Judge John Hodgman - Docket Deep Cuts

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

We are going back to the beginning of the JJHo inbox to find some DOCKET DEEP CUTS! Cases from 2010! The best fast food burgers, cats looking for milk, free-will arguments, ramen, and much more! Plus the FIRST EVER Judge Wrong Hodgman letter (™ Lela)!LINKS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE: The Doughboys podcastFrench Fries cold-frying technique from America's Test KitchenDick's Drive-In French Fries techniqueRock, Rot & Rule by Scharpling & WursterEpisode 516: MAY IT PLEASE DESCARTESbit.ly/dicktownAnil Dash on TwitterFor Judge Hodgman's final thoughts on the hot dog sandwichness dispute, visit bit.ly/JJHOTDOG

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket live with me from Brooklyn, New York City, where they paint murals a biggie is the great John Kellogg Hodgman. Hi, John. Wow, you revealed my middle name. Yeah, well, people need to know about your association with flakes. People need to know about your association with flakes. You know what? I have no truck with flakes, Jesse. No truck with flakes. I like solid people, and I like crunchy cereal like grape nuts.

No flakes, nuts. You know what I mean? That's what I'm about. I also love grape nuts. I am not a descendant of John Harvey Kellogg, the founder of the Kellogg Sanitarium, whose brother invented cornflakes. Right? Actually, his brother ran the Kellogg... Oh, someone's going to write me a letter.

There's two brothers. One of them was a health nut, not a grape nut. It's going to be T.C. Boyle is going to write you a letter. Yeah, exactly right. T. Karagasin Boyle. That guy goes by his middle name. His middle name is his calling card. Karagasin, that's my middle name. That's what he says. It's goes by his middle name. His middle name is his calling card. Karagasin,

that's my middle name. That's what he says. It's a sketch phrase. Jesse, we're clearing the docket. Next week, we're going to go back to live litigant cases. We've got another docket to clear. And I've been thinking about some rollicking through these dockets over these trying times. Every time you end the episode, you say the docket is clear. And you know why that bothers me a little bit? Why is that, John? It's false. Not true. Docket's not clear. Docket is never clear. Wow. Because I was working with producer Jennifer Marmer over there in Los Angeles. Hello, Jennifer.

Hi. And, you know, we put the docket together. I was like, there are some cases, like there are a bunch of docket cases that I've never heard. Like I put them in the docket folder, well, I don't know, one, two, maybe three years ago and never got back to them. So yesterday I was like, I wonder what the first email I got in the docket was. And it goes back all the way, Jesse Thorne, to the year 2010. 2010, starting with Ian's letter from October 23rd, 2010. Today, we are going to be doing some docket deep cuts. Wow. Clearing the docket from docket cases that were submitted within minutes. In fact, in this case, even before the first official episode of Judge John Hodgman ever aired. Ian writes from 2010, I have an immense respect and admiration for the president, but there are some small areas where I disagree with him.

Therefore, I will not be voting this year. Okay. He says, I have a dear friend in Seattle with whom I've nearly come to blows in regards to burger chains. Up here, we have Dick's, which locals tend to love, but is basically vile cafeteria quality BS. Meanwhile, I grew up in Reno and have great fondness for In-N-Out. I know it's not the best burger ever, but it's certainly the best fast food burger.

Discussions on this topic have left civility behind and mar our friendship. Please help. Jesse, as I mentioned, this letter is from October 23rd, 2010. Yeah. And it's very sobering to find a letter that you've never responded to that is more than 10 years old. And as I mentioned, this was before, this is sobering for another reason, because this is before we even officially launched the podcast in November 2010. We had done Judge John Hodgman as a segment on JJ Go a few times. And I guess we must have put out a call for cases

for this new podcast we're launching, Judge John Hodgman. And if I had looked more closely at this, this is what is harrowing. If I had looked more closely at this dispute from Ian and thought about it, maybe there never would have been a Judge John Hodgman. We might have invented the Doughboys.

Wow. We would be so rich, John. We would be so dramatically more popular than we are right now. We might have accidentally created the Doughboys or at least had cause to sue them when they created Doughboys later on. God, I would love to sue the Doughboys. I don't want to sue those boys. Let's sue their pants off

no they're coming for you mitch and wags we gotta get that pie in any case this is a dispute between two rival burger chains jesse it's been a long time since we've been to seattle play that neptune theater I hope to come back there again soon. But did you ever go to Dick's Drive-In in Seattle? I'm not familiar with it. Do you know it? No, I've never even heard of it. The main Seattle thing I know is wearing shorts when it's raining outside.

And I guess Mark McLemore. And I get McLemore and the rapper McLemore, and I get McLemore, and the rapper McLemore. Sure. But mostly Mariner's second baseman, Mark McLemore, after whom McLemore is named. Oh, I didn't know that. Interesting. Yeah. I just thought he mackled more than anyone else.

No, just a medium amount of mack. I guess Dick's Drive-In is the open open air market where they throw the hamburger to your face we're really we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel of our talking about flannel shirts and that's going to be the end of it it's just it's just it's just seattle just that nice library like so like so much so much of our beloved North American touring route, Seattle feels very distant to me, very much of the past. This is making me extremely nostalgic, and so I must plunge forward. I have not tried Dick's. I cannot assess Ian's assessment of Dick's drive-in food.

I hope that we can try it out soon and settle this at a live show in Seattle. We'll get some In-N-Out flown up or something. I don't know. I don't know how we're going to do it, but I can tell you this. I did go to the Dick's Drive-In website. I can tell you, taste untasted that their French fries are better than In-N-Out, for sure. Zero, zero question. Jesse, you don't have a response to that you want to defend the in and out french fry i mean they're fine they're not fine the premise of in and out is that the food is fresh right so you watch them put the french fry through the press and that's the kind of french fry that you get. They don't use frozen food,

so they don't use parboiled or once cooked frozen french fries, which is what many other fast food chains do. A lot of people don't like that kind of french fry. It's fine. I don't have strong feelings about french fries in general. I'm not a huge french fry guy anyway, so it doesn't bother me that much.

Yeah, I can see Jennifer Marmer shaking her head in dismay. I mean... I like the fries, but I'm a huge French fry guy. Yeah. You're a fry guy? I'm a big fry guy. Do you like the fries better than the fries at other fast food chains?

Well, not better than McDonald's, but infinitely better than Burger King. Let's not even talk about that. My one- a half year old loves fries so much that if we make fries or bring fries in from somewhere, he cries, fries, fries, fries, until we give him fries. And we were on a really long travel day visiting my in-laws and we stopped at Burger King really quick just because we were all ravenous. And he kept crying for fry. And I kept giving him the Burger King fry

and he would not take it. No, no fry. That's no fry. Kept crying. Jen's child is a French fry reply guy. I drove by a burger king the other day and you know look until until i started listening to those doughboys i probably had not thought about eating fast food in in a decade or more now i think now you know i'm i'm just the biggest fan

of that wendy's in southborough massachusetts right off of Route 9, right off of 490 there. If you learn one thing from listening to the Doughboys, it's that people's judgments about fast food are not about rationality. They're about weird childhood romantic associations that they have about going to Wendy's with their Nana. Wait, wait, stop. That is why if we had invented the doughboys, it would have been different because it wouldn't have just been nostalgia about going to eat fried clams

at the clam box in Quincy with your mom. It would have been about what's true about food and also what's true about interstates, Jesse, because it's off of 495. So stop writing those letters. I said 490 i was wrong 485 southborough massachusetts wendy's see you there on june 27th on my way north french fries look french fries are made good one way double fry you can't just fry them once

it's not true. You know what? You're right. You're right. Because there's someone in my family who tried to convince me that their favorite online cooking writing person, that their recipe was possible, which is to start to put the fries in cold oil and slowly heat it up. That's what I was going to say. That works so good.

It's so good. You have to use waxy potatoes, though. That worked once well, and I guess maybe we didn't know to use waxy potatoes the second time because it was an incredible experiment, so counterintuitive that it seemed like magic. But then it was not reproducible in its results. But okay, we'll use waxy potatoes next time. But everybody, within the sound of my voice if you are doing deep frying you're doing your french fries you gotta you gotta par cook them you gotta fry them

once give them a rest fry them again that's why when you go to in and out if they're only frying them once even if you ask them to do those fries well done which you can do you're still getting a paper bag of warm grubs but it's not about the french fries. I agree. I love In-N-Out. Love In-N-Out. And that's really good. That's the secret of In-N-Out. This is the secret of In-N-Out. All other fast food hamburgers

taste bad. And In-N-Out is pretty good. Like, it's not the greatest cheeseburger ever. It's just that, like, a cheeseburger from McDonald's is horrible. It's not a double cheeseburger from the Wendy just that like a cheeseburger from mcdonald's is horrible it's not a double cheeseburger from the wendy's in southborough massachusetts that's true but it's very very very good love in and out i love their hiring practices hamburgers are really good french fries are really bad taste untasted i'm gonna give dicks the win for fries because

they had a video about how they make their fries and i know that they double fry them taste untasted i'm gonna say probably dicks is not as good a hamburger as In-N-Out. We'll settle it in Seattle. Here's something from Phil. My cat insists that there is milk kept somewhere in my neck, but I'm certain I have no neck milk. Who is correct? Dude, the cat or me? Jesse, I have to, uh, you're my friend, but I have to critique you. You added a clarifying element to that letter. I did. Yeah. You added the modifier, the cat to dude. Yeah. Whereas, and I, and I, and I think that that's clearer for the audience, right? But it takes away from the weird, sublime, and unsettling mystery of these spare couple of sentences that have haunted me for 3,870 days since this letter was sent to me November 6, 2010. My cat insists that there is milk kept somewhere in my neck,

but I am certain I have no neck milk. Who is correct, dude or me? There's a poetry to it. You have to do a little work there to figure out that dude is the cat, which by the way, dude is a great name for a cat. But this email, you can see this is the second email that I got after we, maybe the first email that I got after we put out the first episode of Judge John Hodgman, because it's like days afterward.

And every now and then I would go back to this email and I'd be like, what do I do with Phil and dude? Because this is weird. It's like, you know, it's gross. This is a gross letter. Obviously a body doesn't have neck milk. That's science. Body doesn't have neck milk. Yeah. And it was just, I was like, was this

really happening? And only since then. And also I didn't know what, I didn't know what Phil was talking about. It sounded weird and gross, but I've learned since I've learned about many things as a cat owner in the past decade. I've learned about cats chattering. You familiar with cats chattering? No, I've heard women in Iowa chatter, pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little, pick, pick, pick, pick a lot, pick a little more. The music man. Yeah. Now, our cat, Lola the Dumb Dumb Cat cat would look out the window at birds and make a different meow than she would otherwise ever make and at first we thought we this cat who is so dumb that she literally bumps her head when she sits up under a coffee table like she has no sense of field

awareness whatsoever was secretly a genius because she would talk to the birds because she would meow in a different way at the birds than in any other way. She would look at these birds and go, brr, brr, brr. Then I learned very recently that that's what cats, lots of cats do that. Cats have this habit of looking at birds and making a distinct vocalization that is called chattering, and it is rather uncanny.

And you can find lots of videos of it on the internet, and those cats will creep you out. Now, do the creepy cat is exhibiting a different behavior, which I now understand to be quite common since I first read about it way back in November of 2010. And that is post-mature suckling. And you remember our friend in Toronto, Sarah, who's a cat groomer up there in Toronto? Sure. We talked to her a couple of times over the rollicking dockets of the winter. I just wrote to her and I was like, this is a thing, right?

Because I've heard about this. And she confirmed, yeah, quote, suckling behavior is common in cats who are taken from their mother too soon. It is commonly believed to be a way for them to comfort themselves by attempting to substitute for their mom's presence. It can be exhibited during times of stress or massive change for the cat as an attempt at self-soothing, similar to thumb sucking or nail biting in humans. And that made sense to me, Jesse, because, you know, dude was going through a massive

change. An incredible new podcast had just been announced and had had its premiere episode and the world was rocked honestly i mean i got a lot of letters from cat owners saying what's going on why is my cat uh running around in circles and and chasing ghosts like the podcast in any case sarah says they will tend to go for wool or blankets because that's warm and fuzzy like their mom so it's possible phil's cat has just decided his neck is a good option. So Phil, I don't know whether you have or had a warm and fuzzy neck, but that is the explanation for what dude is doing. And I, and I, and I I'm using present tense. I hope dude is still with us.

This is 10 years ago, plus 10 years. Plus I hope dude is abiding. And if not, I'm sorry for your loss. I think you will agree that dude really pulled the room together. Let's take a quick break to hear from this week's partners. We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in.

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Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound.

Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. W-E-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket and we have a case here from Alex. A recent screening of the animated Richard Linklater film Waking Life sparked a discussion about free will. Is man a free thinking creature with power over his own decisions or is he a product or prisoner, if you will, of the various idiosyncratic concoctions of neurochemical transmitters that make up his brain? asserted that even as we argued, she was making decisions and using her own free will. I said, advances in neuroscience over the last two decades all but prove that man's thought and

behavior are determined by neurochemistry. All but prove. My girlfriend did not appreciate what she felt was scientific condescension and minimization of her decisions as a free-thinking human being and demonstrated her free will by angrily flinging a ladle of hot spaghetti sauce all over our kitchen. As you can imagine, this did not settle the argument. I have a hard time imagining. Yeah. I struggle to, my neurochemicals are really having a hard time with imagining that not settling this argument it's pretty much the ultimate to quote john worcester the ultimate argument settler yeah that rocks and rules and eventually will rot if they don't clean it up that is a reference of course to the great sharpling and worcester uh i don't even know how you would term it comedy album pretty much yeah rock rot and rule

please look it up rock rot and rule so this letter comes from november the 9th 2010 i think you can hear how we feel about it but i I chose it in part because I, I wonder what I might've said back there in 2010 when I read this letter, what I, what I would have heard in this argument when I was merely 39 and the movie Waking Life by Richard Linklater was merely nine. You know, I've learned a lot from all of you listening and writing into this podcast. I've had access to so many different perspectives and sometimes it has been painful or sort of embarrassing, but mostly incredibly beneficial thing to grow through the experience of doing this podcast and talking to so many people. You know, I would have called myself a feminist back in 2010, but I'm not sure I would have honestly flagged the fact that Alex writes exclusively about man's free will. Like free will has a gender. Like that I probably, I might not have picked up. It was only a few weeks ago that I was just cavalierly talking about man-made islands, which, you know what? Artificial islands.

out man-made islands which you know what artificial islands not just men making them i'm not sure i would have flagged the the phrase free-spirited in quote my free-spirited girlfriend as demeaning code for silly and unscientific because alex you might have said my partner or you might have said the whole human being that i live with who actually has a name and a complete inner life that I do not erase for my own intellectual amusement. And a ladle full of spaghetti sauce right now. Yeah, exactly. So Alex, I'm going a little hard on you here. But this is not personal. And that's part of the reason why I changed even Alex's first name, Alex's pseudonym. Because perhaps Alex has grown too in the past 10 years. I mean, obviously, Alex, you were aware that you were being condescending and diminishing of your partner's sense of full humanship because you wrote about it in your letter. You chose to do that.

Or did you? Did you choose to write about it? Or was it a mind control wave that I was sending to you right now from the future? Yeah. Can't rule it out. Heck yeah. Zip, zap, zop. There it is.

Look, we talked about free will back in verdict number 516. May it please Descartes. And what we determined there, thanks to guests Drea and Morgan, is that sure, we may lack free will. We may live in a simulation. We may all be androids programmed by a super scientist from the future. That's me. We all may be a mess of evolutionary program neurons. But we don't know and we can't know.

And so it's just important to treat each other like whole human beings. We may be in a simulation, but we got to treat each other like humans. Because free will or not, that's how everyone experiences their own lives. Unless I was right all along and you were all robots since I was born. So, okay, Alex and Alex's partner. Thank you for letting me air that out. I hope you're both doing well. 11 years later in, I presume, your new relationships.

Or the same one. I don't know. Do you know why I called him alex jesse why well jesse he's named after the internet conspiracist alex jones who appeared in waking life i didn't know what yeah because it's a richard linclair movie it's all about austin texas and alex jones was in austin texas at that time and i think he had to do, I've not seen this movie. Have you seen this one? No, I haven't. I'm a big, everybody wants some guy. Yeah. It stars Wiley Wiggins of Dazed and Confused fame. And that time that we went out together after South by Southwest and a really lovely person, Wiley Wiggins. Probably best known. Yeah. Yeah. As,

as for having dinner with me and Neilil pollack that night yeah author of the neil pollack anthology of american literature and the illustrator divya srinivasan yeah that was a great night wiley i miss you uh and i look forward to watching this movie waking life i hope it does not blow my mind oh hey and jesse before we move on uh after the episode may it please take heart came out i received a letter from a person named l ashley squires here in the year 2021 this is a contemporary letter and ashley squires is a professor of blade runnerology in moscow pretty much and she wrote a really interesting letter about free will that I will share with you after the credits. Here's something from Troy. Please consider a case similar but distinct from the Chili case.

This was the original Judge John Hodgman case, the Chili case, right? Yes, you're absolutely right, Jesse. This was the first time you asked me if I would be a judge on Jordan, Jesse Go. And the case was between a couple of guys who were at different sides of the argument, whether chili counts as a soup or not. And if memory serves, and it probably doesn't, I said, no, it is a stew or a braise. So what does Troy have to write about then? My friend Scott believes that the hard, shrink-wrapped, dehydrated ramen noodles are soup.

This could not possibly be a soup. It comes just as I described, or possibly in a styrofoam cup, and does not contain any meat or vegetables. The water used to cook the noodles is also drained at the end of its preparation, provided, of course, that the one consuming said noodles has any decency or self-respect. Not only that, the preparation requires merely boiling water, and packages of this pseudo food can be acquired for pennies this is not soup wow pretty classist soup argument there affordability is not one of the definitions of soup as far as i know if anything i mean i think soup is something of an economy food traditionally i mean i i have not read i what you make from your odds and ends.

Yeah, I've not read the history of soup either in the Western world or in the Asian world. I know a little something about the history of soup, John. Please tell me. Originally, a stranger would come to a village and tell everyone that they knew how to make soup out of stones. They would put some stones into a big pot full of water and they'd boil the water and each member of the village

would bring something to put in with the stones and then eventually you'd have soup made out of stones. That was the original soup. When in that story does a stranger open a door and i walk right through it unknowingly there's now there's a second part of this story which is there's this there's this guy who's trying to sell hats right huge pile of hats on top of his yes there's this

straga named nona and she has this guy who works for her named Big Anthony. What Chessie is referring to is some classics of children's literature, which display basically the three stories in all of Western literature. A stranger comes to town and makes soup. A stranger comes to town and sells hats. Yeah. And man versus spaghetti. Man versus spaghetti. Exactly. A child is nude in the night kitchen.

Those are the stories. Yeah, milk in the batter, baby. So, this is, you know, you really put your finger on this is this is a classist argument here because troy seems to acknowledge that ramen traditionally prepared is a soup troy's only problem is with pre-packaged ramen which is also a soup i mean don't be a snob

about it troy the fact of the matter is i went on something of a ramen journey over this winter and more and more in traditional American grocery stores, but certainly in Asian grocery stores, you go in, there are a lot of prepackaged ramens you can find. A lot of different styles, a lot of different flavors. Some of them are very definitely not being made for Western taste buds. And that's because I presume Asian and Asian American people are buying and eating them and believe them to be good food, or at least a fun, pleasurable food, which is ultimately what ramen is. It's a pleasure food. It's not a fancy food. It's a pleasure food.

Jesse, you ever put a slice of cheese in your ramen? You ever do that? No, but that sounds pretty dope. Yeah. I read about that in the newspaper. Put a slice of American cheese on it. It's good. I had coconut milk ramen.

That's hecka good. Where you add the coconut milk yourself? No, I got it from a coconut milk ramen store. Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. Incredible. Apparently, Troy approves of using it just as noodles. Yeah, he wants to say it's just noodles. I mean, you could put some ramen noodles into your stir fry and make a little noodle vegetable

or whatever, but that's a different thing yeah and and you know troy's disdain for people who don't drain the soup from their pre-packaged instant ramen as being what did he call them damnable monsters lacking lacking decency or self-respect yeah that's troy you're wrong lots of ramen is very is very, like all comfort, like all true comfort foods, ramen is personal. You mod it out with a slice of American cheese if you want. You add a few shakes of sesame seeds and toasted nori on top, maybe. Put an egg in it. Put an egg in anything.

It's delicious. Put an egg in it, it's real good, yeah. I've done that. You ever have the Samyang hot chicken ramen? No, that sounds good, though. I'll tell you what, that's not a soup. I'll give you this, Troy. That thing you're not supposed to,

you're supposed to drain out the water. It's more of a stir fry, but it's packaged as a ramen. And that thing is hot, Jesse. It is hot. And don't get the 2X hot chicken ramen because you won't be able to talk to your family for a long time. You're going to have to go and stare into space for a while. It's incredible.

You know who the only person who gets the 3x hot ramen is no buster poindexter he likes it hot hot hot thanks guys wow yeah wow that joke was old in 2010 yeah Yeah, that's the beat. It came back around. Nong Shim Premium Noodle Soup Shin Black 2.64-ounce cup. That's what I say to you, Troy, and I'll say it again. Nong Shim Premium Noodle Soup Shin Black 2.64-ounce cup. cup spicy pot of full flavored ramen is really one of the tastiest soups i've ever enjoyed don't disdain something just because it's on a grocery store shelf some people get it right nong shim premium noodle soup shin black 2.64 ounce you wouldn't call chunky soup not a soup just because it's on a grocery store shelf and is too disgusting to contemplate.

Someone chose to name it chunky. That's a bad decision, but it's still a soup. I always drain my chunky soup, by the way, because I have self-respect. And decency. You know what movie my wife and I watched recently? Is it the movie about ramen? Yeah, it is. But I can't remember.

They showed this at the Coolidge Corner movie theater so many times. I saw four or five times it's called tempo tempo i didn't know that was still around boy oh boy that movie was on my uh my turner classic movies selection in my hbo max and i was like oh we got we gotta watch this uho, look, there are some things in Tampopo that you could read these days as being gently misogynist. It obviously has great reverence for its protagonist portrayed by the director's wife. But, you know, there's stuff from the Western genre and stuff that are cultural differences that I think are a little, have a gentle waft of misogyny. But other than that, Tampopo is basically the greatest movie ever made. If you haven't seen it, it is a Japanese comedy that takes the form of a Western, but it is a Western about a man who blows into town and decides to help this woman create the ultimate ramen shop. And man, it is one of the funniest, most charming, delightful. If you're not in love with that movie after you watch it, you're a monster.

And boy, oh boy, does it make you want to eat ramen soup. I think I know what I'm having for dinner. ramen soup. I think I know what I'm having for dinner. Anyway, I've never been happier than when ramen became a popular fad food in the United States because it is so wonderful. I will gladly eat it. I will eat B-minus ramen all day long and be grateful that it exists in the U.S. And the fact that there is now really good ramen available here is spectacular. It's truly a person, like, and Tampopo is all about what a sort of, like,

deeply, like, emotionally nourishing food it is, that it is a deep comfort food. It is that it is a deep comfort food and Proustian in that way that, you know, I will never think about this winter spent in exile in Maine without thinking also of Nongshim premium noodle soup, shin, black, 2.64 ounce cup, pot of full, spicy pot ofo style flavor. So when I was a teenager, John, my father and stepmother joined the middle class. Now, I'll be clear. They did this because my father got his post-traumatic stress disorder certified as a disability. So that was how we joined the middle class. But when we joined the middle class, we did a couple of great middle class things. We got cable. We got a car.

We didn't previously have a car or a car that worked. And we joined Costco. And from Costco would come basically pallets of ramen noodle, instant ramen noodles, and giant boxes of frozen corn dogs. Wow. And these were foods that we had, as people who had to carry our groceries home from the grocery store in our arms, these were not the kind of foods that we were eating previously. These American convenience foods were not on the

table before. The like living the suburban dream. You can't carry a pallet of ramen home in your arms. You need a car. You need a car and a Costco. Exactly. Yeah. And those were the foods that I would prepare for myself when I got home from school and was hungry. And I do have fond romantic associations with those foods in a way that I don't with fast food restaurants. Frozen corn dog, you said? Yes. Not a sandwich.

Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we leap forward to the year 2011. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I.

Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. With me, as always, Judge John Hodgman. John, do you remember Pete Fields, who was a musical guest on our show

a year or two ago? My childhood best friend, Petey. Yeah. You know what his comfort food was when we were that age? No, I do not. He would walk down Bernal Hill, where he lived, down to the lowlands of the mission district where I lived. He would break into my house

and eat our cereal. He would, like three o'clock in the afternoon after school, he'd get home. No one would be at his house. So he'd walk down to our house, 15, 20 minute walk, break into our house. And my dad would come home or my stepmother would come home and there would be Petey at our dining room table with a salad bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios. Yeah. Because this was right in the Costco time.

We were also getting Honey Nut Cheerios from Costco. And nothing, look, Honey Nut Cheerios, Cheerios are a venerable cereal. Honey Nut, not for me. That's just not the way my palate goes. But I'll tell you, there's nothing sweeter than that stolen honey nut. Oh, that ice cold stolen milk. Jesse, before we leap forward into 2011, as promised, back in 2010, I had not yet issued our ban on food fights. There had been a lot of food fights that came up surrounding the issue of, is a hot dog a sandwich? And after a long time, we decided no more food fights

about whether X is a Y kind of food. But back in 2010, this hadn't happened. And right after we started the podcast, we got a ton of letters, often the same letters surrounding food disputes. And so I'm just going to clear those out of the inbox right now. This is going to clear this docket right up. To Shugo and Patrick and Kevin, cheesecake is a cake. To Sam, ice cream cake is a cake. Polly, you are absolutely correct. And Bill is absolutely wrong. It is fine to eat an ice cream cake is a cake. Polly, you are absolutely correct, and Bill is absolutely wrong.

It is fine to eat an ice cream cake with a fork, just as it is fine to eat ice cream with a fork, as we've discussed before. Ice cream forks are a thing, historically. They're a great way to eat your ice cream, especially if it's salted. You can get four ice cream forks today in the Loxley pattern for only $8.99 a piece at Replacements Unlimited in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Jesse, do you have any ice cream forks in the Put This On shop? No, but I should. I've definitely had some ice cream molds in the Put This On shop.

We should probably commission some Judge John Hodgman ice cream forks. Wouldn't that be a thing? We're going to get so rich. We're going to get doughboys rich. Okay, Lucas, your girlfriend is correct. A black and white cookie is a cookie. You are wrong. It is a large cookie, not a cake. CJ, you are wrong. A Rice Krispie Treat is not a cookie. Your friend Tracy is correct.

It is a bar. Carl, a taco is a taco. It is not an open-faced sandwich. It is a taco. Things can be their own things. Right, Jesse? Absolutely. Also, Carl wrote, quote, as a side argument, the matter of a hot dog being a sandwich was brought in since it is a similar food as a taco and the arguments hold for it as well.

Unquote. Jesse, this was November 10, 2010. This was the very first time anyone brought up as a hot dog a sandwich. And it was in passing in a PS in Carl's letter. It was years before someone else wrote in and I settled that in the New York Times magazine and started this whole thing. Carl saw it coming. If I had handled this with Carl back in 2010, the years of our lives we would have regained

by not arguing about hot dog sandwichness. It's amazing. lives we would have regained by not arguing about hot dog sandwichness. It's amazing. If you're still confused, Carl, or anyone, why, if you want to know why a hot dog is not a sandwich and a taco is not a sandwich, you can hear my final discourse on this subject at bit.ly slash JJHOTDOG. That's JJHOTDOG, all capital letters. And to wrap it up, Adam, your Canadian girlfriend is wrong. Frozen yogurt is not ice cream. And here's a tip. Ice cream is

not gelato. It's got a lower fat content and less air in it. It's served at a warmer temperature. And if you're in Venice, Italy, and you are buying strawberry gelato in Italy, you should just say strawberry. Don't say fragallo because then the woman serving the gelato in Italy, you should just say strawberry. Don't say fragalo, because then the woman serving the gelato will roll her eyes and say, it's fragalo. Don't make the mistake I did.

John, that's everything we've got in the docket from over a decade ago, but do we have any letters of note? Yes, Jesse, we received a couple of non-dispute letters in the end quarter of 2010 when the podcast first started. But really, no one wrote a classic, you're wrong about this, Judge John Hodgman letter until... You're talking about a Judge Wrong Hodgman letter? until... You're talking about a Judge Wrong Hodgman letter? A Judge Wrong Hodgman letter. Thank you, Lila.

We never received a Judge Wrong Hodgman letter until April the 1st, 2011. Maybe it was a prank. But Mike wrote, first, thank you for turning me on to the third man two days ago. That's how long ago I was... Wow.

...flogging the third man. So this is a letter from 1954, huh? The third man was my favorite movie of all time at that time. I talked about it a lot early on in the podcast. It is no longer, I would say, my favorite movie. I don't even know what I would say is my favorite movie. But I would say, I'm going to say this. One movie that is better than the third man. You ready for this world?

Yeah. Into the Spider-Verse for sure. Wow. Yeah. The other day, my wife told me her favorite movie was Lady Bird and her childhood favorite movie was Wayne's World. And I was like,

that's unimpeachable. These are perfect choices. I'm not going to say that. I agree. Absolutely. Those are perfect. Those are perfect choices. I'm not going to say that. I agree. Absolutely. Those are perfect. Those are perfect choices. And I'm not going to say that Into the Spider-Verse is better than The Third Man as a movie.

It's just it's taken a higher spot in my heart ranking. It's really good. Our daughter made us watch Booksmart yesterday, speaking of Lady Bird. And that's a terrific movie. Terriff. Anyway, those are some plugs. And that's a terrific movie. Terriff. Anyway, those are some plugs. I forgot Mike was telling us stuff. Thanks for turning me on to the third man.

Second of all, as for wrapping your arm around a fan. And I think this was in relation to a dispute over getting selfies with famous people. Which was something that was just getting going at the time, and whether it was appropriate to grab and hug them. And I said, rather presciently, don't touch people. Mike said I was wrong. I think it's fine, says Mike, to display a reasonable amount of camaraderie.

Just a few weeks ago, I had my picture taken with Mr. Michael Ian Black at South by Southwest. He put his arm around me, mine around him. Then I thumbed up. I think as long as you're comfortable with the fan, then go crazy. Photo attached for proof of kinsmanship. It's an adorable photo. Mike has an adorable mustache. And I'll say this, Mike, your arm is not around Michael Ian Black, and Michael Ian Black's arm is not around you. This is the trick of memory. I wrote to Michael Ian Black this morning to get his reaction to this photo 10 years later.

And he says, hmm, I think I'm okay with the photo, although, as usual, not thrilled with my face. I blame genetics for that more than the photographer. Arms around each other from my perspective is fine, but I can certainly understand why somebody would not want to be touched because people are gross. Also, I miss you too. That's Michael Ian Black writing back to me. He's a nice man. I also wrote to Mike who sent in this photo. I haven't heard back from him yet. I just sent him a little email saying,

I'm sorry, it's been 10 years since I responded. What have you been doing? We'll see what he says. You know what I would hate? What? Personally. I don't mind touching other people or being touched. So as long as somebody checks in with me,

I think they could put their arm around me if we're taking a picture together. That's fine with me. But for me personally, the deal breaker would be if in the picture we have to be wearing lanyards. I just feel like they're wearing lanyards in this picture and I would just be uncomfortable how there'd be in pictures out there of me wearing a lanyard. Of you wearing a lanyard. But that's the South by Southwest thing, Jesse. Someday we're going to go back to Austin, maybe for South by Southwest. Maybe we'll have dinner with Wiley Wiggins

and Neil Pollack and Divya Sreenivasan, and it's just going to be like it was. Or maybe, you know what? Maybe it's going to be better. Maybe it's going to be better than it was. Yeah. Maybe Griffin and Rachel McElroy will come. Kick it up a notch.

We're going to have fun, everybody. I hope everybody is doing as okay as possible, getting vaccinated, doing what they have to to get healthy and get us to this new and better normal. And I hope that that means soon the three J's, Jesse, Jennifer, and me, John Hodgman, will soon be able to go to Austin and Seattle and all these other cities to eat their burgers and wear their lanyards again. Thanks for letting me take this trip down memory lane. And oh, by the way, Jesse, I have a breaking news flash. I just received word back. I told you that I sent a letter to Mike saying, I'm sorry, it took me 10 years to write back. How are you doing? This person wrote back saying, I changed genders, comma, LOL. I'm Sammy now. So Sammy, I hope you're doing great. Great to hear from you. Everybody's growing this

decade. Everybody's growing in this decade. We're out here coming into ourselves and surviving the nightmare. Thanks everybody for surviving with us over 10 plus years. It's been great to get back to some of we'll get back some other old, old, old docket cases again in the future. But we are going to move forward into into a new and better normal. So fantastic. Our docket is clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

We're on Twitter at Jesse Thor of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. We're on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Maximum Fund subreddit. That's MaximumFund.reddit.com. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. And we'll talk to mention that we ran everything in that segment about Sammy's letter and follow-up by Sammy afterwards. And Sammy gave us the go-ahead to present it as we did. Obviously, dead names for trans people are a big deal,

so we wanted to be clear. We checked and we ran it in the form that they preferred. Now, on to the regular surprise, haha, post-credit sequence. Surprise! It's me, your judge, John Hodgman, here in the hidden dimension of the post-credit sequence. I had mentioned a letter that I received from L. Ashley Squires regarding simulated worlds, free will, Blade Runner, and the Matrix. And it's an incredible letter. And I didn't know quite how to share it because it's somewhat long. So what better place for it than here in this timeless void of the post-credit sequence where we are all disembodied minds here to encounter each other.

So if you haven't seen Blade Runner, see it. It's really, really good. And I think you'll understand why I say so when you hear Ashley's letter. Dear Judge John Hodgman, I'm a few weeks behind. I've just finished listening to May It Please Descartes. And I wanted to suggest that the cultural touchstone that perhaps most usefully expresses your perspective on the quote, is my consciousness fake question is not the matrix, but rather Blade Runner. Personally, I've always found the debates about whether Decker is a replicant to be missing the point. The true meaning of Blade Runner, in my opinion, is that Deckard can never know for certain whether his consciousness is real, whether his memories are implants,

or whether he is a machine cruelly created for the purpose of destroying his own kind. Because at the end of Blade Runner, Eldon Tyrell, his creator, aka God or whatever, is quite literally dead, murdered by his own creation in an expression of profound existential despair. The question is unanswerable. But what matters is not whether Deckard's consciousness is real. It is real for him. Those memories, implanted or not, as Rutger Hauer tells us, are precious and meaningful and singular, like life itself. Deckard's decision to take Rachel and run has always represented for me the decision to go on living and treasuring life, regardless of the answer to that, am I a real person or not question.

And with all due credit to the Wachowskis for their marvelous filmic achievement, I think the matrix has had a somewhat pernicious influence on the culture at large when it comes to this issue. Whereas Blade Runner says that you can never know if your consciousness is real, but life is precious anyway, the matrix says that you absolutely can know for sure. And that if you are simply the bravest and purest of all human beings, you too can know the absolute truth of existence and thereby gain superpowers to be used not only against the robots, but against the consciousnesses of the people still in the matrix who might at any moment be used by the system to thwart you. It isn't an accident that red-pilled is the byword of neo-fascists. And while that usage is no doubt based on a tendentious and self-serving reading

of that film, I do think its central metaphors leave a bit too much room for that kind of epistemic overconfidence. Doing my best to keep it short and failing beautifully, Ashley Squires. Thank you, as always, for your wisdom, aw shucks. Thank you, L. Ashley Squires, Director, Writing and Communication Center, Assistant Professor, Department of Humanities and Languages, New Economic School, Moscow, Russia. Yeah, watch Blade Runner.

Watch The Matrix too, but watch Blade Runner. Maximumfun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned, audience supported. Blade Runner. Watch The Matrix 2, but watch Blade Runner.