Judge John Hodgman - Commedia della Morte

Episode Date: January 13, 2016

Jesse brings the case against his dad, Joseph. Joseph insists that his children hire a mime for his funeral (when the time comes). Jesse insists that a funeral is a time for grieving, not miming. 

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Commedia Della Morte. Jesse brings the case, not me, against his dad, Joseph. Not me. Sorry. Joseph insists that his children hire a mime for his funeral when the time comes. Jesse insists that a funeral is a time for grieving, not miming. Who will win? Who will lose? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and offers the obscure cultural reference. Family hurts us. It is like a trap. It shortens our life. It bothers us psychically and socioculturally. It forces us into a limited level of consciousness. It robs us of our essential self.

It inculcates ideas in us that are not our own. And at the moment when we find ourselves in the world, all of this collapses and we have to build a life from scratch. Generation after generation, each one is victim to the one before. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear father and son in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

Yes, I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he will have no funeral as he will never die? I do. Yes, I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. That's right, because mime has made me immortal. Just like Marcel Marceau, who is not dead, just in a state of very quiet, suspended animation. Jesse and Joseph, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can you name the person that I quoted as I entered the courtroom?

I'll give you a hint. It's a mime. One of the most quotable mimes of all times. What mime isn't quotable? Just the other day, I was preparing a commencement speech, and I said to myself, how can I open this? And I thought, ah, Marcel Marceau once indicated that he couldn't get out of a box. To start a commencement speech with a mime quote is a little bit. You can't hear this, but I'm touching my nose right now. I'm a little bit on the nose.

Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Joseph, you are the father of Jesse. You are dragged into this courtroom by your son against your will to make funeral arrangements for you because you're nearing death. And as such, you get the first chance to guess at the personage and mime that I was quoting as I entered the courtroom. You can guess first or you can make your son guess first, which is your choice. I'll guess first.

All right, then joseph guess away stanley the polish talking mime jesse what guess do you give as to the mime or meme if you will that i quoted as i entered this courtroom uh the the only name that i thought might be close was wrong okay who you were going to guess marcel marceau right the only famous mime we that was my second guess oh what was your premier guess uh ram das but he's not a mime so that can't be right why did why would you guess ram das i once you said mime i realized i was wrong yeah that's fair well so i was gonna guess saint thomas aquinas

then when he said mime i thought it could still be right but that's where i went wrong ram da it's it's not a bad guess because ram das course, is an American spiritual teacher and sort of countercultural self-help guru. And in addition to being a mime, this person also practices a kind of a spiritual healing course of what he calls psychoshamanism. But he is best known, even though he trained as and acted professionally as a mime for a number of years, he's best known as a filmmaker and comic book writer. And his name is Alejandro Jodorowsky, the Chilean born filmmaker, director of El Topo Santa Sangre. And, of course, the most famous film version of Dune that was never made. Alejandro Jodorowsky, and he studied his mind with Etienne Ducru, who also taught Marcel Marceau.

Marcel Marceau being, as I say, perhaps the most and maybe the only truly world famous meme, famous for hating hating wind he was walking against it all the time so all guesses are wrong and we actually have to hear the case jesse uh you bring this case against your father you would like me to prohibit him from having a mime at his own funeral. Is that correct? That's correct. And I recognize what a strong request that is in bringing the case against him that it's traditional in our culture

for a person to set their own last wishes for their funeral, their wake. You're asking me to allow you to disregard your father's own dying wishes. Well, what I'm hoping, that's pretty harsh, and I think to, well, a little accurate, I guess. How old are you, Jesse?

I'm 32. You are 32 years old. And Joseph, your son is 32. How close to death are you what is your age um i am a very young 73 73 yes how did that happen you had you had to think about it because probably yesterday you you were 62 no i yes yesterday i was 58 and when you say you're a very young 73, you obviously sound very spry. And so far, you've been able to use the impossible technology of Skype correctly. So good for you. Most 32 year olds aren't able to do it. So well done. When you say you are young,

you are young, so young at heart that you would like to have a clown at your funeral. Not a clown, Judge. I want a mime. There's a difference. Explain the difference to me and the listeners in this fake courtroom. Well, everyone is afraid of clowns and everyone hates a mime. The thing is that I have a vision of clowns on unicycles. You don't want to terrify your mourners.

You want to unite them against a common enemy. Yes. I want to distract them. All right. I want to distract them. I went to a memorial service for a teacher, a friend of mine. And at his service, there was a woman who was signing for his deaf son, and I was so distracted watching her

because I didn't understand her, that I wasn't able to even listen to what the rabbi was saying, and I thought, what a great idea, what a great distraction, if I could have a mime at my wake, I could just imagine what it would be like when that mom shows up with my family 25 Italians all talking and screaming at the same time it would be a great distraction that's what they it's a terrible stereotype but it's true Italians talk screen with their hands that's yes that's true more than just their hands judge yeah uh so let me back up here for a second so you you mentioned that your your friend who passed away was a teacher you're a teacher as well or do you i was uh no i retired i i taught junior

one of the reasons i'm young is i taught junior high school English for 23 years and high school English for another 10. So there's a little bit of that immaturity. That's what some people say. This is what teaching middle school kept you young? Yes, it does keep you young. I still enjoy bathroom humor, farty noises and stuff like that. You don't have to explain bathroom humor to me. Right.

I just assumed it was jokes about faucets. Faucets and drains. Right. Yeah, tile work, a little grout joke here and there. Okay, and where did you teach junior high school? I taught in Hicksville Junior High School on Long Island, and then I ended my 33-year career at the high school in Hicksville. And so, Jesse, do you live in New York State somewhere as well?

No, I live in Boston. In Boston. I live in Jamaica Plain, and I teach in Brookline, actually, Judge. You do? I do. At a public school in Brookline, my hometown, or in a private school? I teach at Michael Driscoll Elementary School. Ah, Driscoll School.

Okay, so now I've established where you all are in the world. Joseph, let's go back to Hicksville for a moment. I'm very sorry that your friend passed away. You were distracted by the sight of a sign language interpreter who was at the funeral, and you thought, I would like a distraction. Now, you could have had any kind of distraction, another sign language interpreter for your funeral. Perhaps there would be some reason for that maybe someone just doing semaphore uh or or making uh sound effects a la prairie home companion but you chose a mime why a mime well the if you're a good parent and your children love you, the last thing you do to them is make them cry.

So I thought, I certainly want my children to cry, but after they cry, I want them to laugh. So what a surprise it would be to have in the midst of all of this crying, because I assume there are going to be a lot of people there who are going to miss me and who are going to cry, to have a mime appear, unexplained, unintroduced, just appearing in his white mime makeup with a little tear painted under his eye and a striped shirt, and just come in and do mimey things, eavesdrop on conversations, be trapped in a box, as I will be trapped in a box, and so forth.

It's a metaphor for you, your inability to escape death. Okay, all right. I was an English teacher. I'll grant that. Unlike the one time I took a Shakespeare course with the great Shakespeare scholar and literary critic, Harold Bloom at Yale university as, and I only took one semester of it.

And I only said one comment. It was some totally banal interpretation of Macbeth or something. And Harold, where every other teacher in the world would say, all right, that's an interesting idea. let's explore this a little further Harold Bloom said oh no my dear you're wrong that interpretation is incorrect and moved on to a smarter student but thank you for thank you for uh thank you for uh yesing me along, unlike the cruel Harold Bloom, with my use of meme as metaphor for death. Because the thing about mime is that unlike a clown or a stand-up comedian or, frankly, semaphore, they're not designed to be hilarious.

They're designed to be provocative of contemplation and weirdness and silence. You know what I mean? Yes. Does that play into your thinking or you just wanted something weird to happen? I just wanted something weird to happen. I don't think you thought it through. Sounds about right. I don't know whether you thought this all the way through then,

because a good meme has never made anyone laugh, and arguably neither has a bad meme. And meme, by the way, for you listening along at home, I'm not obviously talking about M-E-M-E from the internet. I'm talking about the French pronunciation of mime, which is meme. It's one of my many dumb affectations. Jesse, you've heard why your father wants to, I guess his intention is to make you laugh in your sorrow and also surprise and confuse and disorient the relatives who weren't privy to this mime plan from the beginning as you would be. Why do you oppose this scheme?

Well, I think, you know, my father said that he wanted there to be a distraction at the service. And I certainly understand why a distraction is welcome when a loved one has died. but I think to have a mime at the service that entire time would make it very difficult for people in the room to take his death seriously and to use that space and that time which is what we set aside in our society when someone dies. That is the appropriate time to be sad,

to allow oneself to fully feel the death of a loved one and the awfulness of mortality, and to be with family and loved ones and to have support and to go through that awful feeling. and to go through that awful feeling. And I think to have a mime there would make a joke of life. Mortality. It's very thoughtful.

Is it typical of your father to make a joke of life? Everything that comes out of my father's mouth is a joke uh and um would you like that to not be the case it's it's been it's been a a point of of some conflict between him and um his children and i think between him and his wife. Excuse me, Your Honor. Excuse me. Is this an objection? Yes, it is. That's hearsay.

Jesse can speak for Jesse, but he can't speak for the other three. When I've heard from the other three that they also have said that you sometimes don't take things seriously when they wish you would. Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute, Jesse. They said this? They've expressed this as well. And you heard it?

Yes. Yeah, that's hearsay. Sustained. Sustained. Objection is sustained, Jesse. You can only speak for yourself. Thank you. Thank you, Judge.

But, Dad, you can't pretend that this isn't a part of your personality, a sort of a constant for you. What would you wait before you accuse your father of anything? I want you to be very clear what you're accusing him of, which is to say what aspect of his personality are you trying to identify here? I think he has a tendency to, um, to jump to a joke, uh, either when, when being defensive or if the situation is awkward or if, you know, whatever it may be when, when a joke is easy and maybe diffuses the situation or, or shifts attention away or something. But where, you know, a more thoughtful, more constructive approach would not be to make light of something. I think that there are just some things that are more appropriate to take seriously.

You know, my father, I don't think he's quite thought this through. Like you said, Judge, that he's making a joke. There wasn't a deeper metaphor here, despite him being an English teacher. It's a joke. Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you saying that he's not sincere in wanting to have a mime there? I think he's excited about the unexpected nature of it.

And I completely appreciate the humor. Don't get me wrong. I'm being very serious. I find that hard to believe. Yeah, you sound like you're really yucking it up. You're out of control. By the way, what do you teach up there in Boston? Good old Yankee humorlessness? By the way, Jesse, I'm sure you do have a sense of humor. I'm sure you do appreciate the humor, but let me get some more details here from Joseph. Now, where in the course of the ceremony,

first of all, what kind of funeral service do you anticipate having? A religious service, a graveside service, non-religious? What do you anticipate? Well, I will be cremated. However, it's traditional. I have a wake. It used to be a three-day wake. I'd settle for one day.

Jesse, I love you dearly, Jesse. Jesse is very serious, but he also has my sense of humor, which is very interesting. He said that I'm making a joke about life. I'm really making a joke about death. Being dead sucks. I'm not looking forward to it. Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay. Overruled. Thank you, Judge. You know, I'm already allowing a million objections in my own mind

because I asked Joseph a specific question and he's starting to go off on how death sucks. And I'll let him, out of deference for fatherly wisdom, age and and courtesy to the those who are closer to death than I. Please go on, sir. You were saying that being dead sucks. Well, Jesse envisions this as being an ongoing thing with a mind appearing for two days, three days, hanging out with the family and stuff. appearing for two days, three days, hanging out with the family and stuff. I'm thinking more along the lines of everyone is there, they all talk, and in out of nowhere comes this mime and just passes through the crowd,

you know, and just sheds tears and is trapped in a box and walks against the wind and pulls the rope and then breezes through the crowd again and disappears. How long do you anticipate the mime act in the course of the day? A day long observation of morning. There will be, you're going to be cremated, but will your urn be in the room? Oh, this will be before I'm cremated. I want to be there to see this. Oh, I see. I don't think that's an option. Can I just clarify a couple of things,

aside from your obvious insanity? When you're talking about a three-day wake, is it- Oh, no, no, no, no. That was traditional. I'm talking about a three-day wake, is it... Oh, no, no, no, no. That was traditional. I'm talking about a one-day wake. In what tradition are we talking here? In my old Italian family background tradition, it was, you know, usually it was a two-day, sometimes three-day.

It's been scaled down. Give me a timeline. First of all, you pass away painlessly in your sleep, dreaming of an intimate encounter with a loved one. Okay. I had a better scenario, but I'll take that. Oh, what's your ideal scenario? With a young loved one is what I'm saying. Let's settle for the dream.

Let's settle for the dream. And then, you know, usually the viewing is from 2 o'clock, from 2 to 4, and then from 7 until 9. And let's say, not in the matinee performance, but in the matinee performance, but in the evening performance, the seven to nine,

the mime would appear. I would say the whole thing would probably take 15 minutes, 20 minutes and be gone. And then 10 years later, people would say, remember that wake we went to? I don't remember who it was, but it was a mime. It was a mime at that wake we went to? I don't remember who it was, but it was a mime. It was a mime at that wake. And this is what I want to leave people with.

They probably wouldn't remember who's. Frank, it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter, but they would remember the mime. They would remember the court case afterwards with whoever the mime sued for punching him. Well, I think Jesse raises a good point how important is it to you i mean obviously if i if i grant your motion and allow the mime uh jesse will know correct but you would like to keep it a secret from as many of the other people there as possible. How important is that to you?

Well, I've already kind of spread the word around to several of the people. One of my nephews who might just haul off and hit a mime. I already pre-prepared him for the possibility of a mime showing up to diffuse any possible violence. And what was your violent nephew's reaction to that? Did he punch you? No, he laughed. Anyone who knows me says,

we wouldn't think you would have it any other way than to have a mime at your wake. Objection, hearsay. I don't know if those people said that. Okay. Do you have any affidavits to present? No, I have no affidavits. Jesse, 15 minutes of mime in a two-hour viewing period is not acceptable?

That is less than I thought it was going to be. To be honest with you, Judge, until a few months ago, I was really hoping and thought that this was just a long time joke that my father was telling. Because he's been saying this to the family for years. And it wasn't until I called my older sister and said, so how about this mime? Is this for real? And she said yes and she has documents from my father you know requesting you know with the directions that to hire a mime after his death and he has provided a

cd with a soundtrack and everything and so this is whoa whoa whoa what soundtrack i i put together a last list which was music that I wanted played. And on it is Warren Zeebon's Lawyers, Guns and Money, Desperado, Who Knows Where the Time Goes. We Didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel. By the way, Billy Joel is a graduate of Hicksville High School. Yes. Why do you think I made that a graduate of Hicksville high school. Yes. Why do you think I made that joke? I don't know.

Okay. I just made, I just, I just, I didn't know that. That's good to know. Good to know. Yeah.

So I, I carefully gone through this. I, again, it's a mixture of sad and, and funny songs. And I thought it would, it would be in keeping with my personality. As I said, I still have a junior high school mentality.

Okay, Joseph the Ham, what else have you got going on at your funerary hoedown? Fake snakes in mixed nuts cans? No, no. No, it's a mine. It's a mine. I'm not classy. Are all the drinks going to be served with fake ice cubes with plastic flies in them? How many Italian funerals have you been to?

Two, but not, I don't think, as involved as yours. It's a wake, actually. The funeral is a whole other thing. Right. But it would be, you know, just a gathering. Oh, I'm sorry are you are you accusing me of not taking the your funeral seriously that's exactly the point i i don't want the funeral taken seriously i would like to be taken seriously but dad first of all nobody takes you takes you seriously. So that's just not an option.

That's not going to happen, mime or no mime. Well, I take that as a compliment. That's my intention. My intention, you said I always go for the joke. I want to leave you laughing. And I know you, Jess. I know you're so much like me. You're very sensitive, and despite this whole thing, there is a deep sensitivity to me.

We are very much alike. But after that passing, and I'm not looking forward to this. I'm really not looking forward to this. But after that passing, at some point, when you're 50 years old, 60 years old, and you think back and you say, you know, my father was really crazy, but I loved him. He made me laugh. What more could I hope for? opportunities to find humor in, to acknowledge the absurdity of mortality, um, and to find humor in life and in death. And I think what would those opportunities be? Pitch them to your,

to your dad in, in, um, speeches that people make at the wake. I can't imagine delivering a straight speech at his wake. That wouldn't make sense. I've already written what I want you to say. Hold on. Let me finish my thought before I forget it. But I think having a mime there changes the tone of the entire event. And in a way that, And in a way that, whether or not it's your intention, I think may make people feel as though it's not okay to be sad. That the expectation is to be laughing and jovial. When I think it should be a safe space where people can be sad,

where people shouldn't feel social pressure to have to laugh and smile. I take your meaning that you want people to feel comfortable in whatever feeling they're having and that the mime would be an unpleasant distraction, a confusing distraction rather than a pleasant distraction. Joseph, let me ask you a question here. You keep saying that you want to leave people laughing. You want to leave people laughing. You want to leave people laughing.

And I think that there's a lot of merit to that. But is the joke here like, look at this goof. He got a mime, the worst thing, right? Or is it that you actually have a love for the art of mime? Do you have a relationship with the art of mime that is meaningful to you? Well, I wouldn't say it's a love with the relationship with the art of mime.

I just think a mime is so contrary to the event, the funeral, the wake, that you have to see the absurdity, the humor, the, my God, what is it with it? He had a mime at the wake. When people talk about it, and I hope they will, they'll say, wow, that was really unique. I have a friend who plans to give out little keepsake keychains with his ashes in them. I thought, what a great idea that is.

My ex wants her ashes to be compressed into jewelry that our daughter and son will wear. I mean, that's her plan. I don't think a mime is that far out of the ballpark here. Are you trying to keep up with the Joneses? Oh, no, no, no. My friend's putting his ashes in some snow globes and giving them away.

Why can't I have a mime? My friend is getting his ashes put into an above-ground pool, but I getting his ashes put into an above ground pool, but I'm getting mine put into an in ground pool. Now I've done some research on this. I've looked up mimes and they are listed. I know. Yeah, no, all of this is invisible wind against which you are walking at this moment.

This is a smoke screen. None of that matters. I know that you guys can probably scrape together enough money to hire a decent mime. I know that there are mimes out there, and I know that they're listed. I'm trying to get to the crux of why you want this mime and whether it is worth the offense to your own son. Because the thing is, you want to leave leave him laughing but your son is saying to you it's not going to make me laugh it's going to make me upset well he's going to be upset i know he's going to be upset jesse's a very sensitive person and i know that but i think after he's upset and

after he's cried and after he has worked through that i think he will appreciate the the humor and because he does have that sense of humor that's my sense of humor in him um you said that you know what you want jesse to read at your funeral oh no i was joking oh okay but i was i said i said i had already written what i wanted him to say no that was that was a joke. That's not true. But you are a writer and you have been planning this for some time. And some evidence was submitted to me, first of all, of a Photoshop of, I guess, you or some person representing you in a casket with a big white beard and a giant beer belly. representing you in a casket with a big white beard and a giant beer belly uh and standing next to you in is a traditional mime in a striped shirt sort of doing jazz hands in front of your face and that's your that's we're going to put this on the website obviously please go to maximum

and you can see joseph's vision you made this this photoshop collage yourself sir is that correct actually the the uh my face in the beard that was part of a christmas card and what i did was i took that top part with my face in there and i put it in the in the coffin and then i took the line from an ad i don't remember what it was. I can tell you exactly what it was. It was for State Farm Insurance. Yes, yes. Because there are a couple of awnings in the background of this photo.

I just noticed it has the State Farm logo and name on there. You're secretly an agent for State Farm. Don't deny it, sir. Do the jingle. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is mime. All right.

So anyway, people can go look at that crypto advertisement on the website. But also provided to me was a poem that you wrote, Joseph, about this very subject. Do you have this poem in front of you? No, I don't. Okay. I have it up, Judge. Would you read it for me please jesse in the world without me the sun still rises and shines the moon paces through its phases shows up sometime confused in

the daytime but mostly at night the stars remain obscured by new york light. My adult children wake and sleep and work and maybe feel me there and gone and cry or laugh or both. My friends who haven't left the world before me might remember that wake of mine with a mime, that wake with a mime, unexplained, walking against the wind, trapped in a box, engaged in a tug of war, listening to conversations. If my adult children followed my last wishes and didn't just yes me to death and after decide what's best. My adult children, embarrassed sometimes, who made excuses for me frequently, indulged me often, accepted me flawed mostly, and gave my silly life meaning always. Do you remember writing that, sir?

I do. That's a very good poem. This is my father. I'm in tears. I'm in tears here. Wow. This is copyright 2013 Joseph E. Scalia from Poetry in Alphabetical Order published by

State Farm Insurance Press. Available as poetry in alphabetical order published by state farm insurance press available as an ebook but most importantly as i say copyright 2013 it is it is as we record this it is the very beginning of 2016 this has been on your mind for some time it is established via documents uh and i think i've heard everything that i need to hear. I'm now going to moonwalk back into my chambers and silently peruse the evidence. And I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jesse, how do you feel about your chances in the case here? Jesse, how do you feel about your chances in the case here? I know I'm making an extraordinary request to deny a person their last wishes.

I feel like my case is meaningful to me, and I feel like I have presented my honest feelings. And I also feel that my father rather speaks for himself. Joseph, how are you feeling? And follow up question. Is it weird that i was really enjoying that lovely poem until i felt like it took a turn for the spiteful and made me wonder if this entire thing wasn't just an opportunity for you to be preemptively resentful of your own children i i don't know how you can even feel that i i was moved by it. It was a, and I remember my state of mind when I wrote it. It was expressing to my children that with everything else that I've had in life, it's they are the ones that gave my life meaning and do give my life meaning. And then, of course, the mime, if the mime was there, I don't even know that the mime will be there. But no, I was not throwing sand in their faces.

We'll see if that has any bearing on the case when we come back in just a moment. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel.

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That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com that's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom when i first heard the subject of this case i i think listeners of to this podcast and and viewers in the galleries of this fake court can easily guess and my first instinct was yeah of course there's gonna be a mime at this funeral it's someone's dying wish and also it's cool because uh mime is a very unusual form of clowning it is the least funny form of clowning it is the most contemplative and and often saddest form when and you may not surprise you to learn that uh that i saw marcel marceau perform uh in boston i can't remember which theater it was i was 13 or 14 years old tim mcgonigal and i went on

one of our affected pretentious young dude dates to go see Marcel Marceau. And it was, you know, although mime itself, particularly as practiced by Marceau, is something of a stereotype now. There's no question this man had incredible physical precision and control over every aspect of his body and a deep emotional component to what he was doing that was very rarely funny and very often moving. And Marceau himself said, I have designed my style pantomimes as white ink drawings on black backgrounds

so that man's destiny appears as a thread lost in an endless labyrinth. I have tried to shed some gleams of light on the shadow of man startled by his anguish. And so there was something very apropos, unexpectedly, as your father, Jesse, comes to terms with his own surprise and startled anguish at appreciating that he's not 53 as he thought he was at the beginning of this podcast but is now 72 and soon older and when that happens you start trying to take you you have it's a profound um experience to start trying to take ownership of, of one's passing.

And, and so in many ways, having a mime seemed very appropriate. And this is before I even knew from the internet this morning that in ancient Roman times, mimes were a very common part of aristocratic and Roman funerals, where part of the process of mourning the dead, aside from hiring professional mourners, which I really hope you're going to do, I hope you're going to hire a bunch of women to wail and throw dust in everybody's eyes, was to have a silent,

was to have a silent, essentially mime, it's an anachronism to say that it was actually a mime because the term wasn't invented until much later, but to have a silent performer wearing a mask of the deceased enact memorable moments of that person's life in mime form, in silent mime form. There is something very much of death in the art form of mime. And so as I thought about it more, my conviction deepened that this absolutely should be part of a funeral ceremony. But then I heard you, Joseph, and I started to think twice.

I started to think, started to think twice the moment that, and I know you were joking, but jokes, I trust you agree, are designed to reveal deeper truths. And I said, you're going to, you know, an ideal death would be to pass painlessly in one's sleep, dreaming of an intimate encounter with a loved one. And you said, no, that's not how I want to go. I want to go awake while having an intimate encounter with a beautiful young person, that would be fun for you, but horribly traumatic for the other person. And as you prepare for your memorial service and defining how you want to be remembered of course it is absolutely your decision so as you consider your own death and prepare for how you are going to be remembered

it is totally appropriate to be selfish you know it's perhaps the the last expression of self that you have to offer the world. And yet one does not have a right to traumatize the folks that are left behind. You don't have a right to traumatize them. I know that wasn't your conscious intention and is not your conscious intention. You dropped some clues, nevertheless, that raised red flags for me. One of them was the idea that the mime was going to surprise everyone. And that it was going, the mime, presumably a male mime in your imaginings, was going to walk through and take everyone by surprise and really give everybody throw everyone for a loop and

while a funny prank is a funny prank uh i think you can hear in jesse's voice the anxiety that maybe this isn't the best time to throw people for a loop because they're incredibly emotionally vulnerable i heard heard emotional vulnerability in Jesse's voice. And it's not even your funeral yet. You know, it's a hard bunch of emotions to process. And if you throw a mime in there as a prank, then you're not necessarily, whatever your intention is, you're not necessarily sharing a joke with people that will leave everyone laughing. There, I think, a strong possibility that some people feel that you're playing a joke on them from the grave. And similarly,

Uh, and similarly, uh, backing up this fear that I have about your motives, conscious or unconscious, is the fact that you consider the mime to be a punchline. In other words, you're thinking of a stereotypical mime, um, that's just so out of nowhere and such a non sequitur that it's a, just a great big grand goof. And when I consider that your intention is to just have a big grand surprise goof, you're right. It'll leave people talking, but it may leave some people crying and going, why did you do this to us? Why did you surprise us with this mime? In this regard, it seems somewhat disrespectful.

In the same way that dying in the bed of another person might leave you happy, but the other person traumatized, the plan, at least in its current state of proposed execution, bad choice of words, I suppose, but as it's currently planned out, has a high potential for leaving your guests feel disrespected and not least disrespectful to the art of mime itself. Because I know more about mime as an art form having done two hours worth of wikipedia looking up today than it seems you have engaged with you didn't quote marcel marceau to me you'd come out talking marcel marceau going i have spent more than half a lifetime trying to express the tragic moment america the world's most quotable mime, Marcel

Marceau, than I would have found in your favorite music. You have thought this through. And what it comes down to is the ambiguity that I think Jesse senses of your intentions. of your intentions? Is your intention here to create a provocative, lovely, irreverent play and upheaval of the reverence of the funeral service? Or is it just to have a big laugh at everyone's expenses? Now, I know that consciously you are going to say, no, I don't want to, I don't want to make fun of my, my grieving loved ones. That's not my point. But I do think that you haven't thought through your, your feelings about this or your intentions completely because Jesse's already upset by it. It hasn't even happened yet. And so one thing about being an artist of any kind is that you have to follow your vision, right? But you also have to learn to take notes,

sometimes difficult notes. Sometimes people saying, yeah, this doesn't have the effect that you want it to have. And the truth is that you even have to take notes after you're dead. The note that your son is giving you is, I don't think this is quite right. And I think you need to take that note. I'm giving you that note too. All of that said, you wrote a poem about wanting to have a mime

at your funeral several years ago. You really want this mime. The fact is that you can do whatever you want, no matter what I say, no matter what Jesse says, you get an attorney, you write a will, and that mime will be there. But, and I'm not going to stand in the way of a dying man, and I call you that because we're all dying men and women.

Last wishes. But I am going to say to you this. It is the order of this court. And I encourage you to take this with all the gravity of a fake court on the Internet has. has that you a investigate your mind carefully b commission a work of art from a mime that is meaningful and will be meaningful to those in attendance that is to say don't just get a cliched mime for the sake of the mime. Imagine how that mime would feel. You're making a joke of that mime.

If you want a mime at your funeral, you go out there and you start seeing some mime in action, or at least go on YouTube. Cultivate a relationship with the mime that seems most attuned to your creative process, and commission him or her to create a short work to perform at your funeral. And that work can be funny, and that work can be sad, if and or both. And make your intention known to everyone who may attend. So they're not getting surprised with a mime, but in fact, see and understand the mime in the context of a large and final expression of self with which you wish to leave them. So I am finding in favor of the defendant, Joseph, but I am giving you strict orders to take this joke seriously and consider your audience thoughtfully or don't make the joke at all. This is the sound of a gavel.

Get it? It was silent. There was no sound. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Joseph, how do you feel about the ruling? Well, it gives me a lot to think about. I certainly have a lot to talk about to my kids and to Jesse, especially. And I will definitely take what the judge said into consideration and maybe rethink this and maybe retweak it a little

bit. You understand that the judge's ruling is binding, right? Yes, I do. Thank you. Jesse, how are you feeling? I felt conflicted asking the judge to prevent my father from doing this. prevent my father from from doing this and i think he was wise not to force my father to change his his last wishes but to to order him to to seriously consider the impact that they will have on uh the people who will be there are you a fun guy me yeah no i'm a human being oh damn this is your answer i had to come out of chambers for that one you know what you you can't see this but i am miming a huge slow clap for you jesse that was that was intense i liked that a lot jesse is very intense and in fact we we always talk about when the family gets together being a jesse or doing a jesse

and we say that with love and with respect and sometimes with our tongue firmly planted in our cheek this is the you that, you know, I heard a lot of weasel words from both of you around that. I'm not, I am not suggesting that you think about taking the joke more seriously. I'm ordering you to take the joke as seriously as it deserves. Do you understand what I'm saying? Those are my orders. Not just think about it. And Jesse, you should get out you should a gentleman who is a real human being like you probably would appreciate some serious heavy duty mime you can you can see

if there's some mime out there i'm not ordering you but i'm suggesting you can help your dad steer him in the direction of some of some really hot mimes i bet there's some good ones out there it was very interesting to hear the role they played in, in Roman funerals. Yeah. You get someone doing that. Ooh, boy,

I didn't be heavy. And it's a great joke. Jokes you take seriously are much funnier than jokes that you don't take seriously. Well, Jesse, Joseph, thank you for joining us on the judge,

John Hodgman podcast. This was terrific. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-R. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org.

If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, Judge Hodgman, you're going to have to talk. This is an audio program. Mm-mm, mm-mm. You're going to have to talk. This is an audio program. Mm-mm, mm-mm. Now, just going mm-mm, mm-mm is as much of a violation of the mime's code as talking is.

At this point, you're busted, you know? You're out. You're done. Meow. No, there's no such thing as a mime who just makes cat sounds, Judge Hodgman. I'm trying to pioneer new pathways in meme. This is a disaster. Well, look, how about thanks to Axel Kegler for naming this week's case? I'll allow it.

Thanks, Axel. You should follow us on social media if you want to name a future case. At Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne on Twitter. Just like Judge John Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne on Twitter. And just like judge John Hodgman on Facebook and join us on the Reddit at maximumfund.reddit.com the world's friendliest Reddit sub subreddit community. Maybe the world's only friendly subreddit. There's probably a few others. I have to thank our editor,

Mark McConville, not only for doing a top notch job editing this every each and every week but also for sending me out of the blue a holiday book a old 1991 wives cookbook from the Hartford Whalers hockey team I saw that on your tumblr that was amazing i just can't stop thanking mark for that this is you know lots of lots of times uh local sports teams their their their wives it's a very sexist thing but this is another age would get together and contribute their recipes for beans and franks typically and then they would put the hartford whalers or whatever other logo on it but of course hartford whalers logo is the best logo and then they would sell the Hartford Whalers or whatever other logo on it. But of course, Hartford Whalers logo is the best logo. And then they would sell it for charity. And Mark found one of these old things.

And I just can't, I can't. The portraits, I mean, they send in pictures of their families and all the mustaches and hockey haircuts. I love it so much. Thank you very much, Mark. Also, thanks to our producer, Julia Smith. Thank you, Julia, for everything you do as we begin this new year thank you for everything you've done in all these past years

and thank you to everyone who came out to see us at Sketchfest in San Francisco what a fun time we had and what a great job we did of course I'm recording this before it happened so I hope that that's true I mean it seems like a safe assumption we had a great time and we did a great job that's right I'm sure that before it happened, so I hope that that's true. I mean, it seems like a safe assumption. We had a great time and we did a great job. That's right.

I'm sure that that's exactly what happened. It makes a pile of sense. Thank you, Julia Smith, for being our producer as always. Who else do we have to thank? Jesse, anyone? No one, right? No, I think we already thanked Mark McConville. And, you know, we're pretty well set.

Oh, you know who I want to thank, Judge Hodgman? No, who? So a few weeks ago on the show, I mentioned that my menswear blog, Put This On, had started a store. Yeah. At putthisonshop.com. And I gave out a code, which was Bat Brothers. Bat Brothers. For free shipping.

And actually kind of a lot of people bought things from the shop using that code. And I got a lot of really nice emails from people about the nice things in the shop. So thank you to those people. And that code remains active. You can go to putthisonshop.com and fulfill all of your scarf, vintage accessory and notion, pocket square, and baseball cap needs. Well, that's fantastic because all the gifts I got from my dad for Christmas and his birthday, which just happened, either didn't fit him or he already had them. So I got to get some more gifts for him. Well, good news for you, sir. What's that code again for free shipping?

Bat Brothers. And what's the website? Putthisonshop.com. And what is the name of this podcast? The Judge John Hodgman Podcast. And how do we feel about our listeners? We love them. We love them.

Thank you. Pretty good was what I was going to say, but we love them is better. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.