Judge John Hodgman - Divan Judgment

Episode Date: July 27, 2016

Glenys files suit against her husband, Jim. Glenys would like to buy a couch for their living room but Jim thinks couches are too uncomfortable. He thinks a daybed is a better solution for living room seating. With Guest Bailiff Monte Belmonte!  Tickets for the Judge John Hodgman Live Justice Tour are still available! Go to MaximumFun.org or JohnHodgman.com/Tour for links and information!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your summertime, fun time guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte from WRSI in Northampton, Massachusetts, in for Jesse Thorne. This week, Devon judgment. Glennis files suit against her husband, Jim. Glennis would like to buy a couch for their living room, but so far, she bank at no satisfaction. Jim is not ready to dive in just yet and thinks couches are too uncomfortable. He thinks a daybed would bring sectional healing

to their living room and be more comfortable. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can settee this debate. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and issues the obscure cultural reference. Oh, Monty. I can't do it. Who wrote that?

Wasn't me. No, it was. It was you, Monty? It was. Sorry. I've never broken before the cultural reference before, but I had to. Alright, here it comes. Despair

came knocking at my door, and I let her in for a while. She sat on the couch, in the end, smoking. She said nothing. Suddenly, I felt tired. I began to feel tired, and all of the sudden, the room seemed dizzy, Suddenly I felt tired. I began to feel tired. And all of the sudden, the room seemed dizzy and dirty.

Despair came knocking. And I let her in for a while. Make a pun out of that, Monty, and swear him in. Glenis, Jim, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you the Ottoman Emperor or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that all of his many,

many couches are so precious to him that they're all covered in plastic like my nana's? I do. I do. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Glennis and Jimmy, you may be seated. Before I give you a chance for an immediate summary in your favor, I want to say hello. It's great to talk to good time, summertime, bailiff Monty Belmonte. It means summertime is here. But I am I am frustrated because I normally I would be talking to Monty in the Pioneer Valley of Massachusetts at WRSI the river or in the in the state of Maine from uh WERU our sister station up there but I'm instead I'm alone in my little, my little chamber room here in New York City. I got drugged back to civilization for a very good reason.

I get to do a little acting tomorrow. But I miss my summertime. I'm not on vacation. Work, work, work, work, work. Oh, despair came knocking and sat on my couch. Now, but anyway, it's really nice to talk to you, Monty. How are you? How's everything there in Massachusetts?

I miss having you here. It feels like not summer when I'm not with you in person, in the flesh. We'll do that real soon. But meanwhile, I got Glenis and Jim sitting down over there

on their whatever furniture they've got at the moment. Glenis and Jim, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can you name the piece of culture that I quoted directly and somewhat depressingly as I entered the courtroom? Jim, Glennis has brought you to this court to face my obvious and in this case, enhanced wrath. You may choose to guess or force Glennis to guess first if you think you you will get some benefit from that what are you gonna do jim i i i'll give it a shot you give it a shot yeah okay let's guess

is it i mean do i have to name a specific can i just name a person is that cool uh why don't you make your guess and and we'll just we'll enter that into the guest hole and then we'll check it out later go ahead make your guess my guess is Edgar Allan Poe is that how that's pronounced I never knew that I always thought it was like Poe

but that's good it's good to know good to know alright put that into the guest hole Monty. It's in. All right. Glynnis. Great name, by the way.

Much more interesting than Jim. I agree. Thank you. What is your guess? I'm going to guess it's from an Edith Wharton novel. Okay. Which one? Pet Sematary?

We'll say House of Mirth. Oh, okay. Didn't she write Pet Sematary? Yes. Monty, I'm asking this. Sorry. All right. I just read Pet Sematary,

so I just figured that must be what you're talking about. All right. So, Monty, put that guess in the guess hole. Another answer has been entered into the put that guess in the guess hole. Another answer has

been entered into the guest hole. No guess hole. It's a terrible name. There's a whole new idea that the guesses are going into a

hole and then I will take the guesses out. That's not going to work because it just sounds like guest hole. Edgar Allan Poe.

That's the first guess. And the second guess. Edith Wharton. guess. And the second guess. Edith Wharton. Yeah. And they should be in a hole because not merely both, but all guesses are wrong,

though they were both imaginative. But neither of you guessed the famous and beguiling and sort of tragic and inspiring, still living singer-songwriter Daniel Johnston, who's famous for writing very weird and somewhat upsetting and also sometimes very cheerful songs and recording them on a take-this-at-debt for a long time from his mental institution.

I don't know how he's doing now, but I hope he's doing well. And if he's listener hello hi how are you is one of his songs uh and the song itself was despair came knocking and if you felt that my rendition of that song was weird and depressing wait till you hear the music version of it It is not a chipper tune appropriately. And the fact is there are, it turns out also adding to my wrath, there are not many good quotes or songs or movies or TV scenes that mentioned the word couch or sofa and which ones do are universally depressing, such as this one, or you can have the TV by Barry Manilow, which is just a litany of furniture that's getting divided between a couple and a divorce. Wow.

You can keep the couch. You'll need a couch. That's the lyric from that one. It wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. In any case, neither of you are right both of you are wrong and now we will hear the case about your couch dispute glennis you are frustrated because jim does not want to get a couch you cohabitate we do okay are you married we are we're coming up on

our two-year anniversary. Congratulations. And you haven't had anything to sit on all this time while you've had this fight? We have my old twin bed from when I was not cohabitating with Jim. And we currently use that as a sort of day bed. Okay. Where do you live? We live in an apartment

in St. Paul, Minnesota. St. Paul, Minnesota is a lovely town. Thank you. The nice thing about St. Paul that I've noticed the few times that I've visited is if you ever want to know what it is like to be the last human

on Earth, take a walk through St. Paul after 4.30pm. Yeah. Is that an exaggeration? No. No. Not at all. Not at all. It's downtown St. Paul after hours is, you'll definitely

get some quiet thinking done. No one will bother you. I think that's where Edith Wharton wrote The Stand. That's right. That's right. Exactly so. Exactly. Quite right, Monty. Jim, you currently have a twin bed in your living room

and have had for how long? Maybe three years. Yeah, that's when she moved in. For three years? Yeah. In what when she moved in. For three years. Yeah. In what universe is this acceptable and why? I mean, it's acceptable. Apparently it's acceptable in the Jim and Glynis-iverse.

What's going on? Why don't you have something in there that is not a bed? Well, before she moved in, I did have a couch that I received from some friends but when she moved in it was time to bid adieu to the couch because it was old and gross and she had that spare bed which was I mean nothing else was happening with it. And it was easy to move because small beds are easy to move compared to couches, especially into second floor apartment buildings. And so we kind of prettied it up a little bit and put some many, many pillows on it. And now it works as a great day bed. You know, no one sent me a picture of this. on it and now it works as a great day bed.

You know, no one sent me a picture of this. Now, my first ruling is I want you to take a picture of this thing. Not right now, but as soon as you get home. Yeah. I want you to take a picture of this thing. Yeah. And I want you to send it to me. But before you send it to me, I want you to really look at it and think about what it would be to be a normal human being looking at this

okay okay now look maybe i'm being extremely cruel uh what are your ages i am 33 i am 26 okay you're grown humans yes do you have income yes we're both. We both have good paying jobs. Okay. Okay. I got you. What do you do for a living, if I may ask, there in St. Paul? Linus? Be quiet, Jim.

All right. I work for the state of Minnesota. I work for the Department of Human Services. Oh, okay. A government position. A government job. Yep. You probably get some good benefits, some retirement. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the most excited 26-year-old about a pension plan. Well, the enthusiasm is oozing off of you. Yeah, I know.

Well, can you just check the levels, please? Because you're really, your cries of delight are kind of peaking here. I believe she's eligible for retirement next year. And Jim, do you have an income from a job? What is your career? I am an instructor for the biology department at a St. Paul community college. Okay. And St. Paul is not the most expensive city in the world. No. And they have furniture stores there.

Yes, correct. So is it extreme thrift that has led you to repurpose this twin bed as opposed to properly furnishing your living room? I mean, we haven't even gotten to the point of what you're going to put in its place. Because as far as I can tell, the dispute here is that, Glennis, you would like to get a couch,

a sofa, or whatever you want to call it. And Jim wants to just replace it with another bed. Yeah, yeah. We were thinking like, I mean, we're both going to get a house here pretty soon, maybe within the next year or so. We're saving up to buy a house in the next year. Oh, okay. And so, you know, I was saying that I would like a couch in the living room.

And to answer the question that you asked of, is it extreme thrift, that's a fantastic question. It is not, but that is what everyone thinks. And when we kind of we told a friend about that we were going to, you know, present this argument on the podcast, and she had not heard that Jim doesn't like couches. And so then she said, oh, that's why you guys have that bed in the living room? Like she just assumed that we either couldn't afford a couch or we were being extremely thrifty because we're saving for a house. And how did it make you feel that your friend thought you were either weird or cheap or both? You were either weird or cheap or both.

I mean, it wasn't that surprising to me because it is a little weird having a bed as your main seating. Unsurprised is one feeling. But if you were to probe a little bit more deeply, would you use a word like ashamed, humiliated, delighted? I mean, tell me more. Yeah. Yeah. No, it just kind of I guess it was a little bit affirming, too, because Jim. Jim is not a fan of having a couch. And I was like, see, this is what people think.

Affirming in the sense that your your feeling of the profound wrongness of this bed was ratified by another human being because Jim has so thoroughly brainwashed you into his worldview that this is that having a bed in the middle of your living room is normal yeah yeah I don't know if he's thoroughly brainwashed me I mean I am trying him before before the judge so okay I'm not totally there yet Jim why do you hate couches so much I'm not totally there yet. Jim, why do you hate couches so much? There is pretty much like no aspect of a couch that isn't better represented by a daybed, except for maybe your friends being weirded out, I suppose.

Well, you know, the effect it has upon you and your beloved wife and how you are perceived by the rest of the world may be meaningful to you or not. But you are saying intrinsically, there is nothing that a couch offers that isn't better represented by a bed. A day bed. Yes. A day bed specifically. Yeah. And so that we're on the same page. Uh, I, I think of a day bed as essentially a twin bed with some kind of frame on one side of it. Yeah, yeah. And maybe sometimes you got a trundle bed

underneath that that you can pull out and lift up to make it into a double. That's what I envision as a day bed normally. Can I insert, I actually looked up

the definitions of day bed and couches. I hope you didn't look them up in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, because even though Emily Brewster is our resident grammarian and lexicographer and friend, that dictionary, until they update their hot dog and sandwich opinion, is dead to me. Okay. Is Wikipedia okay? Oh yes,

of course. Okay. All right. Um, Wikipedia says that a day bed is a cross between a chaise lounge, a couch and a bed. It's the, the chimera.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like if you took all the bad parts of a couch and got rid of them and replaced them with better things. Tell me about the bad parts of the couch. Yeah, there's so many. I don't know how anyone tolerates couches. Well, here's the thing, Jim. A lot of people do.

A lot of people do. That doesn't mean we have to settle. I think we can do better as a people. You're saying that the vast majority of people living in traditional Western culture homes are deceived by this even piece of furniture. Well, maybe not deceived. They just don't know any better. I've seen the light. Well, yeah, but I bet you they also have beds. I bet you they actually compare couches and beds every day through usage but do they do they do they though because like

the idea of it is so apparently crazy to people well jim why how are you you list it out okay all right well first of all thank you for the assist, Glynis. You're welcome. Couches are not super comfortable. Like if you're sitting in a couch, especially a couch as it gets older, tends to kind of eat you where eventually you're kind of your your rear end is kind of being sucked into the back of the couch. The padding usually gets worn away so that your knees end up being higher than your behind. And it's not a very good, it's kind of a slouched over experience. Uh-huh. Also, the whole like cushion experience is just bad. Like, not only do you constantly have things like seeds and whatever

falling in those crevices that eventually have to be suctioned out, but like having separate cushions, especially like if you're laying down or want any kind of support, they're just not there. And probably first and foremost, worst thing about a couch, if you happen to be over a certain height, the fact that a couch has those like bookending armrests make it very uncomfortable for laying or anything like that, which is a majority of what happens in our living room is mostly laying down of some kind. Right. Do you have a bedroom? Yes. Okay. This is not your studio apartment?

No. All right. What is your height, Jim? I'm about six feet. So a little bit taller than average. Sure. And when you're using the piece of furniture in the living room yes how often are you lying down versus um sitting up give it to me in a percentage

almost always lying down i would say i don't know what like 80 percent of the time i'm looking at glennis for confirmation i don't glennis do you confirm 80 i? I mean, yeah, I'm going to go with Jim's 80%. That sounds fine. So right now in the world, you have a living room with a twin bed in it. Yes. And if 80% of Jim's usage is lying down in that twin bed. I would say 80% of the house usage is laying down i would say i would say 99 of glennis's time in the bed is lying down all right but but jim i'm gonna i'm gonna tell

you right now what you mean to be saying is lying down yes you lie down you do not lay yes yes you're you're correct wait till emily brewster hears this. Unless Glynnis has become unconscious and you have to pick her up and lay her down. Because you lay something down, you lie yourself down. I think and hope I'm correct. Boy, oh boy, I can't wait to get my emails this week. In any case, a little pedantry for you there, Jim. So 80% of usage. entry for you there, Jim.

But, so 80% of usage, the point is Jim, you're lying down on your bed in the living room. Where is Glenys during this? Are you guys cuddled up together or does she have to go sit in a hard back chair on the other side of the room

facing the corner while you're luxuriating? I almost never get to use the bed day bed yes the current twin bed bed bed we'll call it yes it is almost always being in being used by my better half we'll say glennis right that's who you're talking about your wife yes glennis there isn't some extra wife in here there There isn't some weird St. Paul marriage thing that I don't understand. Okay. So, Glennis, you are the one who's lying down all the time in bed.

Yeah. Is that so? Yeah, that's right. I mean, in the mornings, I'll lay down and eat my breakfast while sitting on my stomach and reading the news on my phone or whatever. All on the bed in the living room. Yeah, well, I mean, that's all that we have. If we had a couch, I would do it there.

Jim seems to think that it would be impossible to lie down on a couch. It's not impossible. It's just worse. Okay. Are you lying down because it is a bed as opposed to a couch? Like the medium is the message here? Like it's a bed. We must lie couch. Like the medium is the message here. Like it's a bed. We must lie down.

I think you're right. Yeah. Sorry, Hodgman. I just couldn't help it. No, I appreciate that. That's a very well bailiff, Monty. Thank you. And so the answer, Glennis, is you think Monty is on to something there?

I think so. Yeah. It just seems more appropriate. You're saying that because you have a bed in your living room and no other furniture to speak of that is leading to this deviant behavior and you would prefer to normalize.

Yeah, it would be nice to have an arm rest, you know, like if you had an exercise bike in there, all you would do is cycle the whole time in your living. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm, I'm very tempted to just say that you guys got to throw that bed out the window and, and your only furniture is two treadmill desks. Yeah. They're facing each other and you just have to walk slowly towards each other while eating the TV dinners. But you have to acknowledge that, look, you said an armrest would be nice. And by the way, that's an invention that I enjoy a lot.

Well, I mean, so an end table serves that purpose fine i think or a pillow would you like me to put that into the guest hole we're never going to use that term again okay the the guest hole is going into its own hole. It's a hole of perpetual forgetting. Yeah, I got you. I got you on that, Jim. I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to talk to Glennis here for a second. I'm actually trying to do a job for you. Okay, sorry.

Yes. Whether or not this is your conscious, unconscious choice or the horrible telepathic will of this demon bed. You're lying down a lot. I am. And there is no question that while armrests are cool, I mean, all cool kids have them. A bed is better suited to lying down than almost any sofa or couch. I mean, that's not what a sofa or couch is primarily designed for. So why not give in and admit the gym is right and just maybe even get a double bed, put it right in the middle.

California King. Yeah, California King right in the middle of your living room. Put the TV on the ceiling and never have anyone over because you have effectively left society. That's actually a pretty cool idea. Yeah, I figured you'd go for that, Jim. Well, let me ask you, my question was rhetorical, obviously, Glennis. It started out real, but it ended up rhetorical. Do you guys ever watch TV together?

Yes. Yeah. And how do you do that? We have one chair next to the daybed. So there is at least one more piece of furniture in our living room. And sometimes it's usually like one of us in the daybed and one of us in the chair. Do you split it 50-50 or who's usually in the bed? And by the way, this is not a daybed that you have, right? and one of us in the chair. Do you split it 50-50 or who's usually in the bed?

And by the way, this is not a day bed that you have, right? This is your old night bed. That's my old bed, yeah. Yeah, this is not, I mean, a day bed is its own mutant thing. Yeah. That you may or may not get, depending on my ruling. But right now you have a nightbed in your living room. And what I'm asking is, when you watch TV together, who is more often sprawled on the nightbed?

I'll have to be honest and say that it's usually me. Okay. So it's you, Glennis, who normally is lying down. And you lying down on your side. I usually lay on my stomach. On your stomach. Yeah. Give me,

so is the bed pointed into the middle of the, like, where's the TV? What's going on in your lives? You guys give it. So run down the geography of your living room for me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So the TV is, um, it's horizontal to the, or wait, no, sorry. If I'm laying on my stomach, I have to turn my head to the left to see the TV.

Okay. So the TV is, uh, let's say it's very hard to describe, isn't it? Yeah, it is. The bed is in couch position, that is to say, it is not pointing at the TV, but it is, the long part of the bed is facing the TV, not the short part of the bed, right? Yeah. Right.

Okay. And the chair, tell me about this chair, Jim. Yeah, it's just a padded chair. It's okay. Is it upholstered? Yes, it is. Is it fully upholstered? Yes.

Uh-huh. Okay. Is it from a place? Is it from a store? You can name the store. We got it from my mom because she was redecorating. So we got it. I got you. Yeah.

What does it look like? What is the upholstery? Is it a pattern? It's like a velvet. It's like a tan velvet color. Kind of a gold color. Yeah, gold. And it feels velvety.

So old night bed and mom's chair. Do you have a coffee table? Yeah. Or just like a coffee table? Yeah. Or just like a milk crate? It's a nice, I made it with my dad. It's a really nice coffee table. Oh, so you're a handy fella. My dad's a handy fella.

Oh, okay. And he made it out of a milk crate. He saw the idea on Pinterest. Do you have lamps? We do. We have a floor lamp and a mounted lamp on the wall. Okay. All right.

And, Judge, can I say, so I'm okay with having it, like, when we have a house one day, hopefully we will have a main living room and then we will have sort of like a family room in the basement. And so I am fine with having a bed basically in our basement because that's where the family stays. But I think that a living room is pretty much the most public space in a house. And so that's why I'm insisting on a couch to be in the living room. Do you feel self-conscious when entertaining? A little bit. I mean, especially now that I know that people think that we're just too poor to have a couch. Well, when you do entertain, I mean, do you have people over? Yeah, I just threw a surprise party for Jim because he he got tenure in May.

Oh, congratulations, Jim. Yeah, thanks. How was the surprise party? Were you surprised? I was absolutely surprised. What was the story that was told to you to get you out of the house, or did you just come home? I went rock climbing with friends. So when you came home, what happened? I opened the door, a lot of coworkers and friends shouted surprise. And I was genuinely surprised. And were they all on a big cuddle puddle on the bed or what was going on? Surprise.

We have nowhere to sit. I mean, it would have been, it would, I mean, there were people sitting on the day bed. It's not a day bed. It's not. It's a bed. It's a daybed. It's not a daybed. You're right. This is going nowhere until you

guys acknowledge to the world and to yourselves you have a bed instead of a couch. Okay, great. Got it. I just want us all to live in reality for a second. It's time for this. Projecting a future daybed Okay, great. Got it. I just want us all to live in reality for a second. Okay.

It's time for this. Projecting a future daybed onto your bed bed. Bed is not couch. Hot dog is not sandwich. Noted. Thank you very much, guest bailiff Monty Belmonti. Your Honor, can I say something? You may.

I will say that the one person that seemed to love the day bed, or I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the bed. I'm about to throw you both out of this court. You're going right into the guest holes. No, I said never again, Monty. Sorry. Sorry. So the one person who loves the bed bed is whom?

Yeah, the one person that loved the bed at that surprise party was a four-year-old? Yeah. The one person that loved the bed at that surprise party was a four-year-old. Yeah. Was he or she jumping up and down on the bed? Yeah. She loved taking all the pillows off and just like having a grand old time on it. Is the bed up against a wall?

It is up against a wall. OK. And you have pillows strewn about to create phony, phony and movable armrests. And yeah, I had to put a lot of pillows to make like to make it, you know, have like lumbar support. And then like Jim complains about all the pillows. And I'm like, well well I have to make it like this in order for it to seem like a couch right and uh and so in in effect even though I I just yelled at you yeah I mean what you what Jim is suggesting as a replacement is another version of this. A twin bed that is at essentially twin bed height that you can add bolsters and pillows to in order to replicate some aspects of couchdom.

But if you were to sit in the bed bed now like it were a couch, you can't lean against, how many pillows can you have that you're actually leaning against pillows? And do you have your feet on the floor? No, because it's too, like it's too wide. So you're like, basically you have to scoot back and then your calves are like at the end. Or at least for me with my height yeah jim how do you feel when you hear that your wife glennis feels a measure of

embarrassment and social awkwardness because you have a bed bed instead of a couch or even a daybed i guess i measure that against the joy that the bed bed or future day bed would bring to our lives and kind of make a judgment call well do you mean our lives or your life that's what i don't understand i mean you you are you've already said that she's using this thing more than you are yes that's what i'm saying you're sitting in in mama's tan chair yeah i know i i i wish i could get some of that bedtime it's great you totally can can we also henceforth call a future day bed a tomorrow bed no no we may not that goes into the tomorrow hole there are a lot of holes there's a lot of holes in this one. Let me tell you. Glenis.

Yeah. Do you want me to rule that you get a couch tomorrow or when you move into your new home? When we move into our new home, I can wait. I can wait. I've already had that bed bed for three years. So what's another year? What's another year? That's very reasonable. Jim, why is it so imperative that a couch never enter your new home?

I'm not sure I would say never. I just think that it would be unfortunate if that happened. Like, our future would be compromised? What do you mean? No, it just wouldn't be as comfortable a home for me to be in. Go on. That's all I got. I wouldn't be crushed if we ended up getting a couch i

would just be i would just be disappointed in your current situation you have a bed instead of a couch that you have modded out to be a kind of day bed yes you don't use it as much as glennis but you would like to use it more yeah and your principal dedication to this concept is so great that even though glennis who is the one who's using the thing more yeah wants a couch her her desire should be ignored so that you can continue to enjoy to not enjoy this thing yeah that's i mean that's pretty much it. I would love to have more time with it, but. You would love to get more time on the bed.

Yes. Or the future, future bed, future day bed. I would like to object because I did not know that there was such a desire to have more time on the day bed. Well, I'm glad you guys have finally gotten to the crux of the issue here, which is that Jim wants some bed by time. Do you like sitting in Mama's tan chair? It's fine. I mean, it's kind of like, it's like a third of a couch.

So I think I would be happier if i had a couch but who knows i can't i guess i can't know until i get a couch if i get a couch all right i think i've heard everything that i need to in order to make my decision uh i am going to uh go into the furniture showroom that is my chambers and i I will sit around on a lazy boy recliner, and then I'll come out and render my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. I guess rise from your living room bed. Glynnis, would you be open to getting a couch in the bedroom?

Like instead of the living room? Yeah. I mean, if the bed is in the living room, why not put the couch in the bedroom? That's true. I mean, I guess if it was a really huge master bedroom, I could see a small couch in there. That'd be fine. And Jim, with the same sort of idea behind it, since most people, when they come over for a party, end up spending most time in the kitchen, would you be willing to have a daybed in the kitchen, but a couch in the living room? Daybed in the kitchen, but a couch in the living room.

Yeah, because then people could lie down in the kitchen uncomfortably, where they're usually gathering, instead of the living room, where they ostensibly gather, but actually usually don't. I, I, I can't answer that question without experiencing the daybed in the kitchen scenario. I think I would need to be there. I think it would be a bad idea. Probably a bad idea. a bad idea. And now, Jim, just as an aside, as a biology instructor at St. Paul Community College, is the biology of having a couch anything that's factoring into this? Because, you know, the way that we in the Western world sit is allegedly not good for the spine and the lying down, the reclining is more ancient of a tradition. Does that factor into your decision making at all?

Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yes. That has not been brought up once, I will say. And the judge is not even here to hear this. So I think that is, you should have probably brought this up at a more appropriate time. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not even in a position to hear what was just said. And even if I were, I wasn't paying attention. What was it? What was it that you just said, Monty? The biology of lying down is actually better for the human spine than the biology of sitting in the sort of, I guess, Western way on a couch or on a chair.

OK, got it. Thank you. I didn't hear it. I'm still prepared that, you know, with Glynnis's original intent here, that Jim is ready to full on go Grandpa Joe from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and just lie down wherever he goes. But we'll be back in just a moment with Judge Hodgman's decision. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic.

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There's a world of hatred towards Grandpa Joe on the internet that he is a lazy freeloader who is faking his injuries until Charlie himself gets a golden ticket and then he tries to capitalize on Charlie's good luck. Yeah. Or,

you know, out of pure greed. Cause he also wants chocolate. Right. I have to agree with the internet on that one. Yeah, me too. That's a weird old man who jumps out of bed for a chocolate bar.

Gross. Love that song though. Uh, all right. So Glenison, Jim, uh, you may re recline as it were while i render my

verdict one of the precepts of this court of course is people like what they like and it's never been quite tested in this way because clearly glennis you like lying down in your living room. Not only do you like reclining, and there is definitely furniture that can help you recline, but as I gather, you like lying down in a very specific way, which is on your stomach, while watching television and hanging out with your husband and generally doing the kind of couch activities that one does in the living room,

which I have to say would be very challenging to do on a traditional couch of any kind. of any kind. And it is the case here that in some ways your husband is looking out for you because he knows that if you are going to use your sofa as a bed, there is no better sofa than a bed.

And yet you want a couch, it sounds like, and yet you want to couch, it sounds like, primarily to feel a part of civilization and to be unjudged by your friends and colleagues as the sad poor weirdo who's still sleeping in her twin bed from before marriage that's now in the middle of the living room. Because of your fear of social opprobrium, meaning harsh criticism or censure, you are trying to normalize, and let's face it, that would be more normal for you to have

a couch in your living room than what you have now, or even a daybed. And so there is an element to this court's yearning, which is to tell you, follow your lying down bliss. Like what you like. Own it. like what you like, own it. And should anyone out there criticize you for it,

maybe they're not your friends. Maybe you should set up your living room the way, and this is the first thing I thought of, the way Emperor Augustus and his family enjoyed their living room time on the I, Claudius miniseries from PBS in the 70s. If you haven't seen it, and I gather from your deathly silence that you haven't, it is a miniseries set in ancient Rome

during the reign of Emperor Augustus, played by Brian Blessed, and his lame stepson, Claudius, played by Derek Jacoby, and his villainous wife, Olivia, played by Sian Phillips. I don't know how to pronounce her first name, but she was also in Dune.

Look, this is one of my favorite things. Patrick Stewart's in it. It's amazing. It all looks like it was shot in someone's basement with a torchia lamp aimed at them. It looks so cheap, and yet the acting is so incredible. And you believe that ancient Rome exists in that basement rec room at the BBC.

And the way they would all hang out and have their dinner and social conversation time is they would all lie on beds. Often, and you're going to like this, Glynnis, on their stomach. Yes. Smart people. They basically had,

and perhaps this is historically correct set decoration, or just someone at the BBC had the good idea, that they laid out all these twin beds in basically a U-shape and draped them with a bunch of pillows, and then there were a bunch of dates and figs everywhere that they were always munching on while talking about who was going to get married to whom. Another alternative is a variety of beanbag chairs.

I mean, you could just have hammocks. I don't care. If you like the way you live your life, you should do it that way. As Monty Belmonte pointed out, a couch is a pretty rando cultural assumption that has nothing to do with the human body necessarily. And there are many, many cultures that don't have them.

And you could embrace that. Like what you like. Lie where you want to lie. But don't lie to yourself or anyone else. Because you have a bed in your living room. Don't lie and say that you don't. Own it. But the other problem is the stuff that you are owning is no good.

Essentially, your living room is right now castoffs from previous lives. This is the thing I don't like. I don't like the fact that you are a grown man and a grown woman who have incomes, who are living on cast-off furniture still. This is not your first apartment out of college. Even though this is not where you will end up, this is your home. And some of the discomfort that is being felt here, I think, is the fact that you're living this cobbled together life. You do not thoroughly own what you are doing in there.

Because if you were to put a bunch of tatami mats and throw pillows around and get rid of all furniture, that at least would be a conscious decision. This is how you live your life. And your friends would know, that's that weird couple that has a bed in their living room or whatever. Right now what's going on is, why aren't you guys moving on with your lives and buying furniture that is meaningful to you instead of using your old bedroom bed as a phony fake day bed?

You see what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I definitely do. I appreciate the need for thrift. And for that reason, I'm not going to order you to go out and buy all new furniture tomorrow.

But I do order you to save your money and buy this house so you can put this whole sordid lifestyle behind you and instead move forward making conscious decisions about your furniture, which is the decoration of your life. It is the place. This is one of

the places where you will spend the most time you deserve and require within your means to surround yourself with furniture and decoration that makes you actively happy. Now, I would argue that watching TV while lying down in your stomach with your head craned awkwardly to the left or to the right in order to see the TV. It's hard for me to understand how that would make you actively happy since that seems like a depressive act but and I don't even want to imagine you having a snack in that position because that seems like the most depressing thing of all time but if that's but that's not me it's not my living room it's your living room but

I order you to buy this new house and to and then get rid of that twin bed or throw it into a spare room to give mama's tan chair back to mama except no one else's cast offs and within your means to curate your home with the furniture that you actively like and deserve and whether or not you choose to rejoin society, or I should say traditional Western culture,

and put a couch in your new living room, I order you also to go to a number of different furniture stores and try out a bunch of different couches. Because I suspect Jim, that your opprobrium for all of couchdom has something to do with a bad experience you had with this old couch, your ex couch that you threw out when Glenis moved in. And it's one of the most important parts ex-couch that you threw out when Glennis moved in.

And it's one of the most important parts about starting a new relationship that you don't let old relationships affect your new relationship. You got to throw this ex-couch out of your mind and heart as well as out of your house. Because I don't know what went down, what went wrong with you with that old couch. There are a lot of couches out there, dude, and a lot of different couch technology. And what you described about the discomfort of couchdom, I think you are going to be, if you can get over your blind prejudice,

you'll be amazingly surprised. And it may be that once you get out there in the world and start test driving different kinds of couches, ottomans, armchairs, side chairs, all of that stuff, you may find yourselves falling in love with a piece of furniture. And it might be a couch. And it might be one that you can lie down on comfortably, even lie down on your stomach comfortably, or do what you can't do now, which is comfortably cuddle together and watch television. I will never, ever, ever allow you to have a daybed in your living room, though.

Those things are monstrous mutants that I've spent too many bad nights in guest rooms on. They are the worst of all worlds. The usually metal railings and backboards of those things actively hate your back. They are terrible beds. They're terrible couches, and they will have no place in your home. If you want a bed in your living room and are willing to accept that you will not be able to entertain

any kind of sit-down cocktail party of any kind, but that living room is just for you and that makes you happy, you go for it, but own it. Get a bed, get a couch, do anything. But do not get a daybed and get rid of the stuff that you have now and start actively curating your lives as soon as you move into your new house.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Jim Glynnis, seems to me the solution here is get a pull-out couch. It's a couch with a bed hidden in it. And then when you want to lie down when you're watching TV, it's like together, just you two. You can sleep on it.

And then when friends come over for a cocktail party, push it back in there. Nobody even knows. Overruled. Overruled, Monty. Just checking. No hybrids of any kind. Choose the way you want to live your life and live it. You can't. No. What about

sectional sofa like I have in my living room, Judge John Hodgman, with a really long section that is very easy to lie down and sleep on, but has a normal couch part attached to it. Perfect. A perfect. That is not a hybrid. That is a sectional sofa.

Sectional healing. Oh, you monster. I was hearkening back to my original joke. It was not merely a pun, but also a callback. Double terrible humor, but I accept it since it is perfect. Yeah, this is what you guys are missing. When I say no hybrids, those kinds of double-tasking furnitures, for lack of any kind of eloquence at all,

but any furniture that double- that double tasks in that way, whether it's a day bed or a sleeper sofa, those are fine for guest rooms for occasional use as either a sofa or a bed because those things that try to do two things that way don't do either very well. But a sofa that has a chaise longue attached to it, that might be a perfect solution for you. Whatever it is you pick, though, actively pick it because you like

it and own it completely. And I don't want to hear any more discussion about it, and I certainly don't want to hear any more puns. This is the double sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. I didn't know it was called a Chez Long. I thought it was Chez Lounge. That comes from

the Tom Waits song, Step Right Up. Yeah. Well, Tom Waits does, Step Right Up. Yeah, well, Tom Waits does some funny things with language. A slipper that's been at large under the Shay's Lounge for several weeks. But it is Ches Long, meaning long chair. Ches Long.

I like it. But this is again the sound of a gavel. Third gavel. It's like the Republican National Convention all of a sudden. There's gaveling going on all over the place. I refuse to endorse a daybed. Vote your conscience and get a double wide hammock. Jim and Glynnis, how do you feel about this ruling, Jim? I'm for it. I think he's got a great hypothesis. I'm willing to test it out. And just as an aside, you know, it seems like you're into the utilitarian use of things. Pants. Yes. They don't make any sense, but they're part of the cultural tradition of the of our part of the world. Have you ever worn a dress and

thought maybe I should wear dresses all the time? Because I have. And I think that every time I wear a dress, this would be so much easier. I have thought that. Yeah. All right. Well, that's something else to look forward to there, I guess, Glynnis. And I just think as your name is beautiful and I'm wondering where it comes from. Is it any relation to Glynnis Johns, who was in original Mary Poppins movie? And maybe you can be the Glynnis in Mary Poppins 2 starring Lin-Manuel Miranda. Only because I wanted to get a Lin-Manuel Miranda reference in. two starring Lin-Manuel Miranda, only because I wanted to get a Lin-Manuel Miranda reference in. They really should cast me.

Yeah, no, I was named after my grandpa, who was named Glenn. And so it's a little less exciting. Sorry. And how do you feel about this ruling? I feel good. I was surprised. I feel like, I mean, I'm not surprised, but I feel like the judge really hit the nail on the head. I feel like he's got a very good point about how our life is kind of a lot of things thrown together. And maybe that's the more central issue than having a bed bed versus a couch.

You'll start your own life together with your own new furniture and get rid of the Grandpa Joe mentality. Right. And I'm all for that. I like this ruling. Well, thank you both for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because yes listening is mandatory the jv club with janet varney is available every thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts thank you and remember no running in the halls if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

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good time, bailiff time, guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte. What a pleasure to have you here this summer again. It's still the beginning of the summer as far as I'm concerned, and yet I am already thinking towards fall. You and I, along with regular bailiff Jesse Thorne, of course, will be appearing in Turner's Falls at the Shea Theater. And I hope that everyone within the sound of my voice who knows anyone in the Pioneer Valley

will direct them towards that event because it will sell out. It's nearing sold out as we speak. So don't hesitate. And we are weeks and weeks away. There's not a bad seat in the Shea Theater. It'll be a fun, intimate event there. But I do have a little piece of news regarding the tour, which is that Philadelphia, which had

been sold out, has now added a whole bunch more seats. And so those are selling briskly as well. They reconfigured the seating to get more people in. And I suspect that one will sell out pretty quickly, too. But if you were in Philadelphia and you saw Sold Out before when you went there, go check it out again. All tickets for the Judge John Hodgman Live Justice Tour with live cases in many northeastern cities with special guests and all kinds of good time, fun time, guest bailiffs and so forth. All those tickets are available at johnhodgman.com slash tour or at maximumfund.org on the Judge John Hodgman page of the live events section of maximumfund.org.

You've got no excuse not to go and click a link and find a ticket for you. Okay, Monty, who do we have to thank for this week's title? Thanks to Danny Lewin for coming up with this week's case name, Devon Judgment. To suggest a name for a future case, like us on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for submissions.

If you have a case for the judge, submit it at www.maximumfund.org. This episode was engineered by Johnny Evans at Minnesota Public Radio, and our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Thanks for joining us for the Judge John Hotchman podcast.