Judge John Hodgman - Episode 696: Road Court in New York City

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

Viola and Doug have been married for 17 years. Yet, Viola says Doug never proposed to her! How can that be? Plus, movie disputes with Dan McCoy and Stuart Wellington from The Flop House, a dispute about bulk toilet paper, and Social Media Manager Nattie Lopez has a case of her own about Pringles!We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/lovegiblet for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court is happening NOW! Get your tickets at maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne and with me is Judge John Hodgman. Hey, we have a very special episode this week recorded just recently on the very first stop of our Judge John Hodgman road court tour. It was in New York City where we had a great time bringing justice to the city winery on the West Side, didn't we, Jesse? We had cases involving engagements gone wrong, toilet paper hoarding, Pringles, big Pringles case,

biggest Pringles case in the history of our show. And we had very special guests, Stuart Wellington and Dan McCoy from the Flophouse. If you wanna know what wine goes with Pringles, you're gonna wanna listen to this whole episode. Meanwhile, the road court is taking a break for the holidays through the end of the year, but we will be back soon to bring justice to the Pacific Northwest and West Coast at the end of January and the beginning of February.

So if you like what you are hearing today, remember we don't release the full live show experience on the podcast. There's a lot of stuff that goes down that you will never hear unless you go and get your tickets now at MaximumFun.org slash events. Let's go to the stage at City Winery in New York City. People of New York City, you asked us for live justice and we are here to deliver it. The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session. Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome to the stage, Doug and Viola. Tonight's case, I now pronounce you Roshamon and wife. Doug brings the case against his wife Viola. Viola and Doug have been married for 17 years. And yet Viola says that Doug never proposed to her. But Doug vows, I did. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom

and delivers an obscure cultural reference. Let's say your millionaire is an American who's very stingy. And he goes to an apartment store in Nice on the French Riviera where he wants to buy a pajama top, but just the top because he never wears the pants. She has come to the same counter to buy pajamas for her father, who as it happens, only wears the pants. And that broke the ice. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Doug and Viola, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? We do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his wife is a whole human being in her own right? Well, I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his wife is a whole human being in her own right? I do. I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. And I did actually propose to her before I had gout. That's when you want to get it in there. Sneak it in before the gout. Before you get gout. That's when you want to get on your knees and propose to the person you love. But in the meantime, Doug and Viola,

you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment and one of your favorites can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced when I entered this courtroom here at City Winery in New York City. You must be Doug. I am Doug. Why don't you take a guess, Doug?

I'd like to defer to my wife. Nope. I'm sure you would. Okay. I believe the Jonathan Swift essay, A Modest Proposal. A Modest Proposal. A modest proposal by Jonathan Swift. That's wrong. It's an interesting guess. I'll be the judge. Thank you very much Viola. I notice that you're holding a scroll which makes me

very nervous. I'm sure you're worried it's a scroll of fireball Yeah, perhaps you're going to cast a spell on me. I'd like to know Viola, what is your guess? I have no idea but I'm gonna guess F John Fitzgerald's a Diamond as large as the Ritz Yeah, F John Fitzgerald's the guess is F. John Fitzgerald's A Diamond as Large as the Ritz by F. John Fitzgerald. F. John Fitzgerald's A Diamond as Large as a Fist.

You mean F. Scott Fitzgerald. Sorry. Why don't you do it again? So when the recording. Well, it's supposed to be obscure. All right. I've heard enough. Good job, Viola. All guesses are wrong.

I, in fact, was quoting from the director Billy Wilder as interviewed in the Paris Review in 1996, describing the 1938 film, The Eighth Bride of Bluebeard, which is supposedly the beginning of the romantic comedy tradition of the meet-cute. I think it's Claudette Colbert and Gregory Peck meet-cute in that because he goes shopping for pajamas tops. She wants pajama bottoms and then they fall in love.

And I bring it up because you two are in love, I hope. Most days. Okay, very good. And you met Q, didn't you? Well, we met at work. We were both many, many years ago, 30, maybe 30 years ago at this point, that I was, I'm an optician. She is an eye doctor. There we go. You were working in the same spot?

It was same location and I worked with this. What was the place, you can buzz market it. Well it's not there, it doesn't exist anymore. Oh okay. There's a lot of optometry content in the work of F. Scott Fitzgerald isn't there? No, F. John Fitzgerald. F. John Fitzgerald, right.

What was the name of the spot? What was it called? It was called Gruen Optica. Gruen Optica, my favorite F. John Fitzgerald novel. Or Novela, I guess. So anyway, I kind of freelance between, there was a number of stores in this chain. I freelance.

She worked at one particular location. So my first time at this location, I was introduced to the doctor. and I was used to doctors, eye doctors being gray-haired grumpy old men. Right. Like this. Like you, right. And this little young…

Opticians see thyself. Yes. And this young pixie-haired, short-skirted, very adorable, cute… It was not short. Comes around comes around and I just remember thing. I feel like we're filming an interstitial section of When Harry Met Sally. Yeah. So it just, my brain went, huh. And just kinda popped in there.

Is that how you proposed? Hey, my brain went, huh. Well we didn't, I didn't propose, which I did propose, by the way, but I did propose. Did you or didn't you? I believe I did. Are you married to Viola? I am. For how long have you two been married? Seventeen years.

Seventeen years. And Viola, are you married to Doug? I think so. And yet he never proposed to you. That is correct. How did this immaculate conception of a wedding happen? At the time we were not married, we were working together, but we were a couple, and a bus went by, and there was a big bus ad

which had a bracelet, a kind of puzzle, diamond encrusted bracelet, very interesting, and she noticed it and said, oh, I like that, that's kind of nice. And of course I put it in my brain, Christmas present, got it. I go to the jeweler and turns out it's not a, it's not a bracelet, but a ring.

I believe that we have some evidence submitted, a photo of this so-called puzzle ring. I believe so. Yes, there it is right there. Now what makes that a puzzle ring? It's two pieces. It comes apart. Oh, you're wearing it currently?

Yeah. Oh, may I? Sure. Oh, this is very adorable. It's a little puzzle. Look at that, Jesse. It's a little puzzle ring. That's right.

Let's give it back now. So anyway, so I went to go to buy a bracelet. It turns out it wasn't a bracelet because it was a giant round thing on the side of a bus with no fingers or wrists or anything else to. Would you say that it was enlarged to show detail on the side of the bus? I would think so, yes.

So I bought, so it was a ring. So now I'm like, well, I guess I'll buy a ring because ring, bracelet, they both mean the same thing, right? They all have the same symbolic meaning. Yeah, of course. Right. So on Christmas of that particular year, I presented it with a little box and said absolutely nothing and handed me the box.

What did you think? I said, what is this? He said, it's a Christmas present. So I said, OK, and I opened it and it was a ring. And I looked at him expecting something, but nothing came. So I said, oh, thank you, it's a lovely ring. I like it very much and I proceeded to wear it. Are you wearing it now where you would normally wear a wedding ring?

Yes. Okay, but this was not a proposal in either of yours minds. I didn't think so, I thought a man could give a woman a ring and mean nothing. You could have said that to her. You could have said, well, a man could give a woman a ring and mean nothing. You could have said that to her. You could have said, well, a man can give a woman a ring and it means nothing. Happy Christmas. It didn't occur to me at the time, but... It sounds like the whole problem here is you didn't clarify that it meant nothing to you.

Communication is important in a non-marriage. You have to explain what means nothing. When did this relationship stop meaning nothing to you? Okay. I disagree with that characterization. However, a number of you... Doug, I have a sub-question here. Doug, this ring is a puzzle ring. It's in two pieces. Correct. Were you aware of any particular significance of rings with two pieces? That there might be some symbolic significance to that in particular.

Great question, Bale of Jesse. Thanks. Thanks. None whatsoever. Okay. Are you aware of any significance, Jesse? There could be significance to that, John. What is it?

I don't know, it's a puzzle to me. One could be an engagement ring and one could be the wedding ring. Oh, Doug, why didn't you think of that? Well, one wouldn't wear half a ring. Yeah, you would until you get married, then you put the other half on. Agree to disagree.

That's why the two pieces fit together. Is that the purpose of a puzzle ring? He definitely bought an engagement and wedding ring set. Ha ha ha. Now, I will say, at the time, One Piece had diamonds, One Piece did not. We've upgraded since in the subsequent... It's sort of like an engagement ring and wedding ring set.

Anyway. Viola, when Doug was talking to our producer, Jennifer Marmer, in his own defense, he did say that it's a little bit challenging to propose to someone who has said, I never want to get married again. Well, I was married and I had two children. And one of the problems is the first time I got married, I also didn't want to get married. But that person, who's a very nice person, never asked me.

He just sat at a table with about 40 people in his family and he stood up and clinked on a glass and said, my own are getting married. And I was shocked. That's how you found out? That's how I found out. And from your point of view, you said to yourself, if I were to ever get married again,

I might like to be asked for once. Yes. And also Doug knew this. Doug, did you know this story? That story, as well as the story of, I never want to get married again. Now, fast forward, we were in a vacation. We were in Curaçao, a lovely beach.

Sure. We were with the children. There was a conference there that we were attending, but we were also having leisure time. And we're sitting there. What was the Curacao conference? What? What was the conference in Curacao?

An optical conference. This is why eyeglass frames cost $700, by the way. Because they're sending everybody down to tropical islands. To be fair, there were no eyeglasses involved. It was a dry eye conference for optometrists. Doug was invited solely to help me watch the children while I went to lectures. We're at the beach.

We're in two hammocks. It's a beautiful day. It's a lovely day. Wonderful. Everything is perfect with the world. I'm very, very happy. And I'm quiet. So I said...

Well, she gets the dreaded question we all love as married men. What are you thinking about? I didn't want to tell her what I was thinking about because I was thinking about wanting to marry her. However, she did not want to be married ever again. So she said, and I respect her opinion. Right. However, so I was quiet, not responsive, so she again said...

What are you thinking about? Yeah. And I said, I think I want to marry you. Oh. Oh. Wait, you were in a hammock? I was in a hammock, yes. Where were you, Viola? We were sitting on our rail watching the kids play in the water You were was dug in a hammock or no no hammocks were involved Is the rest of the story he's told so far accurate not exactly okay go on Clarify, please he said I'm thinking I might want to marry you which is different That's true materially different than I'd like to marry you, which is different. That's true. Materially different than I'd like to marry you. I'm thinking I might like to marry you. And what did you say?

I didn't say anything. I got up and walked away. How long ago was this? Well, we're married 17 years, so 18 years. 18 years ago. Are you sure you're married? There was a judge involved. Okay.

Did you discuss this with anyone? What had happened? Well, when he came back into the room, he said, I said, was that a serious question? Because you know, I actually want to, I don't want to get married. And if I ever got married, I would love to have someone propose in a formalized plan manner. Mm-hmm. And so... Not just buying something off the side of a bus.

Or, you know, finding a shell on the street. Or murmuring from a hammock. Mm-hmm. So I said, look, we'll have to ask the kids, because I figured they wouldn't want us to get married. Right. How old were they at the time? I have...

I brought evidence to know. Oh, here comes the scroll. I'd like to enter these into evidence, please. We have some late evidence here. Jesse, these are some photos. The reason it's late is that Doug told me that I could enter evidence about three hours ago. Doug, you need to communicate more with your wife.

Exhibit one. These are your kids from your previous marriage? Do you have kids together or no? No. No. Note ring on left hand is puzzle ring given prior Christmas without proposal. There we go.

These are adorable kids. Thank you. Exhibit two, this must be in Curacao. Here's Doug. That's the dinner where we ask the kids. Oh, okay. So you ask the kids at this dinner. Yes. And we'll put these

images on our show page and in our Instagram account as well. Forget your permission to do so. And Doug's looking pretty smug. Pretty good about himself here because what happened to dinner? So we said, I said kids, Doug asked me to marry him. What do you think about that? And so my son said, I think it's about time. And, and okay, so Doug, you don't look smug here, according to this caption, we have a gloating son who said, I think it's about time. And then a perplexed man who still hasn't proposed. Correct.

But at this point, the intention was in the world. I mean, you're talking to your kids about it, right? Yes. And your son has it, right? Yes. And your son has endorsed this project? Yes, but the question at stake here is, did he ever propose? Did he ever propose? Did you give her a ring with the intention

of proposing, Doug? Not at that time. Okay, did you ever give her another ring? I did. Do we have a picture of that ring? I believe so. Let's take a look at that. That's not the ring.

That's not the ring. Well, they're both that ring. There are two rings. There are two rings involved. All right. Let's go back to the first ring. Right. You said, that's not the ring.

What ring is this one? That is her engagement ring. That is her engagement ring. Yes, however, okay. Some point I felt I really should finalize this. Let's get a ring. Yes. However, okay, at some point I felt I really should finalize this. Let's get a ring. Yeah. So I found this ring in a local vintage shop.

Right. On Curaçao? No. This is years later. This is about ten years later. Doug, what are you doing? You discussed marriage with your stepchildren 10 years ago in Curacao, and now you're wandering through a vintage shop going,

yeah, maybe I should get around to that. We're already married at this point, by the way. Well, how did that? When did the marriage happen? 17 years ago. What did you exchange when you got married? Bracelets? No, wedding rings, although...

The same ring. Yeah, well, I got a wedding ring. You got a new ring for yourself. For me. And you're like, honey, you got that great puzzle ring. It'll be perfect given that I don't know that it's a wedding ring. Right. What, do you want some other ring?

I'll buy you one in 10 years. Now, we did have a wedding ring. We exchanged rings, different rings, this ring and another ring, which he is not wearing. I see. However, after the fact, I figured, well, I should get her an engagement ring, a true engagement ring.

Right, after the fact, meaning a decade later. Yes. Okay. Better late than never. Well, I agree. Okay, so. This next slide. So that is the engagement ring. Right, and agree. Okay. So this next slide. So that is the that is the engagement ring.

Right. And you bought that. I bought that. And how soon after you bought it, did you give it to her? Years. Because I'm going to make this story quicker. I'm cleaning the house one day and sometimes I get really annoyed because it's all cluttered and most of the clutter is his short.

So I'm pulling out drawers and throwing stuff out. And there's some jewelry boxes. So I just like open them to make sure there was nothing in them before I threw them out. Right. And I opened this one, see that and quickly close it. And I figured, oh, he must have gotten me a ring. I don't want to see it. Right. It's gotta be a surprise.

He's finally gonna, he's finally gonna pop the question 10 years after you were married. So I put it back and they don't say anything. Right. And what, and what happens? My birthday passes. Our 10th anniversary passes. We're on a trip with the kids in Europe and some friends. And I finally can't take it.

It's like a year and a half later. So I'm telling them, my two girlfriends, you know, I was cleaning and I found this ring. He still hasn't given it to me. I have no idea. And I really, I think it's a nice ring. I didn't get a long look at it, but I like it. Like, what do you think I should do? And they said, maybe it wasn't for you.

I mean, I was, I didn't want, but I mean, I mean, I've read enough, am I the asshole on Reddit? I've read enough true off my chest on Reddit to a first jump to the conclusion that maybe Doug has a secret family in Curacao or some other far-flung opticians resort that he gave, but the ring was still there. He just never gave it to you. Right. I did not give it to him.

I was convinced I was given the wrong ring, and she would hate this ring. You were convinced you were given the wrong ring by the jeweler? That's correct. You know, the normal thing when you feel like you've been given the wrong merchandise is to hide it for two years. Well, I wasn't sure. What was...

He never returns anything. Anyway, I was terrified that she would hate this ring. So when did you give it to her? When did you decide? It's a very lovely ring. Well, let's go to the next slide. Okay. Here's another ring.

This ring, this was a stone that she had was given to her by a family friend. More rings than the Olympics. Yeah. What is this, the Olympics? Yeah, what is this, the Olympics?, what is this the Olympics? How big is this circus in terms of rings? This that's the last dragon so so she had this stone that she loved was given to her by a family friend and but was just a little loose stone so I decided to have that kind of stone. What kind of stone is that beautiful stone? What is

it? What kind of stone? That's a citrine. Yellow stone. A citrine. A citrine, yeah. All right. And it's quite large. It's definitely a cocktail ring. Like a flintstone style ring. Okay. So I think it's our anniversary, right?

Yeah, it's our anniversary and he takes me out to this really nice restaurant in Brooklyn on the water. And we go have dinner and then we are out in a dark, scary park in Brooklyn on the water. There's no one else around. He gets down on one knee and takes out this box and opens it and I see that enormous cocktail ring and I immediately close it like, are you crazy? You're going to get mugged.

Like put that away. No one's coming for Citrine, a Brooklyn waterfront park. Hey, let's get out there and see if we can scare up some smoky cords. Unbeknownst to me, she was already aware of the other ring. Right. Right. Plus it was the wrong ring. You still haven't given, at this point, you still haven't given the diamond ring, traditional

engagement ring. Yes. Instead, you're fobbing off the citrine on her on the waterfront and she doesn't even know about it. What did you do then? What did I do then? When did you finally give her the other ring? After we had a confrontation about the fact that she found the ring. Well at that point I felt like I had to ask, where is the actual ring that I want that I found in your drawer?

Did you give it to someone else? Yeah, and what did he say? I said no. I had given it to someone else, obviously. I was concerned that you wouldn't like the ring, so that's why I didn't give it to you. Because you might have gotten the wrong one by accident. That's correct. After it all came out that I had a ring, she was aware of the ring, everyone was aware that I had a ring that I haven't given her right I gave it to her two months later two months later for Christmas to complete the circle right okay that's the circle because the puzzle rate was a crit was a Christmas ring okay yes not an engagement ring a Christmas ring and when you gave her that ring

Did you say will you marry me? I believe I did can't remember It's been too many years. You also believe you were in a hammock in Curacao. We now know that that's a myth Why do you think it was challenging for you to simply say will you marry me Doug? Well, because she didn't want to be married. If you were to have me rule in your favor, Doug, it says here that you'd like me to acknowledge that you did propose. It just happened in increments. Sure. A wedding proposal was accreted.

I mean, Viola, you are legally married, correct? It did happen. The marriage seems to be successful and fun for both of you, right? Yes, Your Honor. And so it does seem that somehow an agreement was reached that you would be married. Yes. But you don't want me to say proposal by increments is okay. You would rather me rule what? For the benefit of all women that would like to have an actual formal proposal,

I would like you to rule that proposal by increments is not okay. And was there a time? Yeah, I think that that deserves a round of applause. But my question is, was there a time when you clearly said to Doug, I would like you to propose to me? Now, look, I think that it's a reasonable expectation that he should, without being told what to do. But you know Doug.

Well, see, he's really good at a lot of other things and doesn't really need to be told to do them. Name one. And actually, he's really good at a lot of other things and doesn't really need to be told to do them. Name one. And actually, he's a good dancer. Well, he's a good dancer. Okay, so, but you never told, you never said to him, look, this is dumb at this point. You're giving me all the wrong rings. You're not giving me the rings.

I just need you to, I just need you to propose to me. You never said that to him, right? Correct. Did he say, will you marry me when he gave you the final ring yesterday, Viola? I honestly can't remember anymore. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my chambers. I can't kneel down anymore.

So I'm going to disappear. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. All right, Larry. Doug, how are you feeling about your chances in the case this evening? as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. All right, Larry? I'm gonna go. Doug, how are you feeling about your chances in the case this evening? 50-50.

50-50? Yeah. All right, I'll take that. Viola, how are you feeling? I feel great. I feel like the fact that the judge called for a round of applause in honor of your position may have indicated something about your chances

I guess we'll find out won't we please rise as judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and you don't have to you don't have to rise you don't have to rise sitting down is great I just realized sitting down may be the best thing there is certainly better than getting down on one knee, wouldn't you say, Doug? Even without gouts. My knees aren't what they used to be. Sitting is more comfortable, isn't it, Doug? It is very comfortable.

Being in a hammock is more comfortable. Very comfortable. The comfortable hammock of 17 years of a committed marriage is more comfortable than making the big gestures sometimes, even when you know that you should. I mean, here's the thing, Doug's a good husband, right? He's a wonderful husband. Wonderful husband, a great dancer, sharp shoes. You hate his shoes, but I like them, it's fine.

And this is the only major issue in the marriage that you would bring at least to a live podcast taping, as opposed to couples therapy. Sure. Sure. Yeah. That's all we need. I appreciate that the big gestures are hard, you know, and when I proposed to the person who is now my wife and is a whole human being in her own right. It was after 10 years of dating

and I suspect she was wondering why I wasn't asking. And when I made the decision to do it, I hyperventilated five times that day. And when it happened, I had an asthma attack. It's a really, really challenging gesture, even if you've known and technically been married to the person for almost two decades. But when someone you love, right, has made it clear to you that there is something that they need from you in order to complete the circle, or the ring, as as it were of this emotional journey. I think that it's kind of on you to actually do it. And I would say that if Viola says to you

in no uncertain terms or even in some moderately certain terms I really want to be proposed to, the answer kind of can't be, I think I did. Do you know where the remote is? So I am going to suggest, nay, order, that you get down on one knee and propose to her right now. Doug knew immediately to get that mic out of the stand. Doug, do you need a hand getting down?

Well, I guess I do. Getting down is not an issue. Getting up is not an issue. Okay, well you know what? He's your husband. You give him a hand. Viola, I love you. Will you marry me?

Sure. Let's give them both a hand. Viola and Doug, this is the sound of a gap. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. We have some really wonderful special guests here. Really wonderful special guests. Who the heck are they? Well, you might know them from our Maximum Fun Sister Show, The Flophouse.

The Flophouse? A comedy podcast about bad movies. Please welcome to the stage, Dan McCoy and Stuart Welling. Dan and Stu to the stage, Dan McCoy and Stuart Welling. Dan and Stu to the stage, if you please. Why, there's Dan. And here comes Stu slowly. Stu's milking it. Milking it.

Yeah, we've all seen your muscles, Stu. Yeah. Stu has muscles now. Hey guys. I was just watching you guys on the television backstage. Holy cow. Yeah, see Jesse, we are on television. Yeah.

We did it. Close Circuit Television stars Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. You're so much bigger in real life. Thanks, Dan. Dan and Stuart, you have a podcast called The Flophouse. You are two-thirds of that podcast. The third person is Elliot Kalin, also known as the co-host of I,ius, a podcast about I Claudius that I co-hosted with him. But he's not here. He could not be here. We left this empty stool to represent him. In any case, tell the folks who might not know about the Flophouse what it's all about. As we say on it, it's a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it. Although as I've gotten older, I feel more and more guilty about that description because

I'm like, Oh, but is it bad? I don't know. Yeah, you're like, Oh, I think everybody worked on it had fun. Yeah. Trust me, I understand. Judging is for the young. That's why I gave my job up to that child. What's the best bad or worst bad movie you've seen recently? Recently? Do you have one? I don't. I was going to say like all time and I was going to say the Bratz movie. Yeah, the Bratz movie. Which is directed by the same guy who directed that Ronald Reagan

movie that's in theaters. Yeah, Sean McNamara made both Bratz and Reagan and a bunch of Baby Geniuses direct to video sequels. Holy cow. He likes John Voight, I think. So he likes John Voight. Yeah. And that makes sense. It's his guy.

And so we went to the internet and we asked them for some of their most contentious movie disputes. Best movies, worst movies, hot movie takes. So, wait, do people on the internet have opinions on movies? Strangely, when you ask them, yes. And they wrote in, and we're going to share a couple of them, and maybe you can help us decide what's right and what's wrong.

Okay. Jesse, do you have one? Here's one from Laura. She says, I say Silverado is a better Western than Tombstone. My friend Ben says, I'm wrong. Please tell me I'm right. And order that we have to watch Silverado annually. Also, Ben must dress up like a character from the film

every time we watch it. This was a Western film written and directed by Lawrence Caston. Lawrence Caston. He's got Kevin Kline in it. John Cleese is in it. Danny Glover, I believe. All hunks, all hunks. All hunks.

Scott Glenn, yeah. And is Kevin Costner in it or no? Did he get cut out of that one too? He was cut out of the big chill. A young Kevin Costner. A young Kevin Costner. I've never seen it. Have you seen it? Yeah, it's great. I saw it in the theater.

I mean, it was great when I was like six and saw it in the theater, right? Okay, and it's probably I I think the most recent time I saw it was great too. And again similar to tombstone It's got a lot of hunks in it. So I'm star right. So hunk factor tombstone break it down. Who do we got? Bill Paxton's in there Paxton Kilmer powers booth Bill Paxton's in there? Paxton. Kilmer. Powers Booth. The top hunk. Yeah, Michael Bean, Kurt Russell. Yeah. Hunk for hunk.

Sam Elliott. I mean, it's all hunks and mustaches. Hunks and... Hunk stashes. Yeah. I would say based on hunk level alone, which is hunky, or tombstone, or Silverado? Oh, God.

That is the one. Is Kevin Costner up? Is there Jeff Goldblum in it? What's that? Silverado, I think, might have it. Jeff Goldblum's in Silverado as well. Huh? I think in this house, that just, that tips any movie.

Yeah. I knew my audience. Pure shirt with sex appeal, sure, but Jeff Goldblum hunk? Debate. Jeff Goldblum hunk? Yeah. Earth girls are easy. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. The fly pre fly transformation. Transformation is

still cool. Mid and post transformation. I do it. Yeah, I'm not gonna yuck or gum. I'm not saying that there isn't some sinewy deliciousness to Jeff Goldblum. I'm just saying Sam Elliott is a hunk. Yeah. Sam Elliott is a former People Magazine sexiest person alive. Is that true?

That's true. Of course. Former isn't like this year. I mean, is it? Are you ever truly former? This is a good point. It's a permanent. It's like being granted a dutchie.

Okay. So we haven't answered the question yet. truly former. This is a good point. It's a permanent. It's like being granted a duchy. Okay, Val Kilmer So which movie is better? I think, look, this is an unsolvable problem. Yes. This is a matter of personal taste. And also, I believe that these are, you know, vaguely equitable, like Dan is showing why you can't do John's job. Here's the thing.

I think that these are this is a matter of personal taste, but I do believe that Ben needs to dress up every time they watch Silverado. And do they have to, so you're suggesting a split decision. Yeah. That neither movie is better than the other, but they do have to watch Silverado once a year. Yeah, there's gotta be cosplay.

Okay, Stu, do you agree? I was, I mean, I said Silverado was a movie that I loved when I was six. And because I'm basically still six years old in my head, yeah, I'd say Silverado is the better movie. Annual Silverado cosplay, it's a dream. Rami says, my wife Jordan says that Goldie Hawn is more famous than Kurt Russell, but I think Kurt Russell is more famous.

Who is right? The rule is divine. Who is right, Dan? Who thinks Kurt Russell is more famous? I'm gonna guess based on what I heard out there, they think rutabagas, rutabagas, rutabagas. Who thinks Kurt Russell is more famous? I heard peas and carrots.

I heard watermelon candle, a watermelon candle. Who thinks Kurt Russell is more famous than Goldie Hawn? Who thinks Goldie Hawn more famous than Kurt Russell? Stu or Dan, can you make a case for Kurt Russell? Well, he wasn't in Wildcats. I mean, both of us are Pisces, so I like that. Here's Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell by the numbers a little bit. I looked it up. Goldie Hawn, surprisingly, on IMDB has like 38 acting credits in total.

Kurt Russell has over 100. And it's definitely quantity over quantity. Well, on the other hand, Goldie Hawn has an Academy Award and Kurt Russell does not. I think this is a matter of different audiences because if I were to ask my wife for whom the First Wives Club is a much more important film than the thing is to me, you know,

say she would say Goldie Hawn, I would say Kurt Russell. Wait, did Kurt Russell get a nomination for Captain Braun? Yeah, sexiest eye patch. Did he have an eye patch? I can't even remember. Yeah, probably. Goldie Hawn was also in Captain Braun, correct? That's one of their overlaps? Overboard. Another nautical theme. Right. Jesse Korn, you got a way in? I mean, Goldie Haan never owned a minor league baseball

team with her dad and grandpa or whatever. That's Kurt Russell. Yeah, that's Kurt Russell. What minor league baseball team do you own? The Portland something or others. Yeah, the Portland something or others. I was on an airplane with Kurt Russell. Guy was the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life. But I'll tell you what, Goldie Haan's more famous. Kurt Russell is a child actor and a B actor by heart.

All right, sorry Kurt, that's Colty. All right, this is the last one. This person wrote in saying that he wanted to be known by a pseudonym, specifically the pseudonym fake name. Fake name says, my fiance is cursed with a lack of nostalgia we're the same age, middle aged, but she watched very few movies as a kid whereas I watched a lot of movies as a kid and whenever I want to watch a movie from my or our youth,

she refuses saying she can't share in my nostalgia, please order her to watch Uncle Buck. I am amazed that this is the one movie that they're choosing to shoot their shot with. I mean, maybe it's because there's no other reason than nostalgia. Like it's fine. That's for you, the princess bride.

I feel like this is a trick to get his wife to make him giant pancakes. Put together an Uncle Buck party and invite your partner, fake name, and maybe she'll enjoy it. Maybe she won't. Maybe she'll attend. Maybe she won't. Maybe you'll never see her again. Either way, you get to watch Uncle Buck Dan Stewart, thank you so much. Thank you You can listen to the flop house on maximum fun new episodes twice a week now, right? Every Saturday, it's either a main episode where we talk about a movie that we've heard as bad or a many

Quote-unquote many episode that's often as long as the other ones that is just kind of us doing a topic We found funny. It's a lot of fun and I listen to it all the time and there's a there's a Flophouse t-shirt guy right up here in the I know that guy Also, you can find me at hinterlands bar and min Minnie's Bar, both located in Brooklyn, the bars I own, please come. They're terrific bars. Thank you. All right, Dan and Stu, thanks so much.

Listen to the flop out there, everybody. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case and we need to take a break because we got to spend some time fulfilling those orders for Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage shirts. Yes, those Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage shirts are selling like hotcakes smothered in poutine. It is a limited time reissue of a Judge John Hodgman classic. You can get our famous Canadian House of Garbage logo on either a t-shirt, still the most popular t-shirt that I see in the wild, or now a brand new Canadian

House of Garbage and Pizza cold beverage insulating koozie. Keep your beverage cold and your hand warm. And also we have those new Weird Mom t-shirts and bumper stickers over there at the MaxFun Store. Go check them out at maxfunstore.com for those and even more gift ideas for your favorite podcast fan. And speaking of gift ideas for your favorite podcast fan, if your favorite podcast fan is on the West Coast, well, great news, a perfect holiday gift for them

is tickets to the Judge John Hodgman Road Court Tour, which will be traveling the length and breadth of the West Coast, including Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles at the end of January and beginning of February. You can get tickets at maximumfun.org slash events. And John, guess what? What? I just had May, just got back from our sewist,

our seamstress, some new old, put this on scarves. They're made from antique Japanese silk that is narrow woven. So it's dual selvedge, both sides of the finished edges from the fabric. And then the short sides, you know, both sides of the finished edges from the fabric. And then the short sides, you know, the ends of the scarf are hand finished, hand rolled. They're in the Put This On Shop right now. They're really special and a beautiful gift for someone special

in your life. So go to putthisonshop.com and you can find them there. That sounds amazing. Go get those things that put this on shop.com, maxfundstore.com, maximumfund.org slash events. You can do all of your holiday shopping in the next seven minutes and then just enjoy the holidays. But meanwhile, let's get back to New York City. New York City, believe it or not, we have even more justice to dispense. Let's bring out our next set of litigants. Please welcome to the stage, Jeremy and Joanne. Our case, a plea of not

quilty. Jeremy brings the case against his girlfriend girlfriend Joanne. Joanne wants him to stop ordering stuff to be delivered to her apartment. Specifically, huge amounts of toilet paper. Jeremy says it's necessary and he wants her to accept his expression of ultra plus triple ply love in bulk. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom

and delivers an obscure cultural reference. Oh. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 12 stars. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Jeremy and Joanne, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever? I do. Same. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that we're the only podcasters in the world who've never been sponsored by a bidet company and gotten free bidets? Yes. Judge Hodgman you may proceed. It's true I pay for my bidet. Every day. Jeremy and Joanne you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your's favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Joanne, what is your guess? It sounded like a biblical reference. A biblical reference? Like Corinthians 12. I don't know if that's the right word. Corinthians 12. They're Bible words.

One of the rare sequels better than the original. Corinthians 12. They're Bible words. One of the rare sequels better than the original. Corinthians 12, Bible verse. Jeremy, what do you think? Bible verse or no? I was going to say something Abraham Lincoln wrote. Judge Hodgeman, is Corinthians 12 the one where they added Jason Statham. And Ludacris rounds out the cast.

Something that Abraham Lincoln wrote. Like in the Gettysburg Address he started talking about, what was it, a woman who has a crown of 12 stars and the moon under her feet. It sounded rousing and poetic. It did sound rousing, didn't it? It's Revelations 12.1, Revelations 12.1. That's the one that the rock isn't in. Yeah.

The reason I quoted the book of Revelations is because one of the great brands of toilet paper is Charmin. And Charmin is owned by Procter & Gamble. And until the mid-90s, this was the Procter & Gamble logo. And this Procter & Gamble logo had been around for, oh, 100 years. But only around 1980 did evangelical Christians

start to say that this is a perversion of the Bible verse, Revelation 12.1, and being used by Proctor and Gamble to represent its primary affinity, which is to Satan. You can see that there are 13 stars, not 12. Proctor and Gamble says that's to honor the 13 colonies. Each of which needed toilet paper. And then there is this this guy, this moon, which is the moon from the verse, staring at the 13 stars and he seems to have ram horns at either end of him and down here at about the three, four, five o'clock area there's some curls in his beard which some people say are in the form of 666.

Now in the 1980s everything was satanic. There was a lot of talk about whether like Blue Hawaii the Elvis movie was maybe satanic. That was what was going down. This was during the so-called satanic panic. You weren't even born yet. What's going on here? Who-called satanic panic. You weren't even born yet. What's going on here? Who seeks justice? You do. You don't want this toilet paper, do you?

I do. Thank you, Your Honor. You're welcome. So it's true. Look, I concede that indeed we all do need toilet paper on a regular basis, but... Speak for yourself. Thank you. It's a popular issue.

I live in a New York City apartment. I think having six to 12 rolls of toilet paper at a given time is probably reasonable, and I live alone, although Jeremy does come to visit from time to time. I can only store so much at one time, and I have no qualms about running down to the local bodego or CVS and picking up a reasonably sized package to carry home. Indeed, having New York City serve as your larder and your stock room, that's one of the joys of living in a city. You don't have to have stock up on stuff so long as civilization exists, which is I think for another 19 months.

You can just go and get the toilet paper when you need it, as needed, right? Exactly. But Jeremy is ordering, how much toilet paper does he order? Okay, I've actually known this one time. Okay. But I did order from Sam's Club

a package of 45 rolls of toilet paper delivered straight to her building. Upon her request, or you're like, this seems nice. I thought it would be thoughtful. 45. A 45 pack. 45 count, yeah. Is kind of larger than a toilet. It's larger than my bathroom.

Is larger than your bathroom. What move do you- That's what they call a plumber's dozen. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. I want one. What moved you? Did you consult with Joanne before you did this?

OK, so it was about a year ago. I love that answer that begins with OK. OK. OK. OK. And she kept kind of coming up in normal conversation of, oh, I forgot, I'm running out of toilet paper. I gotta go get to the, go to the store.

I have to remember to buy toilet paper. And I thought I could solve this problem in a really thoughtful manner. And one of the things that she had also shared at the beginning was how much gifts and thoughtful things like that was one of her love languages. So I thought, well, two birds, one stone.

And I have the power of a Sam's Club membership. So I sent it without her permission. And I thought it'd be kind of a funny surprise. Two birds, 45 rolls of toilet paper, I think is the saying you're looking for. It is kind of like getting 45 precious rings. Yeah, you can wear them all at once. When the toilet paper arrived at your house unbidden as a surprise, was Jeremy there or did it just show up?

I was completely alone in my home. A massive box, unlabeled, no name, appears at my doorstep, and I'm left to fend for myself with 45 rolls of toilet paper. What do you mean no label? How did it get there? Oh, the power of Satan. Yes. It materialized in my home, and I was frightened, yes.

You didn't know where it came from? No. That could be scary, honestly. I was frightened, your honor. Sincerely? You would lie to a fake judge, would you? I swore an oath. How did you find out that it was Jeremy who had sent it to you?

If I'm being honest, I had my suspicions after a moment when I opened the box and saw what was inside. So I texted it to him and said, this you? Sure enough. That's you to speak for, is this you, or are you responsible for this toilet paper? Thank you. Thank you. So happy I could understand your slang.

Did it make you feel very loved and very sexy to receive all this toilet paper? I felt like a woman, your honor, but a woman who apparently uses a lot of toilet paper. How long ago did this happen? A long time ago, about what, six months or so? Six months? Six months or so. That's a long time for young people. I mean, to be fair, she's probably still working on that toilet paper.

Well, I was going to ask. How many rolls are left? I'm not going to ask. I totally am. How many rolls are left? I'm not going to do any calculations. I disposed of the last one last week. I just restocked. Wow. Thank you.

Thank you. What do you pay for a 45-pack at Sam's Club? Like $25? It's a pretty good deal. That was genuine applause. These people are paying bodega prices. Did it ever occur to you that you could order the toilet paper to your house and you could just bring over a couple of rolls from time to time as needed?

I actually did not think of that. Interesting. I thought I had been married for 25 years. How long have you been dating? About two and a half two and a half. Yeah, so a tenth of the time that I've been in my relationship You've been in your relationship take it from me Keep the toilet paper at your house. By the way, we live separately my wife and I live separately And I bring toilet paper over when she needs it

That's not true. Joanne. Do you have do you have any shame in carrying toilet paper through the streets of New York City? None whatsoever, Your Honor. In fact, I find it a uniquely unifying human experience to make eye contact with someone and say, yeah, it's TP Day. And I'm okay with that. That's very empowering. Yeah, you should applaud.

So what do you want me to rule? That he never bring you toilet paper again? To be clear, I never said that. I just wanted him to not judge me for my choices. And if he wants to bring TP into my home, that's okay. As long as it's not judgmental. Okay, I'll think about this while I go into my chambers and rest quietly for a moment. And I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ugh! Jeremy, Jeremy, how are you feeling about your chances? Not too good. How about you, Joanne? I could see it 50-50. I think fair arguments were made of both sides. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom

and presents his verdict. All right. I'll keep this quick. Jeremy, your heart was in the right place. Your toilet paper was in the wrong place. Don't buy things in bulk for people, even people you love, without asking them first. No matter what the product is. It's okay for

Joanne to get her own toilet paper. It's also okay for you, and I think it's important for you, to start walking through the streets of New York with toilet paper in your hand more. You've been here for three years, you haven't learned yet, no one cares what you're doing, nobody's thinking about you. Maybe some people are like, that guy's carrying toilet paper, what you're doing. Nobody's thinking about you. Maybe some people are like, that guy's carrying toilet paper, what a cool dude. You need to get over that. Now, I'm gonna bang my gavel,

but I don't want you to go away, because there's another case I understand that we have to hear involving you, Joanne. Unfortunately, yes. Okay, so I'm gonna do a little gavel bang, and then we're gonna get right into that. So anyway, Jeremy, you understand don't do it again? Never again. Never again. Check first. I'll bite me So anyway, Jeremy, you understand don't do it again? Never again.

Never again, check first. I'll fight you. Right, check before you buy in bulk. Okay, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, now don't go away. You can applaud them. But before we let you go, Joanne, I understand that you have another dispute

or someone has a dispute with you. I did not know that you are friends with, at least for now, our new social media manager, Judge John Hodgman, Natty Lopez. Is that correct? That's correct. The beautiful Natty Lopez. Natty Lopez, are you here in the house?

Natty, come on up. Here's Natty. Woo! Are you here in the house? Nattie, come on up. Here's Nattie. Nattie Lopez, Judge John Hodgeman, social media manager. Soon to be former friend of Joanne. Perhaps this will end the friendship, I don't know. First of all, Nattie, thank you so much for all the great work you've been doing on the Instagram and all the TikToks and everything,

all the social medias, you're wonderful. Thank you. She made us do improv games backstage. It was, yeah, it was, she was like, what's your pre-show warmup that you do? I was like, well, I usually take a nap until I drink a five hour energy drink. And then I run up and down the hall for a while.

She's like, great, I'll film that. Then she said to me, hey, Jesse, what's your worst nightmare? And I was like, do improv games with John. Guess what? Your nightmare came true. You can check it all out. Thank you, Nanny. So Nanny, you've met Jeremy before? Yes.

OK. And you know Joanne. Yes. Who are you primary friends with? Jeremy. Jeremy, right. Because you went to college too, didn't you? With Jeremy. I sure did. Well, we're not gonna talk about that anymore. That's for a reunion. Sorry about that. But your beef is with Joanne. But I love Joanne. No, I understand. But your beef is with Joanne. Her beef is with me. What is the nature of the dispute?

We have a fundamental disagreement about whether a certain favorite snack of mine is acceptable to like. And that snack is pizza flavored Pringles. Pizza flavored Pringles. Yes. And specifically, this came up in the context of a road trip. Is that right, Natti?

Yes. Tell the story. So we hadn't known each other that long. And Joanne made the gas station stop for some snacks. Where were you going? I don't know. Upstate New York. Yeah.

OK. Sounds plausible. Was Jeremy there too? Yes. How much toilet paper did he bring? 45. 45. Works every time.

That's an old person joke. And you ran out to the gas station for some snacks, and I was ready for anything that Joanne does, but she brought back pizza Pringles to share with the car, and I just, I was baffled. It's not a shareable snack. Because why? Because they smell bad. Because they smell bad. In fact, when Jennifer Marmer was corresponding with you about this, you wrote to her

Wokua Wokua Wowa. What does that mean? that's a keyboard smash well that's not a word that's a keyboard smash meaning you just you hate it so much you have to smash the keyboard yes so those are just the random letters yes they symbolize your distress at the smell of the pizza Pringles. Yes. Mirabelle, you know what a keyboard smash is? Does that mean anything to you? She does. OK, good. Jennifer Marmer, could you bring out the Pringles, please?

Thank you. We have here a basket of and including here the pizza Pringles right now. Jesse, would you like one? I mean, no, but for the sake of the show. You say that the smell is bad? It's got a very zesty nose. Joanne, I'm sure you would love one. It's abrasive.

Can you smell them now, Natty? Um, no. How did you express your disgust on the road trip once the pizza Pringles were in the car? I said, you're no longer a ten. It was murder. That really took me by surprise. To be fair, I was the nicer of the bunch.

There are three other people that I'm representing tonight that were also in the car. They were all grossed out. Yes. And some of them said even... Jeremy is so-so, but they're... I'm truly Switzerland here. I did not... Sure.

Well, you already knew you were on probation because of your toilet paper stunt. Now are all Pringles disgusting? No. Would you say that cheddar cheese Pringles are not disgusting? They're fine. All right. Maybe eight? Seven? Where are they? I think solid seven point five. Solid seven point five? All right. What about sour cream and onion? Five. Oh. That's the canonical Pringle. Everyone's... No question about it. That's the canonical Pringle. No question about it. Everyone's getting some applause for the sour cream and onion.

What about Plain? Ten. Ten. Okay. I'm going to do a taste test to discern which one is the most disgusting. I'm also going to discern which is the most delicious, but the only way to do that, of course, is to do a Pringle wine pairing. Which one goes best with Judge John Hodgman red-style wine?

Jesse, will you help me pour some wine? Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug. All right, I'm gonna try one of these pizza Pringles. Now, did you know that Pringles originally were a product of Procter & Gamble? That's true. That's why they're called the Devil's Communion Waiver. Cheers.

Okay. It tastes sort of like a stale pizza goldfish to me. But I feel there are notes of barbecue there. And they are smelly. And maybe for an enclosed car, too much. Like for example, you can't have beef jerky in a car unless everyone's on board. You know what I mean?

That really stinks it up. Also, Taylor pork roll, it turns out, will make my daughter vomit in a car. Turns out. I mean, I'm having it in a sandwich, not just gnawing on a log of Taylor pork roll That's a dream that has not yet come true for me Now I'm gonna pair that you want to pair that a little bit with the wine and see how that goes good

First of all, this is a delicious bottle of wine and I don't drink a lot of wine. I'm going to now Honestly, I feel like I'm going to try a regular Pringle. See, the wine overpowers it. Do you know what I mean? For better or worse. I'm going to try a cheddar one. You said no on cheddar in the car, right? It didn't come up, but I probably would have said no. I've never smelled them, though. Oh, here you go.

Huff them chips! That would have been fine for the car. That would have been fine. And then sour cream and onion is the best Pringle. I actually have been yelled at by my seven-year-old for bringing home non sour cream and onion Pringles. Would you like a sour cream and onion Pringle? I would.

I mean, I got to say, Maddie, we love you and team Judge John Hodgman. And you're not wrong about the pizza Pringles. With respect, Joanne, people like what they like. That's the least, the least of the Pringles as far as I'm concerned. It's not for me. And I think that you got to not have smell the Pringles as far as I'm concerned it's not for me and I think that you gotta not have smelly Pringles in the car you can enjoy what you want in private and Jeremy you know if you're thinking of like a birthday or holiday gift I bet you can get a bulk a lot of pizza

Pringles in bulk and I would would say that, but it's very clear that sour cream and onion is top Pringle without question. Who would deny it? But does it go well, does it pair as well as the pizza Pringle with the Judge John Hodgman red wine? There's only one way to find out. He's poured the wine into the Pringle jar.

It's being swirled. He's nosing it. It's got a very oniony nose, an oniony bouquet. And he drank it. Cheers to justice, everyone. Thank you very much. That's delicious. Thank you, Joanne, Jeremy, and Nattie. Thank you so much. Take your wine with you on your way out. That's a gift from us to you here, Judge John Hodgman. Another round of applause for Natty Lopez. I'm filling it on social media.

Bring us firmly into the late 20th century. That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Our thanks to Reddit user Lovegiblet for naming the case in this episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. We're on YouTube and TikTok at JudgeJohnHodgmanPod. Hey, we received another rave review and indeed five stars over on Apple Podcasts,

this time from listener code named Sometimes Blues. They call the show Top of the Pods. And Sometimes Blues also says, quote, there's really no equal in the podcast world. I will pause other podcasts in progress and switch to judge John Hodgman. If I see there's a new episode and quote, that's amazing. Thank you so much. Sometimes blues and to everyone who's left to review and a five star rating on

Apple podcasts. If you listen on Apple podcasts, why not go over and leave a review and dare I say five stars right now? It really does help listeners discover the show. Apple podcasts. If you listen on Apple podcasts, why not go over and leave a review and dare I say five stars right now? It really does help listeners discover the show and the same goes for Pocket Cast, by the way. You can also leave a comment on this episode in Spotify or you can leave a comment on our YouTube channel at Judge John Hodgman Pod. All of those likes and comments and reviews and shares really do matter to us personally and also help people discover the show. So thank you. The Judge John Hodgman podcast was created

by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne. This episode recorded by Matthew Barnhart. Natty Lopez is our social media manager. AJ McKeon edits the podcast. Daniel Spear is our video producer. Our producer, Jennifer Marmer, will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.