Judge John Hodgman - Dischord is Now in Session

Episode Date: April 24, 2013

Andrea and Scott bring their dispute before the Judge: must singalongs be conducted with careful attention to pitch and key? Expert witnesses Jonathan Coulton and David Rees weigh in.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Discord is now in session. Andrea brings the case against her husband, Scott. Andrea loves to sing along with her favorite songs by artists from Maroon 5 to Jonathan Colton, but doesn't think it's important to be especially careful about the notes or the key. Her husband, Scott, says if she's going to sing, she needs to sing the right way. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. This court enjoys youthful hyperbole more than anything in all the known universe. But Tyler is deranged and not merely because he is talking about Maroon 5. Even if our splintered culture is still allowed for such a thing, how could Maroon 5 be the band of his generation?

Not only have I, a 41-year-old, heard of this rock band, it is also a rock band signed to a major label that is played on terrestrial radio. That's as old-timey and esoterica genre these days as steampunk bluegrass which i am confident exists even i know that the band of this generation is some nine-year-old danish dj emailing back and forth uh earl sweatshirt fleetwood mac mashup with a 29 year old cambodian canadian female banjoist in winnipeg that he met on soundcloud which i am also confident exists Winnipeg that he met on SoundCloud, which I'm also confident exists. Jesse, bail them in. No, Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth,

the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has perfect pitch, just like his Martha's Vineyard golfing buddy, Chevy Chase? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Scott and Andrea, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you make an educated guess as to the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Hint, you are not time travelers,

so you will not know the precise answer, but you can make an educated guess. Andrea, an educated guess. An educated guess is that it is a review or some column written about music in the New York Times. Interesting. Scott? Interesting but not correct. But Scott? interesting but not correct but scott um it it sounds it sounds like uh neil stevenson uh but i i can't think of him actually saying anything like that in any of his books

but has the same kind of language particularly referencing steampunk bluegrass well your flattery will get you somewhere in the court, for that is indeed the words not of Neal Stephenson, but of Judge John Hodgman in the forthcoming Judge John Hodgman Rules column in the New York Times magazine. So in a way, Andrea, you were very close. I should have said the magazine. In this forthcoming column, a residence administrator at a college takes issue with her 21-year-old student employee, Tyler, who claims that not only is Maroon 5 his favorite band, but the best band

and the band of his generation. You will recall from my ruling as I entered the courtroom that Tyler is deranged. But Andrea, I'm glad that you got so close to guessing because I am almost completely prepared to grant you an immediate summary judgment in your favor anyway. For, if I understand it correctly, you like to sing and your husband wants you to stop singing. Is that correct? It's not that he doesn't want me to sing. When I sing, I sing like when Tom Cruise is in the movie.

You know the movie I'm talking about. He's driving along and singing really loud. Jerry Maguire. Jerry Maguire. Jerry Maguire. That's one. So he's driving along, and he's trying to find a song on the radio that he just wants to sing out loud and strong.

And he sings along to Free Falling. So I like to sing. I just like to sing along. I'm not saying I'm a singer. I just like to sing along, like in the car, in the house, in the shower. I just like to sing along, like in the car, in the house, in the shower. So he, his, I'm bringing the case because he will say things like, if you're. I was just going to say nothing you've described is out of the ordinary for most normal humans. Most normal humans like to sing like Tom Cruise and Jerry Maguire.

So where is the trouble? Jerry Maguire. So where is the trouble? He says that if I am singing, I should be able, I should be singing on pitch and on key, which key, I don't really know. I kind of know what he means, but if you would, not really. So, because if not, it is offensive to, or yes, offensive to the person that wrote the song. Scott, is Andrea misstating your position? Yes, she is. Will you? No. Andrea?

That wasn't me. No, no, no, no. Is there another wife in the courtroom who is thoughtfully signing? I understand your position, Andrea. Let me hear Scott state his position in his own words. I feel that if she's going to sing along with some recording or with somebody else who is singing and there's other people in the room, she should make a reasonable effort to match the same key as the other performance. And why do you feel that way? I feel that way both for the respect

of the other person performing, if there's another person singing in the room, and for the respect of the people who have to listen. Are you guys having family hoedowns? Why is there so much singing going on in your house where people are coming over and you're all singing together? Are you a member of a cult? Close enough. We have five kids.

I see. So when you're talking about another person in the room, you're talking about your children. Or myself. You don't count. You understand that, sir. How many? You have five kids is what is their age range six to twelve and you are trying to bar your wife from singing in front of you or your kids unless she gets better at singing i just i know that she can sing well because she shows evidence where she does sing particularly particularly songs that she knows really, really, really well. She will match pitch really well with those.

It's just other ones that she doesn't know as well that she doesn't even try to match pitch. And so I just ask that she try to match pitch. But you answered a different question than the one I asked. You answered the question, does your wife sing well? I asked you, you would like me to prohibit your wife from singing in front of you or your children or other humans unless she does a better job. I would like her to make a better effort at trying to match the pitch when she sings in front of other people. Now, this canard about it being offensive to the singer-songwriter,

is that something you truly believe, or is that something you're trying to use to lend more gravity to an argument, which is a reasonable one, if somewhat monstrous, to make, which is you don't like to listen to your wife sing badly? I believe it a little bit. listen to your wife sing badly. I believe it a little bit. To be honest, I would not have brought that up as a supporting argument for my own case. I know she likes bringing it up because it makes me sound bad. But I do believe that. Well, is it something that you said? It is something I said, yes. Okay. And so make the case for me, if you will,

that it is the requirement of the singer, presumably whether or not they are surrounded by your children, to honor the song and the songwriter by singing it correctly. Or have I just made the case for you? No. I love to sing. It seems to me that... I love to sing. It seems to me, go on.

That if you really care about the song, that you would try to sing it as correctly as possible. At least, you know, there's a reasonable interpretation going on that you can bring your own personal effort in, but if the recording that you're singing along with is in the key of E and you're singing in the key of B flat, that's creating a dissonance that the song had never intended to have involved. Well, wait a minute.

If you change the key of the song, aren't you just transposing the notes to a key that's easier for you to sing? That's fine if you're not singing along with the recording. If you're singing along with the recording, then you're getting parallel tritones going along. Oh, yeah, well, parallel tritones. How do you answer to that, Andrea? Parallel

tritones. I studied Counterpoint, and I know what you're talking about. I'm excited to say, and I agree with you, they're disgusting. They are discordance to the ear. So can I speak? Well, you certainly can't sing, so you better speak. All right. Well, I didn't like that laugh at all. I don't either. My husband, I love him very, very, very much.

He's a music professor and he teaches music theory, which to me is kind of like a foreign language. I'm a smart girl. I went to an Ivy League school, not in New Haven, but I went to one. I I feel like I don't know like if he seems says things like the key of e the key of b flat I don't know I don't really care I feel like I'm just singing and so this tritone all that I I it doesn't I don't understand it and for me to sit there and try to understand it and then try to sing, it's like something that I, it's like a foreign language. That's all I can say to you.

I understand what you're saying, but saying that music is like a foreign language to you would not excuse you necessarily, for example, from screaming along the words of a Gerard Depardieu movie when you don't know French. Right, but I'm sorry, I misspoke. I'm not saying music is a foreign language. The language of music theory, like A major versus A minor, and syncopation and all those things. Sure, we all understand that that's the way

your husband Scott shows off to your children and makes himself sound smart all the time. But yes, any lay person would understand if you're singing along to a song, and you're not singing in tune with that song with that backing track, it's going to sound at best different at worst bad. Is that not so? That is so, but I believe that most people, when they sing along to a song, are just kind of singing their heart out. I understand, but you are sharing space with other human beings. Let me ask you this question. If it's a particular song, regardless of whatever heavy vocab your hubby is trying to drop on you,

are you saying that you don't want to sing in tune to the song because of the principle of you want to sound as bad as Tom Cruise? Or is it the case that you find it difficult to sing in tune to a song? you find it difficult to sing in tune to a song? I feel like when I am singing along that I sound good to myself and that I'm singing well, and I don't feel like trying to learn how to sing it perfectly. Yes. I feel like that's hard to do. And, and then that wrecks the whole point of just singing along with joy in your heart.

What are the circumstances, Scott, in which Andrea will sing along to a song and expose you and your children to her terrible, terrible singing? If one of our kids is playing Call Me Maybe on the violin, and she will start, she'll be in the kitchen. We have a big open house, and so she'll be in the kitchen cooking and try to sing along to Call Me Maybe, but be not even close to the same key as one of our daughters is playing the violin. I have two questions, one for each of you. Scott, why are you making your child play that terrible song? And Andrea, if your child is trying to practice the violin, why are you singing and distracting your child from learning this terrible song? Go for it, Scott.

It was actually the choice of, I think it was a theme i was playing at the time she likes the song i actually kind of like the song myself sure well it's got all those hot tritones i got some sweet syncopation it it avoids the sin of parallel motion yes it does but andrea your daughter i don't care if you have an open living plan. If someone's trying to practice violin, why are you singing along? Okay, that is, I feel like, an anomaly in an isolated case because it's happened one or two times. I feel like, I know I'm just, let me finish. I know I'm just, let me finish.

I feel like when he is being most doing this is if we're all in the car together and a song is on and I'm singing it, which happens far more often than Athena practicing violin. And by the way, when she plays it, she's not playing it in tune. Yeah, but she's a child. And she's trying. She's a child and she's trying.

All right, thank you very much, Scott. I was making your case for you. Now, we have two audio experts here, audio expert witnesses, to evaluate your singing and to offer some insight. Can I ask them a couple questions? No, you need to sing. I understand that you are a fan of Jonathan Colton. So may we first call to the stand expert witness Jonathan Colton? Yay, applause, applause, yay.

Well, that's... I didn't know if I was supposed to be very, I didn't know if I was supposed to be like super, I don't know how loud I was supposed to talk. You're doing fine. You're doing fine. I understand. I've met him before,

but he probably doesn't remember me. It's clear that you have a hard time evaluating the sound of your voice outside of your head. Thank you. So we all appreciate your infirmity and hold nothing against you you say you have met jonathan colton before where was where did you meet jonathan colton before i was i we live outside of indianapolis and he was opening for they Might Be Giants at a theater called The Vogue in Broad Ripple. And we were walking. We went to dinner before. And we're both Jonathan Colton fans.

And I always used to enter Vogue from the back, from this back alley. So we were walking there. And I'm like, that's Jonathan Colton. He just went into that van. That's Jonathan Colton, for sure. And Scott's like, no, it's not. Don't be a stalker. But Scott's like, you're talking too loud and out of tune.

So then we walked in the back entrance right when he walked out of the van. And I was like, hey, I'm Andrea. This is my husband, Scott. And then I couldn't say anything else because I was like, what? Do you remember this, Jonathan? Do you remember being stalked by people? In Broad Ripple, Indiana? Broad R this, Jonathan? Do you remember being stalked by people? In broad, ripple Indiana? Broad, ripple Indiana? I certainly remember.

I remember playing at the Vogue. I have a vague memory of running into them, but I might be conflating it with another time that I ran into somebody else. I don't know. Well, you missed your chance to sing a Jonathan Colton song to Jonathan Colton. And then we're here with Jonathan Colton.

I appreciate that you are trying to put this off as long as possible, but you will sing along to a Jonathan Colton song for Jonathan Colton to hear and therefore to evaluate whether or not he is offended as the singer-songwriter, as your husband might predict. So which song are you going to sing by Jonathan Colton? You're asking me? No, get your daughter. You're asking me to request a song for him to play?

Or am I playing it on my computer? It may be that maybe your ears don't work in either direction. I am saying you are going to sing a Jonathan Colton song so that we can evaluate how offended he's going to be. Okay. This is not typical because the music is going to be really far away and not blasting really loud. Just,

just let it go. Let it go. Hello. That's what I do. That was the most controlled letting it go that I've ever felt. Oh, now, Scott, I don't like your laughing so much. Scott, you mute. Okay, this is the intro.

Pathological monsters, cried the terrified mathematician. Every one of them a splinter in my eye. I hate the pinot space and the coke curve. I hate the can't-car-turn-reset. The Savinsky gasket Makes me wanna cry Andrea, can you hear me? Yes. Okay.

I think you did a very nice job. Jonathan? Yes. First reactions? I think Andrea did a fine job. You know, it's always hard when a lady has to sing along with a man, because generally different keys work better for different genders. But Andrea was, in this case, singing along in key,

and for the most part, the right pitches. And I am not in any way offended. So Scott, was this a typical or atypical performance of Andrea's? Was she up all night rehearsing to get this right? No, I would say this is an example of her trying to sing it correctly. I know she has that ability, but then there's other times when she does not try. And succeeding. No, she was trying and succeeding.

Absolutely. Within the parameters of a non-professional singer. I think that was a very successful sing-along. Absolutely. To Mandelbrot set by Jonathan Colton. Available at JonathanColton.com. Andrea, is that typical or atypical? It is typical.

I will say there are times if I am in the shower, in the bathroom, and it's really loud, I'll sing really loud. But I feel like Skype's going to mess that up. And maybe that is when it is more offensive. Okay. But you're in the shower and you're by yourself. No, we have a big bathroom. He's probably getting ready or standing in there. Is your bathroom also part of your open plan living?

Our closet. Yes. It kind of, well, our closet is at the other end of the bathroom. So you have to walk through the bathroom to kind of get dressed or get any of your stuff. Okay. Now you also have another song that you have prepared for sing-along, and I'm bringing in another audio expert. And this audio expert witness is David Reese, an expert karaoke singer, and I would dare say an expert on the very song you're about to sing. The court calls to the stand David Reese. I'm here. Hi, everybody. everybody hi david how are you i'm doing all right now have you listened so far to what's been going on in this courtroom uh yeah

i have do you have anything you want to say at this point before we go to the next uh the next demonstration of the evidence well i think that the the plaintiff and the defendant have set up a false dyad. For the benefit of our listeners, that's a very esoteric music term. It goes back to 17th century lute tablature. But you were going to say, what is a false dyad in your words, David? Well, they've set up, and it's actually very common in music, I think, this tension or this supposed opposition between authenticity, emotional authenticity, and technical proficiency.

And so, I mean, I don't think much of either of their arguments, but I'm here to just enjoy some music. All right. And do you have a request that you'd like to give? Any shout out, a request for the singer? Well, I love karaoke and I think karaoke is the perfect, you know, it's the perfect testing ground for these expressions of authenticity and varying degrees of proficiency. One of my favorite karaoke

songs is Brandy, You're a Fine Girl by the 70s band called Looking Glass. All right, we'll take it over to Andrew who's going to be performing Brandy, You're a Fine Girl by Looking Glass. Take it away, Andrea. About their home. Take it away, Andrea. She serves them whiskey and wine. The sailor says, Brandon, you're a fine girl. May I stop there?

Can you stop there, please, Andrea? Andrea, you are more or less on key to my amateur ears. But I would not say, in this case, that you were letting go. And in fact, it sort of sounded like... Because I'm afraid it's going to mess up the sound. No, I understand. It sort of sounded like maybe you had fallen asleep. I agree. Because I'm afraid it's going to mess up the sound. So I'll let go if you want me to let go. But I can let go... Jonathan, what do you think? Should she let go? I think Andrea, if you have a way that you can step away

from the microphone so you're not singing directly into it, that might reduce your inhibitions and also protect our ears from loudness. Thank you for the technical weigh-in, Jonathan. David Reese, for the emotional weigh-in, do you think Andrea should be able to? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Come on. Let's do this. All right yeah, I mean, absolutely. Come on. Let's, let's, let's do this. All right. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to, I'm going to set the phone down or my microphone down and step away and play the song and sing, um, loudly, but I will not have my

headphones on. So I'm going to have to come back. And if it sounds horrible, just mute it for a while. All right. Okay. I always love disclaimers. Before someone lets go. Let's go. There's a port in a western bay. A hundred ships a day, sailors time away, talk about their homes. And there's a girl in this harbor town, and she works laying whiskey down. Brandy, pass another round.

She serves them whiskey and wine. The sailor says, Brandy, you're a fine girl. What a good wife you would be. Mops could steal a sailor from the sea. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. David Reese. Emotion judging. Go.

I think we're getting there. I think she's still a little self-conscious. I think she should get a little bit drunk and do it again. I will say what was interesting on the technical side was Jonathan and I were noting this to each other. It sounded like she was actually kind of harmonizing

with the melody instead of really hitting the top line melody. So maybe she's actually, the problem is musically, she's too sophisticated. Her ear is so finely tuned that she leaps naturally to a harmony rather than staying with the melody with the rest of us plebes. Yeah, she's like Charlie Parker. She's hearing intervals above the traditional

intervals that are played in Western music. So she's got all these flat 11ths and sharp 13ths. Right, Scott? Uh-huh. Yes. I always thought that she was advanced. Alright, so the question is does she go on to Hollywood?

Jonathan, what's your vote? To Hollywood? I wouldn't recommend going to Hollywood. You know, you can do this anywhere nowadays. Jonathan, we actually don't need your internet utopian evangelizing right now. Sorry, sorry. your internet utopian evangelizing right now. Sorry, sorry.

Well, you know, I think, if I may speak frankly, please, I recognize in Andrea's voice and the way that she is addressing the song, a kind of singing that I have heard before, which is that, and I understand what Scott is getting at, is that sometimes she is singing in key. When she lets go a little bit, she's

straying a little bit from the melody. And, you know, this comes down to what you would call someone's ear for singing and the ability to sort of match up your voice with what's happening in the music. And so it sounds to me, and I've heard this before in other singers, is that the more exuberant she's getting and the more she lets go, the less technically proficient she is. And I would point out that both of these songs are in terrible keys for her. They are both too low for her to sing comfortably, which is why she is finding it hard to sort of lock in when she starts singing a little more loudly. Do you think, from a technical point of view, that she could, never mind should,

but could reasonably train herself to sing better, even when she is at her most enthused? You know, that's hard to, that's a difficult diagnosis to make. I think that everyone can benefit somewhat from training and from practice, but, you know, it certainly depends on the instrument that you're born with. All that said, I'll let David speak to this, but I think exuberant singing off-key is preferable to lackadaisical singing that is spot on. Thank you, Jonathan. David, you said that she should get drunk. I have to say the first round of Brandy, you're a fine girl sounded as though she had had a couple of glasses of Hennessy and was now kind

of laying her head down on the kitchen table. Yeah, that's true. Aside from that, does she go to Hollywood or not? I guess is what what i'm saying do we order her not to sing exuberantly well this gets back to my original problem with this whole case which is that i feel like andrea's worried that there's this tension between competence and exuberance and that somehow if she learned a little bit more about singing and how to control her voice it would somehow make it harder for her to cut loose and lose herself in the music. Whereas actually, the better you are as a musician, the even more pleasure you take from cutting loose. And so I don't think it would be too bad for her just to take a couple of vocal lessons

and then go to a karaoke bar and really, really cut loose and sing with confidence. And don't let her husband come and sit in the back of the bar and judge her. Let him babysit all those kids they have. Sounds good. Well, actually, it does sound good to you, Scott, because David Reese is basically agreeing with your point of view, which is to say that Andrea can and should better her voice so that she does not sing exuberantly and out of key

no but that's i beg i beg beg your pardon judge but no no i appreciate it please the the conclusion is the same but the logic is different i'm saying that she should better her voice not because she's disrespecting looking glass or or anything like that but just because she will find singing more fun. She will actually, it will further her own exuberance, her sense of self-negation and just getting lost in the ecstasy of the moment. It'll make it more fun for her. I don't care about Scott and his feelings

and whether he's having a good time. So she should become a better singer to please your husband? No. Just making sure I understood. She should become a better singer to please herself. Andrea, does that argument mean anything to you? It does, but not in a good way because my joy is in singing along. I don't want to sing like karaoke. I have no desire to sing it by myself. Like I'm going to sing along loudly with them at a high volume.

Does it mean anything to you? I mean, I think that we all saw, and I said this respectfully here, or didn't see, I don't have synesthesia. We all heard your voice change once you started to sing more exuberantly and indeed technically you were not quite as adept as the first take when you were really being very careful not to blow us out with your incredible power do you do you think that if you were able to uh learn to sing exuberantly and as loudly along with your favorite songs, but more technically adept that that would increase your enjoyment or does that not matter to you? As long as I would not be distracted by trying to be so technically perfect that I wasn't able to be as enthusiastic. perfect that I wasn't able to be as enthusiastic. I understand. Scott, you heard what Jonathan and David said. The situation is that your wife can sing admirably in key when she is not letting go.

She has, as you stated, some difficulty doing the same when she is letting go. Why do you want a wife who never lets go? I like it when she lets go, but I agree with David that if she could still be matching pitch while letting go, it'll be much more enjoyable both for her and for me. What would you like me to order if I find in your favor, Andrea? In my favor, that I could sing anything, anytime, and that he would never have to say anything about my pitch or my key. Scott, what would you want me to order if I find in your favor? That Andrea learns how to sing exuberantly and in pitch.

How do you propose that she do that? She could take some voice lessons. I teach at a nearby university. She could take voice lessons from one of my colleagues. I see. But not from you. No, I don't think that would be a good idea for many. No, I don't think so either.

I just want to make sure we all agree on that. I think I know. I think I've heard everything I need to hear in order to make my decision. I'm going to whistle my way into chambers. And when I have a decision, I will return. Baby got back. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Andrea, I don't know whether you will win this case,

but that spirited rendition of Brandy convinced me that you will win at life. So congratulations to that. Thank you. How are you feeling about your legal chances? I feel good. I feel like I wasn't able to let loose as normal because of, you know, I wasn't in, it wasn't, I couldn't turn it up loud enough and that, but I feel really good because I think that emotional exuberance and being able to express yourself and feel good about it, because I do feel good when I sing, is most important. But who knows? Scott, how do you feel? I'm feeling pretty good. I felt that one of the expert witnesses basically stated my stance on the whole situation, though, as he pointed out, I was being rather selfish for my reasons, as opposed to being more concerned about the increase in enjoyment than Andrea would definitely have if she was able to be singing in sync with the recording while being as exuberant as she can be. Scott, as a music theory professor yourself, would you say it's one of your primary

responsibilities or a secondary responsibility to prevent people from enjoying music? I would say it's a secondary. Primary is just to torture musicians themselves. I would say it's secondary. Primary is just to torture musicians themselves. We'll see how this one turns out. We'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's verdict. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

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Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Brandy, you're a fine girl. Do-do-dee-see-dee-ba-dee-ski-da-lee-dee-da-da-ba-doop-ba-ba-doop. I guess what I can say, Andrea, is that at least you're not scat singing, which is the worst kind of singing. And I do also have to say a couple of hard truths to you. This is something I never enjoy saying on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And it's hard to say it even now which is that your husband is right

in a narrow sense in a narrow sense i don't like saying that but in a narrow sense it is absolutely true because we heard uh you sing in a controlled way and you sang uh in a in on key and then you really cut loose uh or even you know according to our audio expert, David Reese, he kind of put you at half cutting loose. And there was a appreciable difference in the quality of your singing, not the quality of your singing, but the tone of your singing and your pitch and your ability to sing on key. And so the facts of the case as stated by your husband are true. And furthermore, I also, like Jesse, appreciated very much the great spirit that you brought to that second performance. And I could tell that you were beginning to enjoy yourself more than perhaps

any other time on this podcast, which was great. But I cannot lie to you because I am your judge. It was not something that I would want to listen to for a long time. So in that sense, I say again, your husband is right. And I'm sorry to give you that hard truth. Now, it could be that you could improve your singing through lessons. But that suggests, or some other kind of professional guidance, but that suggests a conundrum. Because A, it may be that what you really love about that style of singing is utter abandon and not thinking about training and lessons. is utter abandon and not thinking about training and lessons. And B, to take lessons to improve your singing so that you could sing at that high volume and with that full enthusiasm,

and as you say, letting go, would be to suggest that your husband had a point, which is almost an intolerable thing. All of this said, I am going to find in your favor. The reason is that it gives you pleasure to sing. And the pleasure of singing is not something that should ever be diminished, especially not by an academic, especially not by an academic who is your husband. We have, those of us who have spouses, have spouses or partners or roommates or friends who have habits that annoy us. For example, I'm going to say needlepoint and I'll leave it there just in case my wife is actually listening. And it is part of the contract of marriage to put up with annoying habits, but within reason. This is not a habit, but a pleasure that you take. I do believe that you take specific pleasure in singing badly at the top of your lungs

without thinking about whether or not it's good or bad. And I won't permit you to do that. I want you to understand, and I want you to take these home truths to heart, that this is something you need to do in cognizance of the humans around you. You might not want to jump into a full-throated version of Call Me Maybe just because your daughter picks up the violin. And I would be especially wary about doing your full free-falling act when you're in a car with windows rolled up and a captive audience. That is not a matter of offending a songwriter. That is not a matter of whether or not you enjoy it. That is a matter of common courtesy to other human beings around you.

And so I do find in your favor and in doing so i hope it will allow you a the pleasure that you enjoy singing in this manner and be the opportunity and freedom from scrutiny from uh hubby mFame over there to consider whether or not eventually on your own terms and in your own time, taking a vocal class or other ways trying to improve your singing even at that level might be the right thing

for you because I do imagine that it would only increase your enjoyment of singing which is an important enjoyment that we should all enjoy. And by finding Fofuli in your favor, I make that decision utterly severable from your husband's dumb opinion and wholly in your hands. But until then, I ask you to rock on with consideration to the humans around you. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Andrea, how are you feeling? I feel great. That's what I wanted. And by the way, the judge is right, is that I just enjoy belting it out at the top of my lungs. And I sometimes don't really care if it's on key. But you understand that that's a private pleasure. Do you know what I mean? Like you can't be forcing that on other people in closed spaces all the time. No, I would not.

No, I agree with you that I will only do it in private. Suddenly I feel like we're talking about something else. Scott, how do you feel? I feel like I'm probably going to have to invest in some good player earplugs. But I'm going to do it in private. Yeah. Scott, you know what?

I order you to not be a jerk. Don't be a know-it-all jerk, Scott. But I'm happy that my wife is being encouraged in her enthusiasms. Well, thank you guys both for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And thanks again to Jonathan Colton and David Reese, our expert audio witnesses. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more

is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-H.

Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-b-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Brandy, you're the fine girl. Skiddley-dee-dop-doo-dah-dee-dee-doop-dop-doo-doo-doo.

Scat singing all around the place. I'm singing and scatting in chambers. Judge Hodgman. Judge Hodgman. Judge Hodgman. Skitty-dee-dee-dee-dee-bee-boo-bop. Judge Hodgman. What?

What is it? What? Excuse me. Was I bothering you again? Well, I just want to clear the docket, if you don't mind. Oh, I don't mind at all. Okay. Here's something from Kristen.

I have a small dispute for the docket. Can you sing it? Jesse, can you sing it? Brandy? I have a small dispute for the docket. My husband John and I were hiking in the Columbia River Gorge, and I was struggling against a steep incline. I commented, next time we should take a flat hike.

This is very difficult to listen to. Not that we're recording any of this for an audience. Obviously, right now we're private and in chambers, but... My husband said that that was impossible because no such thing as a flat hike. I said, what about walking through a flat forest? And he said that was only a walk. I resent the idea of downgrading a hike on a plane

or in the desert to a walk, but he maintains that a hike has to be uphill. Who is right? I think your switch to a sort of Gilbert and Sullivan style at the end was probably what best served the material. I did a little patter singing. It's true. It's true. A little patter. Kristen is wondering, do you have to go up an incline in order for a walk to be considered a hike right because that's what that's what her husband is telling her right yeah for example what about a long walk in the forest that happens to

be flat are you are you explaining this for the uh for the audience the way an opera has subtitles underneath it. Because I think I just sung that. Number one, they're super titles. They're above it. Excuse me. And number two, yes. Yes, I am. All right. So here's the thing about this.

The husband says, no, a hike is only uphill. It's tough and it's manly. hike is only uphill. It's tough and it's manly. Your walk through the forest is an unstrenuous flatland lady thing. That's something a deer could do. Yeah, exactly.

Husbands should buy dictionaries. Do you know what I'm saying? It's true that the transitive verb to hike when not referring to walking, when you're hiking something, that always refers to lifting it up, like a wage hike for example, which is a mythical thing that never happens. And I also understand that most husbands love to separate activities into tough, difficult, uphill things and unstringuous flatland lady things, and then tell everyone they know the secret difference between them, and hold that over them, even their own wives.

and hold that over them, even their own wives. The language, as it is currently defined, differs with husbands. In outdoorsy, naturey terms, all dictionaries that I consulted basically treat the term hike as synonymous with walk, amble, tramp, and, of course, my favorite, perambulate. It may be that language will change through usage eventually,

but I suspect that by will change through usage eventually, but I suspect that by the time the language changes this husband might have fallen off a ledge accidentally. In the meantime, you can use the UK distinction, whereas all hikes and walks are rambles, which is

awesome, and specific mountaineering-style hikes are hill walks or fell walks. At least that's what the internet tells me. I don't know. Are you aware of this thing that English people do where they go on a vacation and the vacation is just walking through other people's cow fields? Yeah, I've done it. Until they get to the next. That sounds great. It's fantastic because they have an intricate network of

footpaths that have been public property since before there was private property and they're maintained. And if you own a farm in the English countryside and it has a public footpath through it, you have to keep it clear and you have to build or create

a style. A wooden staircase over the wall or fence of your farm or some author of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, whom I was profiling at the time. And she took me on a ramble with her partner, Colin Greenland, through the Peak District of England, which became my very favorite place. And at one point, it was like following a secret treasure map because she had the ordinance map, and she's like, well, we've got to walk up this

cobblestone street here and then apparently there's going to be a gap in the wall. And there, sure enough, there was like a secret passage in this wall and then we walked through this wall and found ourselves in a small enclosed field enclosed by a high stone wall with two gigantic

white bulls standing on either end of it with about three feet between them and the path went right between the bulls and it was terrifying and fantastic and we all survived until we found the other gap in the wall and i gotta say if your dumb husband doesn't find that flat walk betwixt bulls strenuous and manly? I have no use for him. Here's something from Nolan, and this is, I think, representative of several emails we got about, I don't know if you remember this, from the case Gas, Grass, or Justice.

I actually pronounce it Gas, Grass, or Just Ass. I actually pronounce it gas, grass, or just ass. We discussed it. When we were clearing the docket, we had a case where someone's grandparents or parents had been booked into a hotel room, which they later found out had been advertised as being haunted. And they were wondering if that should have been disclosed when the hotel room was assigned. It wasn't at the time. Here's what Nolan wrote. I'm a first-year law student and felt compelled to bring to your attention the case of Stambovsky

v. Ackley, decided in New York Supreme Court Appellate Division in 1991. Stambovsky had purchased a house from Ackley and then later found out that not only was the house allegedly haunted, but that Ackley had profited from the house's reputation in a variety of ways and concealed this fact during the transaction. The court allowed Stambovsky to rescind the contract because the house's haunted reputation negatively impacted its value. For the purposes of the sale, the haunting was a material fact. What? Yeah, in this decision, it literally contains this sentence. Whether the source of the spectral apparition seen by defendant Seller is parapsychic or parapsychogenic,

having reported their presence in both a national publication and the local press, defendant is estopped to deny their existence, and as a matter of law, the house is haunted. First of all, Jesse, for people who don't understand paranormal legalese, the difference between parapsychic and psychogenic is that parapsychic is uphill, and psychogenic is flat. There's also a number of interesting ghost puns in here.

Here's a selection from it. The notion that a haunting is a condition which can and should be ascertained upon reasonable inspection of the premises is a hobgoblin, which should be exercised from the body of legal precedent and laid quietly to rest. Whoa. They should give this guy a sitcom.

I feel like John Oliver listening to Andy Saltzman make puns on the bugle. I also noticed that he wrote, from the perspective of a person in the position of plaintiff herein, a very practical problem arises with respect to the discovery of a paranormal phenomenon. Quote, who are you going to call? As a title song to the movie Ghostbusters asks. You know what? This is Judge Rubin who made this opinion. Judge J. Rubin.

And this is what happens. You understand? This is the perversion of justice that happens when lawyers try to be funny. First of all, they make puns. Second of all, in the service of entertaining themselves, they allow a house to be deemed haunted as a matter of law. And money now has to change hands because of this guy's desire to make terrible puns. Now look, I don't practice law, right? I don't pretend that I know how to. I'm just making jokes

around the law here. And you notice that none of my rulings are actually binding, because I don't know what these people do afterwards. I hope that they do what I tell them to do, but I have no power over them. I find this whole case to be mischievous, disruptive, and worst of all, full of puns, and I toss it out of law. Ghosts don't exist is the other thing. Ghosts don't exist. Some lawyers are funny, though. What about John Larroquette and Markie Post? is the other thing. Ghosts don't exist. Some lawyers are funny, though. What about John Larroquette and Marky Post? That's true.

I take it back. I'm estopped from denying that John Larroquette is funny. Our thanks this week to Frank... I'm going to say Mago? Magoff? Magoff. Magoug.

Magoch. Mickoug. Magoug. Magough. Mick Giyug for suggesting our title. If you want to get in on the title suggesting action, like us on Facebook at Judge John Hodgman and suggest your own title for a future episode. When we ask, because we usually we ask on Facebook and we use the best one. a future episode when we ask, because we usually we ask on Facebook and we use the best one. And of course, if you are not a lover, but a fighter, I want to hear from you. Please send me personally your disputes by emailing Hodgman at Maximum Fund dot org or going to Maximum Fund dot org slash J.J. Ho. And I will review each of your disputes personally. And if they are appropriate for the

podcast, you'll find out about it. And if they're appropriate for the pages of the New York Times magazine, you will find out about that as well. And if they are full of puns or 17 paragraphs long, you'll never know because I won't write back to you. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for

Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.