Judge John Hodgman - Brocavore

Episode Date: July 2, 2014

Two brothers have decided to live off the land for a year, but they can't agree on some of the tiny details of their plan.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, bro-cavore. Brothers Edmund and Garth plan to grow and raise all of their food for an entire year, but they can't agree on some of the details of their plan. Garth thinks they should have an exception for things like chocolate and coffee. Edmund says they need to go whole hog. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Plant corn when the oak leaves are the size of a squirrel's ear or when the hickory buds are as big as a crow's bill. Bury pieces of rhubarb in the row when planting cabbage to protect it

against club root. When planting corn or squash in the hills, be generous with the seed to allow for mishaps. Remember the old rule of thumb, one for the woodchuck, one for the crow, one for the slug, and one to grow. And when seeking justice on the internet, be generous with your bandwidth. Do not use wireless but hardwired connections and external microphones. And remember the old rule of thumb, one line for the bailiff and one for the grudge, one for the witness, and one for the drudge. This has been the Judge John Hodgman Almanac. See you next time. Do good work.

And Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that it's not necessary for him to eat,

as he can subsist exclusively on air? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? You're right, Jesse. I am an air-arian. It's not just Victorian girls.

Nope. I eat only locally sourced air. It's great for my skin, and I feel like I have a lot of energy and I sleep real well, but I do fart and burp a lot. These are the trade-offs when you want to live

your life in a ridiculous way. That's why you're known as the windy judge. Yeah. Speaking of which, Garth why you're known as the Windy Judge. Yeah. Speaking of which, Garth and Edmund, obviously made up names, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased, really quoted directly until the very end, as I entered the courtroom? Garth?

I would guess that was from the Foxfire Handbook. Ooh, good guess. I like that. Explain to the listeners what the Foxfire Handbook is. It is a book of traditional knowledge, I think, gathered in the Appalachians, some of which is useful and some of which is not. And it was published during the big back-to-the-land movement of the 60s, 70s, and into the 80s. And may be published today for all I know. But I don't know if they have a website. Let's check it out.

Nope, doesn't exist. All right, Edmund. What's your guess? When you started out, I thought maybe Rudolf Steiner. But by the end, I thought, no way. So I have no idea. Let me be plain. I changed the end when I started talking about Internet justice.

That was not part of it. That was me having some fun. I don't think that existed when he was alive. But yeah, I don't know. Rudolf Steiner, of course, being one of the fathers of biodynamic farming and gardening. Is that not right? That is correct. Biodynamic gardening is considered to be even more strict and stringent in its

procedures than even organic farming. Some would say arbitrary. Some would say arbitrary, and some would say semi-mystical. Was there not part of the biodynamic gardening movement was belief in fairies, right? Correct.

So I would say just plain mystical. What are you laughing about, Garth? Shh, be quiet, Garth. Shh, be quiet. I like Edmund because we're talking about stuff talking about fairies and gardening and I like Edmund because he's talking on a landline right now you are truly back to the land Edmund and this is what this is all about first of all you're wrong it wasn't Rudolf Steiner

and just to bring this is all about. First of all, you're wrong. It wasn't Rudolf Steiner. And just to bring this back to Earth, so to speak, you two are brothers who are having a fight over what percentage of your diet is going to consist of food that you grow and source and hunt yourselves. Edmund believes it should be 100%. Garth believes it should be something less than 100%. We'll get into the details in a moment. But Edmund, you are actually calling from an actual farm on an actual landline, right? Correct. And did you forge this land? Did you whittle this landline? Or did you air dry it like jerky?

Did you make it yourself? No did i didn't do that i would i'm not actually that interested in computers and phones and so i had to buy this one yeah good good that you brought that up real early like all people who don't like computers and phones make sure you make sure you make sure the world knows it right away. I don't really like that stuff. Yeah, we get it. You're better than us. I would like to point out that the phone is not a true landline. It's a VOIP or whatever it is.

I would like to point out that this is my courtroom and you will speak when spoken to. I would like to point out that I'll shut pie holes as necessary. Yeah, will you shut one right now? Shut your pie hole. Brothers always try to commandeer my courtroom to get into their little beefs and play out their little in-jokes without respect for the order of the court. And I will tell you, that behavior will be punished harshly today. That said, Garth. It will be punished like a bat that got into a bathroom.

That means smash with a book. Kaboom. Do you believe in books out there on your commune, Edmund? Or are those also tools of the devil? No, I read a lot. I love books. Yeah, all right. Got it, I read a lot. I love books. Yeah, all right.

Got it. Message received. Hate internet, love books. But I'm glad that Garth pointed out you do use a voice over internet protocol telephone. That's true. Where are you? I can't deny it.

Where is your farm? It's near Cooperstown, New York. Oh, okay. That's the Bases ball hall of fame. Yes, it is. All right. And you get internet there? We do, in fact.

What kind of internet? DSL? It's Time Warner cable. Whoa. That's a pretty rural area, right? Yeah. So, like, we're pretty close to a state highway. I'm glad to hear it. You have this farm in Cooperstown.

And what is your age? I'm 34. You're 34. And Garth, you are his brother? Yes, I'm 31. You're 31. And do you also live on the farm? I do. Does anyone else live on the farm? I do. Does anyone else live on the farm? Our wives and children live on the farm. Do you have separate homes? Thankfully, we now do. Thankfully, you now do?

Yes. What was the situation until recently? A shared farmhouse from the 1850s. So it's an old beater of a house and too many people in it. So, Garth, you now live in like a school portable? No, it's a house that I built that's quite nice. Oh, you built yourself a house. You guys are pretty handy.

And how many children do you have between the two of you? Three between the two of us. I have one and Edmund has two. And how many wives do you have between the two of you? One each. So it's early in your cult compound building experience. We're just two brothers who happen to live on the same farm with our wives and want to remove ourselves from the world

and eat only food that we raise ourselves and rename ourselves the implausible names Garth and Edmund. You can talk to my mom about that. All right, I will. I get the feeling that they chose the name Garth and Edmund specifically in an effort to cut themselves off from the rest of the society. Yeah. All right, you guys, let me get some background here.

How long have you, Garth, and who bought the farm first? We bought it together. How long ago? Four years ago. I guess four and a half. So when you were in your late 20s and when you had just turned 30, Garth and Edmund respectively, right? Yes, correct. Okay.

And where were you living before then? I was living with my wife in an artist residency on the end of Long Island. Very near where I am now, actually. You're not on the farm currently? We're not reaching you on the farm? I'm on vacation for the first time in quite a while. Well, congratulations. A vacation from farming? Do you have a profession? Or do you just go from residency to farm to commune to lean to or whatever?

More that residency to farm to house now. What is your avocation or vocation, your main thing that you do? Cow raiser. All right. So you're taking a break literally from the farm? Yes. All right. And Edmund, farming's a full-time job.

Is that what you're doing up there? Correct. And what do you— I'm watching out. Please finish your sentence. I'm watching out for things while Garth is gone, yeah. And by things, you mean cattle specifically? Specifically cattle and our big garden and anything else that needs doing here, yeah.

And what prompted you guys to go back to the land? Oh, by the way, the answer to what I was paraphrasing, uh, was, um, my, one of my favorite books, I may have used it as a, as a cultural reference or cult ref on this show before it's a old reader's digest book from 1981 called back to basics, which is, which was a reader's digest attempt and meaningful attempt to cash in on the big back to the land movement that, uh, that was very popular in the seventies. And then Ronald Reagan then said, forget that. Just buy a bunch of houses and things. Why would you make something when we can have other people make it for us in

other lands? So, but it's one of my favorite books and it tells you how to make beef jerky. And that's just one of 700 pages. It also gives you some folklore about when to plant your things and what size they should be compared to a squirrel's ear or whatever. It's a good book, you guys. Look it up. Do you have it? Nope.

No, you don't need it. Yep, I got. Do you have it? No, you don't need it. Yep, I got it. Do you really? No, I don't own it. Yeah, you don't need to own it because you're living it. Edmund, what did you do before you bought the farm? And I don't mean before you died. I was a registered nurse. You were a registered nurse?

Correct. Edmund, you're probably my favorite person in the world. Because before you literally buy the farm, you will have done two of the most valuable things a human can do in life, which is be a nurse and raise a bunch of steer and kill them. I mean, be a farmer. and raise a bunch of steer and kill them. I mean, be a farmer. You are, you are, you, you have, you have probably,

you are more in touch with the, with the true, with the true, um, awful and beautiful, uh, tactile guts of life than most people who live. Would you, would you disagree with me? Oh, I would agree. I'm much more in touch with the guts of life than most people. Including Garth, right? No. Well, these days Garth is very much in it as well.

Were you guys raised to be farmers? Where did you grow up? Suburban Philadelphia. Where? Montgomery County. I don't know. Where is that in relation to Bryn Mawr? A little bit. As you can see, it's more northeast of the city. Bryn Mawr is west. Right. The only suburb I'm familiar with of Philadelphia, because apparently there's a small college of witchcraft and wizardry there called Bryn Mawr College that I'm familiar with.

Okay, and you were not raised to be farmers then. This is something that you chose for your lives. Do I have it right, Garth? Yes. Good. And why did you choose to become a farmer, Garth? an office type job after college. And, um, I was out here on Long Island, actually apprenticing with a coffee roaster. And I was considering going into something like that, but Edmund wanted to actually, the original idea was to start a farm producing cheese together. And to that end, my wife and I went and apprenticed in France for a little while making cheese. So it was really just the idea of producing something ourselves. With the coffee roaster, it was more the idea of making,

you know, you take this raw material and make it something really special. With the farm, something really special with the farm. There's the even sort of more integrated aspects to it of taking something from, you know, literally the grass and the land and making a really wonderful product. All right. So you're obviously the poet of the two, right? You're the dilettante. You're the farmer who takes a vacation to think about what farming means. I know what coffee roasting is.

I know what cheese making is. You're working your way through all the artisanal things you can do, and then you finally settled on farming. I'm being a little mean. I don't mean it that way. I'm smiling. Not with my mouth. I'd like you to ask Edmund where he's been for the last eight months

before you assume that I'm a lazy fellow like that. I like that. Throw down the artisanally crafted gauntlet. Edmund, where have you been for the last eight months? Please tell me that you've been in an intensive pencil sharpening workshop with David Reese. No, my wife just finished graduate school in Nebraska. So I actually haven't even been here in New York for the last eight months. What is she finishing graduate school in or what did she finish? Ceramics.

And wow, you guys are hands-on dudes. Yeah. You're a weird combination of hands-on dudes, but also dudes with degrees. What'd you go to college for, Garth? English. Yeah. Okay. Did you ever go to college for, Garth? English. Yeah, okay. Did you ever want to be a writer and you realized that's going nowhere, so I'm going to roast coffee?

I still write. Good. All right. So let's get down to it. Now look, guys, I was pushing you around a little bit, but I like what you're doing, and I think it's cool. And I don't think you're a dilettante any more than Edmund is for supporting his wife. And was it Lincoln, Nebraska?

It was Lincoln. Yes. University of Nebraska. So, but what this comes down to is you, you guys have decided it is not enough to have left civilization behind and raise all of your own things, but that you should become wholly self-sufficient, or at least, Edmund, you believe so, right? I mean, well, I don't actually believe that.

All right. I think that trying to achieve complete self-sufficiency is a fool's errand and i want to demonstrate that by showing how much work it is to try to grow all your own food are you educating so well first of all i just thought it would be a fun and interesting challenge to do until i grow all my own food for a year right but then i also read a couple of sort of like doomer blogs and things like that oh i don't there are a lot of people out there who have this idea that they could just go live off the land if the economy collapsed or something and right it is i feel like i have a

lot of the skills and tools and knowledge necessary to sort of attempt it, but not really. And you're going to show them, you're going to say, look, if anyone can do it, I can, and I'm going to go crazy and starve to death and kill my family. So there. Wait, what is a Doomer blog, if I can ask? Is that something, is that a blog about MF Doom? I don't even know what MF Doom is. I don't know what a Doom blog is. You're talking to the wrong people with your hip-hop references. I feel like we're in very different cohorts.

Doomer blog, Jesse Doomsday Preppers. Yeah, that type of thing. People who hate the government and are convinced there's going to be an economic collapse imminently and that they have to be wholly self-sufficient you remember like that couple that was gonna that was gonna take over the walmart and kill everyone in it and live there if there were ever a nuclear apocalypse remember that couple that we had on the on the in the courtroom sure right fun people like that. Gotcha. So you, you, uh, so you're going to show all those doomsday preppers up, even though, by the way, you're the one who doesn't like computers.

You're the one who's reading all these doomsday blogs going, I got to show these guys and gals. Yeah. I don't actually, I mean, I read a few blogs like that and so I want to put it out there and I'm actually, well, I was planning on blogging about it.

So I guess I don't hate computers that much, but just to show people like, you know, this is my insufficient level of self-sufficiency. You know, this is my insufficient level of self-sufficiency. And so sitting here thinking about economic collapse and all these doomsday scenarios is a pretty worthless exercise, because even I, who am pretty prepared, would have an awfully darn hard time in the face of a situation like that. So what is this all? What is the dispute all about then,th? If Edmund is saying it's not going to happen, you're the one who brought this to my courtroom.

You're saying Edmund wants to eat a hundred percent stuff grown on the farm. Well, Edmund brought it to the courtroom. Oh, excuse me. Um, because I am arguing for exceptions to that, uh,

100% rule. Um, pretty. Before we start about your, before we understand your exceptions, four exceptions to that 100% rule. Before we start about your, before we understand your exceptions, then Edmund, I don't know, you know, what weird nightmare dreams you've schemed up late at night with your candle and your book. But it seems to me you're making the argument that one cannot be wholly self-sufficient,

even on a farm that is run by not one but two competent farmers that are or will soon be raising. And then you sent me a list of 41 items. Beef, mutton, pork, chicken, turkey, venison, potato, squash, rutabagas, turnips, beets, carrots, parsnips, celery, yak, cabbage, asparagus, lettuce, kale, brussel sprouts, on and on, or oregano, dill. I don't think you needed to put dill there. That's a flavoring. All the way down to 41, cattail roots.

And you're saying, I can't live on this 100%, and yet you're mad at your brother for wanting to live on less. Can you explain what it is? What is going on? What is the challenge you are presenting to you, to yourself, to your brother and your family and your various wives? Yes. So I think I'm failing to convey the full nuance of the situation. So I do think that Garth and I will relatively easily

be able to grow all of our own food. Um, what I don't think is easy would be to then continue to do it year after year. It's with like the exact same things that we're growing. And, um, like one of the things we're going to do is we're going to raise beef cause we already do that. But, um, like one of the things we're going to do is we're going to raise beef cause we already do that. But, um, the way we currently do it is we purchase, well, we hire someone who has huge haying machines to come and cut all our hay. So we, even though we might process our own steer, we won't be actually hand harvesting every single thing that we eat. And so the hay harvest there is dependent on diesel and big tractors from Japan and things like that.

So even though we'll be self-sufficient, so to speak, it's not actually completely self-sufficient so to speak it's not like actually completely self-sufficient no right everyone you know this we're all interconnected we're all we're all reliant upon technology to some degree technology is made by other people in other places it doesn't matter what you change your name to yeah and and you know and and. And plus, even if you wanted to be self-sufficient, the ground was going to be poisoned by fallout anyway. And then the giant worms come and eat us all. You're not making an argument that I haven't heard before. So I don't understand what the dispute is between you guys.

If you're saying we can't be self-sufficient on our farm, then I say, yeah, that's right. You are not going to be self-sufficient. So where is the dispute? For our project, I want to be 100. I mean to say to be absolutely self-sufficient. So say that again. I apologize for interrupting you.

For your project. For a project, I want to be 100% self-sufficient in food. And I mean, for one year. And Garth wants to have some exceptions to that. And I want no exceptions. I just want to go ahead and actually raise all our own food for one year. So let me ask you, so that will mean you will not go to the grocery store to get food that you will eat for a year. Will you get feed for your animals? Uh, yes. All right. Will you get vegetable oil from the grocery store?

No. No. You're going to produce your— Well, let me ask you this. You have—your primary thing on this farm is cattle. That's what you sell? Yes. Do you slaughter them yourselves, or do you send them out?

No. Well, we do when we eat them, but if we're selling it, we take it to a local slaughterhouse in order to legally sell it. You are, of course. And that's your primary source of income, correct? Correct. All right. So you are set up to kill these animals. How many head of cattle do you have?

We currently have 30. And you're getting some pigs in? Yes. Do you have, do you have milking cows? Do you get milk? No, we don't. We eat beef. Okay. So how are you going to get, how are you going to get milk? Goats? Do you have goats? Why do we need milk? Why do you need milk? interesting are you a vegetarian are

you a vegan no you're not you need the beef what am i talking about and you're also both hunters if i if i read my brief correctly this is my here's my question i don't care about all the burdock root and the cattail roots and everything else where are you going to get where are you going to get oil that's all i care about what are you going to put on your toast yeah i don't see canola on your list of things that you're going to grow how are you going to get oil? That's all I care about. What are you going to put on your toast? Yeah, I don't see canola on your list of things that you're going to grow. How are you going to deep fry anything? How are you going to... Yeah, okay, lard.

So you're going to get lard from the pigs? Yes. And you're getting the pigs? And tallow from the cattle. And tallow from the cattle. All right, that's good. You can spread lard on toast. You have a real contempt, though, for dairy, it seems.

Why is that, Edmund? I actually, dairy is one of my favorite foods. I just developed an intolerance to it, and so I can't eat it. No, I'm sorry to hear that. And Garth, are you the same? Maybe to a lesser extent. I don't have a bad reaction to it or anything, but I don't love it enough that I'm going to milk a cow twice a day. It's not like either of you would be willing to move to France

to learn how to become a cheesemaker. I like cheese a lot more than milk. How were you going to make cheese to begin with? What kind of milk were you going to use? At that point, Edmund still didn't know about his whole dairy thing. So cows were. Now, Garth. Yes.

You're going to go along with this 100% no-go-to-the-grocery-store-for-a-year plan just for funds? For the most part. I guess I want – I see the project in a slightly different light than edmund please tell me how you see it well i agree with them that i think one of the interesting aspects is sort of pointing out the ludicrousness of thinking you can live off of like freeze-dried beef stroganoff and a pack of seeds when the armageddon comes um i am more interested in sort of the uh or as interested in the positive aspects of it like i'm not interested in being ascetic for the sake of being ascetic but i think that like for example when i've given up sugar completely for

a long time it's amazing how much better, say, a piece of fruit tastes. And I think this whole year is going to be an extended exercise in that and appreciating things that we often take for granted due to self-imposed scarcity. So I think that since part of this is a, you know, we've talked about blogging about it. And more than that, just for our own enjoyment, I think allowing one or two items a month, just outside of it, you know, go buy a bottle of wine or a pound of coffee or a bar of really good chocolate or something, and then see what the experience of this everyday item is like when it's, you know, literally the only wine you get to drink in an entire year. You want the things you take for granted in life to be more special. Is that correct?

I just think that that's one really good reason for doing this. Yeah. All right. So you want exceptions for wine, for coffee, for what else? Chocolate? Not even blanket exceptions for those items. I want to, a rule that states that once a month I can go spend $20 on say a maximum of two items. I'd even be willing to not repeat items. So I get to have, you know, if I buy chocolate, that's the chocolate I can buy for the year. If I buy chocolate, that's the chocolate I can buy for the year. If I buy wine, that's the wine I can buy for the year. And then I want to be able to, and I should mention that our wives are not on board with this. Oh really?

Wait, so this whole time, they're just going to be eating craft macaroni and cheese in front of you. Wait, they're not on board with your, with, with your, with your, they're not on board with your competing life projects for one of you to finally prove to the world that doomsday stepping is sort of crazy and founded on a bunch of false premises and wants to write a screed about it on the blog that he hates. And the other one has a desire to do a lifelong project where

he eats only one bar of chocolate a year so that he goes insane? Funny how they're not on board with it. Are you homeschooling by any chance, or is there any way for regular society to get into your households? We've talked about homeschooling. None of our kids are old enough to homes just be in school yet well first of all homeschooling is great and can be fantastic uh but but uh and but i'm not surprised you have television no no no that's fine your wives however are not on board with

your projects so are they exempt from the projects or is it part of your, uh, your commune that they, they bent to the wills of the, of the twin weird daddies who run the place? They're exempt. They're exempt. And your children, I presume are going to, are, I mean, look, looking at the list of things that you grow and hunt, you guys are also hunters, right? What do you hunt around there? Deer and turkey.

Deer and turkey and wild turkey, I presume. You don't just buy some frozen butter balls and put them up on a stick and shoot at them. Now, I've been through, I've had some venison in my time, but I've never had wild turkey. What's that taste like? It tastes like turkey, but better. How does it taste? It's just more, like, if you think of how huge commercial turkey is compared to a wild turkey. Right.

I think basically there's the same amount of flavor in each, and it's just diluted out in the commercial turkey. So it's still, you know's just a lot more flavorful because they're breeding those uh those commercial turkeys to have gigantic uh uh breasts basically yep like they can barely move around wild turkeys those are lean lean weird animals weird little weird little dinosaurs that live in the grass yeah you got it now look i've never hunted or shot an animal in my life. I think that it's fine to do it. There are those who disagree with me profoundly, but I feel as though if you're the kind of person who can hunt a non-endangered species and is capable of cleaning it and eating it and feeling okay with that, that's your business. of cleaning it and eating it and feeling okay with that,

that's your business. And that's, you guys clean your own deer and turkeys and whatnot? Yeah. You're capable, right? Yeah. All right. Edmund, who's more capable, you or Garth? I think we're about the same.

I wouldn't put one above the other. All right. Who's a better shot if it comes down to it? Like if there's a war between the families. I think I have a little more bloodlust than he does. So I would probably win in a war. You learned that at the Thanksgiving incident of 04. I think that's your doomsday prepper side coming out.

Because all this time that you're reading those blogs going, these dummies could never live for a second on their own because of the Japanese tractors and the fact that they can't kill and gut a turkey like I can. The fact is you're also thinking to yourself, but if it came down to it, I could kill my own brother. All right, Garth, let's just a quick, quick test. You're the one who said you guys are going to do all your cooking in lard. Quick, quick test. What's the difference between leaf lard, fatback, and call fat? Leaf lard is

the highest quality lard from around the kidney, usually. Fatback is basically where you'd get... It's back fat. Yeah, exactly. I think you're going to ace this quiz. What was the last one?

Call fat? Call fat. I believe that's a net of fat that's around the stomach. Yes! You win! All right. I think you guys can do both of your crazy plans. Because I think you're both capable farmers and killers. And butchers and preparers.

It's obviously your business to kill and sell steer. You have thought through the oil in which you are going to cook your food, which to me is number one, number one priority. Anytime I plan for my survival post-apocalypse and or go away for a weekend. When what variety of oils am I going to take with? for my survival post-apocalypse and or go away for a weekend? What variety of oils am I going to take with?

And based on the list of things that you're growing already on the farm or are planning to, you have a wide variety of vegetables that will nourish your families very well. So the question really is, now that you guys have separate homes, why should one brother care about what the other brother does at all? Edmund, why is it bad for Garth to get some coffee from down the hill from time to time? I guess. And then my idea, my original idea was to be super strict about it. And then I wouldn't have to explain all the exceptions and exemptions that I adhered to. Because like the other people who have written books about doing things like this,

like Barbara Kingsolver, who did her animal vegetable miracle, and Manny Howard, who wrote that book about having a farm in his backyard in Brooklyn. Like they did it either hyperlocal like him for, but he only did it for a month during August, which is pretty easy, or people give themselves a big hundred mile radius or, you know. Look, I understand. I understand the impulse, both to undertake a arbitrary but feasible challenge for your life and also make Barbara Kingsolver look bad. I'm not doing that. What are you going to drink instead of coffee?

Water. Sarasperilla? Yeah, probably. Sarasperilla? I mean, I've tried to talk myself into like roasted dandelion root tea, but that just tastes like dirt. Yeah. Garth, are you... Wait a minute. Edmund, you're going to give up coffee. You're going to give up all prepared foods, right? Correct.

All right. And what about your wife and children? No, they're supportive of me doing it, but I don't think they need to and they don't feel like they need to. So are there going to be two meal preparations for every meal at your house just so that you can feel superior to your children? No, they'll eat a lot of what I eat. Yeah. And then they'll just have... So we'll share most foods. we'll share most foods and then when when she my wife or the kids are eating something from somewhere else then yeah i would not eat that yeah part of the meal when they pop

open their cans of moxie soda you'll be like no thank you i will have some well water and uh and so you're not going to drink any coffee what are you going to have instead meth you're growing meth right aren't you growing meth on your farm no that would probably be more lucrative than beef marijuana i presume is part of your crop that you didn't list no none of that either I know. I understand what you're saying on a public podcast that's family friendly. Garth, is it true that Edmund doesn't want to beat you in some way? I don't think that is true, because the original terms as he set them out would have allowed him to buy, despite the brief he submitted, would have allowed him to buy herbs and spices from external sources.

It was only when I pointed out that coffee is basically a non-caloric thing that you started backtracking and taking a harder line. So I sort of, I guess my feeling as to why we should abide by the same rules is that it's completely arbitrary thing we're deciding. I don't think it's, it's at all confusing to say we get one exception a month, especially if we're blogging about it, that'll probably be more interesting to say like i chose with my exception to buy a twinkie rather than i ate sauerkraut again i don't know if i there's gonna be a riveting reading but uh they both sound pretty good so

you want so you want so you want there you want the rules to be somewhat less strict than 100%, but unlike Edmund, do you want the rules to be the same between, not the two households, but between the two brothers? Correct, I do. I mean, I'd understand if you did some sort of compromise ruling in which, you know, we each get to go our own way. you know, we each get to go our own way. But I think it is such a shared enterprise as far as raising all the food and just the whole, you know, it's a whole lot of work. And I think it's better and more interesting if we are playing by the same rules.

Do you think it would be possible to further gamify it? I mean, in addition to just this element where you pick one thing once a month, like could you introduce points? Or like if one brother slam dunks on the other brother, he gets to eat two external eggs. External eggs. I don't know about the specifics, but I'd be open to something like that. Yeah, so would I. I like the idea of gamifying it, and if you're going to gamify it,

can I suggest that it be the most dangerous game? I think you're the one with the blood left here, Jesse. Darth, you mentioned, like, I would like to have $10 to buy a bottle of wine per year or whatever. Do you guys share funds as well as property? Do you have communal funds? We've got, no, separate. Separate.

Separate finances. Separate household budget, yeah. Separate household budget. But you two are in business together, right? And that is the business of raising and slaughtering, well, not slaughtering, but raising meat, cows, cattle, steer, right? Yes. Okay. And Edmund, what do you think? Do you feel that it should be 100% and if Garth doesn't want to go along with that, that's fine for him, but leave you out of it?

You're going to be the 100%er all the way? No, I mean, I would like to abide by the same rules, but I mean, like, whatever you rule, if you rule that we both do get an exception, then I will probably avail myself of them. And if you rule that we have to be strict, then I will be strict. All right. I think, I think I understand.

We need to get it. Yeah. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to hear in order to make my decision. I am going to go out into my open air grove in the middle of the woods. my open-air grove in the middle of the woods that is my chambers and eat my one dark chocolate square and have a seizure. And when I awaken, the truth will become apparent to all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Edmund, I'm going to start with you. How are you feeling about your chances? I feel pretty good. I think there's a good chance

that he'll rule that if we're going to do it, we should just go whole hog and, you know, I'm going to come out on top here. Are you excited about the fact that if you go whole hog in this case, you will literally be going whole hog? Yes, I am. Garth, how are you feeling? I feel like since it's a completely arbitrary set of rules we're deciding to abide by, I

don't really have any way of predicting which arbitrary side of the line he comes down on. If you guys are brothers, how come you talk like you're from different continents? What's going on here? You don't hear that Philadelphia accent? Nobody else has ever said to you, you guys talk in a completely different manner? People have said that they think I'm from Europe for some reason.

Well, it's because of the goofy way you talk. It's a lovely way to talk. It's both goofy and I would say both goofy and lovely. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a minute. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In.

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cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep. That's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10 minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game

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So if there were someone in the Cooperstown, Basesball capital of the world area, or wherever you may sell you may sell, uh, the, the produce of your farm. Do you have a name of a company for your beef? We have a farm name. Yeah. It's Karen crest, like a pile of rocks. I know what a Karen, I know what a Karen is. Those things haunt me wherever I go. There's someone, but everyone doesn't know.

There's someone, there's someone in my life started in Western Massachusetts and now it's turning up everywhere. He's making Karen's wherever I go. There's someone in my life, started in western Massachusetts, and now it's turning up everywhere. He's making Cairns wherever I go. It's creeping me out. Cairn Crest. All right, good. So what you are thinking of doing on your twin cult houses out there in the countries of, uh, out there in a baseball hall of fame country is equally admirable as it is equally arbitrary as it is equally,

equally adorably weird. Um, I am fully convinced that you guys are capable of feeding yourselves and your families without going insane or going starving. And that's great. And I admire that a lot. In many ways, you can tell because of my interest in call fat and wild turkey hunting. There's part of me that wishes I could do the same. There's part of me that wishes I could do the same. And if I were out there in the country with you trying to do the same, I might also try to convince my brother, if I had one I don't, or my family, that it would be a good idea to arbitrarily restrict what we eat or consume to whatever it is we can make at home.

That sounds like a fun thing that only a dude in a farmhouse would think of to do. And yet you have different arbitrary standards. Edmund, you want to go, as you say, whole hog and eat only what you can produce on the farm itself, including spices. Is that right? Do I understand that correctly? on the farm itself, including spices. Is that right? Do I understand that correctly? That's correct. You will go.

Garth did me with it, though, that I changed my standards as we talked about it. Oh, so now you would allow for salt and pepper? Well, no. It was like originally I was going to allow any spices, and now I am saying only salt and vitamins. Oh, you're going even deeper. Yes. Deeper down the rabbit hole that you are digging in your own backyard.

Yeah. All right. All right. So only salt and vitamins from outside the world. That's the only thing you're going to have. And Garth, you also want to do a hundred percent or as you know, close to a hundred percent homegrown food with the exception of the occasional the occasional luxury item, such as a cup of coffee or a glass of wine from civilization. Is that correct? Correct. And Garth, you want it to be the same for both of you. And Edmund, you also want it to be the same for both of you. Is that

right? I think it would be better, yeah. And you think it would be better, if I understand this correctly, because you both have plans to blog about this. And in fact, what this truly is, is beyond just a personal journey for the two of you or individually, it is actually some sort of fraternal fight that you're having that you want to engage with together. On the internet. Yeah, on the internet. Because what I'm getting out of this all the way along is that it's not merely important that you do these things, but that you are able to brag about it through a blog. To A, show up all those doomsday preppers out there and i presume uh the the guys and girls in your english department when you were getting your degree in english uh garth who thought you

were crazy you're going to show them all how great you are and each other which one is better and i also admire the fact that you're going to do it on a blog which is a traditionally old-fashioned way to use the internet. Are you sure you don't want to do it as a use net post? That would be a little bit more to me. So given the fact that given the fact that you both, that, you know, normally I would say, uh, even though you live on the same land and you have, but you have separate households and you and separate household budgets, you should just do whatever you want because there is freedom in the land of baseball.

I would say this. Since you both agree that you would like to have the same rules, and since, Garth, you make the case that there are already arbitrary exceptions to Edmund's purity in the form of salt and vitamins, then I agree there should be some arbitrary exceptions. And I think that what Garth proposes about let's spend one day a year to remember what coffee is like and then we can really enjoy it is sort of fun. You guys deserve to have a cheat day

in the 365 days plus of austerity, not even austerity, of personally grown bounty that you're going to enjoy. And so from my point of view, since you're putting it to me, I will find in favor of Garth there should be exceptions but I won't allow either of you guys to name the exceptions because it's more fun for me to tell you what to do. And this way I win. So, because it's more fun for me to tell you what to do. And this way I win. So I don't care about the budget. This is a one, each one of these things you can enjoy one day out of the year.

First of all, you get a 365 day pass on salt and vitamins. I don't want anyone to go malnourished or under seasoned during this year of personal growth and bragging about it on the internet. So salt is allowed. I'm also going to allow 365, uh, day, uh,

uh, pass on pepper. Since you can't make that at home, you can make at home a hot sauce. I would like you to, I order you. You can make at home hot sauce. I order you to start growing some kind of hot peppers. And... Okay, good. What are you growing?

I forget the exact variety. Do you have apples? Yes. You do. So you can make cider. You can make cider vinegar. Gar do. So you can make cider. You can make cider vinegar. Garth Brew is really good hard cider. Well, yeah.

Yeah. Great. Good. Well, you don't brew it. You just let it sit until it becomes alcoholic. But that's another story. If you're cooking your cider, then you're doing it wrong. That's another T-shirt, Jesse.

Got a million of them. All right, good. So then you can make, so you can make, you can make raw cider vinegar and, and then you can put those hot peppers in there and then you've got hot sauce, right? Good. We got it covered. I want to just make sure you guys have all the basics. You are, you are allowed one bottle of olive oil per year. Oh. Because you can't. How big of a bottle?

What's that? How big of a bottle? A non-commercial size bottle. You can get the largest consumer grade bottle of olive oil. And this is between the two of you guys. You got to share this. Just to make it more punitive and amusing to me. Because you can't dress salads in lard as much as I've tried.

You may have one bar of chocolate. You may have one bottle of wine. So each one of these things you can, now we're getting into the rationing. And for each of these things, it's one day per year. So there's one chocolate day when you get to have a bar of chocolate. There's one coffee day and there's one wine day.

And Garth, those are the three things you were specifically asking for, unless I forgot, right? Those were the things I mentioned. All right. Then, and you can make cider, so that's good. And you can have as much cider as you want. You can have one two-liter bottle of Moxie day. And not, you can, you must.

I don't even know what Moxie is. Yeah. I don't even know why I'm still talking about them because they decided not to advertise on this podcast, but I still like it. You may have one two liter bottle of Fresca must. You must have one. This is getting punitive. You must have one. This is getting punitive.

You must have you must have one ramen noodle day. You actually get two ramen noodle days, one day where you eat the ramen noodles and prepare them appropriately. The other day where you just eat the noodley biscuit without cooking it, and then you have to split the flavor packet separately. Since you are lactose intolerant, I will punish you by you have to have one day of eating bag of shredded soy cheese. One day of eating beef jerky, commercially prepared beef jerky. You guys can probably make great beef jerky on your own, but until you do, you are, you are sentenced to one day eating specifically duck dynasty brand beef jerky, which, which is part is part, because that's just to remind you of,

if you're not careful, this is what you're going to become. One day of poutine. Doesn't that have cheese in it? What's that? Yeah. Maybe you could combine, maybe save some of your soy cheese for that. Okay. Well, that's something you can make at home.

You're going to have all this stuff. You grow potatoes, right? Yeah. All right. Forget poutine. Forget poutine. No, no, no, no, no. Instead, as a Canadian alternative, one day of Kraft dinner.

That is the equivalent of Kraft macaroni and cheese. But in Canada, it's just called dinner. One box of Kraft macaroni and cheese, but in Canada it's just called dinner. One box of Kraft macaroni and cheese, but you have to get it from Canada. You have to go up to Canada and get Kraft dinner. Until you are able to make your own scrapple, one pound of Habersit brand scrapple from Philadelphia. You know where to get it.

And in addition to your, oh, did I say one bottle of gin? You may have one bottle of gin, but no other hard alcohol. And one package of cheese waffies, cheese waffies. That's spelled C-H-E-E-Z- W-A-F-F-I-E-S.

And then you may each have one banana from the Kennebunk Southbound Service Plaza on I-95 purchased from Jonathan the Fresh Banana Man, whom

if you've listened to the internet podcast that we are on before, you will know sells fresh bananas that are like no other. And if you go there, and you must, I'm ordering you to, you've got to take a road trip to Canada to get the Kraft dinner. You've got to take a road trip to Kennebunk, Maine to each get a banana. And while you are there, you can also enjoy one slice of Sbarro's pizza. And other than that,

so that's maybe 15. I don't know. Someone can count them up. That's 15. That's 15 exceptions, 15 days out of the year. And they're not, and they're mandatory exceptions.

And, and you may, and if you do not, and they're mandatory exceptions. And, uh, and you may, and if you do not, and, and whoever does not fulfill all of these orders is, uh, the other brother wins. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Garth, how are you feeling? I'm having some mixed emotions. I feel like I won the battle and may have lost the war.

In what sense? Well, I had imagined picking things that I very much enjoyed, and I very much enjoyed about half of the things Judge Hodgman specified, but the others I could do without. Yeah, this is just a reminder, you guys, that you cannot control your total environment. You think you can, but as Edmund knows, you still have Japanese tractors and fuel oil.

You're connected to the world. Sorry to interrupt you, Jesse. Go on. Let's talk about what you enjoy and you don't enjoy. Obviously, you want to eat the Sbarro's. That goes without saying. No doy. You've been dying for Scrapple.

I do like Scrapple quite a lot, yes. Nothing like a good hunk of commercial Scrapple. So, I mean, that's the main thing. So then you got these apparently Northeastern cheese doodles. Everybody loves those. You're living a David Chang dream up there. Is that the Mama Fuka guy? It is the Mama Fuka guy.

Good work. Thank you. Edmund, how are you feeling? I guess I feel like in a war, everyone loses because I'm pretty much on board with Garth. I like some of the stuff and some of that I'm going to be choking on. Just think about after six months of eating weird wild turkeys and fish you caught with your hands and burdock roots, how good it is, how good it's going to be to be sitting in that rest stop munching down on a Sbarro slice.

What are you thinking? You thinking about going with Roni's? You're going to get Roni's? You're going to get a pepperoni and sausage is my personal favorite. How about you get an everything slice? That soft, that soft, cakey, that soft, cakey crust.

I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, you guys, to make this easier, slightly, I don't remember the number of things that I listed because I made that list clearly off the top of my head with the things that I'm thinking about all the time. Gin, Kraft Dinner, Cheese Waffies, Scrapple. I had Crystal Light on here but I took that off because that seemed punitive and I don't care about it yeah whatever that number if it is more than 12 you can knock off enough of those to get

to 12 so you have one day a month where you have to do one of these one of these non back to the land challenges and just think of how much better your blogs are going to be yeah where you have to do one of these non-back-to-the-land challenges. And just think of how much better your blogs are going to be. Yeah, we'll make it interesting. Is gin a one-bottle, one-day of gin?

Yes. Is it one bottle each? No, it's all per household. You get one chocolate bar to split and one. I mean, that way, this is what's beautiful about it, because you probably would want to get some kind of fancy, artisanal, you know, masked brothers, beautiful chocolate bar with the dark cacao and the nibs and whatever.

But if you really want, if you want to make this right, like you're going to want to get a fun size nestle's crunch bar this thing as big as big as a school desk so that you can actually enjoy it that day those are the decisions you're going to have to make oh chocolate is so scrumptious when it crunches you know fun size i should take it back because fun size is the real small kind but you know the jumbo have you jesse have you been traveling around the united states at all by car have you noticed that at uh at rest stops there now it is routine that they're they're selling uh uh uh snickers bars

the size of wonder bread loaves i noticed that that at convenience shopping spots king size has become the standard size like there's nothing below king size because no longer can you buy a queen or a single sized candy bar yeah because everyone in the united states is a king well everyone gets the king's cut everyone gets the king's cut. Everyone gets the king's cut of the Mr. Good Bar in America. So those are the decisions that you guys are going to have. I'm sorry to extend my verdict into the twilight world of Jesse signing off with you guys, but I felt like I needed to refine this because I'm making this up at the top of my head. And I want the law to be as good as possible.

Once a month, one day a month, you have one sin. The sins are in the categories I described. One thing for both households. So if it's a bottle of gin, think about how much gin you want to drink, the two of you, and get an appropriately sized bottle of gin. I don't care what brand of gin it is. I have a preference, obviously, Plymouth,

but they don't advertise on this show either, so why should I market them? And so on. And then one trip to Canada to get the Kraft dinner and one trip to Maine to get the fresh banana from Jonathan at the southbound service plaza on I-95 in Kennebunk, Maine. Okay. Edmund Garth, thank you for joining us on in Kennebunk, Maine. Okay. Edmund Garth, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you.

Fresh bananas here. We got fresh bananas. Just listen for that sound. You'll find them. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. and John Hodgman and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh

and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh! We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgmanman i could really go for some beef jerky or some scrapple or some cheese doodles some sabaros yeah look the this is this is how justice works you know what i mean like on the one hand it rewards and on the other hand, it punishes. That's why the famous Statue of Justice is a woman with two hands. It's the legend. That was the artist's big choice.

Yeah. And in one of her hands, she holds delicious Haberset brand scrapple. Jones brand scrapple is an acceptable alternative, though not my preference. And then on the other hand comes punishment, which is that Duck Dynasty beef jerky. And I'll eat almost any kind of beef jerky, but that was gross beef jerky.

I can't even blame the Duck Dynastons for that because they just lent their name to some subpar beef jerky maker. And by the way, if you're the company that makes Duck Dynasty beef jerky and you're mad at what I'm saying, maybe you should consider sponsoring this podcast and then I'll say nice things about it.

Try that on for size, beef jerky vendors. I bet that those guys could make their own scrapples. They got their own pigs, right? They could grow a little corn. Yeah, you can. You can. But you know what they need is, if they're really going to do it from scratch, they'll definitely have their own pigs, their own leaf lard, their own fatback, and their own call lard. Their own pig lips, snouts, feet, and scrap

portions. But the thing about, you need to, I don't know if they're growing corn. Are they growing corn? Because you need corn meal. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. They would just have to grow a little bit of corn enough to make scrap. Right, but then they would have to right, yep, that's how they'd do it, I guess. Then they'd have to mill it.

But I guess we've made an exception already for processing, haven't we? If by processing you mean leaving that cider alone in the basement until it becomes alcoholic, then yes. Okay, let's clear out the docket. Here's something from Lauren. By the way, did you know that that's

what Johnny Appleseed was all about? He was helping people drink cider? What do you mean? The apples at the time of Johnny Appleseed were not even particularly edible. Like the kind of apples trees that Johnny Appleseed was planting were specifically for making cider. Really? Yeah, I heard that on the radio, on National Public Radio.

Well, you know what? It just goes to show it pays to listen to the radio. Yeah, you're telling me. Especially National Public Radio. It may not pay to make radio, but it pays to listen to the radio. No, you're telling me. Especially national public radio. It may not pay to make radio, but it pays to listen to it. No, you lose money on that, trust me. Okay, here's something from Lauren.

My older sister Tara came to visit me a few months ago, and we did some baking together. Tara made a fruit pizza on one of my baking sheets. What even is that? I don't know. Sorry, Tara. Go on. Is that like a dessert?

That's like a tart, I guess, right? What's a fruit pizza? Hmm. Keep reading. I've heard of a pizza with slices of pear on it. You go ahead and keep reading while I look up fruit pizza, because I've already made up my mind. Go on. Okay.

Tara made a fruit pizza on one of my baking sheets, and when she cut it up, she left deep scoring in the pan. I think she should buy me a new baking sheet, which would cost $5 or $10. Tara says she'll buy me a new baking sheet, but only if she can keep my old one. Judge Hodgman, who should get to keep the old but still usable

pan? Her or me? First of all, fruit pizza apparently is, uh, it's a dessert that you make on sugar cookie dough and then you put fruit and icing on it it's a dessert it's a dessert it's a cold thing i don't know why you need to call that pizza call it a big round piece of fruit cookie or whatever well it's because everybody loves pizza but nobody likes sugar cookies i suppose that's what it is loves pizza, but nobody likes sugar cookies. I suppose that's what it is.

Sugar cookies are a bunch of nothing. You know, I don't crave sweets, typically. As you well know, I don't have a sweet tooth. I have an alcohol molar, but I like a sugar cookie from time to time. I like a shortbread. I'll eat that any day, because that's

fat. That's fatty. You know what I mean? That's the secret yeah uh if tara borrows your property and misuses your pan by making a fruit pizza on it and then destroys it uh she is obviously at fault and acknowledges so she should return your property to you in the order and condition in which it was lent to her and if if she cannot do so, she must, she is obliged ethically, and I would say internet legally, to replace it with a new exact duplicate as new. The thing that she destroyed, though, is also still your property. So you are under no obligation to give her that destroyed piece of metal,

that garbage pan that she messed up with her fruit pizza. And any bargain that she attempts to strike, you can tell her, no, this is my messed up pan. Just give me a new one and we're square. That said, why you would ever want a pan that had a fruit pizza upon it in your home is beyond me. If I were you, I would let her have it or throw it away because you don't want a cursed pan like that in your home. It's just a reminder of the broken relationship with your only sibling. Yeah, exactly. At the time she made you that terrible thing relationship with your only sibling. Exactly. The time she made you that terrible thing and ruined your thing. The worst.

I'm having a dispute with my son, Henry, says Moira. He has a complete meltdown during most dinners. He recently refused to eat spaghetti because he detected an onion in the sauce. I love to cook, and I don't make anything too weird. My go-to meals are usually tacos, barbecue pulled pork, chicken, and lasagna. I try to limit processed foods and have our family of two eat healthy, balanced meals,

but I often give in and let him have pizza. Judge Hodgman, please order Henry to eat my meals without complaining, whining, crying, or yelling. Now, you didn't specify how old Henry was, so I'm going to guess he's 22 and living at home. Because otherwise, why would you ask me to order him to do anything? If he is truly a child, then you are dealing, I could order him to eat without crying or whining, but that would be a useless and empty effort because a child is only a semi-rational creature. When it comes to table etiquette and development of palate,

it is a slow process of training more than it is orders. Kids just are going to resist certain things all the time, and they're going to express themselves in the most distasteful ways so long as expressing themselves that way proves to be effective. That is to say, if your child whines until you give him pizza, guess what, you have cursed yourself into a life of giving him pizza every time he whines because he'll never stop doing it until he is 22 and maybe beyond. Rather, it is better to explain to your child that the whining will not be successful. And that does not mean talking to your child, but showing and displaying to your child over and over and over and over again,

over and over and over again, dinner time after dinner time after dinner time, that that behavior that is so annoying to you is not going to get him or her the thing that she wants, which is pizza. I don't care what kids eat during the daytime. Dinner is a time when, you know, that's the time where ideally your family is going to sit down together at a table or maybe in front of a favorite movie or outside at a picnic table, but they're going to be together.

It's the most formal meal you're probably going to have on a day-to-day basis. And therefore, the thing that I care most about is graciousness, that the children appreciate that something nice was made for them and they don't complain about it, and lack of waste, that they don't just sit there and not eat a thing that was made for them. Now, there are some parents who have made their kids clean their plate no matter what has served them in order to prove the lesson, like, this is what you got to do. My friend, the great, and perhaps yours too, Jesse, Sean Nelson of the Harvey Danger Band, whose birthday it is tomorrow, happy birthday, Sean. Tells how he was forced to clean his plate or

else he was not allowed to leave the table. And many a night he spent the night at the table, falling asleep with his head next to his plate because he refused to eat those lima beans or whatever. And he's one of the most polite people in the world I know, and not more neurotic than other people I know, although he may disagree. I don't know. But it takes real weird discipline on behalf of the parents that I find to be tiresome to go through that rigmarole. So, instead, I would say this. Whatever you serve for dinner, and it all sounds delicious,

tacos, lasagna, who can complain, give Henry a small enough portion that not a lot of food will be wasted if he does not eat it. Put it in front of him and say, this is what's for dinner. And do not give in to any whining, complaining, or crying.

Bear with it. Hunker down. Night after night, this may be terrible for you, but I promise you after five, six nights, seven nights, maybe 25 nights, some period of time, the message will become clear that Henry cannot change his environment by whining and crying and screaming. I think that this will work. It has been my experience that it does. And you get a side benefit. Not only do you help Henry to develop and expand his palate and the things that he will like to eat, but every night

you will remind him that there is at least an hour out of the day where no one cares about what he wants, which is the most valuable lesson that children need to learn. If you want to submit a case for Judge John Hodgman, we want to hear your submission. Email it to Hodgman at MaximumFun.org or go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. Our special thanks this week to the person who named this week's case. And that person's name is John Giras or possibly Giras. Thanks, John.

Giras or Giras. Possibly Giro. Could be pronounced Giro. Or Giro. Giro. Giro. Giro. Giro.

Euro. Could be pronounced Eurozone. They prefer to be called the Eurozone now. Eurozone. They prefer to be called the Eurozone now. Eurozone. If you would like to name a future case, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. It is easy and fun.

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and we're supported by your donations at MaximumFun.org slash donate. Thanks, everybody. MaximumFun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.