorite bars, unless you remember me speaking.

Maybe there's a union bar in Brooklyn as well, which is fine, good, go there too. But I don't like people, right, who roll their eyes at other people. I don't like people who, you know, it was not important to him to maintain some sense of order at the bar. It was not important to him that he get his drink before you. If it were, he would have stopped you long before you ordered the drink and said, hey, I'm sorry, I was waiting here. And you would have said, oh, gosh, I'm sorry.

It was important that there be a secret code of conduct that he and his friends made up that you violated so that they could all judge you. And I'm a fan of judging. Otherwise, I wouldn't be doing a judgy podcast.

But I judge one on one. Get my group of passive aggressive friends in a semicircle that you've got to run that gantlet in order to get your beer or whatever. I am willing, if I have a strong opinion, to take an extremely deep breath and do something that does not come naturally to me and say to another person, hey, I think what you're doing is not cool, or to simply say in a less aggressive way, and what I think all humans should be able to say, oh, hey, gosh, I'm sorry, I was waiting here first. There's one city that I've been to in the United States, Jesse Thorne,

where people line up at bars. They form an orderly line without being asked. And the line is sacrosanct. Can you guess what city in the United States that I've been to where this is the part of the culture of the bar? I mean, I'm going to go Walla Walla, Washington. It's probably a real funny name. You're not far off. It is a Pacific Northwestern city known as Portland, Oregon.

And that's how you pronounce those words, by the way. Portland, Oregon. And in Portland, you would think, think oh it's because people are very polite but in fact it's because people in portland who go to bars especially cool bars don't actually feel comfortable dealing with one another in my opinion so they line up in order to adhere to a social code that will make outsiders feel unwelcome and will make them feel sanctimonious and self-righteous. And with the added benefit of they never have to deal with messy human interactions like, oh, sorry, I was here first. Or, hey, do you mind if I just get this before you because I got to go out or do whatever.

You know what I mean? or whatever. You know what I mean? Those minor, tiny little negotiations that humans make with each other all the time in order to get their alcohol and do other things in life feels like when people line up at a bar in Portland, that's to my mind what they're avoiding. There are people from Portland, Oregon who disagree with me, who think that I'm unfair, write me a letter and I'll engage with you. One-on-one. Maybe I broke your rule and you're rolling your eyes, but that's how I feel. So in the situation here where there was no practical benefit to this guy saying, hey, nice cuts, because the deal was already done. I think he was just being a jerk. I think you described him accurately. He was being a hipster.

And I think that you should have your revenge, which is you got your drink first. Don't ever think about this troll again. And if you are listening and you are at the union bar at that time, people make mistakes. Try just being direct and straightforward and being a human being and say, hey, I was here first. Now, the ethical question of how do you get a bartender's attention?

What's the appropriate way? I mean, you do need to have some field awareness. You need to be cognizant of people who have been waiting before you. You should go up to a bare spot of the bar or between two people sitting at the bar whose backs are pointed away from each other so you're not just stumbling into the middle of someone's date. And you wait patiently and you get the bartender's attention and you always tip well and you and in no place better than a bar than to tip extremely well if you know you're going to be coming back. And the fact that the bartender served you rather than this guy and his semi circle of creeps probably is testament to the fact that you have invested in a relationship and it is paying off for you. And I hope that this creep learns his lesson someday. is paying off for you. And I hope that this creep learns his lesson someday.

Here's something from Tom. I'm a stupid husband taking my wife to internet court. Sometimes, less than once every two months, I fall asleep in bed while wearing jeans. My wife, Susan, insists that she wake me up to remove my jeans to improve my comfort. If I'm asleep, I've reached the ultimate state of comfort and do not need to be awakened. If Your Excellency finds in my favor, I ask that Susan not wake me up to change my clothes, whether I'm wearing jeans or a tuxedo or a Halloween costume. If I'm about to crawl into bed with jeans on,

she can suggest I wear something more comfortable, but not if I'm already asleep. Bailiff Jesse, does it specify in the letter whether he's falling asleep in the jeans that he's worn during the day out in the world in the streets? Are these his street jeans or has he changed them to like pajama jeans? Are these his sleeping jeans? I think these are jeans that have accompanied him through his travels throughout the day. I don't think there's any indication here that he has a special pair of sleepy jeans. The question was rhetorical to some degree, because I think, let me ask you another Socratic question, Jesse.

Is there such a thing as pajama jeans? I hope that there is no such thing as pajama jeans. Why would you, I've certainly never heard of them. Why would you postulate jammy jeans don't exist? Seems like a bad idea. Because? Jeans are uncomfortable to sleep in. Yes, they're stiff.

They're work clothes. Long before they were fancy pants, they were unfancy pants. Long before they were fancy pants, they were unfancy pants. Unfancy pants, work clothes, riveted work clothes from Nîmes, France. De Nîmes. That's where denim comes from. That may be apocryphal. Maybe I'm thinking of Corduroy.

The point is you have left certain ambiguity where two scenarios are possible one you are changing into clean jeans which is crazy before going to sleep two you're wearing your street clothes into your bed and that is not okay and i i would i would rat i would rather sleep in a bed full of previously used zipper-topped bags than sleep next to a guy sleeping in his gross street jeans. And you claim to reach the ultimate state of comfort, but I guarantee you, sleeping in your clothes is not the ultimate state of comfort. It's not even the penultimate state of comfort. It's so far away from comfort.

You don't even get it because children sleep in their clothes from time to time when their parents are too exhausted to change them into pajamas. And so Jesse, did you ever sleep in your clothes as a kid? Sure. How'd you feel? Well, I mean, you probably were wearing a beautiful smoking jacket. I only wore silk clothes as a kid.

All silk, everything. No, this was probably previous to your sartorial splendor of adulthood, right? You probably slept in your clothes, in your tough skins, right? Yeah, sure. And how did you feel when you woke up? I know how I felt. How did you feel? I felt fine.

I don't know if that controverts your thesis here. It does. I don't think it was a problem for me at all. That's okay. That's one of the benefits of having another human being in the room. One of the benefits of having another human being in the room. Perhaps it is because I am a crazy monster who wants to pretend to be Captain Picard and order his best friend around. But waking up in my tough skins always felt awful. And I think that the reason that it feels awful, whether when you fall asleep as a child, or at least for me, is that you on on some level, your body knows that you are transgressing.

And therefore, I don't think that you can get the proper comfortable sleep that you seek. the proper comfortable sleep that you seek. On some level, your body understands when you, sir, fall asleep in your street jeans and are sleeping in your marital bed, lousing it up with all the gross junk you sat on that day at the office or in the subway or the bus. Such as lice. You know what I say, Jesse? Such as lice so you know what i say jesse's such as lice

uh you uh you your body knows right that you have um that you have a failed a basic human process which is transitioning from public life to the most intimate of private life sleep. You have, you have been too lazy to change into bedclothes, uh, whatever your chosen bed clothes are. It knows that you are dirty. It knows that you are disgusting and it knows that you're acting like a child. And maybe on some level you enjoy stinking up your bed and getting your wife to treat you like a child and wake you up like a baby to get changed. Maybe you like tweaking her and maybe you also like the fact that you get to be treated like a child from time to time. But don't be a child. This will not pay off well in your marriage over time and i tell you you will get better sleep if you change out of your garbage street clothes and put on what the great paul f tomkins and his

wife janie had ed tomkins referred to as soft clothes as soon as you get out of the disgusting world and into it and into a position where you might be falling asleep at any time so you know what instead of you don't have to get fancy pajamas but get some get some get some comfortable clothes that aren't haven't been out in the world and aren't made of denim or wax cotton like a barber jacket or something and just change into them the minute you get home and then you can fall asleep wherever you like in bed on the couch at any time in the in the in the bathtub in the corner of the closet whatever you want to do i really enjoy the idea of making a list of fabrics that are not acceptable for sleepwear. Thornproof tweeds.

That's what I was thinking of. Thornproof wax barber jackets. Keeper's cloth. Keeper's cloth is not appropriate. Cover cloth, not appropriate. Chain mail. Chain mail, completely, entirely inappropriate. Burlap.

You saw, oh, like a sizzle rug fabric. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good one. What about a barrel with straps over your shoulders? Not appropriate for sleepwear. No, very, very rarely acceptable. A hazmat suit, but only under very special circumstances. Here we go.

Here's something from Abraham. Should creative people ever quit trying to gain the attention of the public? I'm perhaps a bit jaded. In My Legal Pony, you graciously and generously advised an author that creative people should make things despite failure and criticism and just make more stuff. I feel like I need to earn the attention of the public if that's what I want. Is there a point at which a creator should cease fighting for the public eye to make way for others? This is a genuine philosophical quandary for me, and you are very wise. Thank you, Abraham. I don't know what to tell you. the question suggests that you have no profound inner drive to keep making stuff whatever whatever

your art form is you have avoided saying it maybe it's letters to the editor of podcasts but if you feel that you've done your life's work and you've put out everything you can and and you've either accomplished everything you wanted to accomplish or you feel like the verdict is in and you're not going to accomplish what you want to accomplish in terms of getting people's attention and earning the public eye, then yeah, you should quit. Maybe you specifically should quit, Abraham,

and get out of the way because there there's a lot of noise one of the great things about the democratization of uh of of new media is that everyone who wants to make a thing be it a podcast and increasingly television shows and songs and rants and little videos and books and novels and short stories everyone who wants to make something right can and little videos and books and novels and short stories. Everyone who wants to make something, right, can. And if you're not driven anymore, please stop. But I suspect you are lying. I think that you are not done yet. Because you are clearly still want to be heard,

given that you are seeking attention through letters to me. And so, you know, judge for yourself. If this is your final farewell, so be it. Don't waste my time, right? Waste your time. That's your job. We have one last thing here. An update from the litigants in an episode that I actually adjudicated last year between two best friends.

This was when you were off in Internetless Hills, Massachusetts, I believe. Yes. All right. It happens. Margaret and Bruce were longtime housemates. Bruce had always lied to his grandparents and told them that he lived with a man. Margaret wanted Bruce to come clean. They were like best buddies. Did he lie and say it with a man. Margaret wanted Bruce to come clean. They were like best buddies. Did he lie and say it's a man named Margaret? Yeah.

My dude pal Mags. At one point, it was described that Margaret had ensnared Bruce in her web of friendship. So I ruled that the two friends clearly loved each other, that Bruce shouldn't be compelled to tell his grandparents about Margaret. And I asked Margaret to let her friend be himself and make his own decisions about telling his family. Margaret was the one pushing for disclosure. So we have this update from Margaret. As I write this, I'm sitting on the couch laughing at pizza parlay with Bruce, my soon-to-be former roommate, as he packs up his stuff in advance of movers who are coming tomorrow. Thanks in part to his appearance on your show.

I recommended him for a job, and a person there had heard him on the podcast. He got a new job that made moving in with his girlfriend both possible and practical. I'm obviously pretty sad to see him go. I'm obviously pretty sad to see him go We've had seven years Just as many seasons as 30 Rockin' Parks and Recreation Which is maybe as long as even the best things Are really meant to last And the good thing about all this is

As is often the case When the thing you've been dreading actually comes to pass It's not as bad as you thought As much as I feared that my friendship with Bruce Would fade away if he ever moved out I feel like the opposite has happened so far The knowledge that our shared space is going away has highlighted the fact that its existence on the plane of spiritual best friendship is indelible. My suffocating web of friendship is much, much stricter than I had ever thought, and I was a fool to doubt its minding power.

As we were sharing this special roommate moment over Judge John Hodgman. I was just filled with a big sense of comfort and gratitude for Jesse and John Hodgman for both hearing our case and even more so for helping create so many afternoons like this one throughout our years as roommates. I know I feel both more entertained and more wise thanks to the hundreds of hours I've spent in your company.

So thank you very, very, very much for that very kind email. That was very touching and exciting. You know, one of the great pleasures of doing the show with you, Jesse, is the chance to make contact with all these strangers in the world and not just yell at them in a jokey way about who's right and who's wrong, but to hear about their lives and then to hear their ongoing stories of their lives and uh this is wonderful so so you you uh you you adjudicated this one and you told uh bruce that he didn't have to tell his grandparents that he could that he could keep the secret of margaret is that correct uh yes what if he's what a shame that you get you made the wrong judgment but it seems to have it seems to have worked out what if i hadn't because i would have said no you got to live in your truth you gotta live in your truth and then maybe maybe the letter would have been

very different it would have been now we're very sad this is like a butterfly's wing flapping on the back of a t-rex at jurassic park chaos theory what would have happened an alternate universe spun out luckily i wasn't there to ruin your lives margaret and bruce and i'm glad the equally wise and thoughtful bailiff jesse thorn was able to uh to uh give you guys um a a judgment that that made sense for you and has obviously resulted in some very nice words and feelings, and I feel them. And to listeners who maybe have just tuned in

to this podcast for the first time, it is expected of you all to write me a letter about how the podcast has changed your life. And it should probably be as good as Margaret's, if not better. It's kind of expected that everyone will write a letter at some point, right, Jesse? Yeah, sure.

That's always my expectation when we started this podcast. That's kind of the deal. So keep them coming. It's like sending out one of those teddy bears out of the mail, and then people are supposed to take a picture with it in front of a site wherever it is that they live and send it to someone else it's like we send out a podcast you're supposed to write us letters about how it's changed your

life for the better yeah yeah for the well i don't think our podcast has changed anyone's life for the worst thoughtful touching and be real right and sincere letters please also if we're in your town and we show up at your house you have to give us dinner yeah it's like a vampire if a vampire comes to your house you have to feed a dinner if you download a podcast you have invited a you have invited a fake internet judge and a fake internet bailiff into your house for dinner to feast on your blood well only if you're making blood sausage, which I'll eat. I'll eat blood sausage.

Sure. Why not? I mean, by blood mean your private store of, I don't want to drink blood anymore. Jesse, I don't want to eat black pudding. I don't like black pudding.

So again, by listening to this podcast, you've agreed not to serve me black pudding. When I arrive at your house with judge Hodgman to have dinner. Hey guys, it's all a joke. There is no quid pro quo with regard to this or any of the other Maximum Fun podcasts. We are happy to make it for you.

You don't have to write a letter. You don't have to serve us blood sausage. You don't have to do anything other than listen and enjoy, and we hope you do. But Jesse Thorne, is the Max Fun Drive coming up or not? Oh, yeah. The MaxFunDrive starts March 16th. It only runs for two weeks. This is the time of year when we do ask you to support this show and all of the shows in MaximumFun.org. We are not supported by advertisements and sponsorships. We're supported by you directly, the people that listen to the show. So starting March 16th and for two weeks, we will be offering special thank you gifts and special bonus episodes and all kinds of great stuff to entice you to become one of the thousands

of people who back MaximumFun.org with a few bucks every month. So mark your calendars, folks. It's going to be awesome. Fund. Fundraising. Has fun in the name. We make it fun for you. You'll get all kinds of fun gifts. I still have my beautiful max fun, uh, uh, uh, engraved rocks glasses, which was a premium some years ago. And, uh, and, and we'll be fun. So I hope you will join us and, and, uh, and support the things you love in the way that the allows them to continue. And if that's our podcast,

fantastic. If it's another max fun podcast, great. If it's a podcast in another network, you're dead to me. It's just that simple. Hey, our editor,

Mark is Mark McConville, uh, new episodes of, uh, his wonderful comedy podcast, super ego coming out right now. Um, I just queued one up in my podcast player.

It's a great show. You should really listen to it. It's super hilarious. Julia Smith is our producer. I'm Jesse Thorne. If you want to name an episode of Judge John Hodgman, like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. I think that's about it. Hey, can I say something about Super Ego?

Please do. I am super excited to super announce that Super Ego, the fantastic improvisational comedy podcast and performing troupe composed of Jeremy Carter, Mark McConville, Matt Gourley, and Paul F. Tompkins, will be joining me this summer, June 26th through 28th, at Wilco's Solid Sound Festival in North Adams, Massachusetts, very near Internetless Hills, where I live sometimes. Wilco, every other year, holds this big arts and music and comedy and crafts festival

and this ex-electrical parts factory that's been turned into a large-scale art installation museum which is amazing and uh and i curate the comedy and this year it's going to be uh super ego paul f tompkins will also be doing his own solo set me jessica williams from the daily show uh and tig notaro uh rounding out an incredible lineup of comedy and I hope you will all come and see me in my home Commonwealth of Massachusetts. That's all I have to say about that. Yeah. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hotchman podcast. Okay.

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