Judge John Hodgman - Bouilla-biased

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Daryl loves soup! But her husband, Adam, hates it. Daryl has stopped making soup at home and misses it. Adam says that he wants her to stop talking about soup in public. It makes him feel bad. Daryl just wants more soup in her life. Who's right? Who's wrong?We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman!Thanks to reddit user u/Mr-Duck1 for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Join at $5 a month at maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, bouillabiest. Daryl brings the case against her husband, Adam. Daryl loves soup, but she can't cook it at home because Adam hates it. She misses soup. She'll tell anyone who will listen. Adam says he wants her to stop talking about soup in public. It makes him feel

bad. Daryl just wants more soup in her life. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Old-fashioned vegetable made with beef stock. Scotch broth, a hearty soup, one of the manhandlers. Chicken dumplings. Hot dog bean. Tender beans and little frankfurter slices. Oyster stew. Vegetarian vegetable, the alphabet soup.

New England clam chowder. Tomato beef noodle-o's. Golden mushroom, rich in sliced mushrooms, cheddar cheese, great as a sauce, too. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Daryl, Adam, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever?

Yes. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he only eats solid foods? Yes. I do. I don't think that's true. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

I'm sure you like soup as much as the next guy. Just like the dead Kennedy said, soup is good food to me, but not to Adam. Adam and Daryl, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. And by the way, you may be seated in the comfortable chairs of Technica House, our recording partner in New York City. Hi, Jacob, who's our engineer there. Nice to be back with you virtually again. But now it comes down to Daryl and Adam. Can either of you two name the piece of obscure culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Let's see, Daryl, let's start with you. the piece of obscure culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Oh, let's see, Darryl, let's start with you. It sounded like a delicious list of soups. It was not a list of soups with which- That's right, Darryl, you win the case, goodbye. Let me look. You two met in like a trivia club, right? Yeah, it was an online Zoom trivia hour. Oh, we're gonna get to your whole life story, Adam, in a trivia club, right? Yeah. It was an online, uh, zoom. Oh, we're going to get to your whole life story, Adam, in a second.

Sounds good. Point is this is a trivia question. Oh yes. I did recite 10 delicious sounding soups, including hot dog and bean, not a sandwich soup. What do these 10 soups have in common is my question to you. Adam, I'm going to ask you now and give Darrell a chance to think about it. I'm going to guess that it's like the, do you want to hear them again? Sure.

Okay. Old fashioned vegetable, Scotch broth, a hearty soup, chicken and dumplings, hot dog, bean, oyster stew, cheddar cheese. Also as a good as a sauce, golden mushroom, tomato beef, noodle, those new England clam cheddar vegetarian vegetable. And I forgot to mention that scotch broth, a hearty soup, is labeled one of the manhandlers. I don't know what that means.

But I gave you a big hint, by the way there, Adam. Give me a big hint, and you too, Darrell, because you're gonna get another chance. Well, it flew right by me. I think I'll guess that it's a, it's like the opening day slate for Campbell's Soup. That was like what they decided to offer on the first day of offering Campbell's Soup. The original 10 Campbell's Soups.

Is that what you're guessing? Sure. All right. I'll put that in the guest book. When you said opening day, it was just baseball opening day. I assumed that you meant that every year on baseball's opening day, Campbell's Soup offered a baseball-themed lineup of soups. Yeah, it's like the puppy Super Bowl except the baseball Super Bowl. Yeah, their peanuts and Cracker Jack soup was not developed until a couple of years later.

Yeah, exactly. Jesse Thorne, going up when you were seeing the Giants play, your favorite day to go was soup day, right? Everyone got a can of soup? Yeah. Big trouble when the Phillies had soup day. It does remind me of I did a tour of baseball stadiums. And one of the things I did was I

wanted to try signature food at each ballpark. And I'm struggling to think if any ballpark had a soup. It's not something you want to bring into the stands. I feel like a hot brothy liquid is not something you want to be holding above another person's shoulders and neck. When a fly ball comes your way. Boy. That was always the joke about Candlestick Park, right? That at other stadiums, they'd throw a full bottle of liquor at you.

At Candlestick, it would be half empty because they would have had to drink most of it to stay warm. Pretty good, Adam, but stop stalling. Daryl, Adam guessed the original 10 Campbell's soups. Now, I'm going to say something. Adam got the hint because I's soups. Now I'm gonna say something. Adam got the hint, because I did mention on Scotch broth, the hearty soup,

it says on the label, one of the manhandlers. So he knew that there was a label involved. So he's close, but let me ask you this question. Does Darrell smoke cigars? Not currently. Not currently, no. Right, so he is close, but no cigar. Oh, there you go. Cigars? Not currently. Not currently. Right. No. So he is close, but no cigar.

Oh, there you go. I win again. Oh, boy. Anyway, before I retire for a terrible joke making, Darryl, what's your final guess so that we can move on to this? I truly don't know, but it does sound... These soups have something in common. He is not correct.

It is not the opening day roster of Campbell's soups. Can I give you a hint? Please. So Campbell's soup was introduced in 1869, or at least Campbell's started as a company then. These soups were offered to the public in the year 1969, a hundred years later, so not opening day, by any stretch of the imagination. 1969 Campbell's Soup, hmm. What could the connection be, Daryl?

Are these the hundredth anniversary Campbell's Soups? All guesses are wrong. The people of Pittsburgh are crying today because you did not realize that these were the ten hands of Campbell's Soup that were painted and then silk-screened as part of Andy Warhol's Campbell's Soup II collection of prints. I was thinking about Andy Warhol and I thought I should not say anything about Andy Warhol. Why? Because it was too obvious or because you hate winning? I definitely thought it was too obvious.

I thought it was too obvious. So the 1969 collection of silkscreens Campbell Soup 2 was a sequel to, you guessed it, Campbell Soup 1, which Andy Warhol made in 1968, but even that was a sequel to his original 32 Campbell Soup cans that he released and completely transformed his career in American art in 1961 and 62. So there you go. I like these cans. The reason I picked Campbell Soup 2 is because it had the weirdest ones including hot dog bean. And the manhandler. The manhandler, scotch broth. I guess Campbell's had a line of pre-chunky soups

for very masculine eaters, I guess. I don't know what it was. Anyway, we're gonna hear the case. Who brings this case to the courtroom? Daryl? I believe I do. Daryl, you love soup. What are your top three soups?

Oh boy. I think my top really enjoy tomato soup. Sure classic. Like a roasted, hearty tomato soup is wonderful. Oh no, sorry, you're wrong. Campbell's tomato soup is the only tomato soup. She makes her own. Well, I used to, that's one of the soups

that has been banned. Yeah, no, homemade tomato soup is really good too, I apologize, go on. I like Trader Joe's tomato soup. Sorry, I don't mean to throw a spanner into the work here, but never tried it. Okay, tomato soup is number one. I also am a big fan of a white bean escarole soup

that you serve with like a crusty French bread, maybe with some garlic on it, it's delicious. Yeah. And then, gosh, there's so many soups to choose from. I think just off the top of my head, you know. This isn't Sophie's choice, Darrell, just pick a soup that you like. It's not locking you into anything here.

My mom makes a chicken soup, which is very dill heavy, which I really enjoy. Mom's dilly chicken. So of these three, Adam, mom's dilly chicken, extra thick white bean and escarole, or homemade tomato puree, which of these is most disgusting to you? I have to go with the chicken.

I'm a vegetarian, so I'm not a big fan of the meat, the meat aspect of that one. You're not, you're not, but you're a big fan of your mother-in-law, I trust. Oh yeah, she's great. Okay, terrific. But you do hate soup. Yes. And tell me all about it. Why do you hate soup so much?

Is it because it's gross to you or what's going on? It's really, it's hard for me to describe, but I find that it doesn't leave me very satisfied. It's not filling. Yeah, it's nice, it's warm, it's a good sensation. So I like, in the same way- I'm not asking you to make the argument for soup. Everyone knows why soup is good food.

Why do you hate it? It's like a real chore to eat. It's just so much like volume of stuff to eat and like volume of liquid to consume that it just really, really grates after a while. I'm just, you know. It's a chore to eat. Yeah, it's a spoon to mouth and bowl and spoon to mouth.

You just gotta keep going on it. It's like you're working on a project. Yeah. It's like you're digging a, you're digging a ditch of stew. Yeah, exactly. And it just keeps filling in. I a hundred percent assumed this would be a textural issue. The fact that it is an issue with chore foods is really throwing me for a loop here. Honestly, Jesse, I think this is the first time I have heard this argument.

So I'm also, my loop has also been thrown. Has Darrell ever made a different argument or is this just a new side of your husband that you're seeing for the very first time? He has made other arguments against soup. Like what? For sure. That it's not filling, that one I've heard before. It's not filling. You also have told me that you don't think that it is a meal,

that you don't think it is real food, that the flavors are not as flavorful as solid food, which that one I don't understand at all, that feels like. Yeah, I do feel that way. Yeah, I don't understand that. I mean, it could be watery or mushy. Exactly, it's watered down quite literally.

When was the first time you realized, oh, I'm not going to ever eat another soup again, even if it does hurt my wife's feelings? Like, were you a kid? No, it's, I can't really remember. It's kind of a later in life that I've taken a stand against. How old are you? 31. 31, okay. So more recently that I've taken a stand against 31. 31. Okay. So more recently that I've taken a stand against it.

What are you going to say? 25, 25 ballpark earlier or later than 25. Around then. Okay. Around 25. I got it on the nose. When, how long have you had that beard? People who are watching on the YouTube channel, judge John Hodgman pod will

notice that Adam has a beard and also that Adam and Daryl are very adorably holding hands and have been this entire time, which I applaud. You cannot because you're holding hands, but I applaud it. How long have you had that beard? Does that play into your superversion? I definitely stopped shaving during the pandemic. So a couple of years ago, stopped trimming and shaving and just letting it go. I'll get it cut back occasionally to get the split ends off and things.

So did you start getting soup in your mustache and you're like, this is gross. Because I'll tell you something, as somebody who now has a mustache and a beard, arguably, soup is a challenging food for me, even though I love it. It is a challenge. Is that part of what's going on? No, it doesn't really bother me.

I eat like runny eggs all the time and get out of my face. I did not need to hear that. Not a fan of runny eggs. I am. I just don't want to hear you talking about it. Now that I've got my, not only your beard in my mind, but in my eyes, it's just not what I want to envision at the moment no offense you wouldn't do what's your favorite food what's your most filling ideal food oh gosh and this is a Sophie's

choice situation yeah this definitely is you choose it and this is what you eat for the rest of your life right of course that that's the hamburgers no you don't you're't. You're a vegetarian. Macaroni and cheese. Macaroni and cheese. I'm a big fan of like a rice bowl, a lot of variety, a lot of different textures, some good spicy sauce on there. I love anything that's spicy, really.

For sure, you were going to go with giant soft pretzel. I do love giant soft pretzel, but that's not a meal. That's like a great snack. You ever have one of those giant soft pretzels where they bring it to your table on a hook? Oh, yeah, I just like that. That's too showy. No, I've never had that.

I have had this. Where are you getting pretz on a hook, Jesse? Sometimes you go to, you're at like whatever, a beer garden or something like that, and you order the giant soft pretzel with a cheesy dip. And then they bring it to you on a hook, like on a stand on the table is hanging from a hook, like, like the, like the sides of beef that Rocky fights. Daryl, Adam tried to give the game away earlier.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us how the two of you met? Daryl, Adam tried to give the game away earlier. Why don't you go ahead and tell us how the two of you met? We met at a Zoom trivia night at the very beginning of the pandemic. I think it was the first weekend of lockdown. A couple of my friends, my close friends were organized. Wait, you're married and you met on Zoom? We did. We met at a trivia night hosted by mutual friends.

So we like to say, depending on who you're talking to, we met at a party hosted by mutual friends. We also met online. Both of those things are true. Daryl, when did you learn? So you met five years ago. You got married how long ago, Daryl? Year and a half ago.

Congratulations. And when did you learn that your beloved Adam hates soup? I only learned about this about, I would say October of last year. Well, okay, recently. It was very recently and it was a bit of a surprise because we had been eating soup and in fact when Adam first met my parents, one of the things he did to show them you know how wonderful he is,

is he cooked ramen for them. Ramen is one of the, Adam's not a, he's a great cook but he doesn't cook very much. I do most of the cooking, almost all the cooking in our house but one of the things that he specializes in is ramen. And we're talking about more than just putting a packet into two cups of water. Yeah. Oh, he makes an amazing homemade vegetarian, I think it's vegan ramen with dried mushrooms

and fresh mushrooms and takes like a whole day. It's great. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. Oh, no, no bests. Yeah. So you can see why I was very surprised to learn last year I would say it's great. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. Oh no, no bests. So you can see why I was very surprised to learn last year that he hated soup and didn't want me to make it anymore and didn't want me to tell anybody about it.

Jesse Thorne, I would say that ramen is one of the most famous soups. Would you agree or disagree? Yeah, that's gotta be a top 10 soup worldwide. Yeah, totally. So you two are telling me that you're a married heterosexual couple where the wife does most of the cooking but the husband does some really complicated cooking

that takes all day every once in a while. It makes a huge mess. Yeah. Yeah. It makes an enormous mess everywhere. I presume that only the fact you're a vegetarian keeps you from having an over elaborate smoker setup. And living in New York City too.

But we knew some people, one of her coworkers was big into smoking and lived in Brooklyn. We were always like, I've always been like, how did he manage that? Don't worry, Jesse, he has an elaborate espresso machine setup with all the different fiddly bits to make coffee. So Mr. Fiddly Bits himself is in the house. There's truly nothing that a husband whose wife does most of the cooking loves more than

spending 36 hours smoking a brisket. You're making all this ramen. What is going on? What kind of what kind of a manipulator are you? One year into your wedding, you're making soup for your in-laws. And then as soon as you hit that anniversary, you're like, well, I got you trapped.

Now it's time for me to show my true colors. No more soup. And I would like you to be a trad wife. Start churning butter. Turn this liquid into solid so it'll be more filling. Yeah, yeah. Now what happened? What was the switch that flipped at that moment? Really, the inciting incident was we had gone out a couple of times that week seeing different people going out for her aunt's birthday or going to have dinner with some friends. It had come up at every one of these outings

that Darryl really missed baking soup. Then the conversation would turn from Darryl saying, I miss making soup. I'm like, well, why don't you make soup? Oh, Adam hates it. Then they turn to be like, Adam, why are you a terrible person? But also, then it would turn into them just naming soups in my direction.

The conversation would move on and we'd be talking about something else. Then someone from the peanut gallery would be like, chili? What about chili? You just stepped on a third rail there. Chili isn't a soup though. That's not a soup, that's a stew sir. That's not a soup, that's a stew sir. That's not a soup, that's a stew. That was the first case the Judge John Hodgeman never heard.

There you go. I was really like, I would rather talk about the weather, I don't talk about anything other than you quizzing me about soups. You skipped a step there too because you went right to the fact that you were getting annoyed because all the people in your life were quizzing you about soups. You kind of skipped a step there too, because you went right to the fact that you were getting annoyed because all the people in your life were quizzing you about soups. But you never told us when you told your wife,

stop making soup, I'm never gonna eat it. Oh, see, I've never told her that. Daryl, then why are we even here? So it sounds like you're willing to eat all the soups. I grant you permission to stop holding hands if you need to. This is a frustrating part of this conversation for me because what has happened is, so we went out this soup weekend where people were naming too many soups at Adam and he didn't enjoy it.

At the record show, we were calling that soup weekend from now on. where people were naming too many soups at Adam and he didn't enjoy it. And we got home. At the record show, we were calling that soup weekend from now on. So noted. Soup weekend, okay. So he went out and turned into a whole soup weekend. Adam felt was quizzed on all the soups that he didn't like. Yeah, he will characterize it as,

people were naming soups in his direction, which he doesn't enjoy. And he got home and he was, first like visibly very frustrated. And he's usually a pretty calm, he's a pretty even keeled guy. And he said, can you please stop talking about soup? I don't enjoy it.

And that led to a conversation about how, well, I really missed soup because I couldn't make it anymore. And he said, well, I haven't said you can't make soup anymore. I said, well, but you won't eat any of the soup that I make. And so I can't cook at home for us because you won't eat it. Doesn't want it.

There is a tacit ban on soups in the house, not an explicit ban. And I recognize this is a personal preference. This is a reflection of my sort of the way that I treat food and eat, but I like to cook for everyone who will be eating. I grew up in a house where, primarily my mom, but also my dad did a lot of cooking and we cook family meals and whatever the person who was cooking cooked was what we ate as a family We didn't have separate meals, you know that were cooked for different people and so if I know that if I cook soup and

Adam isn't gonna eat it and He's gonna eat something else then I'm just not gonna cook it because it's not a family meal If you cook soup, what is that? I'm gonna do go make a sandwich for himself I'll probably I think that what happened in the past is I'd be like, Oh, could I have some of the non-soup like leftovers from yesterday? And, and you don't, you specifically say, can you go and get me other food? Oh, certainly. Instead of getting your own food?

No, I'll get it. I'll eat it up. Won't do all that. No problem. You're just saying, so that's not, that's not an order to your wife, please go get something else to eat. That is, you mind if I go and eat something else because I'm not going to eat any of your disgusting soup. I'm tired of it. I'm a grown-up. I'm 31 years old. I don't like eating it. And I don't like being made to feel like a freak by your family.

Yeah, true. Is that how you feel when, I mean, this is as much about banning soup talk as it is about making soup. So when Darrell's family and your mutual friends start, how do you call it, naming soups in your direction, why does that make you uncomfortable? CB I just find it very frustrating. It happened also when we were planning the wedding that we ended up just having the same conversations like over and over, like we would see different people. Yeah, yeah, you're telling me about events that happened,

but you're not telling me how it made you feel. I mean, I do want to know what soups you served at your wedding. I presume that it was a soup buffet. There was a soup actually at our wedding. Really, Italian wedding soup? No, what was it? I forget.

It was Jamaican jerk, not chicken, Jamaican jerk, spiced stew, I think it was called, but it was a soup. But it was a vegetarian version? Yes, it was delicious. It was in fact the only thing from our tasting, and we had a great caterer, but it was the only thing from our tasting that we both said, no matter what else we have, we have to have this at our wedding. And, oh, you agreed to get Jamaican jerk spiced stew?

Yeah, it was nice. And you weren't just tricking your then-fiancee. No, no. You weren't just hiding your true colors until you got her locked down with a ring on her finger and then you're like, nah, never again. Yeah, I did love that soup. It was good. Okay.

So we were getting though into your feelings. Yeah, just having the same conversation over and over just makes me feel very frustrated and like, I don't know, like I'm not actually connecting with my friends and family that I'm just sort of regurgitating happenstance and facts to them. Well, I mean, when you're presented with a sort of interrogation of soup after soup after soup, I think, I mean, I would feel that the implication is they're saying what's wrong with you?

Oh, yeah. Do you feel picked on? A little like, I don't know, othered, a little like, well, how could you possibly, you know, feel this way? Yeah. But what about minestrone? Yeah, but what about? What about consomme?

What about Philadelphia pepper pot soup? Never had that one. Terrell, you say that you miss soup. Do you ever just say, F-ed, I'm a whole human being in my own right? I'm just gonna go make some soup and enjoy it. I don't care anymore. There are certain soups that I have figured out

that I can make for one, for myself. And as I mentioned before, I really do prefer eating as a family. But there are some times when we're not eating together, you know, either out of the house or sometimes on the weekends, I prefer eating as a family, but there are some times when we're not eating together, you know, either out of the house or sometimes on the weekends, rather than have a more, say formal dinner or formal lunch, we'll have leftovers. And so I have some soups that I can put together just for me, you know, so I'm having a one-person

soup. But I think for me, it's more that I want to be able to try these new recipes. I mean, one thing that I have enjoyed is that since we got together is, as I said, I used to make a lot of the same recipes on repeat, and Adam really likes variety, so he's really pushed me to be more creative in our recipes. And so I now try all kinds of different recipes. We probably do one or two new recipes a week. And there's a spring bean soup recipe that I would love to try. And I feel like it is not unreasonable.

I'm not asking him to necessarily eat again soups that he has previously rejected. So he doesn't want the soup all piece to him. He doesn't have to eat that again. But I think rejecting the soups out of hand before we've even tried them once seems hasty. And that's what's going on? Yeah, I don't make them because he says that he won't,

what you say is they're not. What does he say? You can make that honey, but I ain't gonna eat it. No, I say, that's not my favorite. It's like my very white way of trying to attenuate criticism. When you talk about sitting down to family dinner, you're talking about the family of the two of you. Correct, the dog does beg, but yeah.

And Adam, what did you not like about the vegetable soup with the pesto in it? The Provencal pesto. It just fell in the chore soup category for me. What are you talking about? Yeah, what are you talking about? Do you prefer to eat with your hands? I do enjoy eating with my hands. Yeah, I'll pick a finger food. What about a sandwich? Love a sandwich. Great. You know, one of the reasons that we know What about a sandwich? Love a sandwich. Right. You know, one of the reasons that we know that a hot dog is not a sandwich is that you would never cut it in half and serve it with a cup of soup.

Soup and half a sandwich is a well known thing. Soup and half a hot dog. Well, we couldn't even cut it. Living language. Right. Yeah, right. Exactly. That would be a disaster.

So I have a question, Darrell. Why don't you serve your soups with a sandwich on the side? One of my soups in heavy rotation was grilled cheese and tomato. A classic combination. Homemade tomato soup, and I would make homemade grilled cheese, and that has also been canceled. OK, I promised myself I wouldn't other you you Adam, but that is a classic combo. You don't like grilled cheese and you don't like grilled cheese and tomato soup.

Yeah. It's a, it's not my favorite. I can't know if you can tell, but Adam grew up in what he calls a low feedback environment. I don't know what that means. Adam, can you tell me? Just a environment that nobody really talks to each other about things. People don't, you know, discuss the feelings they're having.

You just have the feelings and push them inside and then keep, push more feelings on top and then one day you die. Hmm. Sounds like fun. It is, great fun. The goal, John, is to die before the feelings explode. Exactly. So the sooner you die or the better you push the feelings, the more successful you are in life. Right, right.

And it sounds like Jesse is familiar with this style. I don't know anything about how you were raised, but I was not raised in that style of household. And so it was a learning process for me to, it took a while for me to realize that when my husband says, it's not my favorite, what he really means is don't ever do that again. I hate it. When you say it's not my favorite, does that mean don't ever do that again, Adam?

It covers a lot of a lot of ground, honestly, like it definitely I don't think it means every time don't do this again, but it does range from never do this again to like, and that really wasn't my favorite, but it was fine. And I'll eat it again. Because what Darrell is suggesting is that perhaps your feelings are more strong than your expression of your feelings. Would you say that that's true? Yeah, I think downplaying the feelings is part of the whole deal. Do you think you understand your feelings about soup? Probably not.

Okay, I appreciate your honesty there. Because the reasons that you present are all very rational. It's not filling. Obviously it's not filling. It's not a main course soup. It's not a main course. Rarely is it a main course. Let me put it that way. It's not filling.

It's a chore to eat. These all sound very rational, but you're behaving as though this is a deeper aversion, it seems to me. Does that mean anything to you? Does that resonate with you at all? Yeah, there's definitely something more there than I have not unpacked. In this low feedback environment that you grew up in, was it also a low soup environment? I'd say so. Yeah. Uh, no chili, as we said before, but also no, no green green chili stews or anything.

It was a very occasional meal growing up. Did you have rules in your house about finishing your food? Absolutely. Yeah. For example? My parents coined a term called a clean plate ranger. Sure. I think I was-

Oh, they're the ones who made that up? Oh, no. I don't know. Is that not specific to us? I had no idea. No, it's a well-known term. Oh, okay. I think, I think you need to have a long conversation with your parents about how they gaslit you into believing that that was their invention. If you were not a clean plate ranger, what would happen?

I think dessert was the main carrot. Okay. So to speak. Yeah. And I presume they only gave you carrots for dessert too. Do you think that that played a role in any in your formation of your taste and your dislike for soup? Yeah, it's a good insight. Like I think, you know, if I was done with soup and there was

still some soup left at the bottom of the bowl, that would disqualify me for my ranger status. One of the things I'm circling around is this idea that soup isn't filling enough. It's not satisfying. You need a full nourishing meal is what I'm hearing. And I think that's totally, I recognize it's totally arbitrary about like what counts as filling. Uh, I was trying to think like, does chewing factor into it for me? Like the lack of chewing in a soup. We're not developing an app here.

We're not, you know what I mean? We're not, we're not troubleshooting. You know what the issue is, it's inside of you. Or in the case of soup, not inside of you. You refuse to look at inside of you, or you would prefer not to, it's not your favorite. I get it. Adam, if Daryl held your hand, hypothetically speaking.

Hypothetically. Right, and then looked in your eyes and said, it's okay for you to not finish this soup. Do you think that that would be meaningful to you? Yeah, I think that would help. Daryl, you want to give it a try? It's okay. If you don't finish your soup, I will finish your soup. Whoa. Okay, now it's getting a little spicy. your soup. Whoa.

Okay. Now it's getting a little spicy. Terrell, it's you're suing for two things. One, you want to make soup and you want in a perfect world and the non in the dream scenario, the anti-nightmare scenario, you want Adam to enjoy it. But barring that, you just want to be able to talk about soup again. You feel like there's a gag order on soup talk. Absolutely. I am the one who brought this case, but I do want to state for the record that the way that this came about was we had the soup weekend. It was uncomfortable. And then

I think we were listening to an episode of the podcast. There was a call for cases. And Adam said, well, if you care about this so much, submit the case. I said, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do it. And then he kind of needled me and dared me to do it and said, well, you know, do it coward if you want to. He didn't say that. No, I did actually. I literally said, do it coward. No. He won. And- I'm worried that-

Because I could tell it was bothering her that, you know, it was that this was a rift in our relationship. But I do want to, so I did want to clarify for the record, I am the one who is suing, but he is the one who encouraged us to bring the case up. I'm also very worried that this is coming off like you're horribly controlling us, which is not true. encouraged us to bring the case up. I'm also very worried that this is coming off like you're horribly controlling us, is not true. Adam is one of the most empathetic, wonderful man. This is such a small dispute

in our otherwise wonderful married life. There are just certain topics that he doesn't want his wife talking about in public. And so I'm conscious- Why would that be a red flag? There are certain ways in which our spouses are cowards. Yeah. And so, Your Honor, I want to answer the question

that you asked, which is sort of what relief that I'm seeking here, and that is, I think what I... I cannot compel him to enjoy the soup. I understand that people like what they like, and I don't even want to compel him to eat soups that he has already said that he doesn't want to eat, even though, you know, grilled cheese and tomato soup might be the best combo in the world. What I would like is for him to, in good faith, try a limited number of soups.

We can limit it to, say, two new soups a month recipes. I said to do most of the cooking and we probably do maybe four recipes a week. So that's only like every other week, we try a new soup and if he doesn't like it, he never has to eat it again, but he has to in good faith, try it and then give his, give a genuine opinion about whether he likes it or not. Or, so that's option A, if he is unwilling to do that, then he has to lift the NDA. Because it is very stressful to me now when we go out and the topic of soup comes up, I immediately,

I get nervous, oh my God, is the soup issue gonna come up? Am I gonna say something wrong? What if I mention- Well, now it's gonna follow you for the rest of your lives because everyone's gonna listen to this podcast. You're gonna share this with your families and your friends and all they're gonna want to do now is talk about soup with you. Right, well, that's fair. But if it weren't for this, I don't see how it would ever come up again. I can't tell you,

this is the first conversation I've had about soup in years. And I love thinking and talking about food. But could you imagine if you were out, you know, you're out in public or you're at a restaurant and the topic of soup comes up and the first thing you imagine if you were out, you're out in public or you're at a restaurant and the topic of soup comes up and the first thing you think is, oh no, I better keep my mouth shut because my husband might get upset. What happens at a restaurant when they're serving soup?

Are you not allowed to order it, Darrell? You're allowed to order it. I get, I mean, the reason this came up originally was because we were, during soup weekend, we were at a restaurant and my dad ordered it. My dad is also a fan of soup. I think I probably inherited my love of soup from him and he ordered a soup. It was a white bean Tuscan white bean style soup and I was so excited because I hadn't had soup in a while and I said, oh, can I, can we share? We share a lot of meat when we eat

out. We often will split things. Can we share that? And he said, oh yeah, of course, this is great. I said, yeah, I'm really excited. He was like, why are you so excited about the soup? And then of course it snowballed from there. You explained that soup is not served in your house. Correct. And then he was aghast because he, but you love soup.

Why aren't you making it? And then it turns into a whole thing. So I can order it, but you know, I have to be very careful about how I talk about soup in public, lest it lead to soups being named in Adam's general direction. How would you feel if I lifted the ban on talking about soup,

whether that's explicit or tacit? But I also issued an order to your family and friends to not bother Adam about it. Oh. I think that would be fine. But I also issued an order to your family and friends to not bother Adam about it. I think that would be fine. I mean, I'm sensitive to the fact that it's not always clear what is bothering him. And I think sometimes people are genuinely surprised

at how uncomfortable it makes him when they are talking about soup. I think a lot of people don't Think of soup as a controversial topic. And so when they say to you, oh, what about a corn chowder? That's a hearty soup. It doesn't Immediately register with them. Oh, this is something that's gonna make him upset so I certainly want people to take your feelings into account, but I think there's also a level of self policing that's going on that is uncomfortable. When and how did you explicitly ask for the ban? This was after soup weekend.

Yeah. This was the- Paint the picture for me. The nadir of soup weekend for me was a, we got in the car after going to this Italian restaurant and Darrell and her dad having a nice white bean soup and then devolving into a named soup conversation. And I asked like, hey, could you not bring up soup?

Because it feels like every time we've gone out the past couple of days that soup has come up and then it's just turned into this like nonsense conversation that I really, really hate. It's interesting that you say nonsense conversation as opposed to saying it just makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, there's something there for me about like, it's this like feels like this useless conversation that like, we're not, you know, even if we were talking about the weather, we could at least be like, you know, telling each other new information or something. But there's like none of this is like new information or interesting in any way to me. Can I share something? I don't want to answer for you, but I think you are generally uncomfortable

in conversations that you perceive as not having a purpose. And that is something that has been very interesting to observe because I find that I'm often in situations where people are talking a lot but not saying very much. And it doesn't really bother me. But since I've been with Adam, I've noticed that that's something that does seem to bother you, particularly when you feel like there is a problem to be solved and the conversation is not moving towards a resolution of that problem. That really does seem to be something that makes you uncomfortable.

Do you agree with that, Adam? Yeah, that's a good insight. Huh. So Adam, if I were to rule in Daryl's favor and I were to rule soup talk is back on the menu, how do you, how would that make you feel? Apprehensive about any and all conversation. Apprehensive about any and all conversation. Is this a purposeful conversation or I'm just saying, yeah, we a time waster.

We're working towards resolving this. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good. I just have a couple more questions for you, Adam. Um, oxtail soup, vegetarian, so asparagus soup, mock turtle soup, uh, print 10 years

soup. That's a chicken consomme that turns into jelly overnight. Mock turtle soup. Uh, print on year soup. That's a chicken consomme that turns into jelly overnight. I suppose that wouldn't be for you. So what about celery soup? Yes or no? Uh, well, no, obviously it's a soup. But I guess I could try it.

What kind of soup is that? Anyways, is it like brothies? It's a manhandler. Oh, no, this is a poster It's a manhandler. No, this is a poster of the 21 soups that were available from Campbell's Soup in 1933. I just wanted to see if there were any soups on there that would that would have catch your eye. Adam, aside from soups, how do you feel about Darrell's cooking?

Is there anything else going on that you'd like me to address? No, it's wonderful. What's the favorite thing that she cooks for you's the favorite thing that she cooks for you? Your favorite thing that she cooks for you. Um, I'll let you circle around that for a second and ask you this. Do you consider, uh, food to fall into the same categories as conversation, i.e. food has value when it is purposeful and nourishing, but it has no value otherwise. In other words, soup is like idle chatter. It's not doing the job that food needs to do. You see what I mean?

CB Yeah, it's an interesting comparison. I don't know that I feel that way. I think I love the taste of food and love the, you know, act of eating and- You do enjoy food. Yeah, and the communal aspect of it. Okay, all right. So that's not all just a waste of time. No, no.

That's all just like cultural smog that gets in the way of the caloric purpose of food, right? No, very much, very much not that way for me. Right. So let me see here. You love a giant pretzel, whether or not it's hanging off a hook. You like sandwiches. And we were trying to get back around to something that Darryl makes that you like. The thing that's coming to mind is one of her go-to recipes. One of the first things she ever cooked for me was these Beyond Meat meatballs, and just homemade tomato sauce with some meatballs,

got a lot of parsley in them, some dairy-free parmesan. Just a great recipe that she crisps up the meatballs a bit so they're not too chewy but not too like. Not too just like falling apart. Sometimes they do fall apart and then you have like bolognese but the flavors all there. It's great. Yeah, it's really really really right on the bubble there.

Meatballs and sauce and a meatball soup. I understand. Oh yeah. Especially if the meatballs don't want to don't want to hold together that day Think so. Yeah. Oh boy. Are they good is cereal a soup? Oh boy I would go with no but I am a if I have any milk in there It's an extremely light amount of milk. You just don't like liquids. Yeah Except espresso, I guess. Except water.

And water, love water. Big water drinker. You know what a vanilla latte is, right? I've heard of it, yes. Yeah, it's a three bean soup. Oh, yeah. Think it over. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Daryl, how are you feeling about your chances right now? I have no idea, but I do think this has been a productive discussion. So thank you for having us. Adam, how are you feeling?

I don't think my chances of keeping the soup in the air good. I think, though I agree that this has been a lovely conversation and very productive and I don't think it was, I forget how the judge put it, conversational weather talk. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a moment. Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the show. Can I tell you about a couple of people who have been

on and are about to be on Bulls Eye with Jesse Thorne? I would love to hear it. I love a sneak preview of Bulls Eye with Jesse Thorne. This is, of course, my public radio interview program. I had a great conversation with Christina Hendricks, who folks might know from, among other things, Mad Men. That's one of those people. This also happened with Antonio Banderas,

where when you're sitting like four feet from them, it's hard to form words. Yeah, yeah. So incredibly captivating as a person, actor, and presence. I also had an interview last week with Bruce Valanche, the legendary comedy writer who wrote on 25 straight Oscars, I think. He wrote this book that was about the worst things

he ever wrote on. So if you want to hear Bruce Vellanche talking about writing jokes for the Star Wars holiday special, great news. How did I not know that Vellanche worked on the notoriously terrible Star Wars holiday special? So weird, it's fascinating. That's great.

I need to go, I need to go listen to that conversation right away. Where could I hear it again? That's on NPR's Bullseye with Jesse Thorne. He also talks about Paul Lind's Halloween special. The premise of which was, because they had to come up, they're like, what's our take on the Halloween for Paul Lind? It's basically just Paul Lind hates children.

That's perfect. It's great. Paul in sing songs on it. I've seen it. It's amazing. Seriously, folks go listen to Bullseye with Jesse Thorne. He is among the best conversationalists in the biz. You know it already. Go and enjoy those conversations. And hey, by the way, look, you may not know that Janet Varney and I started a little side project to a little podcast on maximum

fun called E Pluribus Motto. If you've already listened, great. But if you haven't, this is just a fun conversation that Janet and I have about all of the state mottos, slogans, mascots, songs, beverages, mammals, you name it. We talk about it. If you like trivia, this is as trivial as it gets. E Pluribus Motto is the name of the podcast. The first season is available right now in its entirety at MaximumFun.org. We will soon start recording the second season, so please let us know your favorite state

cryptids. That's right. I'm talking about Bigfoots and like monsters in your state. Write to us always at email. Pluribusmoto at maximumfund.org. You can listen to that also at Maximum Fun and get that email address again, because I'm not going to repeat it. Okay, I will email pluribusmoto at MaximumFun.org.

It's an email address that bears repeating. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. My first job in New York City was working at a literary agency. And I was working as an assistant to a literary agent named Susan Ginsburg, who is still there

and still the best. The agency was owned, and I believe he still has a stake in it, by a fellow named Al Zuckerman, an incredible guy. He was Ken Follett's literary agent. He started the agency. Really interesting person and somebody who I believe he's now finally retired, but he worked all the time. In fact, one time he had a small surgical procedure and he walked home from the hospital that day and wanted to get to work in the afternoon. And because his assistant was on vacation, it was my job to walk his mail over to his house where he was working from that afternoon. And he invited me to lunch. So this is my lunch luncheon with the big boss. It was a formal luncheon, much like you and Darrell have Adam routinely. It was at a in the dining room. Uh, and he had brought back, um, some food. I think he had stopped off at Cinderella and brought back some food for a lunch and he and I were not vegetarians.

He got a seafood salad, you know what I mean? Like marinated octopus, which I know that was a weird thing to offer to somebody. I didn't like that very much, but I ate it out of politeness, you know. And there was soup too. And I don't remember what soup we were served. It was probably a minestrone, right? And, um, as, uh, and we were talking and he was trying to get a sense of, you know, what I was, what was going on in my life and my career and what my plans were. And he, he and his then wife had a little dog that was kind of running around the

table was cute. It was a nice afternoon. It was whatever, but I was on my, I was on my best behavior. And I was also quite nervous too, cause this is the big boss. This isn't my boss. This is the big boss, the owner of the company, et cetera. And as we got to the end of lunch and I was sitting there with my more or less empty bowl in front of me, Al said, what, you're not going to lick the bowl? Al said, what, you're not going to lick the bowl? And I said, um, no, I think I'm fine. Thank you very much.

And he said, Oh no, no, I was talking to the dog. And what I didn't realize that he had gotten to the point where he had was done with his soup and had a little leftover and rather it be a crisis in his life. He put it on the floor, but then he noticed that the dog wasn't licking the bowl. And so he said, are you not going to lick the bowl to the dog? But I thought he was treating me like a dog. It was a funny miscommunication, but it reminded me something of something,

which I think is important to remember from time to time, which is that soup is good food, but it's also disgusting and sometimes a dog won't eat it. Sometimes a dog won't even lick that bowl because it really is right in that liminal space between delicious and disgusting. I was sure when we were coming into this that Adam, you were gonna have an issue with the fact

that soup has a texture that is not for everybody and that depending on its, you know, its thickness and its colloidalism and its heartiness, it's, you know, there's a brand of soup made by Campbell's Soup called Chunky. It's called Chunky. It's on theiness. It's, you know, there's a brand of soup made by Campbell's soup called chunky. It's called chunky. It's on the label. It's disgusting.

Soup at any moment. If you look at the wrong way, all of a sudden you realize, Oh, that thin soup is just saliva or that thick soup is just snot. And then you're done. You're done with soup. You don't want to lick the bowl. The dog got grossed out. And so did I.

That's not what you're bringing to this formal luncheon table, Adam. What you're bringing is a more complex set of preferences that are entirely yours and entirely within your right to maintain. I think that it might be worth exploring a little further why you have these preferences and what it may or may not have to do with the culture of the family table in your growing up or whatever. I think that it's something that you're still, it seems to me, working towards articulating even to yourself. And I think it might be worth the effort to talk it through a little bit with your family

or with a therapist or with anyone in your life to try to get a little bit more to the heart of it. You might find some insight there. And I also take your hand, Adam, and look you in the eye and say, it's okay to not finish that soup. And indeed you've got a solution, which you mentioned earlier, a soup disposal process called the dog.

Al Zuckerman's a fan of it. I am too. You are absolutely within your rights to say, it's not my favorite. It's a very polite way of saying, no thank you for reasons that I can't articulate, I don't want to eat it. And that's fine. And I would say this, that now that you are married and clearly happily married and you're, you're both wonderful people. Um, I mean, you used to throw a saxophone up in the air. What, what verve and delight you bring to life.

What obvious care and emotional care you take for your wife and enjoyment you get from her company and vice versa, I believe based on the hour or so I've spoken to you through a postage stamp of a screen. I can diagnose remotely your marriage is good. But one of the things that you have not yet learned about marriage only being a year and a half in is that particularly if you have no children, you can eat whatever you want. I mean, now that,

now that our children are grown up and out of the house, my wife was a whole human being on our own right in her own right. And I only maybe twice a week eat the same thing. And instead it's like, well, I'm going to have this and I'm going to like, I don't care. I'm going to have this. It's a delight. I mean, if you, if you want a formal luncheon, Hodgman marriage style, you don't meet at the end of a long table. You do it great, Poupon mustard style. You just drive up next to each other in your respective old timey limousines and you eat whatever you want. What I'm saying is that, Darrell, you should make the soups you want to make. I understand that the life pattern that you were instructed to adhere to, Adam,

was to force your feelings down much like you were making a pate instead of a soup, you know, layers and layers and closely and then put a brick on top of it and hope you die before you have to express any of those feelings. That's how you were raised, I mean, in real life, you know, Darrell, you were raised in a different way, which is to share a lot of food and take a lot of value in sharing that food. But this is not a value that Adam shares. He does, you know, he will, he has said that he will try some soups, but for the most part, he doesn't want to eat them. And that may just be something that you have to accept, but that means in no way should you stop expressing yourself and enjoying the making of soup. And if he doesn't want to eat it, that's fine too. Like Adam, you're holding Daryl's hand

right now. I want you to look her in the eye and say, it's fine. If you make soup that I don't eat, maybe it's fine. If you make soup that I don't eat. Whoa. I didn't say you should call her baby. That was hot. Okay. That added an extra spice to it.

I like it. Some of that New Mexico chili went in there. What I would recommend, right? If, if it is the case that you're cooking and it sounds like you're doing most of the cooking, Daryl, because you enjoy it. It's an expression of yourself. I understand that you would love to share what you're exploring with your husband, but if he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it.

He does seem like he's willing to try it. And he did say there is no ban on cooking the soup. So you should take them up on that. Just go ahead and make it. My wife, who is a whole human being in her own right. I mean, one of the great things about soup, even though it is disgusting a lot of the time, sometimes it's really delicious.

And one of its pros is that it freezes typically very well. And my wife, who is a whole human being in her own right, has this product, I think, and I'm gonna buzz mark it, I don't care, called soup cubes. It's extra large, like ice cube dispenser, silicon ice cube dispenser, so that you can portion out soup and freeze it and just have soup whenever you feel like it. So the wastefulness issue goes away. And I will say this as well.

You can make as much soup as you like. Adam doesn't have to eat it. You can talk about soup as much as you want. You can talk about soup with your family as much as you want. Until and in such time that Adam acknowledges that soup makes him gag, there shall be no gag order because there's no reason, there's no compelling reason for it, unless it's actively nauseating him to hear about the soup. However, that does not mean that it is fair for your family, even if they are on Adam's side, to interrogate him about soup types. It is now known that Adam doesn't like soup and he doesn't love talking about it. So if the conversation of soup comes up, soup and he doesn't love talking about it. So if the conversation of soup comes up, it is perfectly reasonable for him to be excused from it. And as his spouse, you have to defend him.

If it is getting too hot, you need to say, hey, cool your soup, everybody. We're not talking about Adam's not talking about soup today. Soup is not on this conversational menu for Adam. Let's move along to something else. That doesn't mean that you are barred from talking about soup or that Adam, Adam that doesn't mean that you're allowed to shut down the whole conversation. You can excuse yourself from it and sit there quietly and think about the weather.

Because you can, you are an adult and you can handle the intrusion of some of the things that you don't love in order to enjoy the company of the person you very much do love. But it is not okay for you to be soup shamed. I understand exactly why people wanna ask you about soup because the thing is lots of us have completely non-productive conversations about food all the time. Some of us have just brains that are wired to talk and think about food all the time.

It has real benefits. It has real downsides, but that is just how we do it. But, and many ways I envy you thinking purely calorically, what is the most filling thing I can have? And I would say the only other ruling that I would make is that when you're making soups and experimenting with soups, and you can do them whenever you want, I don't want to be like only twice a month or whatever. Soup should not be shamed nor should add them. But if you're serving soup, you gotta offer a sandwich.

You gotta, it's just not, it just doesn't feel like enough food to him. And it's just not his preferred food mechanism or at least a soft pretzel on a hook. Something, something other than soup as an alternative. So that way Adam's not insulting you by going like, well, I'm not going to eat that. I'm going to go get something else from the fridge. And if he eats something different, that is not what you've prepared, or I should say, let me put it this way.

If you make the soup and he decides not to eat it, and he decides to eat something else that you've prepared or that you've agreed upon, that's fine. You can eat different things It is not a comment You know Your culture the way you were raised your table your family table culture is different from Adams and that's okay And if he's not eating exactly the same thing, it's not a slight upon you

It truly is for whatever reason I still think we don't, not his favorite. Okay, so that's my ruling. Basically, I'm ruling in your favor, Daryl. Make soup, talk about soup, but keep Adam's peccadilloes in your mind. And go ahead and make that corn potato chowder. It's not my favorite, but go ahead and make it. This is the sound of a gavel. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Adam, how do you feel about this decision? Hopeful. I think it's going to be interesting, but I'm willing to try the soups and I'm willing to try conversing about them. We should get you a feelings press to turn your feelings into pate. Yeah. Darryl, how are you feeling? This is great. I'm excited to make soups. I'm excited to talk about soups

without the weight of judgment. And I'm excited. I mean, I'm looking forward to helping my husband in public when people name soups in your general direction. Cause I feel deputized now to make sure that you're not uncomfortable in those conversations. Darrell and thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

JOHN HODGMAN Thank you for having us. DERRALYN ADAM Thank you so much. JOHN HODGMAN It's a pleasure. PETER D'AVOLIO-PETERSONI D'ARBOSI If you want, you can stop holding hands now. DERRALYN ADAM Come on. DERRALYN ADAM It makes me feel less nervous. JOHN HODGMAN Another Judge John Hodgman cases in the books

will have swift justice in just a moment. First, our thanks to Mr. Duck One for naming this week's episode, Boolyabias. We are on Reddit at reddit.com slash r slash maximum fun, where we take title suggestions. Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram account,

that's at Judge John Hodgman. We are also on TikTok and YouTube at JudgeJohnHodgmanPod. Follow and subscribe to see our episodes and video only content. Speaking of users of the internet, I wanna thank internet user, TheFuzz33, who went over to Apple Podcasts to leave some very nice words

and a rating that amounts to not one, not two, not three, not four, but five stars. Thank you, theFuzz33. TheFuzz33 wrote, smart, funny, creative, wise. JJ Ho has given me many lines to use in the classroom to help guide more children toward pro-social behavior. I presume that one of the lines we've offered you, theFuzz33, is shut your pie hole. Yeah. Uh, or maybe something else. I won't put your ashes in the toilet. Yeah, exactly. But in any case, thank you.

The fuzz 33. And if you, that's right. You are listening to us on Apple podcasts right now. Why don't you go and give us a review and a five star rating. If we've, if we've merited it, you can also rate us at pocket casts and you can leave a comment on YouTube if you're watching the episode there. All of these ratings and comments

really do help listeners find the show. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Jacob Derwin at Technica House in New York City. Thank you, Jacob. Our social media manager is Dan Telfer. The podcast is edited by AJ McKeon.

Our video editor is Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now, Judge Hodgman, you ready for Swift Justice? I'm ready. End of an afternoon asks this on the Maximum Fund subreddit. Is a door on or off when it's closed? My husband and I can't agree. This started when I sleepily asked him,

can you turn on the door? Well, the correct phrasing is, can you Spiderman turn off the dark? But I'm trying to think in sort of Logie Twilight Sleep Awakeness talk, turn on the door would mean close the door to me. This is not normal conversation. This is obviously dream logic.

But I have to say I would interpret that as please close the door rather than open the door, turn on the door. And that is my swift justice. And I will, Rook, no dissent. I would love to hear from you, though. I'd love to hear some disputes about video games. We're looking for disputes surrounding video games. It's been too long since we've had a Mario Kart dispute. Does your sibling have to be player one and you'd like a turn as player one sometime? Is your sim peeing on the floor even though you built them a bathroom.

Did your mom babysit your Tamagotchi and forget to feed it? Tell me about all of your video game beefs and disputes. The way to submit them is at maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. There's a simple form there. It'll take you seconds to fill out. And of course, we only ever want to hear about your video game disputes from now on, right, Jesse? No, we'll take disputes of any kind

at maximumfun.org slash JJ HO. No dispute is too big or too small. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Bye. Maximum Fun. A worker owned network. Of artists owned shows.

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