Judge John Hodgman - Command Quit

Episode Date: February 5, 2014

Has Quin gone overboard when it comes to playing video games?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, command quit. John files suit against his teenage son, Quinn. While he admits that Quinn is generally a well-rounded kid, he worries about the amount of time he spends playing video games. Quinn says he's not going overboard, so what's the problem? Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. What? What? Oh. Oh, hey. Okay, I'm sorry I shut your pie hole, okay?

It's just, I get so mad and I can't control things and, you know, shit just falls on top of me. My life sucks right now and I don't know what to do except I want to say I love you and hug it out. All that wimpy. It's just, well, I'd say gay, but I have some friends that are gay. So that's not cool anymore. And the ones that I don't really like, it's not because they're gay. So lame. All right. You're just a lame and angry psycho. Sometimes you do bad shit in things. I don't know if I love you, and I'm pretty sure I hate you a little bit, but I'm just so fucking upset that we can't even see each other. You're just a drunk, lame judge.

You know what? That might just be the nicest thing that anybody's ever said to me. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he spends over 16 hours a day on average playing Dig Dug. I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Love that Dig Dug. I'm actually, Jesse, a Mr. Do man myself.

Dig Dug was never my jam. Mr. Do. The digging clown. What is happening? What happens in Dig Dug? I mean, I know he's digging because i remember that from having dig dug on my computer and he gets it dug is it a digger is the main character a supposed to be a digger that's the point it's confusing it's not like a clown that

is digging tunnels in the earth which is something you hear and see about all the time you're in see about see and hear about all the time the player and see about. See and hear about all the time. The player's character is Dig Dug, dressed in white and blue and able to dig tunnels through destructible environments. Dig Dug is killed if he's caught by either a puka or a figar, burned by a figar's fire, or crushed by a rock. or crushed by a rock this welcome to our new podcast two white guys talking about video games just like every other podcast we have a legit child here normally i will not hear a case if the person is under 18 unless it is their father trying to get them to talk to Eugene Merman, or it is a dad yelling at his son about video game consumption. John and Quinn, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you name the piece of culture I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom

when Jesse and I did our little dramatic reading? John, I know you cannot. No, I cannot. It sounded like a teen angst film of some sort. It is a teen angst film of some sort, but Quinn, can you name it? Well, since you said my dad's not going to it it must be something recent but i'm not a big teen angst film guy i'm just gonna guess wait a minute i think that may have been missed that may have been misleading it is a piece of teen angst culture and it is also incredibly violent

and misogynist. Does that help you? Can I guess? Is it Justin Bieber, Never Say Never? It's actually Justin Bieber, Never Say Never game for Android phones. What is your guess, though, Quinn? This is being handed to you on an incredibly violent, popular and misogynistic platter. Well,

the misogynistic is what threw me. Cause I was going to guess Juno, but I don't think that's very misogynistic at all. You are correct. Am I really? No, no. First of all,

it's not, I was trying to steer you away. It's not actually a film. Now can you guess? It's not a film. What are we talking about today? Video games. Video games.

So what would be a piece of culture that I might want to paraphrase as I entered the courtroom? Video falconry? You're too nice a kid to have played the monstrously popular, and arguably monstrous, but still enticing, game known as Grand Theft Auto V. Oh, I was going to guess it. Were you going to, John? Yes.

You were not. Why didn't you guess it then? I slipped up. Uh-huh. I specifically was quoting the dialogue in the cutscene between father and son, Jimmy DeSanta and Michael DeSanta, one of the three protagonists, you can call them that, of Grand Theft Auto 5, as they have a final confrontation in the cutscene and the mission called Reuniting the Family. It's sort of towards the end of the game,

I gather. Jimmy, who plays a lot of video games and is estranged from his father because his father is away a lot of the time because he is a, a formerly a psychotic killer. Now, John, what do you do for a living? I plan projects.

That sounds a little cagey. Are you planning murder projects well uh well no not really although like this one is a train that goes through a university so i don't know that could be trouble you're planning you're planning to drive a train through a university? Are you a supervillain of some kind? No, it looks cool. Hear me well, Yale University. Transfer $1 million to my bank account or I will reroute the Acela and it will very slowly move through your campus

unless it is delayed. Okay, you're a project planner, so you are not a psychotic killer. So that is where the parallel between Grand Theft Auto V and your family life breaks down. But there is a dispute between father and son. And Quinn, much like Jimmy DeSanta, is playing a lot of video games all the time.

John, you bring this case to court. What's the problem with Quinn's playing video games? Well, since I sent it in, my thoughts have evolved. And I think his quantity might be average for the U.S. since I looked into it a little bit. But it's a trend, and it's kind of a loss of – it's an opportunity cost to do other things. He used to be a bit of a renaissance man with some music, some athletics, this and that. And it seems to have all been boiling down into this one activity in a high percentage.

And I just would like to see more well-rounded number of activity. You would like to see Quinn's well-rounded uh number of activities you would like to see quinn's well roundedness on par with american average well-roundedness well no it doesn't be american average uh just what's good for him that's all all right you know ask any european and they will tell you about how well-rounded Americans are. They say it's the diet. Quinn, how much video games do you, how many, how much video gaming do you do in a week? I mean, it's hard to say depending on, you know, the weekends are more time than the weekdays, but in a week,

maybe like 20 hours, on the weekends or more time in the weekdays, but in a week, maybe like 20 hours, like two hours a day or something, a little more on the weekends, maybe. Okay, and so most of your gaming is on the weekends? Yes. I'd say so. So on a Saturday,

what time do you wake up on Saturday? You're 17 years old, right? Yes. So you wake up at about 4 p.m.? Not usually. Maybe around like 9 or 10. Okay. You wake up at 9 or 10?

Yes. And what do you do? What's the first thing you do? Wake up at 9 or 10, maybe take take a shower eat some apple cinnamon cheerios um maybe do one or two jobs nothing too big just like shoveling the driveway if it's covered with snow or something like that where do you live and that uh we live in the chicagoland area oh right that's that's vague yes good um and that And that's maybe at about 10. And from like 11.30 till about 2 or 3, I'll play games with my friends. And then about 3, we'll go to each other's houses or the movies or do something.

Come home maybe like 10 or 11 and play more games with each other until 1-ish. And that's the average Saturday. I would say one ish in the morning. Yes. All right. Now who are these friends? Actually, you know what friends I'm going to,

I'm going to hang, I'm going to ask you to hang on there for a second, John. Okay. John. Yes. Yes. Your honor.

Does that sound accurate so far? Uh, what did that add up to about? I got distracted in the middle of it. It seemed that there was a block of a couple of hours in the middle of the day, and then he and his friends would go out to a movie, go to the malt shop, go cruise around on their Vespa scooters for a while and then they would come home and play video games for like from from 10 or 11 until one in the morning on a saturday on a saturday night into sunday morning but there were no that's what that's what he said to me were there any glaring errors were there any like when he said

that he shoveled the walk and that sort of like did some chores was he was he buttering this court up with with with tales of conscientiousness or is that something that he actually does no that's feasible um you know i the the majority of the time they'd be doing gaming they do occasionally see movies and i i generally have found with gaming they like to do it from their own uh homes because then they all have their own uh computer to be working from oh so he doesn't get together as often as he used to but that doesn't mean he isn't socializing i realize that gaming is now also a social route. So, so Quinn, do you play,

do you play games on a PC or on a console? I am on a PC. All right. And it is a PC. It's not a Mac. Yeah. You know, I,

I, yeah, I got, I got, I, I can tell, I can tell you're dropping little hints that you're familiar with my work with your video falconry.

And let me just say, it's working. I gotcha. Right? Flattery accepted. And I find in your favor. Goodbye. No. So what, you're playing a PC game.

What PC game are you playing? The two I generally play are Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2. Okay. And Team Fortress, that's one I've heard of. What is that one? It is a cartoon-style shooter, I would say. First-person shooter in FPS? Yeah.

Yeah, first-person shooter. And it's a team-based thing where you guys go around and play Capture the Flag and have fun murdering each other and ponying each other? and play capture the flag and, and have fun murdering each other and pony. Yeah. But it's, it's a lot more low key than Dota two, which is, uh,

really team-based and less, uh, laid back. I would say. Dodo two, do, do, do,

do two. It's a female Dodo, Dodo, Dodo two. I mean, Dota, D O T A Dota. Yes.

A multiplayer online battle arena video game. And this is per Wikipedia. Have you ever heard any people call it Wikipedia? Do you hear that, Jesse, still? Wikipedia? Wikipedia? Yeah. I was speaking to...

I've had some conversations with some high level nerds. I mean, like, name recognized nerds. And I've heard that from time to time. Wikipedia. I think that wiki is the original pronunciation. Have you heard that, Quinn? I've not heard that. But do you say nuclear or nuclear? Do you say nuclear or nuclear? Well, no, I say nuclear because that's the correct way to say it. That's, it's not even the same conversation. It's like there's a generation gap between us. Of course you say nuclear. How do you, what do you say?

What do you say? I say nuclear, but maybe it's just the Chicago area that say, they say nuclear as if there's a why. No, no. say nuclear as if there's a why no no and i the not only did you pronounce it wrongly but you pronounced it even more wrong than i've ever heard it pronounced before you added like extra syllables in the nuclear or something like that nuclear that's what they say i'm not lying they don't this is uh youth is wasted on the end you You're not going to bait me into having this. This is settled science. This is settled nuclear science. This is one of the main things that pronunciation pedants get upset about is people saying nuclear.

This is old. This is not. These are the issues of our generation, Mr. Kajman. No, they're not. It's settled. It's all done. We've already discussed all of this. these are the issues of our generation Mr. Cashman, I heard nothing it's all done, we've already discussed all of this, look something up before you bring it, I'm talking about

something unusual here Wikipedia versus Wikipedia both are neologisms to begin with, they're relatively recent words, this nuclear nuclear thing, it's not even a debate. This complaint

goes back to George W. Bush when you weren't even born. 17 years old. Why am I having a conversation? John, are you still here, Dad? I think my son is in contempt

of court. I find in your favor john that's jesse thorpe has mentioned on many episodes that you need to leave the humor what game are you guys what what game are you two playing now you're you're you're you're referencing uh jesse thorpe that's tom sharpling's name for Jesse Thorne, who is the bailiff in this court. Are you a best show listener, sir? I'm breaking under the pressure, sir.

What? Are you guys both gaslighting me? Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to go up there and I'm going to ask him whether you pronounce it nuclear or nuclear-lular. And then make it out like that's something that's never been asked before, and then I'm going to drop a bunch of... Then you pronounce it nuclear or nuclear and then make it out like that's something that's never been asked before and then i'm gonna drop a bunch of then you dad or man who's pretending to be my dad that i met online via my weird pc game is gonna be dropping best show

references and we're just gonna we're gonna blow up his head i think you said nuke-uvular? Juveniler. Oh, boy. Dota 2, according to Wikipedia, is a multiplayer online battle arena video game and standalone sequel to Defense of the Ancients mod developed by Valve Corporation. It would be interesting to hear what Gabe Newell, how he pronounces Wikipedia. But that's another story.

Okay. Which ancients are you defending? That's what I want to know. Both of them. Or whichever one your place down, I guess. Wait, both ancients? No, no, no. It's like basketball.

The referee says, okay, you're on this side. Okay, I'm defending that one. I'm defending that hoop. So it's ancient hoops. Is this like an Aztec ball game? No, I'm just, the referee tells you which side you got to defend.

Then you defend that side. You don't ask questions. And you're on T and you're on teams with your friends, right? Yes. And these are friends who are also playing on networked, networked PCs and other areas of Chicagoland. Are these your friends from school

or weirdos that you met online? The majority of the time I play with friends from school, but sometimes there are weirdos online in this particular game. Okay. And so when you say you hang around, you play video games with your friends, do you mean your friends come over

or you guys all plug in together and look at your screens in your respective locations? What I'm saying, you know, after I do the jobs and from 11.30 to like 2-ish or whatever, that is at our houses. But from 3 to 11, that is out with each other in real life. From 3 to 11, you're out in meat space, yucking it up with your pals. Now, John, who are these friends of Quinn's?

What are their names? Sam, Thomas, others. But mainly Sam and Thomas. I want to give them a thrill by giving them a dad name check on their favorite podcast. And I also just wanted to get

a sense. So Sam and Thomas, are these your friends, Quinn? Are these good kids or bad kids? They're good kids. They're your age? They're in your class? Yep. Which one of the three of you, who's the baddest kid? Probably Thomas.

Yeah. I'd have to say. I think my dad would agree. Thomas is no good. Three to 11, you guys are going to see movies is that what's going on well not in particular just a variety whatever there is available just at each other's houses going outside whatever there is to do so your dad is concerned because he feels that you used to have a wider repertoire of activities and that now you are mainly playing video games. Is that true? What activities have you given up in the past year?

I do not think my dad has to worry about my reduction as a Renaissance man. I guess I did wrestling last year for freshman and sophomore year. I was in wrestling and in lacrosse. So two seasons out of the three you're in school or whatever this year, all I haven't done is wrestling, but that has nothing to do with, I wanted to increase the amount of video games I wanted to play. nothing to do with I wanted to increase the amount of video games I wanted to play. Now, John, when you see your son playing these video games instead of lacrosse, that must make you feel great. I mean, at least he's not playing lacrosse, right?

It isn't just the sports. I'm not necessarily a sports nut, Dad. I just like to see a a healthy diverse range of activities he's also a singer in a band and he used to write songs and i i've noticed that i think his curtailed quite a bit his song his song his 17 year old songwriting output is not keeping up with the american average it is it's just uh i'd just like to see a healthy mix that's all your son sounds like a reasonable guy he's got some friends who do not seem like monsters right except for thomas right uh he he does his chores

right he's not sleeping till one in the afternoon. He's spending his weekend nights at home, right? He's not going out all night in Chicago doing that swing dancing that that's all the rage I hear among kids. And, uh, and moreover, he dropped wrestling, but he's still doing the, the, the, the loathsome sport of lacrosse. He sounds pretty Renaissance man to me. What am I missing here, John? It's just when you're around on the weekend and you walk by him on Saturday and you walk by him on Sunday,

it seems like the entire time he's on the computer and that doesn't seem healthy, even though it might be average for the U.S. And, you know, when I say entire time, you know, that's eight hours on Saturday, eight hours on Sunday, and it's weekend after weekend. Like, if he did that for a month or something, and then he went on to do something else, that would be fine. I don't necessarily believe in, like, I would find it hard to do rationing myself. It's just, you know,

I thought it would pass over, you know, a month or something, but it seems to be getting worse. It seems to be a trend. And as was shown in episode 127, angry birds, it can be tough to beat the dopamine that drag drags you in oh yeah i mean the video

video games uh are are profoundly addictive but angry birds is a different game to dota 2 i think you would agree sir i thought we weren't supposed to say names due to uh buzz marketing reasons i i i just have to you know i appreciate the fact that you both i that you both listen so closely to the podcast but every now and then conversation has to get in the way of my arcane weird rules but the fact that quinn is familiar with arcane weird rules and particularly with george plimpton's video falconry which is a pretty deep cut in the in the judge john hodgman reference game to me suggests that this that this is a child who who who if anything is um is too good who maybe should be going out at night in chicago and um and you know i don't know what they do what they do in chicago comet improv comedy

you know what i mean go going out to some of those improv comedy saloons and and and injecting some of that public radio into his veins rough stuff like thomas does but let me you mentioned that this goes back a month. A month? This trend is like a month ago. Did this start a month ago, Quinn? Oh, no. It started well before a month ago. It started, I think, over the summer. I think that's when I heavily noticed it because every day was like a weekend in the summer.

So then instead of like, say, an hour and a half on a weekday, which is reasonable, it's eight hours, eight hours, eight hours, one after another. And so that's when I really noticed it. And then it continued into the school year. You know, on the Internet, they say, you know, they only judge it by if it affects schoolwork or making kids hostile. I don't care about it. I don't think either of those are an issue here, but it's just not right. Are Quinn's grades okay? Yeah, but I think that he could do video games excessively

and still get good grades. I don't... That doesn't mean he shouldn't be well-rounded. I'm actually more sympathetic to you than I sound. So you don't have to be as defensive as you are being. His grades are okay. Obviously, he has not murdered anyone that you know of. Right?

He's not been turned into a rampaging murder zombie, which is what most video games turn kids into. But what it sounds like to me is you're saying that it is disturbing to see your son, who is a nice, clearly a nice kid who likes to make jokes and gaslight his elders in an amusing way with his nuclear versus nuclear japes, to see him hooked into a machine for hours upon hours of time, right? I mean, that is a disturbing thing for a parent to see. And as a parent, I see it even now among my kids

who are more likely to play those dopamine-pushing, you know, fast, casual, uh, uh, iOS games where you just, you just see the, the, the pale glow of addiction washing over their little faces and you feel like you're losing your child. Is that, would that be accurate to say? Yes. Uh, that would be an excellent characterization. Now, if Quinn were over with his friends, if Sam and some of his other friends, but not Thomas because he's a monster, but if some of the other ones were over at the house playing Donkey Kong Jr. on a ColecoVision

while eating some popcorn and carob chips and having some smoothies in a social type environment, would it be fair to say that that would be less disturbing to witness than watching him jack into the net like a neuromancer? Those are all cool terms that I just used. That would be slightly less disturbing. I'm sorry if I lost you there, Grandpa, with my early 90s cyberpunk terms.

Hey, I played quite a bit of Centipede in my day. What was your game, sir? Centipede, Asteroids. Uh-huh. A little bit of Joust. Dig Dug. No, never Dig Dug. That's the worst.

But Joust, that's the best. I knew a Dig Dug specialist. You had to specialize because it cost you a quarter for about two minutes. Those were the days, right? Those were the days. That was a self-rationing system. You are quite the project manager, sir.

It was a self-rationing system. And it was social, too. You would go out to the arcade, maybe play a little air hockey, maybe hang around the snack bar. You'd be a renaissance person.

Maybe a little pinball. Now you're just plugged in. Quinn, when you're plugged into the PC, do you ever stop to think of how it must look to a regular human who's outside of your inner world at that moment? Yes, I do. And that is why I think I should get a little bit more credit from my dad instead of criticism for the amount of time video games I'm playing. I get good grades. I've actually taken extra classes this year, even though I gave up wrestling. I've taken extra classes.

I've actually taken extra classes this year, even though I gave up wrestling. I've taken extra classes. I'm still in a band, and I still do sports. So there's really no reason why I should be criticized for playing these games if I have all these other things going on. And those are my words, that he is the only parent with a problem that has a problem with my video game. Oh, your mom doesn't care? No.

All right. What's the situation at Oh, your mom doesn't care? No. All right. What's the situation at home? Are mom and dad married? Yeah. Everyone lives together? Mm-hmm. You have any siblings? I have a brother who you might have heard romping through the upstairs.

And how old is he? He is 15. And does he play video games? He does, but he does not get the, he gets cut a little bit more slack than I do. How come that is unbeknownst to me? What would be your theory?

What would be your guess? Uh, he's younger. Maybe he is currently in wrestling right now. So that's really, that's he's, he's pretty busy at the moment. John, is that the thing?

If you wrestle, you get to do whatever you want in this house? No, there's a variance in their characters. And Quinn is 17. He has his own car. So I think there's a little bit more opportunity for him to engage in a bigger variety of activities. And it was the trend of that he used to put more effort into other activities in a more, it used to be a little bit more reasonable percentage of time into different things. And it seems to be changing and, you know, tracking that. It just seems that with computers, being that I've worked on them all my life, I know what it is like to get dragged in where you lose sight of the time.

And I'm hoping with some kind of verdict and judgment that in the judge's experience and wisdom, he can find some kind of way to mindfully get a system that can at least aid in controlling this. I don't make projects happen. I'm not a long-term project maker. I don't put trains through universities. You're the one who's collecting averages of American video game use and comparing it against your son and trying to come up with a good ratio of activities for him.

I can't make that spreadsheet. I just got to look at this and say, is this kid playing too many games? And what's going on here? Does your younger son play video games, John? He does play video games, but he tends to be a little bit more social, just difference in personality. But I'll give you more slack at 15 than I will at 17. And I think at 17, I think part of the problem as a parent, you have to start letting kids say it's your life. Do with it what you want but video games might not be the best thing and you kind of got to start letting go and hopefully make uh some of those choices it's a different all right then i

find then i find in favor then i find in favor of of of your son thank you very much for making his case for me do you do you follow what i'm saying i mean you basically just made the case for your son that he he's 17 so he should be allowed you should be allowed to do what he wants and you and you can give him guidance you don't need to take him to court well i i mean he did that in between stage where you're starting to let go but you're just instead of like saying you have to do this you're saying it's up to you but you probably should and you know I'm just

I needed help from a judge to um Can I interject? No, let your father finish his sentence Sorry about that I just thought it would be more credible coming from someone else that say

hey you might want to cut back on that a bit at that age when you got it's a very particularly sensitive part of life where you got your ACT coming up you got this and that you got to start making decisions that will affect the rest of your life

it's just it's just a period of time in your life. Quinn, you may interject now. Okay. What I would like to say is that is part of the problem is that he says, hey, you're playing too many video games. I come to him and then ask, okay, fine. How many should I play? Tell me so that every time you walk by, you're not harassing me with you're playing too many video games. And he says, well, you're 17.

You can decide for yourself. That's not helping anybody because I can't. It's a mixed message. Yes. Because he won't tell you precisely what the rules are. Yes. I cannot abide by his game. And so it's an endless trap of asking what i need to do

not getting it so continuing what i'm doing and then being harassed for it parents i know they you know what they you know what they you know what they don't understand what everything they just don't understand. You, um, you tell them fresh friends. Yeah. You,

what do you want to do with your life? Do you have an idea of a college that you might want to go to? I'm thinking like university of Illinois or university of Indiana, something like that. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Staying, staying,

staying close, close to home. And you do any programming on those computers? I've done a variety of things. For a little bit, I was getting into this animation software, making little video clips sort of, which is the game I mentioned, Team Fortress 2. It's a program that is revolved around that,

like using the assets and the models from that. So that's kind of how I got into that, is through playing that game. So, and what about dating? Are you doing any dating? Not recently, but I'd say'd say you have your heart broken recently no that's not a big part of your life right now no good but i wouldn't say that's caused by the video gaming i'm just i'm just trying to get the whole picture of

of your whole of your whole life i get you now you have your own car i do i got it in the summer what kind of car is it it is a 2003 pontiac grand am you better tell me that that pontiac grand am is space shuttle white is it it is black it is jet oh the opposite number the evil twin of the space shuttle white grand am exactly the doppelganger wow yeah doppelganger dropping doppelganger reference you ever read a book um last book you know it's mostly for school i would have to say the scarlet letter what was the last book you read not for school the disciplined investor what is it the name of it did a friend on the lacrosse team give you that no hey bro you ought to check this out

i got some sweet investments for you that sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me. Why were you reading The Disciplined Investor? Because I was interested in investing, sort of. Not really like serious money, but just, hey, this is something I can do in the future when I have money. Maybe I'll read about it. You're planning some long-term projects of your own. You have a job? Do you have a job?

I do not have a job. Over the summer, you did not have a job. No, I'm planning on getting one this summer. What kind of job are you going to get? Well, I was hoping to work at a hardware store or something, but judging from my friends who have jobs, I will probably be lucky to get a job at McDonald's. You're hoping to work at a hardware store? That's a unique ambition to hear from a teenager.

It's very specific. I'm not saying my dream job. And very old-fashioned in a way. You just want to do something with lengths of chain. So let's just break this down. You were hoping to get a job in the hardware store, but based on your friends, I gather they all also want to work in hardware stores,

and they've been having a hard time of it, and so you'll be lucky if you got to work at McDonald's? What's going on with the hardware? They quickly found out that it is very, very difficult to get a job as a 16-year-old. Right. Especially if you don't have a friendly hardware face. No.

You need to be an old bearded man who has a sincere voice and a wrench in his pocket. Yeah, but you... Gotta be a vela. You are so close to that right now, Quinn. The only thing that's missing is old and bearded. You've got a sincere voice and a wrench in your pocket. John, I don't know about your other son,

who may be an ingrate, but Quinn seems like an okay kid. Oh, he's an excellent kid. And actually judge, he's unusually smart, which is part of the frustration of it. It's like having a race horse and he prefers sitting around eating oats. Do you about being a racing? And do you travel a lot for your job uh i didn't used to but actually that is part of the reason why i was hoping to get this resolved because i'm returning

from a um multi-month trip where i was only home on the weekends there for a while okay and um but i was so you're out you were out on the road during the weekdays smashing trains through universities and then you would only come home on the weekends. Correct. But I have 17 years of visual observation to go on that I'm confident in my leanings.

Well, right. But you also had the benefit, I think, in the way that you don't notice when a good friend of yours gains a lot of weight, right? Because you're seeing them every day and slowly over the years, they gain a lot of weight. But then if you were in a situation where you went away for a while and came back, the change in behavior or the change in look

would be more easily observable by you. In other words, the creeping habit of extended video gaming sessions may not seem like a big change in Quinn's life to him, but to you, you can see it. Would that be fair? Yeah, I just, you know, in some ways, you know, the angry bird case made me look into it a little bit. And it is something that can creep up on you. And as I prepared for this case, I started to think I was actually creating a case against myself but in some ways if it makes our relationship better and that i get off the uh harassing him uh style of of expressing my

feelings and that might be a good thing well let's let's first of all first of all let's let, let's all be clear. None of us prepared for this case. You have a bombshell? I do have a bombshell in my favor, which is I did have Quinn and his brother watch The Third Man, and they did not enjoy The Third Man. Did you show them the wrong Third Man? Yeah, maybe you saw the sequel, The Fourth fourth man a lot of people make that mistake yeah okay well how many men were in it i'm glad that i'm glad that you that you also got in on the flattering game and i appreciate that you guys are loyal clearly loyal listeners

and that means a lot to me but it has no bearing on this case sir would you what what do you do of a saturday afternoon if i may ask john when you're at home after being on the road for a week how do you unwind what was the last book you read i would say the black Black Swan. The Black Swan, which deals with also investing, but it's more on statistics. Yeah, investment advice. So you generally pass your time plugging into a computer yourself and staring off into the middle distance for a while. Oh, definitely, but i'm seeking freedom someday you know when and i'm sure i would think you could relate in that there's only certain periods of time where you have that much

time on your hands and once you're in the rat race you can't go back and find that quantity of time. And that's why I wanted to make good use of it, because I know how fleeting that can be. In hanging around for 48 years, you see how successful people have used that time to actually be successful. And that's why, you know, like all the World Series of Poker winners and whatnot are very young, because they found that only people at that age can take risks or are better at taking risks. And it just seems to be a thing with successful people, that they make good use of that age in their life. The Beatles started at 17. You're upset because your son, Quinn, is not an international pop star?

No, that's not it at all. I just want him to be happy. Is it because you wasted your youth? See, I don't care to bring my youth into this because I'd rather just go with the science of what's best for kids at this age. I've seen on the many cases that people want them to do what they did, and I don't think that's necessary in this case. He said he couldn't find a job, though. I offered him a job doing what I did as a kid, which was a field worker, which was available, but I didn't necessarily want him to go down that route. Describe the position. In Illinois, any kid can go find a job detasseling corn, which is ripping the tops off corn.

Literally working in the fields. I thought you meant doing some field work in a scientific study or something like that. No. I think I've heard everything that I need to hear. I am going to cyberjack my consciousness back into the net wave and go back to my chambers, virtual reality chambers, and then I will come back and render my decision.

Please rise as Cyber Judge Hodgman exits the courtroom. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. as Cyber Judge Hodgman exits the courtroom. John, how are you feeling about your chances in this case? Well, I was... I don't think my chances are good, but it's all shades of gray. I was thinking that i was hoping that his wisdom could just uh dictate a system that would be good for both parties um because it's would be hard to go all one way or the other in this the what i was thinking might be a good sense is that I have to purchase him a Fitbit so that he could mindfully know on a monthly or three-month basis kind of just where his

activities have been going. That was the only thing that I could see solving it. Quinn, how are you feeling about your chances? You know, I didn't say much, but I feel I really didn't have to. My case was made for me, and for that I thank you, Dad. But I feel my chances are pretty good. Do the two of you guys ever do anything together? Yes. What do you do?

Just, like, go to medieval times? Yeah, actually. yes what do you do just like go to medieval times yeah actually not like alone but in groups of sons and dads uh we need to we do need to find uh more activities together i've been feeling bad that uh i've dropped the ball with that a little bit. What's a project that the two of you worked on together? Well, my dad has this invention. I'll give it some time right now. The CD Paw is a foam disc-like object with slits in it

to hold CDs. He had a video on Kickstarter about it, and I was an actor featured in one of the scenes, as well as helping with the production. Just the greatest buzz marketing in the history of our program. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about the outcome of this case when we come back in just a minute. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world. And you get to hear the sound.

It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear the sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs. They're made in, made in.

The Rohan duck. Made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made In has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need.

Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price.

Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware dot com. Please rise as Judge John Hodg re-enters the courtroom so the decision i've made immediately became clear this summer you are going to be a field hand quinn you are going to move out of your home and go live in a shack by the cornfields and live out the life of a John Steinbeck novel as an itinerant farm worker.

That would be so awesome if I could compel you to do that. What an experience it would be. Where would you live? In a rental apartment? Oh, I wish that I could force you out of the house into a life of adventure and drudgery and back-breaking pain that you could write about in a novel later on but i think that what i really want is for me to do that i want to do that i don't think that

that's what you want to do and so that's not a fair judgment to make. So I'm not going to. And here's the thing. I think that what's going on here is that you are playing what is, according to your own father, a fairly reasonable average amount of video game playing. amount of video game playing. And while it is correct that especially those casual games on portable electronics are dopamine triggers and highly addictive, the games that you are playing are kind of old school based on where we are in culture today i mean it's not that certainly a lot of kids are on xboxes and playstations and other

and network pcs playing three you know first person shooters and stuff. But this feels like something that kids would do seven years ago. This does not feel like you are in the, in the thrall of some new dangerous technology that we don't know. We don't know what is, how it is shaping our kids' minds. You're John, you have already ruled out the canard that is usually thrown about that the video games these days

are turning our children into murderers. You're not playing any of the hyper-violent games that celebrate disturbingly socially marginal behavior that are out there which uh shall remain nameless but i mentioned it earlier in the show as being a game that is at once purposefully offensive and yet equally enticing and genius in its own in its own dark ways, right? There's not anything that's really going on. Plus, as much as your father wants to strap you to a Fitbit,

the truth is that you're out there wrestling and lacrossing and reading investment books. So you're not even a nerd. You're not even a nerd you're not even a a sedentary nerd you are exactly what your father says you are which is kind of a renaissance dude who probably should be dating a little bit more but that's at your own time i'm not going to push that on you any more than I'm going to push a life of agricultural labor. Your dad senses, however, that your renaissance-ness is fading because he has come back and he sees you using the computer all the time, right? And he has a perception bias, which is my son's using the computer too much. You yourself, John, have run the numbers, and you know he's not using the computer more than anybody else, nor is he an out-of-control maniac.

It is the image, Quinn, this is not something that you will be able to understand until you are a parent yourself. It is the image of seeing your child sucked into a different world that has nothing to do with you, that is made doubly chilling by the fact that you are staring into a screen, your senses blocked off in either ear, and talking to people that the parent cannot even see. That is what is disturbing. That is what your father, makes your father feel that your renaissance-ness is slipping away.

Not that you have changed your behavior that dramatically, although it sounds like you're playing more games than you did before the summer. But the time that you are wasting, right, is not your father's concern. It's not the time that's slipping through your fingers quinn that i think really bothers john this is my two-bit diagnosis but john you are feeling that time slip through your fingers your son is 17. He has a super cool black grand am, and he has a agency in the world to go out. You cannot decide whether or not you want to treat him like a child by telling him, stop playing computer games. And when he invites you to treat him like a child and lay down regulations as though he were a child, then you back off.

You say, no, but you're an adult. And that's normal. He is in a weird twilight zone between childhood and adulthood. And as you are aware of that twilight nature, you feel the oncoming night, the loneliness when your son will disappear, not into a game, but into that black grand dam and into a life of his own outside of the house. You see yourself playing, what was it, asteroids and millipede. asteroids and millipede you see yourself wasting time and you see yourself with hindsight unable to realize that this is his time to waste you perhaps wish that there were things that you had done instead of playing millipede or centipede sorry millipede is the the lesser sequel much like the fourth man but you didn't waste your time either sir you got a job that i you call the rat race but it's involves it involves putting trains through universities you're not you're not detasseling corn you've got a family and you've got sons uh you've got a what seems to

be a happy marriage and a son who's got a good sense of humor who's willing to at least give the third man a try when his dad says do this you've done everything right and i think your son's doing everything right too and here's the thing those kids who are going to the World Series of Poker, I don't think there are that many children who are doing it, but the World Series of Poker is getting younger and younger, not because people are applying themselves at youth to the great game of gambling in a way that they weren't before, but because they have time to waste.

Not because they value their time, but because young people have time to waste on things like poker games online. They learn to play poker better not because they are applying themselves in an adult mature manner. They learn to play better because a 20 year old who has been playing video poker online since he was the age of 13, let's say has played more hands of poker in his life than a comparative 70 year old had back when, when the world series of poker,

when poker was just played with physical cards. Because of video games. Your argument that your son is not a member of the Beatles is equally faulty, sir. For the reason that, do you think that the parents of John Lennon or Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney or George Harrison or Pete Best or Stu Sutcliffe all sat there going, at least my son isn't wasting his life and time playing that skiffle music in Berlin clubs. No, their parents were saying, get a real life, apply yourself, learn to play poker or something else. yourself learn to play poker or something else they were saying the same thing all parents were saying have said forever and which you are saying though you don't even realize you're saying

it which is don't make the mistakes that i made don't waste your time forgetting of course that it is the job of the teenager to waste his or her time that is how they figure out how they want to spend their time when they're done wasting it. And here's the thing too. You speak of scientific predictors of a child's outcome. And there are some scientific predictors of a child's outcome in life. Some pretty strong ones. Do they have a strong family life?

Do they have stability in their homes? Do they have good nutrition? Do they have access to pre-K education? And all of those things I guarantee you Quinn has had. The only really meaningful predictor. I think of a child doing okay. Is that at some point their parents thought they were doing the wrong thing

when they were teenagers. So I obviously find in favor of Quinn, but I make these orders. First of all, no 17-year-old will escape censure in my court. You will stop pronouncing nuclear that way. Get right, especially if you want to be an engineer. Two, John, the crux of this issue is not that your son is spending his time unwisely, but that you miss spending time with him. You have said it yourself. I was going to order it before you even said something. You guys got, you have to, if you want him to not play as much computers, games, play as much computers.

If you don't want him to play as much computer games, you got to offer him or force upon him an alternative. I say you make another Kickstarter for another crazy product. Maybe you guys will make a lot of money and then you'll have some investment advice to give each other. But time is limited. Not in Quinn's life, sadly, for he is immortal because he is 17 years old. But in all of our lives and the times that we have together, I agree that you could spend your time more wisely when you are home by getting, forcing Quinn off that computer to do something with you, even if it's just driving around in that black grand dam. I find in favor of Quinn, the teenager. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Quinn, how do you feel basking in your victory? I feel good, but I'll take into note John Hodgman's very philosophical and deep words. What activity would you most like to pursue with your dad? I mean, I know you have a long list of stuff you want to do with your dad, but. I think another Kickstarter project would be good. Do you have any ideas? Maybe an eight track cassette stacker?

Maybe build one of those tube televisions. I got to break in. If you guys, if you guys put together a Kickstarter to build a tube television together, a father-son tube television project, anything that resembles any of those words, we will buzz market the living heck out of it. It will get the full moxie treatment. John, how are you feeling? Well, I'm devastated by the decision, not in that I lost because I knew I would lose, but I didn't think the judge could pass up an opportunity to hammer a 17-year-old with some judgment. Just in my listening to all the podcasts, and for example, a Judge Hodgman quote is, that which is hard to do is best done bitterly and i thought thinking like that i'd get some uh some some kind of constraints put on this uh situation

just so that it doesn't get well you just learned something new which is that there is no scientific predictor for success, even in this courtroom. You can't, I'm unpredictable. You can't go back there and try to get me to reconsider my decision just because of a thing I said once. Flattery will get you a lot of the way there, but not all the way. John Quinn, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you, Judge.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running

in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-H Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, you know, I made a Kickstarter video for my conference, Make Your Thing. And now I'm thinking that instead of hiring an animator to animate it and, you know, writing a new voiceover track and all that stuff, I just should have edited it out of past Kickstarter videos. I'm sorry, Jesse, I wasn't paying attention. I was playing some Mr. Do. What? What were you saying? What were you saying about the Make Your Thing conference? It doesn't matter. Let's just clear the docket.

Yeah, let's get to that docket. Here's something from Jacob. My complaint is with my best friend Chris. Chris recently mentioned that if he had a PC, he would buy a computer game because it was on sale. I bought it for him as a Christmas present and gifted it to him through a gaming website. Chris rejected my present two times before I gave up trying to gifted it to him through a gaming website. Chris rejected my present two times

before I gave up trying to give it to him. I want an order that Chris accept the game and acquire the means, either by buying a PC or by borrowing one, to play it. Why, that would be like giving your friend an 8-track cassette stacker and ordering him to buy a black 2004

Pontiac Grand Am to use it in. By the way, the 2004 Pontiac Grand Am did have an 8-track player as standard equipment. Pontiac was one of the last nameplates to give up that particular technology. I miss Pontiac and I miss

the Grand Am. That was my favorite rental car to get. But I mean, it is sort of like saying like, here, I'm going to give you a bunch of eight track, eight tracks. Now you have to go buy the thing to play them. That's not fair to do. It's like giving someone a gallon of gasoline and then telling them they have to buy a car for it.

Even a better example. And indeed, I'm sure there are hundreds of better metaphors that I could have used, and all of them equally true. You cannot, if you give someone a gift that is a gift of generosity,

you should not give someone a gift for a platform that they do not have, nor can you then force them to buy the platform to play that game or the day track or whatever it is. I think if Jacob wants to give his friend Chris a game so much, he should give him a game in platform in one. So my suggestion is Tiger Electronic Baseball.

It's a classic. I always liked the soccer. Yeah, soccer's a good one, too. If you get that timing right, oh man, the home runs you can hit, my friend. Chris, you are going to be a happy guy. Hang on. I wonder if there's any...

Hang on. Self-contained... Self-contained Mr. Do. No. They don't make it. I was thinking that there might be a thing where you can just play Mr. Do. I don't know. Buy him a PC preloaded with Mr. Do.

That's what you should do next time. Mr. Do. It's gross. What's next? Here's something from Frank. My wife's a great cook and is especially good at experimenting with new dishes. Recently, she created a new dish made of brown rice, sardines, red cabbage, and Korean gochujang sauce. We both agreed that it was delicious, and we'd like to eat it again.

Crucially, we didn't have a name for the dish, so I gave it what I considered to be an excellent game. My wife finds the name unappetizing and has been put off by it ever since. The name is Alley Cat's Delight. I'm sorry, I just vomited. Just to be clear, the alley cat I'm talking about here is not a real cat. Rather, it's the classic cartoon hobo cat. Top hat with the top missing, bandage, knapsack on a stick, fish skeleton nearby, crooked smile. It's basically just describing Heathcliff.

If that doesn't make it clear enough, look at the cat on a can of fat cat beer and you'll get the spirit. I think it's a memorable name that fits. Because except maybe for the Gochujang sauce, the main ingredients are all cheap, unglamorous, and just not a big deal to just toss out. That's why a hobo cat would likely find it. And delight at the great taste. I'd like the judge to rule in my favor that A, Alley Cat's Delight is now the official name, at least in New Zealand, and B, the name shouldn't stop her from eating something she enjoys. For the record, I think that both Sloppy Joe and Juicy Lucy are more disgusting food names than Alley Cat's Delight.

They are disgusting, I agree, and you raise the good point that we do not eat first with our taste, nor even with our eyes, as is often said, but with our ears. When you hear the words alley cat's delight, that sounds like a euphemism for the vomit of an alley cat. It is disgusting. And by the way, the hobo cat that you describe is a fairly recent cultural invention. I think you must only be describing the great laughugh Out Loud cats as illustrated by our friend, the cartoonist Adam Koford, a.k.a. Aplad, who's got a new Laugh Out Loud cats book out called Down with the Laugh Out Loud Cats. That is all the alley cat chicanery that you require. That dish sounds good.

You should give it a name that you require. That dish sounds good. You should give it a name that sounds good. Why don't you call it, I don't know, Korean-style sardines with sauce. Or anything else. Or in

honor of Sampats, who designed all of my books and has been my friend since we were 15 years old, who is moving to Los Angeles from the East Coast for the very first time in his long life. Call it what he used to call, he and Tony Faulkner used to call their makeshift dinner dish they would have every night in college together,

four delicious ingredients. I think their four delicious ingredients were rice, meat, soy sauce, and garlic. But yours can be these, sardines, sauce, and the other two. Can I suggest that he replaced the sardines with the Patagonian tooth fish, a.k.a. Chilean sea bass? I wouldn't because that's a fish that's been overfished. But mackerel would be an interesting and I think sustainable substitute for sardines. But sardines are plentiful as far as I know. I just thought it was funny that it has this dumb name and a real name.

Don't joke with me about the world fisheries, Jesse. Sorry. One advantage to using mackerel is that it's used as currency in federal prisons. that it's used as currency in federal prisons. So if they have a lot of packages of it, you know, he could use it to buy favors and cigarettes and stuff. I had no idea. I knew you used mackerel to make pruno,

prison toilet wine, but I didn't realize, obviously, it's a currency. Well, it's because it's an affordable protein source that's easy to store, can store for a long time, and costs about a dollar. And also, there's been a crackdown on cigarettes, which were the previous currency. Well, it looks like someone's got to go back and reboot Oz. Now it's just called Max. Who named our case?

Our case this week was named by Holly. Holly Ashworth. Thank you very much, Holly. If you want to name one of our cases, just search for Judge John Hodgman in Facebook and click on Like. It's that easy. Or follow us on Twitter.

I'm at Jesse Thorne. Hodgman is at Hodgman. H-O-D-G-M-A-N. And you can always find me and all of my updated news and chicaneries at johnhodgman.com. You can subscribe to my mailing list by going to bit.ly slash hodgmail, H-O-D-G-M-A-I-L, or write me with your dispute at hodgeman at maximumfund.org or go to maximumfund.org slash J.J. Ho. That's J.J. Ho for Judge John Hodgman. This is serious, by the way. I don't want people goofing around. If you have a dispute in your life, bring it before the judge. If you don't have a dispute in your life, start a dispute and bring it before the judge.

It's that simple. That's how we bring you this great entertainment is with your great disputes. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. Go out there, everybody, and have some beefs with people. Beef it up. Look, if you got a rap career that's stalled out, start a beef. Bring it before the judge. It's going to have to be either a nerdcore rap career or what's that kind of rap where the guys wear tweed suits and they're English?

Chap hop. Chap hop. Chap hop. Oh boy, that's the worst. Let me tell you something. I know this beef has been settled, basically, between them. And so I really gain nothing by stirring this whole thing up again. But I have been doing my research, and I am clearly on the side of Professor Elemental. And Mr. Be the Gentleman Rhymer can bite it.

Wow. That's the kind of bold decisions you can expect if you bring your case before Judge John Hodgman at MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. No question Mr. Be the Gentleman Rhymer can play that banjolele. Oh, God. And is frankly a better dresser. No question Mr. Be the Gentleman Rhymer can play that banjolele. Oh, God. And is frankly a better dresser. And Jesse, I think if you were to watch a Mr. Be the Gentleman Rhymer video, you would be in a very hard place in your life because your contempt for everything that it represents from a musical standpoint would be sorely tested by your appreciation for the fashions therein.

I don't know. I feel like he's probably one of those guys that puts on a suit and then goes to Disneyland. Oh, I'm certainly he does. And once they, once he, once he saves, once he saves enough pounds Sterling to get over here, he will go. But I believe, and I'm staking my reputation on this, that between the two of them,

Professor Elemental is the better rhymer and more interesting entertainer. I just want to be clear. It's not that I dislike either of these guys personally or anyone in the entire chap hop scene. It's more that I hate everything they stand for. I think even they could probably accept that. I bet they're nice guys. I think that I've seen interviews with Professor Elemental

and he seems like a tremendously nice guy. In fact, I want to send word out right interviews with Professor Elemental, and he seems like a tremendously nice guy. In fact, I want to send word out right now to Professor Elemental. Professor Elemental, if you are out there and would like to be an expert witness on this program, I will allow it on any subject. If only to drive poor Jesse Thorne crazy. But let's be clear, this offer does not extend to Mr. B, the Gentleman Rhymer. I just... Which I can only assume is my high school geometry teacher wearing a tweed suit. Mr. Braunschweig, I salute you.

I think he's probably pretty good as well. And I'll tell you the only reason that I know about these, and people will find this hard to believe, the only reason I know about these dudes was that I follow the rapper, the young woman who is making a name for herself in the rap game these days, that name being formerly Kitty Pryde, until I presume she was sued out of existence by Marvel,

now just calls herself Kitty, was on Twitter having discovered Chap Hop and going through deep existential anger convulsions that it exists. And following Kitty in real time as she went down the rabbit hole, almost literal Victorian rabbit hole of chap hop was one of the, as far as I'm concerned,

why the internet was invented. Some of the music videos literally have them falling down a rabbit hole checking their pocket watches. While hearts and clubs and diamonds and spades swirl around them. Jesse, you have conjured the platonic ideal of chap hop. Oh, geez,

Louise. If you have, if you are able to say it, it exists in some dimension. I'm just glad that having talked about this now publicly, uh, I'm, it is my hope that people given their knowledge of my interest in both

dressing well and rap music, will stop sending me links to chat-pop videos. Oh, now it's... Because what can I say to those people? They're just trying to be nice. I am ordering the listeners of this podcast, those of you who have access to chat-pop videos, and Jesse Thorne's email address.

Double your work, friends. Do not. Okay, here. Triple production. Post your ChapHop videos on the MaxFunReddit. We have a subreddit on Reddit now. Just search for MaxFunReddit on your favorite search engine. Post them there.

Do not email them to me. I want to move from the agricultural feudal system of slow tended chap hop videos that marked your previous era of bothering Jesse Thorne into the industrial age of mass production of chap hop videos links. You know that now someone is going to create. Sent via steam barge. Someone's going to create a speed Zeppelin to Jesse Thorne's, uh, Aqua video phone. Someone's going to create some kind of steam powered bot. It sends me emails whenever a new chap hop video goes up on YouTube. I just want to see as long as,

but only if Jesse Thorne will, will, will live tweet his experience of watching chat Bob videos. Of course I won't. As, as Kitty did. Post them on there, post them on the Reddit and,

uh, and maybe I'll look at them. All right. That's the best I can promise. Extra podcast. Our, our editor is Mark McConville. Our producer is Julia Smith. Thank you, guys. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Bye-bye. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areas of my expertise dot com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to Maximum Fund dot org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at Forum dot Maximum Fund dot org and our Facebook group at Facebook dot com slash Judge John Hodgman.

We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.