Judge John Hodgman - Counter Argument

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Andie is tired of James leaving breakable items in peril! He plates, microwave dishes full of hot food, and even his ipad hanging on the edge of their countertops and tables. James says it’s easier to pick up items when they are not flush with the surface. But it stresses Andie out! She’s worried one errant hip bump will send all the hot food flying. James argues that saving a plate from crashing to the floor is the ULTIMATE thrill. Who's right? Thanks to reddit user u/banjo_solo for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! ---Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes and more. Memberships start at just $5 a month. Just tap here!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff, Jesse Thorne. This week, counter argument. Andy brings the case against her partner James. Andy says, James leaves breakable items in perilous places. It stresses her out when she walks into the kitchen and finds a plate dangling off the edge of a counter. James says he's doing this on purpose. He says, it's easier to pick up these items when they're on the edge. It's a time-saving system. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Hello, Jesse Thorne. I am at W-E-R-U in Maine with an audio obscure cultural reference. Do-pich-to-do. Mayleaf, Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Andy and James, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God, or whatever. I do.

Absolutely. you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that I've never seen a piece of dishes or cutlery or drinkware out of place in his beautiful home. Yes. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. If you mean everything is in its place, that means all the plates are on the floor. That way they can never fall down. Andy and James, you may be seated for immediate summary judgment.

And one of yours favorites can either be named the piece of audio obscure cultural reference. that I played for you here in the studios of WERU Community Sported Radio in Orland, Maine, 88.9 on your FM dial, wERU.org on your internet. James, we'll start with you. Very banjo forward. I would say the only thing that came into my head at the time was Ridge Rider. Those two words. That's all I have.

Is that a banjo song? Maybe or a banjo outfit, some sort of group. Might be a type of banjo. really, yeah. He's just in a, he's trying to communicate he's in a fugue state. Yeah, it lulled me to a place I don't normally go. When you said banjo outfit, I was thinking maybe there's a special jumpsuit that you wear. Yeah, like crew, you know, assemblage.

Yeah. You know what? I'm going to write that one down. Is anyone watching the YouTube can see I'm writing it down right now? That goes in the guest book. Andy, what is your guess? If not Ridge Rider, then what? I mean, he's, he's got a good shot.

as someone with a music degree earned in Arkansas. So I feel at a disadvantage. But my prepared guess of walking on broken glass by Annie Lennox is probably not correct. Oh, could be the 12-inch mix. It could be. So I would go with broken jug reel. You're talking about broken stuff because you think James's plates are going to fall off the table and smash up. I mean, it seems inevitable.

Would it help either of you if I said that the name of this, this would not, I'm not giving this to you. The name of this piece is called Yoda in a crawl space. Does I mean anything to you, Andy? James? Going once? Going twice? All guesses are wrong. Sorry about that.

See, here's the thing. Andy, you have been on Get Your Pets, one of my most beloved side hustles. a number of times. Am I right or am I wrong? You are correct. I am correct. We have met before in one of my beloved side hustles, the every now and then afternoon talk show,

where I, a person who used to be on actual television, every now and again, goes on the internet of an afternoon to chat with people's dogs and cats and other pets. It's called Get Your Pets. You have brought your dog Emmy Lou on the show a number of times. That's true. This started, well, it started way back when, but we really did it in earnest back in the spring of 2020

when we were all stuck at home alone, looking for connection, looking for emotional support animals, if only virtually to give pets to. And around that time, we met a friend of mine and the shows, Margaret Grace Myers, a Maine native who lives in Maine now

on a secret island in Maine. And she revealed, perhaps you weren't around for this conversation, but this is one of the greatest conversations I've ever had in my life. Margaret revealed that she had never seen a Star War. Not once in her life, has she ever seen a Star Wars movie? And I said, surely you have.

She said, wait a minute, I did see one. What's the one where Yoda is crawling through a crawl space? I don't think you've seen a Star Wars movie, Margaret. I'm sorry. I don't know that Yoda has ever crawled through a crawl space. But then sure enough, I looked up online, Yoda in a crawl space. I searched for Yoda in a crawl space.

And... Yeah, you don't need to look it up, Jesse. I found it for you. Here is Yoda in a crawl space. Where are you going, Yoda? James, do you know what Star War this is from? Because I do not remember. You just said you've seen all of the Star Wars.

I feel like I might be the closest to having seen all of them more than once. Yeah. This seems familiar, but I... I'm having a die-hard. I was going to say, is he a knock at Tories? Yeah. Yeah, Nakatomi, now I have a gun. It must be a prequel if it's anything.

That's my guess. Yodakaya, mother-fitting. Yoda says. Thank you. Because I didn't feel like I could do that. And I was so excited when I found this. It must be from Revenge of the Sith or attack of the clones, because it's certainly not from the Phantom Menace.

But in any case, it is a real thing that Margaret did not make up in her memory. It immediately sparked to me memories of the great Paul F. Tompkins' joke. Whenever you hear anything that sounds like this, Yoda in a crawl space, you sing it to the tune of girlfriend in a coma by the Smith's, Yoda in a crawl space, I know, I know, it's serious. Now, look, I want to live. I don't want to bite Paul F. Tompkins's joke. So I said, we got to come up with another, we got to come up with another song called Yoda in a crawl space. And so I reached out to another Get Your Pets regular. And this person's name is Mark Austin, although he goes by rooster, and he builds banjos at the Cloverlich banjo shop.

And he wrote the song that you just heard, which is called Yoda in a crawl space, played on the banjo. We will link all of these social media accounts, including Margaret Grace Myers' social media account, because she's a wonderful author. And she came out with a book last year, a really important and wonderful and readable and timely book, called the Fight for Sex Ed, subtitle the Century Long Battle Between Truth and Doctrine. It's a big history of the battle to teach sex education in public schools. And her name is Margaret Grace Myers, and she's wonderful. Jessie, you met her in Portland when we performed last time at the state.

Yes, I'm in Maine. This is of the summer chambers of Judge John Hodgman in Maine here at w-E-R-U.org Community-supported radio. Joel Mann is not in-house at the moment. Joel, man, I believe, is tuning up his base on the Portland. Richard the Pentegoate Inn, where he plays Tuesday nights with the night and day trio, and Pepin stepped in. Pepin is the, you're the digital savant.

Yeah, you're not on Mike Pepin, said, don't talk. Okay, Pepin won't talk. In the meantime, we're getting this off, we're getting this summer off, pulling this all together with a spit and twine at the last minute. So glad that you could join us. Andy and James, what is the nature of your dispute? Who seeks justice in this courtroom? What is going on?

in your home. I seek justice, Your Honor. Thank you, Andy. How's Emmy Lou, by the way? She is the same as she has always been, which is very much herself. I decided to get-your-pets obscure cultural reference in Emmylou's honor.

That's very kind. She is as velvety as ever. This is a mysterious dog named OK Boomer. But we'll talk more about that later. Got it. What is the justice that you see? We're not here to get your pets. We're here to dispense some justice to give some judgment, not getting pets, giving judgment.

Perfect. So what's the judgment you see? The judgment I seek is that I would appreciate the tension in the home to be lowered by providing a safer atmosphere for breakable objects. The thing I have noticed since James and I have moved in together, which is fairly recent, is that a lot of the time he will set plates down. in particular. Other objects as well, I have less of a concern there, but plates and dishes and things in particular, precariously close to the edge or literally some part of it being over the edge of a counter. And I find that to not be an acceptable way to manage dishware.

Now, Andy, you are a top fan on the Judge John Hodgman YouTube channel. Thank you very much for being a top fan. I appreciate it. On the Judge John Hodgman YouTube channel, which is at Judge John Hodgman pod, in case anyone who is listening, wanted to see what my summer chambers look like. And there you post under the handle.

Is it Memphisotan? There you go. I always want to say Memphis Satan. Well, I wish you wouldn't. Yeah, Memphis. I'll tell you about it'll decide. That's true. It's up to you.

Like Minnesota. You know what? That's my. call. Okay, sorry, Jesse. Can I call her Memphis Aiton? Yes or no? No. Okay. Fair enough. Thank you, Bailiff. You're welcome. That is because you live in Memphis, but you're from Sotan, right? That is correct. I am a fourth generation Minnesotan, but I have been been in Memphis for almost 27 years. And now, James, you and Andy cohabitate in Memphis as romantic partners. Is that correct? That is true. When did this cohabitation begin? About a year ago.

Oh, for real. The cohabitation piece, right? Well, you moved in a year ago and then I moved in last October. Yeah, but you were there a lot. Yes, fully cohabitating moved in last October. Yeah. And as soon as you moved in with this person that you, I presume, fully intend to share your life with for as long as possible, this horrible secret was revealed that he was putting plates on the edges of tables.

Basically, yeah, it kind of didn't, you know, when we were in our separate homes and separate kitchens and separate lives, I don't think it, I don't think I noticed it. And then your relationship predates the cohabitation then. Yeah, we didn't just decide to move in when we met. So that would be a heck of a swipe. It was, yeah, it was an odd thing to have not noticed before. But I think maybe once our things were combined and it was more like, oh, these are all of our things, I maybe saw them differently.

Yeah. Somebody ran in with a printout of the OKCupid scores. Like, we're moving straight to move in. Immediate cohabitation. The first time you met was sharing a bed in Memphis together in the brand new apartment. She just was there. And you also have a dog, don't you, James? I certainly do.

This dog's name is Boomer. It's just Boomer. Boomer. That's his name. He came with the name Boomer. I didn't name him, but then he's very loud. So it's appropriate. James, do you agree with Andy's assertion

that you place items close to the edge? I would say that I agree with the assertion, but it depends on what close means because I think the way I would describe it is, Yes, I am likely to put something close to the edge of a sink, a table, the island in the kitchen, that sort of thing. Yes. I can admit that freely. I don't mean to push you. I know that you're close to the edge. Yeah. But how close are we talking? Well, this has actually been part of the conversation. How close would close be? So is that an inch? Is it three inches? Is it a percentage of the overall circumference of a plate? What is it? give me an example of how close to the edge of a counter

you believe it is appropriate to place I'm going to say a salad plate so a small to medium size plate well I think the rim of that plate how far is it from the edge of that counter it can extend over the vertical edge of the surface to a small degree

now what we're not talking about is like a fulcrum teeter totter type of peril. That's not the thing. So... You're not making backyard play equipment. Right. I mean, I like the plate. I want it to survive me.

But I think not to jump too far ahead, but the goal is not to add danger to Andy's life. It's to sort of... It's where it goes when I put it down. And if I think about it, it's really

around especially if something is messy, like, you know, after-dinner plate, I don't want to put my thumb in the stuff. I want to be able to pick it up kind of from underneath. Or I think we've also talked about an iPad where it's flat on the bottom, and so if it's pushed over a little,

you can get underneath it. You're saying it makes it easier for you to retrieve a dirty plate or a dirty iPad or whatever it is. Any flat items? I think that's, That would be the only defense I could bring, yeah, I think so. And they're not close to the edge. They're over the edge, which I think the evidence will show.

They can be over the edge, yes, okay. Jesse, you came forward with a hypothetical of a salad plate. This is a blue crockery dinner plate that is hanging over the edge. And Jesse, I want to give you credit. That was a really good obscure cultural reference that you made saying, I don't want to push you. Was that Grandmaster Mellie Mell or Grandmaster Flash or who was that? I think that's mely-mel rapping. Yeah.

He didn't actually write that song. Like, they're like, engineer wrote that rap. Don't push me because I'm close to the edge. I'm trying not to lose my head. Ha-ha. Who jumped in there on the ha-ha's? Without you, James? Wishing that was the question.

I would have done better. Honestly, until you said over the edge, Jesse Thorne, I was like, I can't think of any obscure cultural references. is I got to go with Yoda in a crawl space. But now I'm like, all I can think of is the song is Living on the Edge by Aerosmith, close to the edit by Art of Noise, and of course, The Edge by Melly Mel. Anyway, this is a terrible way to put a plate. I've got to tell you right now, James.

I'm not proud of what I'm seeing, but I would argue not the system. It occurs, but it's not, you know, the plan. What I'm seeing in this photograph, is not just a plate that is a substantial dinner plate that's perhaps 25, 35% over the edge of a rounded-edged counter. It's also that it's placed between a large stack of dinner plates and a third dinner plate area, where all three are touching at the edge so that the outer ones could squish that one that's over the edge, off the edge, at any moment, just one bump into any of those three things could send that plate careening across the room.

You're right, Jesse. You don't need a thump and dog tail to send that plate over. A simple human hip will do it. One mistake reaching, even for the paper towel dispenser that's behind the array of three plates, coming from any direction, could send anything going anywhere. But James, you said that this is not part of it. of your system, although I thought this was your system, to leave things hanging over the edge so that they're easy to pick up. And I think that you also wrote down your system in a composition notebook

like this. Is that correct? It's an iPad with a security. That's an iPad with a composition notebook cover? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see. Exactly. Very cutesy. Well, it's been described as an anti-theft device because who would want to steal a composition notebook. So I... When you say has been described, do you mean by you? other people, actually. But I agreed. Well, you fool, you fool Judge John Hodgman. And you know what? I don't take that lightly. Tread carefully. You'll be punished. So you put it down for a second. And Andy, you swooped in and took this photo? You would think that. This photo actually appeared in my inbox because we had already discussed this issue. This had already been happening. And I had mentioned that, you know, this was I think I was noticing and was causing me a little bit of a little bit of stress.

And I received this picture from James and the words, see you in court. James, this is evidence you submitted. Apparently so. This is in support of your argument. Indirectly. Indirectly. It was submitted. James, do you consider behavior like this to be an active sort of handle creation? I don't know that I have like a plan.

Like I could graph this out of why this occurs. But yeah, I think so. I mean, it's easy to set it down. It's just as easy to pick it right back up. No problem. Is this something that you had done in your own home before you cohabitated with anybody? I have to say probably. I don't think I would notice.

Well, maybe it came so naturally to you that you didn't even notice. It was only when another set of eyes was cast upon your strange habits that you realized that some of Your habits are not necessarily typical. And I'm not saying that that's true of you, James. I'm saying anybody who moves in with somebody else, all of a sudden, all of your habits are under scrutiny and are subject to judgment by the person you're living with. And maybe you see things a different way. Fair enough.

Absolutely true. Why did you decide to hang almost 40% of your iPad off the table? I think I was walking out. Answer the question. James. I'll try. It's a tough one. Who can justify this act?

Look at this picture. I took it and said, I admit, I think I was literally about to walk out the door that is next to this table, and I set it down, and I'll be right back, and something came up, and when I came back,

I picked it up and moved it to my next place. Very handily. So easy. That's right. Friction removed. Because you don't want to be sitting there trying to scoop it up with your hands, right? Yeah. Scoop in it.

Well, and I think there's also an element of how flat is the item against the surface. And does it have, if I were to take this iPad and put it square in the middle of that table, you kind of have to, you almost, it's almost easier to scoot it to the edge and then pick it up as opposed to picking up directly vertically. You know a great way to pick up an iPad? Because sometimes they can be a little slick and hard to handle. I get it, especially when you coat them in Vaseline as I do. That makes them waterproof. Well, you know, it's a handy way to pick up an iPad if it's flat on the table. And this works for all technology, all computers.

Just get a high-powered magnet. Slap it on there and pull it up. It's great. Computers love that. Hard drives love it in particular. You say that you do this with flat things, and yet there is yet another piece of evidence that I'd like to share. I don't know if you sent this in in your defense, James,

or if this is an accusation from Andy. And I will say folks listening at home, all these images are being featured live on our YouTube episode right now at Judge John Hodgman Pod on YouTube. We'll also put it up on social media. You might want to pull over and take a look at this. This isn't anything that's flat. This isn't flat.

What is this item? I can't see it from here. Oh. That is a... How convenient for you, James. Explain what James is seeing with extreme prejudice. I can see it. I can see it all too well. It is a frozen pre-prepared meal of some sort.

I think it was one of those like postables or some sort of thing probably we got from, you know, major, major reasonable retailer. And, and yeah. This is an item purchased from a local trader. And so it is prepared. bartered for this, I guess. Prepared food and it is full in that current container. It is hot. It is a thing containing mess and food that is spillable.

And it is at least 15% over the edge of the island. Yeah. This food is not flat food, James. It's not a pizza or a communion wafer. Correct. It's a bowl of hot previously frozen mess. that is hanging over the edge of the kitchen island there. And I dare say that thing's about to get kicked off the island.

Well, whose hot bowl of food is this? That's mine. Okay. And do you remember setting it down? Not a bit. But I can imagine there's a microwave just to the left of this photo. So I can imagine taking it out, setting it down. It's really hot.

I'm going to have to pick it up again in a second. And I need to put it down really quick. And I don't know why it sat still to be photographed. I know. You're not in the room when I took this picture. I can see this. I didn't send this picture. No, this was not one that you sent as evidence in your...

The narrative starts to peter out right about there. So I don't, yeah. Along with the part that there are edges to that bowl, like at the top, there's a, there's a pick-upable edge. This is a bowl with a lip. Yes, indeed. Okay. So what was your thinking here? What was your plan?

Why is this happening? Again, unclear that I can fully state a plan. I can more describe what happens. And obviously you see this, but I think perhaps what happened here was, ouch, it's really hot, let me set it down. And I don't know why I'm not in this photo. I don't know where I was when this photo was taken. Andy, you obviously encountered this in the wild.

Quite. And had the presence of mine to take a photo. to send it in, because I guess you are already planning your vengeance upon your beloved James. As usual. Gathering evidence against him to send to me, your friend from Get Your Pets. When you look at this in your home that you are now sharing, how does that make you feel? It brings an amount of tension into my heart that I think is not necessary to be there. Because, yeah, I'm going to see that.

And I will admit, I am a very cautious. and diagnosed anxious person. So my thought is immediately going to go to, well, what's going to happen here? Like some bad thing is going to happen as a result of this. And this seems to make it more likely that a bad thing is going to happen. And... Yeah, one specific bad thing is going to happen is the food is going to fall on the floor. It seems like a higher likelihood of that happening than there could be in another situation.

So yeah, it's... The feeling is stress. it's tension. It's like, oh, no. And also a little bit of just being kind of baffled about the decision-making process behind it. Andy, to what extent is your objection about your concerns over things being in precarious places? And to what extent is your concern adjusting to living with someone who might take their lunch out of the microwave, put it down, then leave. I mean, I'm going to put that at 50-50, Vailiff. No, it is the concern in this situation is, yeah, either the object is at risk,

there's a risk of mess, which is also deeply ingrained in me to fear at all times. And it's, yeah, there's a little bit of like, oh, well, this is an interesting factor about this person. It does not make me think poorly of him, but it is a mystery. Does it fill you with regret that you agreed to live with him? It does not. Okay. That's good, James. James, have you noticed any habits of Andes that took you by surprise to move in? Can I plead the fifth here? You can't do whatever you want. Nothing that could be arguably described as dangerous as in what we've seen today. But you don't have to incriminate yourself, but I do. You don't have to incriminate yourself, but I do invite you to incriminate Andy.

Fair. Fair. Yeah. No, I don't think there's anything that would rise to this level that I could counter with, nor do I think it'd be productive to do so. But what fun discoveries have you made? I, you know, there's sort of, but it's so peda-it, it's sort of, okay, I'll give you one. Here we go. Under duress.

So it's, and it's unimportant. However, there are oven mitts, and the oven mitts as far as I can stay, as far as I can tell. James, let me interrupt you here. Yes. So far, I'm loving this. I cannot wait to hear what's going on with these oven mitts. Just oven mitts just pulls you in, right? So there's a safety factor.

We're being safe with the, I've never used two oven mitts in my life. I'm going to just get in there with the one mitt and make it happen. I don't care how heavy it is, how big it is. I'm going to put it right on the edge where it can all. off, I guess. But you'll get the oven mitts. You'll get them both. You'll, you'll do the thing. And then next Wednesday, they're still just kind of there. And I think it's an element of the same type of thing, just perhaps with a little less stunt work maybe or danger involved. That'll just stay there for a minute. And I'll just put them away. And I won't, you know, take a picture of it

and send it to anyone. James, you're saying what you have discovered is that your romantic partner will wear two oven mitts instead of one oven mitt. That's the start, right? Yeah, already.

Because... Yeah, exactly. Already unusual. And then when she removes something from the heat using the oven mitts, those oven mitts will remain on the thing that she removed. Just on the counter.

Like they'll be on the handles of the cast iron pan and she'll just slide her hands out casually. They're still grasping the cast iron pan as empty as though Andy has been raptured away. If anyone could do it. But no, I meant more like on the counter.

So I think there's a common thread of things just kind of went where they were. It's just minor objectionable and have been photographed. Now, this is an interesting situation because I presumed when we came into this that there was going to be, that you're going to be one of those dudes

in a heterosexual couple who so often come on the podcast saying, I have a system for doing things. And this may seem dangerous. And indeed, you articulated, this may seem dangerous, but it actually makes it easier for me to pick up dirty plates and iPads and whatever.

But then, you know, the more I ask you about it, then I show you this bowl of hot food, and you're like, I don't even know how that happened. I don't even know. You don't actually seem to be articulating a system. It seems like you're retconning a system to explain the behavior. I think maybe less, maybe on reflection, less a system. I can rationalize to a very, very full degree.

I can rationalize almost anything. The picture we're looking at here, I got nothing. But yeah, it's less, can I explain this thing that happens mostly? Well, this is to your credit, James, because if you were, if you were fighting to win this dumb argument, you would be hobgoblining yourself with a foolish consistency and saying, this is a perfect example of my system. That is much easier to pick up. And instead, what you're saying to me and to our listeners is that you're an honest person and you're just reckoning with this the best you can. And that's great. You're a human being.

I get it. But here's the thing. you do have a system, you seem very proud of it, with regard to oven mitts saying, I will only ever use one. Yeah, this is new. I'm saying you've got to live a little, and you know, why get out both?

But I want to make one. You're saying that leaving a hot bowl of stew half off the counter isn't reckless enough for you. You've got to only ever use a single oven mitt no matter how heavy the thing is. Increase the risk of it of splash factor. But I would like to make one quick point, if I can.

Some people, it's like they say in the Batman. Some people just want to watch the casserole fall and shatter. Yeah. Yeah. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Broken glass everywhere, people pissing into the stairs.

They just don't care. Tell me your one, what is your one oven mitt solution? Going back to, I think it's exhibit A. Is that the plate? I can tell that's an older photo because the bananas aren't there anymore.

And we've, there we go. This is now, John, just for your, John, just for your context, this photograph should be viewed as PBE previous to the banana era. Yeah, that's correct. There is a banana tree in the background, and that's how, speaking of Batman's, that's how James World's Greatest Detective is able to date this as an older photo because you've finished the bananas. No, the bananas are on the opposite side of the sink now. And so the point where I would, you know, want to drive towards is, I'm better than this right now, I think. I think I, oh, no, than that? No.

No, I actually, as we, because, you know, I. That was a mistake. I first reached out about the case some time ago and submitted some evidence and had discussions and we, you know, met to talk about it and all these things happened. and it took a process of time. And by the time we got here today, about a week or so ago, I was thinking, I was like,

is this even, is this even still a problem? Maybe since I mentioned it, he's being more aware of it and it's not happening. And then I realized it just is. Like, it was, I looked,

I was putting, I was filling the dishwasher, doing whatever, and like, there they were. They just were there. And so. This,

I mean, I can't over emphasize the extent to which this photograph makes me think that the center plate in this three plate array is like there specifically to be flung. Like possibly to be spun and flung as a disc weapon like the pizzas on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles attack van. Or if I may, the discs of Tron

on the video game Discs of Tron. Yeah, from the video game Discs of Tron. Yeah, everyone loves that one. Those discs. But there's a level of precision and control. that I think isn't being acknowledged. I don't name a time I've dropped a plate and broken it ever.

This is actually what I thought the main counter argument might be. You anticipated this line of... I did. Is that I can say in all of this, you know, in the amount of time that this has been observed,

I have never seen anything fall. It's not, it is completely a concern and a worry that I'm having. It is not, it has not come to. pass. Yeah, but your home is full of potential energy. There is that. I actually was mentioning this to my son and he's like, yeah, but I still wear my seatbelt. He's like, you do the thing, that's the reasonable thing to prevent something bad from happening, even if it doesn't happen every time that

it could. I guess I'm just wondering if there's a cognitive behavioral therapy workbook, specifically regarding plates that are one-third off the edge of the counter. Probably. What would the consequence B, if worst came to worse, write it down. Is this a manageable consequence? Write it down. But I think you make a good point that I want to acknowledge. Number one, am I able to pull this off? Sure. Jungle cat reflexes exist. But that's not the point. In fact, the placement of this plate makes it easier to pull off than ever. That's the problem. I don't know if you've ever dropped anything in your kitchen and caught it before it hit the floor, but there is no finer feeling in the world that I've ever experienced.

Like, ninja, finally. What an incredible dream that is. It's happened, but not with plates. Or to catch it with your foot. Have you ever caught something with your foot? I've caught it with my foot and then flipped it back up into my hand like I'm Jason Statham. I mean, it's awesome.

He drops things on his foot on purpose, like if he needs something to be in a different place. he'll be like drop on foot, put up somewhere and like get it over here. I think you're going to need to go back. This guy hacks so much more than sacks. I was going to a nice place in a second. And I try. Sorry, keep going. So these feats that I can either pull off or avoid, great.

What I really need to focus on is how they, the existence of the situation. Not the feet you're dropping things on. purpose, the feats of dexterity and skill that you pull off. Correct. But there is a condition in the place you live that makes you uncomfortable. And so it doesn't matter if I've got it. It needs to not be there. And I completely own that.

That I understand and respect entirely. Because of all the things to be anxious about a plate like that is probably, we can pull that off the list. Right. I mean, ideally. Stop saying pull off because that just makes me feel like it's falling. That plate's going nowhere. That's what I'm, that's important. It's a still photograph of a plate.

Of course it's going nowhere, but I'm looking at it now and it makes me nervous. Like it could fall off. I don't know. I'm getting excited. Now I'm picturing Andy and James's house as a sort of parkour video. Yeah, that's right. When everything's a hacky sack, nothing's a hacky sack. Look, we've, we've breezed by a couple of things that are too important to breeze by.

First of all, Andy. you're saying that James dropped things on his foot on purpose in order to move them. I need some specificity as the soul of narrative thing. What are we talking about when you say what is he dropping on his foot to move it? Now does he move it? He's not drop-kicking boomer, is he? He's not at all. I'm trying to think like if I feel like it's more we've been doing a lot of things around the house and putting things up and moving things and such.

So like he's putting curtains up or if he's, you know, if he's, you know, if he's, you know, at a height or doing something and the screw, I'm trying to think of something light enough that wouldn't have caused you pain, but like a screwdriver or something that he doesn't need or is in the way and he'll, instead of just taking it down the ladder to the floor or handing it off to somewhere or putting it on the ladder, he will drop it on the, like the nook of his foot, like the, where the foot meets the angle. Hackie sack style.

A bit of it hacky sackish. kind of bring it to a rest and then like yeah give it the give it the rest of the direction you're a hacky-sack and screwdrivers James sounds like it yeah Philip Philip said or flat-ed doesn't matter have you were you a hacky-sacker in in the quad no ever were in a quad is that something you know how to do shockingly to me I was really bad at it like yeah one two over I don't know you're trying to make up for lost time, for a lost youth and innocence, a hacky-sac ability that you never were able to develop? Yeah, most of my hacky-sac time was hoping no one saw what just happened.

Now, James, I want to roll back the record, the transcript of this to point out that about 45 days ago, I asked you to explain your single ovenmit theory, and you said, could we look at those pictures from Exhibit A again? started talking about something else. Tell me your single ovenment theory. Why is that better than using two oven mitts? I think it was an incidental observation, but I think it does speak to a level of anxiety or risk tolerance that might be different between us. You're saying you like to live on the edge a little bit.

You'll leave the plates out a little bit. Maybe you kind of hope they'll fall so you get to hacky-sack them back into the cupboard, like you're some kind of 1930s cartoon animal Mickey Mouse cleaning up Matt Ricardo 100% our friend Matt Ricardo could do that

Matt Ricardo could absolutely blindfold himself and put all the cups and saucers away by kicking them off the back of his well-shod heels and you like to just use one ovenment just because and then when you're done with that oven at

you put it away whereas Andy leaves it out something that could fall off a table and cause no harm whatsoever. What kind of fun is that? Arguably could cushion the plate that's about to fall onto the floor. Maybe it's a, maybe it's a plan. You're thinking five steps ahead. I think a common denominator of a lot of these is speed and efficiency. Like, James is very, like, streamline the process, make it as quick and as, you know, have as, has few people. pieces involved as possible. So if one of a minute's going to do it, I'm just going to get one of a minute.

It's going to take that extra time. I mean, I think when you've, when this first came up, even the idea of like, well, it's quicker to pick it up that way. Like, what time are you losing? Like, what is, what's the stopwatch between it's on the edge versus over here? Like, it feels like such a tiny, tiny amount of time. But I think you are interested in cutting any unnecessary amounts of time. Is that a fair observation, James? I think it's not purely time. It can also be effort, toil, frustration, annoyance, but all for the purpose of streamlining the activity.

You're trying to reduce friction, whether it's temporal friction or experiential emotional friction. Yeah, I would agree, except I would also say trying to or just it's happening that way. I'm not, again, I'm not entirely convinced that this is some fingertip, tapping plan. It's just sort of the way it is. Andy, does velocity increase your anxiety? When you do things quickly, do they make you more nervous? Yes. Generally, I think, yes. Trying to speed through things, I find is usually a good way of doing them incorrectly. Well, I mean, Andy's often wasting days of time finding that second oven mitt to bring out the hot plate from the oven or whatever.

You move through life a little bit more deliberately. Would that be fair to say? I think that's probably true, yes. James, how do you feel when Andy says, this makes me anxious? I wish you wouldn't do it. I feel like I want to never do it again. Oh, that's a good outcome. Let's say that then.

Easy enough, right? Well, is it not easy for you to make that way? Well, there's no malice, right? There's only, to me, a small thing. that arrives for her as a larger thing. And I feel like there's opportunity. And again, kind of the point of the going back to the banana tree, banana stand placement,

I thought things were kind of moving in that direction. I would like them to be, you know, easier. I don't want to create anxiety. You feel like you've been improving. From the time the bananas were on that side of the counter to where they are now, you feel that you've been improving. Andy says that she hasn't noticed it, but you have been making an effort?

Did you have you not noticed, or is it not zero? It's not zero. Okay. So, yeah. But you've noticed. Well, there may have been improvement, but I have noticed more the things that are the same. Well, Andy, to be fair,

we notice the things that annoy us more than we notice the things that don't annoy us because they don't annoy us. Right. So, but would you say that Andy is telling the truth when he says that he feels that he's improving, that he's trying to change this habit? I think, yes. No, I think that's, I think that's definitely true. I'm sure if it has come to his attention to do it differently, he has done it differently.

And maybe that's the main factor is it's sort of ingrained in just, not always a thing that gets consciousness. Andy, we know that you love leaving ovenmits around for days on end. It's my favorite. Are there any habits that you've changed either because James has asked you or because you know that it gets on his nerves? Trying to think. He has, I can't really think of many that he has mentioned or asked.

I think there are some things that. Oh, okay. Jesse, please mark in the record that Andy's perfect. Thank you. I'm sorry that I even asked. I didn't realize. I would not claim that in any way. He is extremely patient and loving and has been,

would much prefer me to do something that causes him minor stress if it's the way that I'd prefer to do it. So I think at this point, he, you know, those things don't come to light. I'm sure I'm being obnoxious every day. I mean, you have to be pretty good. gracious and kind to cohabitate with Minnesatan. That's Minnesotan.

Oh, thank you. It's easier than Maxi Satan. We do notice the things that annoy us. So how often are you noticing this? Multiple times a week. Probably, yeah, close to daily. I think as a larger kitchen management issue we've had to address is the, is the dishwasher in the ways by which we load it,

how often we load it, how often we run it. We don't hear those cases anymore, Andy. I know. If you're trying to sneak in a dishwasher case under the cover of these dishes hanging off the edge case, I'm going to find against you with extreme prejudice. You're trying to sneak in a dishwasher loading case? Yeah, you'll be disbarred.

I'm just saying, in the process of loading the dishwasher, which I think I do fairly regularly, I notice where the dishes are. and they are in places that I wouldn't consider ideal. You have one other piece of evidence that was submitted, I believe by you, Andy, called the Corner of Doom. Yes. Whoa.

Thank you, Jesse. This is a little white ceramic. I don't know whether it was a soup bowl or a snack bowl or whatever. It's a little snack bowl. Hang it off the edge of the kitchen sink area. Why is it the corner of doom? So our sink for some reason comes out. You can kind of barely see how much that there is an actual corner there.

So it does come out a couple of inches and creates this. There's a lip around the outside of the sink that extends beyond the edge of the counter by maybe three, four inches. Yeah, the juts out. The counter juts out a little bit. And it creates a little jog in the edge of the counter where this bowl has been placed. precariously, I presume, by James, Andy? Yes, that's correct. James, what happened here? What's going on?

Do you remember this one? Put the bowl down? I mean, I think, I mean, I don't know that I recommend. First of all, you don't come say, I'm going to take a picture of something you did and show it to people. No. So I'm not sure, but I suspect what happened here. I'm not asking you to accuse Andy of something.

I just want to know what happened with this bowl. Fair, but she's about. We have a picture. We can see. the picture, James. We know this is a real picture, and we know that you did it. I mean, I can appreciate why you would like to qualify this evidence as fruit of the poison banana tree, which is now on a different part of the counter. But while we have it, this bowl is dirty. You put it not merely on the counter instead of in the sink, which is, by the way, right there. Right there.

But not only on the edge of the counter, but somehow, impossibly, using Lovecraftian geometry, two edges of the counter. Three. One, two, three, plus two edges of the sink. It's too close to all of those things. You brought it out onto the promontory of this peninsula sticking out from the counter. What was in the snack bowl? Was it delicious? And why did you put it there?

I don't know what was in it. Yes, it was delicious. And I put it there because I was done. on with it. This is the raspberry bowl equivalent of watching man on a wire. It's true. And part of the reason this was submitted as the corner of doom is that, yes, I don't think anything should be put there ever. That's not a place you put things. Look how perfectly it fits. Exactly. I mean, I'm going to be frank with you, Andy. Ever since James recast this thing for me as an opportunity for parkour in hacky sack, all the

things that were just making me worried that something would break are now feel like the possibility of fun and excitement. That's a clever turn. Yeah. I mean, there's just there's things put here all the time. And that jut also does increase the, I think there was a mention earlier of an errant hip going by, which I would say has, you know, doubled in the last nine months. And so, yeah, I'm constantly concerned I'm going to, you know, brush by something. Control your hips in the kitchen. What are you doing in the kitchen that you're so wildly, Tasmanian devil style? You know, you have to deal with corners of sinks.

Remind me, Andy, who moved into whose home? Who pre-resided in this home before this cohabitation? Either of you? Only very briefly did James did. We both had separate homes and then we chose this house together. So he moved in last June, July. There we go. Yeah. And then I moved in in October. So about three four months after. So it's basically a new home for both of you. But Andy, James has a brief period of habitation before you. Yep. And whose world is the kitchen more, would you say? I cook dinners. James has a more established idea of like making breakfast and making lunch.

I have a concept of breakfast that it happens in the morning before many other things. Which I don't tend to. I knew you'd have a system for something, James. I mean, I think this might be the single most reasonable system we've ever heard about on Judge John Hodgman, the system whereby you get up in the morning. Eat breakfast. I've heard about it. No, I mean, you, you know, for himself and for his son and like things are, things are happening and more structured. Whereas, yeah, before dinner, I don't care that much about what's happening in there.

So it's not a situation where, and we've established the salary, it's like, this has been your home for a number of years. Andy or James, the other person's moving in and changing the way you do things in the kitchen, which is often a very personal space for some people. some people are very controlling about where things go in the kitchen some people are known to say something when they come back and find a spatula in the wrong place it doesn't pay to go away those people are me that's not what's going on here this is simply you guys are adjusting to lives entwined together and these plates are precarious for you but not so precarious for you James. So what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? Andy? I would like a ruling of just a pause in a little greater awareness in that zone that we are geared the sink.

You're talking about the splash zone. In your kitchen. I'm talking about the splash zone. Yes, exactly. We're plates and food and bolts of hot mess are going flying. Yeah, just just a little bit more awareness and in taking the time to think through where they're going. We had a discussion recently about like closing the loop, like whatever the last thing is, just do that last thing. And I feel like having them not be in a place where they could get brushed or they could, you know, be in more danger is part of that last step. James, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? Something along the lines of, this is not malice. I love you very much. I don't want to mess things up. in the kitchen or, you know, cause chaos.

But of all the things we could maybe have extended arguments about, this might not be top of the list. And we can work together to make things kind of happen. What would you like to have an extended argument about James? It seems like you've got some plans. James has been the intensity with which James has been avoiding causing problems. Remember how hard we had to work? about the pot holders? Yeah, I don't want to be, I don't want to be a problem. But also, maybe it's

recognition that the problem is not on purpose or even, even, that I'm even aware of it. But that doesn't mean it can't be addressed. First of all, James, I love you too. Second of all, it is very clear to me that you have convinced me that you are not aware of what you were doing and therefore you are not fit to stand trial. But I will, nonetheless, Let's make a ruling. I'm going to step away for a moment and go into the room full of CDs here at W-E-R-U. I think I'm going to go hang around the rap and reggae section. I'll come up with my verdict.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Andy, how are you feeling about your chances in the case right now? I feel pretty good. I think the fundamental ask of please do this different thing. is fair. I do think also, you know, it's worth considering that it is not. It is not intentional. It is, you know, I think I am realizing more and more that this is just a habit to break rather than a system to change. And I think that is more in line with having hopes that it will change. James, how are you feeling?

A little put upon, but I think fairly so. Tough to see some of those photos. But I would say I feel good about that level of kind of understanding each other a little better, agreeing that, you know, there's no intention to harm. So I think I feel good about that conversation. I'm not sure how I feel about the ruling to come, but I feel like that's still worth holding on to you. We'll see what Judge Hodgeman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Judge Hodgeman, we're taking a quick break from the case. This month on Bullseye, I just want to say, I'm guessing,

Judge John Hodgman listeners might enjoy checking out my interview with the hosts of Taskmaster. I'm just saying. I would say so. It's possible. Yeah. It's possible. Could be. Some might want to check out my interview with the legendary feminist artist Judy

Chicago, who is in her 80s and, is a pip. However, I'm going to guess there are also some who want to hear my bull's eye with Jesse Thorne interview with the host of Taskmaster, which you can find in your podcast feed or on YouTube. Well, I'm going to give a plug now that I'm here in my summer chambers for WERU, a community-supported radio station, truly one of the last true all-volunteer, all-free form, lots of Joe Byrd in the field hippies being played here in Orleans, Maine. It's a wonderful radio station, as you know, not just established public NPR affiliate stations, but small community radio stations, just like this one, have lost a lot of their funding over the past couple of years,

or I should say the past year due to the dissolution of the corporation for public broadcasting. It's a real shame, in my opinion. WERU needs your support now more than ever. Go to wERU.org to check out the live feed. It's always playing some wonderful music and interesting public affairs. As well, maybe you want to donate or become a member. Their membership drive is coming up at the beginning of August. I couldn't be here without them, and I really enjoy listening to the radio station all the time.

So take a listen, W-E-R-U, as in we-are-U.org. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So the first thing I want to say is that our new gavel from Offerman Woodshop is just about complete and on its way. In the meantime, however, I'm using makeshift gavels. In this case, books that I have found in my home that I am ready to pass along to someone else. Who will I throw the book at this week? We'll decide in a moment.

But first, the book is The Main by Trevanian. I was looking for a copy of Shibumi by Trevanian at the big chicken barn a few months ago. Couldn't find that. I found the main. This is another novel by Trevanian. I like it. I'm also throwing in, as a bonus to you, this mint in box. never unwrapped DVD of the first season of the Americans.

And since I did go into the CD room, the voluminous CD library here at W.R.U. I grabbed at random some wedding CDs. This is Weddings and Love Songs, and this is Irish Wedding Song, the only one you touched upon my life. It's the Wedding Song Collection. I'm not going to give these away, Pepin. You put these back in because I don't know where I got them from.

Thank you very much. But I will give you the Americans and the main. to the winner of this case. If I rule in your favor, you get those things. And maybe you will put them somewhere in a beautiful bookshelf in your home. Or maybe if you're the winner, you'll leave them dangling off a table somewhere. The second thing I want to say is this. It is okay to be James. It is okay to be James. James, it is very clear to me that you, as you say, you come into this with a complete absence of malice that you have, I really admire that you did not double down on your, this makes things easier to lift up theory, but instead simply acknowledged, I just

don't notice it happening. And the, and the, the truth of it is, that kind of honesty deserves to be rewarded. And the proof of that is that when Andy showed you a photo, after you had already been trying to improve and you realized you hadn't improved in this one case, you're like, oops, yeah, I shouldn't have done that. It's very, very clear to me that you want to change this habit and you simply have to exercise some more discipline in doing so. Here's the thing about cohabitation. I remember there was a brief time when I lived in our home in Brooklyn, New York alone. I was working on Bobby and Kristen Anderson Lopez's show up here on Hulu, still available on Hulu, along with Dictown, by the way.

Two wonderful stablemates in the Hulu catalog of unrenew shows, but you can still watch them. But when we were shooting that, I was living by myself. And one time I came in, came home, and I put, I don't know what it was, a cup of coffee or my keys or something on the counter, forgot about them. And when I woke up the next day, they were exactly where I left them. Something that had never happened before in a house full of, in a house full of other people, including adult kids and a cat that would occasionally jump up and bat something off the counter. The thing that was, it was just there. And for a moment, I felt a feeling of like, oh, at last I can have the world exactly the way I want it to.

No one will change where I put something down. but almost immediately I was filled with a profound sense of sadness and dread. I realized that if I don't move that thing, that thing will never move. I could put a plate two-thirds hanging off the edge. And more likely than not, absent a small earth tremor, it would stay that way forever. This was very, very sad, I realized, as someone who loves living, with other people, even though I have my introversion moments, even though I'm an only child who was very used to having everything under my control. After years and years of cohabitation, I realized there

is a benefit to it. The downside is people move your stuff around, but the upside is besides love and human company and companionship, people see you when you live together. They see things in you and they help see, help you see things in you that maybe you missed. And if you were not living with Andy, you might not have noticed the, she would never have taken those photos designed to incriminate you. You have never seen the evidence of your non-system, your absent-minded, leaving a big bowl of hot mess on the edge of the island. And when you see those things, that gives you the opportunity to improve, just as Andy now has the opportunity to realize, you should put the oven mitts away, Andy. Put them away. If you use something, put it away. That's the John Hodgman way.

As regards these particular plates and iPads hanging off of tables, look, James, it's your iPad. Do whatever you want with it. but yeah, having plates hanging off the table, particularly plates that still have some food on them or bowls that still have a lot of food in them, it's true that they haven't broken yet, but they will break eventually. You will learn eventually that this is not a safe way to stack up your plates,

but I'd rather you learn now from a punitive ruling from me and making the effort to change your habit and vice versa Andy, when James points out to you, what are all these oven mitts doing around here? First of all, you only need one. You can use two oven mitts, but put them away. Make these adjustments.

You shall live happily ever until the next time. And until the next time, I rule in Andy's favor. This is the sound of a mint in box first season DVD of the Americans. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Andy, how are you feeling about this verdict? Accurate.

No, I feel like it's, I think it's very fair, and I think it's a good acknowledgement as well of, you know, the effort being made and the love in the home. Like, we're all doing our best, and that always leaves room for better. So I look forward to better. James, just give it a two-inch margin on the counter side. Instead of hanging over two inches, give it two inches on the counter side.

James, how do you feel about this new margin? I think it's fair. I think we're not going to get into caliper territory, but yeah, I mean, it's a great idea. Get calipers. We're in that territory. I love it. Oh, now we are. Excellent.

Hey, everybody's happy. Andy, James, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And pleasure. Thank you. That's another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. Our thanks to Redator Banjo Solo for naming this week's episode. If you want to name future episodes, join us on Reddit at Maximum Fun, R slash Maximum Fun there on Reddit.

It's always fun in there. You can also chat about the show there. If you want to see these incredible plate photographs, make sure to follow us on Instagram. That's at Judge John Hodgman, or just visit this episode's page at maximum fun.org. We're also on TikTok and YouTube where you can enjoy all of the squirming and excitement that accompanied all of those edge things.

Yeah, we were real edge lords in this episode, Jesse. This show runs on your disputes, and we need them. Do you have a dispute with a loved one, a hated one, a liked one in your house, your household, your family, or your workplace? Is it okay to share an electric toothbrush if you switch out the head? which is better texting or sending voice memos. Is it festive or cringe to acknowledge a whole birthday week? What about a birthday month? How far is too far with birthdays?

We want all your hot takes, your weird opinions, and your strange arguments. Send them to me at maximum fund.org or literally send them to me at Hodgman at maximumfund.org. That is the email address. It goes directly to me. Don't worry if you think your case is too small. I want to read about them. We'll surely have use for them somewhere. Meanwhile, we have the YouTube comment of the week. Jesse, we just recently posted our best of the members-only mailbag episode live on our

feed and on our YouTube. Members-only mailbag is our extra bonus monthly episode that we send out just to members. You can always become a member starting at $5 a month by going to maximum fund.org slash join J-J-H-O. on this one, we talked about Mr. Owl, the one who guesses how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop. And Thomas Conan points out, I never really thought about how Mr. Owl wears a mortar board. He's very professorial, Jesse. Thomas Conan says, that guy's a pretentious jerk.

Woodsy Owl. That's an owl of the people. He sports a Tyrolean hat. That's just plain fun. Jesse, what's a Tyrolean hat? Tyrolean hat is the kind of hat that you would wear to hike the Tyrolean Alps. It is like a short-brimmed, often green, sometimes gray, but often green hat that you would wear with Torolean garb, which is, you know, like Lederhosen and stuff like that. Does it have a little feather in it?

It has little feather in it, and it often has pins on it representing places that you have hiked or peaks you have hiked. That is just plain. Hey, is this the kind of hat that Loli worm might wear? and yes this is roughly a lowly worm type hat yeah or or jason robarts and a thousand clowns you know what i'm going to do is i'm going to put on an alert a search engine alert tyrolean hat for sale on put this on shop dot com if i'm going to find one i know i'm going to find it put this on shop dot com and i want one now we've definitely had them before i don't know if we have any right now we i'm sure we have a few torolean pins uh anyway uh yeah i i i got to tell you all it makes me think of is that one uh christ

Fairbanks joke where he says he runs into the owl at graduation and says, that's funny, I haven't seen you on campus whole year. We're going to have swift justice in a second. Judge John Hodgman, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Memphis Podcasts in Memphis, Tennessee. Megan Rosati runs our social media. The podcast edited by A.J. McKin, our video editor is Daniel Spear, our producer Jennifer Marmer.

All right. Mr. Pants on the Max Fund subreddit asks, my brother and I have been arguing for 15 years about the USS Monitor. I say it was an ironclad ship. My brother insists it was not. Who's right? I had to look this one up.

The USS Monitor was built in 1861 during the Civil War. It was a Union Naval Ship that was built purposefully to reestablish the siege of the DHSIge of the, James River just before it flows into the Chesapeake, which the Confederacy, which siege, the Confederacy was seeking to break with its own ship, both of which were ironclad ships, according to the internet, which I believe in this case. The monitor in the Merrimack. That's the Battle of the Ironclads.

That's exactly the Battle of the Ironclads. See, Jesse knows he's a dad too. Jesse, I never heard of this Battle of the Ironclads, but you know that this 55-year-old White Dad's going to be looking at five YouTube videos about it tonight now that it's open. But in the meantime, Mr. Pants, you're right. Your brother is wrong. It's an ironclad. It's clad and iron, ain't it?

That's right, Jesse. Both the Merrimack and monitor were ironclads. Their hulls were clad in iron, and that's why they could shoot cannons at each other for 15 hours or whatever and not sink one another. And if you look at the picture of the monitor, it truly looks like a Dalek on a raft. It's an incredibly weird looking boat, and I'm really into it. I'm glad to be introduced to it. Don't forget to send us your hot takes. your uncommon opinions and your disputes. No case is too small. Just type them into the internet at

maximum fund.org slash JJHO. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgeman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network of artists' owned shows. Supported directly by you.