Judge John Hodgman - Feliz Gravitas

Episode Date: September 23, 2015

Featuring Guest Bailiff Paul F. Tompkins! Siblings Rolland and Nyssa want to reboot the family Christmas. How should they go about it? 

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest bailiff, Paul F. Tompkins. This week, feliz gravitas. Nyssa brings the case against her brother, Roland. They've decided to break family tradition this year and do something different for Christmas. Nyssa wants to host a gathering at her house. Roland wants to start a new tradition

of seeing a certain series of movies about space battles. Each thinks their own version would be the ideal Christmas. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and issues the obscure cultural reference. He brings it up again, the famous Apple Crisp incident of 2010. He motions for more gin and he loudly criticizes your cousin Jane who cries all the time anyway. And then he borrows Nana's car and staggers in at 3 a.m. with a new girlfriend. This one barely speaks. She studies cosmetology at Pismo Beach and she's got a Hitler neck tattoo.

You know your Judge John is going to ruin Christmas again. Please don't invite Judge John. You know Judge John is going to make a mess of things. We won't feel better till he's gone. Guest bail of Paul F. Tompkins, would you please swear in this week's litigants? You got it, Judge. Nyssa and Roland, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? We do.

I do. Yes, please speak for yourselves. That's how swearing in works. You can't do a blanket swearing to an oath. Do you swear to abide by Judge Sean Hodgman's ruling? I do.

I also do. I threw a little sauce on it. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Nissa and Roland, you may be seated. First of all, may I just say hello to guest bailiff Paul F. Tompkins. Paul, thank you for joining us here in the virtual courtroom of fake law that is the Judge John Hodgman podcast. You're made up, Honor. It is always my pleasure.

It is incredible to have you, and you are busy with all sorts of things, as you are always. The great Spontanea Nation podcast, which is mandatory listening in the John Hodgman household and ear holes, the John Hodgman household and ear holes, and also the live shows that occur once per month, I presume, at the Largo Theater in Los Angeles. All of this is correct so far? That's all true. Well, it's such a pleasure to have you here. Is there anything else that is going on that I can talk about? Just my quilting. Whoa, that's right, everybody. Paul F. Tompkins is one of the great quilters

of the world. If you go to greatquiltersofth the world.co.nz it's a new zealand website you will see that he is among the top nine quilters i am about to quilt my own roll of toilet tissue p.s anyone who actually goes to that website let me know what it actually is i hope i hope i hope sincerely that it is not racist. Yes, God bless us. Now moving on. Everyone. That's right. Speaking of God bless us, everyone,

which is a holiday saying that's tossed around by lame poor children in England who get a free goose once a year from an angry old man. This is a Christmas-themed show. Boy, oh boy, it's becoming earlier every year. I barely got my Halloween decorations up on September 1st and then down on September 15th for Thanksgiving. So Nyssa and Roland, before we begin,

for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can you name the Christmas-themed obscure cultural reference that I quoted as I entered the virtual courtroom? Nyssa, you bring this case before me for justice. You get first crack at this. Please don't get it right. I'll do my best. I am not sure. It sounded like maybe a Christmas episode of This American Life. I'm not sure.

Thank you for your guess without commenting on its correctness or not. Roland, will you please make a guess? It sounded like Stephen King. So that's my guess. I am relieved to say all guesses are wrong. I'm glad to say it is not Stephen King, nor is it. What was your guess again, Niseth? This American Life.

This American Life. It is not either of those things. It is actually the lyrics from a song called Uncle John on the album One Christmas at a Time, the collaborative Christmas album by friends of the show, Jonathan Colton and John Roderick. And it is a great album that is still available on all of your major record album buying platforms. And as we get into Christmas, because my goodness,

as of this recording, September 17th, it is just around the corner. Won't you please go out and buy that album and listen to that wonderful song? So Nyssa, you bring this case before fake court. What is your beef with Roland, who is your brother? Yeah. So we are trying to rebrand our Christmas this year. Our family has traditionally celebrated Christmas in the same way for about 60 years, where you get up really early and you open the same stockings and eat the same food and listen to the same Christmas carols. And it starts at around 10 a.m. and goes until about 10 p.m. And this all happens where?

At our grandmother's house. Okay. And now you're canceling Christmas for grandma and you want to start a new kind of Christmas because you're not, you guys aren't in dispute over old style 12 hour Christmas at grandma's. You are in dispute over what's going to replace it. Is that correct?

That is exactly it. Our goal is to not do Christmas at grandma's house in the same way ever again. We're trying to come up with a new way to celebrate Christmas in a new tradition. And is your grandma still living? She is indeed. Okay. So you're just saying later for you, grandma, we're doing it different. Well, yeah. Thanks for the memories. So what is the primary issue of dispute between you and brother Roland that you bring to this court?

And what would you have me order him to do or not do? So we both have two different ideas about how we can rebrand Christmas. I want to host Christmas at my house where I can control how long people are there and I can control what happens during the day. Uh, Roland wants to avoid the entire event altogether and just go see the new star Wars movie. Why doesn't he want to participate in your festival of control? Fair question from bailiff Paul. It sounded like fun. Roland,

your sister would have me order that you do not go to see Star Wars on Christmas and instead go to her house. Why is this unreasonable? Sure. I think that most of the issues arise during Christmas, not from the location, but rather the well-entrenched traditions that seem to be causing the problem. So, uh, my whole thing is, well, what is the, what is the, okay, go ahead. Oh, sure. Would you like me to get into the details? Well, I, first of all, I, I kind of want to know what, what the problem is with current Christmas that is causing this

filial or grand filial and grand sororial rebellion. Sure. That I presume you feel is going to be carried over to your sister's Christmas leading you to want to cancel Christmas altogether and go enjoy it with BB-8, formerly known as Baldroid.

Isn't that right, Paul? That's correct. He's got to roll on out of here. All right. Now you talk, Robin. Okay, sure. Yeah, there's several issues. Let's not have several.

Okay. There are two issues. Answer this question. What are the, forget two, what are the top three problems with Grandma's Christmas that you fear are just going to be replicated over at Nyssa's house? Number one, or in no particular ranking, first one is what? First one is too many gifts. is too many gifts. So our family likes to show love

and Christmas spirit through more and more gifts. And each year it becomes a larger problem. And for my family, we actually just finished reading, you had discussed this book a couple of times on the air, but the Marie Kondo book about decluttering. And as we've just decluttered a whole lot, it seems to be counterproductive to then add a bunch more clutter at the end of the year. So that's one of the gifts. Too many garbage gifts expressing love through materialism. Precisely. All right, got it.

Next. Another one is, this is not necessarily a shortcoming of my family, but maybe time, you're like potentially, you know, closing in on a dozen family events. And by that time, I'm kind of worn out. And I would rather Christmas Day be sort of a, well, it's all over now. We can just relax as opposed to no, no, no. Right. 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. equals too long slash Roland hates talking to his family.

Got it. Next. Sure. And next is, yeah, just as Nyssa said, there's a whole bunch of traditions that have just kind of been a little too well-worn. Same Christmas songs, playing games while people pop in and

out of the room. And then we're just waiting there while it's their turn. What kind of games? The old pop in and out of the room game? Oh, no. There will be several different games, some of them from the 60s. The names are escaping right now. I don't know. You're talking about like careers? Careers? Careers? Are these like party games, like charades, or are these board games like Sorry or Monopoly or Scrabble?

Like board games. And careers is kind of like life plus Monopoly that they stopped making because it's not fun at all. Oh, so not just board games, but esoteric vintage dead board games. Indeed. Mystery date? Does that ever show up in the Christmas rotation? If we had it, we would definitely be playing it.

So the rule seems to be just as long as it's old. As long as the packaging is yellowed by time, we are playing that game. Correct. we are playing that game. Correct. So, Roland, your third reason Christmas is terrible is too much singing and playing of games. Yes. Right.

Now, do you live on top of a mountain with a dog? And do you have an abnormally small heart? Actually, that's not... The first two parts of those, yes. yes the third one I don't think so maybe go to the doctor and see what size your heart is so is your is your beef

first we do the beef then we find the crux is your beef with your sister that she's just going to replicate grandma's horrible long game and music filled annual tradition in a sort of lighter version at her house and therefore you just want to cancel the whole thing yeah i my concern is that while moving to a new venue may shorten the day, I feel like it will just be a shorter version of that day that does not work for me. At all?

Not really at all, no. The memories and the feelings are just so strong that I feel like we really need to shake things up to get on a better path. How old are you? 28. So you have 28 12-hour days of Christmas. Most of which you can remember. 28 12-hour days of Christmas, which is that great new Christmas carol we're writing. And you figure, I've got enough memories. I got this one down.

Yeah. Nothing new under the sun for this holiday. I'm going to go start a new tradition and go to the movies, right? So you're 28 years old. Nyssa, how old are you? 31. 31. And where in the world do you live, Nyssa?

Portland, Oregon. Portland, Oregon. Both of you? Roland? Correct. Right. And the whole family is from, is from the, the food truck state. I think that's what, I think that's the motto, right?

That is correct. Right. What is the nickname of Oregon? The Beaver State. The Beaver correct. Right. What is the nickname of Oregon? The Beaver State. The Beaver State. Right, okay. Okay, so you, Roland, do you have any children? Do you have any?

I do. I have three children. And are you currently married to a human? I am currently married to a human. You're a family man. Yeah. You're not just some 28 year old loner Who's going to bob off And watch

Episode 7 By himself You're going to take your kids This is true So your idea Of Christmas 2015 Here I am dating what is Perhaps the most timeless podcast, the Judge John Hodren podcast, but there it is. Your idea of perfect Christmas for this year is just lay it out for me.

I know I got the Star Wars part. Walk me through the day. Walk me through the day. So during the morning, we'll have still Christmas with the kids, getting them their gifts in the morning. Gifts or gifts because, yeah, you're going to shut it down, right? You're shutting down materialism in your house. That is true. Normally, the kids do not get a an extreme amount of gifts anyhow uh i would consider it reasonable especially when considering the amount that uh my family gives um so i don't want christmas to be

unenjoyable for my children um so i'm not going to say you get no gifts this year because we're being minimalistic no it'll be like a little a little house on it'll be like a little house on the prairie style gift. You get a quarter and an apple and a kerchief. You get a doll made out of the mop. I'd say it's a 2015 version of that.

Okay. Alright, so you're going to give some modest gifts and then what? And then have a nice relaxing morning. And then mid-afternoon, finding an appropriate time where everyone can take care of their holiday morning business. And then we can all meet up, get together, my family, my sister's family, and the older generations of our family can meet up at the theater, see Star Wars. You know, if anybody wants to bring a handheld gift,

you know, something small to bring to the theater, they can do so, but it is not necessary. And then at the end, we say that was hilarious and enjoyable. And now we are going to go home and relax. And to whose home will you go? Our respective homes. You're going to separate at that point? Yes. So the Christmas celebration for the family would last the duration of the film and the brief handheld gift exchange beforehand. Yes.

I think it's perfect because it keeps talking down to a minimum and we can all still bond over the joy of star Wars, but silently bond. And then at the end, when the, when the credits roll, uh, does everyone silently get up and walk out,

not looking at each other? I'm not going to ask for too much from year one. Obviously, so obviously there is no religious component of Christmas in your lives. You guys are a bunch of Portland heathens, right? So you're not going to be saying a prayer between the trailers and the film, right? That's correct. All right. That's fine. Nyssa, I won't ask you to point out the flaws in Rollins' plan, for they are obvious, but what do you propose alternatively? So I am totally on board

with the spending Christmas morning with our respective nuclear families. You have children? I do have children. Are you married to a human? I am married to a human. All right. And how many children do you have? I have two children.

All right. And you lavish them with gift upon gift, spoiling them the way Roland hates. My children are actually very young. My oldest daughter is two, so she doesn't really understand presence. And my youngest is five months, so she barely knows what's going on in the world anyway. So we will probably. Congratulations. Congratulations on your family.

Sorry, I forgot to congratulate you on your family, Roland. But that's lovely. So. All right. So spending Christmas at home, not going over to grandma. And then what? Well, so after we do presents with our family, we will go to my mother-in-law's house and do Christmas with my husband's side of the family, which is going to be just like a brunch and presents type deal.

And then come back to my house where everyone is invited to come over at around three o'clock, maybe. And I will provide Christmas themed cocktails and I'll provide all the food and I will make a separate TV room available for my nieces and nephews or brother and sister-in-law who may not be interested in spending time with grandma so that they can watch Christmas movies or they can watch Netflix or they can just hang out and talk crap about us if that's what they want to do. Why doesn't anyone want to be with your grandma? Here's the deal. Oh boy.

No one wants to, no one wants to avoid grandma. We love grandma. She's very sweet, but it's like 94. Wow. Goodness. Yeah. Uh-huh. Um,

it's, it's like Roland said that you're saying she's, she had her time. Here's the thing about grandma. I don't think she even enjoys the Christmas anymore. I don't think she does either. Tell me about how grandma's going to feel

when you drop the bomb on her that you are canceling grandma Christmas after 94 seasons. Because it's time for a soft reboot of Christmas. A reimagining of Christmas at your house. I think

she will be relieved that she doesn't have to have all of us over and clean up after us and put out all the same decorations because every year she seems to be more and more overwhelmed by it. So I think that... Have you discussed it with her? I have floated the idea. She has seemed to be okay with it. My mom and my aunt seem to be fighting it a little bit more. And so your grandma does all this stuff herself? Well, my mom and my aunt help a lot now. Oh, okay. All right, good. So she seems to be okay with it. Your mom and your mom's sister are fighting it what what form is their fighting taking um for example when i first brought up to them that roland had planned on going to see star wars on christmas they said good idea let's just hold christmas on another day

did i not tell you that so to them christmas means this specific 12 hour board game and joy endurance test. It has to happen no matter what. That is exactly correct. So they're willing to say, OK, you guys do whatever you want on the 25th. We'll do it on the 26th. Exactly. Only the trick is that because, you know, we both have wives and in-laws and things now. So we have talked ourselves into showing up later to Christmas now, but if they

hold Christmas on a separate day, we'll have no excuse. We'll be there, you know, sunup sundown. And do you have other siblings who are in a similar conundrum or is it just you guys? There might be cousins but i but but as in every aspect of life who cares about cousins right no it's just us yeah i know that there are i know there are regions and places and cultures in the world where where cousin kinship is meaningful but uh not in my court may i may just get ask a question? Was there ever a time when you were younger, perhaps where this all day Christmas was enjoyable for you? I will absolutely agree to that. Um, our, our parents are divorced, but when our parents weren't,

all right, shut it down, everyone shut down the podcast. I'm so sorry, you guys. This is a family podcast. We don't acknowledge divorce. Oh, now, look, I know I'm the bailiff, but I refuse to bailiff for a marriage that is unsanctified. That's just my beliefs. And even though this is my job. You've taken a fake oath to uphold the fake law. I'm sorry. My religious convictions prevent me from fake bailiffing. All right. Also, those are fake, too, my religious convictions. Right.

I hold you in real contempt of fake court. Oh, dear. But unfortunately, I still need you to just keep things running. So I'm going to put you in that cage over there. You got it. Bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow. Well, you remember how in Barney Miller they had a cage in their office that they would keep criminals in? Yeah.

That can't be true for most detective squad rooms, right? Where there's a jail in the middle of the office. I would imagine not. right, where there's a jail in the middle of the office. I would imagine not. I mean, it made for funny comedy, but terrible, terrible workplace order. Remember when the one guy thought he was a werewolf.

All right, anyway, moving on. Paul, you go in the cage. Where were we? All right, so your parents were divorced, and that's fine. Yes. Um, so how did that, how did that, uh, uh, uh, reflect upon your Christmas experience? Well, yeah. So you were saying, did we ever enjoy it? And I remember clearly that when my parents were still together, my dad would always make me and my brother leave with him at around, you know, right after dinner. And I was always like, why? I want to stay and be with the grownups.

And then I found out, you know, later after they got divorced and I had to stay till the end, that the end was almost the worst because you're so exhausted after the whole day. And so I found out later how smart my dad was that he was like, nope, we're out. What, what is so exhausting about this? Is there a physical component to it that you haven't revealed? It's, it's just, it's, it's like Roland was saying that the forced conversation and the forced politeness and the, you know, going over our lives minute by minute in order that we can fill the time. If you despise each other so much, why are you bothering to celebrate Christmas together at all? It's a tradition. That is exactly it. That is correct.

I mean, it's still like year after year. Paul, I feel like you've never heard of Christmas before. Well, the idea is. I know that's not true. You're a Roman Catholic from Philadelphia. Of course, of course. Of course you know what Christmas is all about. You get together with increasingly distant and often increasingly deranged extended family members

and have to pretend like you're interested in one another. Very rarely is it so. May I ask this? Is alcohol a component of this Christmas at all? Good question. You know what? You're out of the cage. Come on back. Oh, I did it! Yes. Does that make it uncomfortable?

Yes. And without naming names, does it get routinely uncomfortable at a certain time of the evening because of the same group of people every year? Correct. Nailed it. And other question, do you have to dress up for Christmas? No. All right. So it's cash.

Very. And who's cash. Very. And who's forcing careers board game on everybody? Who's responsible for that? Our aunt and our mom, they tend to play games that they can win. Like for example. Like Christmas? Not this year

ah crux found ring the crux gong Mark McConville I'm glad that we arrived at the crux after the beef because you know what they say crux before beef just go to

sleep. Beef after Crux, this show sucks. Okay. Now I think we've really gotten into it and all kinds of things have been illuminated to me now, but I have to ask, I have to ask you two things, Nyssa. One. One. Okay. You're asking me to order your brother to come to your house on Christmas afternoon

for the new tradition that you are starting. Can he see Star Wars in the morning with his kids before he comes over? Or do you want him to not do that at all? Star Wars in the morning with his kids before he comes over? Or do you want him to not do that at all? Well, he, he is a free human and he can do whatever he wants, but I would really enjoy going to see Star Wars with him because when we were, when the prequels came out, we went and saw those together. You survived that trauma together and you have something of a Stockholm syndrome relationship with the franchise now and you want to go do it again. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. There are many in your shoes, including me. Next question. If you hold your

alternative grandma Christmas light at your house in the afternoon, alternative grandma Christmas light at your house in the afternoon. Do you expect your mom and your aunt and your grandma to come? Do you think they will do, they will come to your house and then do you think they will just hold crazy Christmas the next day? No, they will, they will absolutely come. But I think that they will not, they will be satisfied with this, with Christmas light.

Okay. You, you don't, okay. They're not going to, they're not going to hold their, their marathon Christmas out of protest and expect you to go to that as well. No, they'll probably hold the morning part of it together. Um, but I won't have to go to that. So. All right. Uh, great. And, um, and, uh, Roland, uh, why not go over to your sister's house for the afternoon and get some free food and be a, be a son to your mother and a grandson to your grandmother?

And be a son to your mother and a grandson to your grandmother. And I feel like I can effectively show the gratitude and goodwill and love towards my family throughout all of the holiday season. It does not just have to be during the meal on one arbitrary day. And there's exchange of presents at the meal that goes on, and that's a tradition in this thing? Am I understanding that? Yes. Well, that comes first typically but before the meal i mean everyone everyone everyone exchanges presents and then you have the meal you're not sitting at the dinner table no that's the thing is there's

far too many gifts to fit at the dinner table all right roland you keep saying far too many gifts give me some give me some specific numbers we're talking about what saying far too many gifts. Give me some specific numbers we're talking about. What is far too many gifts to you? Dozens per person. Dozens of gifts, wrapped gifts per person? That is correct. What did you get from everyone? So you're getting a you get from everyone?

So you're getting a dozen gifts from everyone in your family? No, no, no. I just mean each person has dozens of gifts to unwrap. Ends up with dozens of gifts. Correct. So tell me, as best as you can remember, all of the crap that was given to you by your dumb family members is an expression of their love that you hate and wish you hadn't gotten starting with whatever nissa gave to you another crux found is that i can't remember which is part of it like if i can't even remember

a year in the future they are not not terribly meaningful. And probably most of them went away with the condoing. It was so much garbage that you don't even, Nyssa, do you remember what you gave them for Christmas last year? I do. I gave you that special Stumptown brewing kit with the special coffee and the special cups that you took to Iceland. You did give me that. And that was a thoughtful gift. And I've used it several times and I still have it.

Too bad you couldn't remember. Too bad you couldn't remember when the time came. Yeah, that's going to hurt me. I'm just, you know, awkward moments like this are what the holidays are all about. Okay, I think I've heard everything

that I need to hear. I am going to slide down this chimney into my chambers and contemplate this case just a little bit more and then I will return with my verdict Bailiff Paul, take it away All rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom Nyssa, what do you think your chances are here?

I feel actually very confident I was nervous that the nerd factor of seeing Star Wars on Christmas would just automatically lose me the case, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Now you're, you're a listener of this program, right? Yes. But you thought that as soon as Judge Hodgman heard Star Wars, he'd say to hell with family Christmas, everyone should go see, he'd say, to hell with Family Christmas.

Everyone should go see. He was going to order you to see the movie. You know, sometimes I feel like I know what Judge Hodgman is going to rule, and then sometimes he just comes out of nowhere, and I never know. He is a mystery to us all, and his motives shall never be revealed in this world. Roland, what about you? What do you think your chances are? Yeah.

I thought that I had an edge coming into it. For the same reason that Nyssa said? Well, no, not necessarily, but just because I feel right. That does. I can see how that would be an edge. that does I can see how that would be an edge if you felt well I'm right I think that's going to win me the case yeah

but I did hear definitely a discerning tone of disagreement when it came to me saying things like I don't want to speak to my family on Christmas. That does sound, it does have a touch of grinchiness to it. Well, I understand aligning myself with that character is not the best strategy.

Well, we will find out who's right and who's wrong. We'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's decision. wrong. We'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's decision. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In.

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Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. All rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Please be seated. So I've been thinking in my chambers and my basic feeling is, and indeed my order, to hell with Christmas. Everyone go see Star Wars.

Goodbye. No, that's not true. Fake verdict. Of course not. How dare you think that of me, Misa? I'm so sorry. How dare you think that I would be such a nerd for Star Wars, of all things? If Roland was saying, I want everyone to go see Miller's Crossing, I'd be like, yeah, maybe.

It's pretty out there, but maybe. Star Wars isn't a Christmas. This is the thing, you guys. Star Wars is not a Christmas movie Like Miller's Crossing is Well that was a bad example To be fair Miller's Crossing kind of feels like a Christmas movie In a strange way

It does well they're singing Danny Boy Which is not a Christmas song but feels like one right Absolutely It all feels right the way Roland feels right All that's missing is Jingle Yeah If you were saying We i'm gonna we're we're all gonna go see we're all gonna go see what's the best christmas movie paul diehard goodfellas yeah anyway star wars first of all i'm not that much of a nerd for star Wars, right? Because I think we all agree that the prequels were exactly what you get

when an incredibly brilliant but complicated mind has no one telling him no. And there are three complicated works of art that basically changed the whole, I don't, why am I going on this Star Wars thing? Nevermind. Star Wars is one piece of juvenilia that is not as important to me as it was as when I was a juvenile. And it's never been a Christmas tradition. Star Wars never comes out at Christmas time. It comes out on May the 4th, of course. It's a summertime movie, for heaven's sake. No way was I going to just be swayed

just on account of Star Wars, although maybe next year when Rian Johnson's Star Wars Episode 8 comes out, if that comes out on Christmas, I might go see it that day, I have to tell you. I'm not against seeing a movie on Christmas at all. In fact, as someone who used to work in a movie theater, I saw many movies on Christmas and then enjoyed Christmas in different

ways after that. But it's a lot of fun to go to the movies on Christmas, a lot of fun to not celebrate Christmas, a lot of fun to do all kinds of different things at Christmas. Paul, how did you celebrate Christmas as a kid? We would celebrate at my family's house, my mom and dad's house. And there were six of us kids. And as we, as everyone got older and started their own families, we got the amount of time where the whole family got together was less and less. So we wouldn't always do dinner together. Sometimes we just like have a dessert together or whatever, but people would open their presents at their own homes. Um, and then we'd, we'd probably all get together for dinner. And now you are a grown man with a lovely wife and

you have no children and you live in California. That's true. How do you celebrate? And do you still celebrate, uh, uh, the feast day known as Christmas? We do. We go to my wife's family's house in South Carolina. We celebrate with her mother and stepfather. Right. And that's fantastic, right? No winter time. Yeah, it's lovely. It's just cold enough to feel like Christmas, but it's not as freezing cold as it was where I grew up. And it's lovely. We enjoy making time for it every year. But as time passed from when you were a kid to when you were a young adult to when you were an adult, your Christmas traditions as an individual and as a family changed and evolved.

And your family as a whole tended to accept that, no? That is correct. That's because your family is normal. Now, Nyssa and Rollins family have a real problem. They have a real gift. A real amazing gift is that they have a 94-year-old grandmother who is still, it would seem to be, independent and willing to host Christmas, this incredible and profound generational gift of knowledge and wisdom and love and care that they can interact with and who would probably would like to see their grandchildren. But Roland and Nyssa are just deciding to spit in her face

and say no more. And the reason it has come to this is that the christmas that is being presented to them as an obligation as a familial obligation for so long is onerous on its face 12 hours of solid cheer is a lot and that's a family tradition that happened probably organically. It grew to that. But now I think that on its face, intrinsically, it is too much damn Christmas, everybody. Sorry to swear. Children who are listening while driving their cars. Damn Christmas was a bad thing to say. Don't ever say it.

Stop driving. You don't have driver's licenses. don't ever say it and stop driving you don't have driver's licenses and consequently the holding on to this everybody come which is a weird it's a weird product of having this gift of a of a older independent uh uh relative uh weird uh and as well as probably um uh a fondness for tradition that is generational in the family and the weird geography that you all happen to sort of be in the same place. Do you know what I mean? Like, as a result, this tradition of Christmas has gone on for a lot longer than it goes on, I think, in a lot of extended families. And it has grown to the point where it is a burden, I think. a lot of extended families, and it has grown to the point where it is a burden, I think,

because the truth is that you guys are grownups. You have families of your own. This is precisely the time when the traditions around holiday observance and get-togethers, whether it is Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever holiday you celebrate, you know, once you have children of your own, Christmas starts to change. And it just hasn't for a long time because for whatever reason, you both feel a little bit under the thumb of the weight of this 12 hour endurance test that happens every year. So I agree with you guys that it should end. As an empathic human being, you might wait until your grandmother passes away. That's a choice you could make. It's still amazing. But if she's cool with it and it sounds like she is, and it's just your mom and your aunt hanging on to it, then I think it's entirely appropriate

at this point in your lives as family people, family man and woman, to start creating your own traditions. With the emphasis being on your own traditions. You know, what what Roland is reacting to, I think, perhaps overly is the profound obligation that seems to be either spoken or unspoken in your family that you're going to celebrate Christmas in a certain way. And even now, Nyssa, as you are trying to set up your own tradition, one that honors the existing tradition, but also is just a little bit easier on everybody. Your expectation that he be a part of it is so automatic that you have to come to fake Internet courts to get an order for him to go to it. Now, yeah, he's your brother, right?

And presumably you guys have affection for each other bordering on love, maybe even love. And yes, there are all kinds of reasons that I could put to Roland for saying, you know, your family loves you. They want to see you at Christmastime. Your great grandma or your grandmother is not going to see her great grandchildren for many more years or that many more years, I should say. great-grandchildren for many more years, or that many more years, I should say. It's probably reasonable to think about being a part of a family Christmas tradition in some way that makes sense to you. But dude, if you just want to go watch Star Wars all day long and not see your family, that's okay. There are those people in every family. And the people who get left behind. You know, that weird, so the weird people who bail on Christmas and families, you know, every time we all sit down to dinner at our traditional way, we kind of envy those weirdos and creeps. They're still weirdos and creeps, though. I'm no offense, Ron.

It's a weird thing to do. But I can't order, Roland, to attend your afternoon Christmas, Nyssa, any more than I can order your whole family to go see Star Wars with him and accept that as Christmas instead. That is madness, Roland. You understand that was never, ever, ever, ever going to happen. You know, like even if you convinced your 94-year-old grandma that a man on a podcast told her she had to do it. She was never going never going to do that. It's not it's not cool. watching Star Wars even though you'd like to see it with him because he's going to enjoy the benefit of his free agency and his breaking of the familial contract he needs to he's willing to transgress and throw Christmas away to watch a movie that's what's happening Roland a movie then he then he

should enjoy the fruits of his transgression you You're the better daughter, obviously, but that's what you pay for virtue. So what it all comes down to is no. I have to find in Rollins' favor that he can do Christmas any damn way he please. Sorry, children, cursing abounds in this holiday theme episode. I apologize. He is a dad and a husband and a father

who presumably within his own family, he has found a life partner who can endure his antisocial tendencies and his stinginess with gifts. And they're going to create their own tradition. Now, I think, Roland, you should be a decent human being and go see your movie and then drop by your sister's for a while and give and receive a gift that is

appropriate and maybe isn't, you know, really expensive or anything, but is a nice gesture that she will remember. But I can't order you to even do that. That's not your thing. That's not your thing. And Nyssa, I think you're going to have a really wonderful Christmas. And I think what's going to happen is that you are going to change the tradition.

Your grandmother will get a break this year. Your mom and aunt will fall into line. And as you guys sit down, what do you traditionally eat at Christmas? Turkey, right? Yeah. Not a goose? No goose. Alright, this year a goose. As you sit down to your goose,

and there's that empty chair or chairs there for Roland and his family, which I order you to set. I have a feeling that a holiday miracle will occur and the door will open and there the family will come in wearing all of their BB-8 costumes. Their Kylo Ren outfits, all those new characters that no one knows whether or not they're going to be great or go crazy like Jar Jar Binks. And they will finally join you and step upon your goose and it will be a family Christmas after all. And if that doesn't happen, then it'll just be empty chairs and it'll be spooky and weird

and you'll acknowledge that your brother is going a different way. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Well, Nyssa, how do you feel about the judge's decision? At first I was shocked, but I think that he definitely made the right decision. Rollin, what do you think? That was a roller coaster for me.

That was a roller coaster for me. It seemed like at points, I mean, first he came off with that feint of saying that he found in my favor, and then he said that was a lie, and then he talked about all the reasons I was wrong. And then when he ultimately did, I just feel elated. Have you thought about making the family spend Christmas on a roller coaster? That is a genius idea. Now, Roland, I have to ask you, what if this movie is disappointing? Hmm.

Will you feel that you have squandered Christmas? No. And here is why. All right. The whole point is to start a new tradition. And if it turns out that this is another Episode 1 debacle, then that will be something that I have learned. And next year we will not see Episode 8. Although, as the judge pointed out that will be ryan johnson instead of uh jj lens for abram s and so what happened there at the end uh were you trying to

say jj abrams yeah but then i said abram s i think it happens to him all the time I don't know him personally. Okay. No, I understand. The point being, I'm okay with it. Well, I would imagine you would be okay with it no matter what, because you don't really seem to be taking anyone else's feelings into consideration about this at all. And in fact, the whole idea of the new tradition is we go sit in a dark room and don't talk to each other. You can accomplish that without the movie even. Yeah, but there's a certain ceremony to it.

You can do that at home, though. You can invite everyone over and then they all come in. They stand, you know, in the front foyer for a while. And then you say, all right, the show is about to begin. You just turn off all the lights and nobody talks. Yes, except at the end, everybody's still in your house. Well, they have to leave and they have to throw away their trash in a conveniently placed receptacle. Nyssa, Roland, Misa, thank you for being on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

Thank you. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-A. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, here in your chambers, I see you have a Christmas tree decorated with a bunch of clones. Are they all clones of Boba Fett? Or Jango Fett, I should say. They're all clones of Jango Fett. Nice catch ball. Except for this one Christmas tree ornament that I had delivered to me as a child that will grow in real time to adulthood.

And that will be my successor. When the time comes to give up the Judge John Hodgman podcast, I am trusting that this clone of Jango Fett will take over my podcast and continue on with the tradition rather than just going to the movies and leaving me to die. Thank you very much, Paul, for being here as guest bailiff. Well, we'll hear from you again next week as we continue with the guest bailiff-a-rama as Jesse Thorne is out and about in the world doing all kinds of busy things. You should listen to Bullseye, Jesse Thorne's weekly incredible interview show that is on terrestrial radio. It's not just a podcast, but Paul F. Tompkins, one of the busiest people I know,

and certainly among the very, very funniest and thoughtful. What are you doing in your life, aside from the things that I already mentioned before or mentioned them again, if you want? Well, John, I'm going to mention them again. Spontanean Nation is my podcast on Earwolf, Earwolf Network, and that is an improvisation and interview podcast, which has been great fun to do. And we're doing live shows monthly at Largo at the Coronet in West Hollywood.

And the next one is Saturday, October 3rd. My improvisers will be from my TV show Know You Shut Up, Drew Massey, Colleen Smith, and Victor Yarad, all very funny people.

And my special guest, our interview guest, will be Susanna Hoffs of the Bangles. Oh my goodness, what a lovely woman. She really is truly terrific. She is amazingly talented and sweet.

And we are going to sing a song together, which I'm very excited about. And we do special stuff for the live shows that the podcast listener does not get to hear so we can sell tickets to the live shows. And so, but if I do not live nearby Los Angeles or even in the state of California, eventually a version of this live show will appear in the Spontanea Nation podcast stream. Yes, that is correct.

All of the live shows are part of the regular podcast stream and they all get to you for free. And so I better subscribe to it right now because first of all, I'm your friend and I should have done a long time ago. And second of all, what if I were not your friend and just a listener? How would I do it? The traditional methods? Yes, we are on all the typical platforms and also on how.fm, which is a new venture by Earwolf. You can find a new show by Super Ego, which includes me, called Super Ego Forgotten Classics. And that is a podcast where we take a classic work of literature that none of us have ever read and we improvise what we think it is about.

I will absolutely subscribe to that because I love the Super Ego podcast, even though it is a production of our dreaded enemies. Earwolf. No, we're all great. We're all great pals here in the podcast world. I hope in the spirit of Christmas and hating your family, that you can overlook the eternal struggle just this one time. Paul, may I tell you and the listeners what I will be doing over the next couple of days? John, thank you for not making me ask. So this coming weekend, I will be in full

swing on my Vacationland tour. These are all new funny comedy stories with a little touch of the personal thrown in that I am performing all around, not just this country, Paul, but the country of Canada, two separate provinces. This weekend, I will be in Iowa City, Madison, Wisconsin, Minneapolis, Minnesota, and then the following Tuesday, September 29th, in Toronto at the Just for Laughs Festival. Depending on when this came out, it is either in your future and your past that you might have seen me or could still see me on September 24th in Chicago as well. If you're curious and now confused about the order of dates in September, please go to johnhodgman.com slash T-O-U-R. And you'll find out all the details about when I might be coming to your American, North American city, I should say. And how you can buy tickets.

And I hope I will see you because it is better when you are there. John, those are all wonderful cities that I have visited and hope to visit again. And I am sure they will all come out to see you and enjoy your show. Well, Paul, it's been such a pleasure to have you. And I think there's some more things that you need to say. And then it's all going to be over for this week. I want to say thanks to Adi Heller for suggesting this week's case name. If you would like to suggest a name for a future case, like us on Facebook.

We regularly put out a call for submissions. Now, I say we, of course, I mean you people. I'm not here every week. If you have a case for the judge, submit it at www.maximumfund.org slash JJHO. www.maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Or write me directly at Hodgman at MaximumFund.org or follow us on Facebook

or on Twitter. And Paul, you have social media? Tell me about it. P.F. Tompkins on Twitter and Instagram. I have a Tumblr and I think I got a Periscope. I don't know about Snapchat. think I got a Periscope. I don't know about Snapchat.

It scares me a little bit. Our producer, meanwhile, is Julia Smith. We are a production of MaximumFun.org. And that, I believe, Paul, is all either of us has to say. We should thank Mark McConville, the editor. Thank you, Mark. Anyone else that I forgot to write a thank you note, dad? Thanks to the baby Jesus for inspiring this week's episode.

Oh, and by the way, Paul, thank you to you and your lovely bride for hosting me in your home so much this spring. It was fun being your adult son home from college at your house. John, we miss you and you're free to bring a big bag of laundry anytime. Here I come. See you next time on the judge, John Hodgman podcast. Maximum fun.org comedy and culture artist owned listener supported.