Judge John Hodgman - Exit Partay

Episode Date: October 30, 2013

An introvert and extrovert face off - who gets to decide when to leave the party?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, exit partay. Jason and Amber are a married couple. Jason is a pediatrician. He interacts with the public all day and is naturally an introvert. His wife Amber is at home all day but thirsts for social interaction. Their dispute, when they're out together at a party, who decides when to leave? Well, only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. You came all the way out from Brooklyn for this? Yeah, yeah, I did. So what do you do? You know, Jesse, I'm an internet judge. Are you? Let me ask you something. Where do you get your verdicts?

I hear a voice. What kind of voice? A man's voice, but he speaks in German, so I have to get a translator. How come you keep tapping your head? It's a nervous tick. I'm on L-DOPA. On the other hand, you take a guy like George Washington Carver, the man devoted his whole life to the peanut. Imagine having so much passion for something.

I've often wondered if he ever worked with the pecan. Yeah, me too. Now, is that considered a nut? Because I know that cashew is a legume, but the most delicious nut is a satsuma. No, Jesse, that's not even a nut. Just swear them in, will you? Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he hasn't felt the need to attend a party since a Halloween celebration in 1977? I do. I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. You may be seated, Jason, Amber. Welcome to the court of Judge Sean Hodgman. For an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you name the piece of popular, I dare say, popular culture

that Jesse and I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom. Jason. I'm afraid, Judge, I cannot. Amber. I know that I've heard it, but I couldn't even take a stab. Take a guess. Take a guess. Take a guess. You can't be punished for taking a guess. The legume part was very familiar.

Are they brothers? Just be quiet for a second, Jason. Amber, you can't be punished for taking a guess. Just take a guess a second, Jason. Amber, you can't be punished for taking a guess. Just take a guess. Steppenwolf. Nietzsche. I don't know. No, you're wrong.

And I'm throwing out your case. Jason wins. You can be punished for taking a guess. I guess. Seinfeld, you guys. Seinfeld. Season three. Episode 10eld, you guys. Seinfeld. Season three, episode 10. The Stranded.

I knew I had heard that with the... It's when Seinfeld, Jerry Seinfeld, and Elaine Bennis have worked out a signal for when someone is bothering them at a party, when they need to get out of a conversation at a party. And it's to pat their head. I can't believe I missed it. I know. You see what I'm saying?

I should have had that one. Yeah. You really should have gotten that one. Now. Yes. Is a cashew a legume? Is a cashew a legume? Yes.

No. No. Of course not. It's a fruit. It's a nut. It's a fruit. It's a fruit. It's a seed. It's a seed of the fruit of the cashew tree. Does it grow like a peanut under the ground? No, it grows. It is the seed of a hanging fruit from the cashew tree. A peanut. That's a lie. A peanut is a legume i think now i need to know hang on a second peanut legume a peanut a peanut is a plant and the peanut grows under the ground a peanut is a legume

gosh darn it but you see a cashew you see cashew fruit that's hanging from a tree and it's got this green well i'm just gonna spell it out for it out for you guys. It looks like a small green poop coming out of the bottom of it. That's the seed. You knock that off. You dry it. You roast it. It becomes a delicious cashew. Not a legume.

Get it together, writers for Seinfeld, a show that's been over for 10 years. That episode probably goes back 15 years. Oh, my goodness. Okay, Jason jason amber you guys are going to parties together you have a dispute over when to leave the party you are married people is that correct yes jason how long have you been married oh 11 years 12 years 12 years 12 years and 12 and i noticed i noticed that you sort of mumbled and you kind of spoke into your collar because you are a self-described introvert. Is that correct? I am.

You hate parties. You hate talking on the phone. You hate talking on podcasts. No, I mean, that's not completely true. Well, you hate parties. I hate big parties. All right. Amber, you take Jason to big parties because you love to party, right?

I enjoy a good party. I enjoy doing things socially. It really doesn't matter the size of the social function. It can be small or large. Jason can find a problem with it if he chooses not to be there or not to want to be there. He's a stick in the mud. He's a wallflower. Oh, well, only

with me. No, in his work life, people are crazy about him. Oh my gosh, Jason's amazing. He's the greatest doctor. We love him. He's hilarious.

He's awesome. What is it like being married to Jason? He is awesome. He's awesome. What is it like being married to Jason? He is awesome. May I presume that he is like an amazing bartender at a beachside resort or maybe a skydiving instructor or a surf pro? No, he is a pediatrician. He's very good at what he does. He's a pediatrician. Number one party specialty in all of medicine.

Yes. Life of the party for eight to 12 hours a day. Stick in the mud after that. So at the practice, Jason, what are you doing? Are you having macarena contests down there at the practice? Oh, you know, making cocktails, Mai Tai parties, that sort of thing. Oh, hey, easy, easy with the wisecracks there. I thought you were supposed to be the introvert. That's the party line. Well, I mean, to be a pediatrician, I think to be a doctor, Well, I mean, to be a pediatrician, I think to be a doctor, there has to be a sort of persona that you have that allows you to kind of get along with kids.

I mean, if you just sort of walk in the room and you're like, hey, how you doing? I mean, the kids are going to flee. And that's part of why I've been part of why I've been. I really want your doctor's persona, though, to be the guy who goes, hey, how you doing? Walk in and there's an eight year old there. Hey, how you doing? What's up? What's up?

Sort of like a bartender in a noir film. Hey, kid. What's the problem? What's the deal? No, but I mean, he actually is a man child. I'm in his office right now. It's filled with comic books and

Legos and action figures. Yeah, well, you understand that those might be for the kids. No, these are not the kids. Yeah. No, no, these are not for kids.

These are his sacred possessions that children are not allowed to touch. In fact, we have a room at home where he's placed items and he put a lock on the door. So when kids are around, they can't go in the room and play with his toys. Do you guys, did you say,

did you say my kids or do you guys, do you have kids from a previous relationship or our kids? I didn't hear, I didn't hear what you said. No, no, our, our kids.

And I also cut hair. So I have a lot of friends that kids are constantly running around in our house. Right. And so other people's children, he doesn't want other people's children playing with his toys. Our children, of course, know they are not allowed to play with dad's toys. They have been traumatized into submission.

They call him. No, they don't. No, they don't. That would have been so great. But Jason has a vastly different personality when he wants. He truly has two sides to the coin here. Right. Your kids have been traumatized into submission because they know if they get out of order, all of a sudden, uh-oh, it's time for another whooping cough shot. That's right.

Wait a minute, Jason. Yes. We were originally talking about you being an introvert, but now I realize that you have a whole array of mental disorders that we need to discuss. What kind of – This is a textbook. Let me just work down my list now so I can go into the diagnostic manual for introverted nerddom. What kind of comics are you reading? I'm a Marvel guy. Matt Fraction's Hawkeye?

Yes or no? No. Nor Silver Age. Oh, boy. All right. So what are you looking at there? Well, I was... Marvel 2-in-1 with Ben Grimm the thing?

I have Marvelous... Benjamin James Grimm. Benjamin Jacob Grimm. Yeah, I've got volumes one through four of Marvel Essentials on my dresser, to be sure. Uh-huh. All right. But you're reading albums, you're reading collections, you're not reading the original comics, you're not a collector. on my dresser to be sure. Uh-huh. All right. So you read, but you're reading albums,

you're reading collections. You're not reading the original comics. You're not, you're not a collector of the originals. All right. No, I, I mean, I've got a couple of,

in my office right now, I got a couple of old journey in the mysteries and things in here, but, but most of the time I just, I'm not going to spend my children's inheritance on old comic books. No, you're not. So you're not a collector.

You're just a guy who enjoys reading that stuff. Yeah. You're just, you're just naturally juvenile. Yes. No, believe me, that's,

I take that as a, or I present that as a compliment to you. The people who try to cover, cover up their juvenilia with, it's a collector's edition type of thing, that's not for me. You're talking to a guy who just read The Infinity Gauntlet on his iPad the other night, because I don't have time for real books, apparently. But I got all the time and money in the world for comixology reprints of avengers

from the 70s all right and i know and i know the infinity gauntlet wasn't from the 70s guys i meant the crease girl war geez kind of and you got a lot of legos that you don't want your kids to touch no not a ton i mean mean, I've gotten all the new Marvel collections. I mean, because I think about it that my eight-year-old brain would have exploded if somebody told me someday I'd be able to have an Iron Fist

Lego or a Hulk Lego or a Nick Fury Lego, for that matter. So those are the ones I have. It's not like I'm just the Marvel collections. How old are your children? Eight and six. Boys or girls?

The older one's a boy. The younger one's a girl. Do you read comics with them? Do you do Legos with them? I do attempt to, yes. What foils your attempt? Your shyness? No, no.

Each of them have the... Both of them have the genetic makeup of their father and a similar attention span at times. Okay, but you are sharing... You are sharing toys with your children, but you have special Legos, special sets that you've built

that you do not want your kids or a bunch of scamps from the haircutting salon coming down and messing with. Yes, that's a very fair assessment. A bunch of salon ruffians. Yes. Right, okay. Now, what's your problem with parties, Jason? I mean, you don't like to go to parties. Yes. Right. Okay. Now, what's your problem with parties, Jason? I mean, you don't like to go to parties.

You'd rather be home building a Quinjet than talking to other adult humans? Home building a Quinjet, reading old Target, Doctor Who paperbacks, all sorts of stuff. Sure. Yeah, of course. All right. But, I mean, I have friends,, all sorts of stuff. Sure. Yeah, of course. All right. But, I mean, I have friends, and I like hanging out with friends. The idea is, though, that I have a shelf life which is decidedly shorter than what my wife's is. And, I mean, I can be at a party for a while, but after a while I start to get, for lack of a better term, antsy. And so I start to get, for lack of a better term, antsy. And so I'd like to depart. And it's not that I'm, the other thing that's difficult too is, as Amber said, the two

sides of the same coin. At work, I'm more of have an extroverted sort of personality. I'm more comfortable in that position. So it's easier for me to act that way, and it's certainly more natural. It's not an affectation. But then when I get to a party where I'm not quite as comfortable with the situation, well, then I sort of fade back a little bit. And that, Jason, certainly pales in comparison and is a stark contrast to the quote unquote Jason that everybody thinks that I should be when I'm, you know, out being casual and on the town. Let me ask you this very plainly. Is the case that when you, well, let me ask a couple of questions and I'll ask that hard one in a second. Uh, how long is your shelf life at one of these parties when you want to leave earlier than Amber does?

Oh, I'm going to say, well, depending on, well, it's dependent, Judge. I mean, I would say on average, Amber, you can yell if I'm wrong, two hours. So you think it's reasonable to stay at a party for two hours, and then you are ready to go? Wrong, sir. Wrong. Excuse me, Amber. I'm asking Jason. Yeah, I mean, I think that I'm, all right, I'll say it this way. I think I'm at my best for an hour, hour and change. And then I start to kind of drop off after that point. And after two hours, I'm it's a precipitous fall.

You go crawl under a crawl pillow and start, start fitting together Lego bricks that you've smuggled in by yourself. You go climb and climb under a table and start, start making danger rooms out of canapes. That'd be awesome. But yes. Yeah, no, I feel you. What kind of parties are you taking him to, Amber?

Well, my best friend, Kirsten. I love her, by the way. She is great. Thank you. Her husband, Jason, also Jason, is a good friend of my Jason's. We travel and spend a lot of time together. So these are close friends. We went to her graduation party. And a friend pointed out to me that he played Candy Crush the entire time he was there. Was this a party? Clearly antisocial behavior.

Was this a party? It was a party. Like how many people were there? 30. 30 people at a bar? Yeah, in a separate room with food and cake and other proclivities. Is that true, Jason? Jason Prime, the one I'm talking to right now,

not alternate universe Jason, who is married to Kirsten. Is that true, Jason Prime? Did you play Candy Crush all the way through that party? Well, no, that is not true. The Earth One Jason was there at the party, true. The Earth One Jason was there at the party, greeted the honored guest, said hi to his friend Jason from Earth Two. And what I ended up doing. So I was not going to do a thing where I was going to just sort of take up all of my friend Jason's time where he'd have to sit around and babysit me and talk about the weather or something like that. He had obligation to talk

to his friends. I wasn't going to just sort of sit at Amber's elbow because that gets her a little bit anxious at times that I'm actively wanting to leave because there's not much that I will add to conversations sometimes that she has with her friends. So I took what I thought was the best sort of route to try to get myself in an inconspicuous, unobtrusive sort of place and just sort of hang out, which everybody else kind of took as antisocial behavior. Did you feel that other people at the party noticed your behavior besides Amber? Oh, I'm sure that, I mean, anybody who's a study of human behavior would have noticed that, but I don't know. I mean, it wasn't as though I was sitting in the corner corner of the room facing the corner itself with a bottle of bourbon.

I mean, there were people around and it wasn't, I mean, I didn't feel as though people were all staring at me. That's for sure. Amber, did anyone come to you and say, what's up with, uh, what's up with your hubby? Yes. And that's exactly what I'm getting sick of doing. Like what's wrong with Jason? I'm sick of making excuses for him. Is that what they say? Who said to you, what's wrong with Jason? Um, people go, what's, what's wrong? What's wrong with Jason? Why is he? Is something wrong? Is he mad? They pull me aside and say such things and then I have to go, no, that's who he really is. Welcome. Jason, you know there's another alternative to sitting in the corner

between hanging around your wife and hanging on her arm essentially going, come on mom, let's go. And hanging around your friend and going, you know, why are you talking to these people? Why can't we be talking more, a little bit more about Luke Cage? You could go out and you could talk to some of the other people who are there and see if you have anything in common with them. Oh, yeah. the other people who are there and see if you have anything in common with them oh yeah me have something in common with these other people well at a party of 30 you know he knows

at least 10 of the people that were there he could have gone and chit-chatted but i just that's not where his interest lies well i mean it's not as though I'm an insular guy. I mean, I have, I mean, I know, I have knowledge of lots of things. I can have, I can have conversations, small talk with tons of people on any variety of subjects. I really think I could. I, it's just that sometimes I just, I don't know. I, is it, I don't know. Is it, when you see a party like that, sometimes they kind of separate into groups.

You know, these are the people that know her from this. These are the people that know her from this. These are the people that know her from this. And then all of a sudden sort of insert yourself in there and say, you know, hey, guys, what's going on? You know, it's can. Well, I wouldn't use that. I wouldn't use that tone of voice. I don't know. Like, what if you're talking

to a group of bumpkins? Why don't you just use your... Why don't you just use your... I wouldn't go, hey guys, what's going on? Why don't you just use your regular pediatrician bedside manner and go, hey kids, what's up? What's up, kid? What's up?

How you doing? I don't think you even have to say anything. I think you just do a double thumbs up, say, hey, and then run your comb through your hair. Wait, you've got the snap. And then chicks will come under his arms

immediately. So, why don't you just leave? I guess that the reason that is, is because somewhere in yet another diagnosis, I think I'm doing my wife a favor by simply occupying space in the same vicinity that she is, you know? I'm sorry. I didn't understand. I honestly didn't understand what you were saying.

You're saying you're doing your wife a favor by occupying the same space that she's in? Yeah. Yeah. You know? I mean, like I said, it's just, I mean, it's probably, it's. Was that part of your vows? I promised to occupy the same space. If I could just,

if I could just touch the hem of his pants, I know. No, I mean, it's not part of that. How long, how long, how long was he engaged with humans before going into his candy crush?

K hole. Hey, congratulations. Eat some food, order a drink, maybe talk to his friend Jason for a little bit. And then he just sat down and inverted. He puts off a certain look and posture that says, I'm busy, don't talk to me.

Oh, yeah, well, I think staring at your phone is a pretty good way of giving off that impression. Yes. Yes. That is not how I remember it, however, Jeff. Well, how do you remember it? I remember it as we got to the party where things were started and we're going fine. And we got in there like kind of, I mean, we weren't certainly the first to be there. I did have some people that I know that were there. And then after I said

hello to the host and her husband, I saw some other people and I spoke with them for, I think, 15, 20 minutes. And then I sort of milled around and, and, uh, sat, uh, stood at my wife's side, um, while she was talking to some friends and then I kind of milled around some more and then I sat down. I don't think that I, I don't think it was just a sort of 10 minutes and then I'm back on my, in the chair. That certainly doesn't seem to be what I, how I recall it. Did you bring out the, did you bring out your phone and start playing the video game in the middle of the bar? Yes, I did. How often does that happen? More often than I'd like, but so frequently.

That does happen. It seems like that's my sort of go-to sort of to avoid. Would it be your preference to just leave? It actually would. I mean, I don't... Yes and no. It'd be my personal preference. Like if I had been at that party by myself,

I would have said, all right, I'd say goodbye to some of my friends. I would have said, I've done what I wanted to do here. I've said hi. I've congratulated. I'm going to be heading on out of here. Yeah. But it's a thing where my wife wants to stay a little bit longer and do that. So I do stay. How would you describe being an introvert? Is this a concept that you've given a lot of thought to? Is this a concept that you've given a lot of thought to?

Well, some. I mean, I understand what a kind of weird or an odd sort of character it is to have somebody where I don't feel as though I'm being fake in either situation. I think that I'm comfortable at work and around children and parents, and I am more outgoing, and I do feel a lot more comfortable in that situation. But in terms of when it comes to these larger social situations, then I'm not. I mean, Amber mentioned, too, in terms of introversion with me and our friends, Jason and Kirsten, that we do go on vacations with them, and we have. And we've gone on vacations with these folks for four years or so. And these are not like short day trips off to an apple orchard. I mean, these are four or five day trips, and never, never do either one of them say, where's Jason? He's hiding somewhere. No, I'm always with everybody. We're always doing things together. I enjoy their company and I have a good time and no one thinks that I'm aloof or anything like that. But in that case, in that case,

all right, thank you. In that case, though, when you're traveling, it's just like the four of you or a small group? Yes, absolutely. Amber, why do you think he's able to be more social and the life of the party among his co-workers and sick children than among your mutual friends? I think because he's in control of that situation. He is the leader. He is the doctor. People look to him for advice. He gives the final answer on something. And so he feels very comfortable. He's in charge of that situation. How would you feel if he were to simply leave the party rather than sit there and play the video game? Well, it's getting to the point where that's what I want him to do because it's embarrassing to me to have him not function socially. Well, wait a minute.

Do you feel, you know, when he describes going on vacations with Kirsten and Earth 2 Jason, and he describes being engaged and involved in the vacation. Is that true or is that false? That's true. We have a good time. It's not that he is socially dysfunctional. There are certain situations in which he does not want to and chooses not to engage in the way that you would want him to. Is that right? I'd say that's correct. Right.

I just, I basically don't want to make excuses for him. I think if he wants to leave, then he needs to just say, hey, I'm out of here, rather than hang around. And then people pull me to the side. What's wrong with Jason? You know, what part of the day? What part of the world do you guys live in? Nebraska. So you guys need, do you have two cars?

Because you need to drive around in Nebraska, right? Oh, your honor. We have four cars. Three of them are Jason's. They're all Jason's. And 81 Bronco. Whoa! Why was that not the lead?

Yeah, he's a fun, awesome guy. And basically, when he's willing to put forth so much effort at his workplace to be the life of the party. Amber, Amber, Amber, Amber, Amber, I'm going to give you a lot of time to talk and make your case. But right now I need to talk to Jason. What's up with this 81 Bronco? What color is it? It is tan and brown. Yeah, 1981, tan and brown. How long have you had it?

About a year and a half now. Oh, so it's a recent acquisition. You're not just collecting Legos. You're also collecting vintage SUVs. Two years this month, Your Honor. Chase is not real good. What did you do? Did you have a birthday?

This feels like a midlife crisis vehicle. I did the 40 thing this year. So this was in anticipation of 40. Yes, I suppose. I actually saw the vehicle. My friend Kirsten and I were driving down the road. Oh, he let you see it? I saw the vehicle in a driveway.

Oh, this is before he bought it. I thought you were saying, I've actually seen this vehicle that he owns. Like, he locks up his Legos and he hides his Bronco. This car was in a driveway. And I said, wait, stop, turn around. We went back and we looked at it. I said, Jason will own this by the end of the weekend. I'm going to tell him about it. And he's going to get it. Now, see, that's the thing. Like you say that with such a short assuredness, but in nothing in the way Jason has presented himself, whatever suggested to me that

he was a guy who, when you saw a Ford Bronco, he's like, Jason's going to own that. What is it about him that wants to own, that made it so clear to you that he was going to own that Ford Bronco? Does he buy things on the spur of the moment a lot of the time? Is he a deranged millionaire? Is he someone who loves to collect cars? Is he a hoarder?

He's not a hoarder yet. He is deranged. He's just very quirky. He likes things that he likes. He wants things only for himself. No one else is driving around in an 81 Bronco and taking videos of themselves driving this 81 Bronco set to music. That's just for him. He says 90% of my humor is just for me. And it's an ironic thing. It's a little rusty. He's a physician. He could buy expensive vehicles. He wants to be a blue collar worker. He wants to be somebody that can jump in this 81 Bronco and right off into the sunset. Wait,

what music does he set the videos to? What was it? Tangerine dream. Say tangerine dream. It was not Duran Duran. Did you say Duran Duran? He loves Duran Duran. This is embarrassing.

I said tangerine dream, but Duran Duran would This is embarrassing. I said Tangerine Dream, but Duran Duran would be even better. It was Molly Hatchet. Because it was in the 8-track player. Have you ever listened to Roadrunner by Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers in your 81 Bronco? It does not come in 8-track,

I believe, Your Honor. I think our listeners are going to try to find this for you and get you a copy as soon as possible. What other vehicles do you drive? Okay. I drive a two. What about, are you buzz marketing, sir? I just need to know the vehicles that you drive.

All right, all right. A 2007 BMW 3 Series and a 2005 Ford Mustang. And those three cars are your cars? Yes. Amber, what do you drive? I recently acquired, two weeks ago, a 2014 black Honda Odyssey minivan with the vacuum in it. Very excited. It has a vacuum in it?

What? Yes, the Honda Odyssey minivan with a vacuum built in. So it's like one of those old apartment buildings that has a little port down by the baseboard that you just hook up a hose to and it vacuums it out? There's a shop vac in the back with a hose that reaches all the way to the front. I want one of those too. I'm going to come. Yes, it's awesome. Where in Nebraska do you live? We live in the capital, Lincoln, Nebraska.

I know the capital of Nebraska. Thank you very much. Come visit. I will come visit, but you won't see me. You're going to go to bed one night and you're going to wake up and you're going to be missing one 81 Bronco and one 2014 Honda Odyssey vacuum edition VE. And the only thing left on your doorstep will be an eight track of road runner by Jonathan Richmond and the modern lovers.

My calling card as a sneak thief, but he's got, he's got the beat. Like, you know what he's got he's got the beat like you know what he's got he's spending his money on crazy vehicles he's doing the he's doing the wealthy physician thing okay amber yeah what would you rather have him drive this embarrassment to you this human embarrassment to you this guy who cannot this guy who can't party as hard as Jonathan and drives cars that have a little bit of character. What would you have him be? What would you have him drive? What would you, what kind of person would you have him be? I'm fine with his vehicles and fine with his choices. He's the one that, you know,

we have a three car garage. He has to park one of the vehicles outside the garage. You know, we have a three-car garage. He has to park one of the vehicles outside the garage. That's been difficult for him. I'm fine. I found the vehicle for him and knew he would purchase it. I love more than anything for Jason to be happy, truly happy. You should hear what I did for his 40th birthday.

I should hear it. You're right. Tell me. Well, Jason's favorite major league baseball player as a young man. Wait for it, Jesse. Was Ozzie Virgil Jr. of the Atlanta Braves and Phillies. So, go ahead. Sorry. Well, that's all I get from Jesse Thorne.

My expert on baseball. Yeah, Ozzie Virgil's pretty good. It's no Steve Jelts. If he said his favorite player was Steve Jelts, I would have been rolling on the floor. Well, again, like the 81 Bronco, Jason chooses to love things that only he loves. So not everybody in the world is going to pick Ozzy Virgil catcher to be their favorite baseball player, to buy their cards, to troll the internet, etc. for him. He loved Ozzy Virgil. So for his 40th birthday, I got into contact with Ozzy Virgil.

I flew him to Nebraska and had him spend Jason's 40th birthday with him. Wow. Holy moly. You got, you know, you know, you guys are both deranged millionaires.

I am loving what you guys are doing with your money. That's awesome. You know, he only, I just paid for his flight, 200 bucks. He took no other money at all. Wait a minute.

He did it simply. You didn't fly Aussie Virgil business class? Nope. Whoa. He wanted to fly direct, but that's it. He did it out of the kindness of his heart to a stranger. The first Dominican to play in Major League Baseball. No, no, no.

That's his father. That's his father. Oh, well, yeah, Baseball. No, no, no. That's his father. That's his father. Oh, well, yeah, forget him. Oh, here we go. The son of the first Dominican to play in Major League Baseball. You won't find anything to buy of his on the internet because Jason's bought it all. In a fury since his 40th birthday. So if I were to rule in your favor

amber what would you have me do if you were to rule in my favor i would like you to rule that jason puts as much effort forth being happy jason at a party we haven't even gotten into family functions there are certain things that he is obliged to do. You know, not even, like, he can't leave our house when I'm hosting Thanksgiving. What do you mean? He has,

well, say we have the family over for a holiday party. He can't just say, well, thanks everyone for coming. Goodbye. I'm done with all of you. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Right. No, no, no, no. I thought you were saying that he has some weird OCD thing where he can't leave the house when family is, I was just trying to. He's not agoraphobic. No. Okay. Gotcha.

Okay. Jason, do you bring out Candy Crush when you have a family function? Yes. Jason, if I were to find in your favor, what would you have me rule? I would ask, Judge, that you allow me to set the tone Amber feels when we are at these functions is because of her perceived discomfort that I have. And a lot of my discomfort is because I'm trying to steal myself up for being there for the duration, three, four, five hours. If I know that I've got my finger on the button, then I can relax a little bit more and not try to kind of save things up so that I've got to stay longer, I think. Amber, why?

Okay, I understand. Amber, why is that not acceptable? Because how can somebody that doesn't want to be there in the first place, be the person that sets the tone for when you leave. It's like, hello, I must be going. Is three, four, five hours an accurate description of the amount of time that you like to spend at a party? No, it is not. What would be your assessment of the appropriate time for you guys to spend at a party together? Let's do a friend party and then a family function party. A friend party, I'd say two to three hours.

Also depends, you know. Yeah, I know. I know it all depends. I'm just trying to get a ballpark. I understand that there are tons of contingencies. Okay, I say two to three hours. Two to three hours. But if I'm drinking and having a great time, then I might want to extend that.

Is Jason your de facto designated driver? No, absolutely not. Jason, do you drink? Yes. What do you drink? Absolutely. What do you drink, Jason? I cannot wait to hear the weird esoteric cocktail that is your favorite.

They serve it in a hat. No, I just drink bourbon. My bourbon of choice is bullet bourbon. Okay, now you're really just buzz marketing. Now I just saw through you. Now I understand where this whole thing is coming from. Yeah. I guess if you were to rule in my favor,

I would want him to be forced to say, I want to go to this function or I don't want to go to this function and not act like he's doing me a favor by going and then having a bad time. Okay, I understand. I think I understand everything I need to about this case. I think I've heard everything that I need to. I am going to climb into the back of my black and tan 81 Ford Bronco and just sort of lie down under a blanket and read a couple of issues of 1970s era Fantastic Four. And I have a feeling that when I come to, I will have a decision for you. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Amber, do you really think he has this Bronco ironically?

I mean, maybe the Molly Hatchet is ironic, but Broncos are pretty kick-ass. Yes, it was an ironic purchase, and that's exactly why he bought it. Is that true, Jason? No. The 1981 Bronco kicks, I think, 19 specific different kinds of ass. He likes the juxtaposition in his head of being a physician

and being able to afford much finer vehicles, yet he chooses to lowbrow it in this kick-ass 81 Bronco. Amber, if you're going to target a potentially ironic vehicle, I say target the 2005 Mustang because ironicism is the only reason I can think of to own a 2005 Mustang. five Mustang. Trade it in on a Grand Wagoneer. Trade them both in and get a sweet Grand Wagoneer. I'm trading both in and get an old

Scout. Oh, yeah. Did someone say Scout? Did someone say an old Scout? Done and done. I find in favor of Jason buying a scout. International harvester. We don't always stay on topic so good. Isn't that the whole point of being rich in Nebraska?

Just buy yourself a scout. Go on a trip. Go on a trip with two-time Braves all-star Ozzie Virgil. Now, that is just a great sitcom. I think that's one waiting to happen. God, there was a guy on my block growing up who had a Scout, and he also had a Jeep. This guy had like a World War II Jeep. Like a Jeep Jeep.

Oh, I was so jealous of that guy. Did he have the window? Did he fold down the window in front? Oh, totally. How about this? You get a Scout. I'll get a Grand Wagoneer because I like to ride in luxury. No offense. You get Ozzy Virgil in your

passenger seat. I'll get... I'm going to go with former San Francisco Giants second baseman Robbie Thompson. And let's just hit the roads and see what America has to offer. Two cool dudes in sweet rides and two

former professional baseball players. If you get the hack man Jeffrey Leonard there, you've got a deal. Yeah, he can ride in the back of your Scout. Okay. Amber, how do you feel about your chances in this case? I feel good about my chances. I feel confident that he will rule in my favor because I just think, you know, I'm out having a good time.

I don't think Jason should be the one limiting me. I think he should excuse himself from the party under his own reconnaissance. I think he should state why he's leaving and don't make me feel bad that he's staying there. Jason, obviously you're feeling pretty good overall because we came up with this scout plan, but how are you feeling about your chances in the case? Um,

quite honestly, I know I'm a horrible human being and throw myself on the mercy of the court. How do you feel about your chances in our marriage? throw myself on the mercy of the court. How do you feel about your chances in our marriage? Look, both of those things are something that only Judge John Hodgman can decide. We'll have a decision in just a second. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned

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right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? are made with made-in pots and pans.

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And it really struck me because, you know, I've been, I've been, I reviewed Susan Cain's TED talk on the subject of introversion versus extroversion. And her thesis, she was speaking as an introvert. Her thesis was that she has been sort of misunderstood by the extroverts of the world because there's a huge cultural pressure to be extroverted in American society since about the time that we stopped growing things in the earth and started selling things on the road. When the measure of your character

was not based on your stability and your quiet craftspersonship and instead started being based on how many units of razors you could move and your quiet craftspersonship, and instead started being based on how many units of razors you could move and how you could win friends and influence people. And I think it's a pretty compelling argument insofar as it tracks pretty closely with my own personal obsession with the cultural divide between jocanism and nerdism. And I think there's a pretty good overlay between nerdism and introversion and jocism and extroversion without putting a demerit on either position. There is a pretty interesting

tracking between the introvert who, as most psychiatrists define it now, someone who tends to the introversion spectrum of behavior, tends to find a brain arousal and excitement in solitude and lack of social stimulation. to enjoy, have pleasure centers aroused in the brain when they are being socially stimulated by a lot of conversation and people around them and like to engage in that sort of social stimulation. And the tracking between nerdism and introversion and jockeys and extroversion, I think, is only borne out by the fact that your husband locks his door so that he can work on Avengers Legos and read Silver Age comic books and Don Hex run on the Avengers. You know, the pleasure in his life, aside obviously his wife and his children, clearly in some part is the solitude that he enjoys as he drives down the road alone in his Bronco taking videos of himself listening to Molly Hatchet. If anything, I would say that your husband is an introvert in

the sense that he is on the spectrum of introversion and extroversion. He is capable of engaging with the world under certain social situations, but he prefers certain social situations where, as you say, he's in control. I think a better example would be that he knows the people really well. The interactions are meaningful and they're structured and they're small scale, like when you're traveling with your friends or when you're in the office. Getting together with a bunch of people in a bar and competing for people's attention over music and drinks and merriment is not merely his thing, right? He likes what he likes. That is absolutely true. And that is not merely classical of introverts. It is classical of all human beings. We all like what we like. We don't choose what we like. We are drawn to it, particularly those things that just make us happy. There's something chemical that goes on when you appreciate that this is the thing that

makes me happy. And there's no question that you like what you like. You like to be out with friends. You are much more closer to the extrovert's end of this particular behavioral spectrum. And one of the founding principles of the Judge John Hodgman podcast over time has been, you can't make someone like what they don't like. You can't make someone not like what they do like. It's just, it's just part of who you are, right? But where you're, and you're absolutely right there, Amber, where you're wrong is when you say he wants things only for himself. And the reason I know that is that I've been married to him for 12 years. Oh, no,

wait, that's wrong. I've only been speaking to him for about 15, 20 minutes. But I think that that reflects whether you meant to or not. And I'm not calling you out on the carpet for this statement. I think that it does reflect some of the sort of extroversion bias that predominant American culture, which is all about social stimulation at this point, and being garrulous and being out there and being talking and giving of yourself all the time and collaborating at work and collaborating at home and seeing solitude as something weird and distasteful that Susan Cain talked about in her TED Talk. By the way, she talked about it while hiding under a blanket in another room. That extroversion bias is real because extroverts tend to think they're right, and extroverts tend to kind of have the run of the culture to some degree. And introversion and nerdism does tend to be somewhat marginalized in today's culture. The idea of just going off by yourself alone is still, I think, considered to be a little bit suspect in our culture.

It seems being antisocial, not being part of the team, not being among the party. But Susan Cain makes the point, and I think it's a reasonable one, that people have sought solitude traditionally for as long as there have been humans. It's a transformative experience to be alone. It is, I think, the seat of creativity, of real creativity. Not that there isn't creativity and collaboration, but it is the solitudinous pursuits that have given us every great novel in the world. And plenty of great funny videos of a guy in a Bronco. the idea that you should, that Jason is going to change is a non-starter. It's just, he's not going to change how he feels about the particular kinds of social engagements that just make him crazy.

He's not going to change how he feels. And the, the, the, what you were really asking him to do is to change his behavior despite how he feels. And what's interesting here is that the conflict arises not because he feels the wrong way. Jason already knows that he has to modify his behavior because in order to, in spite of his feelings, I should say.

Because in order to, in spite of his feelings, I should say, what's crazy is that Jason is sitting in the corner playing Candy Crush because he really believes it would be more rude to leave the party and leave you there by yourself. That he feels he has an obligation to just hang around, even if he is barely, merely physically present. And this is where Jason has it all wrong. Jason, you cannot play video games at a party. No, no, no. You wouldn't tolerate that. You wouldn't feel good about it if it were your own child. I think at a birthday party for one of his peers or her peers,

sitting down and grabbing your phone to go off and play. Well, we said so many brand names in this one, so I'm going to go ahead and say Temple Run 2. You know, that's not cool. It's rude to the people who are hosting the party. It's rude. And what's uncool about it is that it draws attention to the fact that you don't want to be there, and that makes other people uncomfortable.

Perfectly reasonable option that I encourage you guys to explore, and indeed order you to undertake, is to forget about compromise. You guys love each other. Extroverts and introverts love each other all the time. I'm sure you have, I'm sure Amber, you have some introvert qualities. I'm sure Jason, you have some extrovert qualities. This is not to say that, you know, it's like, I'm not saying that you guys are like poles apart, but in this particular area, you're never going to compromise. You're always going to tap out at about an hour of these kinds of affairs. And Amber, you're always going to want to go for two or three hours. And that's two or three hours that just you're never, that's demilitarized zone between you for the rest of your lives. It's never going to change. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. And the compromise that you've sought, Jason, is just making it worse.

A man who drives an 81 Bronco doesn't have to make that kind of compromise. Right? He should be there for an hour, engage meaningfully with the host and the person who is being celebrated or the reason for the party. Really, really, really give of yourself. Be fun party Jason as best you can for that period of time. And then say, I'm really sorry, but I've got to go. Amber's going to stick around. Honey, I'll see you at home. And you get in that Bronco having not had a single drink and drive away. I'm going to give you something that's going to change your lives, dudes.

Change your lives. It's a telephone number. 402-477-6074. 402-477-6074. 402-477-6074. You know what that is? It's a number of Capital Cab Company in Lincoln, Nebraska. You know why it's called-

Happy Cab is recently coming to town. Yeah. You know why it's called Capital Cab? It's the state's capital. I know that. I know it's the state's capital. I know that. I know it's the state's capital. Maybe Uber is going to come in there. I see there's also an MG taxi service. Maybe that's just a taxi that just runs old MGs around town. Wouldn't that be a Jason-style cab company? Certainly would be a reliable cab company. Certainly would be a reliable cab company. And probably all the cars would be racing green. But for reals, don't get into that car after you had a drink and drive through

and say, Judge John Hodgman told me to go out and kill people. No. If you are at a casual social affair with friends that is not formal and does not require you to wear a suit and tie, that is to say no weddings, it is absolutely reasonable and frankly, much better solution for Jason to leave when he taps out politely after having given as much of himself as he can during that hour and go home and play Legos. Family situations, a hundred percent different.

That's one where there also can be no compromise. Amber wins. Family is just one of those things. You got to be there for the whole thing. You got to be there for the whole thing. You got to talk to people. You got to deal with people. You got to deal with their dumb stories. You got to deal with people. You got to deal with their dumb stories.

You got to deal with their getting drunk and out of control. You got to deal with their casual racism. Whatever the family is giving you, you got to deal with it. This is what family is about. Now, if someone in that house who is not you, some family member who is your age or older goes over and turns on the television to watch the game or falls asleep on a couch. Then and only then may you follow suit and hide.

Look, there are a lot of introverts in the world. Every family has a bunch of them and heaven knows every football game at Thanksgiving exists so that people don't have to talk to each other anymore. But as long as it's a family occasion, it is inappropriate for you to initiate, to pull the ripcord and initiate video game playing by yourself in the corner. You're not eight years old. You're a grown man. You own three cars.

You just got to power through it. They only happen a couple times a year. But as far as any other casual party goes, you are also a grown man who has a right to decide how and when he associates himself. And while I think it would be great if you were a different kind of person that loved to party, that would be more fun for Amber, I trust and clearly observe that you have other amusing qualities that make up for the fact that in this case, that's just not who you are. And Amber, you need to accept that, and you guys got to call the cab, and you got to go easy on the weird drinks.

and you guys got to call the cab, and you got to go easy on the weird drinks. This is, so I find in favor of Jason in non-family events. I find in favor of Amber in family events. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. It's a split decision. Amber, how are you feeling? I feel great. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I feel that Jason wins and I win. And I'm not an all or nothing kind of person.

So I feel very happy with the judge's decision. And it's going to be fun to say Judge Judge John Hodgman at Jason, as our little pet code for you have to stay for an hour and you have to be engaging. Jason, how are you feeling? I feel great. I mean, I think it's, I also think it's a good compromise. And I appreciate the admonition from the bench. He's absolutely right. And putting it in the context of my own children, that's really hit me hard, and I appreciate that.

And I think it's going to help me a lot when I'm at social functions to engage and be better. So I like the decision and appreciate it. Guys, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was great to have you. Thank you guys so much as well. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun

or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-R. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Since we're just buzzmarking like crazy now, I'll just tell you, I had about three different places to put this bingo and scrabble.

Expert computer mode is blocking me off by stacking tiles. I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. I was thinking about different baseball players from the 1980s that I could try and get to visit me for the price of an airplane ticket. Jesse again? Come on,

man, I'm right here. I just came up with Dave Hendue Henderson. You know what I'm going to do for your upcoming 22nd birthday is I'm going to purchase that man and put him in the back of an International Harvester Scout and have it shipped to you in Lincoln, Nebraska. That's just where they have an Amazon Dropbox. Oh, buzz marketing! Let's get to this docket. Here's the first question. My husband's family thinks our daughter's a lesbian.

She's not a lesbian, but she doesn't have a boyfriend. She dresses in gender-neutral clothes, seldom wears makeup, is a vegetarian, and has short hair. Recently, in support of a niece who's in the process of coming out, I liked a marriage equality organization on a social networking site. This seemed to confirm the assumptions about my own daughter. My husband's family is very conservative, both politically and religiously, and they're concerned about what they assume is our daughter's sexual orientation. Our daughter's away at college,

and she thinks the assumptions are amusing and essentially harmless. My husband's family has a bias against homosexuality. I believe it's the bias and not the person's sexual orientation. That's the problem here. My question, am I obligated to set them straight, so to speak, about my daughter's sexuality? The answer is no, for two reasons. One, your daughter's hugging and kissing preferences are barely any of your business, never mind the business of your conservative family-in-law. I appreciate that these people have strongly held beliefs, but people trying to ascertain whether or not someone is gay are the IRL equivalent of trolls. I mean, they are just looking for something that can make them really angry or really relieved, and it's not your job to give it to them. Because two, you're

not your daughter. And you say that your daughter is not a lesbian, that very well may be true. But I get, you know what? Maybe it's not. Maybe that's for her to decide and say if she so chooses. So if you're ever asked directly, I guess you can say, well, it's none of your business and I don't consider it to be mine. As far as I know, she likes to hug and kiss boys, but that may change over time.

And I could be wrong. Either way, I love her and I trust you feel the same. Boy, that'll rile up those trolls. But for the most part, don't rise to the bait. Don't feed the trolls. Just let them think whatever they're going to think. Here's something from Allison. My husband David and I can't agree about how to watch whole television seasons.

He insists on skipping any Halloween or Christmas episodes to save for their appropriate holiday seasons, while I find that this disrupts the narrative of the show. I also suspect that he doesn't always remember which shows we've missed and that there's a good chance I've never seen the best episodes of some of our favorite shows. Here's an editorial aside from me. Almost always the Halloween and Christmas episodes are the best episodes of a given series. We both agree on watching films in season. That is, Scrooged and Die Hard in December and Halloween II and Hocus Pocus

in October. You can imagine his chagrin when we went to see Iron Man 3 in the theater this spring and it turned out to be set during Christmas. Can we? You know what? I can't imagine his chagrin and I don't choose to.

I would like the judge to issue an injunction against skipping holiday-themed episodes in the future. Yeah, so ordered. You know what? I wish I had as much time and mental energy in my life to get into a nitpick fit with my wife over whether or not to watch the New Year's Eve episode of Mad Men. I mean, do they even do these holiday episodes anymore? I guess they do on Mad Men because at least Christmas and New Year's Eve, that's when they up the drinking a whole lot.

telling you, you got to watch all the TV shows all the time, all in a row, binge watch it. How are you going to stop for a holiday? That doesn't make any sense anymore, even if it ever did. I will say here that I would like to make one exception to your ruling, and with your permission, Judge Hodgman. And that is, I feel that I only feel comfortable watching that Mad Men episode where they all got amphetamine shots in the butt on days when I've had an amphetamine shot in my butt. Oh, yeah. No, you want to watch that episode on butt shot day. Or as other people call it, Thursday. Jesse, let me ask you a question. And Tuesday.

Do you open your amphetamine butt shot on butt shot day or butt shot eve? Do you open your amphetamine butt shot on butt shot day or butt shot eve? Our name for this episode was suggested by Rick DeCan. Thank you, Rick. Thanks, Rick. If you want to suggest the name for an upcoming Judge John Hodgman episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. Just search for Judge John Hodgman and or follow us on Twitter. I'm at Jesse Thorne. I'm at Hodgman, H-O-D-G-M-A-N. And speaking of that... Where else are you at?

Let me tell you where I'm going to be at. As you know, I travel around the country from time to time to bring comedy to the dark places of the earth, including such great cities as Boston, Massachusetts, this weekend. Of course, you know, Boston is the Commonwealthian capital of Massachusetts and is neighbor to my hometown of Brookline. I am really excited to return to the beautiful Wilbur Theater to perform on November 2nd at 9.45 p.m. I also have shows coming up in Austin, which rhymes with Boston,

but is in a different state, Texas, as well as San Francisco and Seattle. You can find all the details on johnhodgman.com slash tour. It is always great to see Judge John Hodgman listeners at the show. I will be doing meetings and greetings after every one of these shows.

So I really hope you will come on down and see me. This is all new comedy, and it's a new show that I'm really excited and happy about, I really hope you will come on down and see me. This is all new comedy, and it's a new show that I'm really excited and happy about, and I hope you will be too. And remember, the Judge John Hodgman podcast is sponsored by Hulu Plus, where you can binge on thousands of hit shows.

Get an extended free trial of Hulu Plus at huluplus.com slash judgejohn. Our show is produced by Julia Smith, edited by Mark McConville. Thank you, Julia and Mark. Take a second to review Judge John Hodgman in iTunes. It is easy and it makes a big difference and recommend it to a friend, why don't you? I say write to your Massachusetts state legislator and tell them to check it out. That's right. And if you have a dispute that you'd like to bring to the court of Judge John Hodgman, simply go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho.

There's a simple form you can fill out or email me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. I do review every petition personally. And if you are not married to the person that you have a dispute with, I guarantee you will get preferential treatment for the foreseeable future. We've got to get this out of marriage ref territory for a little while. We've got to get tough on this again. Of course, if you have a really great case against your wife or your husband or life partner or girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever, go ahead and send it in, too. I'll never turn down a good fight.

I'm sorry. Did you say something I was daydreaming about if you were Tom Papa? It's going to happen. It's going to happen. Tom Papa actually did a great job hosting that show, I thought. Tom Papa's a very funny man. He is. Yes, he is.

Look, we're not trying to beef with Tom Papa. We just want you to submit a case. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Thank you very much. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at

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