Judge John Hodgman - Body-ody-ody of Evidence

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

Andy brings the case against his fiancé Kevin, aka World Famous Drag Queen Monét X Change. Andy says he met Monét outside of RuPaul's DragCon in New York City back in 2018. Andy was enchanted. Their first date didn’t happen for another few years. But for Andy, this meeting is a crucial part of their love story. The problem? Monét says that it NEVER HAPPENED. Who's right? BROOKLYN! Join Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn LIVE at The Bell House for NIGHT COURT (no, not that one)! Get your tickets here: Friday, March 6, Saturday, March 7 Thanks to reddit user u/IronyMaiden_ for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Follow Judge John Hodgman on: YouTube: @judgejohnhodgmanpod Instagram: @judgejohnhodgman TikTok: @judgejohnhodgmanpod Bluesky: @judgejohnhodgman Reddit: r/maximumfun Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething. Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes, discounts on our merch, and more by joining us at: maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Dale of Jesse Thorne. This week, body addi-a-dadi of evidence. Andy brings the case against his fiance. Kevin. Andy met Kevin outside DragCon in New York City back in 2018. Andy was enchanted. Their first date didn't happen for another few years. But for Andy, this meeting is a crucial part of their love story. The only problem? Kevin says it never happened. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. What you did was impulsive, capricious, and melodramatic, but it was also wrong. Bill of Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Andy, Kevin, please rise and raise your right hands. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you, God or whatever. Yes, God. I did. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he met his wife, who was a whole human being in her own right, inside Drag-Con, rather than outside?

Sure. Yes. I don't know. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Okay. Kevin and Andy, you may be seated. Before we begin with the guests of the obscure cultural reference, it's notable that, indeed, this dispute is centered around Drag-Con.

I only, I met my wife as a whole human being in her own right at the drag con that is known as Brookline High School. This is the real drag con where Kevin and Andy met. And there's a reason for it because Kevin is not just Kevin, but is also one of the premier drag queens in the world. You may know her as Monet exchange. I would say one of them. I would say the judge, the premier drag queen of the world. The premier drag queen of the galaxy. There we go.

gathered you here today to rank the world's drag queens. And the unknown universe and Andy, you're wonderful, too. And you are engaged. Andy, you and I have a history that we're going to explore it shortly. But I just wanted to say, welcome to you. If you don't know who Monet exchange is, she has been on multiple seasons as the winner of Rupal's drag race. Yes. Miss Congeniality, right?

Yes. And winner of All-Stars season... Four. Four. Excuse me, for not knowing that by heart. Yeah. And runner-up, All-Star 7. And if you're watching on YouTube, you may now go over to Monet's YouTube channel to subscribe to Monet Talks, your chat show that you have over there on YouTube.

I'm sure people can just look it up using search, but what's the channel name? It's Monet Exchange, my drag name. M-O-N-T-L-Letter-X the word change. People often put exchange, like they're exchanging clothes at the store. And I'm like, no, I'm not that dumb. I took the E-off, stupid, you know? Yeah, I love the exchange. Yeah.

Perfect. Yeah. And I was just enjoying your conversation with the wonderful Michelle Boutot. I love Michelle Boutot. What a diva. She's incredible. She's so funny. hilarious.

Yes, she's wonderful. So please go over there and subscribe there. And Andy, we'll get your plugs in, too, in a moment. But first, we've got to, and also, may I mention traders, Season four. Yeah. A series of an obsession.

We'll talk about all of that and more in a moment. But first, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture

that I quoted as I entered the courtroom? It was a very quick little quote. I don't like that deep breath in because it suggests that maybe you know it. But I'm going to do it anyway.

What you did was impulsive, capricious, and melodramatic, but it was also wrong. Andy, you want to take a guess? Yeah, that's a few good

man. A few good men? I'm going to write that down. I've heard this quote so many times. It's on a tip of my tongue and I know the movie. I've seen it multiple times and I cannot tell you where it is. No! Oh my God. That is from, no, it's from Schitt's Creek. It's from Schitt's Creek. Absolutely correct, Monet Exchange. Yes.

It was a quote by which character? By Moro. By Moro Rose. When David, this is episode one, season two, when David stole her bag. Okay, but let me interject, John. What are you wrong about so that we can do that? Wrong about nothing except, and so, you know, normally when someone gets it right and it rarely ever happens. In fact, I think this is maybe the third time in a decade. How did you know that?

I love the show. That was a quote from Mara Rose portrayed by the late and beyond great and wonderful Catherine O'Hara, who passed away recently to everyone's. intense sadness. Yeah, 100%. But her body of work lives on forever. It is incredible. And there's a reason that I chose that quote.

So look, honestly, I should just ruin your favor now and we'll finish this. Both of you talk. And I'm going to try to stump you one more time. Do you know why I quoted Moira Rose? It has something to do with something. Stop giving out hints. by Moira Rose. I don't know because she is a, she plays, Moira Rose is a fabulous diva living in this small town,

kind of like me living in North Hollywood, you know? There are many parallels there between two of us. Absolutely, all of that is true, but it is also true. I recently learned that Catherine O'Harris' performance as Moira Rose served, and particularly her accent, which is a, this sort of amalgam of mid-Atlantic, old Hollywood, plus some British. Her whole accent combined some of the energy that was an inspiration to Alan coming, the host of the traders, in his sort of over-the-top performance as the host of the

traders. Okay. In normal life, he's a pretty chill dude as Alan Cumming. Yes. I've had a Cawkset with Alan coming in at Club coming in the Lower East Side. Yeah. And yet he said recently on an unnamed other podcast, nothing bad, a good one. I just can't remember the title of it.

But he said that he based his accent in the traders on Catherine O'Harris performance. Oh, wow. Partially. So we are going to hear the whole case. I'm not automatically going to throw it to you, Monet. Because this is a case that is, you know, a little, this is personal, isn't it, Andy? Very.

You bring the case to this court. What's going on? Well, so we're engaged to be wed. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And part of our lore, I feel like, is telling the story of how you met in the first time you met. But consistently, my beloved, denies our founding story.

and I would like it to be, you know, entered into the record, so to speak. It's a founding story to you because I have no recollection of it. Monet, do you remember meeting Andy ever before today? I think this guy proposed to me like five months ago. He looks like him, I think. But I'm not thrown on that either, Judge. We'll get into the details in a moment,

but I need to know when. Do you have a date? we don't have a date yet um Andrew is in grad school so we're waiting for his grad school to be over yeah we're looking at Q3 27 Q3 27 all right I'm circling circling the Q Andrew how do you have time for grad school when you're focusing on gains if anybody is not watching the YouTube and just listening to this Andrew is like two men pressed together in the Panini press I did have a project pancake for breakfast.

Thank you so much for acknowledging. Monet, I need to, before we get into this, I need to ask you a very serious question. Yes, please. Team Rob or Team Candace. Oh, I am Team Rob. I think Rob is playing an excellent game. He truly is playing like 10 steps ahead of everyone else. And he's able in his little, in his, those little overalls,

He's able to just like really think about really intricate details that are going to affect his gameplay later on. And I think he's just, I think he's playing circles around everyone in that castle. We're recording, we're recording this just before Valentine's Day on, in February. So we're in the middle, we're talking about the traitors. Yeah, the traitors, yeah. I don't know what we'll have happened by the time this revealed. But at this moment, Candace was just banished from the castle and revealed to be a traitor. while Rob, who is currently a traitor,

remains. Yeah, he remains. I'm sorry, I cut you off, Monet. What were you going to say? I was going to say, it's really easy to do when you're playing a game with people like Moira,

who has no idea what is going on. Morra did not watch a single episode of the show before she went into the castle. She had no idea of murders were going to happen. She had no idea that banishments were a thing. So she truly has not a single clue of how to play the game, which is hilarious to watch, and she's still there.

Would you say it's a problem that Moira doesn't have a little overall? I think so. I think the little overall would help her case. So in your recollection, in your personal lived experience that Monet is denying, apparently, how did you meet Monet? Tell me the story. Well, so I am also from the wilds of Massachusetts. I'm a normal.

And I'm walking around the streets of New York and the same words have meaning normal. You mean a normal? I mean a non-celebrity. Sure, sure. Is that what you mean? Yes. A civilian. Yeah, I'm not used to.

I haven't moved to L.A., and I'm not used to being around, running into one time I saw John Legend, for example, and I had to act like it was just a normal occurrence, right? Right. Where in Massachusetts are you from, Mass? Lexington, though, I did live for two years in Brooklyn, Massachusetts. Oh, yeah. You're pretty normal. Yeah. It's pretty rather than that.

Summer 2018, walking to DragCon. And I look over, and I had been a fan of the show. I was a new gay at the time. So to get caught up to speed, you have to watch. And he was a new gay. I mean, the rainbow wristwatch, the rainbow ring, the rainbow scarf. I was like, Jesus Christ, we get it, you're gay. Well, I had to signal because I had lived my life as a closeted straightman for so long.

Fair, fair, fair. Yeah, as a Brookline normal. There you go. You just assume my Puritan upbringing. So I, when you come out of- You were wearing buckle shoes. So you have to watch seasons one through roughly 10 of drag race when you come out of the closet to catch up, right? So I've caught up on drag race.

I'm about a year into this whole being gay thing. And I go to, so I go to drag con in. in New York and I'm walking there and I look over and I saw the tallest woman I'd ever seen in my life and she was beautiful. She had like a was like not tartan. What's the, what's that material? Buffalo plaid. Thank you.

Buffalo plaid. Buffalo plaid. Braids. Boots that were very tall. And so immediately my mind starts racing. I'm like, how am I going to in a normal way talk to this person? because I was enchanted. And did you have an encounter?

We did indeed. I walked over. I crossed the street strategically. Walked kind of a side, a stride. This individual I said, they don't get you a car to DragCon? Because I knew she was going. Right, because at this point, Monet has been on drag race. There as a, as talent, as a celebrity, to this big drag convention. at the Java sensor in New York, and you say they don't get you a car, which is a great, great approach.

Precisely. So I, and this is my fiance's great superpower as being a woman of the people, you see. Okay. So she's just walking like the normal people to drag on. She says, no girl. I got to walk there like everyone else. I was like, wow, that's wild. And then I blacked out.

I don't remember what happened after that. Sure. But I believe she walked into like a side entrance and I went in the, the main way for normal people. For normals, for Brookline normals. Sure, exactly. And that was your first meeting, but then later on, that was not how you began dating.

No, we matched on Hinge. Wow. So I'll tell you a few plot holes in the story where Andy's incorrect. Yeah, let's go, Manet. Yeah, so there's no way. So Andy's claiming that I had Buffalo Planet with high boots. That year at Drag-Con, my theme was an art gallery

where I did not, in fact, wear Buffalo plaid I wore Buffalo plaid gown. So had I been wearing Buffalo plaid high heel, high heel, high heel, had high heeled high boots, and you would not have seen such high high boots. Wait, wait, with the braids Buffalo plaid?

I heard that the braids were Buffalo Plaid and was trying to imagine how it was. No. No, I think there was a comma between Buffalo Plaid and Braids. I thought that too. And what was the full of a dress that was wearing, Andy?

I believe it was just... What was the silhouette, Andy? It was mostly an oversized shirt. I'm not vers. Judge, I'm not. normal. I don't know silhouette names. I don't know styles, really. I mean, you're a Brooklyn boy like me. Exactly. I just don't know what these clothes mean. We hide in ourselves.

And so I'm... Monet was wearing an oversized buffalo plaid shirt like Al Borland. I do have a picture that I didn't submit to evidence, but is, is, you know... Blackly's story. I have a... It's 2018 drag con. Googleed it. images. Oh, so you glued with a fore to find out what I was wearing so that when you presented this case, you could sound like you were

presenting this picture that does not exist. That is a straight up accusation that you're a liar in. Which is usually the foundation of any good marriage. Simply so I could. It's how my parents did it. I just received a text from Jennifer Marmer, our producer, with an image

that purports to be a Getty image of you, Monet, at DragCon, 2018. Evidence incoming, Jennifer Marmer, would you please share the image? For those listening at home and those watching on YouTube, you can see this image, Judge John Hodgman Pod on YouTube, but if you're listening at home, it is an image of, you don't deny, Monet, that that is you wearing a Buffalo plaid shirt, some version of boots and braids. Correct.

But your contention would be, and that was from, from drag con in 2018? That wasn't a drag con, correct. But your story is, earlier you said that wasn't your outfit. Well, I've done three drag cons. The next year, 2019, I wore the Buffalo Platte gown. But I think where I have paused is how you just told us that you had to Google what I was wearing to tell us in the story,

as opposed to just being from your memory. I was told to submit evidence, which I didn't do, but I did do research. So, Manet, you're suggesting that the only reason Andy knows what you were wearing is not because he remembers it, but because he Googled and found the image and sent it into us. Correct, Judge. I guess. So, Monet, you are a celebrity at DragCon.

Obviously, it's a whirlwind. Was this the first time you had gone to DragCon? No, 2018, it was the second year I did DragCon. This was New York City DragCon. And so, you know, like you're saying, Judge, it is a whirlwind. I'm at DragCon weekend, I easily would meet 2,000 people. So if there was this this alleged meeting that happened.

Charming meet cute on the street. This alleged meeting. Alleged meat cute. I think we say alleged charming meat cute. Let's compromise. Outside of DragCon, walking into DragCon, you basically Mickey Mouse walking into Disney World. So I was stopped by probably a lot of people, several people.

So this meeting with Andrew had no bearing on me. I did not remember it. I'd not even know Andy existed in this world. really, until we matched on Hinge three years later. Monet, are you consistently gracious with everyone that walks up to you in a situation like that? Absolutely not. Especially when it happens at 6 o'clock in the morning at LAX. I'm not gracious at them at that point, no.

So at least if this actually occurred, you chose to be gracious to Andy because maybe on some unknown level you knew that he was an okay person, a good Brookline normal. Yeah, for sure. We're quite normal. And, you know, and Andy, if this meeting did happen, I assume that Andy came with, he wasn't being shady or rude on any way if it did happen. But my point being, if this did happen, it did not make an impact. I didn't really meet Andy. Andy was one of 3,000 people I maybe met that day. Monet is shadiness or rudeness part of people coming up to you? Are people coming up to you and giving you the business? Oh, absolutely. Especially, you know, when you see,

send their favorite home on drag race from a lip sync or when you voted their favorite person out on traders a lot of shady and rude people come up to you they're playing the game inside their hearts exactly and they finally have a chance to play it in real life exactly got it so mona at this point you you're becoming a known personality you're you are you are blowing up yeah and he is a brookline normal we've established so what should we know about your beloved husband to be? Andy is pretty normal and pretty plain. I think that the where Andy shines is in his heart,

where Andy shines is in his ability to be the most sober person in the room and to care for the other people who are not sober, like myself. Thank you. Thank you so much. Andy, you're going to graduate school. Did you mention already what you're studying? I'm getting a master's in public health at UCLA. That's fantastic.

Thank you. Amazing. Monet, you're saying that not that this happened and you forgot it, but you doubt that it actually happened. Is this your position? Yes, this is my position because when Andy first recited the story to me, this carefully constructed story that he's wrecked several times, when he recited it to me, there was one crucial piece of the story that he said, and after I met you, I told my best friend T.J. about it. And he remembers. So then we then, either, I think we called T.J. or T.J. was,

or we were in Boston, whatever was. And we asked T.J. And T.J. said, what are you talking about? I don't, I don't remember that. That never happened. Oh, no. You were let down by T.J. in Boston. Well, I was let down by the fallibility of memory. Which T. T.J. Which you don't have. No. No. I have very specific and strong memories of this moment. But, you know, it's just me and my friend.

He doesn't remember one errant. But you told me, you said I told T.J. Lesgas games. We literally went to your number one witness. But later he recanted and he said he did remember. After you bullied him. After you bullied him and twisted him into submission. T.J. is 6-2 and he is from Lynn.

He can not. I know exactly what that means. Thank you. Lynn, Lynn, the pretty, this, the city of sin. You never come out the way you went in? Mm-hmm. Did you, did you, did you, did you, did you, did you, did you, did you, did you bully or influence TJ to change TJ's story?

I would never do any such thing. And indeed, it's not even possible. You say this was the second time you were there, Monet. And I, and I'm just curious, like, how was your life, how had your life changed by the time you were going to drag on for the same? second time. What was it feel like to blow up in the way that you did on the, and become a TV star? Yeah, you know, before that, I was just a plain, simple girl who would take the subway and walk to everything in New York City. So that's why I wanted to be amongst my fans. I didn't want to take a

black SUV to drag on. No, I took the train and I walked up to the building like a normal citizen. And the thing, the way that Andy may have known is that I tweeted about this. And I was doing an Instagram stories about this. And people knew that I was, that my big thing of DragCon was that I was going to take the subway and not take the black cars like all the other girls

because it was in my city. It was the first DragCon in New York City. I'm not going to take a black car. So this was public information that I was taking public transportation to direct con, I'm just saying. Can I respond to this accusation?

I'll allow it, Andy. Kevin, this is the most bad faith accusation I have heard from you yet, darling. You know, for a fact, I didn't even know how to use Twitter until maybe three months ago. I'll tell you what, Andy. You picked the wrong time to learn.

Sorry. Yeah, let's talk about that. So now you chose to use Twitter. Now. Okay. Now. Yeah, get that shovel. Keep on digging.

Timeline was poor. But I wasn't on, you know that I was, I did not access this public information. You know that. So are you alleging that straight people do not use social media? I didn't know how to use Twitter.

I didn't, I wasn't on Instagram until like 2019. Like, it wasn't available. Oh, like the story, the year after you met you met me the first time you started using Instagram. Well, I needed, I was enchanted. Okay. Monet, why would Andy make up this story if it didn't happen? Because, you know, throughout the tenure of our love,

Andy likes to cling to these stories that I think are feel true to him and feel true for his lore. But I think our original story of meeting is better than this chance frivolous thing that allegedly happen outside of Drakhan. We have an actual beautiful story, so I don't know why this story is the one he's he's choosing to lead with. Well, tell me the beautiful one. So, it was

June 2021. I just moved to L.A. in March 21, and I was, you know, on the dating apps, you know, on the hookup apps, are my right ladies. I'm trying to find a man for the evening, several men for the evening, and then I was on several. Several. And then

I got on Hinge. I was like, you know, Like normal question. I was like, you know what? I'm going to get on Hinge. I'm going to start dating for real. I'm in a new city in Los Angeles. Let me get on Hinge. Was on the app.

And after a few, like a week or two, I bounced into Andy. And like within like the first three messages, Andy wanted to get coffee. He wanted to move off the app, which I liked because oftentimes on these dating apps, these dudes, they would just keep it on there and talking for days and weeks and then just fizzles. But Andy wanted to get to the real thing. But a little wrench in the plan. He didn't know this because I couldn't tell anyone

because you signed an NDA. I was going to film All-Star Season 7. Like we met on that Monday. I was leaving that Saturday to go film All-Star Season 7. So he was proposing to get coffee that week. And I was like, well, I'm going away on a secret national tour that I can't tell anyone about and I won't have access to any telecommunication devices.

And at this point, I'm convinced this is a Russian lady pretending to be because you can't tell anyone you're going to be a Russian lady pretending to be a Russian lady you can't tell anyone you're doing the show they take your phone you don't have any access

or anything so that's an incredible dating flex but I can see where Andy is like yeah I'm going on a secret mission in a week if you would like to meet for coffee I will need your social security number first you know like that's what it was and I was like hey like I can't meet this weekend

sorry but when I get back in a few weeks, I can let you know. And then he responded, sure, or whatever. And it's when I got back film All-Star 7, seven weeks later, I logged into Hinge. I was like, hey, I'm back, let's meet up. And

he had sent me his number. Yeah, I said, well, you have my number. Use it. And then we went to get ice cream that weekend and the rest is history. And I think that's a bit of story, then this fake one that happened outside of drag on 2018. That's not fake. Alleged it's our, alleged one to have

It's a nice story. What kind of ice cream did you get? Do either of you remember? Ooh, I think I had the brown but a cookie dough one, which I love my favorite van lo and ice cream. Yeah, something brittle, something. Yeah. And I should know, because... Something brittle. That's what you had, Andy? Something brittle? Yeah, some kind of brittle was in there. You know what? Let's check any images on this. Andy, you mentioned and, you know, the first meetings are sometimes hard to remember.

You mentioned that you and I had an interaction, Andy, that I don't remember. Can you remind me what it was? Sure. Well, so as I mentioned, I was a new gay at the time of DragCon. Prior to that, I have been, and Kevin knows this, I have been engaged before. And I submitted to your column in the New York Times Magazine, I believe it is, yes? That is correct. That I wanted to come into my wedding, which was with a lady, a 24.

24-7 lady. And I wanted to come into the wedding on a jet ski. And I submitted this to you as to get it ruled that I could do this because there was some conflict and back and forth about this desire. And you ruled against me. Were you in part asking for a ruling that you were heterosexual? Oh, we're a football jersey. You know, that was maybe happening underneath. And then later we both came out as gay.

It was lovely. That's also a beautiful story. And I'm sorry that I did not recall. You would think I would remember the guy who wanted to enter his wedding on a jet ski. It seemed like a pretty easy call for you. I apologize. Yeah, no worse. I heard, okay, so I have a question which is, John, you asked Monet how her life changed. upon becoming a television star.

What we heard was Monet tell us how normal she was because she rode the subway, which, you know, okay, so does Steve Busemi. As Sir Dr. Parker. Yeah. Michael Shannon is out there on the subway in New York City as well. But how did your life change? I want to know the actual answer to that question because I do feel like that's relevant to the case. Yeah, I think my life has changed where I do a lot of people.

People stop you more in the Starbucks, at the airport often. I get stopped in Delta Lounge is often. And I'm accosted by people. I don't know because I don't know what is about me. People love to show me pictures of their children. And I'm constantly being to show pictures of children. Recently, this woman in the Delta Lounge in New York City and JFK, she pulled out. She's like, you know, I have to say, I've loved young drag race for so.

many years, you guys really helped me through my last pregnancy as having a really hard pregnancy and watching your show every week really helped me out. I was like, oh my God, thank you. That's such a beautiful story. She's like, can I please show you a picture of my daughter? And I was like, sure. And now, season 10 was what, eight, nine years ago, I'm expecting to see at least a high schooler. She pulls out a picture of a baby. I'm telling you, is one like, like straight out of the canal. Like, it is still wrinkly. The eyes are still closed. It's wearing rainbow rings. It's clever than chlorophyll or whatever it's on there.

It was crazy. I don't know what was on that baby. It was crazy. You may be thinking of houseplants, but it's got. So, yeah, so people like to show you things. People come up to you a lot. And I think that that's probably the biggest change is that the public, people recognize you from TV.

I've been excited to exchange stories about what your time on the show did for them, being happy to see you, saying their favorite quote from the show. Soak it up, girl. I mean, I hate Rob, too. Like, you know, like, people are, you know, people, that's probably the biggest change. They're trying to make a connection. Yeah, they want to connect with you. And my point, Judge, is that, like, if this alleged interaction happened, why cling to this one

that I don't remember when there is a beautiful one that we both remember? Does it feel weird to know that your lifelong commitment that's about to begin in a holy matrimony may have begun with a fan stalking you on on javits row yeah you know like stalking is a real thing like i something i worry about this is crazy and the fact that you were one of an early stalker for me it was it's concerning i was not and to click to that stalker andy we're both i think mona and i are both being facetious here but but i think i understand where you're coming from mona because like if i you know when i accidentally went on tv for a while and suddenly people were coming up to me in the Sky Club. By the way, don't ever stop coming up to me in the Sky Club.

I love it. Show me the pictures of your weird children. I love it. But if later on I discovered that like someone very close to me that I remembered meeting a certain way, I was like, oh yeah, actually, I was secretly taking picture of you on a plane three years before we officially met or whatever. It would weird me out a little bit. I don't know if that's you, but that's how I might feel about it. Yeah, if I was like, if I was at a uniral peeing at some rest of the in, you know, in the bathroom of the Abbey, and I made eye contact with a weird guy next to me and three years. And he's like, you remember when we met in the bathroom? That's how we made eye contact at the unural, at the unural, unural, urinal, yeah, you're in a urinal. Yeah. You're

a little. I hardly know her. John, let me ask you a question. I know this is a reversal of fortunes here, but this is very unusual, but I'll allow it. Often when we are on the road, you are extraordinarily gracious and garrulous with our listeners. Yes, that's because I've blacked out. What? Yeah. Somebody who has been on our show will often introduce themselves to us and say, oh, I was on case blah, blah, blah, right?

They'll say, oh, I was on case 122, or I wrote into the New York Times magazine with this case, that kind of thing. And I have to say, when people come up to us and say, I was on this case, despite the fact that we have sat with them for 75 minutes or so, recording this podcast, I never remember.

Yeah. You don't hear to remember this? How often when someone has had that kind of interaction with you, do you remember, John? Well, if someone says, oh, I was on the show, well, I mean, you just saw it with Andy. Like, you would think that I would remember a Jetsky case, even in the New York Times magazine. And even if I've sat with somebody, they might, I might not remember at all, you know, but I'll always lie and say, yes, I remember you very well.

And that is, I would be fine with that level of courtesy. I want to say, I would be fine with a lie. That's what a couple's counselor would recommend. You, you know, in your introduction, self-introduction to the traitors, you acknowledge that you are willing to lie. I believe Jennifer Marmer has pulled some evidence. I will lie about my dead grandmother. She's alive. I will lie about anything if I need to to win this game.

It's a game. It's a game, guys. I will lie about my dead grandmother. She's alive. This is a game. This is a game. To me, Your Honor. This is love.

This is love. And I don't want. our forthcoming nuptials to be based in lies. I wouldn't be about truth. Truth and Jetskis. Can I, I want to recognize, I understand it's ironic to bring this up on a podcast, but sometimes Kevin and I, we bicker, and I have to say, babe, we're not on your podcast because Kevin also has a podcast that's basically an ongoing argument with his best friend.

Would this be sibling rivalry with Bob the Drag Queen? Indeed, their whole stick is to argue about things and to be, you know, be pedantic and da-da-da. And sometimes I have to say this is not a podcast. And I feel like this is one of those things. Like it's, let it lie, you know? Yeah, but maybe you're just lying. Maybe you're just lying. You want to let it lie, but maybe you're just a liar, Andy.

Wow. But if you think that Andy is lying, Monet, why would you ever get married to him? Because, you know, Your Honor, I, throughout my career, I have learned to see the true goodness in people, and sometimes at face value, things may not be the best, but I have

this weird, you know, I think it's the Pisces in me because I'm a Pisces son and Pisces Moon, and we're just really able to go with the flow and discern, but still love and take care of it. So you're saying you forgive Andy his delusion for his outright lie. Do you think it's a delusion

or an outright lie? I think it's a delusion. You think he misremembers? Yeah, I just think he misremembers. And you know what, to be fair, you know, Andy, you know, I'm going to say this, you know. There were some other black drag queens that year that have names that begin with M, that Andy said that he thought he met me. And I was like, no, no, that picture is of someone else. So he may have spoken with someone else that is with the letter M in the same season, and he thought it was me.

How do you respond to that, Andy? Well, this I think is part of... You don't even recognize your own life. This is part of Monet's original wounding, is that at that very drag-con, there were very long lines to wait for these drag queens to get a picture. You'd be careful, Andy.

I don't... You'd be careful now. She knows this. I had to make a very difficult choice, which was... Go on. I waited in line for Monique Hart to get a picture.

with money card. I did not do the same for money exchange, in part because I feel like we had had a more substantive real interaction on the street earlier that very day. And let's be honest, turn the line is about 20 minutes. Mine was three hours, but that's either here or there, okay? That's either here or there. I understand why you would make that decision. Exactly. That's very Pisces of you. But to the point of I did not have them confused. That was not part of what was. Andy, if I were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule? What are you seeking? That whenever we tell our origin story, inevitably, when I pop in and say, well, actually, this is where we met, that all eye rolls cease, that interjections claiming fraud of any kind

also cease that there's essentially an injunction on this behavior. And I'm allowed to tell my experience as I experienced it. Monet, are you just sort of getting Andy's goat because it's fun? No, Judge. Tell the truth. No, I want the truth to be said. I want our Lord to be that we met on Hinge,

this beautiful way when I was going to go film this whirlwind television show and this beautiful man swept in and distracted me from it. I waited for me. He waited for it while you were away. For seven weeks. It was also in the story. He had, when I had left to go film,

he had deleted his hinge because, like, well, he just deleted the app on his phone because he was just over it. And then by chance, his friend saw his profile was still active. I was like, hey, you should go, like, actual delete it on, like, in the app, not just, like, delete the app off your phone.

And when he went into the app, then he happened to see my message, and then he sent me his number, and then we met up. So I think that's a more impactful story than him meeting Monique Hart outside of Dragon. Nate. Manet, I've one further question for you.

Yes. I don't remember which episode of the Traders it was when you wore this incredible plaid corset. Oh, yeah. Over over what would be traditionally like a men's dress shirt and slacks look with incredible glasses. It was, it was magnificent. Thank you so much, Judge. Thank you.

Was Rob R biting your style at the Black Banquet? Yes or no? You know, okay, thank you for saying that. When I saw Rob wear that corset, stained glass thing, whatever it was, I was like... I mean, it was pretty magnificent, too, but it felt a little like after the fact, if you know. Oh, yeah, Rob definitely reheated my nachos,

and he was eating them at the Black Banquet, for sure. But you know what? I don't... Just like I inspired Andy to tell the story of our meeting, I inspired Rob and the cast on different ways as well. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. As some of you may know, my gavel was confiscated at TSA recently. Nick Offerman and his Offerman Woodshop are constructing us a new one.

In the meantime, I'm using various substitute gavels. This week, my substitute gavel is this copy of the novel Scruples by Judith Krantz, the 1978 blockbuster full of adventure and hugging and kissing surrounding the world. of high fashion in Paris and Beverly Hills. I loved this book so much. I don't know if anyone out there in Max Financial who has ever read this novel, Scruples by Judith Krantz. But Judith Krantz was a journalist in women's fashion

for years before she wrote this novel. And she gets women's fashion, both the beauty and the business of it cold in this book. I loved it. And this is going to be the gavel. I'll be back in a moment. I'll tell you who I'm throwing the book at when I return. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman

exits the courtroom. All right, Monet, how are you feeling about your chances right now? You know, I thought like, what I've learned in my career is that when you lead with truth and honesty, light will always shine. Okay, this feels like one of the lies

that you were talking about in the clip where you were saying that you're always willing to lie. I think that I have presented myself honestly to the best of my memory. all of my experiences. And I hope that the judge sees that and that the judge receives that. How did it feel for you when you saw yourself

in the Catherine Hanna from La Tigray outfit? You know, I knew, people know, Buffalo Plat is one of my favorite colors. And so it's not shocking. I think the shocking, and I think to me, one of the most damning pieces of evidences in this Cardi B.

like a court trial here is that Andy. The first time that this courtroom has ever been accused of being a Cardi B trial, like. I think that when Andrew said that he had to Google to find out what I was wearing, on a day that he was so charming and it was meant so much to him, I found that to be a very damning piece of evidence. Andy, how are you feeling about your chances? You know, I feel good.

I think ultimately it would be very strange to in-holing. cloth make up a meeting with my partner. And I think, you know, my beloved fiancé has a long public record of getting goats and being a goat getter. And I think it's pretty clear that this is an instance where, you know, attempts are consistently being made to get my goat. And I'm looking forward to put it into it. Monet, does your resume have a line that says, I'm a real goat getter? But that's because all those years I worked on the farm. No, I don't think I get people's goats. Okay, we're back on the castle.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Judge John Hodgman, we are taking a quick break from the case, but we are not taking a break from our work, sir. No, we, in fact, we are going to the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York for two nights of Judge John Hodgman and bailiff Jesse Thorne Nightcourt. This is a brand new show, a more intimate comedic experience than you might be used to, where Jesse and I take to the stage and it's just going to be a little bit wild, right, Jesse? A little bit unbridled and uncensored. We're going to play some games. We're going to do some comedy. We're going to sing. We're going to talk to the crowd. I think it's going to be really fun. We're trying a bunch of different stuff.

Like these Bell House shows, this is definitely something you will not. see anywhere else at any time. This is like us doing all kinds of new stuff. I think it's going to be really fun. And each show is going to be different. We have a Friday night show on March the 6th and a Saturday night show. Guess what? On March the 7th at the Bell House, one of my favorite places to perform, truly my home away from home. So I hope you will join me in our home away from home and Jesse as well. Go to maximum fun.org slash events for tickets now. It's going to be full of surprises. Also, we are going to go to sea. Isn't that right, Jesse? We're going to ride on the Grace Bailey, which is a wooden tall ship or something like that. Yes, that's right, Jesse. It's a 100-year-old

two-masted wooden windjammer sailing out of Rockland-Main. Of course. John, of course it's a windjammer. How could I have forgotten this is my first time riding on a band from 1986 that plays at lounges. Yeah, we're not, we're not, we're not riding on a boat. We're jamming wind starting June 14th for four nights. Talk about intimate encounters. There are only about 15 berths on this boat. Jesse and I will be there with you as we cruise the beautiful waters of Penobscot Bay, absolutely silently, because it's a sailboat, you see. I'll be doing some readings from vacation land and Jesse might be giving you some wardrobe advice if you want it. We'll just be They're dispensing justice left, right, and center.

Those aren't nautical terms. I guess I mean port, starboard, and amid ships. It's pretty good. It's going to be a lot of fun, and the cabins are selling out very quickly. So go to bit. Dot Lee slash maritime justice. That's all lowercase. Maritime justice.

Bit. Dotley slash maritime justice. That'll take you right to the booking page. If you want to learn more about the Grace Bailey. Go to sale, grace bailey. com. It's going to be a lot of fun. fun.

Boop deck. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Look, I think that this happened. I think that this encounter happened. I think that Andy is not a conspiracy theorist or a liar or a deluded person. I don't think you'd want to be marrying. someone who was a liar or a deluded person.

I completely understand, Monet, that you don't remember it. Why would you? The guy sidles up to you outside the Javitt Center. Boy, my, my, my alarm bells would be ringing hard at that point, even if I were a woman of the people taking the subway. Be a little nervous, little nervous. If some guy started walking along with me while I'm just trying to get into the convention But I do think that it happened.

And I just want to say that, first of all, Andy, you know, it's a great story for you, right? Because you were a new young gay and, you know, kidded out and your many, many rainbow accrued and you took a deep breath and you saw an icon and you're like, I'm going to talk to her. and that's amazing that you were able to do that. And in a sense, I mean, it's even more amazing that you would later reconnect and fall in love. It's a wonderful story, you know, when Brookline Normal gets the girl. That's a great story. You did it.

And also, by the way, your story of meeting on Hinge is a great story, too. I mean, as Monet says, it's a lovely story. And I'm going to say something. that's when you met. That is when you met. Now, I'm not going to allow Monet to deny your lift experience any longer. Thank you. It's no way to start a marriage.

And, you know, I believe, Monet, that you're a goat getter a little bit in a fun way. It's obvious that you adore each other. And, you know, it's fine that you don't remember that this happened. And it's also fine. And I'm going to rule in your favor, not. not least because you got the cultural reference right. You not only got Moira Rose, you got the episode and season, correct.

That was amazing. That's crazy. But just on the merits of the case, I think that it's fair, I think that it's fair and right for you to agree as a couple, that you met when you connected on Hinge, when you met as equals, as two people coming together,

not in this asymmetrical moment where, where Andy saw you as a fan and you were there, you know, in your buffalo plaid looking amazing, but also, you know, in a performance space, you know, that's a moment that was real for Andy and that's a moment that is powerful for Andy, but that does not need to be the story of how you met as a couple. I would encourage you, you know, if not in public, and I'm not asking you to do it here necessarily, but if you must only in private in the turret later on tonight. When you are completely alone saying to Andy, I believe that you experienced what you experienced,

if only so that at least on a private level, you're on the same page going forward into this marriage. You don't, you know, it's like those traders carry lanterns, but you don't want to start a marriage with a gaslight. You know what I mean? It's not, you know. You can say it here publicly on the podcast. I wouldn't mind the clicks. But if it's not something that you can say in public, that's fine. I believe that your experience we met was your experience and happened for you.

I'll take it. Whoa. Okay. Wow. I didn't expect that to happen. That's amazing. Thank you very much. We've had many years of there.

You just want a free copy of scruples by June of Krant. I'm throwing the book at Andy, but I'm sending it to both of you as a, wedding present because it's terrific. I love that. And I'll put something else in there too. And then the only other thing that I would say is that, you know, going forward, Andy, though, I am ruling in Monet's favor, which is this is this is not how you met. This is how you first sort of saw and encountered Monet. But you met as equals later in life.

That's a wonderful story in itself. I'm not telling you to never tell the story. But instead of saying we met on the street outside the Javitt Center, instead say, I saw her on the Javitt Center and I knew that I was in love or whatever, but it would be years later that we would meet as real human beings and whole human beings in our own rights and fall in love. That's the way I would do it. If I were in the confessional in the castle, that's how I would say it. And in the meantime, maybe you want to get married at the Coolidge Corner Theater in Brookline. I don't know. It's just an idea. I don't know what you have plans. But yeah, but whatever you do and wherever you get married, I leave it as an option. And this is, you know, I'm finding him in his favor. But as a token to Andy for his good nature, I leave it as an option for you to include a Jetsky. This is the sound of the fake devil. This Jetsky ain't a toy. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Andy, how are you feeling about this decision? You know, of course, I'm disappointed to lose, but I think it's a fair ruling, very empathetic, and I can move, I can move forward. What are you thinking about this jet ski? Well, I think we're going to have to make sure it's a water-based venue, babe. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Monet suspiciously silent.

Monet, how are you feeling about this decision? I'm feeling great. You know, when I woke up this morning, I knew that justice would be on my side. I knew that I was going to come into this courtroom and present my whole honest self. And it feels nice to be victorious. I mean, I think I'm going to go get a cheat meal now.

I'm going to get a donut after this. I feel great. A dinner friend? Yeah, I was doing it. On you, though, since you lost. Monet and Andy, before we let you go, there are some events happening in your life aside from your upcoming nuptials.

Monet, you're going on tour, correct? Yes, I'm on tour for my high heels, bad knees stand-up tour. It's a really great time. It's a full hour stand-up comedy, and it's freaking hilarious. I'm coming all of the contiguous United States.

Portland, Seattle, Phillipsburg, everywhere. I'm coming everywhere. So go to Monnet Exchange.com to get tickets. Yeah, I don't need to be your fiancé to know that URL is Monetic Exchange.com, M-O-N-E-T-X-C-H-A-N-G-E.com. And you also have an event coming up that you wanted to plug.

What's The Phoenix? So the Phoenix is where I work, the Phoenix.org, if you're looking for it. We're a national recovery community organization. So we do a ton of fun events in person and online. If anyone is sober curious, in recovery, kind of thinking, what's next for me and just wants to be part of a safe healing community, go and check that out at the phoenix.org. And everything we do is free as well.

Thephenix.org. Thank you for the work that you both do and for being here on Judge John Hodgman. What a thrill. Thank you for having us. Thank you, Judge. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We'll have swift justice in just a second.

Our thanks first to Redator Irony Maiden for naming this week's episode, Badiadiadi of evidence. You can join us on the Maximum Fun subreddit at R slash Maximum Fun. That's where we ask for our title suggestions. So join us there and keep an eye out for those. Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram account. That's at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman.

We're also on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman pod. John, I have been posting, like I started making a few little videos for Instagram. And I was like, I should be posting these to TikTok and YouTube as well. So if you search for me on TikTok and YouTube, you will also find me posting some shorts there. I just did a little tour of Quikwilko, which is an ancient pyramid site in Mexico City. Like in Mexico City, it is 3,000 years old. It is sitting in the heart of Mexico City. There's like a freeway that you can't hear somehow that's 200 yards away or 300 yards away.

It's a special place. It's pretty incredible. You don't need to tell me about it. I saw your video and I loved it. I have been told by a number of commenters that because the base is round, it is not a pyramid. It is a cone. It is a cone. Wow. So that common architectural term, a cone, is what I should have been using. Cool cone, bro. I love it. Judge John Hodgman Pod is our YouTube channel. And if you are listening to me, may I please encourage you to also see me when I tell you, go to the YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod is our channel and subscribe if you please.

It's a lot of fun. I'm really enjoying doing the video. You get to see our litigants. You get to see all of Jesse's reactions, all of my eye rolls and flusters. And all in all, it's a delightful way to enjoy the show while also helping people. discover it because if you subscribe and I urge you to please hit that subscribe button, it really does help people find the show, new listeners and viewers find the show. That's why we do our YouTube comment of the week.

This week, our YouTube comment of the week is at Mr. the BLR who wrote, I was upvote number 67 on this video. Apparently YouTube gives you a little sticker for hitting a meme number. What happens when you reach 69 or 420? There's only one way to find out. John, I got a little sticker for being 1066 in honor of the Norman invasion. I was going to say, in honor the Norman invasion of England? Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I don't know. Why don't you find out? Keep up voting our videos. Hopefully you can let us know what happens when you are the lucky one to hit 420 or 69. What sticker did you get at the BLR for 6.7? I'm curious.

What about 11-11? Make a wish. Keep those likes coming, but also keep those comments coming. Those shares and those subscribes. Our show created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. Megan Rosati runs our social media, the podcast edited by A.J. McKeehan. Our video editor, Daniel Spear, our producer, Jennifer Marmer. All right, Swift Justice.

You ready for this, John? Yes. Redator ergonomic cat says on the MaxFun subreddit, we have a cat that really likes human food. He likes to take bites out of whatever I'm eating. My family thinks I'm gross because I let him do it. But it's hilarious and adorable. I don't mind cat germs.

Well, I don't understand. Ergonomic cat, are they like taking a little piece of hot dog or whatever and putting on the floor for the cat to eat? I think what's happening is they're like, if you imagine that ergonomic cat had taken three bites out of their piece of toast, they're then turning the toast to the cat so the cat can take a bite out of it. I hope that's what it is. Maybe they're both enjoying a strand of spaghetti lady in the tramp style, one on each end. I feel like I am still recovering from the time that we said it was okay for that guy to let his dog lick the plates before they went into the dishwasher. Like we got 30,000 emails that were as though we had just murdered the Queen of England or something. The fact of the matter is ergonomic cat.

Not enough evidence. I am suspending my judgment until you send in a video of your cat eating human food. Frankly, I'm holding you in contempt for not sending this video already. Show me a video of your cat eating human food and then I will judge you. Honestly, I want to see like a little place setting. Yeah, me too. So we're nearing the end of award season. Speaking of Moira Rose from Schitts Creek, I was rewatching some Schitts Creek.

And at one point her daughter goes, what's your favorite season? awards. We're nearing the end of awards season. The Academy Awards are around the corner. I love movies. I love disputes about movies. What's your pick for best picture? What are you going to do when Timothy Shalameh robs Michael B. Jordan of his best actor Oscar? I hope that doesn't happen.

I'm just preparing myself emotionally for, frankly, the likelihood. Michael B. Jordan's going to be overlooked for a reason you can probably guess. What is the best snack at a movie theater? popcorn, snowcaps, mix them together? Do you hate it when the movie theater makes you pick your seat in advance, or is that the only civilized way to go to the movies? And what do you think about the whiz? Send us all of your movie disputes to Judge John Hodgman by going to maximum fund.org slash J.J.HO. Maximumfund.org slash J.J.H.O. And indeed, that's where you can submit any kind of dispute, right, Jesse? Yes, in fact, at maximumfund.org slash J.J.HO.

you can submit to us your beefs with cats. You can submit little things that might end up in the column or might end up in Swift Justice. You can submit big things that'll end up on the air, but we need you to submit things at maximum fun.org slash jj.O. Take a moment to inventory your life. I mean, this is something you should be doing regularly anyway. It's part of your daily practice. Wellness practice, yeah. But in this particular instance, I want you to focus on the beaves in your life. Yeah.

And I want you to note them and I want you to nurture them and send them into us. This is not about releasing the conflicts. We want you to, we want you to seize upon them and type them into maximum fun.org slash J.J.H. And by the way, if you got a beef with a cat, that's terrific. I want to hear about it. But I also want to hear about your cat eating beefs. Send me the video of your cat eating human food.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Jesse, I took your line. I let my dog lick my face. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artists' owned shows. Supported directly by you.