Judge John Hodgman - Butt Money with David Lindsay-Abaire

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

It’s time to clear the docket! This week, we’re tackling BOARD GAMES. And we get some help from a very special guest: Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright and board game enthusiast David Lindsay-Abaire is here! He helps decide on issues of Monopoly house rules, the layout of the Clue board, and how to win at Life! (The board game, not, y'know, life.)David's musical KIMBERLY AKIMBO is on Broadway right now, at the Booth Theatre. Get tickets here!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket. And with me is the ghost of the Cape Cod Coliseum, Judge John Hodgman. Oh, thank you for summoning me. Please use a regular voice, John. Please. We have too much podcast to do. Mother always said Savannah was a trap. David Lindsay and Barry, you know who I'm doing when I do that voice, right? I'm not quite sure. Okay, I'm going to give it up. It's a TV personality.

It's not Vincent Price. Mother always said Savannah was a trap. Isn't that guy from The Moth? No, the guy from The Moth, Edgar Oliver. That's amazing, Edgar Oliver, yes. I know. You use the voice many times on the podcast. I should remember his name by now.

No, that's okay. But I'm very glad that you're here and to hear your voice. David Lindsay-Aber is our guest today. Jesse Thornton, you know David Lindsay-Aber, of course. David Lindsay-Aber is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright. No? No. Why are you saying no, David?

Because it's pronounced Pulitzer. Okay. Classic Pulitzer burn, John. All right. That's fair. David Lindsay-Aber is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright, screenwriter, lyricist. What do you call someone who writes the book for famous musicals? A bookist?

A book writer. Book writer. Or a librettist. That also works, although it's... Or a librettist. And we've been talking to him. I've already said his name five times. David Lindsay-Aber, you know him from his Broadway plays, Rabbit Hole, and the film

Rabbit Hole, and Good People, and Fuddy Mears. and the film rabbit hole and good people and fuddy mirrors and now based on his play kimberly akimbo the new musical kimberly akimbo with music by janine tesori and book and lyrics by let's see here who wrote the oh it's you david lindsey a bear that's me you will probably listeners will probably also know him from my new y Times Magazine profile of him from 2005. And if you are Sam Potts, you will remember him from high school at Milton Academy in Milton, Massachusetts. David, hello. Shout out to Sam Potts. Hi.

Thank you. Yeah. Hello. How are you? I'm great. I'm happy to be here. Thank you. Before we began recording, Jesse Thorne, my co-host and our bailiff, and I learned two

things that i didn't know and this is embarrassing for me because i wrote a professional profile of you and i missed somehow that you were a listener to maximum fun podcast specifically jordan jesse go yes which is a terrific podcast that everyone should listen to agreed And also that you decorate your house all up for Halloween in an elaborate style, rivaling our own house Halloween decoration specialist, Aiden, the young man from Pennsylvania or New Jersey. Oops, sorry, Aiden. One of those who co-runs the Wikipedia for the Spirit Halloween store. What category would you suggest those two states are in together, John? Those are the submarine sandwich states?

They're the pork roll states. Got it. Or Taylor Ham. Or Hoagie. I have to say, David, before we go any further, I have this message out of the blue. Because we haven't been we haven't seen each other for a while and you know only through fault of life and and other intrusions but i got this invitation to go see this uh this new musical called kimberly akimbo

i was like wait a minute kimberly akimbo that was the name of a play that that david lindsey abeir wrote i know. I wrote a profile of him. I like him a lot. Turns out you and Janine got together to write a musical about it. And now it's on Broadway. And I was invited to the opening night. And I've never been to the opening night of a Broadway show before. And if you were trying to butter me up,

you didn't have to. Because the work stood on its own. It was an amazing, amazing Broadway show. Thank you. I really loved this musical. Please, everyone, if you are coming to New York this spring, buy your tickets now and pay twice the price. Whatever they're selling them for. People like to get bargain tickets to Broadway, David Lindsay and Bear.

Yeah. This show's so good, you should pay double. Thanks, John. I know you're not one for plugs on this show, so this is doubly meaningful. Thank you. I wasn't sure you were even going to mention the show. I've been mentioning the show on the show. I know you listen to Jordan Jesse Go mostly, but I've been mentioning it. My recommendation, John, for folks who want to pay double is if they will not accept double at the box office, pay full price, but then sneak in at the intermission. Okay.

So then technically you're paying double. Then technically you're paying double. There's also lots of merch that is for sale in the lobby if you're looking to dump extra cash there you go and it's a and it's a really heartwarming and funny and and moving and hilarious and good show about a teenager who has a condition whereby she appears quite old and um she's going through teenager stuff with a challenging family and then she meets a nice nerd and things kick off from there.

Is that fair? And there are songs? Lots of singing, yeah. There's lots of singing and it is a musical comedy but it is also one that is very touching. And it is called Kimberly Akimbo. And it is playing right inside from the merch area.

When you go by, what's the name of the venue? It's called the Booth Theater on Broadway. It's called the Booth Merch Booth, where you get your Kimberly Akimbo stuff. And if you walk through the doors, you're going to discover it's not just a sweatshirt shop. Nope. There's a show. They also got a show that goes along with all this stuff. Just pass by that. First, buy

a shirt. Then go in and take your seat. Here's another thing that I learned when I was profiling you, David Lindsay and Bear, is you like board games. You play board games. Yes. You got a whole, you had a whole, this is before it was really popular to play board games.

I'm talking about, you know, like tabletop gaming has had a real resurgence among adults. Wait, John, before it was popular to play board games? When was Go invented, John? No, I'm not saying that board games haven't been a part of the tapestry of our human lives across every culture. culture. I'm just saying that it wasn't until I was on the Jonathan Colton cruise in 2011 for the first time that I realized, Oh, David Lindsay, a bear guy. He's he's got his finger on the pulse. Tabletop gaming is really happening among adults these days. And when you, when David, when you showed me your closet full of board games, you know, I had my reporter's notebook there and I was basically writing down,

we got a weirdo, but that's not true. No, I liked board games before they were ironic. How about that? Yes. Yeah, that's right. There was no irony. We just enjoyed them. David, what's the most complicated board game that you play regularly? Hmm. Complicated. I don't know that I like too many of the complicated games. Those are the ones that I, like, look, I didn't play it, but I remember having Catanz explain to me, and it just seemed impossible, all the trading in of things and the building up of things. And that's my least favorite kind of game where my brain has to work too hard. I mean, Risk can be complicated

and obviously involves a lot of thinking, but I don't take those games too much. What's your favorite board game to play? You know, that's hard. Look, growing up, I obviously loved the classics. I love Scrabble and Monopoly and Clue. Risk has been mentioned. Battleship, one of my favorites, and I haven't seen it in a long time.

And I only just thought of this because of your voice earlier. Was the game Stay Alive? Do you remember this game? No, but I'm curious to hear this connection. Well, it was sort of a grid where you would put all of your marbles on the grid and there were little holes under them that your teammates would pull a lever. And if your marbles disappeared, then you wanted to be the last marble standing. But what I remember was that Vincent Price did the commercial. And the last line was, I'd be happy to teach you how to play, but there's no one left.

I'm the sole survivor. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that commercial? That was, yes, I do. That just came back to me. Yeah. I did spend some time watching some YouTube videos of old commercials for classic board games. And it was a real trip.

Anyway, that was one of my favorites. And I know this is a controversial answer and will probably get me kicked off the podcast. But I always did love Boggle. Sorry. I know you hate it. I know. I just don't care. First of all, not a board game.

Fair enough. Not a board game. It's a cube. It's a cube game. Yeah, sounds like it's more of a Borg game. Well, it's the opposite, isn't it? Wow. Yeah, sounds like it's more of a Borg game. Well, it's the opposite, isn't it? Because it's the panic aspect that I loved most.

Because there are a few of those games that like, do you remember Perfection? I was just trying to remember the name of that. And I was like, what was that game that was so scary? Was it Desperation? Perfection and Superfection, which was you had to put two pieces together and then put them in the board. But I actually did bring a prop. And you're madly trying to put the pieces in before they explode in your face. It's terrifying. Anyway, boggles like that. Wait a minute. I thought the thing didn't pop. No, no, I didn't. No.

You didn't set the timer. No, I didn't put in the pieces. It causes me too much anxiety. Yeah, perfection was a quote unquote game in which you had various little shapes that you would fit into corresponding holes on a plastic tray that was depressed and attached to a string. And before you started playing, you set a timer and you tried to put them in as quickly as possible because if the timer flipped or whenever the timer flipped, that tray would pop up and all the pieces would fly into your face

and you'd scream. And it was probably the worst feeling I had. I mean, I'm very lucky if that's the worst feeling I had as a child. But just thinking about it right now made me queasy. You brought it out and showed it to me on camera on our little teleconference here. You're welcome. And it freaked me right out. Perfection.

Here's a case from AJ. Hang on, Jesse. The problem, look, everyone likes what they like, David Lindsay. Oh, here we go. And I love you. So if you like Boggle, go for it. To me, I don't understand how you can possibly say you're making words

out of letters that are going in different directions. What does the direction matter? The letters are still there. If this doesn't upset you on a visceral level the way it does me, then good for you. I wish I had your brain.

No, I love it. The madness of it. The scrambling. It was just... i'm still the scrambling it was just i'm just still just thinking about another timed game the fact that that other game was named perfection i realized i need to talk to a therapist about that because it's i think that may have instilled for me my my true obsession with and terror of perfection i feel like we're really getting deep into both our neurodivergences and neurodiversities and, John, our relationship to our single child-dom. Right. Like, I truly, the only board game I can play would be against my mom and only if she lets me win. Yeah. Perfection is a game that you can only play against yourself.

Put that on some merch. Can we sell it at the Booth Theater? Done. Can we have a Judge John Hodgman pop-up shop next to the Kimberly Akimbo stand? Yep, on it. Perfection is a game you only play against yourself. Well done. Board games do speak to some deep, atavistic, visceral impulses, and we're going to explore

some of them now, and I hope to spend some justice. Bailiff Jesse Thorne. Here's a case from AJ in Brooklyn. A few years ago, my wife and I were playing the board game, The Game of Life. When the game ended, she had more kids, but I had more money.

Each of us thought we had won. We're still uncertain about who actually won and what's considered winning in the game of life. Do you know? Did you ever play the game of life, David Lindsay-Aber? Yes. And I only have one photo of my brother on my desk. And look at this. What?

I don't know if you can see it. I know this is silly for a podcast, but it is my brother holding up the game of life, which he got for Christmas that year. And we played it. And this is his 40th birthday party. That's his 40th birthday party. Yes, that's right. No, he's probably 11 in that picture. He really loved the Game of Life and you played it. Many times. Mine was not a Game of Life household. And I think it's because in the ads, I was familiarized enough with the game that i know that you your token was a car and and you accumulated family and in the ads one of the things that they always said is like i had twins and i think my sibling aversion was so strong that i wanted nothing to

do with that game you were worried you'd have to share resources i had never had to share a backseat of a car in my life and uh and nor was i going to even in this game so david lindsey a bear this is a grim game that follows you from birth through career major life choices you can end you can end up being becoming a movie star or inheriting a skunk farm. And the end game is the grave. I mean, they call it retirement. But none of this sounds fun to me. Why did you like this game?

Well, I didn't love it. I said I played it a lot, but I found it deeply problematic. And I was not so interested in picking up a bunch of kids. And I would always take whatever route was not so interested in picking up a bunch of kids and I would always, you know, take whatever route was not that route. So, yeah, it wasn't one of my favorites. I think, you know, my brother got, we were very young. So it seemed like this is designed for grownups or something. It was not something that I was interested in. Could you choose like a dual income, no kid route on the game of life? I think so. I remember ending the game without children in my car most of the time. It seemed like the whole thing was very organized

around reinforcing some pretty patriarchal middle, what they would call middle class values. For sure. You have kids, you make money money i remember in one of the ads a kid kind of sighs and goes i wish i had bought insurance this doesn't seem fun to me yeah it does not necessarily reflect my values is there is there a pathway in the game of life where it's like you can choose you can choose to pursue a life in the theater? It's not on there. As you did? No.

It's not on there, right? No. I'd choose drinking problem and third divorce. I don't remember that part. I think that that would probably be a pretty, an addendum to the game of life would be pretty good. Great. The kid throws his fists up in the air.

I want a Pulitzer. Well, who wins? The person who has the most kids or the person who has the most money? That's the question from AJ in Brooklyn. What is your opinion, David Lindsay of Bear? Or what is the facts? I don't know what the rules are. Well, if I do remember, I mean, I think it is adding up how much money you have at the end. But I think if you have kids, then for every kid you turn over what's called a life tile, which is given a money value. So I think it's a pretty straightforward answer that you add up the life tiles with whatever stack of cash you have at the end. Unless I'm misremembering the game, but that's what I remember. Oh, so whoever has the most life tiles at the end wins?

Well, a life tile is given a value of money. Like this, whatever it is, this life tile is worth $10,000 and add it to your pile. Yeah, my kids are not worth $10,000. Nor mine, nor mine. There are a variety of life tiles you can get, which all translate directly to money

at the end of the game. Got it, Got it. If you have children, that's worth money. And, of course, if you retire at millionaire estates, you have the chance to receive four additional lifetiles if you are the richest person to retire there. And whoever has the most lifetiles wins, right? And then they get shot out of the middle of the theater, like in Logan's Run, and they

renew and they get another body or something. You have your money. All the lifetiles are worth money. You add it all up. And then I'm just looking at the wiki for the game of life. After the part about adding up your money and the player with the most money wins the game, it says, playing by the rules. Sometimes life doesn't work out the way you want it to. And that's also true in the game of life.

Even if you do not get the salary you want or end up with a car full of kids, you must continue to play by the rules. continue to play by the rules. If you try to cheat your way to success in the game, just as in real life, you will find that you will probably fail before you reach the top. Wow, that's dark. Not only inappropriately unfun for

a game, but also a pack of lies. A pack of lies. No, people who play by the rules succeed all the time if your value is making enough money in millionaire estates. Here, the only good thing about the game was the spinner. Yeah. The thing that I remember most vividly about the game of life is the tactile experience over there at Jody Scott was my friend that had the game of life of the ridges on that white plastic spinner and the clickety clack as it turned like a carnival game wheel. David Lindsay-Aber just held one up to the screen.

Yeah, this was it. You came with props. Well, I didn't care at the top of the podcast. There are a few games that I had as a kid that we actually have in the house, and this is one of them. And this spinner is not nearly as satisfying as the one that I had, but I'll do it. But it doesn't sound the same. Yeah, it's not very good. It's okay.

You ever play the game of Sorry with the pop? No, that's Trouble. Oh, right. Which is right here. Trouble had the, the dice popping mechanism. The Pop-O-Matic. The Pop-O-Matic. That's right. This is the end of my props.

Are you tired of manual popping? Well, great news. I loved it. That was the best thing about Trouble. There were several Pop-O-Matic games. There was also Headache, and there was Double Trouble. That's Jesse's favorite game. Headache.

Yeah, I still play Headache to this day. Sorry, Jesse. I think I might have given you an apologies. No, those kinds of game design innovations could move a lot of units. I don't think anyone played Trouble because of the game design. I certainly played Save the Whales because of the handsome pewter humpback that came with it. It was a cooperative game. The goal was to save the whales.

Nothing has ever been more 1988 than that. Right. It came with some sun-dried tomatoes and a kiwi fruit. If you want to play Trouble without the Pop-O-Matic, then it really pretty much is Sorry. It's the same game. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the only reason that people bought Trouble

was for the Pop-O-Matic. Otherwise, it was a literal Sorry knockoff of Sorry. And they're both knockoffs of Parcheesi, I would say, right? Oh, well, save the Parcheesi talk for later. We got a lot of the cheese coming. But what are we saying to AJ here? Oh, we'll save the Parcheesi talk for later. Okay. We got a lot of the cheese coming, but what are we saying to AJ here? Oh yeah. The rules of the game of life are they who dies with the most toys,

AKA the most money wins like that old crummy poster that you would see in a frat house. That's the rules of the game of life. And the other rule of the game of life is the game of life wants you to play by the rules because that's how they get the suckers. The rules are for you, not for the game of life. So in my opinion, if your values, AJ's spouse, are to have love and family, then you won. But technically, AJ won because AJ got the most money. Here's something from Hayden in Long Beach. My brother Shane and I have a dispute about scattergories. In this game, you get prompts such as vegetables or places you go on vacation. A 20-sided die provides a random letter.

Then you list things that start with that letter for each prompt. So for vegetables, you might say kale if you rolled a K or beans if you rolled a B. In this case, first of all, beans are legumes. Yeah, I was just about to say we're going to get a lot of letters. Don't get Jesse started on beans. Big, fat fat juicy beans. That's my favorite part of waiting for Guffman. In this case, the category was things babies use. We rolled a G.

My brotherane said gloves we argued about this until the whole room was uncomfortable do babies use gloves david lindsey a bear do babies use gloves i mean babies can use anything but that no that seems silly it should be specific to babies, right? Yeah, I'm not sure that babies... Let's put a pin in that. Do you play scattergots? No, they don't even use gloves. You'd put mittens on a baby. You can't get those tiny little fingers into a glove. That's a ridiculous answer. Wait a minute. Do you know about Rich Uncle Pennybags, the mascot from Monopoly? Go on.

What about a baby version of him for Monopoly babies? Yeah, what if there was Monopoly baby edition? What then? What if it was rich nephew penny bags and he wore little gloves and a tiny top hat? And a little evening gloves, white evening gloves, and he's like going around saying goo-goo-ga-ga capitalism. Yeah, what if top hats started with G? capitalism? Yeah, what if top hats started with G? Then baby

moneybags would wear it, and it would start with G, and it would be a perfect example for this game. What about that? I can't think of a thing that babies use that starts with G that isn't gloves, honestly. Can you, David Lindsay, a bear? I'm not good at this game's categories myself.

No, I'd fail. Something he's used. I mean, you say google you're trying to figure out how you say google figuring out garage door opener that's what they do yeah galoshes carburetor a carburetor galoshes gnomes giraffe a toy giraffe a baby a baby might use well it was a tough one i would say i would say guess what hayden that was a tough god's providence i was that god or whatever sure providence that would be if like the baby wanted to survive babyhood in the middle ages or something would use god's providence yeah were you playing middle ages categories hayden or present day categories uh it is of course categories is one of the oldest

games it's been played since since the persian empire no it was invented in 1988 and that's a tough one i get i you're right you got a tough one there. Hayden Shane did the best Shane could, but Shane was wrong. Babies don't use gloves and note to listener kit. You are right. You also had a scattergories dispute and kit. Guess what? You win this one. And the topic of fictional characters,

starting with G again, your husband, Nate was wrong to suggest George, the great gangly galloping Grape Gorilla because he had just made that up on the spot, and that doesn't count. Nate was saying, well, it's a fictional character. I just made him up. It's got to be a pre-note.

No. Boo, right? Boo. Yeah, it's not. Out. And he was trying to get those extra points by putting in all those extra Gs. No. The correct answer would be Glove Baby.

Glove Baby. Exactly right. I'm going to do one better. I would say the top fictional character starting with a G, God. I look forward to your letters. Wow. Wow. We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners

and avoid lightning bolts. Yeah. We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week

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Here's a case from Corey in Arlington, Virginia. Growing up, I was never able to finish a game of Clue. My cousins always insisted the characters could only enter and exit rooms through open doors. I argued that any door printed on the board is usable. I believe the visual distinction is only to provide variety on the board. They argued the game designers would not have included both open and closed doors if they didn't intend for there to be a difference between the two. Who is right? David Lindsay-Aberry, you ever play the game of Clue? Yeah, a lot.

Yeah. Clue-do, they call it in the UK. Do you know why? I don't know why. I don't know why. Because they haven't got a clue. Well, I think probably they already had a clue. They had to have had some other clue,

and through British copyright they couldn't. I don't know, but if you know why, listeners, please write a letter to Hodgman at MaximumFun.org and explain why Clue is known as Cluedo in other countries. That's why Tim Curry had to move to America. I never saw the movie Clue, not even one of its endings. Very funny. It's very funny.

Really? Okay. Madeline Cullen especially is very good. It takes a long time to get started. That's something you don't remember when you only remember it from your childhood. That's something you don't remember when you only remember it from your childhood. Just sitting back in 1987 eating a kiwi is, boy, does it not get funny for half an hour. Okay. So much exposition. Include, what character did you like to play?

David Lindsay of Bear. Who would you grab? Colonel Mustard every time. Colonel Mustard every time. Yeah. Did you have like the edition, we had the photographs on the front. The 1970s edition,

they had actors posing as these characters. And I remember Colonel Mustard did some sweet mutton chops. That's what I love best, those mutton chops, yeah. That's exactly the edition that I had. Yeah. Who'd you like to play, Jesse Thorne? Have you ever played?

Miss Scarlet all the way. Miss Scarlet all the way. Miss Scarlet all the way. Ironic. Our audience at home can't see this. David Lindsay-Aber right now wearing Scarlet. I am wearing mustard. Huh. I am wearing blue, which would make me Mrs. Peacock.

Yeah, Peacock. And Valerie Moffat, who is editing and producing this episode, did you ever play Clue? I have played Clue one time in college, and I remember almost none of it. Did you remember what character you played? No. I think I would have gone for a Colonel Mustard just for the sideburns. But no, yeah, I don't remember, unfortunately. According to this, Mrs. Peacock, and by this I mean the internet, the Wikipedia page.

Mrs. Peacock has an immediate advantage of starting one space closer to the first room than any of the other players. That's just a little clue hack out there for people. But I would always play Professor plum because um nerd yeah always you looked at the variety of characters and thought which of these knows it all that's right which of these which of these people looks most likely to never be threatened with a hug or a kiss from anyone to and to live and to live his life in complete asexual seclusion. And maybe in a house with a turret and some Edward Gorey prints somewhere and Kate Codd or something like that. That was my dream, Professor Plum. In any case, what do you think

about this question, David Lindsay-Aber? Well, I'm trying to remember. I think we used all the doors. I feel like the walls were clearly marked. Yes. And that there was an open space, whether the door was open or closed on the board, there was an open space to enter. That's how I remember it, at least. Do you remember, how many of the rooms can you name off the top of your head?

Oh, gosh. Do you really want me to start listing them? The hall, the ballroom, the conservatory, the library, the kitchen, the billiard room, the dining room, the study, aviary. No. But there was. Apiary. You're one away.

This is amazing. Oh, I am? Is there a music room? Wouldn't that be the conservatory? Oh, yeah. That's exactly right. Have you said the ballroom? Maybe you said it and I missed it.

Oh, yeah. Then you got it. Then you won. I'm sure I missed a couple, but okay. Thank you. No, no, no. You didn't miss it. You didn't miss a single one.

The kitchen. Did you say the kitchen? I thought I did. Yeah. I think you said them all. Oh, here comes one. The lounge. I didn't say the lounge for sure. Did I say the kitchen i thought i did yeah i think you said them all oh here's comes one the lounge i didn't say the lounge for sure yeah did i say the library i might have missed the library too no no you said the library okay and then you probably don't have enough travel points

for the lounge i think you're right you're right yeah that the door the door to the lounge is closed to those of us who are no longer Diamond Medallion members. Now I'm merely a Platinum Medallion member as of February 1st of this year. I'll talk about that later. But I am looking at the 1970s era board that you and I would have used David Lindsay Abare. And it's very, there are no, it's basically gaps in the walls with the word door. And then when I look to the 1980s version, there are many doors and but and they are all closed, but they are in the same places. What Corey is describing here that there are some doors that were open and some doors were closed.

I don't see that at all. In the 70s, they were all open. There were no doors at all. In the 70s, they were all open. There were no doors at all pictured. In the 80s, there are doors in all those spaces and they are closed, but there are no open ones. You had to go through those doors. I think this is a clear case of cousin malfeasance. I think our big mistake here, seeing that Corey is from Arlington, Virginia, is not asking my aunt, Arlington, Virginia-based real estate agent, Debbie Miller, lifestyle transition specialist. If you've got a lifestyle transition coming up in Northern Virginia or a parent does, Google Debbie Miller. She'll help you out. Here's the lifestyle I want,

Jesse. Maybe she can help me out with this. I want a lifestyle where I have a house that has a library and a study and a lounge. There are too many rooms in this place. Too many rooms. No wonder they got up to murder. David Lindsay-Aber, did you like the game of Clue? Oh, yeah. I really liked it a lot. Yeah.

What was your favorite murder weapon to fondle? I found the candlestick quite satisfying. Yeah. Got to be a sperm whale, right? No, I don't think they introduced that till later. It was later, yeah. I was always a lead pipe guy. Okay.

Or the rope had a good feel. Had a nice ridge to it. Had a nice ridge to it. Yeah, but the rope was the only one that was not metallic. It's plasticky. Oh, right. It's nice ridge to it. Yeah, but the rope was the only one that was not metallic. It's plasticky. Oh, right. It's a plasticky beige. Top token in Monopoly. We're going to get to Monopoly

after the break, but top token. You want to think it over or do you know it right off the top of your head? I mean, off the top of my head, I think top hat of course. Top hat like a baby wears? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, before we get to Monopoly, I think we got some scraps., by the way, Corey, your cousins were lying to you, as cousins always do. word and say something like, I think this is a word. My mom then asks what I think it means. I take a guess. She shakes her head and says, no. And I withdraw the word and play my pathetic

backup word. Later in the game, my mom will play the same word, smugly giving the correct definition. Judge, this has led to some of the worst fights my mother and I have ever had. I now refuse to play with her. Please rule the only requirement for playing a word in Scrabble is that the word appears in the Scrabble player's dictionary. David Lindsay-Bear, I saw you shaking your head as you listened to this plea from Anna in Chicago. What's your reaction to this? Well, I'm sure her mom is a delightful person, but this question infuriates me. No.

Are you? No, it makes me very angry. I'm not. This question is horrible. It is not a game of definitions. There is a rule in Scrabble that if you want to challenge it, you challenge it, and then you go to the dictionary. At no point living, but they taught me a lot of things. This is my family. Jesper was from Denmark originally, and they lived next door to us in

Brookline, Massachusetts. And David Lindsay and Bear, they celebrated Christmas. And when they celebrated Christmas, you know how they lit their Christmas tree? Go on. Live candles. Yeah, I was afraid you were going to say that. Live candles. They do it right in Europe. They knew how to do it right. Madness. Of course, it was totally bananas, and yet they did it. It was one of the most beautiful things I ever saw. And the candle holders that they would hang on the branches of the tree had counterbalances, So they were always upright. I don't think you can buy those anymore. They're like lawn darts. We're not allowed to have nice things in this country. Anyway, one of the nice things they had was Scrabble. They played Scrabble and they took no prisoners. But when

they were teaching their kids to play Scrabble, it was a rule that you could play a word. If you weren't sure how to spell it or what it meant, you could look it up in the dictionary and play that word. That way it was a learning tool. You gained vocabulary. But nowhere in the Scrabble rules does it say you have to know the definition of the word that you're playing. How are you on your two-letter words, David Lindsay, a bear? Pretty good.

Pretty good. Would you say you're okay? Ooh. Also not acceptable two-letter word, I don't believe. I approve. Oh, okay. On the joke, not in the word, but that's all right. Yeah, that was a good joke, I have to admit. Yeah. I remember that O-E, O-E.

We am okay at it. Me and Jordan are okay at it. O-E, O-E is a two-letter word that I believe means a kind of a wind. It describes a certain wind. Okay. And Al, A-L, is an acceptable term. It's an East Indian tree. An East Indian tree.

There we go. I was going to say like a branch of a tree because I don't remember. Oh, maybe I'm wrong. No, I bet you're right. Al definition. Well, this feels like a game right now. I'm getting tense. I hope I win.

Al is a, well, you know what? I'm almost certain that you're correct. You're right. When I look it up on the internet, it says, yes, Al is a Scrabble word and is worth two points in Scrabble and three points in words with friends, which I do not recognize because as I've said before, there is no words with friends. There's only Scrabble with enemies. Yeah.

And that Al is a valid scrabble word. And then it says nothing else because the definition does not matter. Does not matter. And this mom that you have Anna out there in Chicago, this mom should know better. Don't you agree David Lindsay a bear? Yeah, and I think she does

know better. I think she's just wanting to win yeah she knows what she's doing but this is i mean you know like like this mom is out here teaching her daughter that she's supposed to know the definition of the word in order to play it that's not that's not the rule that's not even the unless it's the house rule but anna doesn't know if it were the house rule it would be agreed right? It would be like, this isn't the rules, but this is the way we play. The way the Rosenmeyers would play it, you can look up a word in the dictionary if you aren't sure how to spell it. Because we want you to learn words.

Because you're children. If this were a mom saying to her daughter, and I don't know Anna's age, but like her child saying, you know, we're only going to play it if we know the definitions of the words, because that's how we're going to learn vocabulary. That would be one thing. But as far as I know, Anna is an adult and her mom has been lying to her entire life about the rules of Scrabble. You know, the worst part of that story, though, is that the mom then puts down the same word and gives the proper. That's just diabolical. And then says, oh, here's the real then puts down the same word and gives the proper, that's just diabolical, and then says, oh, here's the real definition. That's just horrible.

Well, I agree that cruelty is definitely a part of Scrabble. There's no question about that, but this is cruelty based on misdirection. That's not, it's not fair, Anna's mom. And look, you're punished. Anna won't play Scrabble with you anymore. Was it worth it? I'm going to go so far as to, and this is,

I've never done this on the judge, John Hodgman podcast. Oh, I'm going to tell all the Scrabble players in Chicago, stay away from Anna's mom. Anna's mom, you are banned from all the Scrabble tables in Chicagoland. You want to get a game going, a Scrabble, you might have to go to Indiana, you might have to go to Wisconsin.

She's going to have to become a riverboat Scrabbler. Until she gets found out. Scrabblers talk. That's what they said in Poker Face. Scrabblers talk. Banned. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll have a case about Parcheesi.

And what about something called butt money? Butt money. B-U-T-T money. So good. When I turn in that lifestyle, I'm going to win. You automatically. Yep. Yeah.

Automatic win. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. you and remember no running in the halls if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-o-d-c-a-s-t-i hmm are you trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-tT-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, it's March. That is big news for us. Yep.

Rabbit, rabbit, as they say. March is here. And that means March madness. And we've got a real doozy of a bracket. Is it a sports bracket, Jesse? No, sir. It is not a sports bracket. Why would anyone bother with a sports bracket during March Madness when they could focus on a much,

much more important bracket? Weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks ago, we have a listener named Jared from New York who wrote in asking this podcast to pronounce a certain song, Empire of the Clouds by Iron Maiden, the best song about Zeppelin's blimps or airships. Now, it's a great song, and that might be true. But as I said back then, and I'm saying again now, how can we know unless we vote on it? So we've created a March Madness style bracket of 32 songs about blimps, airships, balloons, any lighter than air travel. Some of them are a little bit of a stretch. They're all submitted by you, the listeners. And now's your chance to vote on them starting right now. So Marie Barty from our friends, the Blank Check podcast, put together this bracket. You can find it on all

our social media. You'll find the links on our social media, at Judge John Hodgman on Instagram, facebook.com slash judgejohnhodgman, maximumfund.reddit.com. It's going to be a real bonanza. All my money is on the Drexel Dragons, but we'll see who comes out on top. There's going to be four polls a day between March 1st and 4th, then two polls a day from March 5th through 11th, then our final poll on March 12th. And we'll find out what the greatest song of all time about lighter-than-air travel is. We're going to get to announce it in the second week of Max Fun Drive. It's going to be very exciting. And I just want to thank everyone who already voted.

I did do an initial poll as to what we should call this blimp fight to end all blimp fights with a March Madness theme. I want to thank everyone who voted. Some of you suggested things such as Float Cella or Blimpboard Hot 100 or March Dirigible Derangement. But as of this count, 69.7% of you agreed that this is to be called March Oh The Humadness. March, oh, the humadness. Only 17.58% of you thought it should be the much more clear March, oh, the humanity-ness.

Though we're calling it March, oh, the humadness. So get on the socials, find those, whether it's the Facebook group, whether it's the Reddit group, whether it's our Twitter accounts, you'll find the place to vote. Get out there and vote. We'll get it done. I'm kind of thinking Up, Up and Away is going to be Fifth Dimension. Up, Up and Away by the Fifth Dimension is indeed in this first round of voting. And it's up against The Blimp

by Captain Beefheart. So when you go to the polls, when you go to the polls, you can listen to all the songs because we have links to all the, to all the YouTube videos for the songs. So you can decide for yourself. So I know who I'm voting for in that one. Do you go to the polls and thank you, Marie Barty for pulling this together after I was incapable of doing it after weeks and weeks and weeks, Marie was able to do it in 24 hours. It's incredible. I have mentioned several times in this

episode. Uh, Kimberly Kimbo is one of the. It's incredible. I have mentioned several times in this episode, Kimberly Akimbo is one of the best Broadway musicals that I have seen in a long, long time. And I really love it. And you should check it out. If you get through to New York, check it out. But this message is specifically for Tony voters. If you are someone who votes in the Tonys,

just, look, you know what to do. Just vote Kimberly Akimbo straight up and down the ballot for in all categories, best everything. I also want to reiterate that our friends, Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson Lopez who have been on this show. And so they're your friends too. I've created this wonderful show on Hulu called up here in which I play a small part.

And yet nonetheless is some of the most fun I've had on camera ever. Because this is the best cast assembled, I'm going to say it, Jesse, since Bored to Death. Wow. The fun and the chemistry that these people have and the quality of their performances. Holy guacamole. Mae Whitman, Carlos Valdez, Kenny Finneran, so many more. Broadway legend Brian Stokes Mitchell is showing up. It was just such a delight and I think you're really going to enjoy it. And I really, really do hope you check it out on Hulu, March 24th. All eight episodes will be

released on March 24th. And I hope you tell some friends about it because it's a really special show and I really had a great time making it and I hope you will enjoy friends about it because it's a really special show and I really had a great time making it and I hope you will enjoy it too. Jesse Thorne, what do you got going on? Some special guests on Jordan, Jesse Go. This past week, we had the great Sam Riegel, one of the stars of Critical Role, one of the internet's most popular YouTube shows

slash podcasts slash adult animated series for Amazon Prime slash whatever else. One of the Internet's great guys as well, Sam Riegel. And this week, his competitors and bitter rivals in the field of podcast Dungeons & Dragons games. Yeah, that's right. They actively hate each other. The McElroy brothers. All three McElroy brothers are coming on Jordan, Jesse, Go! together this week. Wow.

And we haven't recorded this yet, but my presumption is they're just going to spend the entire time tearing down Sam Riegel personally. Don't tear down anybody good luck they're all friends they're all friends they're friends they're some of the nicest people in the world the mcelroys and sam regal but as well as john flansburg once said as he raised his glass in a cocktail bar where i was lucky to be sitting with him, John Darnielle, and Jonathan Colton. Yes, it was a summit of the Johns. And a band came up that someone thought another person might not like very much, and that person raised his glass and said, you know what I say, good luck to all bands. And I say it every day. In this case,

good luck to all bands of adventurers. Oh, yes, indeed. Anyway, really fun episodes of Jordan, Jesse, Go. So I hope people will take the opportunity to listen to them. And of course, right around the corner is the MaxFunDrive, so look forward to that. If you're not already a member of Maximum Fun, it will be a great time to join. If you are

already a member, you can think about whether you've got the scratch to kick it up a notch. It's going to be a lot of fun, special episodes, special stuff happening across the network starting in late March. It's a special, special time of year. And if you've just started listening to Judge John Hodgman, make sure you listen hard once the MaxFunDrive starts because it's a special, special time of year and I'm really looking forward to it. It's not just the MaxFunDrive, it's also the Max Fun drive.

We have fun and it's going to be a good time. Let's get back to the docket. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne with me, Judge John Hodgman and David Lindsay, a bear Pulitzer Prize winner, of course, for Shrek the Musical, which he wrote. Here's something from Lewis in Brooklyn. I, Lewis G., bring the case against my friend, Lewis M. I'm from Colombia, where Parcheesi is very popular. I did not know this. All my aunts play, and they play for money. The equivalent of a quarter

for every kill. They recently sent me a Parcheesi set. I play at my local, Minnie's Bar in Sunset Park. Minnie's Bar in Sunset Park is where Louis plays Parcheesi. That's a Charlene

and Stuart joint. That's a Charlene and Stuart Wellington joint. Stu, of course, is co-host of the Flophouse podcast on Maximum Fun. This is completely unsolicited, but I'll tell you something. I've been to that bar. Dave Lindsay, have you ever been over to Minnie's bar? Nope. In Sunset Park? All right, let's go. Yep. Play some Parcheesi with Lewis. Done. Or will we? Let's find out if he's a fair player. I always start by clarifying the rules, including my family's house rules for roadblocks and rolling multiple doubles. During an amazing minis match, I pulled off a narrow victory just before Louis M. was about to bring his last piece home. The next day, Louis said my win was illegitimate.

He had checked the internet. It told him that once I had fewer than six spaces to go, I should have switched to using one die instead of two. I say, with a game as old as Parcheesi, online sources will differ. Only the pregame negotiation of rules matters. Who is the real champion? Parcheesi is indeed an ancient game, game. Almost as old as Scattergories. No, of course, I mean, it dates back to

around at least as far as we know around the first century BC in Southeast Asia. Now it's traveled the world. Do you like Parcheesi, David Lindsay a bear? Yeah, I do like it. I haven't played it in a while, but I played it a lot when we were

younger, yeah. You ever play it for money, Colombians no i've never heard that that makes it i've never heard that before that seems really cool and by the kills what's being referred to here i presume is when you roll the dice and you move you move your piece and you land on a spot that where another player's piece is and it's not a safe spot and they get sent back to start that would be a kill and i guess you would get a quarter from them for making that kill and the roadblocks that louis g refers to here i guess what i learned were called blockades which is when you have two of your own pieces on a space no one can move past them. Not even you.

And the goal is to get home. But had you ever heard of this rule of using one die when you have less than six spaces to go and you have only one piece on the board? No, I've never heard that. I've never heard of that either. What do you think about this case? I don't agree with it. Because if you need a five to get in you can get

roll a five with two dice i i don't understand why you would have to right because in parcheese when you roll you roll two dice and they're six-sided dice and you can use either the like let's say it's a five and a one you can either move one of your pieces six spaces right or you can move one piece five spaces and another piece one space and then there are other very not variations but that's the basics of the game mechanics so you i had never heard of this rule before but parcheese i do believe is a rule a game that has been around for a long time and i'm sure that there are lots and lots of house rules. Like there are from Monopoly. What do you think about house rules?

Great. So long as you say what they are at the beginning of the game, you can't make up house rules after it's over. Right. Like with Anna and her mom in Chicago, if Anna's mom had said, okay, house rule, I'm going to be cruel and treat you the wrong rules of Scrabble and pretend that I know better than you. That would have been fair. That would have been fair. I don't think Anna's mom needs to say that anymore. I think it's a given.

Right. I think it's house rules for all parents to say to their kids, yeah, just house rules. I'm going to inadvertently teach you some bad stuff and mess up your head. I'm sorry. But if you land on free parking enough enough you might be able to pay for therapy eventually do you put money under the under the free parking space in monopoly yeah we do that how much do you put in there to start well we put 500 to start and then whatever money is paid to

on on the cards whether it's community chest or chance then that also goes in the middle so it can pile up yeah no you can get quite quite a windfall. Quite a windfall. The rich uncle pennybags will be swooning, fainting backwards as he often does when he gets a tax refund in his favor or whatever. In this case, we have quite a few Parcheesi disputes and they all revolved around... Yes. In part because this game dates back to the first century BC. So there's been a lot of time. I see. A lot of time to build up disputes. Why do you laugh? Do you think there aren't that many Parcheesi players out there?

I'm surprised to hear that there are so many. I just think it's such an old, dusty game, which I enjoyed, but I didn't know that people were still playing it so much. Even if you were to go to the printed rules of Parcheesi circa 2001, which is the PDF I found from the Hasbro website or whatever. I mean, there are a lot of rules to Parcheesi. You know, you can move your entered pawns counterclockwise along the path, the number of spaces you roll on the dice. You may move one or two pawns in your turn. No more than two of your pawns can occupy one space. You must move whenever possible. You cannot move by the count of both. If you cannot move by the count of both dice, you may move one pawn. There's a whole lot of rules for what happens if you

roll doubles three times. The third consecutive time you roll doubles, you may not move forward. But what david lindsey a bear i don't know what happened you oh wait i do know the your pawn that is closest to home gets sent back to the home base is that what happens yeah you gotta start all over your pawn goes all the way back and then there's this one capture bonus after capturing or quote unquote killing upon an opposing pawn move any one of your pawns in additional 20 spaces at the end of your turn if you capture during a doubles bonus move complete your capture bonus before moving again if you can't move one pawn the full 20 spaces you for you see it goes on it's very it's right you could see why and and these rules that were printed in 2001 are much more complicated and confused than the original printed rules of Parcheesi that I

found dating back to when it was created by, well, obviously appropriated and then published for money by Parker Brothers back in the whatever 19... Because I think there are a lot of house rules and I think there are a lot of traditional different ways to play. And there are a lot of exceptions too. So think there are a lot of traditional different ways to play. And there are a lot of exceptions too. So I can understand why there were so many disputes. So I'm going to settle these all in a row real quick. David Lindsay-Aber, if you think I'm wrong on this because of your purchasing knowledge, you let me know.

So first of all, Richard in Camden, Maine, you are wrong. Your son Noah was perfectly within his rights to bypass his home path to capture your piece. There is nothing in the rule book that said Noah had to go down his home path when he reached it. He is absolutely fine to go ahead and capture your piece and continue to play and go around the board another time. And there's also nothing in the rule book that says a golden retriever can't play Parcheesi. You have to allow that dog to play. Justine, you are wrong. Per the printed Hasbro rules, you are not allowed to move a two-pawn blockade together to form a new two-pawn blockade, even if the dice roll that way. You owe your sister

Melissa decades worth of rematches. This was printed in the Hasbro rules, but not printed in the original Parker Brothers printed rules for Parcheesi. Because someone had to say, can I move my pieces forming a blockade together? And someone else had to say, no, you can't. It's unsporting. Justine, you're wrong. Hollis, your letter is unclear I don't know what move or combination of moves you employed to prevent Kyle from winning until it was long past midnight and you had ruined New Year's Eve for everyone but clearly Parcheesi is a mean game and as long as you followed its many mean rules including whatever

house rules you set up before the game what you did was as you wish me to deem awesome and finally Louis G in Brooklyn, your victory stands. You remain the Parcheesi champion of Minnie's Bar in Sunset Park. Louis M, you can't keep looking for rules on the internet after the fact and try to steal that victory back. Plus, I've never, not in any of the printed rules or any variation, have I been able to find anything about having to switch to

one die when you're less than six paces away from home it's just not how it works lewis m see you at minis you want to play some parcheese at minis david lindsey a bear yes maybe we should get together with lewis too great and lewis m well we'll show lewis m what's what when it comes to Parcheesi. You know who I'm not going to play with? Who? That mom. No. That mom, Anna's mom in Chicago. Anna's mom.

Go play at Hinterlands. Yeah. Are you expanding the board game ban to Parcheesi as well as Scrabble? I'm not playing anything with that lady. I don't like her. Wow. Wow. All right. I don't like her. Wow. Wow. All right.

That's a full ban. She's a rude dudette with a bad tudette. She's got nothing going on when it comes to playing games with David Lindsay, a bear. You know what? What? I don't want to count up her life tiles at the end of the day. No. I don't think her life tiles are going to be.

I'm sure she's a wonderful person. This is terrible. What's that? I'm sure she's nice. She just has this one little thing. She did a non-nice thing. Yeah, you know what? That's not a lifetile in your favor, Anna's mom. You should consider that.

That's all we're saying. Here's something from Steve in Brooklyn. This is about Monopoly. Okay. Okay. Boom. Years ago, our younger daughter Josie created a scheme in which she sneaks money under her butt and sits on a wad of secret cash. This cash is called butt money. Butt money. Butt money. In Monopoly, the amount of money opponents have in front of them is an important part

of deciding whether to purchase a property or build a house. However, butt money is the Monopoly version of a Swiss bank account. It seems unfair for Josie to release $1,000 in butt money when we think we've bankrupted her. Please order Josie to cease this practice. David Lindsay-Aber, you enjoy puzzles, right? Sure do. I mean, arguably, Boggle is not a game, but a puzzle. Okay.

Right? I mean, okay. You're creating a little word jumble for yourself that has no elegance to it whatsoever the boggle hate i knew i shouldn't have brought it up i knew it well people like what they like and i love you and you can enjoy whatever you like but that's more of a word it's more of a word jumble than it is a game. Here's a puzzle. Riddle me this, David Lindsay-Bear.

Can you spot Steve's first and biggest mistake in the letter that he wrote? Yeah, that he said it was about Monopoly. It's not about Monopoly. It's about some dynamic in the family that needs to be investigated. Oh, I thought you were saying his first mistake was they were playing Monopoly, which is arguable. Oh, I see. That's a better answer. That's not what I was saying, though.

That's not what I was saying. No, okay. What do you think? His first mistake, in my opinion, and I like Monopoly. I mean, but can I ask you honestly, David Lindsay-Aber, have you ever played a game of Monopoly that didn't cause anger? Right? That's the whole point.

That's the point. The whole point is to destroy other people and enrich yourself. Yeah. Bankrupt them. The game was designed originally to show the evil. Let's take the moral issue out of it, to show the inevitable let's take it let's take the moral issue out of it to show the inevitable

outcome of capitalism which is that money amasses to one person and everyone else suffers that there is no fair and equal distribution of the wealth of the board that it is predatory and cruel and someone said that's a fun game. And they stole that idea from that person and sold it as their own without batting a single eyelash of moral qualm. There's no ethical board gaming under capitalism. No, there is no ethical board gaming under capitalism. But David Lindsay-Aber and Jesse Thorne, I would argue that Steve's first mistake and biggest mistake was saying that part of monopoly strategy is deciding whether or not to buy a property based on monies that other people have. Because what I learned is playing

monopoly on my Macintosh SE, no, I think it was a Performa 145 or something like that. It was one of the built-in games and you could play it at fast speed. And my wife, who's a whole human being in her own right, and I would play Monopoly against each other late into the night in the 90s at the fastest speed possible. So we played hundreds of iterations of Monopoly a night. And what we learned very early on is you buy every property you land on. Right, David Lindsay, a bear? You never not buy a property. Wait a minute. No. If you keep buying all of those properties, you're getting around of money. And so if you have just enough and you land on a property that you want, you think, oh,

I have to buy this. But then you look around the table like, well, this joker doesn't have any money. They're not going to buy it. I'm safe. I can go around the board another time and pick up another 200 bucks, maybe get a little money from chance, maybe land on free parking. I'll be in a better position to not be bankrupted. I'm going to get the next go around. So then you are looking at the other people's piles of money would be. Please no letters regarding free parking. Fair enough. Please no letters regarding free parking. Fair enough.

Jeez, you know, I wish it were, I mean, I wish I hadn't seen what I saw those many late nights in the 90s playing Iteration 900 at 2 a.m. Because what I saw was very clear. The statistics were almost as clear as the data points that have rolled in over the 10 years of this podcast regarding dudes who have systems versus wives who endure them. The smallest, and this is what makes Monopoly so insidious, the smallest early advantage in terms of property acquisition will always lead to an increasing advantage until it becomes exponential and you eventually just win. And you can grind it out. You'll have your ups and downs. But you grind it out. It doesn't matter what the other person has, in my experience.

It doesn't matter what the other person has in my experience. Because, you know, once I saw through the matrix and I was in game 1,000, the odds were very clear. It's just like, buy the property, do what you have to in order to buy every property you land on. Because that will give you an edge eventually. But of course, this doesn't speak to butt money at all. I'm just identifying what I saw when I went too deep down the monopoly hole. What do you think about butt money and what Josie is up to? David Monsie and Bear. You know, I'm very much against it, and yet I love the audacity of it. Yeah. Just hearing about it was a thrill for me. Yeah, it's so brilliant. Like, bam, I've got a thousand bucks

and I'm going to build those hotels over there. It's amazing. And it is in keeping with the capitalistic nature of the game. I mean, as Steve points out, developers are hiding their funds all over the world. There is a strategic advantage into having more money than people think you have. I like the idea of playing any board game by prison rules. If you can keister the money, you can play it later. I think there should be a house rule that butt money is allowed. If you can sneak that money under your butt, then you have evaded taxation in the eyes of the government, etc et cetera. And then you can deploy those funds later. Now, what's the what my question to you, David Lindsay, a bear is what's the punishment of Josie gets caught sneaking the butt money?

In other words, and not like her dad or another family member sees this happening, calls them out. What's the punishment, if any? I think the call-out is the punishment. Hey, everybody, just so you know, Josie's sitting on 700 bucks over there. I saw her put it under her butt. Then you know she's got secrets going on. But David Lindsay-Aber, for me, and arguably maybe for you, because you suggested it,

certainly the call- out would be a punishment enough simply being shown to have done something wrong to have not followed the rules i mean as a as a rule following only child that would be basically fatal to me that would be capital punishment the call out that i wasn't the one sneaking the money under the butt josie doesn't care josie i don't think is maybe josie isn't capable of shame or humiliation well are we saying that she is in fact breaking the rules i don't think she is i'm trying to set up a new rule which is that butt money is allowed you can but it's if you sneak the money under your butt it's allowed but if you get caught if someone sees you doing, it's not just like I see you hiding that money.

There has to be a penalty. Like you go to jail. Who am I kidding? That would never happen in capitalism. It's not realistic at all. You'd have to pay a fine of $1. That's basically what would happen, right? If you were an entrepreneur in real capitalism and you got caught hiding your money,

you would have to pay a nominal fine that would not be meaningful to you, but some congressperson could say, I made this happen. Well, at the risk of dead horsing this, and maybe you want to cut all this out, but when I play Monopoly, I methodically lay out all my ones and my tens and my twenties and all in a row for everyone to see. I have family members who just have them in a wad of bills all piled together. So I don't know how much money they have. It's just this messy, ridiculous pile of paper. So it is the equivalent of butt money because I don't know if that's $12 or if it's $2,000 most of the time. And there's no rule that says, oh, you must lay it out the way that David has laid out everything in a methodical way. Well, there's no rule other than the law of nature.

When you are given things that you can match into a pattern, you have to do it or else your house is going to collapse. That's how I feel about ordering that money. Well, we feel the same. Like I have these things, you have to, they can't just be in separate piles. They also have to be facing the same way. Yes.

When I worked at the ticket booth at the Coolidge Corner Theater in Brookline, Massachusetts, you think I was turning in the cash that I had received with the president's heads going in different ways? I know you weren't. No, I had to make sure every one of them was facing the right way. I touched every one of those bills multiple times, just in case you worried that my saliva wasn't on a bill that you passed me it was there i see the capitalist meditation touch bills same way same way boggle is uh as an affront against nature the the letters are going in different ways that's not how you spell words that's part of the challenge so what are you what are we saying here? David Lindsay-Aber, what's your final ruling?

But money, okay? Or is it a wad pile that you cannot abide by? I'm for it. I like it. I know it's the wrong answer, but I can't let go of the fact that- Why do you think it's the wrong answer? It's your judgment. It seems highly deceptive in a way that monopoly is you know problematic for lots and lots of reasons deception seems like not the top of the list so that's that's what feels wrong but do you and are you also arguing that having a big wad of cash that isn't nicely laid out john hodgman slash david lindsey a bear style is also deceptive or just-

Not in my family. That's just- Untidy. It's just untidy. It's just sheer laziness. I know. I can't. I find that much more offensive than the butt money.

I would say that it is an acceptable house rule, but there has to be a penalty if you get caught stealing. And the penalty has to be appropriate to our capitalistic system. So basically it cannot hurt Josie in any way or cause meaningful harm whatsoever to her crude butt fortune. And also, it's not even saying like if she gets caught putting it into the butt money pile under the butt and you get caught, she doesn't even have to give it back. It stays there under the butt. You just have to give $1 back to the bank or wherever, or $1 to each player.

Keep an eye, keep an eye on Josie. That's what you got to do. We got to keep an eye. We need regulation. We need regulation. That's true of most butts. David,

Lindsay, a bear. I'm going to hand out life tiles. Now see Jesse Thorne. You've got to plug your aunt's business and you have a wonderful podcasting network. You have an incredibly cozy looking orange sweater. I'm going to give you a terrific wife and family and a great car, which has a max fun license plate on it. Give you 200 lifetiles. Thank you. Nice. Valerie Moffitt,

you're you, you've had, you've had incredible run this month, stepping in for Jennifer Marmer as she goes on maternity leave. She's in her own car playing the game of life out there. Not able to produce this podcast for the moment. You're doing a great job. You stepped in as interim producer. Obviously, you're editing the podcast all the time. You did

a great job producing us on the road as we were out there in the world. All listeners have been enjoying the fruits of your hard labor. I'm going to give you 250 lifetiles. Oh, thanks, John. You're in a great spot. David Lindsay, a bear. I don't know what to say. You got a show on Broadway right now called Kimberly Akimbo. Musical theater, comedy with heart. It's terrific.

I mean, it's really great. You co-created with Janine Tesori, one of the top Broadway talents. She really is. And it's in the Booth Theater in New York City, which, you know, it's an incredible shop for Kimberley Akimbo merch that happens to have a theater inside of it. In New York City, one of the biggest cities in the world,

in terms of theater, in terms of Broadway-style musical theater, I would argue the top place in the world. You've got a wonderful house with a turret that you decorate for Halloween and you know a lot about board games and you're a nice person. You know what I'm giving? A thousand live tiles.

Wow. Thanks, John. You can turn that in for money when you die. Fun game. But you know what I didn't know? You don't know. What? I have butt tiles. Oh, no. Oh, wow. It's an extra thousand for me.

The docket is clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. Our producer is Valerie Moffat. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. You can is Valerie Moffitt. We're on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman. You can follow us there for evidence and other photographs from the show. And check out the Maximum Fun subreddit

to discuss this episode at MaximumFun.reddit.com. Now, Judge Hodgman, we have a very specific case need this week. That's right, Jesse. We need your disputes about the theater. You know, I was born for the theater, as one of our favorite litigants once said. Do you have a dispute regarding the theater? Do you have a dispute? Did you not get the role that you felt you deserved in your high school production of Pirates of Penzance? Do you believe that one filmed version of West Side Story

is superior to another filmed version of West Side Story? Do you, like our producer Valerie, just have a lot of thoughts about when Documentary Now did that parody of that documentary about the recording of the original cast album of Company? Are you Katie Finneran, my co-star in the upcoming Hulu musical romantic comedy Up Here? Are you Marissa Korbel, my co-star in the 1998 San Francisco School of the Arts production of Little Shop of Horrors? Right. So did you, Katie, or Marissa have a dispute with us or a beef with us back when we performed together. I actually think Marissa might. So maybe we just Katie. Sorry, Marissa. Water under the bridge, I hope. Whether it's musical theater, dramatic theater, legit theater, off-Broadway, Broadway, off, off, off, off-Broadway, high school, elementary school, community, or any other

kind of theater, whether it's a thing you like better than another thing or something that happened to you personally when you were treading those boards. We need your theater disputes. Send them in to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Hold for applause. No case too big or too small.

We judge them all. Submit them at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience supported.