Judge John Hodgman - Cease and De-Thrift

Episode Date: December 3, 2014

Should Alex relinquish his beloved "grandpa shoes", purchased secondhand?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, cease and de-thrift. Alex springs the case against his wife Mandy. Alex prefers to buy clothes secondhand and will buy any item that fits his needs. He recently bought a pair of secondhand sneakers and wears them as his strolling shoes. Mandy thinks they're grandpa shoes and says Alex needs to think more about his personal image when purchasing clothing. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference.

Me and my friends getting in the car. Gonna drive fast but not too far over the bridge and through the woods if you've got the will then they've got the goods bailiff jesse swear them in please rise and raise your right hands do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the only clothes he will deign to wear are made of purest gold, like that one Indian guy from the news last year? I do. I do.

Very well. Judge Hodgman? Alex, Amanda, you may be seated. Very well. Judge Hodgman. Alex, Amanda, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, you heard me quote a piece of culture as I entered the courtroom. Can you name the piece of culture that I was quoting? Not paraphrasing, but quoting verbatim.

Alex, you seem to be saying um first. Can you? It was a, oh God, was it that thrift store song you know that i don't know no i don't know actually never mind i have no idea either you don't have any idea no all right what did you say alex is it that thrift store song you know you know that song where he goes going you know it's gonna go down to thrift i don't know the actual song but i assume that would be appropriate for this presuming there is only one thrift store song that's where that's where you know that one the one where he says like i got 20 in my pocket and the lyrics are so fast i can't tell what he's saying anyway i'm gonna pop some tags yeah we're We're talking about Macklemore and Ryan Lewis.

Yes. That's the one. Thrift shop. You're wrong. Okay. The song I was thinking of was the song Thrift Shoppin' by Pianosaurus. Surely you remember Pianosaurus' one and only long-playing record from 1987, Groovy Neighborhood, including the song Thrift Shoppin' on it?

Yeah. Nope, don't remember that one. No, because this is a case not just about shoes and thrift shopping, but also about age. Because what is your age, Alex? I'm 30 years old. You're 30 years old. And what is your age, Alex? I'm 30 years old. You're 30 years old. And what is your age, Mandy? I'm 31.

And you think Alex's thrift shop sneakers are old man sneakers. Is that correct? Yes, absolutely. Because the old place is ageist. And just to point out, not only can you not sing one of the biggest songs of the past two years, or three years, I guess, such that even I know it? But you also don't know about Thrift Shoppin' by Pianosaurus. Pianosaurus, whose whole thing was they only played toy instruments.

And there's a song. Oh, wow. I used to play this song all the time when I was a radio DJ at WMFO Tufts University radio station. Nice. Live from the top beautiful Curtis Hall in Medford, Massachusetts. I would play that song over and over again because I only knew about five songs for a long time. That one and a bunch of Billy Bragg songs and a Tom Waits. It's a good mix.

Yeah. This is one I would play all the time when I was 17 years old and I weaseled my way into WMFO on the back of their policy that they would reserve, I think, something like 50% of their programming for community members. Which I think what they meant was instead of just having college students all the time, we'll also get some local peace and justice activists on our air. They did not count on a 17-year-old only child from Brookline to come in and play all of his favorite Tom Waits songs. But I technically was a member of the community, and I would play this song. And there's one, I had forgotten all about it till I was touring with David Reese in New England just this past week. And he was saying, do you remember a band that only played toy instruments? And I said, do you mean Pian he said yes and i remembered it because this particular line always is in my mind always if i close my eyes for five seconds i guarantee you

that this line will come back thrift shopping is sweeping the nation everybody get into shopping sensation i got a friend who doesn't wash his clothes. When they get dirty, he goes to the thrift store. To the thrift store. This is 1987, you guys. You weren't even born yet. I was three. No, you weren't born.

Yeah, right. I just want all the youngsters to grok this and grok it well. In 1987, there was a band called Pianosaurus that played only toy musical instruments and sang a song about a thrift shop. Not only did they see Macklemore coming, but these guys, toy instruments, they saw Wes Anderson coming. They saw the whole twee movement coming 15 years before you ever heard of it they had a they had a bass drum a kid's bass drum that had fraggle rock on it these guys were so far ahead of their time you can't beat that you just

why are you talking i don't know what do you why 30 years old. Why do you feel like you can talk all the time? Is this your podcast? No, no, no. You are a millennial, aren't you? Yeah. Yeah. All millennials are only children. Me, me, me, me, me.

Yeah. Your Honor, I'm a millennial and an only child. At least I'm my mother's only child. Jesse, do you know about Pianosaurus? No, but I believe this podcast is about me. Ah, nice. I'm going to get in my white new balances and walk out of this podcast because I'm cranky now. Alex and Mandy, hello.

Hi. Now, Alex, you bring this case, even though Mandy has the beef, right? You have, you're buying stuff at the thrift shop, including sneakers that you like that she thinks are gross. But you're bringing the case because you want attention being paid to you all the time. So why don't you go ahead, since you brought the case and explain what mandy's beef is with you since she apparently can't speak for herself yeah um well it's more like okay so i uh i don't want to buzz market thrift shopping is sweeping the next sorry yeah it's in my mind now so i go to uh like thrift this chain thrift store uh that's all over the place to get clothes.

You can buzz market the thrift shop that you go to. What is it? St. Louis DePaul? Yeah, it's Goodwill. It's Goodwill. Yeah, yeah. Good. Well, you know.

Didn't you? You heard that, right? This is what Pianosaurus, that's what they were laying down. If you got the will, then they've got the goods. Get it? Oh. Yeah, right? I just did get that. Clever got the will, then they've got the goods. Get it? Oh, I just did. I just did get that.

Clever. This is a song. This is a band. I want to get them back together. Yeah. This is a band that deserves a close reading. All right. So you go to the Goodwill all the time.

Yeah. Well, like, you know, monthly to get, you know, a few items of clothing. And unlike Mandy, I, you know, clothes shopping is a very tactile experience for me. And, like, I just get clothes that feel good on my body and have a utilitarian function to them. May I just quickly quote Mark Evan Jackson here? Please do. Gross. Yeah.

I don't want to hear about how clothes feel on your body, sir. Can we talk about these sneakers and then we'll get to the larger issues at hand? Sure. Okay. So lately, so I was at one of the Goodwills and I purchased these pair of shoes for my strolling purposes. Because, you know, I have shoes for hiking and I have shoes for, you know, long walks. I take walks before work. But these are just to throw on and go to the store. And they were really comfortable, felt good for walking. I saw no reason not to purchase them. All right. You're making an argument. I just want to know what the beef is.

Okay. So Mandy won't let me wear them. Mandy won't let you wear them. wear them. Mandy won't let you wear them. Out in public with her at any, whenever we have friends over, she needs to point and acknowledge that we have these pair of shoes in our shoe area and that they're mine and that I can't wear them. And just for reference, everyone can go to the website and look at the pictures of the shoes. I won't buzz mark it. I mean, it's just a matter of fact to say that these

are white new balance sneakers that from that look like they're from about 1994 there are pictures of them here and and what's the best part of it is that you're wearing you're wearing them you're wearing them with uh with blue jeans which really completes the picture yeah right okay so wow those are some well-faded blue jeans. Yeah, that's right. Faded blued jeans. I think the fairest description of these sneakers would be Jerry Seinfeld sneakers. Yeah.

When he was that old, though. Sustained. What's that? When he was that old. Probably still today. Yeah, okay. But when he was probably in his 30s doing that tv show seinfeld remember that old timey that old timey radio program that your parents listened to seinfeld yeah yeah that was

all right so i just don't want anyone out there to get the get the false idea that these are what might be described as hip retro sneakers or stylish minimalist sneakers. These are not New Balance 574s. These are the 623 model. Oh, wow. If I'm seeing that correctly on the tongue. And, yeah, I mean, nothing could ever more better suggest a dad in 1998. Wow.

You really nailed it on the head. I didn't even have to say anything. 623. Good eagle eye there, Jesse. Well, you do run a menswear blog called Put This On. He said possibly contemptuously. No, no, no. Not at all. my god look at but i wasn't trying to like

make a statement they're not meant to be like oh well we'll see um but if i find in your favor you would like you would like me to uh release you from all constraint so that you can wear this whenever you want including in public uh with mand? Yeah, and she couldn't draw attention to them or whatever. Well, no, they draw attention to themselves. But she could not nag you about it or prohibit you from wearing your strollers, right? Your sweet 623s. Alls all right i got you mandy why is this unreasonable first of all you guys are both in your 30s are you married or unmarried or yeah we're married yeah we're married go ahead oh yeah are you also mandy go ahead be quiet mandy all right and yeah we. We've only been married for one year, so we're still kind of working out.

Okay. I got you. I got you. And where do you live? We live in Northampton, Massachusetts. Northampton, Massachusetts. Did you come to the show with me and David Reese? No.

On Friday night at the Academy of Music? No. Well, maybe you couldn't get tickets because it was a full house. Thank you, listeners, to Judge John Hodgman. You guys didn't know about this? You didn't come to the show, huh? You didn't see me and Monty Belmonte, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte, doing a Q&A after? Nothing?

No, unfortunately, we missed it. I'm sorry. What do you do there in Northampton, Massachusetts? I'm a librarian. All right. Then you're off the sorry. What do you do there in Northampton, Massachusetts? I'm a librarian. All right. Then you're off the hook. What do you do, Alex? Thank you.

I'm a teacher's aide. I don't even know what that is. I work with the teachers. He bangs the erasers. Yeah, he nailed it. Yeah. Do you also hand out hall passes uh only when asked you know occasionally they need whatever the teachers need are you are you working in are you working in the public school there and what what school level are we talking about uh i work i work mainly with kids

between the ages of 12 and 18 i work i work at a school for kids with special needs. Oh, okay. Very good. And do you have a degree of some kind in this field? Or is this a lifetime pursuit for you? Or is this something you're just doing right now? I guess that's what I'm asking. It's something I kind of fell into.

You know, I had been doing a lot of private teaching. And then I had known that the school was around for a little while. And, yeah, I've been working there ever since i i don't have a degree specifically for special special needs yeah all right well you you both do very valuable and challenging work and so i'm going to let you off the hook retroactively for not coming to the show and also it didn't matter because we had a full house northampton massachusetts is the best. It is. Right. Where are you from originally?

Mandy first. We're both from Massachusetts originally. Okay. Why can't your man walk around in whatever he pleases, and especially his sweet Space Shuttle White 623s? Well, first of all, it's just not really necessary. He has other shoes that he finds comfortable and that are not old man shoes. Also, I find it really disgusting because other people's feet have sweat in those shoes before he bought them.

So I think that that's really gross. And then also, we're married and we're together. So how he looks kind of reflects on me a little bit as well. So it's a little bit embarrassing. Do you have, do you have top style, Mandy? You look great all the time.

No, I don't have top style all the time. All right, Alex, would you dare to criticize Mandy's shoe choice on a very popular internet fake justice podcast? Never. I would never. I don't have a problem with any of her choices.

I just don't. I don't look at her shoe choice. Mandy, what sort of message does Alex send around town about you? When he's strolling down Pearl Street. I married a grandpa man in his 30s. Oh, my. Really? What's a grandpa man?

You know, that's a good. I'll allow that follow up question. What is a grandpa man? You know, that's a good, I'll allow that follow-up question. What is a grandpa man? I don't know. Someone that's 30 but dresses and looks like they're a grandpa. Looks like I'm a, okay. Not in like your young looking in your face. Mandy, does Alex dress in other ways like grandpa man?

Well, pretty much 100% of his wardrobe does come from Salvation Army. So you saw those jeans in the picture. Those are a pretty standard jean look for him, the kind of tapered, faded jeans. And the rest of it is kind of old, worn-in, button-down shirts. And how long have you known him? I've known him for five years. And you started dating five years ago, and you got married a year ago? Is that more or less what we're talking about?

Yep, that's correct. And did he always dress like Grandpa Man when you were dating him? No. dressed like like a grandpa man when you were dating him um no when we first started dating it seemed like he cared a little bit more uh-huh slowly tapered off uh-huh and so now that now that he's married he was he was dressing up nice for you for a while but now that he's married like all married couples he's let himself himself slide. Except usually the guy will wait about 15 years before he gets to the point of wearing vintage 623s. Alex, how many elastic waist pants are you wearing? Oh, geez. You have no idea.

No, I don't have any elastic. They're all jeans. They're just faded. Right, right, right. But no elastic idea. No, I don't have any elastic. They're all jeans. They're just faded. Right, right, right. But no elastic waist? No, no, not yet. I'd also interject here, based on the photographic evidence, to suggest that if the jeans are like the jeans in the photograph, they are less tapered, more relaxed.

Oh, yes. Thank you. Yeah, those are baggy leg, I'm giving up jeans, basically. Absolutely. They're the kind of jeans that we can't see the waist, but one might guess that the waist doesn't fit in one direction. Right, exactly. I do. Actually, I can't give this. This is against me. This is my own evidence against me never mind

no I don't say it there's no podcast fifth amendment I compel you to say it incriminate yourself all right well the waist is too large for me because I lost a little bit of weight recently and rather than actually getting things that fit, I just wear a belt that cinches in. Oh, God, this is embarrassing. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad. Is it a thin black belt with a silver tip on the end and a cowboy buckle? If only. Do you wear a black mock turtleneck?

Let me ask you. I'm just asking you the question. Are you dressing like John Hodgman in 1994? No, I'm just asking you the question. Are you dressing like John Hodgman in 1994? No, no, I'm not. I swear. But you did. You did proactively. You did not incriminate yourself because you proactively answered a question that I was going to ask you, which is, have you put on a whole bunch of weight since you got married?

No, I've lost weight since I got married. Yeah. How do you respond to Mandy's accusation that at least sartorially you are letting yourself go i i don't i don't feel like that's right um i feel like the the clothing that i buy is is just it's i buy it for for how for how comfortable it is and i i don't go for i don't know the difference it's not like i buy something saying wow that really fits my my grandpa you know no you have you have you have no sense of style yeah absolutely would you agree that you have no sense of style at a hundred percent your my style is yeah right you're shopping you you involve in tactile

shopping all you yeah all you do is rub the clothing against your body and decide, is this soft and yielding enough? That's why he wears almost exclusively Angora sweaters. Top and bottom. Exactly. May I say something, though? Yes, Mandy. You may speak. Thank you.

though? Yes, Mandy, you may speak. Thank you. So I just wanted to say that while Alex is fully aware of his bad style, he is incapable of taking criticism or help. So if I try to buy him something or pick out something, he doesn't want to hear what I have to say. Yeah, Alex, how come you're not amenable to having your wife dress you like her doll? I know, yeah. It's pretty bad of me. How do you respond to that accusation? I don't know. Well, all right, let's get specific

because that is the soul of narrative. Mandy, what did you buy for him that he refuses to put on? I've bought him a couple nice button-downs. Some cool Armani suits? Some cool big shoulder pad Armani suits to fancy up his 1990s style? Yeah, get him looking real Richard Gere. I guess that would be 80s, right?

Maybe some sweet bolo ties? Nothing of the sort. bowl do you get him some sweet bolo ties no nothing of the sort what'd you get um i just i try to keep what he wants in mind so i got him this really soft um flannel shirt uh this i thought was really nice and i thought he would like it because it was soft and it would feel good um but i think he's worn it once alex you do you have a neurological problem that causes you, like, are you a super feeler? Do you need everything to be super soft or else you scream with pain? Like, have you ever put on something fitted or sort of something nice? Is that painful to you? She buys me clothes that are, I feel like she buys me clothes that are too big. But this goes back to like when I was a younger, I was a hefty child. And so I always used to wear clothes that were small.

Everything was too small. Yeah. No. Yeah. You were too big. Yeah. And your clothes reminded you of your shame. Believe me, I don't say this.

I say this with a great deal of empathy. I know what you're feeling you know i i too uh have uh have been at various stages of hefty throughout my life and very difficult to fit and clothes that do not fit well remind you or make you feel like a disgusting loathsome human specimen that mandy would never. And I feel, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I feel, I feel sometimes trapped, trapped in the clothes that I,

that I wear. I feel, I always felt better when my pants were loose. Right. Yeah, exactly. Like I like baggy pants, but also like she'll buy me things that just simply, I feel like don't fit.

Like they're too large now. Um, and, and she'll go ahead and, and, and, you know, they'll say,

Oh, it looks, you know, it looks great. But like, I, and, you know, they'll say, Oh, it looks, you know, it looks great. But like, I also have like a weird, a weird shaped body. All right. Let's dial in on this weight loss. How much weight did you lose and how? Probably like, I'd say since that we got married, probably about 15 or 20 pounds. That's great. And was this on purpose or did you have a tumor removed or what? Um, I think I just like ever, you know, when you get stressed out because of a wedding or for whatever reason, I maybe gained

weight because of that. And over the time, I just started walking more and, you know, just eating healthier. So you gained weight in advance of your wedding? Yeah. Which is what we call the reverse bride. Mandy, do you agree that Alex has a

difficult body type to fit? No, I mean, he doesn't fit into the hipster skinny clothes. He has pretty big arms and broad shoulders, but it's not really weird. It's not unusual. I have big arms. And how else would you say that your big, obese, python-like arms is the primary thing that makes it difficult to find clothes that fit you, such that you choose softness and billowy, baggy, beanbag-style clothes? have uh do you have other like are you is one arm longer than the other do you have you know sort of like a uh you know other like how else would you describe your disgusting body okay okay no i the way i see it is i have like a bigger neck and i have big arms and as a result of that if i wear something that fits my arms and my neck correctly it's going to be way too long for my waist and

then i'll have to like shove it into my pants like trying to put you know like a parachute back into a bag and so instead i need to no no i like this is what i want to hear yeah absolutely yeah yeah i'm just i'm just laying it out straight you got a big you got a big neck and big arms and so yeah like you wear big shirts and big jackets that are too big for your tiny little waist and body. Actually, I wish I could totally agree with you, but it's actually kind of the opposite. Usually I tend to buy things that are too small because I like the comfort feel of it. I don't want to hear about how much you like the comfort feel of things touching your skin. This has been established on the podcast already.

You don't have to keep saying it. But I thought you said that you buy things that are too big for you. The pants. The pants are too big. Shirts are too small. Oh, Jesus. Wow. Okay. Pants are too big. Shirts are too

small. We're talking MC Hammer. So I guess this is what I'm trying to get at. Why aren't we talking about the shoes? Mandy, are you really upset about the shoes or are you upset about Alex's whole look and approach to style? Well, I think the shoes are just kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just way too over the line. Right. So the shoes, I can deal with the bottom of the iceberg.

They definitely are. And they kind of speak to the larger issue. But yeah, the shoes, I just couldn't tolerate. How would you like Alex to dress? Do you have brands in mind? I'll allow you to say them if you have them. No, I don't have brands in mind i think just maybe peppering in some new clothes into his wardrobe so he doesn't always look like he's wearing secondhand clothes every day you know

that he's a teacher's aide in a in a school for uh uh is it mentally ill kids it's kids with emotion emotional and behavioral disorders emotional and behavioral disorders. Emotional and behavioral disorders. So how many thousands of dollars do you have a month to spend on clothes then, Alex? How many extra dollars do you have? We don't – I mean we keep a pretty tight budget. I let Mandy get whatever new clothes that she wants because it's not so much the budget part. It's more that just i've never been into the i i've always found style to be just you know ridiculous the idea of it why why yeah i feel like you know um clothing style is is so subjective for every person that it doesn't make sense that i have to you know change the way that i look in order to like hopefully

get a you know for other people to you know like look at me and look at the clothing that I'm wearing and say, oh, this person is that way. Or, oh, this person holds these views because of the clothing that he wears. Alex, Mandy accused you of baiting her into marriage with you by briefly dressing well. By briefly dressing well. And now that you're married, you don't give a feces anymore. And you're just going to walk on over to the Goodwill and dress up like a granddad. Okay. How do you respond to that accusation?

I will let. Did you dress up nicely in order to court and woo Mandy? And now you don't care anymore. Yes. Is that true? That's true. That's true. How did you dress?

What, what, what constituted dressing more nicely when you were courting your bride? I don't know. I think I just probably, I think I was more vain than two. I was like 25. So I was like, just, yeah, I was more of a, more. Like now I just don't really I don't I don't really care about other people's opinions of me. Yeah. Yeah. You're you're 10 years too early. You're only 30.

Oh, wait till you're 40 to give up. Yeah. Right. Can I ask you a sincere question? Do you not care about other people's opinions of you or do you not care about other people? Oh, wow. No, I'm very empathic. I mean, I yeah, I mean, I work I work at a school for kids with, you know, emotional behavioral disorders. I don't do it for the paycheck. I'm very empathic towards others. You just do it. You just do it to say it on podcasts over and over. So that we'll say, oh, what a hero. I think you are a hero. I'm just kidding.

Yeah, I started like yesterday just so I could say it today. Yeah, I can't let John Hodgman know that my real job is, I don't know, what's the most loathsome job, Jesse? Podcaster. Yeah, I can't let him know that I'm just a graphic designer. I got to go out and do something that's going to cover up. But if you were a graphic designer, then you would have a sense for the aesthetic,

but it sounds like you don't, you don't care much for the aesthetic. No, I simply don't. That's true. I don't. Yeah. Mandy,

how would you have described the style that Alex was rocking before he let himself go to Jerry Seinfeldian Seed? I guess a similar theme, but just it looked like he cared more. So the clothes looked a little bit newer, but nothing really fancy or brand name. but nothing really fancy or brand name um he would often wear like uh i don't know a blazer a blazer when we go out on dates and he had like dress shoes that weren't sneakers do you not have dress shoes now alex see i i have to object i absolutely wear dress shoes when we go like when we go like somewhere formal i do have dress shoes and and to be totally honest i just let mandy dress me like in the few shirts that i do have that she does that she doesn't appreciate like we have a few shirts that are choice that somehow i lucked out when i went shopping and they happened to fit

both my tactile needs and it hurt and it hurt yeah that is super creepy yeah it really is i'm really sorry your shirts are ribbed or something oh geez um my sister told me not to be creepy on this podcast um uh no and so yeah and so i lucked out and they looked good mandy thought they looked good too so we have those the problem is they've like been worn too often and probably don't look good anymore now so mandy would you agree that it's entirely possible to dress well in secondhand clothing that seems like that seems like a line that's getting blurred and i wonder if that's your intent uh no i don't have a problem with the secondhand clothing per se um it's just that he happens to pick the ones that look really worn. Because they're more comfortable.

Yeah, because he likes stuff to be broken in. He likes his shirts to have been softened by the skin of another man. He likes his 623s to have been buttered with the foot sweat of a famous comedian, of course. He wants it pre-loved. And I agree with you, it's disgusting. Right, and I feel like you could wash clothes and be reasonably sure they're clean, but I can't be reasonably sure that the sneakers are clean. Let me turn to an expert for a moment, and that expert is Bailiff Jessie Thorne, who does,

of course, host a menswear blog and videocast called Put This On. And Jessie, one of the things that I love is when you will post links to some of the finds that you've discovered on eBay and other websites of vintage and old, you know, previously owned shoes, slacks, jackets, suits, ties, whatever it is. I find it be fascinating how much beautiful old stuff is out there that I would be very happy to wear today. So the question that I would ask Jesse is, obviously, you're not against wearing old shoes, right? You don't mind wearing... No, I think there are certainly, there are exceptions as with anything, but in principle, no, not at all. Shoes of a dead man, that doesn't bother you? Doesn't bother me at all. What do you think about Mandy's disgust at the fact that these

athletic shoes were probably sweated in by someone who may no longer be alive. Well, I'll say this. Mandy isn't the only person to feel that way. I sometimes hear from, put this on readers, who are specifically bothered by shoes because shoes are more difficult to effectively disinfect or whatever. And so she's not alone. However, you know, it's an I would I would say that it's an irrational thing, not a rational thing. So it's not something that bothers me personally. I'm not going to tell people not to be bothered by things that they're bothered by. Me personally, I'm not going to tell people not to be bothered by things that they're bothered by, but it's not about I don't think you're going to get any horrible foot diseases from someone's shoes, especially maybe if you, you know, you can always spray a little bit of that bowling alley spray. And I do actually I have that. I do spray them. You have bowling alley spray?

Well, not specifically bowling alley spray, but yeah, the disinfectant that they sell at like a convenience store. The truth is it's not any dirtier in there after, you know, they've been sitting on the shelves of the thrift store for a couple of months than it is, you know, if you're walking around barefoot in your own house or whatever. Yeah, but have you looked, Jesse, though, I have to say, I mean, I'm not against science, but have you looked at a picture of these 623s? I mean, they're just a big white leathery sponge. I mean, I can understand that they're incredibly comfortable, and I certainly wouldn't disavow using them for cross-training purposes, which I think is what they're sold for, or especially for using in a therapeutic environment or in a hospital. Do you know what I mean? Like for doing aqua aerobics? But it does look like you're wearing two big white leather meatballs on the end of your legs.

Well, they're spectacularly ugly shoes. There's no doubt about that. Well, they're spectacularly ugly shoes. There's no doubt about that. They're shoes that I would be hesitant to wear even in a purpose-focused environment. Even if those were cycling shoes and I was a competitive cyclist, I would look at them and say to the equipment person from my team, could we get something a little less Jerry Seinfeld-y? And you can. I mean, and that's really a lot of what this hinges on here specifically is that these are not merely previously owned shoes, and nor are they merely ugly in the eye of the beholder. They are signifiers of a particular era, a very strong signifier. You know, faded jeans with these kinds of shoes and skinny little western belts and bolo ties. You're really sending,

whether you know it or not, you're sending an aesthetic message that is not merely like, I like to have the softest things touch my body. You're sending a different message, a specific one. And I also don't think that it is a message that from what I hear has been

chosen. It's not as though he's Alexa Chung and he's choosing to pioneer normcore, you know, rejecting, basically embracing aesthetics by rejecting aesthetics. Oh, yeah. right that's a very difficult and specific thing to pull off i think yeah i would also add that i think there are no he just goes in he just goes into the goodwill and has them pile up the softest clothes and shoes that they have and then he jumps into them like all right goes into the goodwill takes off all his clothes and goes swimming and see what feels best. I just go in between the aisles, like just putting my hands out and waiting for the thing that touches my hand to have the right feel. I would say that there are worn clothes that in some ways patinate, which is to say that they gain something through wear. then there are worn clothes that

get worn out um and if you're not making a distinction there i can very much understand the concern here which is that you look like you're just wearing worn out clothes rather than wearing clothes clothes that gain something through wear that's exactly it wait i have a question so after this we're going to the gym and i was going to wear those on the elliptical machine with mandy elliptical laying next to me would that be an inappropriate use for these shoes you know elliptically you know i i think um i'm trying to think of how to put this for you, Ace. I think it would be fine. I have a certain I have a certain respect in my heart for for people who don't wear special gym clothes and instead just wear the clothes that they're that they own already that are their most comfortable destroying for sort of, you know, for environmental reasons and, um, you know,

so on and so forth, you know, the, the reverse of conspicuous consumption and so on. Um, now if you're asking me, would I wear those shoes in public in any context? The answer is no.

I have a pair of shoes that I bought. I have a pair of new balances that I bought at the thrift store that I wear when I'm walking my dogs, but they're not those ones. Yeah. Yeah, this is in no way – I mean, I don't think either Jesse nor I wish to tar and feather a particular brand. I mean, New Balance is a – since we brought it up as a matter of fact, it is a company that is known for the comfort over the style of its particular footwear. But really, we're just talking about your choice of these shoes. Mandy, if I were to find in your favor, what would you have Alex do to replace these shoes? I think that he should re-donate them to the Goodwill, and there might be some older gentlemen that might want them and benefit from them.

And he has a pair of athletic shoes that I think are a good replacement for them that he can continue to wear. How much did you pay for the shoes, Alex? Five dollars. How often do you pay for the shoes, Alex? Five dollars. How often do you go to the gym? I mean, it's more than just gym shoes, though. They're my strolling shoes. No, no, I understand.

I know that you stroll easy peasy through life, naked through the goodwill, feeling the clothes, just enjoying the feel of the clothes against your skin right right do you have other what like when you say these are your strolling shoes you have a pair of you have a pair of dress shoes i have a pair of yeah i have a pair of dress shoes i have a very good pair of hiking shoes and a very good pair of running shoes these are just like my crappy strolling shoes. And just tell me, when you say strolling, what are you talking about? Are you going? Like, you know, like going, you know, like to the gym, not to go for a run, but like being on the elliptical where pretty much you're not moving your feet or, you know, throwing them on because I don't even have to untie them to just put them on and then walk to the store.

I'm not sure those would be safe to wear on the elliptical anyway. Oh, I mean, you're going to fly. I think fly i think your shoes you're gonna your shoes are gonna fall off and you're gonna go flying off that elliptical oh yeah it's true i never thought about that way all right i think i've heard everything i need to make my decision i am going to stroll into this into this big pile of raw cashmere that i have in my chambers. Just luxuriate around in it for a while, and I will allow that to guide my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Alex, have you ever thought about kind of a cashmere goat aesthetic? I mean, I've never particularly looked into it.

I've never been able to feel it, but. Or what about this? You know how you can get like silk long underwear. Have you ever thought about getting silk long underwear and then just wearing that underneath everything? I mean, you could literally wear a sandpaper suit if you wanted, if you had silk long underwear on underneath.

Is that expensive? It's not that expensive. I mean, you only have to get one set. There you go. I'll wait and just like wear them all day and night, like in the Western times, like they used to have that like full, full get up. Yeah, exactly. Until they disintegrated like a World War II, like a Civil War soldier. You never know. Maybe that's what I'm looking for secretly. Mandy, are you actually embarrassed to be seen with your husband in public?

Uh, not generally. No, but, uh, I do feel the need to point out certain, like the shoes, um,

to excuse them when I'm wearing public. Alex, have you ever thought of developing a simple uniform? you know like uh as as louis ck or steve jobs did when they decided they didn't want to think about dressing themselves oh you mean like how louis oh he has like the the jeans and the black t-shirt and like you know steve jobs always has that steve jobs look i don't know um yeah i actually just have the same thing that i wear i i have like a series of really uh athletic polo shirts you know they're made of that athletic material and i just wear that in a pair of jeans oh god i said i said that didn't i

athletic material you know what i mean i know what you're talking about polyester that's it oh god you're wearing like you're wearing like wicking golf shirts. Yeah, I am. Yeah, every day to work. I don't think it makes the kids any, you know, doesn't help them, not help them. Alex, how do you feel about your chances in the case? You know, I honestly can't say I thought, you know, I thought Judge Hodgman would would take pity on on me trying to be a thrifty and just wearing what I wanted. But now I'm starting to to to waver.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure what he's going to come out with. Mandy, why don't you just let this man that you love flout societal conventions? I feel like give the world a wet willy in speaker form uh i feel like i give him uh i'm pretty forgiving to what he wears uh so i think it's not too much to ask to ask that the shoes be gone is the one thing i'm asking. I'm very forgiving with the rest. And, you know, whether we like it or not, what we wear says something about us. How do you feel about your chances?

I think I have a really good chance of winning this. They seem to be universally bad sneakers. Yeah, they don't like them. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about the situation when we come back in just a moment. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them

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restrictions apply please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom before i render my verdict i'd just like to say a few words about new balance sneakers it's not often that we mention a specific brand name here on this podcast and and that is in part because I don't want to give advertising to people who refuse to pay me for it. Moxie. Nor do I want to unnecessarily malign a company because it produces one unstylish shoe that may in fact be just right for someone out there who has terrible foot problems and needs a three-point arch support in order to get along. New Balance also is a company that is founded in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, just like Northampton, Massachusetts was also founded in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It is my home commonwealth, and so I do want to just say these words.

According to Wikipedia, New Balance was founded in 1906 by William J. Riley, a British emigrant, as the New Balance Arch Support Company. And I want to just quote directly from here. It is believed that Riley came up with the name New Balance by observing chickens in his yard and demonstrated the way his arch supports worked by keeping a chicken foot on his office desk. He explained to customers that the chicken's three-clawed foot resulted in perfect balance. In 1927, Riley hired Arthur Hall to be a salesman because Riley himself was the worst salesman of all time with his chicken foot scheme. I added a little to the end there.

End quote. Alex, do you have chicken feet? Do you have the foot of a chicken? I don't. I'm sure these 623s work great for a lot of people, and that's why they buy them. And that's why they buy them new. And then they don't work very well for some people after a while, and that's why they get rid of them and put them in the Goodwill. And Goodwill puts them out going, no one will ever buy this.

And then here comes Alex to surprise everyone. I am not going to order you to get rid of these sneakers oh no i mean the the reality the reality is that you need them in your house the reality is that they're perfectly good sneakers that you that you spent five dollars on and would be perfectly appropriate for you to wear at work or in a non-social situation where style does not matter at all and comfort reigns supreme. Now, I would actually ask you next time you put on these sweet 623s to really evaluate how comfortable they are because you have a pair of decent running shoes, correct? Yes. And you know the difference between a pair of relatively new, decent shoes that are used for a specific purpose, particularly an athletic purpose, versus some that are all beat up

and worn out and sweated in by some other dude, right? Absolutely. up and worn out and sweated in by some other dude right absolutely did you not did you not yourself say that uh that these shoes uh you don't even need to untie them anymore because they no longer are are fitting properly i suppose you're right yeah yeah i don't need to you know that said if you if you find these to be tactilely comfortable to your own weird skin and you want to wear them in a non-social occasion where your wife will not see them i cannot stop you from doing that but rather i think more important is that you keep your shoes around as a reminder of how thrift shopping can go right

and thrift shopping can go wrong i think jesse thorn has pointed out that there is a true art and style and wonderment to finding beautiful and interesting pieces of clothing that have been previously owned. And there is something great, not just from a bargain point of view, but I think from a soul point of view of rescuing something that would otherwise be garbage and realizing this looks really good on me. In fact, up in Brattleboro, Vermont, I found a 1920s era heavy wool tuxedo jacket that is the most gorgeous thing that I've ever owned. I got it for 20 bucks. I had it altered, or actually I need to have it altered to make it fit a little bit better, but it is wonderful to rescue something, an orphaned piece of clothing that deserves continued life and to wear those things. It is also especially exciting if you are somebody with a big thick neck and weird fat sausage-like arms like you have or to have a weird bulgy midsection but small waist like I have to find clothing that fits in a very specific and particular way. And lots of times thrift shopping is the place where you find a piece of clothing that's been altered or tailored by someone who also shared your horrible deformities. And now you get to wear them and they feel good.

But let us just say that it is clear that these shoes are no good right these are no good shoes not only are they do they speak of a specific style and i would caution mandy to stop with the ageism and talking about old man shoes and grandpa shoes and everything else grandpas need to wear shoes too you know but rather they speak to a very specific era and style, which I think is appropriate to say, you know, mid-run Seinfeld era Jerry Seinfeldian. Or for that matter, you know, well until the 2000s, the style of Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs also wore New Balance shoes with faded jeans. I mean, i know because i had to pretend to be him in one of those ads and they're like yep this is what he wears and i put on those and i put on the new balance sneakers that wardrobe provided me and i truly felt like i was i was walking on a million pillows and it was not nice it is a very it announces a very specific style, that big white space shuttle shoe and those faded jeans. And I urge you, and nay, I order you to develop a sense of style. Because what you do not want in your life, there are two things that I caution you both as you go into year two of your marriage.

One, Mandy, don't dress your husband. He's not a child. He may just, he does not have a developed sense of aesthetics. And he could certainly use some gentle suggestions and guidance. I'm not saying that you can't ever say that his shoes look dumb. You can. That's the price that he has to pay for wearing dumb shoes. Do you know what I mean?

Thank you. But, but you know, the, the job should be not merely as a husband, but as an individual person, sir, to develop your own sense of style and to do so with some thoughtfulness to

how you appear next to your lovely wife. And I would also say that, you know, the other thing that you should think about going into your second year of marriage, sir, as husband,

don't obviously let yourself go. You know what I mean? Like you got to take care in this relationship. And just because now you're married doesn't mean you can put on the ugliest pair of jeans you can find. Yeah, absolutely. Right. You know, and I think for someone who has, who is difficult to fit, you have a job to do, which is to find those clothes. And it may be thrift clothes, or it may be new clothes, dare I say, a brand or a line that fits well and to find those pants and find those shirts that fit you well. There is more to life than just feeling soft, soft materials against your skin.

There is also an aesthetic principle of finding clothes that fit you well and look good on you because you will feel better when you are wearing clothes that look good on you. It's just, that's the way it goes. Right. And, uh, you know, I will say without, without buzz marketing, I'm a guy who always, always, always, always had difficulty finding pants that fit me properly, that fit good. Right. Cause I got this big old bulgy old man waist that I've always had difficulty finding pants that fit me properly that fit good right because i got this big old bulgy old man waist that i've always had and uh but i've got beautifully proportioned legs and the most gorgeous calves anyone has ever seen not true this is this was this this difficulty and finding pants informed the one the one fragment of a rap song I ever tried to write. It was during the same year,

in 1987, as Pianosaurus wrote that thrift shopping song. And it's the other thing that if I close my eyes for any period of time, it will come back to me because it is so etched into my memory. I wear white gloves like Bullwinkle Moose. I feel better when my pants are loose. That was my rap. That was my one rap that I ever wrote. That was beautiful. I know. It was a good beginning, and I never chose to end it.

Did you wear white gloves, or was that just a thing to make the rhyme work? No, that was my funny, like Sam the Butcher bringing Alice the Meat. That was my little cultural reference. Do you know what I mean? I think you need to get Pianosaurus back together and finish that song. No, no, I'll finish it eventually. I'm still working on it. I'm still working on my rap.

Okay. But it was a knowing cultural reference followed by an observation that was profoundly personally sincere and revealing. It was sarcasm and vulnerability, the classic Hodgman combo. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Only in the past 18 months have I found a brand of pants that fits me really

well. And I am so, so happy for the sake of my, of my self esteesteem that these pants are not dockers. It so happens that these pants are not old man pants. I'll risk being ageist myself, but young person pants. And for some reason they're, they're just, uh, they fit me just right. And that's now the only thing I will wear. And you owe it to yourself, sir, to find that brand or that cut, whether it is doing deep research in that goodwill and spending

some extra time to find a thing that fits properly or going out and getting some tailored clothes or going out and finding a brand of new stuff that fits good and looks good. You may do so in consultation with your wife, but ultimately you have to express yourself. And expressing yourself by wearing pre-owned clothes from the thrift shop is great, but you still got to look good. These shoes, never mind the style of the shoes, people can see on the blog, they're all scuffed up. They look terrible. You know what I mean? Look through

magazines, look at Jesse's blog, see what makes you feel good, see what makes you what you like, and then keep these big old puffy meatball shoes around as a reminder for how you should never do it again. Yeah, yeah. Never forget. Wear them to the gym and wear them on the elliptical. These are shoes that deserve an elliptical machine, the dumbest machine. Wear these shoes on that elliptical and look at yourself hard in the mirror and say,

am I ever going to wear these shoes again? Am I ever going to be on the elliptical machine again? The answer in both cases should be no. I'll save my rant against the elliptical machines for another time. But in the meantime, those are my orders, but I still find in the favor of Alex, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge sean hodgman exits the courtroom alex you've won the case but have i you've lost it to life it's just a pair of sneakers it's not that big a deal yeah um how are you feeling right now

i'm feeling good i i i have to say that his last his last uh talk about finding a pair of jeans or something a style of um a brand that that fits me well is something i've never actually even considered like to just look at the brand that that fits me the best and then to kind of just stick stick with that and get a few things that felt well, that makes sense. My wife is nodding her head at me. So yeah, I've never even thought of that. Mandy, based on your head nodding, it sounds like you might be happy with this decision. I'm very happy with the decision. I think that John Hodgman has instilled a little bit of wisdom upon my husband. And even though the shoes have to stay in the house,

I'm glad that they are no longer going to be the focus of the wardrobe. Do you think, Mandy, that at this point you'll be able to allow them to stay in the house without pointing them out to people who come visit as a preemptory measure? I think it will be very hard for me. I mean, they're the Judge John Hodgman sneakers now. They have to go in a small little plaque or something. Judge John Hodgman poking his head out of the chambers again just to say, do you guys live in a freestanding house or an apartment? We live in an apartment.

Do you have a fireplace or anything? Do you have a mantelpiece? Oh, we really want a fireplace. But we do have a kind of mant mantle shrine-like area, which these will be placed on in the highest order. Judge Hodgman, do you think these shoes will even burn or do you think they'll melt? Oh, you want to put them on the mantelpiece. Yeah, yeah, yeah, mantelpiece. Hide them in plain sight. Yeah, yeah. No, I don't think they would melt either. I don't think you could destroy them. That's part of the reason why I don't want them to get rid of

them because they're not they're not destroyable. Well, Mandy, Alex, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks so much. Thanks for having us. Thank you, guys. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-o-d-c-a-s-t-i-a hmm are you trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-P-P-P-D-C-O-O We are so close Stop podcasting yourself A podcast from MaximumFun.org

If you need a laugh and you're on the go Judge Hodgman I wear white gloves like bull with cold mousse, man Judge Hodgman? I wear white gloves like bull with cold moose, man. I feel better when my pants are loose, man. So you've added man to the end of those lines? I'm still working on it. It's been, what year is it? 2014?

It's 2014, yeah. Yeah, I'll get it done before 30 years are up. Okay. I mean, that seems reasonable. I have to say, the whole the whole time like that entire case i had the tribe called quest song bugging out going through my head uh-huh styles upon styles upon styles is what i have you don't you want to diss the fifa but you still don't know the half i sport new balance sneakers to avoid the narrow path that's right mess around with this you catch a size 8 up your, you know.

Keister. Yeah, family show. Yeah, that's right. Hey, guess what? I don't know what. Max Fun Con tickets on sale now. Bonk. Online at maxfuncon.com. You can see me and John and lots of other amazing people in a beautiful resort in the mountains of Southern California, June 12th through June 14th.

May I use a word that I don't use very often, Jesse? Yeah, sure. About this location? Mm-hmm. Bucolic. It is bucolic. It's incredibly bucolic. The only thing that would make it more bucolic would be just a few goats walking around.

Oh, I'm bringing goats. Oh, great. You think I'm not bringing goats to MaxFunCon this year? Oh, great. Usually, you always teach that goat class, but you usually just make everyone in the class draw a picture of a goat and treat it like it was a real goat. Yeah, well, then there was that year we did all the paper mache goats. Oh, yeah, I remember that was that actually was really fun that gave it a certain kind of saints day festival feeling that had a little bit of zip yeah but this year real goats fantastic should i still bring my goat mask uh yeah absolutely because well i'm because

of the satanic worship but maybe that's not something you want to mention. Maybe you want to save that as a surprise. Yeah, well, I mean, that's sort of, I mean, it's sort of a secret. The cat's out of the bag now, I guess. Or the goat is. Anyway, go to maxfuncon.com if you want tickets to that. Our episode this week, the title suggested by David Hobson. Thank you, David.

Thanks, David. If you want to name an episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter. John is at Hodgman. I am at Jesse Thorne. And we are on Facebook at I believe it's Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman, if I remember correctly. Judge John Hodgman, if I remember correctly. You can also talk about this episode in our forum at forum.maximumfund.org, in the Facebook, including in the Maximum Fund Facebook group, which is facebook.com slash maximumfund.org,

and on Reddit at maximumfund.reddit.com. Or you can say something about it on Twitter. Just hashtag it JJHo. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO MaximumFun.org slash JJHO and share it with us there. Big or small, Judge Hodgman reads them all.

That's a lot of links and stuff. We ought to release a pamphlet. You know what? If you want a pamphlet about Judge John Hodgman, send $10 and a self-addressed stamped envelope to one two three podcast street ten dollars or a copy of your zine to post office box 200 alston station alston massachusetts that's not a real address don't send anything there and i will in i will wear my new balance sneakers and my bolo tie, dressed up like David Byrne in True Stories, and I'll read your zine and I'll trade you a zine of mine. And we'll all live again like it's the golden years of 1994.

You know, my friend Roman Mars, who's the host of the wonderful podcast 99% Invisible. Yes, sir. And also the boss of the wonderful podcast network Radiotopia. Yes, sir. the boss of the wonderful podcast network Radiotopia. Yes, sir. He started his radio career on KALW in San Francisco, California, my home public radio station.

They carry Bullseye even now. Yes, even now. And I used to listen to that station for two reasons. One, they gave out the free school lunch, and as a person who qualified for free school lunch, this was a very important consideration in planning my day. And number two, Roman had a show on there called Invisible Ink, which was presented as a zine for the airwaves. And I don't think anything could have dated it to the mid-90s more precisely than presenting a radio show as a zine for the airwaves. When I used to go shopping for zines in Alston, Massachusetts,

at the Primal Plunge, the bookstore run by Mick McGinnis, the older guy who would sell me zines, and he would say to me, no, I'm never going to get one of those compact disc players. That's just the rich man's 8-track. And for many, many years, he could not be more profoundly wrong. And then now it turns out he's profoundly right. He was right all along. You can email us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to Julian Burrell on the boards this week. And of course, the great Julia Smith,

our producer, and Mark McConville, our editor. We'll talk to you next time on Judge John Hodgman. Court is adjourned. Maximumfund.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.