Judge John Hodgman - Coming Out of the Supply Closet

Episode Date: January 2, 2013

Ben and Sara are co-workers, friends, and most recently, romantically entangled. They've kept their office romance a secret for months, and Ben says it's time to go public. Sara thinks it's more fun to sneak around and wants to keep their relationship a covert operation.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Scott Adsit. This week, coming out of the supply closet, Ben and Sarah are co-workers, friends, and most recently, lovers. They've kept their office romance a secret for months, and Ben thinks it's time to go public. Sarah says it's more fun to sneak around and wants to keep their relationship a covert operation. Who is right? Who is wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Look, Sarah, I know you care about him.

I have never seen you like this about anyone, so please don't take it wrong when I tell you that I believe that guest bailiff Scott Adsit, while a very nice guy, is the devil. And what do you think the devil is going to look like if he's around? Nobody's going to be taken in if he has a long red pointy tail. No, I'm semi-serious here. He will look attractive, and he'll be nice and helpful, and he'll get a job where he influences a great God-fearing nation, and he will never do an evil thing. He will just bit by little bit lower standards where they are important, just coax along, flash over substance just a tiny bit, and he will talk about all of us really being salesmen,

and he'll get all the great women. There, I buried the lead. Swear I'm in, Scott. Ben and Sarah, please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that Judge Hodgman only understands human desire on a conceptual level, and while he finds it quaint, he himself has

reached a plateau beyond its shackles? I do. I do. Thank you both. Judge John Hodgman proceeds. Ben, Sarah, thank you for joining the court today for an immediate summary judgment. Can either of you name the specific piece of culture? I was paraphrasing as I entered the court today when I called guest bailiff Scott Adsit the devil for compromising the world with 30 Rock. Ben? Yeah, I think this relates to my namesake, Ben Affleck. Maybe this was Gigli that you were quoting? No, it was not. Actually, I've never seen that movie.

Interesting. I'll have to take a look at that. Uh, Sarah, do you have any guesses? Uh, alas, I don't. No, because you're- So I do. Oh, do you guess Bale of Scott Adsit? May I? Yes, please.

Uh, I believe that was Albert Brooks being robbed of an Oscar in broadcast news. Absolutely right. And do you know why guess Bale, Scott Adsit knew that, Ben and Sarah? Because he's a movie nerd? Because he's an old person like me. And you are young people in love. Is that not so? It's the case. You're young people in like?

Could we say that at least? I think that's appropriate. I think this case just judged itself. What are your ages, if I may ask? I'm 24. Okay. I'm 24 as well judged itself. What are your ages, if I may ask? I'm 24. Okay. I'm 24 as well. Oh, perfect.

This is getting better and better. And Sarah, you both work together, is that correct? Yes, that's correct. And do the people at your place of work know your first names? They do. Do they know the sounds of your voices? Mm-hmm. And are they capable of listening to podcasts, or are they all deaf?

I mean, that remains to be seen. I see. They haven't discovered the internet yet. All right. Now, I'm actually just trying to figure out, it only just occurred to me now, that while at this moment your relationship is a secret, certainly by the time this podcast is podcasted, it will no longer be a secret. So now I'm wondering whether or not this is a legitimate dispute or whether or not you're just buzz marketing your office romance to your office mates. Which is it? I actually don't think, regrettably, I don't think that they listen to this particular podcast.

That is a reasonable answer. So Ben, you two work together. You are consultants. Is that correct? That's correct. Economic consultants. Economic consultants. Economic consultants. Let's call the whole thing off. And so that means you work in an office that has clients that pay you a lot of money to give them advice for which you are not accountable? Sure.

All right. Nice job. Nice work if you can get it. And how long have you worked there, Ben? About a year and three months now. Oh, okay. And Sarah, how long have you worked there? Just about to say about a time.

Oh, my gosh. You guys are even, Stephen. Same age, no seniority in any sense. Do you guys have the same birthday? Oh, are you brother and sister? No? I'm actually, I'm, oh no, Ben's older. Ben's a little bit older. I always keep thinking that I'm the older one.

Oh, okay. Are you the more mature one? I'd hope that'd be the case. Maybe I'm also the smarter one. Oh. Well, let me ask you this question. You guys began a relationship in this office, or you guys came to this office as a boyfriend, girlfriend? I don't know if children still use those terms to describe each other. Polyamorous pals or whatever it is?

No, it just started recently, about three months ago. Oh, okay. And it is a secret from your office right now? That's correct. How did it begin? What from your office right now. That's correct. How did it begin? What was your first take? Let me just say that there is one person in our office who knows, who actually was made aware of the fact by Sarah. Oh, interesting.

Were you obligated then to bring them into a three-way? I'm sorry, a what? Were you obligated to bring that other person into a three-way to keep the secret within the group? Sure, I'm unfamiliar with the term. Yes, no, you have to understand they're only 24 years old, Scott. They don't know our old hippie terms. A three-way... I'm sorry, an Eiffel Tower.

To contemporary 24-year-olds, a three-way is known as Wednesday.iffel tower to contemporary to contemporary 24 year olds a three-way is known as wednesday yeah we've had a few of those uh oh you've enjoyed now wait let me ask you've enjoyed a few times is that true have you had uh one of those a wednesday a wednesday i have no clue what we are talking about so you started dating uh a few months ago how. How did it come to pass that you guys made a pass at each other? Did you go out on a date? Oh, well, do you know what a date is? I guess Zara started spending a lot of time in my cube.

Oh, boy. I think then we started to spend some time outside of work. I'd say the first date we went on was at a pretty amateur stand-up comedy joint over in the Richmond. We live in San Francisco. So the Richmond is a place a little bit less traveled in the city. And so we went to this amateur stand-up joint. Zara was the only woman in the audience at the time.

joint. Sarah was the only woman in the audience at the time. And so a bunch of the standup comics like to, uh, like to look at us and to try to try to get us in on the act. And so in one of the performances, somebody asked if we were dating. Uh, and I basically responded, I said, not yet. And then I think that's when things may have gotten a little bit more real. Is that indeed Sarah, when things got a little bit more real? Uh, yes. He's speaking truthfully. Now, you have already taken one person in the office into your confidence, but you want to hold it there. Why? Well, initially, I was reluctant to share for professional reasons. I just thought it would be better to not publicize it. But since then, I've just come to realize that I really sort of

enjoy being a little duplicitous. And I just think it's a bit fun. It's like playing a long, ongoing prank. I see. And how many people are in the office? Well, we have people who occupy the same position position as us there's probably about 23 of them so you're not approaching this from some kind of randy cohen ethicist point of view you just like fooling people and keeping secrets from them uh i wouldn't say that's the entirety of the story but it certainly is part of it uh and and ben meanwhile you would like to you would like the world to know that you're having Wednesdays with your friend Sarah. Sarah, excuse me.

Absolutely. And why? Well, I think that some of my best friends in San Francisco work in my office, and I've liked telling them about this new relationship I'm in. But they don't believe it because I can't furnish a Facebook photo. So Ben, you would like to tell your office mates, because you are out there saying you are in a relationship, but you are unable to reveal the name or identity of the person you're in a relationship with, which whether you are 24 as you are, or as Scott Adsit and I are, 29, means the same thing.

That you are lying. That you have no girlfriend at all. And therefore, you are humiliated in front of your friends because you are using the old, you have a secret girlfriend excuse. Is that not so? That is the case. But, Your Honor, if I may, I've come up with a solution for this that Ben doesn't seem to be taking quite seriously. All right. What is the solution?

So, well, I ended up doing this a week or two ago. I brought in a decoy boyfriend. Yes. So I managed to convince one of my friends, who I've known for many years, to come into the office and be introduced as my boyfriend. And so Ben could do the same thing if he felt so inclined. Let me ask you this. Is your office located in a situation comedy? Is this actually an office?

Or is your office an art project where you are imitating a situation comedy from the 90s? Like, do you ever do any work? Is this the 30 Rock of offices? Decoy Boyfriend. It sounds like the Office of Offices. The Office of Offices, right? Yeah, you're absolutely right. I apologize, Scott. I didn't mean to malign 30 Rock, one of my favorite shows.

Buzz marketing for a show that is over. Anyway, I have a thought, Your Honor, if I may. Yeah, please. It seems to me, and this may be too obvious to state, that Sara seems to be the catch in this relationship, as it were. And Ben would love to be seen with her, while Sara would rather not be seen or connected with Ben publicly. I guess Bailiff Scott adds that please stop flirting with the litigants. I'm so sorry, sir. He's doing this to everyone.

It's really weird. Sarah, tell me about your decoy. May I respond, Your Honor? Oh my gosh. This is actually becoming a love triangle right here. Go on. I'll get out of the way. Could you leave us alone, please?

I'd like to see where this is going. I'll get out of the way. Could you leave us alone, please? I'd like to see where this is going. I'll allow it. So I've actually introduced Ben to a number of my closest friends outside of work. So it's not that I'm embarrassed or whatever. I think that he's absolutely fantastic. When you introduce him, do you introduce him as your cousin from Europe? And do you make him speak in an accent in order to trick those people? No, I introduce him as my man friend. As your man friend. Hmm. All right. But tell me about your decoy boyfriend. I like that a lot. What happened? You got an old friend of

yours to come by? Yeah. So he was a friend of mine from school. So nobody really in our office had ever met him before. And I've known him for many, many years. And because this is a sitcom, may I presume that your friend is gay? Because that's what would happen in a sitcom. And then he would have to pretend that he was having sex with you all the time, but he wouldn't know the terms because it was a 1970s sitcom. Alas, I lack that sort of attention to detail. Oh, wow. But he and I had a couple conversations and decided that it would be best to go with Oh, wow. or all your friends. That was it. And I mean, actually, I really was very happy that he came in

because it brought me a little bit more leeway. I was able to, you know, extend the prank for a while longer. And like now, you know, I can say things in the office

without raising suspicion. It's good. Ben. May I ask? I'm sorry. I'll allow it. Ben. Thank you.

Ben, does it bother you that she's such an adept liar? I'm over it. Ben, thank you. Ben, does it bother you that she's such an adept liar? I'm over it. So you're prepared for a future of chicanery? Well, let me say that she actually isn't a good liar. We actually had this game going where we would describe our significant other in the office, and it was sort of the case where you couldn't lie about the person. You were allowed three lies, but then three strikes and you were out and you lost the game. And so because Sarah

has such an inadequate poker face, she had to resort to bringing in this other person. Whereas I could lead on having this girlfriend and answering truthfully or with the few lies that I had to give, I could say them with a poker face so that people actually believed me. So I disagree that Saar is adept at lying. But, Your Honor, that was just because people were more inclined to ask me questions and ask a greater number of questions. They were more interested in my prospective boyfriend than Ben's prospective girlfriend. So I don't think that's a fair metric. Why do you think that is? So you're defending how good a liar you are

in front of your boyfriend? Yes. Well, she's saying that she thinks she's more interesting than me. No, I'm just saying that you can't, that I think it's unfair to say that I'm not an adept liar. I think I was sufficiently adept.

It was that there was more interest in what I had to say at the time than what you were saying. Do you ever do any work at this office, or is this all just kind of like pranks upon pranks upon pranks? Because I had all these questions laid out as to whether or not you guys were colleagues, whether there was a seniority issue here, whether one of you could fire the other one. But none of that really is going to affect your office life at all, is it? I mean, no one cares about that. You're 24 years old, right? There are no professional ramifications in your office if you guys were to reveal that you were going out, are there? No. In fact, I'd like to point to one of the exhibits that I submitted to the court. Very well. If you take a look at Exhibit C, I've submitted a photograph of two analysts within our firm who used to be publicly dating before one of them moved on to business school.

I see. So there is a precedent in your office of two analysts in your firm publicly dating and then going on to business school. And this is Alex and Lakshmi dancing. That's true. Which is the name of my new band. Let's see. We also have some pictures here. Exhibit A, everyone at the office is very close. We have four photos of dudes in Dockers and button-up shirts doing the chicken dance. Is that correct?

That's from the Arrested Development. Oh, okay. Very good. And then is that a scene from Arrested Development? You're imitating a scene from Arrested Development? Yeah, the latter. Right. Okay.

Gotcha. Because your office is a television show. Exhibit B, we all go on trips together. Here is a group of analysts on a weekend trip to Big Sur, California. Are you in this photo, either of you? I'm in the back row all the way to the right with the yellow shirt on. Okay, I see you there. You got your sunglasses and your shirt collar.

Is that right? That's correct. Okay. And then we've got Sarah in the front row. And let's see. Exhibit D, other employees and relationships are public. Okay, so Sam and Reagan or Regan? Reagan. Reagan.

Reagan. And they are dressed up as each other at the company Halloween party. Sure. Sure. And the reason I submitted this piece of evidence is that I think Sarah's best point to keeping this secret is the fact that we can have a lot of fun with this relationship in the office. But my argument is that it can also be a lot of fun even if we're public. For instance, Sam and Reagan had a phenomenal award-winning costume at our recent Halloween party where they dressed up as each other. You guys have fun in this office, don't you? A fair amount, yes.

Yeah. And is that what it is to be a consultant? Because I'd like to do this. I'd like to do this. I'd like to be young and just going out and on vacations and dressing up as each other and chicken dancing and having sex with one another and occasional Wednesdays on a Wednesday. You know what I mean? Like this is making me feel really old. Ben, how does it make you feel that that Sarah is treating your relationship like a big prank? Well, I think to some extent it is a lot of fun and I see her point. But at the same time, I think that we've reached diminishing marginal returns. And at this point, we can have even more fun if we go public. You didn't have to use economic consultancy language to describe your relationship, did you? Does that come naturally to you? Since I've been hanging out with Sara more, it has been.

I see. Sara, if not now, when would you announce this relationship to the office? When would be an appropriate time for you to get for you that you think would be professionally appropriate and or the most hilarious reveal of all time? I mean, I'm not really sure. I think I mean, the opportunity will present itself. But I would argue that we haven't hit diminishing marginal returns and that, you know, like economies of scale that we could keep going for a very long time and really build this up for a while. Okay. I mean, I don't think it's impinged upon our ability to partake in activities with our friends or, or like enjoy other like festivities. I think we can do all of the same things. We just don't like, we don't act necessarily, we don't act like a couple when we do things. Okay. You two sexy quants. Do you have a spreadsheet where you can, or a graph where you can show me when in the future the,

the returns are going to diminish? Funny that you mentioned it actually. When Ben and I were discussing going out for the first time, I made a deck for him, like a, like a slideshow presentation with charts and stuff about our perspective levels of happiness. Really? Mm-hmm. Well, why didn't you send that in as evidence?

I didn't think it was particularly relevant to the point of whether or not we should go public. But it was just an example of quanti-flirting. So tell me what was on the deck. So the three-part deck, first of which was outlining the issue at hand to stakeholders and the issue of whether or not the date should date. And then I outlined what the recommendation was, which was that they engage in a contract that was mutually beneficial. And the data that I had to support that was I had some charts showing increasing happiness over time, exponentially increasing happiness over time. Then I explained in another part that the way in which we could capitalize on the perspective gain was through a series of dates.

And I outlined a couple possibilities. possibilities. And then the last part of the deck was asking for, I was basically saying that our next steps that we should pick a date, do it and then iterate. Hey, Scott, based on what you've Scott, based on what you just heard, would you like to revise your opinion of who the catch is in this relationship? Yeah, no, not at all. Sorry, is totally the catch. Did you just end that by saying and then iterate? Yeah, that's the greatest euphemism I've ever heard for anything. That makes me so happy. That's so much better than Wednesdays for three-way. Well, I absolutely understand why you would like to take this public and move forward, Ben, to a romantic IPO as soon as possible. But, Sarah, if I were to rule in your favor,

how long would you want me to order Ben to wait? Frankly, the ideal order would just give me the agency to decide when I want it to go public. So if your order was at bench due, basically, or should agree to whatever I think is right. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that, honestly. Sara, on your deck, beyond the iteration, when you go public, if that's a benchmark in the relationship,

does the happiness quotient go up for you? Is it a sharp increase, or does it go down? No, it continues to increase over time. So why not go for that now rather than wait for it? Because I think the rate of increase is higher right now. And then the rate of increase will still be positive, but it'll slow after we go public. But Your Honor, I do have a perspective idea of how we could go public. And I Honor, I do have a perspective idea of how we could go public, and I'd love to get your opinion on it.

All right, I will allow it. We could at some point share this podcast. That would be one way, I suppose. I think that, and I imagine it would, I mean, rather, like I said, I'd rather not go public, but if we had to, I think that would be an acceptable way of doing it. It would maintain the, I think, I'd rather not go public. But if we had to, I think that would be an acceptable way of doing it.

It would maintain the, I think, the flavor of good humor. I understand what you're doing. I appreciate what you're trying to do here, which is to use this podcast as a way of announcing your love to your office mates in the most hilarious way possible. And you're trying to recruit me into one of your weird dress-up games and company outings. But I don't think that that's actually flattering to the court. I think that makes the court very circumspect about how it's going to rule, I'm afraid. Ben, what would you like me to order? Immediate release of company records? I think that would be appropriate. You want to release the tax records immediately? That would be great.

Or a birth certificate, maybe. Okay. I'm going to go back to my cubicle chamber and run the numbers and look at some spreadsheets, and I will make my decision. I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman leaves the court. And let me ask Ben and Sarah, do you ever get together in the office? Does anything ever happen behind closed cubicles?

Absolutely not. During office hours? Absolutely not. Sarah, do you agree with that? I agree with Ben. And would you ever want that to happen? Is that a fantasy? I think that's inappropriate. Yeah, I think that would be too telling. Oh, that's right. This is going to be played for the whole office.

Can we assume by the fact that everyone will be listening to this at the office that perhaps you're lying right now and you two have really made a mess of things and cleaned it up with some whiteout? Unfortunately, the only euphemisms we respond to are of an economic nature. Well, I just wanted to say that we did take an oath and that there's nothing that we're saying that's false. We're not trying to misrepresent anything. We're just trying to get an honest opinion from the honest facts of the case. Honorable.

All right, well, everyone please rise as Judge John Hodgman is reentering the court. I think there's something that was said just recently in this case. It was very telling that when I was listening through my cubicle, when I was poking my head over the cubicle so I could listen to you guys while Scott Adsit Gasbalov was interrogating you, he said, have you ever engaged in romantic, intimate activity in the office? And Ben immediately said, that would be inappropriate.

And Sara said, that would be telling. I was like, I think you mean that would tip your hand, that it would reveal the secret that you are keeping, that you are having a special man and woman friendship in the office. a special man and woman friendship in the office. And that's the thing that really is so unnerving about this, was that sometimes there are cases that just reveal a huge generational gap to me, in the sense that when I think about an office romance,

I flash back to the 90s when I was working in an office when the whole issue was around Michael Crichton novels and the inappropriate use of power within the office and sexual hierarchies within the office and we're all very serious. Now you guys are in a world where all you're doing is dressing up as each other all the time, making a ton of money, using a lot of weird language that I don't understand and economic euphemisms, iterating right, left, and center, and it's all a big game to you. And I kind of admire where you guys are coming from emotionally on this.

But then there's another part of me which feels that I've never seen such a terrible depiction of callous youth since A Clockwork Orange, which, by the way, is a movie that you can see on an old-timey movie projector sometime. You are going to be judged by an old, old man. And old men do not like to be played with in the sense that while I agree, Ben, that you did take an oath to tell the truth, I do have a power that I had not appreciated when I started this podcast, which is that when it is podcast, the nature of your relationship will effectively be made public no matter what I rule. And Sarah, I was with you all along with regard to your PowerPoint presentation about the diminishing returns of your

relationship or the increasing happiness levels of your relationship. And I began to be swayed over to your side of keeping this game going as long as possible for your own amusement and your lack of caring for what would happen once all of your so-called friends in the office realized you had abused their trust for however long you chose to do it. But I cannot grant you the option to extend this as long as you want without regard to what Ben wants. Because even though you are 24 years old, there are human feelings involved in this situation. And even though Ben is a callous fellow, you're both decent young people, and I think his feelings deserve to be respected. Then you really lost me, I have to say, Sara, when you started suggesting that maybe the

right way to reveal your office romance to your office is by making this podcast public, in fact, implicating me in one of your crazy chicken dance happy hours. And that is something up with which I will not put. I am not your plaything. I am not part of your sarcastic game on the world. This is an internet court of justice for Cthulhu's sake, right? I guess Bailiff Scott adds it. Aye, aye, sir. That's exactly so. And therefore, I have come to a different sort of ruling. I will not be, And therefore, I have come to a different sort of ruling. I will not play your reindeer games, Sarah, no matter how many incredible multimedia presentations you make.

And therefore, I say this. You can let this go on as long as you want, you two. Keep it a secret. But this podcast will not be aired until I have word from both of you that your romance is made public. Only then, and I will need proof, I will need proof from your office mates, Reagan and Sam and Lakshmi and, was it Lakshmi? Alex, all the crazy kids down at the, at the goofball office where you work need to sign off on their affidavit of knowledge that you two are man,

friend, woman, friend. And then, and only then will I allow this podcast to go forward. Now who's playing the game? Eh, my droogies? This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. And there it is. Let me ask the two litigants, how do you feel about the verdict today? Sara. Well, I respect the judge's wishes. I'm saddened that he thought that this

was part of some grand ploy. But I think it's a wise ruling. I think you must admit you are a master manipulator, and he is right in thinking that maybe he is being had. I can understand the circumstances under which he would think that um but truly my my comment earlier was only that if we were to have to go public i would hope to do it in an amusing funny way and i will say that

the judge has set that up how did you do that you. Oh, I can't believe you tricked me. Of course you got me again. My hat is off to you. Ben, let me ask you how it feels to simply be a means by which John Hodgman feels older. Well, let me just say thank you to the judge. I appreciate what he's done. Let me just say thank you to the judge. I appreciate what he's done. I think he's put the pressure on Sarah to get this affidavit signed. And I think Sarah's desire for attention in the office will overcome her reluctance with which she wants to withhold this information. So thank you, Justice John Hodgman.

I look forward to getting this affidavit signed and delivered such that we can make this podcast public. I think we need a picture of you guys in the office, surrounded by your office mates, making out. making out. And that will conclude today's case of coming out of the supply closet. I want to thank you both, Ben and Sarah, for your time and your concerns. Thank you, Scott. Thank you. Thank you very much, guys. Good luck to you. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Judge? Hi, Scott. Oh, I'm sorry. Why don't you finish doing that? It's just someone ate my Greek yogurt and someone moved my cheese, which is a reference that makes me realize how old I am. And then I was thinking I feel like Michael Douglas in the game, and now I feel even older. It's been a bad day. It's been a bad day.

It's been a bad day. It's been an interesting day. But at least I'm getting my flagstones cut. Well, maybe this will make you feel younger. We have some docket clearing to do. I hope you can get it done now. Do we have time? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All right, well, here's a case here. Jessica writes, my best friend and I made an agreement. He promised to stop smoking cigarettes if I promised to stop drinking soda. The problem is that we didn't agree on the definition of soda up front. Now that we're hashing this out, it seems as though there's a spectrum of sugary drinks that may or may not count as soda. Does flavored water count as soda? Sparkling fruit juice? Very low calorie or low sugar soda?

I'm not even following this. Hang on. No, I think I understand where this is going. Let's keep going. Alright. I think she means diet soda. By low sugar soda, that's what she means. Diet soda. Very low calorie or low sugar soda? Diet soda.

Is there an established set of criteria I can use to assess if a drink is a soda? We do agree that soda has to be carbonated. That's a good place to start. Please mediate this argument so that both of us can uphold our agreement and make more healthful choices. agreement and make more healthful choices. Well, first of all, you're having an agreement in which one person gives up cigarettes in return for the other person giving up soda is, I think, the definition of asymmetrical warfare. I would never have agreed to that at all.

Being a former smoker myself, there is no equivalency between those two habits, though I agree that drinking soda is gross, and you're not nine years old anymore, so stop it. Unless you're a nine-year-old, in which case, go on. Enjoy. And no one has established or requested a definition of smoking here in this situation either. Well, smoking cigarettes, I think, is understood to be smoking cigarettes of marijuana. It is a marijuana thing? I don't know. I don't think so. I think smoking cigarettes is pretty clear.

Apparently it's not. I've said it before and I will say it again. Do not make high stakes agreements with your friends, whether it is agreeing to quit smoking or as high stakes as betting that your friend cannot get you to say your own name backwards until you really lay out the specifics and hammer it out ahead of time. Because there are too many loopholes. If you stop drinking the classic sodas, your Pepsis, your Cokes, your Moxies, your Cheerwines, and then start drinking

tons of orange juice with seltzer water in it, that's not so much different. You get a little less scurvy with that, but it's still the same, you know what I mean? And meanwhile, your friend can be out there smoking a hookah, because he agreed to stop smoking cigarettes. So get this stuff in writing first. Look through all the loopholes. And in the meantime, I can only interpret this in the commonsensical way. You both agreed to give up the thing

that you didn't want to do anymore and that you did too much. So, smoking cigarettes is clear. Stop smoking cigarettes. In terms of soda, I don't care what it is you drink. You obviously had a problem drinking a particular kind of thing. Probably Coke.

If that's what you had a problem with, stop doing that. If it's not that, Coke, by the problem with, stop doing that. It's not that. Coke, by the way, is a generic term for all soda if you live in Atlanta. That's what I'm making reference to. You understand that, Scott? I get it, sir. I could have easily said pop or tonic. You know what I mean? You ever say soda pop?

No. I'm not a fool. I believe in regionalisms of all kind but not redundant ones if you were drinking Diet Coke all day long definitely stop that because I like Diet Coke from time to time but that's too much it's gross

and terrible for you what is aspartame in there it's got that aspartame it's got a lot of chemicals in it you know what I mean it tastes like chemicals you should drink water you should drink water. You should drink water, and you should drink carbonated water, and occasionally gin, and then hold it there, okay?

You're not a child anymore. Don't drink too much juice. Don't drink too much sody pop. Don't drink too much of that stuff. Be a grown-up about your hydration, okay? You ever called it gin liquor? Do I? No, I've never call it gin liquor? Do I? Uh, no.

I've never called it gin liquor. Where is that? Where have you heard that? I haven't. I thought I was trying to start something. All right. Well, it starts right here on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. From now on, drink gin liquor responsibly.

Water, carbonated water, lightly flavored carbonated waters. And for your friend, don't smoke cigarettes and don't smoke a hookah because you don't want to be a jerk next question we have another one here from vonish and vonish writes my girlfriend rebecca and i have a long distance relationship and often only see each other on weekends i would like an order that we spend some of that time watching nfl football i believe it is important for both parties in a relationship to share each other's passions. My girlfriend is a huge TV and movie buff, and we spend many

hours watching her favorite programs and movies. My favorite activity on a Sunday is watching football. I've offered to explain the game and some of the players' backstories. Football watching would be beneficial to her, as she is one going into the male-dominated profession of law in a major city, and two, she's from the D.C. area, which is finally experiencing some hope in football with Robert Griffin III.

I have offered to explain all of this to her as well. Another redundancy, by the way. My girlfriend purports to love fall. Well, Judge John Hodgman, I ask you, what can be more fall than watching football on a chilly Sunday afternoon? I appreciate your assistance on this matter. I don't know how Vonish could have possibly gotten this email address. Did you not meet him at a tailgate party?

That's true. I forgot. I forgot. We did meet at the Yale-Harvard game. And you both won. That's true. I don't know who Robert Griffin III is, and I never will. And I don't know how Vonnish could have possibly thought that I would rule on this case in his favor,

knowing anything about me or the one thing about me, which is I neither care for nor understand football. Let me explain football to you. Oh, here we go. My parents have season tickets to the Bears game in Chicago, and they would take me every week as a child, and I would sit in the second row on the 48 yard line prime spot and

I would proceed to get frostbite on my toes and my lips and my eyeballs for four hours straight I would sit there waiting for the game to be over because it was very uncomfortable to sit there and if I ever had any love of football it vanished like the air coming out of my lungs into smoke. Because I, at this point, only associate football with discomfort. I appreciate that your explanation of football to me involved explaining how much you dislike football. Because that is not usually what happens when people try to explain football to me. Look, love what you love. I can appreciate that you love football.

You ask me what is more fall than watching football on a chilly Sunday afternoon. Anything. Anything is more fall. All right, let me ask. Why don't we approach this a different way, though? He has his passions. You have yours. How would you tell him to, if his passion was watching Doctor Who every Sunday,

how would you have him approach that problem? Yeah, if your passion is watching Doctor Who every Sunday, and you only see your girlfriend on Sundays, don't watch Doctor Who. That's how far I would go. That's the whole point. Look, you can't make people love what you love. And I'll tell you something right now. No one has ever made me fall in love with them by explaining football to me. I've only ever, I've only ever fallen into bitter resentment that way. And you can love football a lot. And she can love her movies a lot. But honestly, if you're only seeing each other on weekends, go do something that you both love together.

Instead of trying to force... Don't even watch television, for heaven's sakes. You know there's something else you can do. I dare say. Cut some flagstones, if you know what I mean. So no, you can't compel someone to watch football. Even if I felt... Even if you were talking about Dr. Who, I would

say the same thing. Think of it this way, Vanish. What if Scott Adsit were right? What if you loved Dr. Who? And for you, it was a, it was a tradition to watch Dr. Who on, on a, on a crisp autumn afternoon. And you were writing in to me saying, should, shouldn't I offer to explain to my girlfriend the particular wardrobes and personalities of all 11 Doctors Who? Wouldn't that make her like it?

Just imagine yourself saying that and imagine yourself being as unkissable in that moment as you would be. Don't do it. Don't force it. Just be with your girlfriend. Yeah, just pretend to like whatever garbage she's interested in. No, you would be. Don't do it. Don't force it. Just be with your girlfriend. Yeah, just pretend to like whatever garbage she isn't interested in. No, no, no. Don't do that either.

I think you guys should turn off the TV and take a walk around and look at some foliage and do other fall things. Go on a turkey hunt or whatever. Shared experience. Go on a hayride. Stop watching so much TV,

everybody. Yeah, get on that computer and start listening. Yeah, why don't you share some of your favorite podcasts? Well, thank you, Judge. I think you've answered his question there.

I just yelled at that time. I just yelled. It's fine, though. Thank you very much, guest bailiff Scott Adsit. I have been your guest bailiff, Scott Adsit. Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. What a pleasure. Scott Adsit, everybody. And the court may sit back down. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show

and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com.

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