Judge John Hodgman - Case Your State

Episode Date: November 27, 2013

NOTE: This episode includes some bad language and M*ssholism. Sam brings the case against his longtime friend John. They both hail from cities in Massachusetts, but John says that Sam isn't "really" from Massachusetts -- he doesn't have the attitude and spirit. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, case your state. Sam brings the case against his longtime friend, John. They both hail from cities in Massachusetts, but John says that Sam isn't really from Massachusetts. He doesn't have the attitude and spirit. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. I think about justice when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day, and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm dispensing it. Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever?

I do. Yeah, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he long ago abandoned the state of the Commonwealth, excuse me, of Massachusetts, or the very marginally sunnier climbs of Park Slope, Brooklyn? I do. That's tough. But yeah, sure. Granted, only part time. Judge Hodgman? Sam and John, you may be seated for an immediate

summary judgment in your favor. Can you name the piece of culture that I was paraphrasing, the person or piece of culture that I was paraphrasing as I entered the courtroom? Sam? I wish I could, but I can't quite place it. No, you can't. John? The Bible. The Bible. I can see where this is going to go.

We got one man of Massachusetts West, thoughtful, considerate, answers the questions that I ask him. And one guy from Boxford, Massachusetts, who's just going to be a asshole this entire time. I already see where this is going. Am I wrong? Am I wrong, John? Am I wrong?

We'll see. Fuck, yeah. Yeah. Uh, we'll see. Fuck, yeah. I was not quoting the Bible. I was quoting Carl Yastrzemski, a sports person. Oh, he's in the Bible.

Yeah, I know. He's in your Bible. Carl Yastrzemski said, I think about baseball every morning when I get up. I dream, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, in his retirement where, John? Hopefully not the Berkshires. What was your guess there, Sam? Boxford. Boxford. John, where are you from? Boxford. Yeah, Boxford.

Yaz lives in Boxford now? That's according to my researches. My guess was Park Slope. He must have bought Ray Borg's house. Sure. Yeah. I caught that reference. Do you know where he's from originally, though?

No. He's from Long Island. Oh, that's where my parents are from. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. So you're not from Massachusetts either. Oh, yeah, I am. My parents are from Long Island.

This whole case revolves around who is from Massachusetts and who isn't from Massachusetts. I disagree with that, Your Honor. I know that you're just going to disagree with whatever I say because you're a contrarian masshole. But this was brought to me, Sam, who was born in Pittsfield. I was born in Pittsfield, but I was raised in West Stockbridge. Right. Did you grow up with Elizabeth Banks, the actress from Pittsfield, Massachusetts? No, she went to the high school just north of me. But you know who I'm talking about and you know that she was from Pittsfield because

you're tuned into the world around you. Yes. Okay. And John, you grew up in Boxford and you claim that Sam is not from Massachusetts? Yes. Why? Why? Well, I think it's a reasonable question given that he was born in and was raised in Massachusetts, and yet you claim he is not from Massachusetts. So why? Well, I think if you look at what defines somebody from Massachusetts, Sam represents none of those things. Other than his Commonwealth of birth?

Yeah. How does Sam, how does Sam not represent Massachusetts? Cause you are clearly rep, you are clearly representing Massachusetts right now. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

All right. Your honor, let me ask you this. How do you define somebody from Massachusetts? How do you do it? Someone who, someone who was born in and spent some period of time growing up in Massachusetts. Oh, that's weak.

That's weak. Your Honor, it's – Wow. Excuse me. Wow. Clearly, if I may be permitted to ask you, sir, to shut your pie hole, why don't I remind you whose court you're in? No, that's okay. And in fact, John, what I would say right now is don't even bother to refer to me as your honor because I know you don't mean it.

Okay, good. You can call me Johnny. You can call me Johnny or anything that all those kids in Massachusetts used to do. You can call me weakling. Anything Massachusetts kids like to call me because i know i know what you're talking about you're talking about the definition of someone from massachusetts someone from eastern massachusetts from the boston area specifically who is incredibly aggro ready to fight relishes getting into a conflict uh either verbal or occasionally physical is super du-duper house-proud, and believes anything that is not Massachusetts is garbage.

Yeah. Does that sound about right to you? Pretty close. Pretty close to my definition of someone from Massachusetts. All right. So let me ask you this. How long have you guys known each other? John?

Eight or nine or ten years. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 29. 29. Alright. So did you guys meet in college? Yes. And where did you go to college? We both went to the University of Vermont. In Burlington, Vermont? Yep. Sweet town. You catch a lot of fish concerts there. Yeah. Great fall tour.

Awesome. That's a fun, I, I, I performed in Burlington with, uh, Eugene Merman. That's a crazy town. A lot of fun up there. Yeah. We opened for fish. That's right. It was pretty, it was pretty amazing. Now, next question. Have either of you ever been involved in a sports injury of any kind? A sports injury? I have. Yeah, Sam, tell us about that. Yeah, Sam, what were you doing playing field hockey? Yeah, I recently tore my ACL last winter.

Oh, really? You tore your ACL? I was skiing, and I tore my ACL. Oh, all right. In the Berkshires? No, I was skiing and I tore my ACL. Oh, all right. In the Berkshires? No, I was actually skiing up at Smuggler's Notch. Oh, Buzz Marketing, sorry. In Vermont.

Oh, no, that's all right. Pretty nice. Pretty nice. Must be nice. Let me ask you this. Do you have any Vicodin left over? Yes. And funny enough, John has been hounding me for it for it all right this is the sound of a gavel

sam wins this court can be bribed sam what when did this when did this come up this conflict in college um it's probably been going on since college it kind of started as one of those john was clearly just trying to get under my skin kind of things but right because he's from massachusetts yeah well from eastern massachusetts no from massachusetts someone from eastern massachusetts doesn't acknowledge that there is any other Massachusetts. Yeah, I would say we definitely have a chip on our shoulder out there in the Berkshires and western Mass. You don't have a chip on your shoulder. You have a glass of white wine on your shoulder out there. Because you guys know that I'm from Brookline, Massachusetts, and I live part-time in what some people try to call Berkshire East, but I call the Connecticut River Valley.

Yeah. The Pioneer Valley of Massachusetts, which is not the Berkshires. I live part-time in a rural dairy and farming community, and it's not as as pittsfield let me tell you that right now it's hard to beat pittsfield it's pretty fancy john we're the two johns we're the two johns with all the pcbs and yeah what i don't even know what that is what are you talking about pcbs it's all leftover chemicals from the ge plant up in uh pittsfield oh okay gross now you're gonna you're gonna say that you're all hard scrabble out there in the Berkshires? Oh, no.

I definitely think part of my argument is that we've got a good balance of some rural, definitely some rural hardscrabble wearing flannels and that sort of stuff. But we definitely have a lot of culture and a little bit of the finer things. And I definitely take the Berkshire Tourism Board adopted a slogan, which I think is kind of silly. I don't know if they even still have it, but it was America's premier cultural resort, which I thought was a little snooty and pretentious. But I think there is a grain of truth to it. So people who are listening who are not fromachusetts and don't care whether or not anyone is what did you guys say something sorry jesse the berkshires are a mountain range in the very far

west of the massachusetts going from the very north of north adams where the massachusetts museum of contemporary art is and where Solid Sound Festival is held every summer. And then on down through Stockbridge and Pittsfield. And it's a longstanding sort of resort community for people from Massachusetts and for people from New York, and in particularly well known for its cultural attractions, including theater. And it's the summer home of, of the Boston symphony orchestra. And so it's a,

it's a nice, it's a nice area. Even without mentioning, you know, the PCBs or I should say, even taking into account the PCBs. Or even without mentioning the PCBs, if your goal is to expose yourself to toxic chemicals and become a superhero. Exactly.

That's why most of the superheroes come from this area of Pittsfield. Right. Whereas Boxford, Massachusetts is one of the small towns on the very, very periphery of the greater Boston area that imagines that it's Boston, but is really just a suburb. Isn't that right, John? Yeah, we're a suburb. Yeah. Inside of 495. That's the saddest defense I've ever heard.

But such a typically Bostonian style aggro defense. It's like we're on the right side of this meaningless line and everyone else is a monster. Right. And the world revolves around us. Everybody knows that. We're the, we are the hub of the universe. Yeah. I got there first.

Damn it. But that's cool. So, all right. How, Sam, you have nothing to defend yourself against. You were born in Massachusetts. You lived in Massachusetts. Where do you live now? I live outside of Burlington, Vermont. You live in Vermont now. And John, where do you live now? I live in Vermont as well.

Oh, okay. So you're both traders to your home state, your home commonwealth? to your home state, your home Commonwealth? I would add that the area we live is a lot closer to Western Mass than it is Boxford. So I would say that, not to say that there's any, that I have a claim to being from Massachusetts or living in Massachusetts, but I think it's interesting at least to point out that the area where we live is a lot more like Western Mass than Eastern Mass. is a lot more like Western Mass than Eastern Mass. Given that it is a rural, liberal college town, if you're outside of Burlington,

I would agree with you based on my enjoyment of both regions. But here's the thing. How has John made your life miserable with his assertion that you are not a massachusettsian why bring this to my court um i think it's just basically he's kind of denying a huge part of of who i am um i think i i've gained a lot from where i grew up and i'm very proud of where i'm from yeah but give me an example of a situation where are you guys friends or enemies? We're friends. You hang out together? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So give me a situation where, where John will,

we'll bring this up and a concrete example, specificities of the soul of narrative. You're out enjoying a fish tribute band in Burlington, having a craft brew, popping some Vicodin down with some dope. A night in Burlington, you know what I mean? Maybe, I don't know, John might bring up

something about the Red Sox, a team that both John and I support. World champion Red Sox. World champion Red Sox. World champion Red Sox. Thank you, John. The whole world knows. This is what Boston doesn't understand.

We follow the news. You don't have to keep yelling it. We got it. John might be talking about the Red Sox, and then he might say, Oh, but Sam doesn't care. He's from Eastern New York. And he'll just kind of shut me down. Oh, let me hear you say it, John, as you actually say it.

What, that Sam's from Eastern New York? Yeah. Oh, Sam, you're from Eastern New York. You don't give a shit. Yeah, you're just trying to... And Sam, you mentioned in your petition that john has a partner in his life yes he does a professional partner or a romantic partner a romantic partner okay and and who is this romantic partner uh her name is emily and where is emily from uh she's from

east post and kill new york which is on the other side of the Massachusetts-New York border. One of the many Dutch settlements. Yes, exactly. Of the Hudson River Valley. And where does – and John, where is your female partner special friend from? Where is she from? Oh, she's from Western Massachusetts. Now, why do you say that?

Why do I say that? Because she represents what it means to me to being from Massachusetts more than my good friend Sam does. Explain to me why Emily is more Massachusetts-y than Sam is. She's efficiently aggressive, irrationally arrogant, and she also thinks that she is the hub of the universe. Why do you say that she is from Western Massachusetts? Oh, just to get underneath Sam's skin, because I won't recognize that as a place of origin for Sam. But I will for Emily. But it just adds to the effect of upsetting Sam.

Did you say that part of being from Massachusetts in your definition is being irrational? Irrationally arrogant. Yeah, okay, but I'm going to focus on irrational. Okay, yeah, that's fine. Because you understand, but yeah, I mean there's something about you that is definitively Massachusettsian, I will not deny it, in that you are moving every possible goal post to annoy as many people as possible and to cement your position as the center of the universe, as you say, and also to use to make as many references to sports as possible by

saying things like moving the goalposts. So there's something in that. But you understand he's from Western Massachusetts. You say that he's from Eastern New York. Your girlfriend is from Eastern New York. You say that she's more like you than him. And therefore she is from Massachusetts, but she doesn't even qualify as being from Massachusetts,

Western Massachusetts, but Western Massachusetts has a very specific connotation, sir. Do you not acknowledge that there is a West of Massachusetts? There is a West of Massachusetts. Yeah. And what, and in the West of Massachusetts, you are not aggressive. You are passive-aggressive. Right. In the west of Massachusetts,

you are not irrationally arrogant. You are merely arrogant. This is a great point. So maybe what the ruling should be is that I should... And what was the third criteria? Oh, efficiently aggressive?

Aggressive, irrational, an unbearable sense of pride in your home state. In Western Massachusetts, there is merely apology for your home state. Yeah. But it is not closing down the nuclear power plants fast enough. Western Massachusetts has, like much of Vermont, has a strong liberal and social liberal streak. It is home to many colleges and it is home to many, let's say, affluent professionals, as well as the people of much more modest means. But it is in no way culturally as aggro as the Boston area. Would you not agree?

No, I agree with that. John, you agree with that? Yeah, I agree with that. So you agree that there is a separate cultural subset of Massachusetts that can be defined as Western Massachusetts. You must agree with it because you have assigned that to your girlfriend. Yes. So therefore, it is entirely possible for Sam to be from Massachusetts. Is that not true? No, it's not. But your irrational arrogance instead says that he is not from Massachusetts.

No, I think where the flaw in my argument, my logic is that Emily is actually from eastern Massachusetts, not western Massachusetts. That's where my error is. And the fact that I claim that Sam is from eastern New York and Emily is from western Massachusetts, I say that just because I want to like further egg Sam on, but if I were to, but in the reality, my lady friend is more from Eastern mass in her tendencies of an aggressive nature and arrogance and the like, uh,

that I should consider her more from eastern Massachusetts. That's why I'm attracted to her. But that's a separate argument. Right. My point by point logical dismemberment of your argument, your reaction to it is you're absolutely right. I'll just become more delusional. Or to put it in eastern Massachusetts in terms, I think the flaw in my argument is I don't fucking give a fuck.

Which is my terrible imitation of a Boston accent. Yeah, it was weak. I know. Because look, I am Sam more than I am you. That's clearly obvious, isn't it? And I was even when I grew up surrounded on all sides by Boston and the people who lived there and played hockey and wanted to beat me. But there's a degree of your humor and sarcasm that is distinctly eastern Massachusetts that I don't think you're willing to recognize, Your Honor. Well, that's an interesting question, John.

If you really are an honor. I live, no, I'll accept the purely sarcastic use of Your Honor. Thank you. I live, I grew up in Brookline, but moved away to go to Yale University when I was 19 or 18. Then I moved immediately to New York where I lived for 14 years. Then I moved to Park Slope, Brooklyn where I live today. Am I a person of Massachusetts? I think so because

you're dripping with sarcasm. Right. You had to choose there between whether or not you were going to be consistent to your own logic or you were going to instead just be angry, make Sam as angry as possible. But there is a mystery

that remains. Sam, why are you guys friends? are friends because of the sort of opposites attract kind of thing. And I think that also gets to one of my arguments about why Massachusetts, Western Mass is such a integral part of Massachusetts because it's needed to balance out that crazy aggro kind of attitude that, that is, that is somewhat Eastern Massachusetts. And we're able to balance that out. Sam, Sam, Sam, you're not answering my question at all. Okay.

What I want you to do is I want you to draw upon that Western Massachusetts command of your feelings and your intellect. Okay. And I want you to try to explain to a thoroughly confused podcast listening audience, why you are friends with someone who clearly just wants to make you mad all the time. And indeed why one should be friends with anyone from Boston ever.

I would say that it is a, I will accept only an answer, an honest answer full of that Western Massachusetts empathy that we all know so well. Okay, I'll do my best. I would say that it's certainly a challenging friendship. But I think in that challenge, there is also – It's challenging in like a brotherly, you know, like you to cut each other down. But at the end of the day, you're still really good friends and you still care deeply about each other.

And. I think that what's a what's a good quality about John specifically, John, John is a caring person. What's a good quality about John specifically? John is a caring person. He is a very caring person, despite what he's presented during this podcast. And would you say he's your best friend? Probably, or one of my best friends. All right. John, final argument.

Why am I getting wrapped up in your game to humiliate your friend? I wanted nothing to do with this to begin with. But here's the thing. We've listed. Oh, really? You back away from a fight? No, I haven't because we're on here right now. But here's the thing. I don't. Sam is such a nice guy that he shouldn't associate himself. He needs to be beaten down. Well, he shouldn't associate himself with being from Massachusetts. And by that, I mean he's so nice and he is – let me give you an example. I offered him to go to Fenway Park with myself and my father, sit behind home plate. But instead of doing that, his sister was visiting town, and so he stayed in Burlington to hang out with his sister.

And he's such a nice human being that – like why I give him such a hard time about being from Massachusetts is he shouldn't admit this to people that he's from Massachusetts. He should just sort of keep that kind of to himself, I believe. And that if you were to rule that Sam is like officially from Massachusetts, blah, blah, blah, like that would do disservice to Sam and his integrity, I think. Sam, do you want to be from Massachusetts, Sam? I do. That's the thing. And as nice as those words are coming from John, I want people to realize that Massachusetts and Boston are not synonymous. You want to be an ambassador to the rest of the states and commonwealths of this union.

We don't want you to. Yeah, let me ask you this. If I, if I, let me ask you this. That's all right, Sam, I've heard from you. Sam, I'll have order. Okay. Do you want to say one last thing? Yeah, I would love to be an ambassador to,

like I said, to the other states and commonwealths to expand people's horizons of what Massachusetts could be. Because I feel like if I were to not do that, then there could be another civil war or something because everybody would be so aggro and pick fights with everybody from Rhode Island that we need people from Western Mass to try to balance everything out. First of all, fuck Rhode Island. Yeah! Yeah!

John, if I rule, what disservice am I doing to Massachusetts if I rule that Sam, a native of Massachusetts, is a native of Massachusetts? Nothing. We're going to keep doing all the same shit that we've been doing for so long. And you won't be doing any disservice to us. Other than to Sam, I guess. Why is that a disservice to him? He should embrace Vermont as his new home and forget about Massachusetts in general. And there are a lot of... Why shouldn't you embrace Vermont?

That's where you live. I have. That's why I moved here. I love Vermont. I left all that nonsense back there. So you say you live. I have. That's why I moved here. Like I love Vermont. I left all that nonsense back there. So you say you're from Vermont? Yes. I do say I'm from Vermont, but I also have like this bad sort of, I have this bag of crap I carry around with me, which is around with me, which is, uh, be growing up outside of Boston where like I'm aggressive and mean sometimes. And I get true enjoyment out of giving Sam shit.

So that being said, I mean, I don't know. Do what you will judge. No, you don't worry. I will. I think I've heard everything I need to hear. I'm going to go hit the Packy, then go back to my chambers. And by the way, people who are listening in the UK, in Boston, Packy is short for package store. That's a liquor store. I'm not going to hit a person of Pakistani origin. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sam, how are you feeling about your chances in this case?

Sam, how are you feeling about your chances in this case? I'm feeling pretty good. I think that the judge acknowledged that I am from Massachusetts. And yeah, I feel like that's that's pretty, pretty good. A pretty good case. John, how about you? How are you feeling? I think if the judge decides against me, I think the only reason he does so is because Sam's so nice and he just feels bad for him. I mean, that's the only reason I feel like he would side with Sam and not me is pure empathy

towards Sam's position. Sam, you mentioned that your relationship with John was sort of like brothers who cut each other down all the time, but in the end, they love each other. I've heard John cut you down a few times. Is this a two-way street? Are we just not getting a taste of your acid-tongued wit? It's a two-way street, but it's more like a highway next to a small little lane. I get my jabs in, but they're not exactly the 65-mile-an-hour interstate jabs. You said your relationship with John was sort of an opposite to track

type situation. Would you say that you're more of a Paula Abdul or more of an MC Scat Cat? I've seen John on the dance floor. So, I mean, they're both pretty good dancers, but I would say Paula Abdul is the better dancer of the two. So I would say John is more Paula Abdul and I'm more scat cat. Very well. We'll find out what Judge John Hodgman has to say about this case and about the classic music video where opposites attract starring Paula Abdul, an animated cat rapper, MC Scat Cat, when we come back in just a minute. animated cat rapper, MC Scat Cat, when we come back in just a minute. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and

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So there's one question I just want to ask you guys to answer honestly before I make my verdict. Sam, do you love John? Yeah, I would say I love John. All right. You're definitely not from Massachusetts. Goodbye. Goodbye. I was waiting for some hesitation.

I was waiting for some hesitation. Because the one unifying trait that I have been able to determine in all of my travels through Massachusetts and indeed most of New England, from North Adams to Boston to Fitchburg to Worcester Springfield, to Boxford. I've never been there. Gloucester. I've been all over. I've been everywhere, man. There's one thing that ties the state together, this commonwealth of ours, which is crippling discomfort with emotions. And I thought for a second there, Sam, you were going to get qualified right quick. Cause I had said to you, what do you like about John? And you're like, well, I, you know,

and you weren't able to really say anything. Whereas John, meanwhile, I was going, I don't know what it is. I carry around all this anger with me all the time. I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I get it now. What does it mean to be from a place? I would never call myself a New Yorker. I wasn't born here. And New Yorker is, it's, it's a weird thing anyway. You know, that's an urban culture that's so specific and a brashness that's so carefully outlined in so many movie cliches and self-aggrandizing essays in the New Yorker magazine. And the only people who would

really call themselves New Yorkers would be the jackasses who had moved here from somewhere else, who were trying to get something off of New York. People who were born here in New York would identify themselves by their borough or by their neighborhood faster than they would call themselves a New Yorker. My wife grew up, spent some time growing up in Atlanta, though she was born in Chicago and then moved to Brookline. She's a person without a country. She's not from anywhere. There is an aggressive culture that might be termed Bostonian, and it would be appropriately Bostonian to insist that that particular culture of raspy voice yelling and tribal distrust of outsiders and intense sports chauvinism is a culture of the entire Commonwealth.

But that, this is not by definition Massachusettsian, it is simply massholism. The thing that I grew up among. There is a place called Western Massachusetts, and I appreciate so much, John, your utter denial of Sam's, the conditions of Sam's birth, and your desire to kick him out of your imagination of the state into eastern New York. And I see where you're coming from. And the long-form art project of being angry is truly impressive. But there is such a place as western Massachusetts.

And it has a real culture, and it may be loathsome to some and loved by others. And there is no question in my mind that Sam embodies it. But I will allow this to be ruled on by another Western Massachusettsian. Sam, you received a testimony, an amicus brief from Monty Belmonte, sometimes occasional guest bailiff in this court. Yes. Allow me to read this to stand in as my judgment. As a native, this is quoting Monty Belmonte of WRSI, the River Occasional Guest Bailiff on this program. As a native Massachusettsian born in Boston, raised in the suburbs, and now a likely permanent resident of the Commonwealth of Western Mass, you, Sam, are not from the real Massachusetts.

The Massachusetts of endless traffic and new kids on the block worship and chain store strip malls and dropped R's and Cosmo centerfold Republicans and the unrelenting glow of Dunkin' Donuts can continue to consider itself the real Massachusetts. You, Sam, are from

the better Massachusetts and your friend is actually from southern New Hampshire. Bobster, please. Whatever, dude. By the way, Jonathan Richman's roadrunner for Commonwealth rock song, It Is Wicked Pisser. That is the sound of a gavel, gentlemen. This farce of a hearing is over. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Live free or die. Live free or die. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. John, how do you feel right now? Well, something that didn't come up in the case was the fact that I've spent more time in New Hampshire over the years than Vermont and probably balanced with Massachusetts. And so the fact that all of my emotions and how I feel about New England in general

are based in a state that's motto is live free or die, then I'm okay with it. I don't know how this is going to bode for my friendship with Sam, but we'll see how things go. Sam, how do you feel? I feel pretty good. I feel like at a bare minimum, Monty Belmonte has given me a painfully obvious comeback,

which I have yet to figure out. So I can at least have that in my back pocket if John ever brings up Eastern New York again. Sam, you still love your jerk friend? Jerk? Bailiff, come on. I do.

The thing is that both of you guys are exiles. Yeah, we left. It's a shitty place. We got out of there. But Western Mass isn't. That's the thing. Then why did you leave, Sam? You're both overplaying your Massachusettsian cards as exiles, though you are dealt different cards.

You, John, were dealt the aggro card of the East and you, Sam, were dealt the retiring accommodating card of the West. And you're both playing those roles extra hard because you're both traitors to your home Commonwealth. It's the same reason all I do is talk about Massachusetts on this podcast lately, because I am also a traitor. We're all exiles. We're all expatriates. No one in Massachusetts gives a feces about where we are from. We are a people without a country. about where we are from. We are a people without a country. So in many ways, the three of us are countrymen. And that is why I have started a new spinoff

of Judge John Hodgman, strictly for people who are obsessed with Massachusetts. Starting with this episode, it will only be broadcast on the New England Sports Network and Channel 38 circa 1979. Yeah, you be. And only to people who will halfway understand what we have been talking about for the past 45 minutes. And I will spare the rest of this great nation any of this conversation.

So for the Judge John Hodgman loft, this is Dana Hersey signing off. Gentlemen, I'll presume you know what that means. And thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thanks. on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you. Thanks. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm.

Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p p-p-d-c-o-o ah we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go.

Judge Hodgman, are you in here? Judge Hodgman? I'm over here. Huh? I'm hiding behind the ottoman. I'm cringing in embarrassment that I even tried to do a Boston accent on my podcast that was the worst so mad at myself

be okay I am so I have so little my inability to speak in a Boston accent is such a scarlet letter I can do I can do a really good Boston accent.

Do you want to hear it? Yeah, I want to hear it. Tell me what to say. Welcome to Cheers, everybody. Hey, you Skies! Welcome to Cheers over here! I think kind of the perfect embodiment of the Boston...

There's no other way to say it, and I realize we've used some bad words on this, and I'm sorry, parents, but the Boston sort of like asshole-ism was when I played the Wilbur, and I went out with my high school friend, Jen Dederick, and my internet friend, tech writer, Andy Anotko, and we found a bar that was open

until 1.30 in the morning because the town shuts down. And to play everyone out, when they started flipping the lights and tried to get everyone out, they started playing the theme from Cheers. Just to chase people out of the bar. I loved it. Let's clear the docket,

and maybe people will forget our impression skills or lack thereof. All right, Governor. Wow. That was like the perfect sort of foghorn leghorn style Southern Belle. Like legendary Southern Belle foghorn leghorn. Sure. Yeah, no, I get it. He was one of the Bob and Doug McKenzie's, right?

Absolutely. Here's something from Scott. I recently listened to the episode Lingua Fracas and was struck by the defendant's mention of the Montana regional pronunciation of the word gums. My wife's grandparents in and near Rock Valley, Iowa, in the county of Sioux, both use strange pronunciations of very common words. They say gooms rather than gums, but also deef rather than deaf, and piano rather than piano. It's notable that people from neighboring towns do not use these pronunciations. They seem to be endemic to Rock Valley. Because you've mentioned your affection for weird regionalisms in a number of past shows, I thought you might be interested.

They also make something in Sioux County called a snicker salad. It is what it sounds like, and it is not a dessert. It is a salad. Thanks for many hours of good company. Thank you for that letter, Scott. But I am mad at you forever because you did not include a recipe for snicker salad and you have left me with a huge question in my mind. Are you talking about a leafy green salad that has cut up snickers in it as though they were croutons? Or are you talking about cut up snickers bars that are tossed in mayonnaise?

It looks like I am searching for snicker salad right now on the Internet. It looks like it involves apples. It looks like an apple caramel type situation. But that's not a unless it's unless a snicker is something different. Oh, you know what we're doing? We're doing it wrong. That wasn't that's not that's not the Rock Valley, Iowa pronunciation of Snickers. In Rock Valley, Iowa, the word Snicker is pronounced opple.

Also, did you know what? That reminded me that Jorge Luis Borges, the writer whom I most admire, also said Piana in English. And according to Ronald Chris' interview with him in the Paris Review, he said, poor Hayes is a weird dude and you kind of don't know where he gets his English from because he says Piana because he watched too many Western movies. And that's how he thinks it's pronounced. So I guess what that means, so I guess what that means, Scott, is that your wife's grandparents are secretly Argentine hyperliterate

fabulists. Next one. Here's something from Robert. My wife and I are in an open relationship and both maintain profiles on a popular online dating site. Hang on, hang on, hang on. I got to pick up my brain off the floor.

Okay, it's back in. I'm ready to go. No, hang on, hang on, hang on. I got to scrape my brain off the wall behind me. All right, I'm ready to go. Go on. Open relationship. Got it. Though I'm 5 feet 11 inches and a quarter, at the very tallest, I list my height as 6 feet on the site. The site's published data shows that there's a positive correlation between men's height and the messages received. For this reason, it also shows men on the site lie about their height, giving themselves an extra 2 inches on average.

My argument for this fudging of the truth are, one, that height is actually subjective. When asked to estimate my height, people always overestimate that I'm six foot or even six one. And two, since most men on the site add two inches to their height, and I'm only adding about three quarters of an inch, I'm actually being more honest by curving my own height to where it fits demographically. My wife believes that height is an objective measure, not a subjective one, and that fudging the truth on this issue at all is just plain dishonest.

Calling myself six foot when I'm clearly not, she says, would make me part of the problem. We seek a ruling. Is height subjective? Your ruling will determine whether or not I change my profile to list my height as 5'11". I will quote Ayn Rand in saying that my moral philosophy is founded on the principle that there is an objective reality and that man's senses can perceive it accurately. Sir, you are a certain height. You know how certain your height is because you were very clear about it. You said five, ten, and a quarter. That little extra quarter inch of insecurity.

You're trying to push up there to six feet, and now you're given the opportunity to lie. Well, I will tell you this, sir. One of the most important qualities in life, and one of the most critically important qualities of an open relationship is to be honest. If you have to round, mathematically, you are obliged to round down because you are below 5'10 1⁄2".

5'10 if you're rounding at all. You have to be honest, especially on dating sites and especially if you're rounding at all. You have to be honest, especially on dating sites, and especially if you're in an open relationship, because your first job is to convince the world that you are not a creep. I don't think there's anything I can add to that. I mean, geez louise. Shave your mustache, put on a necktie, the whole nine yards. You're going to have to check a lot of boxes, my friend.

Folks, if you like funny stories and me telling them, won't you come check me out at any of my public live performances? All the details are at johnhodgman.com slash tour. And if you're getting ready for the holiday season, you're looking for a great gift for the Judge John Hodgman fan on your list, not only should you consider going to maxfuncon.com to grab yourself tickets to Max Fun Con, but if you go to maxfunstore.com, you will find lots of cool Judge John Hodgman stuff, including the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage t-shirt, the Hodgman t-shirt,

and my favorite right now is this amazing, amazing listener, a really gifted artist named Joe Pagak. I may be mispronouncing his last name. Pagak. Pagak? Thank you. It is. I've mispronounced it many times, and I've finally been corrected enough to remember it. It's Joe Pagak of Tucson, Arizona. Joe made an absolutely stunning painting

of Hodgman, myself, and the spirit of justice, justice herself, holding the, you know, the scales of justice and, you know, blindfolded the whole nine yards. Sort of like, just imagine a Howard Johnson's in rural New York. And it is available. This is the kind of painting they would have over both beds in a Howard Johnson's in Saugerties. Exactly. And you can find it's and Socrates. Exactly. And you can find it at maxfundstore.com. Go to maxfundstore.com and you will find all of the Judge John Hodgman and other MaximumFun.org merchandise perfect for your holiday gifts. And they have bulk discounts and stuff.

So, you know, get something for Grandma, get something for Grandpa, get something for old Uncle Phil from the TV show Family Matters. Is that Uncle Phil? Is that the guy from Family Matters? What is that from? What's that? Fresh Prince.

The Fresh Prince. The Fresh Prince. There you go. Yeah, so whether or not you're friends with Uncle Phil from the Fresh Prince, you can go to maxfundstore.com. Our case name today was submitted by John Ajuda Barr. Thanks, John. Thank you, John. And how do you submit case names, Jesse?

Because I never do it. If you want to submit a case name like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, It is easy, free, takes only seconds. Just type in Judge John Hodgman on Facebook and or follow us on Twitter. Hodgman is at Hodgman. I'm at Jesse Thorne, J-E-S-S-E-T-H-O-R-N. And if you have a case for us, you can go to MaximumFun.org slash J.J. Ho. Big or small, we judge them all, or at the very least, consider judging them all.

And look, you know, I had said before that we'll give preference to people who are not married to each other in order to just mix it up a little bit, best friends and everything else. But if you're best friends who are just going to use my podcast to have a little joke with each other about whether or not someone's from Boston or not,

you know what? Maybe I'll look at married people again. Seriously, if you're out there and you have any kind of dispute, send it in to us. As long as the other person's willing to get on the line, we would love to take it into consideration. Suggest it to friends. Why don't you suggest your mom or your grandma or your Uncle Phil send in a case? And the other person does have to be on the other line, so please stop sending in fights that you're having with the Pope. That's a real consistent problem. He seems like a pretty good Pope, too. I don't understand.

I hate foot washing. And... This week's episode of Judge John Hodgman was recorded at the Creek in the Cave in Long Island City. I hate foot washing. And. This week's episode of Judge John Hodgman was recorded at the Creek in the Cave in Long Island City. Full of fantastic food and incredible comedy night after night after night. Specifically in the basement. Which is the home of Cave Comedy Radio. A great podcast network with many podcasts that you should listen to. Marcus recorded it.

Thanks, Marcus. Thank you, John. Check out Cave Comedy Radio online. And if you're in Long Island City or anywhere in New York, check out The Creek in the Cave. It's a great place. Thanks for listening to this week's Judge John Hodgman. We'll talk to you next time. Bye-bye.

The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show Thank you. at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.