Judge John Hodgman - Gas, Grass or Justice

Episode Date: March 27, 2013

Ruthie brings the case against her boyfriend Chris. Chris promised to get his driver's license years ago, but he's still in the passenger's seat.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, gas, grass, or justice. Nobody rides for free. Ruthie brings the case against her partner, Chris. She says he pledged to get a driver's license years ago, but he hasn't fulfilled his promise. Chris says he's on track to get the license, but he's been slowed down by difficulties with driving practice. to get the license, but he's been slowed down by difficulties with driving practice. Should Chris be held to a strict timeline to acquire the license? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Now, Chris and Ruthie, I want you to take a good look here at my cup of Malort brand Wormwood flavored liquor from Chicago. Now, I love my Malort brand Wormwood flavored liquor from Chicago. It's probably the only thing I cherish on this godforsaken mud ball called Earth. What I'm trying to say, Chris and Ruthie, is that most internet judges rely on this book of laws, but I don't believe in that shit.

What I do believe in is my cup of Malort brand Wormwood flavored liquor from Chicago. Now this Malort is flavored with Wormwood. It is very strong. It's for two-fisted drinkers. It says on the label. And if it falls on me, it'll probably burn a hole through my leg, right? Like alien blood burning right through the deck of the Nostromo,

right? Right? Speak up, Chris and Ruthie, right? Right. Nobody likes to get a hole burned through their leg do they right chris and ruthie no no so it's simple you burn a hole through my leg with this acid liquor you fail you don't you pass jesse swear them in please stand and raise your right hands do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes. Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he hasn't driven since the mid-70s and is conveyed everywhere by a chauffeur? And when I say by a chauffeur, I mean in one of those

carriages like in Central Park? Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Kristen Ruthie, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you name the culture that I was referencing, the piece of culture that I was referencing as I entered the courtroom? Chris, do you know? I can't say that I do. Ruthie? No.

May I turn to special guest expert witness Paul F. Tompkins? Do you recognize the piece of culture that I was paraphrasing? No, I don't. All right. I'm not surprised that none of you, or at least you, Chris, and you, until recently, Paul, are not familiar with this. It was the film License to Drive. Oh. It seemed like a gimme.

That's a trick. I recognized it as Corey-like, but I couldn't put a further finger on it. It was the film License to Drive, script written by Neil Tolkien. And obviously I made some changes to the words. 1988. If it pleased the court, please. Oh, it does. Please.

Did you quote that out of your own familiarity with the film License to Drive? Was that something you researched, especially for this episode of the podcast? Do you want to know something, Paul? In a sense, the answer is yes, from my own familiarity. What sense would that be, Your Honor? Well, when I was trying to think of something to say, I had two thoughts that filtered into my mind from when I worked in the video store in New Haven, Connecticut from the years 1991 to 1993.

And one was, I could see if there was something from License to Drive, but that's sort of on the nose. Or, I wonder if I could remember what the movie, well, no, here's what I thought. I could see if there was something from License to Drive, but that's on the nose, and i know i've never seen that movie i said with full confidence believing that i have power over my own recollection and two i thought well another thing would be there was some movie that had a monologue by a driver's by a driving instruction about how if his cup of coffee falls into his lap the person fails that would be good to quote but there's no way i'm going to be able to find that

particular monologue on the internet so i might as well go to license to drive and just pick out the hack thing there that no one will remember because it's a terrible movie and what i realized was that monologue comes from that movie. So I must have seen it at some point, which means at some point during my tenure working in the video store, I made a decision to put that movie on. And that's very terrifying

to me because I know I didn't watch all of the movies in that video store, so why would I have ever gotten to License to Drive? But Paul, I have asked you to be an expert witness in this case because this case

revolves around a gentleman, in this case Chris, is not getting a driver's license to date. And how old are you now, Chris? 30. Right. You're 30 years old. You've never had a driver's license to date. And how old are you now, Chris? 30. Right. You're 30 years old.

You've never had a driver's license, correct? That's right. You didn't have one but lose it because you ran over a bunch of kids or something? No. No, not yet. And Paul, you only recently in your life got, as an adult, you also got a driver's license, rather late in the game,

in the traditional driver's license-getting game. Before i answer your question i would like to state that uh i assumed i was here under false pretenses and that there was a surprise party waiting for me that is out of the way um yes that is correct i uh got my driver's license at the age of 42 42 years old and so i will be relying on you to listen to Chris and Ruthie's testimony today and where possible, add insight into the mindset of a man like Chris, who has not gotten his driver's license, even though he promised. I will bring all the benefits of my experience to bear to the best of my ability. All right.

Thank you. Now, Ruthie, you bring this case against Chris. And the reason that you do is that he's lazy. What's the problem? Well, he told me in April of 2011 that he would get his driver's license. And he, you know, I don't like to push him to do things. And I thought, you know, in his own time, and I don't want to be a nag or anything. So I think in October or November, we were having a conversation about traveling. And he said something that like greatly angered me.

And it made me think about, me think about pursuing litigation against him. And that statement was? Well, basically he said that he would not want to go anywhere that he has to drive to. And that's angered you because? Because it's patently false. And he's gone plenty of places that, that he has to drive to. Except he isn't, he isn't driving. He's getting other people to drive him there, including. Exactly.

Let me back up just a little bit. You, you two, uh, you two are a couple. Yes. How long have you been a couple? About three years. I obviously, Chris, you are the designated couple archivist because you jumped right in to answer these questions. Even though I was talking to Ruthie, you've been, you are the designated couple archivist because you jumped right in to answer these questions, even though I was talking to Ruthie. You've been a couple for three years. Does that conform to your understanding of the situation, Ruthie, three years?

Pretty much. Okay. And do you live together? Do you cohabitate? Not yet. I mean, we live together, but then I moved to go to graduate school. So where do you live now, Ruthie? In Lafayette, Indiana.

In Lafayette, Indiana, a town known for its incredible public transportation system. Its buses, its streetcars, its romantic trolleys. A guy doesn't need to drive around Lafayette. I was just reading about Lafayette, Indiana in Monocle Magazine. Sure. I'm sure it was a profile of their amazing monorail system. It was. And their

people movers and their conveyor belt sidewalks. And they have those bus stations that are like subway stations, but for buses like they have in South America and all the design people want to tell you about. Yeah, exactly. But Chris, do you live there in Lafayette, the, the, the dream city of tomorrow where no, no, where, where segways are handed out on every street corner? You live there as well? No. Okay. So you moved to Lafayette to go to graduate school?

Yes. In what subject, may I ask? Plant sciences. Forgive me. I will. Come on, Paul. Forgive me. I am not familiar with that field of study, and I've never heard those words put together and expressed that way before.

There was something a little resigned about, like, I'm going to say these words and I know you're going to laugh. Plant sciences. It sounds a little made up. What do you think agriculture is? I think it's agriculture.

Yeah, and it uses plant science to improve agriculture. Agriculture means plant science. You wouldn't go to college, I think what Paul is saying is you wouldn't go to college for metal science, for example. Oh, yes, I'm

studying to be a doctor, so I have to go to guts-fixing school. Paul or Jesse, when Ruthie said plant sciences, did either one of you picture as I did a bunch of plants in lab coats? My mind immediately went to Alec Holland, the swamp thing. Sure, of course. The greatest plant scientist. Surely you have a framed portrait of him somewhere.

A scientist who is also a plant. Okay, Ruthie, so you went to Lafayette's famous school of plant sciences and leaving Chris behind in where? Chris, where do you live? Baltimore. Baltimore, another city with its very, very famous public transportation system. That's right. That's right. The famous, they call it the gondola city because there's a gondola on every street corner that will take you to wherever you need to go.

And you can get one of those crab sleds, right? Mm-hmm. People know all of this stuff. They've seen the wire. Right. The scuttling crab sleds of Baltimore. Well, Baltimore, I mean, I guess

it's a major city. You live downtown. And you can take cabs wherever you need to go and that sort of thing. Sure, yeah, exactly. You're a wealthy drug dealer and you have a guy who drives you around in an Escalade. Yes. That's more like it. And now your girlfriend, Ruthie, has moved to Lafayette and there is no way for you to get to her because you never learned to drive. Before I ask you to defend this position, let me ask you, why did you never get a driver's

license when you were a child? I presume you are not 16 years old? No, you're 30. We already established that. So why did you not get a driver's license at the time when most people do get driver's licenses? I guess I just didn't feel like it. Thank you very much for taking the effort to press go on Skype today, because obviously you're someone who doesn't get pressured into doing anything. Well, at least part of it was that the driving instruction that they offered through my high school. Right.

Well, I was late almost every day to high school. Right. And so I had to go to detention almost every day. So there was really no way that I could make the driving lessons in high school. Yeah, because you were late to high school every day because you were too busy sitting at home at your Scrivener's desk saying, I would prefer not to? Yes, that's right. Where did you go to high school? I went to Baltimore Polytechnic Institute And how did you get to high school?

I took the bus, like most of my fellow students You took the special late bus? Was there a second bus for students who wished to be late So they could skip driver's ed? Actually, in a way, there was. Because the bus schedule basically was, the bus only came like every, I don't know, 30 minutes or so. It's a city bus. Oh, I thought it was a school bus.

No. Oh, you took the city bus. It was the MTA bus. You took public transportation and you realized that because that worked out so well for you, you would never get a driver's license. So basically you're just saying... Not never, just not at that time. So your answer to you didn't get a driver's license in high school,

the reason that you didn't get a driver's license in high school is that they started the class too early, man. That was a good impression of 16-year-old Chris. I think it's a pretty good impression of 30-year-old Chris. What is your profession if you deign to have one in Charm City? I actually work in Washington, D.C. I'm a web, you know, I maintain the website of my organization. Which I presume is the Illuminati because you refused to mention it on my podcast. Well, it's called the National Academy of Science.

Oh, National Academy of Plant Science or just regular science? Dirt science by any chance? Shiny gem science? They have plant science as well. ruthie used to work there um and is that how you guys met it is working working in a lab for ala collins the swamp thing uh okay so you so how do you get how do you get to work? You take the metro, the famous carpeted subways of Washington, D.C.? No, I take the MARC train. It's a commuter train between Baltimore and D.C. You know, its real name is Samuel Clemens. Oh, you beat me to it.

I was considering it. I was considering it. Oh, really? Were you going to say this or not? Yeah, you were considering to rule it out because it was too... I hesitated and was lost. It was too McSweeney's twee. I snooze and thus I lose. I can't believe I got there before you did, Paul. I figured you actually had to have fallen asleep.

Let that be a lesson to all. So, I didn't get my driver's license until I was 19. But you made a promise, did you not? What moved you to make this promise in 2011? I do not recall this specific date. Perhaps

Ruthie can elaborate. Ruthie? I do not deny that it happened, I just don't remember. When your docket came across my judge's bench, you indicated that a promise was made in 2011 that Chris was going, said he would get his driver's license

and actively pursue getting a driver's license. Is that so? And what were the circumstances of that promise being made? Well, I had a seizure in april of 2011 and yes it was very unpleasant and so then i couldn't drive for a year was it a plant experiment gone awry that caused it i only wish that might that sounds like it could have possibly been fun but no it was a bunch of different things. How are you feeling now?

Better so far. Okay. So you had a seizure, I hope not while driving. No, no, no. Thankfully not. Right. And Chris, and were you living together at that time in Baltimore? No.

But you guys were together at that time? Yes. And I lived in Washington, D.C, and I lived in Washington, D.C. And you lived in Washington, D.C., you were together, and Chris turned to you as you guys went out on a nice date on the city bus and said, you know what, what did he say? Yeah, and you know, I'll get my driver's license or something like that. But Chris, you deny ever having made such a promise. I don't deny it. I just don't remember it.

I suspect that it was more of a declaration than a promise, but. Sure. And by declaration, meaning the words that you came out of your mouth had no bearing on whatsoever on the, on the behavior that was going to fall. Well, it didn't, it didn Well, it didn't start with, I hereby promise, Ruthie, that I shall perform this task. It was a declaration in the sense of,

oh, you know what? Tomorrow I'm not going to be late for school and go to detention. Yeah, there you go. You've been a lazy deadbeat all your life. Isn't that right, Chris? Don't wait for the translation. Answer the question.

Have you been a lazy deadbeat all your life? I think most people would say that. How do you get around when you need a ride? Do you get Ruthie to drive you around? Sometimes. Occasionally. Ruthie, what kind of car do you drive? A Honda Civic.

That's very responsible. It sounds like just like you. It sounds like someone who got their act together and took driver's ed. My father made me get up at 5.30 in the morning. Oh, right. Yeah, well, you know, I blame Chris's parents. Whether or not you made this promise,

whether or not you call it a promise, or whether you call it just affirmative mouth noises that mean nothing. Did you then take steps to get your learner's permit? Well, I had had my learner's permit already. Oh, okay. When did you get that? I've had it for a while.

I would guess so. You're 30 years old and most people get it when they're 16. But can you give me an age between 16 and 30? Probably 16. I'm not sure that's still valid. Well, I've gotten it renewed a couple of times since then. You went through the process of getting the learner's permit renewed. How many times would you say you got it renewed?

Six. Camden Yards made ballpark it. Probably about six. You hear that, Paul? I made a sports reference. Pretty good. Oh, that's what that was. Yeah.

A Baltimore sports reference. A Baltimore ball sports reference. What is required to acquire your learner's permit? What do you have to do? You just have to take a, um, a knowledge test and division test and prove that you are who you say you are to the satisfaction of the MBA ladies. Did you just say a division test? No, a vision test. I also heard division test. Excellent. And that's it.

So by now, you pretty much have the driver's manual memorized. Well, I only had to take the test really once. But you keep getting the learner's permit renewed? What do you have to do to get it renewed? Oh, you just go down there and give them the old one and they print you off a new one. You have to say something like, still learning. No. I'm going to finish this test, but right now I'm just making a really good outline.

Paul, you're someone who got your driver's license rather late in life compared to other humans. Yes, compared to most humans. And is there anything in what Chris is saying to you that you sympathize with? license rather late in life compared to other humans. Yes, compared to most humans. And can you, is there anything in what Chris is saying to you that you sympathize with? Can you explain why someone would delay this? My explanation for why I did may be different from the explanation that Chris is presenting. I would ask Chris this question. Is there any part of this delay that is fear-based? I don't think so. Don't ask me the questions. I'll allow it. I grew up in Philadelphia where it was pretty easy to get around without a car.

Then I moved to Los Angeles where it is impossible to get around without a car. And it caused me great stress, anxiety, and shame for more than a decade. And then I lived in New York City for a year where I was on a level playing field with everyone else using subway cabs and everything. And there was no shame or self-loathing. Came back to Los Angeles and realized that I was ready now to embrace the independence that driving gave me. And I got past the fear in that way. And what I did was I took professional driving lessons and told myself, I will take these lessons until I feel comfortable going for my license. And that's what I did. The idea... How long did that take? About 15 years? Oh, if only. If only I'd started this process that long ago. I think I took around, I did like 12 sessions of driving lessons, which are three hours each, and then felt sufficiently comfortable to go for the driving test.

I will say that the idea that you just don't feel like it is not something that I can relate to. And I certainly have my own ideas about that. You know, Judge Hodgman, I didn't learn to drive until I was in my 20s, albeit my early 20s. And it was because I just didn't feel like it. So what made the change for you, Jesse? I was living in Santa Cruz, California, where I was attending university, the University of California at Santa Cruz. And I wanted a way to leave Santa Cruz without having to take a Greyhound bus. And also the other issue was, you know, I grew up in San Francisco where it was sort of not an important thing. And I didn't have the money to pay for the extra insurance on my parents' cars if I had gotten my license.

And by the time I was in college, I had a job. So it was no longer financially prohibitive. And I also took professional lessons. And I didn't have a lot of fear issues. So I only had to take a couple. And I remember thinking, oh, my God, driving is so easy. Why didn't I learn to drive a long time ago? All you do is press the go button or the stop button and turn this wheel to change directions.

I think those are pedals, actually. I'm glad that we had a chance. Certainly the money was a part of it for me as well, I will say. Although that only comes up just now. Sure. Thank you. I will say this as well. I had a similar experience to Jesse's in that once I started doing it, I could not believe that I hadn't been doing it before. The relative ease of it and the freedom that it granted me were and still, because I'm still

relatively new to it, still exhilarating to me. Paul and Jesse, thank you very much for sharing your stories. I'm glad we had a time to share here in the conversation pit. Now Chris, I hope that the courtroom sketch artist was able to capture the single tear rolling down my cheek as I told my story.

I think they put you down for five tears for whatever reason. The sketch artist was able to capture the single tear rolling down my cheek as I told my story. I think they put you down for five tears for whatever reason. The sketch artist loves tears. I've also murdered four people. Those are tattoos. Four of them are tattoos. One of them is a white black bull tattoo. that are honest and bracing. Can you make a coherent argument for your own delay that sounds as human and real as Jesse and Paul's so that you don't sound like a sociopath

who just parrots what they say in order to seem like another human? Probably not. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. I, uh, I mean, you know,

to me, I, I, I, I, I think maybe I'm wrong that the issue, uh, at the court is not whether or not I should get my driver's license,

which I fully agree that I should. You did? Just, uh, yes. Okay. So why have you not gotten your driver's license? Is it just that you haven't felt like dealing with it?

You never had to, you never really had to deal with it because you live in Baltimore, the city that reads, and Washington, D.C., the District of Columbia? Partly it is yes, that I never really had to.

Certainly also a part of it is that... By the way, I love that chime indicating a personal insight. Is that I, unlike you guys, it does not come naturally to me at all. In fact, it sort of requires many of the skills that I'm particularly bad at.

May I stop you right there? Sure. It doesn't come naturally to anybody. It's an extremely unnatural thing to do. Well, characters on the Transformers, it comes naturally to them. Well, yeah, they're not here, are they? No, point taken. You really should have called Optimus Prime. But it's a thing that you learn to do and that you have to practice at in order to get better at. Certainly. And I just mean that I don't find it particularly fun or freeing. May I ask you this question? Have you ever found learning to be fun to do?

I'll answer for you. No. It's never fun. Learning is not fun. Having learned is frequently awesome. But you speak to the most important point. If I were to ask you if it were up to you

and you had no Ruthie in your life, would you never get a driver's license? I suspect that I would get one eventually. Eventually, sure. 42, 44, 60, 65, right. If there was another girl that came along that really wanted me to do it. Do you have a compelling...

Whoa! I wonder if it would be done in a more prompt fashion for her. What qualities would qualify the different girl I wonder if it would be done in a more prompt fashion for her. What qualities would qualify the different girl to be worth getting a driver's license for that your current girlfriend, who's on the line right now, does not satisfy? Well, that really wasn't the question. That's what you said, but that was your answer. I will allow the very unorthodox posing of a direct question by the bailiff.

Let the record state that the bailiff posed a question because he is aghast. It is so noted. The question was that if Ruthie wasn't around and if there was no such thing as Ruthie, then maybe there would be someone else who would encourage me to do this. Guys, this is getting deep. This is getting deep. This is getting existential now. There were no such thing as Ruthie. But there is a Ruthie. Ruthie has had a seizure. Ruthie, do you feel unsafe driving now because of your seizure? I mean, it makes me nervous, but I am on medication, and I waited the 12

months. May I ask Chris two quick questions, please? Sure. Number one, do you find the process of learning to drive a frustrating experience? I wouldn't say that it's frustrating, but it's unpleasant, as we stipulated to previously. Why is it unpleasant again? I'm sorry. Well, it sort of requires of me skills that I've always been bad at. Hand-eye coordination, focusing for more than a few minutes at a time on the task at hand, that kind of thing. Do you play video games? No.

Are you automotively dyslexic? That's possible. I haven't been diagnosed. And let me ask you this, Chris, have you ever driven a car all by yourself where you were the only person in the vehicle? No. That would be illegal, wouldn't it? Without a licensed driver, you're driving.

It would be illegal, but that is the freedom. That's where the feeling of freedom really comes in because you don't have somebody looking over your shoulder. You don't have somebody telling you what to do. You can go anywhere you like in that car. It's all up to you. You're in complete control. Paul, I appreciate your trying to – I think you're projecting upon Chris your own well-deserved feeling of personal triumph for having overcome. Jess, would you agree? Would you agree?

I would agree. I also project that onto him. And it might be for you, Your Honor, it might be that it's been longer for you than it has for Jesse or myself since you have learned to drive as you started at a younger age than we did. And so perhaps you forget what it was like to be in command of the car all by yourself for the first time. I also learned to drive in part out of love because my now wife, then girlfriend, didn't live in Santa Cruz. And having the option of driving was very important because it allowed me to visit her. Well, no, it may be that I... no, I have a memory of driving for the

first time and I still get excited every time I get into a car, especially if I get into a car by myself, because then I get to listen to my podcast real loud. But saying that to Chris, a person who has avoided driving a car for a long time is like trying to trying to describe an alternate dimension uh featuring colors that he can't see yet indeed i was just i was just responding i take your point but i was responding to his uh his statement that it is um uh he did not feel that sense of freedom and i'm and saying here's why. It will come eventually. Yes. It is sort of like an exercise regimen where the first three months of running on a treadmill like an animal, you feel terrible and you hate it. And then something will happen, will click in, and suddenly you are able to run like an animal on a treadmill and it feels great you feel like

the bionic man uh so so i i don't know if if if chris could understand in his obvious obviously lazy brain the feeling that he would eventually have once he overcomes this milestone, then he would do it. But he can't. He can't understand until it happens. So there has to be an outside compulsion to do it that has to overcome whatever's preventing him from doing it. At this point, I'm still a little unsure of what's really preventing you from doing it, Chris, other than you don't feel like it and you don't really have to, but you do really have to, and there is evidence to suggest that you do feel like it because you've been renewing this learner's permit over and over and over again.

Are you going to join Ruthie and Lafayette? I am. A dear old plant science you? You are. Yes, that is my deadline for acquiring the driver's license. Right. And if I were to ask you, when are you going to join her? You would say, sometime in the future, when I get around to it. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Is that correct? Do you have a date certain for joining Ruthie and Lafayette? I have an unofficial deadline of May. An unofficial deadline of this May. I wonder how binding that is. Well, it's related to my current lease. But it is unofficial. You haven't notified the appropriate authorities.

No, not yet. And is there any reason that I, that this court should not order you to get your driver's license and drive? And, and before you go to Lafayette, I'm not going to order you to drive to Lafayette because he'd be a menace to everyone around you. Lafayette, however, I think would be a perfect place to be able to get to know driving as a licensed driver a little bit better because it isn't probably, probably isn't as much traffic as there is in Baltimore and D.C., right? I would think not. All right. You entered some evidence. Did you not, Chris? I think so, yeah. Would you like me to consider this evidence? Sure. Do you have any

belief that it's going to aid your case in any way? No. I had little hope coming into this that it would be ruled in my favor. You submitted two text message strings that you believe display what exactly? What does this demonstrate? Setting up a driving lesson. Setting up a driving lesson? Setting up a driving lesson? Two driving lessons, in fact. With whom? With my friend Mark. Oh, Mark.

This is your amateur driving instructor, Mark? Yes. Paul, do you have these text strings? Yes, I do, John. All right. For the benefit of the listeners, I'm going to work. Paul and I will do a dramatic reenactment of your texts with your friend and amateur driving instructor,

Mark. Paul, in these text strings, uh, which person are you? Are you the gray, the gray, uh,

text balloons or the green text balloons? I will be the gray text balloons. And therefore you'll be playing Chris. Chris, is that correct? Do I have this correct? Alright, good. So I will be the green. I will play Mark. The top of my first text is cut off, so I'll just finish it off.

Poker this weekend or next? Also, what are you doing Thursday? Want to do a driving lesson? I was actually thinking next week, like the 9th. This Saturday is Lewis's paintball thing. Might go. Thursday could work for driving.

Okay. Oh, yeah. Good. Next day. Still on for tomorrow? Yes. That seemed like it worked out pretty painlessly, Chris. Why is this demonstrating

how hard it is to set up a lesson? Because of Lewis's paintball thing? And did you go? Did you go? To Lewis's paintball? No. Let me guess. Yeah, you didn't get around to it, did you?

So somehow you didn't make it. Somehow you didn't make it. Kind of woke up that day. I went to the after party. You have, sure. You were late. You were late. You were late.

On to the next text string. I will again be Mark. Paul, you be Chris. Tomorrow or wed would be good days for driving practice for me if it works for you. Definitely where I was looking too. I was like, the tongue is not that weird and they never define

height, so it must be somewhere else. Thinking Wednesday if it's all the same to you. Well, then it just goes on to say, yep, that is fine with me. Figure else. Thinking Wednesday, if it's all the same to you. Well, then it just goes on to say, yep, that is fine with me. Figure I'll stay there again if that's okay. But what is going on here? I was like, the tongue is not that

weird, and they never define Hive, so it must be somewhere else. A different conversation. Right, this is because of your short attention span that prevents you from mastering the simple motor skills, literal and figurative, that even the dumbest humans in America can do. That's right. Maybe you can't pay attention to a single conversation in a single time. What is the tongue and what is Hithe? I just need to know.

I just need to know. Well, we were having a discussion about a particular passage in Lord of the Rings. Oh, God. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. A word that we couldn't remember. And that is where Mark has mentioned that the word that we couldn't remember was neither tongue or hide. Yeah, those words have nothing to do with one another, but we'll get to the bottom of that in another podcast.

Thank you very much. So it sounds like you are willing to be steamrollered by me and Ruthie, and I have no doubt that if I were to order you to get your driver's license and find in Ruthie's favor that you would say, okay. Can I say something here? Of course. I would just like to point out that all of these text messages came only after I filed charges. If it weren't for that, not even that amount of driving practice would have taken place. Because Chris obviously needs an external stimulus in order to actually do a thing that he says he's going to do because he has no self-discipline. Right. And I think this same friend submitted evidence on my behalf as well, affirming what I just told you. I have no doubt that Mark, I would never question the testimony of an avowed Lord of the Rings textual scholar.

I would never question the testimony of an avowed Lord of the Rings textual scholar. So, Chris, if by some, you've made no case for yourself, and I'm not even sure what it is you want. So, is there something that you want other than to get a driver's license? Do you not want to get a driver's license? Do you not want to get a driver's license? Are you trying to convince me that you shouldn't have to, that it's too hard to do what even a 16-year-old, in some states 15-and-a-half-year-old, may do? I mean, I've offered, it was in fact Ruthie that insisted on going to court. I offered to settle out of court, but I guess my assurances were not convincing. Yeah, I wonder why. I wonder why if you say to someone that you're going to do something, like get a driver's license or go to a crazy cool paintball party, they might come under the impression that you maybe aren't good

for you. Maybe your word isn't good enough. Well, I've made some progress towards, I did go to driving school, which is more than I had done for anyone else who would ask me to get my driver's license. How many people have asked you? Your parents, obviously. What's that? A few.

A few, yeah. Right. So what you're saying is that you have a history of being asked to get a driver's license and not doing it. That's right. asked to get a driver's license and not doing it. So again, what possible reason would I or Ruthie or Paul or Jesse or the podcast listening or Gandalf or Hithe or the tongue have to take you at your word, even if I were to order you and you were to say yes? I can answer the question for you. Zero reason.

But you do not have a case that you should not get your driver's license, right? If I were to find in your favor, what would be the outcome that you would desire? Everyone just get off my back? I guess so, yeah. Again, I've I did not really have much hope or desire to win the case. Obviously, I find in favor, without even going to chambers, a man refuses to defend himself or make a case for himself. I have no choice, but you have thrown yourself on the mercy of the court, and I am mercy-less, so I find in favor of the complainant, Ruthie.

But in terms of what I can do in order to compel you at last to do what needs to be done is something that does require some consideration. So I am going to scoot my jazzy over to my chambers and putter about in a circle until I come up with a solution. I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ruth B., I have to ask you, is your boyfriend of three years always this contemptuous of your needs and desires? No, no, not at all. It's just this particular issue. So what's the difference, Chris?

I feel that I've done pretty good so far. I think it's a point of pride for him to not have his driver's license in a way. it's a point of pride for him to not have his driver's license in a way. You know, like he thinks he's so counterculture to have, you know, not gotten it. Chris, you know that once you have your driver's license, you are not thereby compelled to not travel by other means. I take the subway or my bicycle to work sometimes, despite the fact that I own a car. I'm not against getting it. I'm happy to get it for Ruthie. Hold on a second.

Everything you said so far indicates that that is not true at all. This is the whole point of what we're talking about. Frankly, Chris, you seem like a morally bankrupt. It's not mine to judge, but I have just judged you. You're like Dexter without the voiceover. Ruthie, what do you, what do you think is going to be the outcome here? I obviously couldn't think of any way to get this done. So I'm clueless.

Chris, how about you? Sorry. Yeah, that's all you can say. I agree. Wait, what? Take a break, and we'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's ruling. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join.

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listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum

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Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom well i am someone who got his driver's license when he was 19 years old for the same reason that jesse put off getting his driver's license i lived in a city uh with good public transportation it really wasn't necessary to be able to drive there weren't a lot of places i need to go to drive uh and indeed once i turned 19 i was also living in a place where i could bike

or walk most places but uh i i appreciated that it was something that needed to get done because if it didn't, it was something I could put off forever and forever until maybe I was 30 or 42 or older and older. And the longer I waited, the harder it would be, both because of my increasing physical infirmity, because we were all mortal and we're all falling apart. because of my increasing physical infirmity, because we were all mortal and we're all falling apart, but also because of the intense pressure, the feeling that there was an intense pressure to do it and not wanting to deal with that pressure, and it would become more and more embarrassing. And I'm very glad that I forced myself to go ahead and do it,

and despite the fact that Paul F. Tompkins accuses me of having amnesia, I do remember the incredible charge that a young man gets the moment he first sits behind the wheel of a Subaru Loya, the hot rod of Brookline, Massachusetts. And and and and punch that punch that baby up to 35 miles per hour buzz past Coolidgeidge Corner with car talk on the radio. There's nothing like it. And so, you know, this is, it is not merely part of being a member of society. You know, there have been people who have resisted getting their driver's license or resisting, on this podcast, resisting learning how to drive a manual, which I, which I think is something everyone should be able to do because what if apocalypse comes and all automatic transmission ceased to work, but also it is, but for the same reason that it is an issue of safety, you know, you may need to drive someone who needs to be somewhere quickly. You may need to drive yourself somewhere in order to take care of someone who needs your help. Even if you do not

wish to drive in the society, it is a skill that is invaluable to have. And it marks you as a, in a sense, as an adult. It is a rite of passage that I think we avoid, not merely because it is inconvenient and a pain in the neck to get to driver's ed, but also because it has that connotation of adultness, which some of us feel a little bit uncomfortable with, some of which may be listening to me speak right now named Chris. More even to the point, though, you have a girlfriend who I presume you care about, a budding plant scientist who has had a seizure. And that is a terrifying thing to have happen and can obviously require immediate help should it happen again.

And maybe it's someone who needs to be very wary about how much she drives. And you have someone who represents that you have made a promise to learn to drive, that you choose to say that you have forgotten, but is nonetheless a statement that you made. to say that you have forgotten, but is nonetheless a statement that you made. And all of this obviously adds up to a compelling reason for you to finally get on the early bus and learn to drive. I don't even think that you make no counterclaim to that. You make no counterclaim to that. The question is that as you are a serial procrastinator, how do you actually get Chris to learn to drive? I would say that the harsh way would be to say, Chris, you have until May to get your driver's license, and then you may drive to Lafayette and be with me.

And if you are unable to drive yourself to Lafayette, please do not come. I think that that is, I do not tend to believe in ultimatums in relationships because they're often very cruel. and do what he has so far failed to do and set out several times to do but failed would be welcome at this time in your relationship. Moreover, if he fails to do it yet again, I would consider it an equally ominous sign that he will never do what he sets out to do. It's harsh stuff, Chris.

I hear you chuckling there. I'm serious. You know, people break up, or people live in relationships, live in different places, and lay down life markers for each other. And the ones who do what they say they're going to do, that tends to be a relationship that's happy. The ones that don't do what they say they're going to do while they're apart tend to be the relationships that are unhappy. And Ruthie, you're undergoing a very serious course in plant science.

Sorry. And I think you deserve to know whether or not Chris is going to be able to meet you not halfway, but 100% all the way in Lafayette under his own power and want to be there with you license in hand. Ruthie, are you willing to make such an ultimatum to Chris at this time? I don't feel that I can do that. I'm not going to order you to do it, but I do consider this to be as serious an issue

that someone who is crueler than you and less forgiving than you might reasonably make in this sort of situation. So Chris, how else can we possibly motivate you to actually do what you say you are going to do? I order you to get your driver's license by May, I order you to get your driver's license by May. And I order you before then to send to me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org a photocopy of your driver's license. Also, I would like a photocopy of the front and back of the credit card you use the most. And your social security number. For different reasons.

And if you do not do so. You will be shamed publicly. In front of a podcast audience. Of many thousands. And all will know. Your name. In fact. To make this really clear. What's going to happen is by the end of the day today, you are going to send me a photocopy or a picture and email me a picture of your current learner's permit. I will hold it in secrecy until I receive a photocopy of your driver's license. until I receive a photocopy of your driver's license.

And if I do not get that photocopy of the driver's license, I will black out your last name and address. I don't want anyone to hunt you down. That's kind. But we will post your learner's permit and repost this podcast, and we will say, he didn't do it, everybody. How does that sound? Yes. Can we specify, is this by the end of May or the beginning?

I'll leave it up to you. What date works best for you? I feel like I should be nice, but then, you know, make it the end. I do not feel. I think I shouldn't. Yeah, I think you have already been very nice. Why don't we split the difference and say 15 May 2013.

That's fair. I will not order you to learn to drive a manual transmission, though all people should be able to do that. I think baby steps is fine. Automatic transmission is fine. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ruthie, how are you feeling about this decision? Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ruthie, how are you feeling about this decision? Well, you know, I'm not going to be confident until I see that he has gotten his license. Just dump him. This guy's dragging you down. Get a new boyfriend at the National Academy of what is it? Graduate school. No, he's he's he's too good. I mean, most things it's fine that he's this way, you know, and it's good because I'm pretty neurotic. But, you know, for this, it just needs to get done. Chris, whenever Judge Hodgman said something emotional, you giggled. You know that that's the wrong answer? I guess so see what a non-committal

answer that is how are you feeling about this decision Chris I'm perfectly fine with it I'll bet you are well I've got high hopes for you Chris thank you

I'd like to see you fulfill them. It's also possible you're a killer robot of some kind. How could a robot use Skype? Wouldn't it cause interference? Ruthie, Chris, thank you for joining us on the Jeff's Podcast. Thank you so much, guys. Good luck. Paul F. Tompkins, thank you for joining us in Chambers.

Jesse, it's my pleasure. This is lovely in here. John decorated it himself. Yeah, I put up a bunch of pictures of old Model Ts and old Awuga car horns and old street signs. And I'm going to start serving some pretty cool apps. Is that deer head wearing oversized sunglasses? That's crazy, isn't it? It really is crazy.

Because they don't do that in life. So what do you want to start with? Our slamming boneless buffalo wings? Or you just want some? Well, we do have some cases on the docket we could go at. All right, cool. Here's something from Michael. I have a dispute with my best friend's wife, Devin.

She works at the high school I attended and is responsible for asking for alumni donations during an annual fun drive. I have been called a monster by my friends for the following reasons. One, I asked Devin not to use you as in the letter U, youR as in the letters U and R, or any other shorthand internet speak when asking for gifts to an academic institution. Two, when she replied that she used shorthand to save time, I called her out on, quote, willful ignorance, unquote, of spelling convention. unquote of spelling convention. I would like an injunction. Devin must not use internet or text message shorthand in a business related email and furthermore in any personal text messages to me. Obviously, I agree with the guy who's writing in the best friends, the best friend of her husband, the best friend of Devin's husband who's writing in. I agree. Especially if you're asking people for money,

have the decency to not erode the language that we all use to communicate with each other and treat me like a grown-up and not a child. Because if you're asking someone to check out your new ukulele YouTube or whatever, you can use internet

shorthand. Of course, that's expected. But if you're asking someone for money out your new ukulele youtube or whatever you can use internet shorthand of course that's expected but if you're asking someone for money for a school that person is an adult and should be treated as one and you shouldn't be eroding the language that we all use to communicate because when you do that you're you're you're you know eventually those spellings or those abbreviations will become common usage and therefore they will be part of our living language and you know they're suddenly everyone will start saying a myriad of spelling errors instead of myriad spelling errors and it'll just be chaos but at the same time i don't believe that anyone's calling this guy a monster it's not true it in quotes, though, so it's clearly a direct quote. Oh no, it's just in all caps.

Nor do I think it's appropriate, if true, for him to be accusing her of being willfully ignorant of spelling. Like suddenly, this is the other sin of the internet, right? Which is the incredible hyperbole, the hyperbolic asymmetry of argument, where a

simple error is met with an incongruously outsized response, such as my favorite example, which involves Paul F. Tompkins. When Paul F. Tompkins and I were talking on Twitter about something, and I made an oblique and not particularly funny cultural reference

where I referred to the famous Belgian comic strip detectives tompkins and tompkins from tintin someone immediately replied to me on twitter saying it's thompson and thompson shithead did they really yes add that at the end yeah my god it really that i mean and that to me was one of those internet in a nutshell moments, because the person was obviously correct. I was making reference to Thompson and Thompson, the characters from the Belgian comic book Tintin. But there was no reason to call me a shithead. And I'm sorry to use that language here on the podcast, which I consider to be a more genteel form of human interaction than the internet itself.

So what I'm saying, dude, is take it down a thousand. Devin, start spelling things out. Next. Do you disagree with me, Paul? Jump in at any time. No, I think you're right on both counts. And I would further add both of these people can die in a fire. So ordered.

No, no, don't die in a fire, guys. Here's something from Greg. A few years ago, I attended a family reunion held at a historic hotel in Asheville, North Carolina. Beautiful Asheville. One evening, someone mentioned that the hotel had a supposedly

haunted suite located somewhere in the Old Wing. We consulted the information... I'm not surprised it in the old wing. We consulted the information. I'm not surprised it was the old wing. No one ever goes there. It could be a relatively contemporary haunting. Could be the roller blade killer or something. Fair enough.

We consulted the informational pamphlets supplied with our room and discovered that my parents were staying in the haunted suite. My mom was dismayed by this revelation. She said that the woman at the front desk had made no mention of any ghosts or hauntings and thinks that the hotel should have informed them before they checked in. I say ghosts aren't

real, so the hotel wasn't under any obligation to say anything. I think that the hotel operators were trying to have their phantasmal cake and eat it too. They flaunted the ghost story as part of their hotel's unique character and history, but then handed over the key card to the spooky suite without saying a word. For what it's worth, my parents did not report any spectral sightings during their stay, but this philosophical point has haunted me ever since.

I asked the court's opinion. Was the hotel obligated to tell my parents that they were assigned to a haunted suite? I hate to be the one to break this to you, but your parents are ghosts. They actually died 15 years ago in a mysterious hotel fire. And they're haunting the haunted suite. I hope your parents are not spectral phantasms that are wonderful, vital, healthy, old

people who are just scared of ghosts. Paul, I think this really hinges on whether or not this court will stipulate one way or the other to ghosts being real. Paul, do you believe in ghosts? I do not believe in ghosts, and do not believe in ghosts.

And consequently, I'm not afraid of none of them. This is maybe my favorite dispute that has ever been brought before this podcast. Well, I mean, it's a thorny issue because there are people who do believe in ghosts. No, I don't believe in ghosts. Yeah. And I also do not believe in ghosts no i don't believe in ghosts yeah and i also do not believe in ghosts so from this court's point of view ghosts are not real and therefore the hotel has done nothing wrong

by not alerting someone of a fictitious problem but there are people who do believe in ghosts including guess what dudes this is for reals. Including my wife. But now, let me ask this. If you're the hotel, do you then have to ask people when they check in?

Yes, okay. And would you king size or queen? Okay. And do you believe in ghosts? Well, I'll tell you something. Here's the thing. The answer is no, by the simple rule of caveat emptor. If you believe in ghosts and are afeard of getting maliced by ghosts while you sleep,

maybe you should ask about it at the front desk yourself. Maybe you shouldn't be going to a hotel that brags about being a haunted hotel. Well, now, we don't know for sure if they brag about being a – do you know this hotel in question, Judge Hodgman? No, I don't know this hotel in Asheville, North Carolina, though I'd love to go to it because Asheville is terrific. He does not say – Greg does not stipulate that the hotel warns people in advance that it's... Oh, the informational pamphlet. They make a certain amount of hay. Yes.

I'm sure it's on their website. Sure. So really, it's Greg who should have told his parents that this hotel was haunted. This is a hotel. In their pamphlet, they say they have one haunted suite. Do they have an obligation to tell the people who are setting up shop in that suite because that's what people do in hotels yeah they said they said little little shops that's right that's right the people who are who are going to stay in that suite do they have an obligation to tell them this is the haunted one

by the way and i think that the answer is no i'd say it's caveat emptor if you're staying at a hotel you have a fear of ghosts and you know that from the informational pamphlet that the ghost is haunted that the hotel has at least one haunting in it you should be able to say could it be the non-haunted one please or can you tell me but it is not on the hotel to inform you that said if the hotel does want to make hay off of the fact that it is a haunted hotel, and there are plenty that do, then it might be to their business interests to ask people before they check in, haunted or non-haunted. Because that'll freak people out.

That'll be exciting. I think they should start it by asking, do you believe in ghosts? Because I think that's a much more interesting way to get that conversation started. But that is the theater of the hospitality industry we're talking about. That is not an ethical or moral obligation that they have. No, it's not. But I would like the people checking in to wonder if the people behind the desk are high. So ordered. In this case, thank you, Paul. I actually amend my thoughts on this, and I believe

that the hotel, and indeed all hotels who have anything about being haunted in their promotional material, should ask people when they check in, do you believe in ghosts? Would you prefer a haunted or non-haunted room? And whatever they

say, just say, that's not a problem. Your room is haunted or not-haunted room and whatever they say just say that's not a problem your room is haunted or not haunted depending on their preference yes they could just say that's not oh that pamphlet's out of date the ghost the ghost moved up two floors well look i'm all i'm saying is if if you're going to be playing a carny game of pretending that your hotel has supernatural powers, don't specify in your pamphlet which one is haunted. Allow yourself to play the game and give people the feeling that maybe this is the one, maybe this isn't the one.

Yeah, guess what haunted hotels call? And Jesse and I just made you a bunch of money. I'd also like it if just every hotel asked people if they believed in ghosts when people checked in. That's why it's the Judge John Hodgman podcast, not the Judge Paul F. Tompkins podcast. You know, I also know someone else who believes in ghosts, and he told me the story about hiring a psychic to do a reading on his house, right, to see if it was haunted. How rich is this person? What's haunted. How rich is this person? What's that?

How rich is this person? He's not particularly rich, but he had the phone number of a famous psychic because he had done some professional work with this psychic, okay? And he wanted to know if this house that he was considering buying in the country was haunted, and he called the psychic and said,

I'd really like to know if this house is haunted. And she said, what is the address of the house? And he gave it to her and she said, okay. And there was a pause and she said, no, it seems fine to me. On the phone, on the phone. And he said, don't you want to come and walk around the house? She said, no, I don't need to. I'm a psychic. She should have just looked it up. She shouldn't even have had to ask. Yeah, I'm trying. No, she did a psychic reading over the phone. And then he hired a dowser to find water on the property to dig a well.

A dowser. I think I know why this guy's not rich. And I said, did he walk around the property with a branch of you? And he said, no. He had some more scientific dowsing instruments. And it was really interesting to see him work, and we were really lucky. And I said, why? And he said, well, originally he wasn't going to come to do the dowsing.

And I said, he wasn't going to do it at all? And he said, no, he wasn't going to come to do the dowsing. And I said, he wasn't going to do it at all? And he said, no, he wasn't going to come. I called him and I said, do you need to come out and do the dowsing? When can we be there to let you onto the property? He originally said, oh, I don't need to be there. Just fax me the surveyor's layout of the property, and I'll do it here at home

with my miniature dowsing instruments. Wow. I have to say, my instinct is that ghosts aren't real. And I'm not afraid of any ghosts. But I would say that I have no problem with someone hiring a psychic to check out their house if that's what they want to do. I have no problem with someone hiring a dowser to attempt to find water if that's what they want to do. People should enjoy themselves. But honestly, purveyors of psychic pseudoscience,

like, put some effort in. Do you know what I mean? Like, do your job. Absolutely. Do your job, make the woo-woo noises, and get out there and do it. You know, otherwise, I have no respect for your craft. Look, those ghost catchers on that reality show? Sure. Ghost hunters,

right? Well, I'm sure there are 15 different kinds of ghost catching shows. Well, I realize it's Ghost Hunters and not Ghost Catchers because they've never caught one. Those guys, there's no such thing as ghosts. Everyone knows it. They go out there and they pretend to hunt for ghosts, but they

actually go to the trouble of going out there and they have their, you know, electrometers and whatever it is that they've made up that they carry around. And they pretend they're very special Ed Hardy t-shirts. Yeah. They pretend to be excited, uh, about the prospect of, uh, new ghosts. Um, they go through the whole rigmarole and, um, I give them all the credit for that. Absolutely. And, and hey, everybody, I'm a Fortean by nature. Do you know what I mean? Just because I'm a skeptic doesn't mean I believe

I'm not unwilling to be convinced by evidence if someday there is evidence that there are ghosts no one is going to be happier than me because that might mean that when I die I don't simply become

non-existent meat dust but until that time happens I don't believe in no ghosts it would be nice to know that we could all become tortured souls with unfinished business on earth. Would you prefer, let me ask you this question. Would, would you prefer to be a tortured soul wandering the earth, unable to touch or communicate with anybody and also wearing weird old timey clothes for eternity or be unsentient meat dust and not exist at all. Your consciousness just goes away.

It was a real coin toss until you mentioned the old-timey clothes. And now that's what I want to do. Right. Right, because this, after all, ladies and gentlemen, is Paul F. Tompkins. That's right. Now, are you saying it would be the clothes that I'm in that would eventually become old-timey? Or are you saying that once I become a ghost I'm in that would eventually become old-timey, or are you saying that

once I become a ghost, I have a Revolutionary War uniform on? No, you get to pick your own wardrobe. Oh, fantastic. From any era? From any era. Oh, I love it. Hey, everybody who's listening, this is, first of all, the longest and among the most pleasant,

pleasantly divergent dockets that we've ever cleared. I want to thank Paul at Tompkins for being an expert witness. Now, Paul, you are traveling via science, that is to say you're getting in an airplane and flying, to England soon. Also correct. That is right.

To perform shows. I will be appearing at the Soho Theater in London. This is my stand-up comedy debut in the United Kingdom. Is that so? Yes, April 2nd through the 13th. I wish I could be there, Paul. I'm really mad. I wish you could too, John. Yeah, I may even try to get out there.

But anyone who is listening in the UK... I'm wishing that the audience would be there. Anyone who is listening in the UK and who has access to the UK in any way. The Soho Theatre in London, that's the capital of England and the UK. April 2nd through the 13th nightly shows. That's correct.

That's your West End debut. I believe I have Mondays. Mondays I'm dark. So that's your West End debut. I believe I have Mondays. Mondays I'm dark. So that's a big run. There's no reason that people shouldn't catch all of the shows. No reason that I can think of, John. Oh, that's going to be very exciting. I envy you for performing there.

That's something that I think you're going to have a lot of fun doing. And I cannot wait to hear how great it goes. And I would be very sad if I lived in the UK and I missed it. Well, John, thank you very much. I appreciate the promotion. I would also mention that if folks don't have access to the United Kingdom, let's say they can't, they don't live there, they can't fly a plane, they don't know how to use a telephone, they don't know how to use a...

For whatever reason, they probably still are podcast enthusiasts and could check out the Pod F TomCast. One of the best podcasts that exists. You guys, these plugs, they're making me blush. And Jesse, you got anything you want to mention? Boatparty.biz? Boatparty.biz is coming up, but I will also mention that we're just about to have the Max Fund Drive. As you know, this show and all of our shows at MaximumFund.org are supported by you, the audience, and we ask for your money once a year. And it's coming up April 1st through 15th. We've got awesome thank you gifts and all kinds of stuff.

So if you're listening to this during that time, get your butt over to MaximumFund.org slash donate and support this show. We're going to be on that time, get your butt over to MaximumFun.org slash donate and support this show. We're going to be on your Twitters and your Facebooks and giving out prizes and having a big live show. Me and Jordan are going to be hosting a big live show that will be streaming to the Internet. I'll be sending you a bunch of badly spelled, unpunctuated, uncapitalized texts asking you for money. Yeah, absolutely. You monster. Whoa, you're willfully ignorant.

But yeah, the Max Fund Drive, MaximumFund.org slash donate. It's going to be the first through, Monday the 1st through Friday the 12th. And we only do it once a year. So that is really the time to get up off your rear and support this show and all the shows we make at MaximumFund.org.

Thank you very much, guys. I really appreciate it. And thank you, everybody else in the world. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO.

If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfun.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.