Judge John Hodgman - Fight Court

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

William brings the case against his wife Wren. Wren is a member of an amateur boxing gym. William wants to join her gym, but Wren is concerned about him overshadowing her hobby! Who's right?Thanks to reddit user u/Ironymaiden_ for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, fight court. William brings the case against his wife, Wren. Wren is a member of an amateur boxing gym. William wants to join her gym. Wren is concerned about him overshadowing her hobby. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. David was like, there's another downtown artist talking about boxing in New York? That's my thing. So he challenged me to a boxing match. I thought about it and I decided I'm going to call myself the Herring Wonder. I had this idea that I would I'm going to call myself the Herring Wonder. I had

this idea that I would be a reincarnated turn-of-the-century Jewish boxer and I would be fueled by herring and I would have herring breath in the ring. So I accepted the challenge. It's on. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. William and Wren, please rise and raise your right hands. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you, God or whatever. I do. I do. I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

The only thing weaker is my left jab. Watch for the hook, though. Yeah, you'll see it coming. It's very slow. Cool breeze taught us that. William and Ren, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom? William, let's start with you.

I think I'm going to have to go with Mike Tyson in an interview before he got into boxing. Maybe he did herring fishing. Okay. Mike Tyson in an alternate universe in which he fished for herring. It's a good guess. Wren, what's your guess? I'm going to guess the Barbra Streisand film, The Main Event. The Barbra Streisand film, The Main Event.

Wrong. It was from A the main event. Wrong. It was from A Star is Born. Wrong. It's called Yentl. Well, all guesses are wrong. Jesse, can you name the cultural reference? You should be able to. That's from one of my favorite television shows of all time, Bored to Death, starring

John Hodgman. Actually, Jesse, all guesses are wrong yet again. Is it not? That is a quote from Jonathan Ames, the creator of Bored to Death, in a story about his own real life when he got into a meta boxing match with a performance artist called David, the impact addict, Leslie in New York city. And he told that story on a little radio show called bullseye on May 21st, 2021. Never heard of it. Never heard of it.

It's an NPR show. I highly recommend it. It's part of a segment called the craziest bleeping day of my life or something. Oh yeah. The craziest day of my entire career. That's right. We'll bleep that out. Craziest bleeping day of my entire career as a really fun story. And yes, you're right. Bored to death is a terrific show. Thank you very much.

And a lot of that true life story about Jonathan getting into a boxing match, uh, uh, was, was used for the plot of Bored to Death Season 1, Episode 8, Take a Dive, in which I, John Hodgman, playing the sniveling Louis Green, actually had to train to box. And you know what, Jesse? Challenging. The sweet science is not good for a weak asthmatic like me, but I guess that's what we're going to talk about today. Who comes to this court seeking justice, please? I do, Your Honor. You are William. What is the nature of your dispute?

Well, we've both dabbled in boxing for a bit. She's now part of a gym, and I've been- She? She? Wren? for a bit she's now part of a gym and i've been she she ren yeah yes ren is uh part of this is your part this is your partner your married partner we've been married about six years her name is ren name is ren yes okay and uh i've been out of boxing for a bit. She's got back into it. She? Ren. Now it's okay. Now you can say it. You've established that Ren is a whole human being in her own right who happens to be married to you there in Salt Lake City.

Okay. Dabbled in boxing. You got out of it. Ren is getting back into it. Go on. Correct. And giving me the bug again. And in October, there's going to be an amateur fight

card. And one of the attractive things about training boxing is you have this goal at the end. Okay, now, all of the training I've done is culminating in a final event. And without that, it's hard to be motivated to engage. And so the problem here is she's okay with me going to the gym, but not, Ren is not okay with necessarily me being on the same card as her, because having an actual fight camp to engage in an actual fight is a different kind of beast. Ren, tell me about this boxing gym. Well, this gym is really cool because it fills a really good niche

between like we've trained, when we used to live in Vegas, we used to train at a pro gym and that was way too much for us. It was- Yeah, I would guess a pro gym in Las Vegas is pretty intense. I betcha.

We did work for their website. And in exchange, one of the coaches trained us. But I was going to stop you and say for the viewer who hasn't had a chance to check out the photographs, the very charming photographs of William and Ren and the evidence, which we'll be getting to later. William and Ren look like a couple of people who work on a website maybe for a boxing for a pro boxing gym but more likely for like ruby coffee it would be my guess i'm already like putting their number into my phone in case i'm having trouble with windows later yeah

they they you you look like two lovely if i may say so nerds with with a kind of like with a little bit of like a metal element to to your nerddom would that be fair to say we've got a big beard on william and a mohawk on me oh you got a mohawk but but i can't see it because you're wearing some kind of black cap right yeah i'm uh i'm wearing my las vegas of black cap right now. Yeah, I'm wearing my Las Vegas Golden Knights cap right now because we won the Stanley Cup. Stanley Cup winning team of hockey, Jesse Thorne. Hockey, you know how you love baseball so much and talk about it? I learned who won the Stanley Cup in hockey, so that's kind of my thing now, hockey. Yeah, it's about the same deal.

Hockey is another form of exercise that culminates in hurting someone. That's actually why I started hockey. Well, I've been in a professional boxing gym in New York City when I was forced to train physically for this TV show, Bored to Death. And they're in, that's not, it's not a place where i'm i felt entirely comfortable but you don't live in las vegas anymore you live in salt lake city what i like to call the azores of the american west right one person will get that joke and that's all it's for in any case tell me about the boxing gym you go to now is there a strong uh strong beard oh fuzzy mohawk magic Gathering contingent in this gym is a little bit more nerd friendly. I think it's a bit more everyone friendly.

Nice. Yes. I hang out with all people from all kinds of walks of life there. We get people who are just there to get a workout. We've got people who actually want to learn some boxing technique. a workout. We've got people who actually want to learn some boxing technique. And they host these amateur events a couple times a year. And this is the one that's coming up in October. That's the point of contention at the moment. But let me go back a little bit. Now, William said that you both have dabbled in boxing. Wren, what is your history with boxing? Well, initially, the first time I went to a boxing gym,

well, we both independently, before we were together, were interested in watching combat sports. Okay. So that's basically, what are we talking about? MMA, boxing, jousting, fencing. I actually did used to fence in high school as well oh what did what was your what was your sword epay foil or saber it was epay nice new york times crosswords favorite yeah uh okay so you both independently liked watching combat sports right and then uh the first time either of us went into a boxing gym, it was me who went into a very, very more of an aerobics class with boxing, with, you know, punching bags, less of actually trying to teach you anything.

Like a punching Zumba. And that really wasn't for me either. What got us both really, really into boxing was that we participated in this comedy boxing event. Comedy boxing, you said? Yes, it was hosted by a different podcast that we listened to. A different podcast, you say? Jesse, sounds like they listened to a different podcast. Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. Goodbye forever, William and Wren. You're both out of order.

And you know what? I'm never listening to On the Media again now that I found out they host boxing events. Yeah, Brooke Gladstone runs a tight promotion. A tight boxing promotion for sure. Comedy boxing only, though. What is comedy boxing, Wren? Well, this event, it has a bunch of different themes for the different fights. Some of them are more serious. Some of them are more silly. The one that I did was musical chairs. So you would start with about maybe eight ladies in the boxing ring with six chairs. And whoever doesn't get a chair,

those two have to fight each other to stay in the next round. Okay, gotcha. So there are two people get locked out of the chairs. So it's real boxing with some comedy. With comedy elements. Comedy elements, exactly. And did you box under a hilarious nom de box,

a pseudonym or something? I hadn't been going by any name yet, the last couple that I did, but I have since adopted the name Renegade. Nice. And your name is Ren, spelled like the bird. Spelled like the bird. So Renegade spelled with a W. That's pretty good, I have to say. That's really good.

William, are you into comedy boxing uh yeah my fights were a little more serious so i i did ones called biggest loser so listen to this guy comedy boxing gatekeeping over here a little bit more serious it's okay william you did you did serious comedy boxing it. Yeah. What was different about yours? It was, you know, three rounds and it was the two people who lost the most weight in the time frame given. So for me, I lost about 60, 70 pounds. And wow, he's out in there against somebody else who lost a similar amount. So two people who weren't very fit and then got very fit, very fast. Very fit, very fast. That's not comedy. That feels pretty like serious biz.

That's not a joke. Neither of these are a joke. Even though you're starting with musical chairs, you are still getting up and boxing. So this is how you two met in the comedy boxing world of Salt Lake City? No, we met because she showed up to my work one day where I was a manager of a company that works on websites. Right. And so she showed up because her friend worked there and they had lunch together and that's where we first met. Oh, okay. But you had already, then you discovered that you had blood sport in common. How did that come up? So one of the reasons that we started hanging out a lot more is because I had this interest

in watching combat sports, but I didn't have access to the pay-per-views and such. But I knew this handsome guy who did watch them all. And if I went over to his house, I could get the fights for free. Fights for free. You were a free fighting freeloader with a romantic angle as well. Nice. That's the sweet science right there. I can't imagine anything more romantic. So who boxed first, comedy or otherwise? I can't imagine anything more romantic. So who boxed first, comedy or otherwise? The first event that we did together, he was signed up.

He had, you know, was in all the paperwork for the event. And I kind of, I trained with him a bit just because I thought it was cool. I wanted to join, hang out at the gym. You were dating together at this point. Yeah, I think we were dating. I don't at this point. Yeah, I think we were dating. I don't think we were married yet. I think we were dating. Okay.

And there ended up being an opening for me to hop into this musical chair event. Got it. At the last minute. So we were both in the same event together, but he knew and was training for it. And I was a little bit more spontaneous. So, but this event was the first event either of you had done. Correct. And you were doing musical chairs,

whereas William, you were doing this physical challenge, get in shape fast deal. Correct. All right. And then, so basically your history is kind of matched, you know, different style of events, but it was the same deal. And this was in Salt Lake City. That was in Vegas.

That was in Vegas. Comedy boxing center of the world. Is there comedy boxing in Salt Lake City? I don't think so. I would guess not. Okay. All right. And now you've been married for six years.

Do you have any other hobbies besides watching and participating in physical combat? So, yeah, I'm kind of a hobby addict. So I jump in stuff and go very hard for a while and then stop. I think you sent in some evidence of your, of your hobby addictions. So I'm going to take a look now. All these photos of course will be available on the show page at maximumfund.org as well as our Instagram account, which is at judge John Hodgman on Instagram. And I'm going in order. Here's a picture of you, William in a boxing ring with arms aloft. What event was this? This was the second event I was in and it was part of the same kind of comedy

boxing. And yeah, I, I won that time the first time I didn't. So I had to try again. And what was the, what was the gimmick on this, on this competition? It was the biggestick on this competition? It was biggest loser again, because you get very fit very fast. It's easy to get very unfit very fast. Got it, got it, got it. So you did it again. This time you won.

And then, now are these in chronological order? Then did you give up boxing to take up steampunk? Because I see a picture of you with a bunch of knobs and dials on a bowler hat. Yeah, my steampunk and metalworking adventure was before boxing. Okay, gotcha. So these are not in any particular order. I see now a human hand holding a bunch of glossy rocks, blue and azure and pearly glossy rocks. What am I looking at?

Yeah, currently one of my big hobbies is opal cutting i get rough from australia and have a shop in my garage and turn rough into gems i like that william's lifestyle is what i would call gigantic travis mcelroy did you is that your comedy boxing name gigantic travis mcelroy or is it rough cutting william the opal killer he doesn't have a nickname he doesn't have a name my last name rhymes with hammer so some people call me the hammer but fair enough and then there's a a picture of i presume you william smoo. Is that you ran in this photo through the ropes, like Rocky Balboa style? What's the story here? Plus you're on the Jumbotron behind. That's incredible.

Yeah. That was the same event where I won. Uh, she was in my corner. So she's the one that gets the stool out, gives me water, uh, kind of coaches me and make sure I'm doing what I trained to do. So what kind of coaching did you offer Ren? Oh, well, one of the big things that my job was to remind him was to be gentle. He doesn't need to just go all out in the first round. He needs to pace himself and wear the other guy guy out a little bit find his mark not just not just go in with heavy hands just wait for the timing so that was the big coaching thing and feeding of the water is very important did you do any blood spitting um i did actually i did start

bleeding in the first round the first punch uh my my nose. And so the whole fight, it was blood spitting. That's because you go hard because you go hard is what I'm hearing. You go hard and then, and then, and then you burn out. Yeah. And that's why she really in my corner is yelling at me to be nice while I'm punching somebody because I gas myself out. Be nice when you're punching someone. That's good advice.

And then finally, there's a photo of you with those big heavy hands, plucking a banjo while looking a dog straight in the eye. You see this dog picture, Jesse. Yeah, this is a, this is a great dog.

Who's this dog that you're playing banjo to? Her name is banjo. Pretty good. We should note here that William is locked in on Banjo the dog. Banjo the dog is locked in on Banjo the banjo. It's true. William, you're plucking a banjo. And I don't know whether this is a banjo-lele or you're just a gigantic human because this banjo looks pretty small in your hands.

That's actually a larger than average banjo. That's a long neck banjo, a Pete Seeger style. Whoa. And it's actually a guitar own. Did you, uh, did you, you play the banjo currently, or is this something you gave up? No, uh, I still play. That's another one of my, my hobbies. Right. So you, when you say you're addicted to hobbies, is it the case that you, that you do go hard and give them up or that you go hard and you keep going hard you keep cutting those opals hard uh banjo banjo was one where i'll go hard for a couple months and then not play for a couple months and then pick it up again um some hobbies are like that and some are one and done steampunk was like more of a one and done so yeah good good call there good call keep it up with the banjo

steampunk everyone can put it down everyone can put it down at this point uh did you name banjo the dog after banjo the banjo or did banjo the dog give you the idea to start banjoing well uh we named her after the instrument but there's a little more to it because our other dog is um our other dog is named ukulele and and i play the ukulele we do in fact own of own of angel ali okay so our older dog is named ukulele and she's a big labrador and so i always thought it would be funny if we ever got a second dog to get a smaller one and name it Banjo. And so we have Laylee and Joe.

Oh, Laylee and Joe. That's terrific. Great dog names, great nicknames. Speaking as someone who plays ukulele, sometimes even on stage, I like that the theme of your dog names is musical instruments universally considered to be unpleasant

looking forward to your cat bagpipe laley and joe and pipey but you know what you know you know i you know i think i think these are perfect names for these dogs because i bet you these dogs are plucky right now we're talking plucky i like that in this picture of banjo banjo the dog is clearly trying to figure out what the heck Banjo the instrument is. Like really, the little dog brain marbles in there are rattling around like what type of opossum is this? Definitely get over to our Instagram page if you want to see a dog getting freaked out by a banjo. It's terrific. And then you sent in some evidence as well, Ren.

And this is some of your comedy, your comedy boxing, your last, in fact, it says here, my last comedy fight. Tell me the story of your last comedy fight. I was pretty embarrassed by how it went. I, like I said, the first time it was very spontaneous. And so, and I was very new to boxing still. So I went in all gung ho and just had a good time. And the second time I was, I wanted to really train, but I was kind of in denial about how out of shape I was. And so I got in there and I just got hit in the face a whole bunch. I barely remembered to get my hands up and protect my face.

I just got hit a bunch, lost my one round, and that was how it went. Yeah. So this is you getting punched here. Yes. I'm the one with the green hair getting punched. Oof. And when was this? That was, I want to say, 2019, maybe?

Maybe 28. 2019. Somewhere around there. Yeah. And then, and then spitty contact sports kind of took a pause for a couple of years. Sure did. Now, obviously in Salt Lake City, at least it's roaring back with a vengeance, like a, like a, like a Jean-Claude Van Damme wheelhouse kick.

It's coming back around. Coming back around. But you say this was your last one. This was your last fight, your second and last fight. When I say my last, it was the most recent one that occurred. Right. Most recent. That's what I mean to say.

You're not retired. In fact, you're trying to get back into it. So let's go back in time for a second. William, you're getting ready for your big match. You've been training and training and training for and all of a sudden Ren who's never done this before on a whim

signs up how did that make you feel that this person maybe you weren't even dating at that point you were still just acquainted we were I think we were dating you were dating and so your date shows up to this thing that you've been training for getting fit fast and just on a whim on a joke signs up for this comedy boxing how did

that make you feel uh at first i was excited and then i quickly realized once the bell rang and i saw her getting hit that it's very uh it made me very anxious to see my significant other in the ring getting hit. And it's almost as difficult to watch as when you're in the ring yourself. So it can be distracting when you have a significant other on the same card. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that may be germane to this case, William.

May be germane to this case. Maybe. Because this is what we're talking about. Because this is what we're talking about. This is exactly what we're talking about. But, Wren, when did this start? So you started, first of all, you moved to Salt Lake City for some reason, which is your own personal reason. I mean, it's the Azores of the American West. It wouldn't go there.

Access to those stores that sell different soda pops mixed together. Let the record show big nods from William and a slow shake of the head from Wren with regard to the big stores. I don't know what you're referring to, Jesse. What are those all about? In Utah and large parts of the American West, but especially Utah, there are a lot of stores that sell giant styrofoam cups full of pebble ice and different sodas mixed together. And you get them from a drive-thru, like a drive-thru coffee place. So, Wren, you moved to Salt Lake City, the land of dirty soda, and you decide to start getting into boxing. What motivated you to start getting into non-comedy boxing?

Well, it started because there was going to be one more final event of this comedy. During the lockdown times, there was a lot of talk about once things, you know, once things open back up again, we're going to get in and have one last event, seal up the whole thing. I think it was going to be the 20th one. It was going to just, you know, be the cap thing. We, I think it was going to be the 20th one. It was going to just, you know, be the capstone. And I started training around November of 2021. Okay. In anticipation of this final comedy boxing event. Now, did that event happen or is this the one we're talking about? That's going to happen in October. No, that one was supposed to happen in April and three weeks before it happened. Like I said, I started off just training in my garage.

And then February of this year, I decided I needed a real coach if I was going to do this right. And that was the big thing. I wanted to do this one right, even though it was comedy. I wanted to train as hard as I could, do the very best I could, because like I said, I was embarrassed by the previous performance. And so I wanted to get a real coach, go to a real gym and train as hard as I could, do the very best I could, because like I said, I was embarrassed by the previous performance. And so I wanted to get a real coach, go to a real gym, and train as hard as I could. And then three weeks before the event happened, it got canceled. Why? What happened? The Nevada State Athletic Commission decided that we needed some more licenses. They wanted us to do some blood tests. We couldn't get everything done in time, and it got shut down. See, Jessie, this is why I don't

mess around with the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Yeah, me too. I would be boxing in Nevada right now if it weren't for the blood tests. I know. It's just, it's, come on. It's no, have a sense of humor, you guys. It's comedy boxing. You know what?

One time I went to have a boxing fight in Nevada, Las Vegas, Nevada, and I went and I took the blood test test and they said I was too powerful. One time I took the blood test and they said, your lipids are too high. You need to stop eating sticks of butter. It just gave you some statins. So obviously they rescheduled and relocated the comedy boxing final event to Salt Lake City, the land of no rules, famously final event to Salt Lake City, the land of no rules. Famously libertine Salt Lake City. Well, no, the comedy event was canceled.

It's almost certain that it's not going to come back again. Oh, no. But you did get some sweet shorts out of it, according to this photograph. I had custom shorts made in anticipation of that fight that are now, I guess, lounge shorts around the house because they're not going to be in a fight. This is why I would take up boxing 100% for the outfits. I would want a special robe and special shorts. I wanted to get the sleeveless hoodie thing with my name put across the back, but I didn't have time to get it made before the fight. I mean, I could have because it got canceled, but when I thought it was happening,

I couldn't get it done in time. Special shoes also, special super tall shoes. I'd ride a horse just to wear those special shoes. Jesse, when you get a moment sometime before uh your next birthday or the holidays get me your uh your custom silk embroidered robe size so we can we can spangle something up for you real good absolutely you know i'm covered with robes so let's let's do silk shorts silk shorts all right well ran on her shorts has her fighting name renegegade, which looks super cool. Jesse, let me know what you want your comedy boxing name is going to be, okay? First thought, Bald Bruiser, but we can work on it. Yeah, yeah, we'll workshop it.

Whatever you settle on is fine with me. So, Renegade, you say you can't be hanging up these shorts for good. You're training for a fight right now in October. Well, these fights in October are not through the comedy channel. They are through the gym that I started training at. And these ones, they have proper uniforms so everybody matches. It's not just a... Oh, you're not allowed to wear your flare. So this is real boxing.

A quote of... Dramatic, not comedy boxing, drama boxing drama boxing yeah it's drama boxing it's um it's definitely more more suited towards that mindset that i was trying to get into with my last fight of the goal is to train as hard as you can and do the best that you can and actually i would actually be fighting somebody in my weight class which never happened in the common circuit um and and somebody who they think is paired well for me. So it would actually be a fair fight. And I wanted to actually show what I could do. Why do you keep speaking about this in the past tense? Isn't it going to happen? Yes or no?

Yes, the event is definitely happening. I am waiting for the judgment to find out whether I will be participating. Because your point of view is if William participates, you're not gonna. Uh, I might. I might. I might wait for the next one. I'm not sure. I was about to fill out the application when he brought me to court. So it's not set in Sedona yet. I just assumed the problem was you couldn't wear the shorts. If it's just her husband's wishes. Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In.

Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in.

The Rohan duck, made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made- of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in. Made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant

town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound.

Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore.

It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. So, Ren, you're training for this real boxing match. You're taking it seriously.

All of a sudden, William looks up from polishing his opals and says, yeah, I want to do the same thing. When did this happen? How did that happen? Well, I went to the last fight that my gym hosted. As a spectator. As a spectator. I went and hung out with some of my gym mates. We had a good time, watched some fights.

It was a lot of fun. A bunch of us sitting there were like, oh, we should get in the next one, right? Right. watched some fights. It was a lot of fun. A bunch of us sitting there were like, oh, we should get in the next one, right? And I, you know, William stayed home and I texted him from the event and was like, hey, they're streaming this online. You can check it out and see what it's all about. And when I got home, I told him that I wanted to sign up for it. And he said, you know, it got me itching to do a fight again, too. I want to sign up for it as well. That's called a little thunder stealing, wouldn't you say? How did that make you feel, Wren? Yeah, it made me feel like I was going to not get the glory of this fight that I was hoping for, or I would have to share the glory and share all the stress as well. That's kind of the bigger

deal for me. William, what happened from your point of view? You're at home with your opals and your banjo and your banjo. And you get this text saying from Ren saying, I think I'm going to sign up for this boxing match. Train for it. What happened from your point of view? You just decided to go ahead and do it too?

Yeah, it sounds bad on paper. I can admit that. But it also sounds bad on a podcast. So the fact that we, you know, I've done boxing before and it is the only kind of physical fitness I've ever stuck with for enough time to be fit. And now there is a goal again. And of course, during lockdown, wasn't as active. And so wanting to figure out how to kind of get back on the horse there. And then learning about this event in October really kind of, you know, got my juices flowing. But, you know, it's tough. You had not been training for boxing already at the point that you got this text message and decided you were going to correct.

This is kind of like the first event where I did all the training and she jumped in. Now, here we go. And I'm jumping in. William, this is the sweet science of being a litigant on Judge John Hodgman you just you just did the rope-a-dope you were sitting back there taking all this all these body blows from Ren and frankly from me too and all of a sudden all that coaching that Ren gave you back in your comedy boxing days to not go hard from the beginning. Now you're coming out with some really sweet jabs. A little move we call turnabout is fair play.

Because after all, Ren, did you not do exactly the same thing to William a ways back when in old Las Vegas? I did do exactly this thing, which is why I know that it would be a bad idea for us to fight on the same card together. Because, well, wait a minute. In your first first round of comedy boxing when you went in on whim you won no i did not okay and i know that you lost william because you were distracted watching

your loved one get punched yeah it's all her fault and i by the way this is not a right this is not a correct term comedy comedy boxing comedy boxing, because it's not, first of all, the names aren't funny enough. Second of all, there's no comedy. It's still boxing. It's still dangerous contact sport that is terrifying to the person in the ring

and people watching. If they're of a certain disposition as I am, it's just like, there's a, just a, a gimmick wrapped around it. It's still scary stuff to me, but it's cool. What do you like about boxing, William? Distracts me from the fact that I'm exercising because there's something more important going on,

you know, like dodging punches. And so that's, that's part of it is it's easier for me to get engaged in, in exercise. Um, also it's, I don't know if there's something animalistic and instinctual of going toe to toe with somebody like that. That's, that's appealing. So why, so why not just train? Why do you have to fight on this particular card? And what is a card honestly? So a card is just the lineup of people who are fighting in the match. Okay. And so, but in order for me to stay motivated in the training, I need the carrot and the fight and culminating in realizing why I did all that training is a very important part to stay motivated. How could anyone exercise if at the end of the exercise, there isn't the opportunity to physically hurt a friend or acquaintance?

Or be hurt. Yeah. Yeah. But William also said there was a carrot at the end too. So maybe you could stay eating a nice carrot. William also said there was a carrot at the end too. So maybe you could stay eating a nice carrot. The reward is terror and adrenaline and triumph over adversity and triumph over the face of your opponent. It's like me at the prom.

Okay. So let me ask you this, Ren. at the prom. So let me ask you this, Ren. Is there another match that William could train for that isn't the one that you had already set your sights on? There should be one coming up next April of 2024.

And if not, then there will almost definitely be one again in the fall of 2024. And William, that's too long to wait. Yeah, just because of the nature of me and how I engage with hobbies, need to go hard and fast. Ren, how does he engage in hobbies? He gobbles them up. He gets into something and he just will obsess over it 100 for a while and then some things like the banjo like he mentioned like when he first got into the banjo it was every day all the time

he bought four of them in within like a month you know that's how he goes with things and now now he picks up the banjo every few months and and plucks around and but that's tends to be how he goes with hobbies is he'll go really really hard for a while and then he'll kind of fade off. What about you, Ren? I'm more of like, I'll find something I like and I'll stick to it kind of slow and steady. Like what kind of hobbies are we talking about? What do you pluck with? Well, I did mention that I do play the ukulele and that's something that I pick up and put down all the time as well. I have I like to play tabletop role playing games. I started playing Dungeons and Dragons in the early 90s when I was like five years old and I continue to play that pretty much weekly today.

Very famous tabletop role playing game, Jesse, Dungeons and Dragons. Wouldn't know. I'm artsy. Right. It said in the initial petition that you had some concern, Ren, that William's hobbies tend to overshadow yours or take up space. Do you have a concern about that? When William focuses and obsesses about something, he tends to be very good at it because of the amount of effort and just, I don't know, he tends to be very good at things that he tries. Yeah, these are some pretty shiny opals, I must say. William, they look really good. And also just the bare nature that he's a great big strong man and I'm a very small, petite, not very strong woman.

But you wouldn't be fighting each other. No, but he, you know, bigger fighters tend to be more dynamic than the little ones. than the little ones. I mean, you can still get very, very good fights out of smaller fighters, but they tend to be the showier ones that get the standing ovations at the events. William said that he felt distracted when you fought in the same card together back in Las Vegas

because it was hard for him to see you get hurt. Is that your concern? Or is your concern that he's going to get more, he's going to overshadow you at this at this event because of how hard he goes and how good he gets at it and etc etc um i mean it's a bit of both of those things but really it could be a third thing that i didn't even ask about why don't you tell me one of the biggest things for me is just that when you are training for a fight uh you know a bit about yourself uh training for an imaginary fight you it takes a lot

of effort it takes it puts a lot of stress on your life and your lifestyle And it's a lot easier for one of us to be doing that at a time and the other person to be available to kind of pick up the slack around the house than for both of us to be going at the same time. Well, you're saying that Banjo the dog won't get fed and Lely will, someone was going to leave the door open because you're both going so hard and laylee and joe are going to wander off into the hills outside of utah you'll never see them again and the bills won't get paid and stuff hey if yesterday at the boxing gym i ran a mile and then did 100 squats like maybe it's hard for me to get up off the couch to feed those poor puppies yeah william your dogs are going to starve if you're both training. I think I can probably manage still.

But she brings up a good point. What is the point? What is resonating for you in what she brings up? There's a difference between going to a boxing gym and training in a fight camp. Diet changes, your body changes, your sleep changes. Everything is different because a switch is flipped in your head and you're really going hard at the hobby now. And that's really what's – there's a mental difference in what you prioritize.

Do you – I don't understand, and either one of you can answer this why can't i mean aside from the dogs not getting fed i know they're going to get fed it would seem to me that it would be it would there could be a benefit to training together you could amp each other up you could feed each other milkshakes made of raw eggs. That's some real dirty soda right there. And I have been trying to think, you know, put myself in that mindset of, yeah, we can support each other and, you know, commiserate with each other and help each other out that way. But just remembering how it was when we both fought and then I wasn't even training. It was just suddenly we're both fighting on the same card together. That, that one time that we fought

together, it's, there's a lot of like mental stress and emotional stress to it. Like I just, I want him there in the way that I was in his corner, the fight that he won. I want him to be in my corner, not worried about his own fight. That's about to come up, but worried about me. Yeah. William, why can't you be in her corner right now? Um, I, I could do both. I think, um, I can be in her corner and then warm up and do my own fight. But I think there's, you know, she's been very clear about me going to the gym. Isn't the problem. It's the event and, and being overshadowed. And I don't want to, I don't want to put words in her mouth because Ren is a, you know, her own person in her own right. But there's also, I think a big brother kind of thing. I'm a big brother and she has a big brother and he always is overshadowed her too. brother and he always is overshadowed her too. And so there's, there's a lot of sense, you know, I want to be sensitive to that, but it's, it's very strange because we work very well together as a married couple where we're great partners. And this is a situation where we both want to

be a little bit selfish and we're not very selfish a lot. And so, I noticed that you raised a finger. You wanted to interject Ren. What did you want to say? So you'll notice that, um, when he, we talk about us both being on the same card, he talks about watching my fight, then warming up and having his own fight. And, uh, when we were talking earlier about fight cards and about how some fighters are more dynamic and more uh likely to get that kind of uh special attention the way that they set up fight cards is the later fights you know the earlier ones tend to be less exciting the later ones are tend to be more exciting and uh he straight up just off the bat assumes i'm gonna be fighting first then he's gonna warm

up and have his fight i don't know how they do it in comedy boxing but in comedy comedy you have the opener and then the feature act and then the headliner and your suspicion is that william because he's about 30 feet tall and is gonna get in totally ripped, you're concerned he's going to be the headliner and you're going to feel like the opener. Yeah, I will feel a little bit down if I end up lower on the card than him. But even just to the fact that every time he talks about it, he just assumes he's going to be higher on the card than me.

Wow, Williamiam is that true you just assume it um yeah i and it is just the nature of our physicality uh heavyweights get the headlines wow william it says here that your ideal ruling should i rule in your favor is to reach some sort of compromise where you can both participate in the october event is that correct yeah normally a compromise would be each person is giving up something they want and in what this case ran his ideal ruling is that you shouldn't fight on the same card so that's the hundred percent of what she wants that is being given up so where is the compromise what are you offering in return for getting what you want and her giving up what she wants i guess i didn't uh a compromise sounded

good when an uh yeah it usually does but that's why this is a court of no compromise. He spent all his planning points on that rope-a-dope thing. That was good. You came out with that rope-a-dope. That was really good. Let me ask you one question. Well, actually, I'll ask you two questions. How long does it take to train to do the fight?

How long does it take to train to do the fight? And corollary, why not delay your training and shoot for next April? A couple of reasons. One is I have the motivation and the itch right now. And I feel like I need to engage in some sort of physical exercise now that after lockdown, I'm fully 100% working from home and just not very active. And so some of it is just, I feel like I'm withering away a bit. And this, I know that this is a hobby, a physical hobby that I will stick with for longer than a month. A training camp is usually about three months if you're going to do a full one.

month. A training camp is usually about three months if you're going to do a full one. And so, and then if we wait until April, I might not be motivated anymore, or she might want to do another one. Well, not if I order her not to, but your concern is that the itch will go away and you'll move on to another hobby, like didgeridoo playing or I don't know. What are some hobbies, Jesse? I mean, primarily didgeridoo playing. Didgeridoo. Yes. Sorry, I said it wrong.

I mean, there's unicycling or hacky sack. Yeah. I don't know. I went to UC Santa Cruz, so I only know a certain band of hobbies. There's devil sticks. Collecting psychedelic mushrooms in the woods right state quarters that's a hobby yeah shoelessness wren do you think that that william will lose the itch i i hope that he wouldn't i don't think that training super hard for a fight for three months and having the fight and then just,

you know, putting boxing behind him again. I don't think that's a very sustainable, uh, exercise regime. And ideally I would like for him to start coming to the gym with me and just get in the habit of coming to the gym with me, which I'm already in that habit. Whether I have a fight or not, I love going to my gym. I'm going to keep going. And I would love if he came along. And then once we're in the habit of doing that, then hop on the fight in April. Let's say for the sake of argument, across the street, what's the name of the gym? We might as well say it.

Legends Boxing. Legends Boxing. What's the name of the gym? Might as well say it. Legends Boxing. Legends Boxing. So let's say across the street from the gym there in Salt Lake City, there's another gym called Dirty Soda Boxing Gym or Bring Him Young Boxadrome. Let's call it that.

And they have a fight coming up in, like, say, November. How would you feel if William just walked across the street and did his thing over there and then fought in that one um if it was a separate event i would be more amenable to that if if we're not just like even if it's just a few weeks later if we're not training for the same thing on the same night and I have to be worried about his fight the same night as mine I would be that would be easier so just to be clear so it's you're more averse to him fighting on the same card as you than being in training at the same time as you even if the training is pretty intense yeah I think I think it would mean a lot to me to know that my event is separate and like tonight is my night. I want to just be able to focus on myself on that fight night.

There are other hobbies of hers that I haven't, I've consciously not stepped on her toes on. And so I did think of a compromise. Oh, good. I was to say you made a ruling that I could start playing the ukulele. was to say you made a ruling that I could start playing the ukulele. So you're saying your idea for a compromise is for you to step on her hobbies? When she does things, I get interested in them because I see her doing them. And you want to play ukulele. And so far, Ren has asked you not to, and you've observed that embargo. So the compromise would be if Ren

is okay with you playing the ukulele, then you're okay with not fighting in this October card that she's fighting. Because I could just get really good for the next three months in a ukulele type fight camp instead of a box. And then I could move on to boxing afterwards for the next part. William, William, we're not supposed to talk about Uke Fight Club. Okay, so that is a real compromise, and I will take it into consideration as I ponder my verdict. I am now going to go into my private Thunderdome, and I'm going to hit the heavy bag to some pump-up music

and try to punch a verdict out of that thing. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Wren, how are you feeling right now? I'm feeling pretty good. I think that I got most of the points that I wanted to make. I think they're pretty reasonable. How do you feel, William? Yeah, it sounds different when people start saying it out loud and asking the questions. And my confidence has slowly dwindled throughout this podcast, I think. As it should have.

I think that's fair. It's a fair reaction to your weird compromise plan that you came up with after not having a compromise plan. You're like, well, what if the compromise is Wren takes up cooking and then I put too much salt in there? Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson,

John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah!

We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case. First and foremost, solidarity forever. Yes, thank you, Jesse. As of this recording, the WGA continues to be on strike.

continues to be on strike. And in a few days, we'll know the outcome of the Screen Actors Guild negotiation with the American Motion Picture and Television Producers Trade Organization, the ones that simply did not respond to many of the WGA's very reasonable demands for a predictable living wage and to put guardrails

on the use of artificial intelligence and the creation of human stories. The SAG is in the midst of negotiations right now. And within a few days, they may even be on strike as well. Why is this happening? Why are all your favorite late night shows dark at the moment? Why is Daredevil stopped production? That's because Josh Gondelman picketed the Kingpin's house until they got out of town, along with all the other incredible WGA members who have been picketing and bringing attention to this fight. Soon SAG might be on strike as well. John, if only there were operations

companies doing creative work that were owned by the workers who did the work. And if only people could support those organizations directly by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. It's not an if only, Jesse, it's true. Maximum Fun is an employee-owned cooperative. But most, I dare say, of the big media companies, you know who you are, are not employee-owned cooperatives. And a lot of money is going to some big executives.

And not a lot of money is going to the creative people both behind and in front of the cameras who make these shows possible. If you want to know more about the strike and why it's happening, you can go to linktree.ee. There's a link on it in my bio and in my Instagram account. And in the meantime, there is some other work that we can do that is outside of the purview of the WGA. And that's hit the road. Right, Jesse? Well, we're going to have a look. Spoiler alert.

There will at some point be some exciting announcements in that department. But right now, right now we have a very particular exciting announcement to share, which is we're headed back to London, England, September 15th and September 16th as part of the London Podcast Festival. I will also be there doing Jordan Jesse Go with my colleague Jordan. So if you live in London or in Byron's, get your tickets right now. It is going to be a blast. It always is. I always love going out there. I know Ben Partridge is going to be doing Beef and Dairy Network that weekend as well. It's going to be a good old time at the London Podcast Festival. It always is there at King's Place. So number one, get your tickets. Number two, if you or someone you know lives

anywhere near London, England and has beef to share with us, we are going to need beefs. That's right. Speaking of beef and dairy, we don't need your dairy. We need your beef. Yeah, we're going to get out there and start picking fights if we need to. But we need cases from London, England. So if you live in London, you know somebody who does, send them an email, drop them a line, call them on WhatsApp. For tickets and more information about the London Podcast Festival, our events page is at MaximumFun.org slash events. That's MaximumFun.org slash events. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. You may be seated. So as I say, William, you are a deceptively crafty combatant.

You have a very quiet demeanor. And you laid back for a long time. and then you came out with that big move and you pointed out why shouldn't you jump onto ren's card bout that's exactly what she did early on in your relationship and you you lost your match probably because of that it wasn't just that she overshadowed you she got in your head and when you're in the ring there's one thing i learned while training for fake boxing on board to death you can't have romance in your mind when you're in the ring doesn't work that's when you get fake hit and i have to fake fall down watch that episode of board to death everybody

it's really good watch all aboard to death boy oh boy was that episode of Bored to Death, everybody. It's really good. Watch all of Bored to Death. Boy, oh boy, was that a good time. But I think that's a very, very fair point. You are owed one. This is a, you know, potentially you have an argument for a real grudge match here. You are owed one.

You are owed a chance to jump in and do a heel turn and jump in on Ren's title bout and potentially mess up her fighting brain. I really want to get to Salt Lake City and see both of you fight in separate boxing matches. I would go and see that because you're both so sweet. go and see that because you're both so sweet and i want to see how you transform werewolf style to that killer instinct what that's like in the in the in the ring and you know i want to i i want to see how like you know i have a picture of you both in time when is this happening in october um it's the second weekend in october i can't remember the date off the top of my head. Second weekend in October. Okay. So are we talking like Friday the 13th in October?

That looks pretty good. I'm going to circle that. Okay. This is what this case is about now. I'm coming to the fights. And the question is, where I'm going to see Ren fight or both of you fight or just, just William, who am I going to see in these fights I'm deciding because I'm the commissioner now I'm the commissioner of Judge John Hodgman Boxing League you two are the only members of this promotion you're the only two in the league so far welcome aboard you're our marquee stars and uh we're gonna have a big we're gonna get silk robes for everybody william you've got as i say you've got an argument to settle this grudge match but on the other hand something else happened you didn't just lose that one time

william you also won remember that time when you won at boxing that's what it's called jesse officially winning at boxing wouldn't know artsy yeah you won and why did you win because you had someone in your corner ren it was in your corner telling you don't go hard and burn out like you do with all your other hobbies be nice while you punch which is is the motto of the Judge John Hodgman Boxing League. It was really good advice and you won and it felt great, right? I don't think I even asked you, how great did it feel? It is a great feeling when you win in the ring with the crowd watching. Yeah, when you win at boxing, it feels great. Feels like maybe you couldn't have done it without her support, right? I mean, you've trained so hard, but wouldn't you say that that was an important part of it?

Yes. She was definitely the biggest support I had. Look, the only boxing I ever know is I know from the few movies that I've seen. And here's what I got to say. When you see a, when you see a, a Rocky training, it's not like you have two Rockies, both cracking eggs into each other's mouths and supporting each other. You have a Rocky and then you have a Burgess Meredith in a car behind him going faster, faster. And then behind Burgess Meredith is that robot that he's in love with. That robot that he's in love with. robot that he's in love with exactly and then behind that robot is frank gorshin because he's confused because he thinks he's the riddler and

burgess meredith is the penguin and he wants to get back on camera talking about human beings some of whom are in love who live on this mortal plane but for a moment and they bleed real blood out of their noses we're talking about a sport that has high physical stakes, but also high emotional stakes. And the reason why you can't have two Rockies is when you're in training, one of you has got to be the Rocky and one of you has got to be the coach, or at least the other one of you can't get in the way of the Rocky. You know what I mean?

You can't be like, I'm going to run up those stairs too. I love the Philadelphia Museum of Art. I'm going to run up those stairs. I'm going to try to beat you at it. William, if you had started running up the stairs first in this case, I'd be ruling in your favor. But you didn't. Wren was already running up those stairs. Wren was already running up those stairs. Wren was already running up those stairs.

And she's texted you. She said, I'm so excited to be running up these stairs. And that's when you get the idea to start running up the stairs of the Philadelphia Museum of Art, listening to pump up music. She was already there. She was already in training. This is her thing. It's got to be her thing. It's just got to be her thing. The October fight has got to be her thing. So I think you got it. You at the very least can't trip her while she's running up the stairs. You got to support her in this case. I give you tremendous credit. You offered a compromise and said, you'd be willing to walk away from the October fight if you're allowed to play the ukulele. And I'm going to say yes.

You can play the ukulele. And Ren, I don't know whether this is part of your acting out, your ferocious acting out, but you should never deny a person the right to play the ukulele. He can play that ukulele. He can play that banjolele. Just don't make a mistake and pick up the dog and start plucking the dog. You know what I mean? Get a real ukulele, the musical instrument I'm talking about. At the same time though, William, I don't think that you necessarily have to be just Burgess Meredith in the car.

I think that you need to get out of this particular fight and offer her emotional support for her to shine on this night. But if you want to get in training, if you want to get in shape, if you want to listen to pump up music and you want to go for something, you need a motivating thing to do and you don't want to wait until April. Ren has said that it is okay for you to train for something else. Now I was curious, is there, is there another boxing gym in Salt Lake city that you could go to, or for that matter, any other kind of contact sport because you've already talked about doing

bare knuckle. So I did a simple Google search, which I'm surprised you folks haven't done already, which is Salt Lake city Bloodsport opportunities. And I didn't get very far. It turned up the fact, I think the University of Utah entered a battle robot into the TV show BattleBots called Bloodsport in 2019. That wasn't very helpful. So then I did a simple search. I looked up legends boxing gym, and i don't want to blow up

your spot but it's in trolley square right i actually go to the one in bountiful oh you go to the one in bountiful wait there are two of them there are several in salt lake city well that tracks because when i simply when i looked up salt lake city mma gyms i was surprised to see there are like 30 of them. Salt Lake City has a lot of mixed martial arts. For a town that has a reputation where the only thing dirty in it is its soda. I mean, we're looking, we got Ultimate Combat Training Center, Snake Pit MMA, Combat Arts Strength and Conditioning, Gracie Barra Salt Lake, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. There's a lot of ways to get your fight on in SLC. There are probably more MMA training facilities and other combat sport training

facilities in Salt Lake City alone than in all of the Azores would be my guess. I think that's a good guess. In fact, when I spoke about combat art, strength and conditioning, remember when I, so now I was, I was thinking that you were at the Trolley Square because I was like, maybe there is a boxing gym right across the street. And there almost is. Combat art strength and conditioning is a 16 minute walk away from the Trolley Square legends. I don't know about the one in Bountiful. and encourage you, William, to check out some of these alternate, whether it's a boxing gym or jujitsu or MMA or something, something,

they've got to have a big fight coming up. There's always a big fight coming up. There wouldn't be movies if they didn't have a big fight coming up. Get into your own zone. Get into your own lane. I don't mind if you train simultaneously. I don't mind.

As long as the fight isn't on October 13th or whenever Ren's fight is, you can train right now for that. Or you could even go sooner, honestly. Like you said you need three months to get into shape? We're recording this in June, July, August, September. You could go September. It's not about that. It's not about keeping you from doing this thing it's about letting ren have her night her her big match ren's big match and i will come and see ren you fight on october 13th if you can set something

up for october 14th i'll probably still be in town, William. But even if it's another time when I can't come to Salt Lake City, I'll be rooting for you. You're both members of the Judge John Hodgman Bloodsport Squad. And remember, when you're punching, remember to punch nice. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman rules that is all Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom William, how are you doing? I'm doing okay I kind of saw the writing on the wall as we were talking things through

and I might take Judge John Hodgman up on that and see what else is around. Wren, how are you doing? I'm feeling pretty good. That was pretty much exactly what I was hoping for. You're going to take down this other chump? Yes, absolutely. All you need is the one-two. I have a mean six as well. Heck yeah. No idea what this means. Well, Wren, William, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. Another Judge John Hodgman cases in the books. We'll have swift justice in just a second. Our thanks to Reddit user Irony Maiden, that's a pun name, for naming this week's episode Fight Court. How come we didn't order anyone to come into the ring to the night court theme? Seems like a natural now. Yeah, well, when we get down there at Salt Lake City, you know that as co-commissioners of the league, we're going to be laying down a lot of rules. One, two, six. One, two, six. Yeah, it's going to be great down a lot of rules. One, two, six. One, two, six.

Yeah, it's going to be great. We're going to have a good time. Okay. Join the conversation at maximumfun.reddit.com. We ask for our title suggestions there. So if you contribute a title, you might end up on the air. You can also follow us on Instagram at instagram.com slash judge, John Hodgman. And on Facebook at Facebook.com slash judge,

John Hodgman. You're definitely going to want to see this dog trying to figure out what a banjo is. Yeah. It's like, you look at this, you feel like this dog has never seen a banjo before. His dog's a little ding dong dog.

Like my dog, sissy, just like just a couple little rocks in there. Splattering around, knocking around where a brain should be. Just a little jingle bell for a brain. Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. Our producers Valerie Moffat and Jennifer Marmer.

Welcome back, Jennifer Marmer. Congratulations on creating human life again. Our litigants this week were recorded by Toby Ali at Rocket Skates Recording in Salt Lake City. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Peggy writes, several times a year at random intervals, my husband rearranges the silverware drawer. My husband rearranges the silverware drawer. He says he's doing this to keep us from getting complacent and set in our ways. It's mildly annoying, but lately he's been talking about doing this while visiting our friends when they aren't looking.

Please order him to stop being great i added the last part one time i reorganized jonathan colton's kitchen for him because i thought he had done it all wrong and i had the consent i had the consent in fact i was i feel like i was invited to do this by by his uh by his life partner and whole human being in his own right, my old high school friend, Christine. But he was not happy about it. It was very personal how you organize your kitchen. You should not be messing with other people's silverware drawers. I love the idea of you, though, in somebody's kitchen with a stopwatch, like the boss at a factory in 1905 inventing the assembly line. Here's the thing.

This is the most important thing. If anyone is organizing a kitchen for the first time, there's this opportunity. You need two garbage areas. You need two garbages in different parts of the kitchen. Because if you get that one garbage that's always just to the left of the sink, someone's going to be getting in your way when you're doing the dishes or prepping those veg or whatever it is. You need an extra garbage bin if you can hack it. My second garbage bin was an absolute revelation. Put a skinny garbage can.

I went onto an e-commerce website, typed in the dimensions of the tiny space between my counter and my stove, got a skinny garbage can that fit right in there. When I'm chopping, I got some trimmings I don't want. Off they go. Just right into the garbage. I don't have to pick them up and carry them across the room. Right. And oh, by the way, Peggy, speaking of garbage, your husband's garbage.

I love this. This is the best. This is my, I think this might literally be my favorite husband scheme in the history of Judge John Hodgman. This is like, you know how when you open your browser, at least in my browser, I use Firefox, in my browser, it suggests articles for me to read? Yeah. Like plus sport opportunities in salt lake city yeah 100 one of these articles is uh how to prevent aging rearrange your silverware drawer to keep yourself from getting complacent complacent all right you know what jesse thorne you're right i take it back peggy your husband is not garbage

there is something he should not do this to other people outside of your marriage, but inside your marriage, this is some feisty stuff. I could see a little bit of play there. But then again, as we've just learned, turn about his fair play. If he messes with the silverware drawer, you get to mess with his sock drawer or whatever, hide his underwear. Yeah. As I'm pretty sure someone has been doing in my house. As long as he's willing to be messed around with as much as he's messing around with your

brain, then you can have some fun in that marriage, but keep it in the marriage. Keep it in the home. Don't take it outside. Hey, speaking of confrontation, my favorite topic. We, we have a podcast, very surprisingly for a people pleasing onlyasing only child like myself, that is based on confrontation. Confrontation is at the center of the podcast. It's people having disputes with each other and trusting me and Jesse to figure out who's right and who's wrong. So to do this show, we need disputes.

Send them in, won't you? And how about this for a particular case request? Anything to do with wrestling. We talked about boxing today. If you have a dispute surrounding wrestling, who is the best professional wrestler in athletic wrestling or, you know, wrestling entertainment? It's Colt Cabana. He's my friend.

Yeah, if it's Colt Cabana. Is that the luchador you met down in mexico city no colt cabana introduced me to the luchador the luchador is el guerrero maya yeah who would win in a fight el guerrero maya or colt cabana uh have you have you are you a wrestler did you lose a match that you should have won uh what if you are Perry Von Vicious, friend of the show and is an independent wrestler up there in New England? You have a grudge

against one of the wrestlers in your fun Western Massachusetts independent promotion. Maybe we can do some crossover with our friends over at Tights and Fights podcast. Wrestling.

Wrestling fights is what we're talking about. Of all kinds, if you've got them, send them in at maximumfun and Fights podcast. Wrestling. Wrestling fights is what we're talking about of all kinds. If you've got them, send them in at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. And we don't just want wrestling fights, do we, Jesse? No, we want fights of all kinds. If there is a dispute between you and someone in your life, or if you note that someone in your life is complaining about a dispute in their life that doesn't involve you, suggest to them to go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO and have it settled in the court of Judge John Hodgman, the only court that matters.

I mean, approximately, right? I'll just say it. The only court that matters. Why not? What matters? Nothing matters. It's 2023. Ever since Chrissy Teigen's Quibi judge show came to a natural end.

One time they announced that Snoop Doggy Dog was going to have a show with this format. It was like, uh-oh. But it never happened. You know why? I think he knew that we were there first and we've been doing it right for a long time. The only court that matters, MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. What are we going to do? Talk to you next time? I guess so. Say it, Jesse. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Boom, catchphrase.