Judge John Hodgman - D-I-Why?!

Episode Date: September 24, 2014

Home renovation gone wrong (or has it?)!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, DIY. Chuck brings the case against his wife, Emily. Chuck performed a little surprise home renovation while Emily was away, but Emily isn't a fan of the finished look. Should Chuck fix it or stand by while a contractor takes over? Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. In 1936, George Nissen Larry Griswold invented the rebound tumbler and gave it a trademarked name, trampoline, after the Spanish word for diving board. Trampoline.

Trampoline. Of the following, which of these was never a commercial brand name? Listen carefully, I'll read it only once. Heroin, barbecue, escalator, muesak, cellophane, moxie, or klaxon. While you think it over, Jesse Thorne will swear you in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do.

I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that all the home renovations in his home are conducted by his two young children? I do. I do. I do. Very well. Chai Chajman? Chuck and Emily, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors,

can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Emily, you cannot, right? I don't think so. What was I, what was I, what was I gesturing toward? I'm not sure. I was like looking for a movie reference and then you tripped me up. Yeah. It was a, it was a, it was a, it was a question that I asked you. You asked which was, which was not an actual brand name. I think I have the answer. If that was the actual question that I understood. Hold on to answer okay chuck yes do you know the piece of culture i was referencing when i entered the courtroom i do what what was it chuck i believe you're referencing uh the uh max fun con trivia

that you and i perform well Well, hosted. Yeah. Sort of perform, sort of host. That is correct. I was referencing one of the questions from the pub quiz at MaxFunCon that Chuck and I host annually. Chuck, which one was it? What year? It feels like two years ago to me. So that would be what?

2012, let's say. Okay, you are incorrect. Or no, 2013. You are, no. You are incorrect. Chuck, this is literally some stuff you should know. All right. Chuck, you're out.

Emily, I'll rule in your favor if you give the correct answer my guess is klaxon incorrect incorrect klaxon began life as a commercial brand name it is a trademarked no alarm noise that has now become uh universal and generic just like uh heroin escalator mosaic cellophane moxie i actually had the word for moxie before we had the soda moxie and then the word that i i was said i would never say on this podcast again moxie because they did not they are not sponsoring us but barbecue never was a trademarked name that That was always. I guess. Yeah. I gotcha. I guess that explains why there are so many restaurants with barbecue in the name.

Do you know what a klaxon sounds like? I'd love to hear. Klaxon! Klaxon! Klaxon! Exactly like I thought. It's an onomatopoeia. All right.

Listen, everybody. You can sense the friendly interplay and intimacy of our little pre-trial chuckle along there. Chuck and Emily and I know each other. And so do you, everyone listening, because Chuck is co-host, along with Josh Clark, of the great podcast Stuff You Should Know. And Emily is his lawfully wedded wife right is that true lawfully wedded i do all right yeah yeah we're official not common law no all right there are papers to prove it and uh who brings this case before the court who seeks justice is it you, Emily? Well, I do seek justice, but I was not the plaintiff.

Yeah, I believe I brought the case, sir. Tell me what the trouble is, Chuck. Well, here's the deal. I like to surprise... It's a thing in my household when Emily goes out of town alone, usually to see her family in Akron, Ohio, that I would surprise.

I will be giving a free presentation at the public library. Check it out at johnhodgman.com. Okay. It's a free presentation and Q&A session at the Akron Public Library on date, enter here. Look it up at johnhodgman.com slash tour. They'll all be there. uh it's first come first serve and if you think your family is going to get some special treatment from me and waltz into the public library five minutes before showtime then you're probably you're probably right

all right so you're off to akron and chuck decides to surprise you by getting you flowers or buying you a new vcr what is it what do you do now i like to surprise her by getting you flowers or buying you a new VCR. What is it, Chuck? What do you do? No, I like to surprise her a lot of times by doing a, we're renovating an old house that we own. And I like to surprise her with a new project that I have completed. It's a good thing you're renovating a house that you own. Yeah. I'm glad you're not sneaking into homes in Atlanta that you do not own.

Surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you're going to into homes in Atlanta that you do not own. Surprise. Yeah. Okay, so you're going to do a whole total home makeover. Uh-huh. Because you're a handyman. I'm okay. All right. So where does the beef come in?

Well, the beef comes in in that when she returned home, she wasn't happy that I did this particular renovation without her consent and input. Or knowledge. And she didn't like the job that I did. She thought it was kind of crappy. And I think her words were, if you were a contractor, I would have fired you. And what was the renovation that you did again you dropped the ceiling five feet what did you do no i uh you put a widened a doorway uh into my from my dining room into my kitchen i took it from a doorway into a nice wide open uh archway

sort of thing right except not in the shape of an arch still a doorway just wider yeah you're right okay i got you yeah it's three doorways it's three doorway three door widths thereabouts so chuck you bring the case before court it would seem to me in the ancient legal adage the doorway is widened or you can't unwind in a doorway the damage is done exactly why do you why do you even bother aside from getting your voice on another hit podcast why are we here is there is there some movement to to unwind in the doorway yes there is uh she thinks it is too wide um and she's not happy with some of the other choices that I made, and wants to, I'm taking her to court because she wants to hire someone to correct the intricacies of my carpentry. That's one way of putting it.

And I'd like to do it myself. Okay, so Emily would like to hire a professional to come in and fix what she considers to be broken about this hole in your wall. And you don't want, and you want me to prohibit her from hiring that person. Yes, sir. All right,

Emily, what's wrong? What's wrong with this doorway? What are the mistakes that Chuck made? Well, the first mistake he made was not telling me he was doing it in the first place. So I,

my surprise was not a welcome one as one would hope a surprise might be. In fact, he tricked me. And this is important, I think, evidence. Because when we had come up with a big priority list of projects that we wanted to work on this fall. And when I was leaving, he said, hey, I want to do a project. It'll be less than $100. But I want to surprise you with it. And he tends to get a little bit of project ADD.

He'll go off of our list and be like, I want to make a new pathway to the house. Or I want to replace all the windows and just stuff that gets us away from the projects that we've already prioritized together. And so he said, what would you be mad if I did? Which I should have just made him tell me. I mean, like the total trick. Everyone should say that. Every married person should say that every morning to their spouse. And I fell for it.

I should have known at that point. You didn't say light our bed on fire. Exactly. He'd had like three or four recent ones. And I was like, please don't pave the pathway. I was thinking of what he could do for a hundred dollars that would make me mad and i wasn't really thinking that it would involve altering a like a structure in our home um so i had no idea that this was even happening you know i thought i was going to come home to a welcome project it was not it was not widening this doorway was not on your list of priorities yes

or no never never not on her list of priorities, yes or no? Never. Never. Not on her list of priorities. No. No, no, I understand you've got your secret list of priorities. You're still a human being, Chuck, and you still keep a secret agenda from your wife. Which is fine if it just stayed on the agenda instead of happening. So I come in. I think what she's saying is she would rather you have had an affair

than widen this doorway. I probably would have been about equally as mad. So I'm in the car and well, I come out of the airport and he picks me up in his pickup truck and it's full of this old wood. And I'm looking at it. I'm like, what is that? That looks like it's from our house. Oh, my God, did you do the arch? Did you do the doorway? And he said, yes, before I can figure out how I feel about it. He starts convincing me like he's, you know,

this is great. You're going to love it. And if you don't like it's your problem. So I got, I was mad before we even got home, you know, like he just completely set me up to fail the happy test. But wait, but I met

Emily as, as much as I i as much as i like you i fear that i i may have caught you in at least an inconsistency and at worst a horrible deception uh-oh because you said that he picked you up at the airport and then you asked him, did you widen that doorway? Which would suggest that you did have some pre-forewarning that a doorway might get widened while you were away in Akron. It hasn't come up in a couple of years. It was like low on the list of the ADD projects. That's totally true.

Chuck, why is Emily lying? What's going on? Well, I mean, it had been talked about certainly within the past two years for sure. Between the two of you or by yourself in the morning while you're shooting? Exactly. Let me think about it, actually. I'm pretty convinced that we had a real human conversation with each other. I just have to disagree.

Within what period of time? Oh, man. I mean, it's got to be within the last six or eight months we already know because you failed because you failed the cultural reference test that you don't understand time well that's true thank you but i feel like we have because uh i've had a bee in my bonnet about this freaking doorway for a while amongst other things though i didn't have an idea of how important it was. No, you don't understand your husband. I understand.

I'm trying. Emily, I need to ask Chuck some questions now, so please don't interject. Good luck. Chuck, please don't. Allow me to treat your wife as a hostile witness, not you.

Chuck, what was the problem with the door? Let me ask you, was this doorway, was this a safety concern? Were you getting a lot of bruises on your shoulder because the doorway was too narrow? Why was this bee in your bonnet? Okay, well, I sent you some photos. I don't know if you want to review that, but when you walk into our... I have them in front of me. Yeah, when you walk into our home there's a nice wide

doorway from the living room into the dining room and a nice wide doorway from the dining room into the sunroom and then just a regular old doorway where there used to be one of those swinging doors into the kitchen right and uh i just thought it would look nice if I opened it all up. Oh, you were upset because it lacked symmetry. It didn't match the other two wide doorways. Yeah, plus it just looks nicer open. And our refrigerator, the left-hand door of the refrigerator would only open 90 degrees because it would bang into the wall. And with it open, you can open the refrigerator door more than 90 degrees okay

i can see i can see now i'm reviewing these uh these photos that you sent in and uh to describe them for people at home you can go and look at them on on our website at maximum fun.org but i do see this uh the the original narrow doorway and now i see the original narrow doorway with one jam of it jamb of it all torn up and looking dangerous because that's what you did and now i see a new new framework for a wider door which i guess this is taken from the kitchen into the living room first of all you have doesn't that look nice you have some lovely arts and crafts style furniture in here. Thank you. How old is the house?

What, Emily, 1930? 1930. Yeah. And the reason that they're, and then I see a nice wide doorway here from the dining room into the kitchen. And there's a dog in there. Is that your dog or is that a ghost dog that just shows up in photographs? He came with the house. Yeah, he's a real dog.

He's from the 1930s as well? Uh-huh. All right. And then, all right, here I can see. So approximately how much wider did you make this doorway? Boy, I didn't measure, but... Well, that's... Boom.

That's interesting. Am I allowed to interject? Let me just make a note about that. You know the old carpentry saying don't say it once and measure nuns? No. Ugh.

Can we restart? No. Judge, please keep that in evidence. I allow you to interject. That would. Well, here, keep doing it. Is it the case of no more need be said? Well, he basically that was one of my main complaints. He took those lovely pieces of furniture and shove them into the wall and made the archway that big. Exactly. But it is it is nine inches bigger than both of the other archways, so it's not symmetrical.

That's not true. It's totally true. I measured. I think I even sent a picture of me measuring. Whoa, haven't you heard about the old carpentry saying? Yeah, I made it work with our furniture. Chuck, why didn't you measure the doorway? Well, I didn't think to because I just thought, hey, let's make it as wide as possible where we can still fit our furniture in the dining room comfortably.

Because wider is better and more open is better. I didn't think I had to match the other doorways on the other side of the room the reason that your doorway was narrow i would suspect is that in the 1930s uh you would not want to see the kitchen uh from the dining room that would be considered uh gross the kitchen is where you, servants work and messes are made. And that's why you had that swinging door from the kitchen to the dining room, because that was a passageway for not for humans, but for servants. Right. And and, you know, obviously, things have gone in a completely different direction in terms of home renovation and the the idea of like you know open floor plan no matter what you know everyone who goes on to the onto the house hunters international or domestic

get really freaked out get really freaked out if they can't see every room in their house from where they stand at the center island of the kitchen. Totally. The open concept. The open concept. That's what it was. I just like that Chuck's primary door philosophy is wider is better. Which was the slogan for the Pontiac Grand Prix in the late 90s. But he just latched onto it. Yeah. I was trying to remember what that was a slogan for. That's right.

Wider is better. I used to love to rent a Pontiac Grand Prix back when there were Grand Prixs and there were Pontiacs, but not anymore. They're all dead. Could you drive a Pontiac Grand Prix through your doorway? I drive one into my kitchen now. Yeah, it will fit. Okay. Your door might drive one into my kitchen now. Yeah, it will fit. Okay, what other problems did, what other mistakes did Chuck make aside from deceiving you, Emily? Or allegedly?

So I walk in. Well, first of all, the dining room light switch is now located in the kitchen, which I object to just strictly because it should be in the dining room. But it also was not, it was kind of next to the kitchen light switch, but down a little bit. I likened it when I was talking to Julia for the pre-court session to sloth's eyes in the Goonies, like one's up higher and the other is down a little bit lower and it's over i think i sent a picture of this it's over kind of right up against the

molding yeah so yeah i'm not happy with that at all first of all for those of you who are listening along and have not yet pulled over to the side of the road check out the the website these light switches are profoundly unfinished well you see the line at the bottom where he drew it, like he did try to line them up, it just never landed there. Yeah, he tried to line, and that line isn't level. That line is clearly going

up from left to right, like he just drew a line between these two light switches. They're different sizes. They do look like deformed eyes. They have no plates on them. It's weird. Chuck, let me ask you a question.

Yeah. Do you have any, and this is really what I'm asking. Do you have any electrical training whatsoever? No. There are a lot of mistruths in that whole last barrage from the two of you. I originally had them lined up perfectly, and they look great. And then I realized that when I would install the molding, that it got in the way of the light switch. So I had to move and buttress the light switch out with another piece of two by four and

when i did that and sunk the last screw it dropped it about a half inch yeah because there was no way you could have predicted what that molding was going to do well i'm not saying mold molding is completely unpredictable it could be no matter It changes widths like overnight. And you just don't know until you've installed that light switch whether the molding is going to work or not. There's no way you could have planned for this. It's like an octopus. It's constantly undulating and changing. Yeah, exactly. You know, molding is pretty much as smart as a dog and can navigate a maze within 35 seconds.

Molding can fit through the necks of most milk bottles and lie in there and wait for a long period of time. It's an incredible thing, molding. Oh, my God. You just don't know, and it'll change colors. And if you anger it, it will shoot off poisonous spores. So, Emily, there really was nothing that Chuck could have done to make those light switches line up. Because he had them perfect, but then the molding came along and just messed everything up.

Well, exactly. And while we're on the molding, if I may, the molding that he chose is not the same layout or kind of molding that's on the other two doors. So it's like an inch thinner and completely different style and not within the style of the house or the time period like the rest of the molding kind of is. Emily, how long were you away? I did this in a day, dude. Good Lord. I couldn't do this in 10 million years.

Well, evidently I couldn't do this in 10 million years. Well, evidently I can't either. I mean, this is, this is some pretty check. What you say you have no electrical training, which causes me great alarm that you are, that you are installing,

uh, uh, electrical outlets and stuff. You're doing some rewiring in there, right? No, no, no, no no i didn't have to rewire they they existed i just had to move them oh okay i got you into the kitchen but you turned off the electricity in the house before you did this right yeah that uh that one area of the

house sure okay right okay gotcha you but where do you get where where did you where did you learn to do all this stuff? I've been teaching myself home renovation since we bought this house. And I think it's important to note that my way of doing carpentry and things as a completely untaught person is very artistic and organic. And I tend to figure it out as I go. It does have an element of outsider art to it that's for sure it totally does and self-taught is this a new thing because you know i i've known i've known you for a while now checking i never would have thought oh boy if you turn your back on that guy he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna start your house yeah he's gonna he's gonna he's just gonna start your house yeah he's gonna start widening doorways like i like i i now i kind of feel like that time i think it was in 2013 when we shared that

that cabin together at max fun con i'm surprised it didn't come down one morning and find that you had installed a porthole in the wall look i built a secret room yeah and by the way why didn't you build a secret room if you're so if you're so if you're so add as you say if you're so obsessively into renovation do something useful and build a secret room or something on our list what else is on the list emily oh my gosh we've got a ton of stuff dude we're gonna die with this house unfinished yeah we've been diy-ing it for almost nine years. I understand, but give me your top. If you were going away and Chuck were to have surprised you with something that you wanted and cared about,

it would have been one of these top three things go, Emily. Well, he calls us the 90% Club, so he could have finished any of those projects. Painting the top of the hallway. Boring. It's still missing where, yeah, but it's been unpainted for five years. Boring. You're putting me on the spot. I should have brought this list because we came up with a huge list.

Oh, he could have taken up the tile in the kitchen because we're about to redo some of our kitchen. It seems like neither of you prepare for anything. You just wing it. I was waiting to see what he said. You wing it in renovation. You wing it in my courtroom. Yeah, you should have thought about the things that you might want to have done. I have a list.

I just don't have it with me. I promise. I'm very, I'm a planner. That's part of the problem. I'm a planner. I organize. I plan ahead and Chuck's just like dives in in the middle and goes, I'll figure it out from here. Right.

And are you a planner and a doer? In other words, do you execute the plans or do the plans just get, as in my case and in my marriage, the plans for anything just get more and more obsessively refined, but nothing would get done until my wife comes in and goes, I'll just widen this doorway and does it. Yeah, I'm definitely the one that kind of gets things moving forward. Right now, I'm more of a planner than a doer because I'm so busy at work. But generally, I am the one that kind of gets us on the right page and going in the right direction. We always joke, I'm the designer, Chuck's the builder.

That's kind of how it works. So he should have consulted the designer before styling our new doorway. So the only thing you can think of, though, that you would have preferred would have been a nice surprise would have been to come home to a painted ceiling. Yeah, a painted wall. He could have started on any of that. Well, yeah, a lot, I guess I will be honest, a lot of the stuff requires continuing to work on it because it would mess up a room of our house like taking up the kitchen tile we're about to redo a bunch of stuff in our kitchen i can think of a bunch of things actually you

could organize the basement yeah but we had a list yeah you yeah chuck i think your defense is very interesting chuck i could think of a bunch of things that would have made Emily very happy, but I decided to do this one instead. Surprise. Yeah. Because they're boring things, and this made, like, a big difference. So, like, it's awesome. And she likes it wide. Gross.

I know. I didn't know what to say about that. I will acknowledge I like it wider, but it needs to be fixed. It needs to match the rest of the doorways. And while I didn't even finish explaining what was wrong with it, I did send pictures, though. The molding where it meets the floor is a mild disaster. He kind of cut some shapes out.

I think he was just going to throw a bunch of caulk in there and be like, look, it looks great. It's kind of like Emperor Has No Clothes. He just tells me it looks great, and I'm supposed to believe it looks looks great but i was not on board with that at all i don't really think he had a plan either i'm seeing here chuck a photograph of the floor between the dining room and the kitchen and yes you do need you do need to replace that tile gross well no i was gonna that was on the on my fix-it list i know so, but there's a big hole in the floor. I guess that represents where the wall originally met the floor.

Yeah. And then you got that out. And so here's the thing, Chuck, truly, and I ask all of you listening along to go look at photo number eight. Which one is that? It's after photo number seven seven new placement of light switch photo number eight is captioned simply issues so you can take it photo number eight was mine you can see very clearly that the that where that

where the door was widened where the original where the original wall ended and now there's a big empty gap where the original wall once set in and, uh, and then you, you slapped up your, your, uh, your two before, uh, wherever it is to mark out the new door jam and painted it white. And this is not done obviously. So how would you begin? I like I'm so unhandy. I wouldn't even know how to begin to to to to resolve this ugly, unsightly former wall hole in your floor. What do you do to fix that check? Yeah, you just you would take up the old.

What's it called? Is it a that the not a transom, but the little the little thing between one room and the other where the doorway is? Sure, door jam. Look, you don't measure and you are completely self-taught. You might as well come up with your own name for it. The floor riser. The floor. So I would.

Call it the door, call it the door line piece. Call it the thing between, the thing between. the door line piece call it the thing between the the thing between yeah you pull it yeah in between i would pull up the original thing between and install a new wider thing between that would cover all that junk up like a what like a nice wide wood thing between nice wide wood thing between and this is something and and you go to a without mentioning names you're getting all this stuff at a at a big uh a big home renovation supply store yeah big buck store uh the thing between this might be something you have to order or i might be able to make it myself you're obviously using power tools i mean how do you how do you cut out the wall? Like, what did you do?

Is it structurally sound? How is it going to collapse now? Did you cut out a load-bearing up-and-down wood piece, that I'll call it? No, no, no, no. No, it's all sound. It's really easy to widen a doorway. I mean, all you do is rip off the molding,

exposing the frame, and then rip out the frame and then cut the drywall back to where you want it and put in a new frame. But if I may add, the carpentry of finishing it is much more complicated, and that's where we're running into the issue. I don't know. I mean, as long as you don't measure, I think you're safe. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about, Emily. You just nail up some thing-betweens. A couple of ups and downs. A couple of number-by-numbers.

You just nail them in with a claw-pounder, and you're done. Pretty much. How long have you been teaching yourself how to tear your house apart, Chuck? How long have we had the house? Almost nine years. Yeah, nine years. And that was a flurry of activity for the first few of those years. And then not as much since.

Have you ever, you say widening a door is easy. Is that based on lots of experience widening doors? Or this day that you just made the hole in your house bigger? No, that day I did it and I was like, well, that was pretty easy. Yeah. So now you've done it one time and now you're offering me John Hodgman masterclasses in how to smash out parts of the wall. Yeah, it's pretty easy why at the very least not match the set aside width for a moment the the the the molding and the millwork of the other doors in the room that was a mistake

probably but it was sort of too late by the time I had widened things. The original molding in those rooms is super wide, and it won't even fit now. What do you mean? Oh, like it will overlap like our nice bar and our dish cabinet. It will be behind the furniture. Oh, I see. Oh, I see, because the furniture, right. Because I widened it too much.

You widened it too much. That's an admission of something, I believe, there. I see what you're saying. So the frame of the original matching framework would actually impose on space where you have this lovely beautiful marble topped bar and then a another a thingy what do you call this a dish cabinet my grandma always called it the kitchen cabinet kitchen cabinet right okay so right okay so you chose so you chose i didn't think it really mattered well it matters okay thank you i guess it depends on whether you're trying to increase the value of your house or decrease the value of your house. We're definitely trying to increase. Dude, in a million years, no one would walk in to buy our house one day and say, the molding on that doorway doesn't match the one on the other doorway.

I completely disagree. I heartily disagree with you on that. Apparently everyone does. We've always wanted to have an argument in front of a jury of our peers, so we're very happy to be here. Yeah, I think that you are perhaps underestimating prospective buyers' interests in doorways looking like they belong in the same house together. No, it's not that far off. So what is your... All right, how much money did you spend

on widening this thing? Did you keep to that part of the bargain at least? Yeah, it wasn't very expensive at all to get to where I am now. Right, how much? Oh, I don't know. Like, all I really had to buy was that molding. Yeah, that garbage molding.

Right. Yeah. And a little drywall. And that's about it. So less than $100. Less than $100. Okay. Yeah.

The rest of it was just brawn and sweat. How much me? Well, I know. And I'm sure that it was extremely therapeutic to you. Emily, how much do you think it would cost? At this point, you don't want to re-narrow the doorway. You want to keep it the way it is? Well, I want to add a little bit back, and that's where we ran into some problems. Simply because, A, I would like a little bit

of wall around our furniture so we can have the right molding, and B, because I really want the light switch back in the dining room. I'm pretty emphatic about that. So that means bringing it back out, which means we would have to have a framing carpenter and a carpenter, you know, that that knows how to work with the molding in the floors. I mean, like our floors aren't level, our walls aren't plumb. It's just it's a complicated task that was well beyond Chuck's scope of work anyways. Like I don't even criticize the fact that he wasn't able to do it, just the fact that he is insisting that he should fix it. And so, Chuck, do you agree that you should narrow the doorway and make the molding match and everything else?

Like, are you amenable to that? Or is it, I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is whether you just object to the idea of bringing in a professional with experience now to do those final steps or whether you want to take a crack at it. experience now to do the, to do those final steps or whether you want to take a crack at it. I think that making it more narrow now would be a open up a big can of worms because of a lot of reasons. It's old plaster and laugh on the dining room side. And, uh, to make that, uh, you know what that is? Do I need to explain what that is? Pl lath yeah no i don't know what it is and i

made a quiet decision in my heart that i didn't care but go ahead well walls these days walls is are made from sheet rock or drywall sure uh back back in the olden days they made it was plaster and lath so they're these tiny little strips of uh of board that were coated in plaster and lath. So there are these tiny little strips of board that were coated in plaster. And so we have plaster walls. And it's hard to marry that to a modern drywall look. It just looks weird. Like you'd have to, we'd end up having to rip off that whole walls, plaster and lath and replace it all, I think, if we tried to make it more narrow again.

Is your opinion based on any expert consultation or just your gut feeling of how the walls in this house work? No, just from experience, like putting drywall next to plaster, they're two different surfaces, basically. How do you answer the great plaster and lath issue, Emily? I disagree that it'll be an issue. I think that there are ways, you know, with mud,

like there are ways to marry the two. And I'm surprised Chuck didn't bring this up because one of his arguments when we were discussing was going to be all of the other problems in our house. But yeah, no kidding. The dining room,

it was basically, we inherited it painted like layers of paint over layers of wallpaper. So there are already lines or seams within the walls anyways. It's not like they're these over layers of wallpaper. So there are already lines or seams within the walls anyways. It's not like they're these really pristine walls. It looks like they belong to an old house.

It's just one of the things you inherit when you take on an old house. So I think that it can be done without an enormous discrepancy in surfaces. So Chuck, you don't want to re-narrow the door. What do you need to do to finish this project to your satisfaction? Sit down and have a beer now and you're done. I think I would want to leave the molding as it is because no one cares.

Wait a minute. Hold on. Welcome to my world, guys. I think you know at least one person cares. And I think technically you have a certain obligation to care about what this other person cares about. Okay, fair enough. Thank you.

Leave the molding alone because no one cares except for some dope who also lives in this house. Dopey enough to marry me. Leave the molding as is. Leave it as wide as it is and just finish it all off nicely

and finish the floor off nicely. Okay. Do you feel, if Emily, if I were to rule in Emily's favor and she brought in a real ace framing carpenter, regular carpenter, a plaster and Lathman, the whole works. How would that make you feel? How would that make you feel? That's part of the problem is what's going to happen is some dude is going to come into my home and start, he's going to say, who did this? This is wrong. This is wrong.

Who did you hire? Who is this guy? And I'm that guy. Right. That's not going to happen. That's absolutely not going to happen. No. I think that that's part of his argument. I don't think that's reality.

No, I think that that'll probably happen. Yeah, it seems like maybe in his head. Yeah. But I don't think he's going to come in, you know, like. No, the first thing those guys do is is you've seen homes on homes. They love to pick apart the work of other contractors that came before. Sure. Admittedly, they're trying to make television there.

But I think that Chuck's instinct is probably right. Whoever comes in there, if they don't say it, is going to think, who did this? And then all Emily would have to do is say, my husband. And they would go, oh, I get it. Exactly. They would never mention it again. But it would be humiliating to you, Chuck. Well, you know what?

If she's insistent on this, then she needs to do it when I go out of town. See, that's not fair. This came up before. He said, if you're going to hire somebody, I don't want to be here. I'm like, so you've created the problem and you're leaving me to fix it. I object. Yeah, but you're not the one fixing it. You would be hiring a human to do it.

Yeah, but you have to manage the human. That's a whole other set of... Yeah, but you know what, Emily? Looking at what Chuck's doing these days, I'm not sure I would trust you to manage a human. You're not managing this human very well. Well, you've got one human that you're managing. She has a history, too.

I need to... She has a history of arguing and fighting with contractors. Of having torrid affairs with workmen? No, no, no. Of hating their guts and fighting with them.

One. One person. The them is one person. What happened? What did this person do wrong? Everything. We had a bathroom renovation that we hired someone to do

and it was just... You know, those things never go like you want. It always takes too long and costs too much. He lied. He told lies that made me mad at him. Yeah. To get out of things that he was supposed to be doing.

All right, final arguments. Emily, how much money are you willing to spend on a top plaster and Lathman? on a top plaster and Lathman, a number, a number, a number, a number one qualified and certified Georgia state door narrower at this stage. Well,

I guess expect to and willing to are different. I want it to be done correctly. We have some other projects that we need, you know, like we need some drywall replaced in one of our rooms. That was a DIY project gone wrong because it was hard and the walls are weird. I would expect to pay probably a few hundred dollars.

It's materials and labor, and I really don't think it's... If it was that easy to take apart, I can't imagine it's that hard to put back together. A few hundred dollars. I mean, that's just out of my hat, though. Yeah. If you were truly a planner, you would have gotten an estimate and brought it to this court. I was waiting on the ruling.

I wasn't going to waste my time. How much do you think it would cost? How much do you think it would cost, Chuck? Well, I think there's a lot of disrespect to this court from my wife, so I'd like to apologize on behalf of her. But I feel like the job would cost... The court enjoys a little contempt from time to time. It is not so fond of pandering. Thank you.

I knew that. I was hoping to get a shut your pie hole or something. Oh, okay. Go ahead, Jesse. Shut your pie hole! Jesse, I'm not sure that was even you. Do you have a shut your pie hole on a soundboard like a mr rogers prank call now well i have a couple different shut your pie

holes on the soundboard i don't i want to mix it up a little bit it's next to the iuga horn yeah clacks on clacks on i'm sorry i pressed the wrong button you guys i apologize uh how much do you think check it's going to cost? Oh, probably 500 American dollars and some ego manhood points. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to. I am going to widen the doorway to my chambers so I can finally walk in there with ease. I'll take a moment and consider my decision. I'll be back to render my judgment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Chuck, how are you feeling about your chances in the case? Well, I feel like I'm, I feel like once Hodgman heard it was a few hundred bucks, cause that's just like, you know, he likes cigars with a hundred dollar bill. So I figure he'll say, dude, pay the few hundred bucks and be done with it. So I don't anticipate I'll be ruled in my favor. If you've got this list of things that both you and your wife have agreed upon as priorities, why did you not just do one of those? Because it was, this was my priority. Boom.

And I wanted it wide, and it's awesome this way. It's so much better. Emily, how are you feeling? I feel like justice will be served. I believe I have a solid argument. Do you really think that you're going to get a contractor, potentially even multiple contractors, in and out of your house for a few hundred bucks?

Well, in addition to other projects, yes. I think that that could be tacked on. I really thought about what it would, you know, what I think it would be like building a little bit of a frame. We did go through, I will say, we worked with a carpenter to widen our, basically create a wall of our house and turn it into a closet. And, you know, I kind of saw what went into framing. And it's a couple of two by fours and some nails, you know, like this isn't this isn't an enormous frame. Yeah, and a claw pounder. This isn't an enormous project to get to add, you know, a foot back onto the wall.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say when we come back in just a second. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example?

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causes a sound to happen let's hear the sound yep that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound.

Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Well, there are a lot of things that I have to balance here. The aesthetics of your home, the long-term goals for whether you want to live there or

sell it at some point. Chuck's manhood. Thank you. Emily's reasonable expectation of matching molding. And, of course, the complete unpredictability of any construction project. You never know how big that hole's going to get. Who knows? Well, it's interesting that you agree with something that I was presenting

as a sarcastic example of something that is not true. I didn't pick up on that. I have to say, Chuck, I admire you deeply, even more than I already did, for being the kind of guy who can actually cut a hole in a wall and get it to the point that it looks not completely terrible. Thank you. And with the possibility of, with a little bit of finish, looking like it might have been done by someone who receives money from time to time for things. Man.

You know, as someone who is profoundly unhandy, I could not fathom how you have done what you have done. And if I the only way I could imagine it happening would be if I had a horrible sleepwalking incident and just went to town. And since you know that you have my admiration, you

will take it in good spirit when I say it kind of looks like you did this in your sleep. It looks homemade. It's a little homemade looking. You know, the fact that it did not occur to you to measure the width of the door, the fact that you kind of just like, that you winged it, shows. And, you know, so on one hand, it's incredibly impressive. On the other hand, it's sort of like,

yeah, there is an aesthetic issue here. One, whether the door should be wider or not. The reason that these doors were narrow, as I say, and had swinging doors on them was because the kitchen was not considered, when these houses were built, was not considered to be a place for company. It was a workspace and an intimate,

maybe an intimate family space, but often just a pure workspace that you hid away so that you could serve company in a respectable place like the dining room. And so you wouldn't want to look at it. And having an open concept, as I do here in Park Slope, makes things feel very light and airy. But it also makes you appreciate, like, there's nowhere to hide the mess. And if you're the kind of people who want to use that dining room and use those lovely martini glasses that I see on that bar there and maybe have me over for dinner sometime, you're going to be facing this issue of like, well, the kitchen looks like garbage.

If we hadn't widened this doorway, we could just close the door and just have a great rest of the evening and deal with it in the morning. But now it looks like garbage and everyone feels terrible. garbage and everyone feels terrible. I appreciate looking at all the angles of your dining room, why you thought that the kitchen door should be widened because the other doors are nice and wide and it really does create better flow through. And I do feel that, you know, now that it's done, you kind of can't go back to the original small door, and it doesn't sound like either of you really wants to. But, Chuck, you are guilty of two crimes. One, not taking sufficient care and planning in what you're doing,

and two, not alerting your wife to the project that you are going to undertake. and two, not alerting your wife to the project that you are going to undertake. And consequently, this extra wide door is going to, if allowed to stand the way it is, is going to be an open wound in your marriage for as long as you live in this place. Sounds like a curse. And to that degree, I say, who cares? You guys are entitled to ruin your marriage as much as you want, but don't ruin the investment that you have put into this home.

Chuck, your idea that not in one million years will someone come through there and say, it's weird that the molding doesn't match, is beyond wrong. You are absolutely, absolutely incorrect. I think it's something that someone will notice right away and wonder what happened. Because your house is old and it has a lot of, clearly a lot of craftspersonship was put into it when it was built uh and it was probably built by people who uh measured a thing before and knew the name knew the names of the pieces of wood they were nailing onto other pieces of wood and threshold that's what yeah threshold there Yeah, threshold. There you go. Threshold, yeah. Remember that thing you carried Emily over when you married her and promised to respect her by not bashing holes into her house without any consultation whatsoever? I thought it was a think-between.

Also known as a wooden think-between. I think it's amazing that you did this. Unfortunately, you did not do it right and it does need to be corrected so now the question is do we let you correct it or do we let Emily hire someone to correct it

and I have to say my instinct would be to say alright Chuck you started this you finish it off as best you can to a degree of perfection that resonates with you. And then Emily can take a long, hard look at it and say, well, you know what? It does look okay. Because it's still incomplete. I hope you agree that it's still incomplete.

There are big holes in the floor. There aren't plates on the light switches and everything else. And give Emily a time to live with the choices that you've made and see if she feels okay about it. But the problem with that is that I think the door is too wide. I think that you made it too wide. The door should not be wider than the other doors. I think that it makes your kitchen cabinet and your bar look crammed up against the walls there.

And because the molding doesn't match, because you made the door too wide, it looks a little junky and not okay. So I am going to find find in emily's favor the door should be narrowed to match the other the other doors and uh and finished by a professional of her choosing unless chuck do you want to try narrowing the door you think that it can't be done i think it would be a big pain in the butt. I think that you're admitting that shows incredible personal growth at this point. Agreed. Because, you know, you guys have dogs and you do not have children, unless I'm mistaken.

And if my wife, if I were in your situation and my wife were to go out to Akron, I would be watching movies all weekend. Smashing an extra hole in the wall is the definition of a pain in the butt to me. So acknowledging that there is a pain in the butt-ness is a good step, as far as I'm concerned into, into, into, uh, my mission, which is to emasculate you down to my level of never doing anything like this. Uh, I, I want you to take, I want,

I want you to continue to, to, to swing hammers in your home. I want you to take on ambitious projects. I want you to, to, to do it and self. And the fact that you're self taught is amazing. Uh, but I also think that going forward, uh,

you got, you, you, you, you, you can't be impulsive when punching holes in the wall. You need to take a little bit more time to plan it out in conjunction with the woman who also owns this house with you. Uh a plan so that you're both happy about it.

As for what to do with this particular thing, I think the doorway needs to be narrowed a little bit. I think Emily's got to hire the contractor. I think Emily's got to oversee the contractor. And you're not allowed to leave the house until it's done. Chuck, you can't go to Akron and hide and hide from this. If anything, I would say maybe Chuck, you find someone with a lot of experience. Maybe you go and hire the contract. In fact, this is what I'm going to say. You go and find a car, you go and find the contractor and you own up to the fact that you don't just inherently know in your hands how to build homes, and

you find someone and say, look, this is where I got so far. My wife thinks there are some mistakes. I'm acknowledging that there are. I'd like to hire you to come in, and I'd like to watch what you do and help out if you'll let me. You might not be able to for insurance reasons. So I can learn better how to do it better next time. And I bet you you'll find a contractor or someone with more experience than you at the very least who will say, sure thing.

And you give that guy some money, you'll learn a whole lot. And next time you won't be taken to court by your own wife. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Chuck, how are you feeling? A little stunned by that last bit of punitive add-on that I did not expect. I did not expect to be ruled in my favor, but I didn't think that I would have the punitive measures taken to basically force me to hat in hand, call the dude and say, I stink at this. Will you teach me?

I mean, to be fair, you do stink at it. You could really use someone to teach you. Oh, this is the worst possible outcome. It's an opportunity to grow. Emily, how do you feel? I feel great. I feel like that's exactly what should have happened. She's farting daisies.

I wouldn't say it that way. But I would like to add, because Chuck did not come to his defense with all the great projects he has done. Sometimes this approach works for him. In certain applications, this was just not one of them. So I would like to add. Thank you. Yeah. He could have done a little bit better job of defending himself, I think.

So I just wanted to add that. Chuck, Emily, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. faculty this is janet varney i'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast the jv club with janet varney is part of the curriculum for the school year learning about the teenage years of such guests as allison brie vicki peterson john hodgman and so many more is a valuable and

enriching experience one you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I.

Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o ah we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go Ow! Oh my gosh! Judge John Hodgman, are you okay? Jesse, I was just pounding with my claw pounder and I hit the... What's the technical term for the small thing that comes off your hand? Are you talking about your thumb?

I think it's a two by half inch appendage. Yeah, that's a thumb. All right, anyway. I'm in incredible pain is the point. Judge Hodgman, you've got to stop undertaking these wildcat chambers improvement projects as a surprise for me in the time between when you leave the courtroom and when I join you in chambers. There's only like five minutes. What can you even get done?

I know it wasn't anything you ever were interested in, but flattening my thumb has been on my agenda for a long time. Well, you know. Our thanks this week, speaking of agendas, to the great Chuck Bryant, who was kind enough to detail all of the bad decisions he's made for our entertainment. And Chuck is the host of Stuff You Should Know, the co-host of Stuff You Should Know, detail all of the bad decisions he's made for our entertainment.

And Chuck is the host of Stuff You Should Know, the co-host of Stuff You Should Know, along with his co-host Josh Clark. Josh Clark. Hello, Josh Clark. And Josh and Chuck, every week on their show, they detail all the information you never knew you needed to know about some fascinating topic. It's a great show.

You never knew you needed to know about some fascinating topic. It's a great show. It's funny and charming and sweet and highly informative. Highly recommended from myself. I'm guessing you probably recommend it too, right, John? I recommend it very highly. And indeed, unless it is a secret, and it will no longer be a secret when I tell you that they're doing an event in New York City on November 11th, and I'm going to do it with them somehow. We're going to work it out. I love performing with those guys. They're great. I think they just sold out a bunch of theaters in Canada,

because Canadians are curious. Everyone knows that. Oh, Judge Hodgman, I have a live show coming up here in Los Angeles. Tell me more about it, please. Well, I will be hosting an evening of my public radio program, Bullseye. Love it. Thank you. You're welcome. That will feature all kinds of extraordinary things, performances, interviews, and we've just announced a couple of guests for the show. I will be interviewing the great Dan Harmon, creator of the television program Community, star of the, from what I hear, I haven't seen it yet, but from what I hear, superb documentary Harmontown. Yes.

Certainly critically acclaimed from the director of Beauty is Embarrassing, the wonderful film about Wayne White. Jesse, Dan Harmon's a legend of comedy. Oh, I know. Created Channel 101, co-created Channel 101. Heat Vision and Jack. Heat Vision and Jack, the greatest unaired comedy pilot ever. You know what else he did? He co-wrote Monster House, a really fun animated film that I like.

Yeah, there you go. Dan Harmon. He's a winner. And then we're going to have music from the great Sarah Watkins. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Jesse. Sarah Watkins. Yeah, from the whoa, Jesse. Sarah Watkins. Yeah, from the Watkins family in Nickel Creek. She's a legend of music. She is. She has

already revolutionized music. She's still only in her early 30s. Good heavens. Beautiful voice and a beautiful fiddle player. I better learn to play an instrument because I am falling behind. You're telling me. In my mission to revolutionize music. And then, of course, there's the world's most beautiful stand-up comedian,

Mr. Steve Agee. Jesse, he's a legend of gigantism. Yes. He's a huge man and very funny. He's a gentle giant. So gentle. Have you ever had a chance, Jesse, to see

Steve Agee perform stand-up comedy in the afternoon for a group largely consisting of seven-year-olds? I haven't seen that. Have you had the opportunity to see that? It's a very unusual thing to see and very special. But if I had my choice, Jesse, I'd prefer to see Steve Agee on stage in a Masonic temple inside a cemetery in Los Angeles. But where can I do that? Well, you can see him on stage in a Masonic temple in a cemetery in Los Angeles, specifically the Hollywood Forever Cemetery, October 15th here in Los Angeles. And you should buy your tickets now because it's not a huge place.

Go to MaximumFun.org and the live show links are on the right there. Go down to October 15th. You'll find Bullseye live. Wait a minute, Jesse. Are you telling me this is all the same event? Live Bullseye with Dan Harmon, Sarah Watkins, and Steve Agee in a Masonic Temple inside the Hollywood Forever

Cemetery in Los Angeles, California and you can get tickets at MaximumFun.org? Yeah, and you know what? There's still one slot that we haven't booked yet. I mean, there's going to be another amazing celebrity on this thing. This show's going to blow people's minds. There's no doubt about it, at least not in my mind. Yeah, I agree with you, Jesse. Fantastic.

I'm so excited about this, and I want to do shows there all the time, but we can only do shows there all the time if we sell tickets to them. So please come, and if you're in Los Angeles, come so that we know that we can do these more regularly. And if you're not in Los Angeles, please spread the word about it to folks you might know who are in Southern California so we know that we can do these around the country because we're really excited about doing more Bullseye live shows and me talking to awesome guests all over the world and hearing from awesome bands and comics. And we have a lot of big plans, but we can only do them if folks buy tickets.

So the ticket link is at MaximumFun.org, and it's October 15th at the Masonic Lodge at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. John, you're also back on the road, right? Yes. Since the beginning of this podcast, I've consulted my personal diary, and I can now tell you with certainty that the Akron, Ohio event that I am doing,

that I spoke about with Emily and Chuck, is happening on October 22nd. This is a free event sponsored by the library. I'm going to show up, do a little reading, do a little talking, do a little Q&A-ing. First come, first serve, so come on along. But around that whole time, I'm also going to be doing shows in Philadelphia, in Madison, Milwaukee. Two big shows at the Up Comedy Theater in Chicago, Illinois.

And the triumphant, I hope, return to the Rex Theater in Pittsburgh. It's going to be a lot of fun. I had an enormously fun time meeting all of the Judge John Hodgman listeners who came to my show that I was doing with David Reese in the past week in Durham and Atlanta and Birmingham, Alabama with Jason Sins. It was an amazing evening, as was Austin, Texas and Los Angeles. So thank you guys for coming out. And just in case you're wondering, if you have seen a show by me in your city within the past year,

then the show you're going to see this year is not the same. It'll be new. Our show this week, named by Rick Amick, longtime supporter. Thank you very much, Rick. If you want to get in on the game of naming a Judge John Hodgman episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, where we also just launched the MaximumFun.org Facebook group. You can get in on that at Facebook.com slash MaximumFun.org with the dot as a dot, not spelled out. And you can also follow John and I on Twitter. I am at Jesse Thorne.

John is at Hodgman. You can discuss the show in our forum at forum.maximumfun.org. In the Maximum Fun Reddit page with other fans at reddit.com slash r slash Maximum Fun. Lots of folks doing that lately. And, you know, on Facebook, on Twitter with the hashtag JJHo. lately. And, you know, on Facebook, on Twitter with the hashtag JJ Ho. We appreciate anywhere that you are engaging more deeply with our program. It's fun to see people talking with each other about it. And we're always grateful when folks are spreading the word. So thank you much to everybody. I share Jesse's thanks. But if all that social media stuff feels complicated

and annoying to you, blow it off and send us each $10,000 and it'll be fine. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of ways to engage with the program, from talking about it using the special hashtag to sending us non-consecutive, unmarked bills. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFund.org slash JJHo. There is all the information that you need to submit your case right there. You can also follow Judge John Hodgman in the pages of the New York Times Magazine.

Well, Jesse, here's the thing. That's not going to be true anymore. Oh, I had no idea. New York Times Magazine, which is still one of my most beloved magazines, has changed editors-in-chief. And my understanding is that they are no longer doing the page in which my column net appears. I ended up really enjoying doing that little column. And I thank everyone who wrote in specifically for it and read it. And I may try to do it somewhere else.

But for now, the last print episode will appear on September 28th, if I'm remembering correctly. Oh, you got a few weeks left. Get on the bandwagon. Wait, like one week left. One week left. Yeah, on behalf of the great Mr. Judge John Hodgman, I'm Jesse Thorne. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Court is adjourned. Maximumfun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.