Judge John Hodgman - Gesundfight

Episode Date: May 15, 2019

Becca brings the case against their wife Bridgett. Becca says that Bridgett has terrible sneezes, and would like her to tone it down. Bridgett says this is just how she sneezes, and that Becca should let her sneeze in peace. Who's right? Who's wrong? Thank you to Michael Haas for naming this week's case! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Gesundheit! Becca brings the case against their wife, Bridget. Becca says that Bridget has terrible sneezes and would like her to tone it down. Bridget says this is just how she sneezes and Becca should let her sneeze in peace.

Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. If Atlas can shrug and Telemachus can sneeze, why can't John Hodgman judge? Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Beckett, Bridget, please rise and raise your right hands do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god or whatever i do i do do you swear to abide by judge john hodgman's ruling despite the fact that his own sneezes are tuned and in fact play la cucacha, not unlike the novelty car horns in my neighborhood

growing up. I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can either of you, Becca or Bridget, name the source of the quote that I paraphrased? I did change the last thing. I'll give you the, since it's so short, I'll give you the actual quote. Maybe that'll help you. If Atlas can shrug and Telemachus can sneeze, why can't Satan repent? Can either of you name the source of that quote? Bridget, let's start with you. I'm going to guess the 1930s pulp novel character and teledrama character, The Shadow, and their catchphrase. novel character and teledrama character the shadow and their catchphrase well the shadows catchphrase is who who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man the shadow knows yeah that's

what i got okay got it those are different words right yes i'm not having aphasia or something right okay all right well we'll enter in the book the the shadows catchphrase maybe the shadow of the character had a catchphrase that's more of the introduction to the shadow but anyway that's neither here nor there as the shadow sometimes was becca let's let's hear a guess from you good one john thanks i'm i'm a dad apparently you're a granddad i'm leaning into it got any fibber mcgee and molly material you want to run by us i was always more of a green hornet person than the shadow honestly captain midnight i enjoyed tails calculated to keep you in suspense

look we've all ordered cassette tapes out of the wireless catalog uh you know my heart skipped a beat when you said the wireless catalog is that still a thing i don't know it might still be oh boy well becca do you have any old-timey radio uh shows that you want to guess on a country road starring carrie grant um i think i'm gonna say uh orlando a biography by Virginia Woolf. Oh, interesting. So all guesses are wrong. But that's an interesting guess because this is from a novel and it's from a kind of phantasmagoric wild novel, not unlike Orlando to some degree, time traveling and so forth.

This is from the Illuminatus trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson in reference specifically to a novel within the novel called Telemachus Sneezed, which itself was a joke on Atlas Shrugged, a real novel, but in fact, it was also referencing the Odyssey because in the Odyssey, okay,

the famous Grecian poem or poem, as my father in law says, Penelope is hoping that Odysseus comes back. So all of these suitors that are that are trying to to get her to marry them will be sent out of her house because they all believe that Odysseus is dead. And she says, maybe when Odysseus comes back, I'll have my revenge upon these suitors. And Telemachus sneezes in the poem at this moment. And Penelope laughs. And she says, did you not see how my son sneezed as I finished them? So death for the suitors may still not be unachieved. And the reason that she enjoyed the fact that this sneeze happened was

because sneezing in the ancient world was considered to be a divine omen, a message from the God, because it was something that you could not control. It was not an action that you could force to happen. And so it was often interpreted as an omen of good fortune being sent to you by one of the Olympic gods. So it was not God bless you when you sneeze so much as to say God has blessed you or whatever. I'm not sure if either of you believe in the Olympian gods, if you're part of the Battlestar Galactica religion or whatever. So it may be, Becca, that even though you bring Bridget to this court to complain about her sneeze, it may be that your wife is being touched by divine power.

Did you think about that? I didn't. Yeah. I didn't think about it till I read that Wikipedia page earlier. I didn't know anything about that. Some guy's blog, Bryce C. Jones, told me all about that telemachus sneezing thing. A scholar of ancient history and a papyrologist. He studies papyrus. I hope he's not a horrible person. I don't think

he would be because he's a papyrologist, but he definitely knows his sneezing history. So here we are, Becca and Bridget. I have here some background information on you. You both live in New Jersey. You've been married just over a year. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Becca, you work at Sesame Workshop? I do.

Normally, that would be a job that someone would be happy to. It really sounds like you work. I'm very happy. Okay. You really sounded like you were. I'm very happy. Okay. You really, you really sounded like you, you were working in the puppet mines. You don't know what it's like to work with teeny little super guy. What do you do there at Sesame workshop? I work in education research.

Oh, they do a lot of that. Yeah. So what does that entail? Actually? Like you have focus groups of kids or teachers or what do you do? It's kind of like focus groups with kids. I'm,

I mostly am working with kids, but there are other people in my department who work with grownups. Um, we just kind of go into classrooms and we'll show kids, you know, episodes of the show or sometimes a game if that's what's being developed and see if they're learning the things that we want them to be learning from it. Right. You also teach religious education at your Unitarian church. I do. So this is a personal question, but how would you describe the contours of your faith? Do you believe that God makes us sneeze? No, not specifically.

Okay. Do you believe that a sneeze is our soul exiting our body? No. Well, thank you for the work that you do, Bridget. I have here that you're going to school to study hospitality which is awesome yes and there are two items here you like to play dungeons and dragons which is also awesome but you know uh multi-sided die are the devil's play things we all learned that growing up not for unitarians. Not for Unitarians are cool with the devil. Awesome.

Hail Satan. Why can't Satan repent? And you recently have begun making mead as a hobby, which is also awesome. Now, mead, correct me if I'm wrong here. Mead is a fermented honey solution, right? That's wrong. Tell me what it really is. Yeah. fermented honey solution right that's wrong tell me what it really is yeah so it's basically you

create what is referred to as a musk um of like honey and water and whatever like spices or flavorings or fruit you want to put in there yeah then you add yeast um as like as like someone getting into home brewing um it's pretty easy compared to a lot of other options so that's kind of why i picked it up versus like trying to make my own beer or wine, which would require a lot more equipment. You know, there's not a lot of air circulation in this studio and I'm really creating a yeasty musk right now.

Is it a musk or a must? I think it's a must now that you clarify that, but I honestly don't remember. It might be a musk. A must. It's a must. Sorry. It's a must. It's a must. Sorry. It's a must.

It's very musty in your studio and musky. So what happens is the yeast goes into the honey and water solution with all the flavorings and it eats all the sugar in that honey and then the yeast poops out alcohol and that's called fermentation. Yep. And you're doing that in your house in New Jersey? Living a home? Yeah, we have a cond a condo oh you have a condominium yeah i hear a lot of those new condominiums are building a lot of the units come with a mead parlor for fermenting no they're just

in a kind of they're in the shoe closet like on the top shelf oh that's fine then you can always blame the mead for your stinky shoes yeah Yeah, it's a win-win. And finally, it says here you have four cats. But I noticed, I looked through the evidence, you did not send any pictures of your cats. Well, I was afraid that that would be perceived as pandering. I appreciate that very much. And the court honors your restraint. But we need to have these cats available for our Instagram page, okay? Yes, and we'll send you pictures yeah send them in for the instagram we'll put them up on the show page on maximumfund.org and also on our instagram judge john hodgman and for the record let us enter into the record that your cats are named echo elizabeth josephine taylor minerva Andromeda McGonagall, Severus Phoenix Elliott, and Calliope Knox Marigold, who is a

torty. They all sound very adorable. They all sound like characters in a young adult fantasy novel. Oh yeah, maybe. Oh yeah. Is that a coincidence? Well, Echo, she's the oldest. She's named after a passage in the book house of leaves by mark daniel loosky i was gonna say i was gonna guess that she was named after the famous dolphin yeah or possibly the famous bunnyman once we had that we kind of got this greek roman sub theme going so then everything else had to follow so and honestly bridget whose cats are these do you share them equally or do they like one of you more than the other do they split up um they kind of split up Echo I had I've had Echo since before Becca and I started dating so oh so she's definitely yeah she's she's mine and I'm

definitely her favorite and she's kind of the queen so excellent and then uh Minerva likes Becca a lot more. Well, we have this wonderful household or condo hold full of mead and love and cats and religious instruction and decency and education research, but it is divided by this sneeze. So let's get to it. We're going to hear the sneeze because we do have a recording of it in evidence. But let's preface this by asking, Becca, why does it bother you? Because it's so loud. I am not convinced that this recording will even do it justice. Oh, no. It disrupts everything. It is attention seeking behavior. Oh, OK. So that is that is a real accusation

that is a real accusation right there are you suggesting that the sneeze is faked to get attention i mean i think that she genuinely sneezes but i think it is more of a production than necessary i guess we need to hear this thing, right? So we can have a real conversation about it. I was going to save the evidence till a little later on, but we have to hear it. So first, let's go to the evidence. You sent in a couple of affidavits. I'm going to read this first one sent in by Becca from your friend, Brit, who has heard Bridget sneeze and finds it unacceptable. I Brit of New York swear that I have known Becca for 10 entire years and

considered them a very best friend. I've known Bridget for about four, have witnessed the development of their relationship over time and a frequent guest at this couple's condo hold and enjoy their hospitality and cats. On one occasion, Becca and I were watching a true crime documentary in their living room. Bridget was in the kitchen cooking some sort of meal. What followed was an absolutely unacceptable eruption of sound jolting me from my chair

and resulting in me missing important details about the murder case. It was a, quote, sneeze, unquote, produced by the defendant, and it was rude and unnecessary. Becca and I were both shaken. We had to rewind the documentary to catch what we missed. An action such as this might be punished, in my opinion. Wow. Strong words. Strong words.

So before we listen to the tape, Bridget, do you remember this particular instance of sneezing? Yes, only because afterwards they both yelled at me. What did they say? It was just like, uh-uh. It was like, no. Do you agree that your sneezing is super loud? Um, I like, it's not quiet, but it's also like just my sneeze. So I'm like, I can appreciate the desire to not have me sneeze like that in public,

but I feel like in my own home, that's something that I guess should just have to deal with. Were you suggesting that you have a power over how you sneeze a little it's not like i don't think it's impossible for me to attempt to in good faith sneeze quietly look i appreciate your honesty and that you are you are under oath fake oath here because truthfully you could have said it's my sneeze and i can't change it and i was gonna have to rule in your favor but you have now acknowledged that you can dial it back that there is an option yeah but it's like that's just how i've learned to sneeze so that's just my default but this you're you're speaking against yourself you're not advocating on your own behalf by acknowledging that you could probably retrain your sneeze yeah but i

don't want to be accused of mischaracterizing. Yeah, well, look, I appreciate your honesty. You didn't pander. You didn't send in pictures of cats. You take the fake oath seriously. You're winning the ethical contest, but you might not win the judgment. Based on what I'm about to hear. But as this will be somewhat embarrassing, I have not heard this.

I want to react to this in real time. And because this might be embarrassing to you, Bridget, I need to enforce fairness and embarrass Becca. Becca, before we hear this thing, please do an imitation of Bridget's sneeze as best you can. Ooh.

Okay. It's something like this. Achoo! Yeah, it's a classic sneeze. John, can I do an imitation of what I was imagining the sneeze might sound like? Sure. Deep in the heart of Texas. It's just I kind of got carried away.

I got into my head. That would be a sneeze that I would have to rule against. That would seem to me to be unnatural and an affectation. And certainly, even if not an affectation, maybe something you would want to see a neurologist about. All right. We've delayed long enough. I've heard your impersonation of the sneeze, Becca. I've heard Jesse Thorne's impersonation of the sneeze.

Super producer Jennifer Marmer. Can I hear the sneeze, please? That was an honest reaction. What'd you do? Roll tape and wave some black pepper under her nose? Yeah. How did you capture the sneeze? I was told it needed to be ethically sourced, but we did force a sneeze.

We were in on it together. Right. Bridget consented to this for the interest of science and law? Yes. Okay. Thank you, Bridget, for contributing to justice. But was it black pepper? What happened? I think I started by just like, I decided to cook something really spicy for dinner. Yeah. And then that didn't work. So I

think I actually ended up having to use red pepper. Thank you for going through that. I appreciate it. Let's take a quick break and hear about another wonderful show provided to your ears by MaximumFun.org. We'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman,

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Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

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May I hear the tape again, please? And can you make it louder that was an honest reaction to say i flinched again that was an honest reaction i wanted to hear it louder just to make sure i was hearing everything and it kind of scared me it really did it was reflexive just like geez i'm trying to think of some bodily function that's not premeditated. Involuntary, kind of hard to control. Oh, like when your foot kicks after they hit your knee with that little hammer.

Yeah, exactly. Or when you laugh or scream. All of those involuntary things that are really beyond people's control and are not stylized in any way. You don't practice your sneeze like you practice your signature when you're 13 years old. I really came up with a great signature when I was 13 years old. I still use it. But I'm going to say something, Bridget. That sneeze is, it's a hard sneeze. It's very sharp. It's a sharp sound. Becca, why does it bother you? I mean, part of it is because, like you said, it's startling. And every time it is exactly that startling.

Yeah. But also it bothers me in particular because when I have brought it up to her that this sneeze is unacceptable, she insists that she doesn't want to have a man sneeze. So she's attempting to feminize her sneeze in some kind of way. And I don't find that acceptable. Well, that's really interesting because I know from these show notes, Bridget, that you're a trans woman. I mean, do you acknowledge that you are trying to feminize your your sneeze, as it were? I mean, I think that there is definitely truth to that.

I mean, like, but I also don't think that it's rational. I think it's just, like, how I feel about it. Did you make a choice at some point? Like, I don't like the way I sneeze. That's my old life. I got to come up with a new sneeze. I mean, like, even before even before i like realized i was trans or anything i really like hated the feeling of like a sneeze in my throat you'd have this very

like frog in your throat feel and i found that like a more quote-unquote dainty sneeze kind of alleviated that feeling so it's kind of something that i've had with me even since i was like in like middle school so that's's fascinating. And may I say, congratulations on your transition. I hope you are enjoying your life to the fullest possible extent now that you can be who you are. And I think that it's something I had never considered that there is a kind of typical masculine sneeze. Both my dad and I are cis men and we sneeze loud and annoyingly with a real, like a lot of deep vocalizing. You know, one of my kids, John, is transgender. You know this, but probably some of the audience members don't know.

And she came out to us very young and transitioned in the very basically the very beginning of elementary school. And it really is an education on just a broad variety of gender expressions that we have culturally. Yeah. When you when you have a kid who is really trying to pay attention to those things for obvious reasons, you're like, oh, geez, yeah, I guess that is gendered. Oh, boy, yeah, I guess that is gendered. And I hadn't thought about sneezes being gendered, but fair enough. Yeah, no. Not wrong.

would acknowledge in this court of fake internet law that you in fact that becca's entirely right that there is an an element of i won't say affectation because that has a a kind of negative connotation but there is an element of reinvention in this sneeze that we heard and with all of those congratulations and respectful gratitude uh i would offer that a dainty sneeze is not really your sneeze you know when i think of a dainty sneeze this is what i think of excuse me like that you may have the sneeze of like a cartoon elephant you may have the sneeze of like a cartoon elephant me is that the sneeze of a cartoon elephant well you you may also have the sneeze of a cartoon elephant john i haven't heard you sneeze in a while uh but i'm talking about the the sneeze currently being litigated it just Bridget's specific sneeze?

I do think that all sneezes are terrible, but I acknowledge that, you know, something you can help. When I sneeze, I always apologize to the point where recently a co-worker asked me to stop apologizing every time I sneeze. Well, how do you do you say I'm sorry? Or do you say pardon me? Or do you like write or do you write letters of apology to people? I don't do that. But that's not a bad idea. I usually just as soon as I sneeze, I just say, oh, sorry.

I could see how that could be annoying after three sneezes in a row. Like if you're doing it after each, it's like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If I were in a puppet show with you, I might say, all right, that's enough. What's your sneeze like, Becca? Normal. Normal is a problematic term. I think you appreciate it. Because I have it here in the notes that you are a non-binary person. Is that correct? Yes. Yes, I am.

Yeah. We should be approaching this with a more fluidity than pushing social norms of sneezes on everybody. Than pushing social norms of sneezes on everybody. No, you're right. You're right. I mean, because I don't like sneezes, I think I try to make my sneeze quiet. I think I try to quiet my sneeze. Bridget, do you think that they succeed in doing that? Yeah, I mean, sneezes don't really bother me unless you get the multi multi-repetitive sneezes in a row while someone's like talking.

Right. And that drives me batty, but that drives everyone batty. Like what Becca does with the apologies right after. Yeah, that actually probably bothers me more than their sneezes. Yeah, it's not the sneeze, it's the cover up. It's like Watergate. Remember Watergate when that seemed bad? Bridget, can you do an impersonation of Becca sneezing and try to be as inflammatory as possible in this? Sorry.

That was pretty accurate. May I hear it one more time, please? I'm sorry. Well, first of all, I appreciate the preparation. Like, you really had to build up to it. Now, Bridget, Becca submitted this evidence from your so-called mutual friend, Britt, complaining about your sneeze. Is there anyone else in your life who has complained about your sneeze?

else in your life who has complained about your sneeze um my friend warren um but he's kind of a curmudgeonly old man at the age of 26 so he kind of complains about everything uh-huh and also i was his roommate in college and i was horribly messy in college yeah you you may or may not know that becca also sent an affidavit from warren did you know this yes i did all right this is what warren sent in i warren of milwaukee wisconsin swear that i have a friendship and former roommateship of nearly eight years with bridget friendship nearly six years with becca personal knowledge of the facts and matters herein i have witnessed bridget spilling lit hookah ash onto a carpeted floor. I have fed Bridget's cats out of necessity due to her own negligence. I have done Bridget's dishwashing assigned to her. I have suffered at the hands of fruit flies after Bridget has not done her washing up.

I have suffered from ants invading our pantry in response to poor cleanliness. I have been fed raw egg products in the guise of quote good cooking. I have unclogged tub drains stuck with Bridget's hair. I have cleaned up spills, scuffs, scrap scrapes and stains left in bridget's wake especially alcohol that has become sticky i've had to deal with bridget's scattered clothing i've had to deal with extremely long baths in an apartment with one bathroom i testify that due to such derogatory conditions of roommateship i fled fled from Wisconsin to Connecticut for two years in order to heal from the traumatizing and monstrous behavior.

And when that distance wasn't enough, I moved overseas, et cetera, et cetera. I'm learning to heal, but it will take time. Well, Warren is very dramatic. Yes, that's true. And Becca, it's an interesting affidavit that you sent in, because not once did Warren mention Bridget's sneeze. What were you hoping to accomplish by making me read all these terrible things about your wife on a podcast? I just wanted to set a tone for other monstrous behavior that Bridget tends to engage in.

John, it's not about whether you win in the courtroom. It's about whether you win in the court of public opinion. I suppose you're right. Bridget, how do you respond to these accusations? Are any of these things still an issue in your life? I mean, I would say, one, I'm not 20 anymore. Yeah. So I think that's part of it.

And also, I was kind of a mess at that period of my life in many other ways. So I don't think that it's surprising that I left my apartment a mess as well. Can I tell you, Judge Hodgman, something that happened to me when I was in college once? Sure. My friend and roommate, Nathaniel, one of the world's great guys, a golden hearted man, if ever there was one. WGG. And I shared a small apartment in the beach flats of Santa Cruz, California, where I went to college, California being a state on the western coast of the United States. Oh, yeah, I've heard of it.

And Nathaniel, because of my family situation, I had essentially been raising myself since age eight or so. But Nathaniel had a very caring mother who cared for him extensively and had beautiful people skills and mixed life skills at the time. And one day I came home and we had a sort of small open living room that opened directly onto the kitchen. And I saw there was a pot on the stove. And I walked over and the flame was on. And there was a pot on top of the flame, a small sort of pasta pot. And there was just an egg inside. Just no water.

Just an egg. A whole egg. And in the 20 or so years since then, Nathaniel and I have often discussed the question, which was, was there ever water inside there? was there ever water inside there? I immediately ran to Nathaniel, I think was maybe taking a shower or something, and said, Nathaniel, you need water to cook an egg. And if I remember correctly, his defense was there used to be water in there,

but then he forgot that he put it on the stove. So you're suggesting the water evaporated all out and left behind the super cooked egg? That's what he suggested at the time. Well, it's better than the raw eggs that Bridget's was feeding Warren. It was an eggnog. It wasn't that weird. She does this

with many of our loved ones, though. No one wants to have raw eggs, Bridget. I like eggnog. Yeah, eggnog, you know, real traditional eggnog, you are using raw eggs. And the risk of salmonella is present but not major. I'm not asking anyone else to go out and do it.

Don't you usually make kind of a custard to make eggnog? Oh, yeah, maybe you're right. Like when you're making custard ice cream? I think you heat it a little. There are two styles. One is cooked, one isn't. I was using Charles Mingus' eggnog recipe, which is notoriously alcoholic. I mean, if you're going nog, you're going to want to go Mingus. Unless you're going to use the Coltrane recipe.

I like Kenny G's recipe. It's a little lighter and smoother. It's basically meringue. a little easier yeah yeah it's basically meringue so first of all when you serve your raw egg charlie minkus eggnog are you getting consent from people before you give them this way you're telling them that's what's in there right yeah they like watch me make it yeah okay so warren was salmonelling himself as of his own free will yeah he's just curmudgeoning. Yeah. I don't want to say, Becca, a lot of this letter goes against you because it's just character assassination. Well, I think part of it, too, is that as monstrous as Bridget can be, I love her. And I'm willing to live with a lot of things that she does that annoy me.

But I can't with this sneeze. What other things annoy you? It's mostly things on this list. The raw egg thing really gets me every time. She'll make like all kinds of drinks with rags and that it really upsets me. You also know that she's making mead in your closet. She goes to extremes. She does. She absolutely does. Is she still dumping lit hookah ash all over the place? Don't tell me you've got a hookah in your condo. She does own a hookah, but I will not allow her to smoke in our home. Bridget, what are you smoking in that hookah? Nothing illicit.

Just like flavored vapor tobacco? Yeah. I don't use it very often, but it's nice sometimes. When you're smoking that hookah, are you on top of a big mushroom? No, and I'm not with a caterpillar either and what are the monstrous things that you are saying that you will live with becca if only bridget would attempt to change her sneeze she does get into these like kicks of things like right now she's really into the mead thing and it's all she wants to talk about. She is like on all these subreddits reading about mead and the meads other people make and she wants to tell me about them all the time. She does a similar thing with Dungeons and Dragons where she just will read all kinds of things and buy all kinds of books and want to talk to me about them, even though she knows I'm not interested.

Do you plead guilty to this, Bridget? Yeah. I got to tell you, Becca, you got yourself a good one. She's wonderful. Yeah. I mean, the things that you say that you're willing to put up with are aspects of Bridget's personality. They are what make her her.

I don't agree that mead is a personality trait. No, but you know what I'm talking about. I do. No one just makes mead in their closet by accident. So Becca has made some concessions to your life and personality and tastes, Bridget, you've already changed your sneeze once. Why not change it again?

I don't know. It's mine. How does it make you feel when people, and especially your wife, say they can't stand your sneeze? I mean, it doesn't like really bother me. I'm like annoyed that they're annoyed,

but it's nothing like deep and serious. So, okay. So you don't feel devalued or unloved in any way? No. I think it's just something they like to criticize me for. Becca, you're getting off easy here. Becca, you're getting off so easy here there is no such thing as a gendered sneeze I just I can't I can't agree with that

whoa I mean I don't I don't think sneezes are like inherently gendered but I think that like there are lots of things that are like kind of fake gendered because society is weird so like why can't that also if that can include like baby clothes, why can't that include a sneeze?

I mean, I think the gender is incredibly performative. And as a non-binary person, that is often very perplexing to me. But this performance is particularly extreme. You really believe that it is a performance more than it is an involuntary action that has been slightly changed? I mean, I think that if she were to try to change it, that she would have to think about it more because I think this has become her default sneeze. But I know that she can sneeze differently than that. I've heard it.

Well, you've heard a different sneeze. Yes. There's another sneeze in her repertoire. Yes, there is. That's much more subdued. What does that one sound like? Just like, achoo! It's pretty normal. The current primary sneeze does sound a little bit like Mary Poppins trying to initiate a hurricane.

All right. You know what I need to do is, I think I've heard everything I need to hear. I would like to hear the sneeze one more time to blow me gale force into my chambers so that I can make this decision. Super producer Jennifer Marmer, hit me again one more time with the sneeze. Oh, jeez.

All right. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. I'm already on the other side of the room. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the court. Becca, how are you feeling about your chances in the case? I think I'm feeling pretty good. I don't feel like I came out of this looking particularly good. So I do want to make it clear that I really love my wife. We'll see what the judge has to say about that.

Bridget, how are you feeling about your chances? I'm feeling pretty good. I mean, who's to say? But I think I make a strong case, so. Do you have an alternate sneeze ready? I mean, I will say that, like, in public, I have listened to this feedback because obnoxious sneezes in public, I think, are distinct from sneezing in private. A more intimate sneeze.

Yeah, exactly. Like when I'm like in my house, I think I should be entitled to let my sneezes be. That's the principle that this country was built upon. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back with his verdict in just a moment. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So, according to the information presented to me, the ideal rulings in this case for Becca are for Bridget to sneeze normally. It's a loaded word in this context. And Bridget's request is to be able to sneeze in peace, at least in her own house, as you say. sneeze in peace, at least in her own house, as you say. I came into this, you know, obviously thinking as the ancient Greeks did, that the sneeze is a completely involuntary, uncontrollable force of nature. It is like having God or whatever speak through you plus spit. But obviously my eyes have been opened, both by Bridget's reveal that an adjustment from one kind of sneezing to her perception

of a more feminine sneezing was kind of part of her transition. And of course we do alter our sneezes all the time. We do have our indoor sneezes and our outdoor sneezes and our polite sneezes and our cubicle sneezes and everything else. Because both of you are so game in imitating sneezes, I will tell you that I have a sneeze that can be extremely disruptive, as my own wife has told me many a time. And it goes a little something like this.

That's it! That's it! But it also can go a little something like this. Achoo! Achoo! But it also can go a little something like this. You know, when you swallow your sneezes, which they tell you not to do. But it's great. It's great because no one looks

funny and you don't have to say, I'm sorry. Bridget, by acknowledging that not only did you adjust your sneeze as part of becoming who you are, but also that you are aware that you can adjust your sneeze for mixed company, you are acknowledging that it is very possible for this court to, I mean, physically possible, I don't know about legally just yet, physically possible for you to change your sneeze and therefore I may consider ordering you to do so. And yet I take issue with Becca's request for a ruling if becca had said please ask my wife to stop scaring me with her loud sneezing

please ask my wife to stop putting our four beloved cats in danger of jumping out of windows because of this startling loud sneeze this court might be more receptive to the argument. But instead they asked, order my wife to sneeze normal. If a cis man and cis woman, heterosexual couple, married or not, came to me and the man said tell my wife to to sneeze

normal with her body that man would be an unparalleled monster worse even than the bridget described in warren's letter becca i don't think you're a monster but you know as a non-binary person who is married to a trans woman you know normal is a problematic term it is enough to say to your loved one hey i don't appreciate it when you scare me. It would be the equivalent of saying I get that we all need to fart, but not while you're making dinner, please. We have an obligation within intimate relationships to police our own smells and noises to some degree.

I swallow my sneeze when my wife is around because I don't want her to yell at me. I let my sneeze out when no one is around because it feels fantastic. I cannot order Bridget to change who she is You wouldn't want Becca for me to order Bridget to change who she is No, never To have her give up her Mead and D&D and hookah obsessions

No, I love when she gets into things. Yeah. She's wonderful. At one point, she got into changing her sneeze, and she took a little bit of a wrong turn. Mm-hmm. But it's still who she is. She still demands attention with that sneeze.

She wants the world to know she's sneezing, and there is nothing abnormal about bridget or becca or jesse or super producer jennifer marmer there i have some issues for sure everyone knows this but you know what i'm saying she is who she is and this sneeze for better and mainly worse, part of the deal. I will not order you, Bridget, to change your sneeze, but I will advise you that it could use some workshopping. But if this is your sneeze, I am not the one to question it. Go and be the person that you are, of course. I am not the one to question it.

Go and be the person that you are, of course. And maybe out of consideration, not surrender, but out of consideration to Becca, maybe take it down a thousand when they're around. Don't scare them. This is not in order to change yourself, but in order to be thoughtful, obviously, as you obviously are. Some people don't want to eat those raw eggs, no matter what Charlie Minkus told them to do. But as it is, the sneeze, legally speaking, is an aspect of Bridget's personhood and body. And I cannot interfere. I find in Bridget's favor, this is the sound of Bridget's personhood and body. And I cannot interfere. I find in Bridget's favor, this is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Becca, how are you feeling about this decision? I think I understand where the judge is coming from. I shouldn't have used the word normal. I appreciate that he emphasized how outrageous the sneeze was. So maybe hearing it from such authority will help Bridget to rethink this particular sneeze. Bridget, how are you feeling? Are there changes in your future? I mean, I think that's something I'm willing to explore. But, yeah, I'm happy.

It turned out more or less how I wanted it to, to be honest. So I'm very happy about that. Very fair. I wish you good luck in all your Sneasel explorations. And in your never-ending battle against sneeze hegemony. Becca Bridget, thank you for joining us on the judge John Hodgman podcast. Another judge John Hodgman cases in the books before we dispense some swift

justice. We want to thank Michael Haas for naming this week's episode. Gesund fight. It's a good name. I loveheit. It's a good name. I love that. That was a good one. I like it. Particularly good one.

They're always good. They're always good. Everyone sends in. There are a lot of good ones this time, but that is, I like it. If you'd like to name a future episode, just like Michael did, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We put out our calls for submissions there. You can follow John and myself on Twitter, at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO. And check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss the episode at maximumfun.reddit.com. I always enjoy both of those. I always like the comments in the Reddit and I always check out that hashtag JJHO. I always appreciate the cool stuff that people have to say. And we are on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman.

That I don't like. No, I do like that. You got me. You stirred me right up there. Okay. Trying to mix things up a little, you know. Make sure to follow us there

for evidence and other fun stuff. This week's episode recorded by our friend Paul Ruest at Argo Studios in New York City. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. She was also

the engineer here in Los Angeles. John, engineering himself in Brooklyn, New York. Barely. Here is our swift justice question. Sarah says, My husband believes the correct way to eat a peanut butter sandwich is, commence capital letters, with butter in addition to the peanut butter.

Whoa. Whoa. That is what the middle schoolers in my life call a weird flex. A weird flex. I think it's a big move to add table butter, regular butter, dairy butter to a peanut butter sandwich. Wow. I think a weird flex would be like if you did that and then you were like peanut butter sandwiches. Yeah, I eat those with peanut butter and butter. Sure. I'm sure I used it wrong, but you understand what I'm saying.

It's a provocative thing to do. It's provocative. Sarah's husband is being provocative and not just feeling provocative, thought provocative. Like I'm thinking about it. It seems like it would be too rich to me for my palate. I think you're already got some heavy fat flavor going on with that peanut butter. I'm not sure that that butter is going to add or detract to it, but I'll tell you something. And by the way, I was thinking about trying it, but I will not torture the folks with misophonia in the audience from listening to me eat this on mic.

I guess I can say I'm not trying it also because I don't want to do it. the folks with misophonia in the audience from listening to me eat this on mic. I guess I can say I'm not trying at all because I don't want to do it. It sounds gross. But in a world in which peanut butter and banana sandwiches are commonplace, in a world in which peanut butter and pickle sandwiches exist, and I'll tell you something, peanut butter on a cracker with pickle and a little sriracha, that came from a newspaper somewhere.

It was a really good snack. I like it. You know, I just don't think that any court could deny this. P.O.R. sandwiches, I think, are really, really personal. They are a childhood food. And they are deeply satisfying on a deep level. And I'm not going to kink shame Sarah's husband's sandwich. So go for it. Jesse Thorne, you think I should rule against a sandwich or you think I'm right? My father was born and largely raised in Kansas City, Missouri. And my father's parents were from Iola, Kansas and environs, small town in Kansas. And I learned in my childhood the broad variety of foods that could

be buttered. I see buttering the not necessary to butter as part of my cultural heritage and would never stand against it in any context. How can you know if you don't try? Maybe I'll go to try tonight. I remember being 12 years old and seeing my mom salt her salad and think, that's weird. There's already salad dressing on that salad. Then I salted a salad and said to myself, huh, that made that salad taste better. So never again will I judge the condiments others use. All right. There is no such thing as normal when it comes to sneezes or sandwiches. And that's Swift Justice. That's it for this week's episode. You can submit your cases at maximumfund.org

slash JJHO or email hodgman at maximumfund.org. No case is too small. We look at them all. We're also going to be in Los Angeles on June 6th. Don't forget, buy your tickets now. You can find the link at MaximumFun.org. We'll talk to you next time on Judge John Hodgman.