Judge John Hodgman - First Whirlpool Problems

Episode Date: December 15, 2016

Courtney brings the case against her husband, Josh. They want to get a hot tub for their home but cannot agree on which type to buy. Josh wants a charming, wood fired cedar tub. Courtney wants a more practical standard fiberglass tub. Who’s right, who’s wrong? Tickets for Judge John Hodgman at San Francisco Sketchfest can be found at bit.ly/JUDGMENTBYTHEBAY! Click here for tickets to Maximum Fun's Very Very Fun Day! We need cases for JJHo at SF Sketchfest and at Very Very Fun Day in Chicago! To submit a case for either live show, visit MaximumFun.org/jjho! Thank you to Anne Mandola Jones for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, first whirlpool problems. Courtney brings the case against her husband, Josh. They want to get a hot tub for their home. They can't agree on which type to buy. Josh wants a charming wood-fired cedar tub. Courtney wants a more practical standard fiberglass tub.

Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hotchman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. Are you feeling better, Bailiff Jesse? Why don't you come in the hot tub? It's really nice. Jesse, I can flip out real easy too. It's okay. Sooner or later, everybody goes to the zoo. Come on, Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? We do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his hot tub is carved out of an enormous mound of Humboldt fog cheese? Yes. Yes. Very well, Judge Hodgman. No real premise to that joke, by the way.

Just a funny type of cheese. I love a Humboldt Fog ref. You know, the beauty of the Humboldt Fog hot tub is not the cheese so much, but the thin layer of ash that makes it medicinal. Courtney and Josh, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment. One of your

favors, you're both going to get a chance to guess the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom. Josh, you have been brought here against your will by your wife, Courtney, so you get to guess the cultural reference first, or make Courtney guess

first, and maybe get some information out of that. What is your decision, Josh? I'm going to guess Ferris Bueller's day off. All right. There you go. That's it. Later, guys. Looks like it's Bailiff Jesse's day off.

Yep. Shut it down. I hope you're happy, Josh. Well done. That's it. That's the sound of a gavel. Well done, Josh. Well, I'm glad we could do business here.

Thank you. Uh, that was a rare, uh, home run. That's a good thing in sports, right? Jesse.

Yes, sir. Right. Let's just like, you just run the bases, right? Yeah, you got it.

There's no, there's no taking it back. It's a free pass to score a point or multiple points, which in baseball are known as runs. Yeah. And, uh, and we haven't had a hit out of the baseball lodge like that in a long time.

Baseball is not played in a lodge, Your Honor. It's not an elaborate gifting ceremony of the Northwest Coast Native American peoples. Yeah, I think if you really looked at it, you would see there's a lot more similarity than you're willing to give it. You're thinking of potlatches. Ah, that's right. But yeah, no, we haven't had such a solid and accurate guess, especially, and I got to give it to you, Josh. You know, most people, they pass that guess on to the next person by some time, but you didn't. You came out swinging. You clearly know Ferris Bueller's day off.

I haven't had a traumatic switcheroo like this since election night. You guys, this is terrible. This is terrible. This is not how it's supposed to be. Why don't you explain to your wife the scene that I was quoting from and why it is relevant to this case? Well, so it's at the end of the movie and I don't remember the friend's name, but the friends, they've just crashed the car. Cameron? Cameron. Yeah. And he's basically had a freak out. Hey, Courtney, next time he doesn't remember something, don't remind him. Because that's how I'm going to get out of this thing. All right. Sorry. So, yeah. So,

Cameron is sitting on the end of the diving board. They haven't crashed the car yet, but the odometer is way off from what it's supposed to be. And he's basically catatonic, and she's trying to coax him off the diving board by coming into the hot tub. And instead of doing that, he falls into the pool and almost drowns. falls into the pool and almost drowns. You really have a sophisticated and complex memory of the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off for a guy who can't name the second lead. Maybe it just shows what's important to me. And what was the name of Ferris Bueller's girlfriend's character?

Was it like Simone, something like that? I don't know. Courtney's making a face like she knows the answer to this. No, it was a weird name. Hang on. I've learned my lesson. Oh, no, I know it. So I'm going to win this one.

Sloan. And I did not look it up. I certainly did not need to look up the name of the actor. Can you name the actor? Oh, no. I'm terrible at that one. Oh, I mean, I know Matthew Broderick. That's probably as far, as deep as I can go in that movie.

Yeah. The actor who played Sloane is Mia Sara. And the actor who played Cameron, you don't know who that is, do you? No, I don't know that either. How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? I mean, you still win the case, but how dare you?

how dare you? I mean, so you still win the case, but I mean, how dare you? How dare you guess Ferris Bueller's day off and not know the name of Alan Ruck? One of the great, great character actors of all time.

I bet you can't even name which one of my college friends looks a lot like Alan Ruck in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Yeah, that's what I thought. It's Matt Dobbs. I bet you can't even name where me and Sarah went to high school with my friend Patrick Flynn before he moved to Brookline. Yeah, you don't even know that that's St. Ann's in Brooklyn Heights, New York. Yeah, I guess we're going to have to go ahead with this case, Judge Hodgman. I bet you don't even know why I chose that cultural reference.

I don't know why. I mean, other than that, there's a hot tub in it. Wrong! I chose that cultural reference because Ferris Bueller is a monster just like you. He's a horrible, horrible person. That movie is about a sociopath who uses his friends without consideration to their life at all.

So you're on Team Rooney? In order to amuse him, that's going to go down a whole different alley. The Jeffrey Jones alley ends in stuff we can't talk about on the air. It's a sad alley. You don't know what that is. Guess what? You just missed another cultural reference.

No, Ferris Bueller is a sociopath who uses his so-called friends for his own pleasure and delight. He uses Cameron to get his car. He has absolutely no concern for Cameron's wellbeing and tries to pass off traumatizing him as giving him a little life lesson. Oh, like our president. And the other thing about that scene is that it's, um, because Ferris Bueller rescues Cameron from the pool.

It's one of those moments in the film that disproves a rather tantalizing internet fan theory that in fact Ferris Bueller doesn't exist. And Cameron is the main character and Ferris Bueller is kind of like a Fight Club Tyler Durden creation of his own sick mind i love that one judge hodgman is this entire case about hot tubs uh gonna be used as like a satirical framework for your famous political satire i just you know what i'm here i'm here in the in the chambers and I got Buddy the cue card guy just making that, like, fill time hand gesture.

Because Josh won the case. Josh won the... How old are you, Josh? I'm 39. Oh! Yeah, right in the wheelhouse. Hey, producer Jennifer Marmer, just make a note. Make sure I get their ages before I do these cultural references.

You ruined the podcast for your own pleasure. Good job. I can't wait to share a hot tub with you. You're going to fart in it to laugh. Take a nice thing like a hot tub, make it into a fart tub. That's you, Josh. So angry. I mean, Courtney, the truth is,

this is one of those situations, right, where clearly you win the popular vote. That's good to know. Doesn't really help, though. By the imperfect laws that we use to govern this courtroom, Josh, you are officially the winner of this case. I'm going to talk to you. I'm going to

see if there's anything redeeming in you at all by talking to you. All right. This dispute is about a hot tub. You guys live in the Boston area. Is that correct, Courtney? Yes, that's correct. Where in Boston do you live? We live in Lexington. Lexington, Massachusetts. And how far is that from the Back Bay? I don't know. Have you ever been to Boston? Several pounds away. Yeah.

No, I'm... It's a historic suburb, would you not say? Yes, I would say that it would probably take about 40 minutes by T. Yeah. Famous for its historical shot heard around the world the battle of lexington the first battle of the american revolution get ready for the battle of lexington 2 happening right now that's right and so you know what you don't usually have a lot of in new england is uh due to uh climate issues is outdoor hot tubs but you want to put one in is that not right courtney

that is correct because of the climate because of the well explain what you mean climate issues is outdoor hot tubs, but you want to put one in. Is that not right, Courtney? That is correct, because of the climate. Because of the, well, explain what you mean. There is nothing quite so nice as sitting outside on an incredibly cold evening, especially if it's snowing, and enjoying being warm and toasty in a nice hot tub. And so you would, and I can attest to having some outdoor hot tubs during the dead of winter at East Heaven Hot Tubs in Northampton, Massachusetts, Buzz Market. I can do anything I want now, because

the rules of this court have just been shredded by Josh winning fair and square. Oh! So mad. It's a wonderful feeling, but the dispute is over whether or not you're going to get a prefabricated fiberglass hot tub or Josh's preference, a big old wooden hot tub that's

powered by fire and made with his own hands. Correct. Now, first of all, Josh, are you a Nick Offerman? Can you actually build a hot tub with your own hands or is this something that you've been scheming about doing for a long time? Or you've been painting lead miniatures in the basement of orcs and stuff? Well, there's nothing wrong with painting lead miniatures. We'll start with that. Why?

You think I... That's right. The court stands corrected. I'm totally humbled. Thank you. I think you struck a nerve. No, I think building it could be part of the fun of putting this together. And you do it.

Yes. Have you done it? No, that's what we're here for today. But I think if we get a yes from you, then yeah, it's getting built. Have you done anything like it? Is there any reason that I am to believe that you a miniature painter and half remember of ferris bueller is capable of doing what you claim constructing a wooden hot tub that will be powered by fire yes we've are we built a camping hot tub that we took in our canoe that was powered by the campfire on our canoe trip this summer. I don't know whether you just brought a bunch of boards.

No. So it's an inflatable tub and we built a heat exchanger out of copper coils and a battery powered pump. And it actually got so hot we had to turn it down because we heated this huge pool of water up. So yeah. And I believe you sent in a picture of this that we'll put on the show page at MaximumFun.org.

I mean, let me scroll down and take a look at your... Yeah, so there is a photo here of this, but this is an inflatable hot tub. It is. Where'd you go camping? Up in Maine on the Saco River. Oh, inland Maine? Yeah.

What a shame. Not go to Acadia National Park? I have been to Acadia, but we didn't go on this trip. Can we not just spend this entire episode listing things in New England for one episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast? Oh, see what you've done? See how you've emboldened my bailiff you operate through pure dominance you will not be satisfied until i am humiliated completely all of maine is beautiful but uh but this hot tub looks like junk this is like a this

is like a kiddie pool that you brought with you. Oh, yeah. This is a homemade camping hot tub. So this is not what I'm imagining building on our house. This isn't like one of those sweet camping hot tubs that rolls off an assembly line in China in some ritzy prefab camping hot tub. But this is not a homemade camping hot tub. This is an inflatable commercial product, and it is not made of woods. Well, so the tub itself is an easy set pool, but the heat exchanger and all the things that make it a hot tub were handmade by me and my friend. You made the heat exchanger? Yeah.

You bent the copper and everything? Bent the copper. We made a sheet metal enclosure for it. We built, yeah, built the whole thing. Do you just fell down and then one day you woke up with the ability to do this? Or did you do some research or something? It's funny. We've been talking about it for maybe 15 years, scheming on how to build this.

And just one day we were like, all right, we're either doing it now or we should just stop talking about it. And so we built it. Well, I think that the tipping point of them finally building it was no longer being 22 and broke and being able to afford the copper and parts that they needed. A lot of the discussion was how to do it for like $3 cheaper. And it's sort of like, well, maybe we can just spend the $3 and just buy some of the parts like the Easy Set Pool. Did you go ahead and buy those pipes from a local toothless man? There was a version of this where we tried to build it out of stuff we scravenged out of a dumpster. But no, we bought all that. We went to Home Depot. As you get older, you start to sell

out. You just go to the store and just buy stuff. And so, yeah. Yeah. You know what? I would not call designing and manufacturing your own heat exchange system selling out i actually have to as as angry as i am with you i have to acknowledge that you did something that i could never ever do and i apologize for uh maligning your other hobby of painting orcs. You win, daddy. We did also build some stuff for the playground. So that's like a play. We built a play fort.

So out of wood. So Courtney, it sounds like Josh does have some skills at scheming up and making things out of wood and metal. I have no doubt that he could actually do it. So why don't you want him to do it? Why don't you want your man to construct a beautiful wooden thing with his own hands and he can sit in a stew of his own self-satisfaction like he's doing right now? My issue is just that the Cedar hot tub,

while beautiful and while certainly within Josh's wheelhouse to build, is going to take a lot more maintenance and it's going to take time to keep it going in the middle of winter. If we decide we want to use it, we're going to have to build a fire, stoke the fire, wait for the hot tub to heat up. Whereas a regular hot tub, we could just an hour earlier, push a button and get it up to hot tub temperatures, or even keep it near hot tub temperatures during the times when we think we're going to want to use it. So Courtney, you say it takes an hour for a regular commercial fiberglass hot tub to heat up. Is it much longer for a wood- fiberglass hot tub to heat up?

Is it much longer for a wood-fired hot tub? I think it depends on what temperature you keep it at on a regular basis for the regular one. Right. You two are aware that no one who has a hot tub in their home actually uses it ever? I don't think that's true. It's true. Jesse.

Because you have to plan ahead. No one's like, you know what I would love to do in 90 minutes? I'm planning ahead for it right now. I would love to have a hot tub in 90 minutes. If I could hit a nest thing on my app and fire up a hot tub back at my house, I'd totally be doing it.

I would get in that hot tub and I would have some white wine. Oh, wait a minute. That's not me at all. I probably wouldn't do that. But yeah, I think that having a hot tub would be a lovely thing. Why do you hate hot tubs so much? I don't. I love hot tubs. But that's the trick of the hot tub. The hot tub is a device that convinces you to think that you would like to have a hot tub in your home. But actually what a hot tub in your home is, is just like the world's most complicated and expensive bread maker. Like you buy a bread maker, you think, oh, I'm making all my bread from here on out in this bread maker. And then you never use it again. And it shows up at the Salvation Army in three years.

And a hot tub is like that, only you can't give it to the salvation army it's too big and wet i don't want to eat any of that hot tub bread though that's weird i would never do that it's better for stews well i mean i think that there is an issue though courtney that bailiff jesse raises which is you're saying that for the hot tub to heat up quickly, you have to keep it at a certain temperature, right? Correct. And that temperature, that's powered by electricity, correct? Yes. Right. So it's sort of like, it's going to be an expense.

An expense of energy and money to keep it at baseline. The wood-fired hot tub would not incur well that's true that we would have to use more energy just along the line to keep it but um that's one thing is i have josh hasn't demonstrated to me that uh having the wood-fired one that it won't the pipes and stuff involved that it won't, the pipes and stuff involved in it won't freeze if we're not keeping it at the regular temperature or the water inside wouldn't freeze. Well, that's a good point, Josh. You're going to keep water in your cedar hot tub all winter long?

Are you going to skate on it in February? Well, so you don't, you actually do have to keep water in them because it's like a barrel. So they have to stay wet in order to stay watertight. So Courtney's got a point. You can't just drain it when you're not using it. You've got to keep water in there all the time. But even the wood-fired ones can have an either electric or propane auxiliary heater that you could set at just above freezing or something like that if that's what you're worried about. So there is a way of solving that.

Yeah. Here's one little DIY solution. You got your wood-fired hot tub and to keep the water at temperature, you just plug in a hairdryer, turn it on hot and toss it in. So this brings up a sort of tangential comment that I wanted to bring up because we submitted a letter that was on the docket clearing episode. And I'm pretty clear on that one. This was on the toaster oven dispute.

Wait a minute. That you told me to take. Shut your pie hole, sir. You already got a hearing on the docket. And now you're coming back for another bite. Is that what's happening? That is exactly what. Although I did lose that one.

Boy, oh boy. What was it? Your beef before? This was the... We needed a new toaster oven, and I wanted a four-slice toaster, and Courtney wanted a toaster oven. You guys got the Breville. We did get the Breville,

and it's fantastic, by the way. I don't know if you're starting to get money for that or not, but you should, because we bought it based on your description. We had a giveaway. Breville was very nice about it, and I still love their products. Moxie, East, uh, East heaven hot tubs, they just take what we give them and walk away. Yeah. Take, take, take, take, take, take, take. That's all they do. So what's your, so what's the tangential issue with regard to your toaster oven? You want to

toss that into your hot tub? No. So at the, so Courtney was willing to compromise and get both. And I was concerned about the having too many things on the counter. And you suggested if I was worried about that, I could just take it into the bath with me, which seems a little bit like a threat on my life. I don't know if that's how it was meant. And this is a second one of bringing electronics into the hot tub. So I'm wondering if there's a little bit of a theme developing. I don't know whether that speaks to the slow erosion of my comedic imagination as I get older or just an intuitive sense that I want you to be electrocuted that I hadn't even recognized until you drew the connection. It's like we were fated to meet time and again. And for me to suggest that you sit in a tub with more electrical equipment thrown into it. By the way, to the kids who are driving, listening to this, don't toss any toasters or hair dryers into bodies of water.

That's how you will die. Don't ever do it. So you would have to create some sort of non-wood heat source to keep the water above freezing. Is that right? That's right. There'd be an auxiliary heater in addition to the wood-fired stove that would sort of keep it at some baseline temperature. And so can we basically call it a wash on wastefulness of energy on both of these things? So I think if we were going to be really honest,

Courtney, the fiberglass hot tubs are more efficient because they're better insulated. So they hold onto more heat between use. And I think that's made up for the fact that wood fire hot tub would come from wood that we would split and is locally sourced and all that good stuff. So I think it is a wash, but I think if you're counting pounds of carbon or something like that, the other one is probably more energy efficient. Well, not least that burning wood in and of itself is significantly environmentally deleterious, especially in an area where people live. That's why there are no burn days in many places. They contribute directly to low quality air.

By the way, Bailiff Jesse, you're killing it. Thank you for that. Sure. I'm just going to sit back and listen to this guy's sputter. I got more plans to say the word deleterious later. Oh, I love it. I love it. Go. Go on, answer for yourself, Josh.

Boy, oh boy. Scammed your way onto my podcast twice, you get the cultural reference. Live it up, buddy, you know, I think you're on my podcast twice. You get the cultural reference. Live it up, buddy. Go on. Perfect. So, you know, I think part of the fun of the wood fire hot tub though, is the wood smoke, right?

It's that you're out there, it's cold. I mean, the same way, you know, uh, fire in the fireplace during the winter time is just nice. And it's, you know, I think that's part of the whole experience. You know, I think if you just wanted to sit in warm water, like we've got a bathtub. Could you get a fiberglass hot tub and then just put some liquid smoke in there? You know, I'm happy to drink a PD scotch or something like that. Yeah, we could probably make that work. Just to get a sense, do you have a sense of how much wood you have to burn in order to have a good two or three hour?

Well, maybe not to have a good 90 minute soak. I think it's not that much. I think you basically like load up the burner and you let it run. It's like running a wood stove for an hour. It's, you know, certainly, you know, you'd want to have a nice pile of wood there. But, you know, you're not burning, you know, a whole forest or something to heat up the hot tub. It's, you know, a little, you know, it's a little fire. Got it.

And Courtney, Josh paints a very woodsy image. Is it one that is simply unattractive to you? Or do you simply feel it's just not as easy as a fiberglass tub? It does sound like an attractive picture i just um i'm concerned that if there is maintenance that needs to be done on it that we just won't do it the way that we're supposed to and well talk to me about talk to me about the maintenance situation here because quite honestly having a big honking piece of electronic equipment in a fiberglass tub regulating the heat in a bunch of sitting water, that requires. I've been to homes and places that have had hot tubs, and they're always broken. All those hot tubs are always broken, and you've got to call a man or a woman to come fix it for you.

This is just a, what he's talking about is just a barrel full of water with a fireplace attached to it. Am I not right, Josh? That's basically the long and short of it. So Courtney, what is the maintenance you foresee being difficult with the caveman hot tub? Well, I just, you know, the winters here are not kind to wooden things um so i'm worried about the woods rotting and things developing in that way but even more than the maintenance i worry about how long it's going to take to get the water going um how hard it's going to be to change the temperature up or down once it's going,

the fact that the heater is actually in the tub with you, and we have small children who will enjoy using the hot tub with us. And I'm not so thrilled about that. And it's also, if you've ever looked at the seats in these hot tubs, it's just a wooden bench that goes all around, which doesn't seem nearly as comfortable as the sort of designed to be sat in nice seats in the regular hot tubs. Guys, I don't mean to talk about an elephant in the room here, but what about jets? That's a very good point is that they have, although the cedar hot tubs that I have seen do mention jets, I think it's many fewer than in a commercial tub. Well, let's get down to brass jets on this. Josh, do you have a plan? I mean, not just a vague plan, but actually plans for the hot tub that you plan to build?

Yeah. Does it have jets? It does have jets. How? So at some level, the componentry is actually pretty similar to a regular hot tub. It's just like installed through portholes in the wood. So there are pumps, there's filters, there's like, especially if you start adding the auxiliary heaters, it's essentially everything that's under the cover of a regular hot tub, just in a little box that sits next to the hot tub. So it has all of those same things.

And presumably it will have a cover, an incredibly unattractive vinyl cover, just like every other electric or, you know, fiberglass hot tub has, that you can cover it up when you're not using it, right? Absolutely. All right. And where did you get these plans? So there are companies that sell kits. So we haven't bought it yet, obviously, but we would buy a kit that would come. Actually, the wood parts are all pre-cut. It's really building it sort of sounds very grandiose. I think it's really assembling it is what we would do.

And Courtney mentioned that the heating source is inside the tub. How do you light fire underwater? So they describe them as a snorkel tub. So basically there's a wood stove that's submerged in the water and that's sort of the chimney comes out. And, you know, for safety, there's basically a fence around that. So one thing you do lose is you lose one seat's worth of space in the hot tub because basically like a wood stove is taking that seat

oh so there's a fence in front of the heat source that's right a wooden it looks like a picket fence right and you feed the heat source obviously from the outside perimeter of the hot tub right because you're not putting your wood underwater right so either through the there's two different kinds one where it's sort of built into the wall where you feed it from the outside. And there's another where the top of the wood stove kind of comes up and you feed it from above the waterline kind of straight down. There is a dispute as well over where the hot tub should be? Yes. Tell me about that, Courtney. We have two potential sites for the hot tub. One is that the house that we live in, some previous owner of the house built a fenced-in, enclosed deck off of the master bathroom that I think they actually had a hot tub on.

And that's where Josh would like to put a hot tub. I would prefer to put it— Yeah, that sounds like the hot tub deck. I would prefer to put it Yeah, that sounds like the hot tub deck Well, one of the things that we would like to do with this hot tub Is when we have visitors or have friends over Would be to use the hot tub with a group And enjoy the nice evening

What, are you guys a reality show? What, is the Bachelorette over at your house? No, but I You live in Massachusetts. Let me ask you a quick question. You guys going to hot tub in the nude? No. Because I don't know what you're capable of at this point. You're going to have people over in Massachusetts and they're going to sit in bathing suits together? That's not... where are you from?

I'm from Texas. I don't understand you at all. Is there a lot of hot tubbing, did you grow up hot tubbing in Texas? No. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Houston. So where'd you get the taste for the tub? I go on an annual ski trip with a group of friends,

and we always rent a house that has a hot tub, and it's the best part of our day during this trip is coming home after a day of being out in the snow and sitting in this hot tub and drinking wine. Just a chance to relax in the snow with your friends and not listen to Josh hammering some copper pipe together over there. Exactly. Yeah, that's hot tub country out there. The West.

Where do you go skiing? Well, not exactly the West. We go in Vermont. Vermont, Maine. Yeah, okay. Western New England. Western New England. the west we go to vermont vermont maine okay yeah okay western new england western new england but hot hot tubbing is a seems to me as a western tradition that ski places in new england honor because it is part of this the hedonism of the the ski trip and you want to bring all

that and put it in your backyard in Lexington. Yes. Well, you know what? I admire your dreams. I really do. If you're going to try to expand your sense of self to be the kind of person who brings people home to get in a hot tub with you. I love it. You make it sound so sordid. Yeah, that's what it is. Taking a bath with other adults.

I mean, I love hot tubs. But you have to, let's call it what it is. It's a big human soup. And so you want to have friends over and to get in the tub after you guys have your fondue or whatever. After you share as much saliva as you can at dinner, you want to get into a soup with them and get loose.

And so why is hot tub deck not appropriate for that? To me, it feels weird to bring people through. Our house is laid out in a way that our bedroom is way off of the common area of the house. And so it's sort of taking people into the back of the house through into our bathroom and through our bathroom, which to me feels a little bit creepy and also means that while normally when we have people over, we don't necessarily have to have our bathroom in perfect order. Anytime that we wanted to have people come and use the hot tub, they'd have to walk past.

I think it's a little creepy that your guests will have to go through a private, intimate space before they get half nude and get into a bathtub with you. Yes. Okay, I understand. Bad flow is what you're saying. Exactly. Plus, it is really far from access to our kitchen, which is where the wine would be. Yeah. And that's a big part of access to the hot tub is access to the wine. So your idea is that you're going to put your fiberglass hot tub

outside the door to the kitchen. You all have a nice time and you all get in the hot tub together. Are your friends going to go for this, really? Are they all hot tub people too? Yes. All right. this really are they all hot tub people too yes all right josh do you concur that you're you guys are a bunch of hedonist weirdos who are just hiding in new england but in fact would rather be in napa so yes um yeah no i i think that we do i think what what Courtney describes are like people coming over

and hanging out at the hot tub I think that is the vision but realistically is that going to happen I think it would happen but I think that also gets at why I don't think it's weird having it back off of you know our bedroom is that I feel like the people we would go and hang out

in the hot tub know that this is not an entree into something else. And people who might be confused about that, I don't necessarily want to get in the hot tub with them. So, you know, I'm not sort of worried about those issues. When you say entree, you're afraid that if you invite your friends after a little wine and cheese to get into a bathtub with you that they might think that you want to hug and kiss them. That's exactly right. That's what I'm worried about.

Okay. Is it that the hot tub deck is just the perfect place for it? Why not compromise on this one thing, Josh, and put your fire trap out in the yard? Because I knew the cultural reference. Yeah, but let's just say hypothetically, you were a decent non-monster who cared about the other people in your life. Why is the yard an inappropriate place for a hot tub? So the thing that I like best about the side porch is actually that it's enclosed with a fence. And I like the idea of being able to sort of keep that space off you know sort of i i am worried about the fact that we've got kids so that way you can say that way you can say to your guests

now i don't want you to get the wrong idea but i'd like you to take off most of your clothes and come with me through my bedroom to a private soaking porch where no one can see what happens exactly okay and how do you you're both are using your kids as weapons in this you're yeah cordy you're afraid the kids are going to burn their their toes underwater and you and and uh josh you're afraid that the kids uh are gonna escape from your hot tub enclosure unless it's unless it's in this high-walled hot tub tech. Unless it's, well, I think if it's off the kitchen, then it's just like, that's like where they are all the time. They're out on the swing set.

They're out playing. It's basically the hot tub would be right next to where they are in the yard versus like- How old are your kids? So Mac is eight and Liam is six. Now, look, I happen to know some people in Massachusetts and I know someone who put in a pool, which is kind of a cool tub. And there were some pretty heavy-duty laws about fencing around the pool for child safety.

Are you aware of any regulations such as that with regard to installing a hot tub on your property? such as that with regard to installing a hot tub on your property? I don't know of any laws, but I also like it makes sense that you'd want a fence around it. Well, right. So wouldn't it be enough for you to build a fence around a fiberglass hot tub? That's a nice project. The building it wasn't the attractive part. It was the product at the end. And the product being having a wood-fired hot tub on a wooden deck surrounded by tall wooden walls as close to your house as possible. That's right.

That's the dream. Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to hear. I'm going to go through my tunnel into my enclosed and toasty baseball lodge, and I will sit in a bowl of my own juices, and I will come out with the correct decision in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. This is a question, honestly, for both of you, Courtney and Josh. If it's like none degrees, which I think it often is in New England in the winter months,

and you get out of the hot tub, do you just instantly turn into Iceman from the X-Men? Yeah. When it's that cold, you get out and you can feel the water start to freeze on your skin and your hair. So you got to go quick. Actually, one of my very favorite trips where we were using the hot tub, my friends and I actually, our hair froze up above the hot tub because it was so cold outside. So we were nice and warm in the hot tub and our hair was completely frozen solid. You know that sounds mental, right? It was so much fun.

Courtney, how do you feel about your chances today? You know, I'm not feeling as confident as I was coming in. Josh made some good points, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Josh, how do you feel about your chances? Two-part question. How do you feel about your chances? And second part, tell me about the jets you're going to install into this thing. Well, at first, I guess I'm feeling pretty good.

You know, and it's funny, I think... Don't need to elaborate. Tell me about the jets. What do you want to know? Do you want to know where they're located? What are we talking about here? How many jets do we have? I think it's one of those things when you're, you know, assembling yourself, you can have as many jets as you want. You could take it up to 11 if you wanted. Oh, wow.

What if you had more jet than wood? Like, what if most of it was made up of jet, but then the wood kind of held the jets together? This would be like the Dyson hot tub held in by some invisible jet of air or something. Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. Now we're talking. Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. Now we're talking. Hover it over one giant jet that if you stick your foot in there, it gets chopped off. Wow. I'm on your team now, Josh. We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need.

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Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyperacademic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time.

And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners, at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. You may be seated. So, you know, this court has to honor its obligations and the immediate summary judgment that Josh very frustratingly earned and find in his favor. And it's painful.

It burns like when you put your foot on an underwater heating source. And yet the pain is mitigated to some degree by the fact that I absolutely feel strongly that if I were to have a hot tub in my daily life, it would be a cedar hot tub, traditional cedar hot tub. Um, before I got one of those fiberglass things, because those, those things are molded to your body and they feel weird. And I don't think they're attractive and I don't like them. And I think that there is no question that there is something profoundly romantic and wonderful about lighting a fire, letting it heat up your hot tub that you had made with your own

hands, sitting in it with the woman you love. And let's be honest, that's the best thing for a hot tub. Hot tubbing with friends, look, I know everyone gets into it. I went over to an old friend's house, and he had a hot tub. And he said, do you guys want to get in the hot tub? And I'm like, do I have to get in my bathing suit? And he said, if you want to. I'm like, oh. Come on, Jonathan Colton, you said. Yeah, come on, Jonathan Colton.

I didn't grow up in Connecticut. I'm from Massachusetts. We don't play that. And the truth is that this hot tub deck seems like the perfect place for it and I would imagine might satisfy some of the legal requirements with regard to gating it off with regard to children. I don't know if those requirements exist. I am ordering you to investigate and comply with all of the law that is in your area. I especially am ordering you to consult.

You have a wood burning fireplace in your home already. Do I understand that correctly? That's right. Right. I order you to consult with your local fire department about adding an open fireplace on a deck next to your home. If that is illegal, then real-life law trumps all fake internet law. I think you're lucky to know that there are all kinds of, and I've been looking them up, there are all kinds of traditional cedar hot tub kits that you can build that are not powered

by wood, that are powered by alternate sources such as gas and electric. If that is the safer way to proceed with a hot tub that close to your home, indeed barely, almost concealed by your home, then go with that. And Courtney, I have this comfort to offer you, which is this. Josh was going to do this anyway. Someday you are going to go out, just as every time I have said to my family, no pets. Petey was a wonderful cat, but he's dead now. And I don't want to handle another creature's feces for the rest of my life. And they all go, sure. And then I go out of town on tour and then I come back and it's like, Hey, guess what? We have seven hamsters or Hey, guess what? We took in a cat from a friend

just for a little while. And then that cat never goes away. And guess what I'm doing again, friend just for a little while and that cat never goes away. And guess what I'm doing again? Handling feces. True story. But just you could easily go out of town for whatever reason. And Josh, you'd come home and Josh would be halfway done with it anyway. The minute you get out of there, he's compelled to work on this project. And you got a little project space. and you got a little project space. So let them do it. Sometimes this is what happens. Someone wins the electoral college even though they didn't win the popular vote.

And even though there is no clear mandate, you just got to let that person do what they're going to do and show the world what a terrible idea it was. The nice thing about having this enclosed hot tub deck is that the shame of a failed project, if it is a failed project, will be something he will have to look at every day from the bathroom and yet will be hidden from your neighbors by those high walls.

If it is not a failed project, you are going to enjoy a wonderful hot tub together. And he is going to be responsible for getting that thing going when you want to have a nice warm soak. And what's more, one year from completion of the hot tub project, if it's not to your liking,

you get a fiberglass hot tub and you put that in the yard. Then you've got two hot tubs. You're going to be the most sensuous people in Massachusetts. If you don't like everything about that thing, you can, there's nothing. You are already going to a place where you are transforming reality to fit

your Alpine ski dreams. I see no reason why you shouldn't reject the monster who gamed the system to get his fire tub and let Ferris Bueller sit by himself while you, Alan Ruck, winner of the popular vote, Courtney, get your own personal fiberglass hot tub for you and your friends. But you've got to wait a year. You've got to give a year after the finishing to see if you really want to have that in your life. I'm sorry, Courtney. Sometimes things don't go the way any of us want them to.

And Josh, I hope you're happy with yourself. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Courtney, how do you feel right now? John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Courtney, how do you feel right now? You know, I feel okay about it. I do like the look of the Cedar Hot Tub.

I'm a little more upset about having it have to be on the patio, but it just means that our youngest is going to be able to bring all of his bath time dinosaurs into the hot tub, and he'll be really happy. Josh, how are you feeling? I'm feeling happy. Although now with that bit at the end, I'm feeling like the pressure's on. This has got to really happen now. I think more than anything, what Courtney and I needed was a little bit of a push to actually pick one of these

things and do it. So I think that part of it's great. Can I come over? Yeah. Do I have to bring my swim trunks? We would provide a swim trunk. Good. Community swim trunks. Josh, Courtney, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty.

This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

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John Hodgman case. Ah, it is time to relax here in my Chambers hot tub that is full of Diet Moxie. Warm to the perfect temperature. And Jesse, I may look like I'm not wearing any clothes because my shirt's off,

but just, I am wearing my jeans. That's how I like to do it. No wonder the water in there has such a pronounced blue tint. Shirts off, jeans and tube socks. That's how I hot tub. That sounds nice.

That sounds enjoyable. Well, why aren't you getting, why aren't you getting right in with me? That's okay, John. I'm going to back slowly away from you. But while I do, I'm going to mention we've got some live shows coming up. Hang on, Jesse. I have to say something to the listeners. Yeah.

We're about to do some plugs for some shows. Yeah. Now, look, this is part of the business of listening to podcasts. We usually put the plugs at the end so you can turn it off without listening to them but i want you to listen and here's the thing here's a tease when we're done with these plugs you're going to hear a surprise extra ruling with regard to josh and courtney they're not even around anymore but i'm going to lay down some more law on them and you're going to be it's going to be legendary in, in the court of judge John Hodgman. So listen up to these plugs and then stay tuned for the reversal. Oh, let's go.

Okay. Uh, we're going to be at SF sketch fest in San Francisco, January 13th, Friday the 13th at the current theater. Uh, I'm also bringing Jordan, Jesse go to San Francisco. That's self same weekend. It's going to be a great weekend to be at SF Sketch Fest, the best comedy festival in the world. You can find more information at MaximumFun.org. We are also going to be part of, speaking of great comedy festivals, very,

very fun day in Chicago. Maximum Fun is putting this on February 11th, Saturday. It is 12 hours of comedy with one ticket. The Flophouse, Stop Podcasting Yourself, Jordan Jesse Go, Tights and Fights, and more. More information at MaximumFun.org slash VeryVeryFunDay. And tickets are selling out. We also have tickets on sale right now for MaxFunCon and MaxFunCon East. You can go to MaxFunCon.com for more information on that um and john you're traveling around the country right now uh yep i'm i just put some new live dates up on my tour page john hodgman.com slash tour you can find out about my getting tickets free tickets to go see my taping of at midnight on january 16th i'm touring with the Boston Pops, presenting my new narration

for Benjamin Britten's A Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra. So take a listen to that, long hairs. That'll be February 1 through 6. I'm going to be meeting our friend and expert witness John Darnielle in Manhattan to talk about his amazing new book,

Universal Harvester. That's coming up on February 7th. And of course, you can also get tickets for the Sketch Fest Live Judge John Hodgman, and links to all of the great Sketch Fest shows, including Jordan Jesse Go at Sketch Fest and other shows that I'm doing. And also tickets for Very, Very Fun Day.

Now listen, we need cases for our live San Francisco show and for our Very, Very Fun Day Chicago show. So as always, if you have a case to submit, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. And if you'd like to be considered to have your case heard live on stage in San Francisco or Chicago, by all means say so.

If we choose your case to hear live on stage, you get free tickets. If you already bought tickets, I'll give you a hug. Unless, you know, after you give me affirmative consent. And if you don't have swim trunks, I'll give you a pair of mine.

Now, before we go to the credits, let me say this. I've been reexamining this evidence. This is highly irregular, but I think we all agree. This is a highly irregular Junction Hodgman case. Yeah.

I reexamined the evidence. I can't rule against this guy by my laws, but I have looked at the two different patio settings again, and I'm sorry, Josh is wrong. That's a weird place. That enclosed hot tub porch off the bathroom is too claustrophobic, and I'm afraid it's just going to burn their whole house down. So I am reversing, without him even here, like an elector in the electoral college.

I am resisting the mad whim of an unfettered populace and restoring sanity to the process, at least in this little thing. He has to build a hot tub out on the deck in the backyard where Courtney wanted it. So I hope you're listening, Josh. That's what you get for being a Ferris Bueller in my courtroom. I'm going to be better next time.

Thanks to Chris Kalofarski at the PRX Podcast Garage for helping us record this week's program. Hey, good looking out, PRX. How about a shout out to my buddy Roman Mars running Radiotopia over there and hosting the great show 99% Invisible and all the other great shows there at Radiotopia, but mostly Roman.

Shout out. You can follow us on social media at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman, as well as liking Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, joining the Maximum Fun group on Facebook and joining us on Reddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com. Who named this week's episode? This week's episode was named by Ann Mandola Jones, or Mandola Jones, or just Ann Jones. Maybe we'll just leave it at that so that people don't start Googling her and making prank phone calls. Oh, Ann Mandola Jones sounds like a great detective name.

Yeah, that's true. You can name future episodes of Judge John Hodgman if you follow us on Facebook and on Twitter. And again, if you've got a case for us, big or small, we take a look at them all. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Thanks to our wonderful

producer Jennifer Marmer. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. MaximumFun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.