Judge John Hodgman - God Save the Teen

Episode Date: March 26, 2014

Callum is a teenager obsessed with British culture, and wants to go to university abroad. His older brother wants him to reconsider.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, God save the teen. Callum is a teenage Anglophile. He's a junior in high school and wants to go to university in the UK. His older brother, Will, thinks Callum's love of all things British has gone too far. Who's right? Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Well, I could have been a judge, but I never had the Latin. I never had the Latin for the judging. I never had sufficient of it to get through the rigorous judging exams. They're noted for their rigor. People come staggering out saying, My God, what a rigorous exam.

And so I became a miner instead, a coal miner. I managed to get through the mining exams. They're not very rigorous. They only ask one question. They ask, who are you? And I got 75% for that. The trouble with it is people. I'm not saying that you get a load of riffraff down the mine. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying we had a load of riffraff down my mind. Very boring conversationalist, extremely boring.

If you were searching for a word to describe the conversation, boring would spring to your lips. If you ever want to hear things like, hello, I found a bit of coal. Have you really? Yes, no doubt about it. This black substance is coal, all right. Jolly good, the very thing we're looking for. It's not enough to keep the mind alive, is it? Whoops. Did you notice I suddenly went, whoops? It's an impediment I got from being down the mine because one day I was walking along in the dark when I came across the body of a dead pit pony. Whoops. And that's another reason why I couldn't be a judge because I might have been up there all regal sentencing away. I sentence you to whoops.

And you see the trouble is under English law that would have to stand. So all in all, I'd rather have been a judge than a minor. Okay, Jesse Thorne, you can swear them in. Whoops! Please rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. Yes.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he isn't a resident of the United States or Britain, but rather the somewhat extra-legal territory of Sealand? Yes, I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. I would say, Callum and Will, you may be seated, but I want you to remain standing for that incredible Sealand reference that Jesse Thorne just made. That is pretty esoteric. Is that like the oil, Derek, that some dude tried to make into a sovereign nation? Is that what I'm remembering?

By some dude, you mean the king of Sealand. Yeah. All right, Smarty. What's his name? Okay. So the original king, the founder of Sealand is different from the current king of Sealand as I understand it. The founder of Sealand is a guy named Bates. Paddy Roy Bates? You got it.

Paddy Roy Bates. Paddy Roy Bates has passed on, but his son, his son Michael, is the current king of Sealand. Excuse me, prince of Sealand. Right, it is a principality. It is not a kingdom. The capital is H.M. Fort Ruffs. It's literally

an oil derrick, a floating pontoon base of top two hollow towers upon which structures have been built that Patty Roy Bates claims which structures have been built that patty roy bates claims originally to have been a micro nation oh i'm quoting from wikipedia look it up everybody nice work if you are from sealand you are a sealander or you are sealand dick thanks for taking the time wikipedia for putting that in. If you found your own nation, you are definitely a Sealand dick. All right, Will and Colm, you may be seated.

I could just read this. You know, that's the thing. And with the cultural reference, too, I could have read that for an hour. I could read either the Wikipedia page, do a live reading of the Wikipedia page for Sealand, or to read that entire monologue. But I won't because for an immediate summary judgment in either of yours favors, Will or Callum, can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Will, you will not get it, so give it a shot. Okay, that sounded like the workings of a British humorist.

So I'm going to guess a British humorist, Stephen Fry. Was it a monologue by Stephen Fry? Incorrect, sir. Incorrect. Go home in shame. Callum, you are the Anglophile of the two brothers. And the reason that I read this was in the hopes that you would understand it and be able to identify the source. If you cannot identify it, you understand that your case basically goes

into the loo, as they say. I understand. Can you name the author of that? Probably not. The only piece of coal mining fiction that immediately springs to mind for me is the musical Billy Elliot. And I highly doubt that it is from Billy Elliot, but I'm going to guess that anyway. No, you are totally wrong. And you have undone yourself even further as an Anglophile, because a true Anglophile would know there is no end of coal mining fiction references protest songs it uh it's it it runs a deep and dark vein through the through the cultural consciousness of of england see uh all the songs of billy bragg no you are both wrong. In fact, Will was much closer than Callum. It is the work of a British humorist, but it is a humorist of one

generation removed from Stephen Fry. It is the great Peter Cook. Peter Cook, who with Dudley Moore and Alan Bennett and Jonathan Miller composed the Beyond the Fringe sketch show and ushered in what was called the satire boom in British comedy. Although I think that that's something of a misnomer. British comedy, although I think that that's something of a misnomer. And it was profoundly influential on upon Monty Python and and of the four because Dudley Moore was very, very funny and became a movie star. Alan Bennett is also an incredibly talented playwright.

And Jonathan Miller is also a physician and an opera director. Too many things these British dudes do. So there you have it. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Everyone's wrong. And we have to hear this case um but uh will you might be interested to look up uh stephen fry's eulogy of peter cook who died in the early 90s it's on youtube and it's very moving and interesting and thought provoking. All right. Uh, all right.

So Callum. Yes. You wish to be educated in the United Kingdom. Yes. Because of your anglophilia. What I understand is that you are a junior in, uh, high school. Correct.

So what would that make your age? I'm 17. And how would you represent that in stone? In stone, that is exactly 2.8 stone. 2.8 stone years. And Will, you are his older brother. Is that correct? That's correct.

And how old are you? I'm three and a half stone years, 24. You're 24. Do you have any other brothers or sisters? Nope. Okay. So it's quite a gap between the two of you guys. Yes.

Mind the gap, as they say on the tube. Look out, here comes Judge Hodgman. I feel I feel I feel the need to shoot myself in the face with a crossbow after that one. Good. That's not even a reference to anything British. That's just a desire to be killed by a crossbow for hatred of my own joke. hatred of my own joke. Okay. And you think that Callum should not be educated in the United Kingdom. And you bring the case against your younger brother.

Is that not wrong? That is not wrong. Very good. Please explain to the court what your problem is with your brother. Just relating to this case or in general i'll i'll i'll allow a uh a macro case to be made after i hear the micro case sure sure well pertaining to this micro case uh Callum has had no experience traveling abroad before this, and I think it would be a little much just to immediately jump into committing yourself to,

you know, four or five years in England without having any prior experience of living abroad anywhere, or even really dealing with British people of any nature. I don't think Callum knows any British people. Is that true, Callum? Yes. That is true. Also, another problem with him spending so many years abroad from the outset would be the travel costs. If he wants to visit home, it would be very expensive, or if I wanted to visit him, it would be very expensive.

Or if I wanted to visit him, it would be very expensive. Right, but Will, let me interrupt you there. Sure. My suspicion is Callum wants to go and never come back. Isn't that correct, Callum? You're not going to be traveling back and forth. You want to go and not look back. Pretty much.

Where do you guys live now? Wisconsin. And why do you hate Wisconsin so much, Callum? Well, I don't specifically hate Wisconsin much. It's pretty cold and there's not much going on here on the whole.

It would be my primary beef. I can see why you would love the idea of spending time in rural England. Because it's so warm and lively. Tropical. Where in Wisconsin are you? I am in Burlington and my brother lives in Madison. Okay.

Oh, you live in Madison, Will. Yeah, I do. The big city. The big M. The second biggest M, I guess, in Wisconsin. Well, I am fond of Wisconsin, Callum. Tell me why you want to leave it behind and go to England to study.

To correct you there, Your Honor, I would like to go to Scotland to study. To Scotland? At the University of Edinburgh. And I've lived in Wisconsin since the year 2000. to study. To Scotland? At the University of Edinburgh. And I've lived in Wisconsin since the year 2000. I feel I have taken in

all of its sites and culture and it would be good for me at this point to move on from the cheesy wilderness of my state that I currently live in. And did you throw a dart at a map in a pub in order to choose Scotland? Or is there something specific there?

You are not an Anglophile then. You are a, what, a Scotlophile? I guess I'd be a Galophile. I don't know. Specifically in Scotland, there is the University of Edinburgh and Edinburgh City in general, which is a place I would like to experience and live in. A place to which you have never been? I have never been to Edinburgh, no.

Have you ever been to the United Kingdom? I have not. Have you ever been to Canada? I have not been to Canada. Have you ever been outside of the United States? I have been to Mexico when I have not been to Canada. Have you ever been outside of the United States? I have been to Mexico when I was approximately three years old. Doesn't count. A three-year-old visit to Mexico doesn't count.

Okay, so you want to leave the country for the first time ever. You want very specifically to go to Edinburgh because you love the city and you want to go to that university. Two things that you have never experienced firsthand. To what do you owe this fascination? By the way, I will say this, I have been to Edinburgh, and it is great. I absolutely could see why a 17-year-old person from Wisconsin would want to study there. It would be fantastic. But I know that because I've been there at various stages of my life. You never have. What do you know about it? I do know that Edinburgh is listed as UNICEF's first world city of literature, and I'm interested in writing. And I also know that Edinburgh is the site of the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, which is regarded as the best alternative performance festival in the world.

And that is exactly where Peter Cook and Dudley Moore and Jonathan Miller and Alan Bennett began their international careers. They were called Beyond the Fringe because they were part beyond the fringe because they were they were part of the the fringe festival as well as uh the careers of spike milligan and members of the goon show and monty python and various other you really should have you really should have gotten you really should have gotten that peter cook reference buddy i should have given the given the names you're dropping now i kind of feel like he's just reading from a pamphlet that he wrote away for. Yeah. Okay.

So you love all the English comedians that and humorists and comic performers that got their start or a boost in fame because of the fringe. Stephen Fry included. What else? a boost in fame because of the fringe, Stephen Fry included. What else? Edinburgh University, or the University of Edinburgh, has an excellent program for English and is regarded as one of the best in the world, as well as it being an excellent cultural center.

It's also very old, and living in Burlington, Wisconsin, there isn't much of an old things thing here. Most stuff dates back less than 100 years. And it would be very interesting to me to live in an area that has buildings and architecture going back a very long time. Are you aware that there are other universities in the United States, there are cities and universities that are older and have great English departments. Yes, I'm aware of that. So why is it important for you to leave this country and go to another one?

Because as far as I can tell, Edinburgh is pretty much the place to be as far as learning to perform and write comedy and things of that nature. And specifically the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, as long as you can raise the costs to the festival, you're allowed to perform there, which is a very good deal, first of all,

and it's also a great experience for a future performance. So you would like to be a comedy writer and performer? Or something of that nature. Callum, you know that the people who perform in the Fringe Festival don't live year-round in Edinburgh. Right. Thank you, Jesse. It's like, well, I really want to be an independent filmmaker. So anyway, I'm moving to Sundance.

I think Jesse makes a strong argument. Will, can you also make a strong argument as to why Callum should not be allowed to do what he is considering doing? Well, it's not so much not being allowed. I just want to get him to consider his options more carefully and thoroughly. For instance, he could study abroad there, certainly, and he would gain the same experience he would by going there. I think that's just a better and more reasonable option for him. I've asked Callum a couple of times why he wants to move to

Scotland and he's worked very hard to convince me that this is a rational decision by talking about the bona fides of the University of Edinburgh and the practical consideration of living in a place

where there is an international festival of Edinburgh and the practical consideration of living in a place where there is an international festival of theater and comedy, and that that's a practical concern for his future career, all of which is bogus, of course, because he doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's never been there. Since he seems unable to make an irrational explanation for his, or since he seems unable to make an emotional explanation for his, or since he seems unable to make an emotional explanation for his irrational desire to go abroad, can you explain to me why he is so fascinated with Scotland? I can't explain to you why he's so fascinated with Scotland.

I had considered him to be more fascinated with England and the UK. He is very into Doctor Who and other British shows. I honestly didn't know that he was mostly considering Scotland. This is news to you. Correct, yeah. I had just heard England before when he was talking about it. And I think he mentioned the University of Cardiff as well before. Oh, sure.

Well, that's where the production offices of Doctor Who are. That makes sense then. I think. They have some Cardiff connection, do they not, Callum? What's the connection between Doctor Who and Cardiff, Wales? You are correct. Doctor Who is currently filmed and produced by BBC Wales. But that did not factor into my decision.

The primary factor of my decision was, at the time, extremely irrational, that the British indie-slash-punk band Los Campesinos all went to the University of Cardiff, and they described it as one of the best universities in the UK. However, upon further research, I discovered that it's a very good university in the UK. However, upon further research, I discovered that it's a very good university in the UK, but there isn't that much setting it apart from other things and that the University of Edinburgh is much more in line with my interests. Why have you not considered Oxford

or Cambridge the true birthplace of the Monty Pythons and the Stephen Fries and the Beyond the Fringes and so on? I have considered Cambridge and Oxford, but their entrance requirements are extremely stringent and bank on a lot of tests and entrance exams. They're also more expensive than the University of Edinburgh. So a lot of it is being realistic that I would likely not be able to get into the University of Oxford or Cambridge. And I feel I could probably get into the University of Edinburgh. Kim, may we just make a transcript of what you just said and send it to them as your college essay?

Yes. Yes, please. Is what your brother says correct do you love british and uk-ish media i do and and and that therefore you want to go and be there in the place that makes the things you love uh that's definitely a factor in my decision. I'm also a large fan of the alternative comedy of the UK. Like, for example, Stuart Lee is one of my favorite comedians of all time. Of course. An English comedian who made a name for himself at the Edinburgh Fringe. And a genius. I agree.

I sure do hope he's English, because if you get these things wrong, everyone will murder you. As far as I know, he may be well. Is he English? He's English, right? He is English, but he did a long and possibly untrue stand-up routine about him discovering he adopted origins as being Scottish. So it's possible.

A distinction that for many Americans would be minor, but for Scottish people and for English people, it is a major. Judge Hodgman, just imagine what it's like to grow up with a stepmother who herself grew up Catholic in Belfast, and you'll get a taste of how major the distinctions are. Of course. Yeah, I haven't even touched the Irish troubles. And nor do I think would one commonplace, would one commonly conflate the Irish experience with the English experience? the Irish experience with the English experience, certainly not. But I think the conflation of England and Scotland and Wales is oftentimes a little bit more, a more common error. But you are not making that error. You are making the distinctions. You have done your homework insofar as you have watched a lot of Doctor Who and you've listened to some bands

and you've mentioned Stuart Lee. What else do you love? What else do I love? I'm interested in British history and just, I guess, history in general. I'm interested in various British authors. Such as? Let's see um you shouldn't be doing this if it's something you love it should be really coming to mind i know that you love the the the music of los campesinos and i know that you love the comedy of stewart lee because that's something you can't keep from you can't keep away from mentioning. But now I feel like you're digging to get some more substantive stuff that you love,

because that's somehow going to convince me more. If you're just having a mind fart, which is a colloquial rhyming slang for brain flatulence, brain flatulence uh you uh and you and you can't remember the things you love because you're talking on a on a on a world on a world-renowned podcast which is listened to by the way by at least four or five people in the uk wow then that's fine but but then then let's take one second and if if there if there's something you really love, tell me what it is. Besides comedy. Comedy is enough. You understand? It certainly is enough for me. But is there other stuff that you really love?

Tell me what you really love about Scotland, England, Wales, the whole UK experience. As far as English literature, I like Shakespeare a lot, but that's pretty – I didn't want to just say that because that sounds vaguely pretentious and sort of made up. I also like Jane Eyre a lot. A lot of Victorian novelists, Charles Dickens and things of that nature. That's a little Cockney rhyming slang that we call pan le fos, which is to say on the nose. slaying that we call pon le fos, which is to say on the nose. You remind me of the kid that I went to college with who prided himself, who really fancied himself a sinniast and someone who constructed his youthful personality. Look, we all sinned when we were your age. Don't worry,

we all had affectations. I'll tell you mine in a minute. But his was to construct an identity for himself of being a true cineast. And so he would wear his beret and wander up to people and say, do you like movies? And I, having worked in an art house movie theater, had to admit to this guy, yes, I did, even though I did not want to get into this conversation.

And he was like, what's your favorite movie? And I'm like, well, I don't know, The Third Man or whatever, because that's one of my favorite movies. It's a great movie. And this poor guy would say, what kind of movies do you like? He's like, well, I really like silent films like Charlie Chaplin. I really, I'm very interested in film noir like Casablanca. Like every example that he had for the things that he loved was the most best known example.

It made me really distrust that kid, as I distrust you, Callum. You know what, Judge Hodgman? I don't care what you say. I think the best movie ever made is Citizen Kane. Yeah, you know what? A passionate argument could be made. I'm not getting a lot of passion off of you here, Callum, and I'm trying to wonder why it is. Let me ask Will.

Will, why am I not getting passion off of Callum for this stuff? He's going to change his whole life and go to a place he's never been before and he can barely stir up the the energy to say stewart lee to me what's going on with your younger brother here it could it could be nerves or exhaustion he's very busy these days i'm not sure i i do believe that he is passionate though and i can throw him a bone and say uh i i am aware of some british literature that he really does like i forget forget the author, but the book is called Skippy Dies or something. That's one he was talking about a lot. That is an Irish book.

Oh, well, I would get murdered. Nice catch. Nice catch, Callum. I like that. Nice catch. More examples have come to mind. I'm a big fan of the works of Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore, who are two graphic novelists from the UK.

I specifically like Neil Gaiman's Sand Moore, who are two graphic novelists from the UK. I specifically like Neil Gaiman's Sandman series a lot. Although that doesn't take place in the UK. It takes place primarily in The Dreaming. You're aware that Neil Gaiman left the UK, right? Yes, but at the time that he was writing

Sandman, he was living in the UK. Yeah, you know, Neil Gaiman has lived for the past many years in Wisconsin, actually. Did you know that? I did know that. Do you ever see him around town? The cultural background around the town of Wisconsin.

He certainly has the accent. Can we just... You love the accent, right? That's it. I'm not trying to put you down here you're talking to a guy who is we're the same you think I didn't want to go

study in England or Scotland when I was your age of course I did think I didn't watch Doctor Who and wear a long scarf all the time and wear an overcoat and a fedora because Doctor Who taught me that fashion wise anything goes the worst lesson I ever learned of course what do you think? What do you think? I heard that Peter Cook from,

I was, my mom was an Anglophile. It came to me genetically. 12 years old. I was taken to London by my mom and dad because my dad got a, uh, was going to a conference over there, and my mom was obsessed with England. And I was fascinated, too, because I love the accent, and I love the travel that involves only the slightest cultural differences. For some reason, it's more interesting to me that you have a different name for bus than an entire different worldview and language and i immediately got sick i got a terrible head cold and and flew actually and i had to stay

in bed in the flat that we had rented for the two weeks we were there or whatever and all i did was watch british television and as far as I was concerned, I was like, this is why I came here, because I loved British television. I loved Monty Python. I loved Benny Hill. That's how deep I rolled, or I should say how little standards I had when it came to anything with an accent attached to it. I watched The Upstairs Down downstairs with my mom and dad,

weird only child growing up in Brookline, Massachusetts, large public television, a large vibrant public television station. Of course, I loved England and Scotland and Wales and the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Two,

two separate countries. Don't be mad at me. I've probably said something wrong there that people are going to get mad at me about. Yeah, that last part depends on who you ask. And on the TV comes this crazy guy sitting on a bench doing this monologue about he could have been a judge

if he had the Latin, so instead he became a minor. It was years later that I figured out that that was Peter Cook, that I had seen in that flat by myself as my parents went around to the British Museum and actually saw the actual country we're in. But obviously it attached itself to my brain, because that character that Peter Cook did, E.L. Wiste, this deranged polymath, is the same character I've been doing for my entire adult

career. And it was years later, even still, that I realized that the villain in the series of Whitbread Best Bidders ads that I watched all the time, to the point that I can still sort of hum the jingle, was Stephen Fry. I didn't know that until I read Stephen Fry's most recent memoir last year. This stuff is deep inside of me. And even more, Colm, after several days, I actually went outside into the country. Not into the country, into the city of London. And not into the city of London, London. And then I also went to the city of London, which is different. That's how much I know about this. City of London is the financial district.

I would go back there. I just spent this morning telling Wyatt Cenac all the places that he should go in London because I love it so much and I've been all through the Peak District and into Scotland and I've been to the Isle of Skye and I love it.

I love it. You don't have to win me over. You just need to explain some of the passion that you feel in order for me to understand why it's not merely important that you visit this place, but that you go and, for a period of time, spend a lot of money to make a life and education for yourself there. You feel me now? I feel you. Yeah, that's a British saying. You feel me, Governor?

I feel you, Governor. All right. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join.

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Why go to university there instead of visit? Visit as in study abroad? Or visit as in go on a brief trip? Well, I mean, here's the thing. You want to go to the university of Edinburgh because it is cost effective, uh, because it has a great English program and because it hosts, and because the city of Edinburgh hosts the Edinburgh festival and the Edinburgh fringe festival. Um, and, but what I'm really feeling is that you really want to be a part of that, of that fringe festival. Why not save up some money and go this August to the, to the festival and just, and just blow your mind and see what it's like. Why commit to going to school there?

Well, as my brother actually mentioned before, airfare is not cheap. And the last time I have personally been on a plane, I was nine years old and going to Los Angeles. And I feel that going for a brief period of time by plane to Edinburgh to the French Festival would not be within the budget of my family economically. And that as well as studying abroad there for a year, if you would look at the evidence I submitted, the one year studying abroad at the University of Edinburgh costs, and this is converted from pounds, $22,447.80. I said that wrong, but you got the point. And that is actually not any significant amount less than one year's total tuition at the University of Edinburgh.

So, okay, let me – you sent in this evidence, and I want to talk about money because this is a real thing. So every first year tuition at University of Edinburgh, you quote $12,678.85 per semester. Yes. Every additional year of tuition, if you are an enrolled student is 11 000 okay and and then you quote one year studying abroad at university of edinburgh so if you were going to if you were going to a college here in the united states and then you decide to do a year abroad at edinburgh you'd have to pay the same amount so that's your argument for why you shouldn't do a study abroad program in edinburgh but it wouldn't be it wouldn't it. It wouldn't be any more economically advisable than going there

for all four years, at least as far as spending one year. I want to hear you out. And by point of comparison, you're making two comparisons. One is that a year studying abroad there would cost the same as just going there as a student. Yes. Per year, per annum. per annum horribilis. And then two, you make a comparison to the tuition at Cornell University, an Ivy League institution in upstate New York, that a year or a semester at Cornell is $23,525 currently.

And that's only going up, right? So it's, in fact, going to Edinburgh, you make the argument would be less expensive to you, correct? Correct. Than going to Cornell, right? Am I reading all of your facts and figures correctly? Yes. All right.

And how much would it cost for you to go to the University of Wisconsin at Madison? Will, you know, obviously, because you obviously went there and you continue to live there because you love Wisconsin and you love Madison. And why not? They're great. Yes, I can tell you the cost. That would be per semester about under $5,000. That's much less than going to Edinburgh. And since your argument that it's more cost-effective

to enroll there for four years than to study abroad for one year is just, that's completely illogical. It's like saying it's more cost-effective, I don't know, to go. It's four times as expensive. That's what it is. All right. That's a fair point. I should have mentioned that I'm balancing that out experientially so it's cost effective.

Spending one year studying abroad is the same thing as a year there. I would like to attend the same university all four years. Here's what you should do. It's below everybody's mind you should go enroll the university of edinburgh and then take a year off to go study in wisconsin yeah

switch to the tables yeah reverse a reverse school abroad and when you show up at the university of wisconsin you have to talk with an accent and convince all the boys and girls there that you're actually from scotland yeah you have to live in the brit and convince all the boys and girls there that you're actually from Scotland. Yeah, you have to live in the British student storm. Yeah. I think that that would probably get you murdered faster than calling Ireland the wrong Ireland. Really, is Wisconsin that touchy about people pretending to be from other countries and faking accents? Notorious around here. It's notorious around here.

It's an obnoxious affectation. That's the governor's new thing in Wisconsin. Will, how much of your objection to Callum's desire to study abroad is due to his obnoxious affectation? I don't think that he has any obnoxious affectations. I just meant that if he was. If anybody has come across as affectless, it is Callum. Very soft-spoken.

Yeah, he doesn't make any fronts, you know. He's not fronting. That's a British phrase, right? Yes, it is. So, yeah, I mean, like most people who are anglophilic or eukaryophilic, I suppose, tend to be insufferable weirdos who constantly are faking accents and constantly quoting Monty Python routines at length. routines at length. The most insufferable boobs that I've ever encountered in my collegiate life were those who could quote. It's one thing to be able to quote Monty Python sketches. It's another thing to force it upon other people. At my wife's college, Bryn Mawr, there was a whole table of young women who got together every day at lunch

in order to all talk in an Irish accent together. Gross. The worst. The worst. But I'm not getting this off of Callum at all. If Callum does go to college in Edinburgh, he could join the table of Scottish kids that fake American accents. I know.

He'd be the king. That's a good idea. He'd be the king of the fake American accents. The king of the bottom of the barrel, I think. Callum, when we're talking about price cost effectiveness, you understand that you're talking about not wanting to spend $1,500 on a trip to the UK or $2,000 on a trip to the UK for monetary reasons, but then deciding to spend $100,000 on four years of university there. Yes. there. Yes. Well, again, I'm balancing that out experientially because I feel I would

obviously get more out of four years of university than I would out of one week of attending the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. I'm saying that you haven't get... Look, if I bought a car recently and I went to the dealership and test drove it,

you know, it cost tens of thousands of dollars. So I wanted to check it out first. And the car I don't have to live in for the next four years of my life. Well, technically, I do. But that's a whole other story. Yeah, I think that we'll go ahead. You may respond to the bailiff. Okay. That's a good point, but I feel like I've done enough research into the university, and I don't feel like there would honestly be that much culture shock. We speak the same language, and we have really similar foundations to the culture.

Well, it's not all culture shock. Look, I grew up in San Francisco. I went to college 90 minutes away at the University of California at Santa Cruz, and I visited the campus first. But the problem is that visiting the campus of the University of Edinburgh costs a large, like a very huge amount of money. Not unlike attending that university. Let's talk about money for a second, because, Will, I have faith. I thought that you were bringing this case, that you were going to be an older brother who was upset and embarrassed by his younger brother's affectations. And that's clearly not what's going on. No, not exactly. So what do you care about what your younger brother does with what I think is technically his life?

It is technically his life, true. But I think as an older person with more experience, not that much older, not that much more experience, but some of each, I have a level of student debt that I would consider to be unpleasant, not the pleasant level of student debt. So I would definitely, given my experience with looking at how I'm going to have to pay

that back for the next 50,000 years of my life or whatever, that I would... Because there is a level of student debt that, you know, it's not too much, not too little. It's kind of like you get a good buzz off of it. Right. Pleasant people. Yeah. What did you study at the University of Madison? I majored in political science and religious studies. So it may be a hundred thousand years that you're paying off

this debt. Yeah. I mean, depending on the circumstances. And what are you doing with your life currently in Madison? Right now I'm between jobs. So I'm looking for a job. I had an interview this morning actually but what are you going to do with your life i'm trying to figure that out currently do you have any goals whatsoever um yeah i i do uh i in the future i'm thinking about going to graduate school for uh uh humanputer interaction, working with computers, that sort of thing. I've heard that computers are a good way to go. Yeah, especially the way they interact with humans.

There's something about that crazy relationship that just always makes people excited. Remember when that legendary Scotty picked up that mouse in Star Trek four and he's like, hello, computer, computer. I know, but by the way, we,

we just, we just went to the bottom of the class in our Scottish accent. Callum could do a pretty good Scott. Can you do it? Can you do Scotty saying computer into the, into the computer mouse from Star Trek? I could read the spot. Callum.

I don't have much experience with Scotty. I've watched a fairly small amount from Star Trek 3? I could try. I don't have much experience with Scotty. I've watched a fairly small amount of Star Trek. If I were impersonating Scotty saying the word computer, I would do it... Hold on. Saying the word computer into the bottom of a mouse. Into the bottom of a

mouse. Alright, I'll have to... Let me get into character for that. Computer. Alright right that's yeah that's my impression that's what i've got you'll fit right in could you perform that at the fringe let's get down to brass tacks uh callum who's footing the bills for your college education? Well, there are scholarships available at the University of Edinburgh. There is an $8,314 scholarship through the Principals in North America Undergraduate Scholarship Program, five of which are awarded to full-time American students per year. And there is a $3,325.60 scholarship through the Edinburgh Global Undergraduate Scholarship.

So if you got both of those, are those repeating scholarships or one-time scholarships? That was ambiguous. I would assume you could apply for them again. I bet it's not ambiguous to them. It is ambiguous to me. I think they think they're being pretty clear. I bet it's not ambiguous to them. It is ambiguous to me. I think they think they're being pretty clear. It may be that you're not aware of it. But what we're talking about essentially is that if you got both of those scholarships,

one of which is awarded to only five students from the United States per year, you would end up making about one semester's worth of tuition. And the balance would have to be paid by someone. Who's going to pay for it? I would probably take loans. I looked at that you'd take direct loans from the United States government if you're an American student studying full-time at the University of Edinburgh. All right. I appreciate that you've done some homework

but one way or another if if you go to the university of edinburgh you are planning to make your own way either by getting scholarships or getting scholarships and combining them with loans that you take from barack obama personally yes and that you would not pass this burden on to your family. Are your parents alive? Yes. And have they saved money for your college education? Are you going to take any of that money? Yeah, there's an amount of money set aside. It's obviously not enough to cover the entire thing. But I would do that.

I would use that money, and I uh, take out loans and work to pay off the remainder of my debt. You've come up with a lot of facts and figures and you certainly have read and, and seen some TV shows. You've read some books and seen some TV shows, but what possible, what, what is the compelling reason for not visiting the place that you're considering spending the entire rest of your life is it expense it's pretty much expense I would like to I would I'm not opposed to visiting I'm bro

personally but I doubt it's something that would like happen you know that you have to buy a plane ticket to get there to go to college right yeah but I figure if I'm going there that's pretty much... If you guys are talking, I can't hear you anymore. Um...

Okay, there, I got something. That was an um. Can you hear this? Sorry, Mark McConville. So where I last heard was Jesse Thorne saying, you know you have to buy a plane ticket and then something else. So can we pick it up from there? Okay, I'm going to say that again. know, you have to buy a plane ticket and then something else. So can we pick it up from there? I'm going to say that again.

Yeah. You know, you have to buy a plane ticket in order to go to college there, right? Yes, that's true. But I would assume that if I was attending college there, a plane ticket would be something that would, like, it's a necessity as opposed to something that isn't. So it would be provided to you by the universe? No, it would be provided by me to the universe. Just as long as you don't kickstart it.

Just as long as you don't kickstart it, I'm okay. No, I wouldn't do that. No, but I think, Jesse, his argument would be that if he goes tomorrow to Scotland for the rest of his life, the price of the ticket would be amortized over the rest of his life, the price of the ticket would be amortized over the rest of his life, as opposed to the 25 days he might spend at the Edinburgh Fringe,

which would be incredibly wasteful. Plus, he'd have to buy a ticket back. You see what I mean? No, because I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Yeah, I agree with Jesse. I agree with... You can visit somewhere and then later go to college

there. Yeah, but then you're paying twice as much to get there, Jesse. That's a good point. See, now you're making sense, Judge Hodgman. Don't you understand the math that Callum is doing here? Let's say he spends...

Gosh, I'm going to go on the outside, like $5,000, which is a lot of money, probably much more than you would need to get a steerage ticket to Edinburgh via aeroplane. to put yourself up in some place in a hostel or something in Edinburgh and go to see the fringe and spend the month of August there when he is doing nothing else anyway, because he is a student. But let's say it was $5,000. Don't you appreciate Jesse that that's $5,000 that he is just flushing down the toilet. Whereas if he spends $100,000 going to going to college there, toilet. Whereas if he spends a hundred thousand dollars going to going to college there, whether or not he likes it, that's more money. Wait, I don't understand it either. It's a cockamamie scheme. Cockamamie cockney scheme. Yes.

Callum, you're, you are about to become a legal adult. So essentially, if I find in your favor, all you could possibly ask is let me make my own decisions, correct? Yes. All right. Will, if I find in your favor, what would you want me to order Callum? Given the fact that I can't order him to do it, it's his life. He can do whatever he wants. Sure, sure. What I'm looking for is ordered him to carefully weigh the costs of whether or not

he's going to be able to actually spend his life in Scotland after graduating, which is not a given. There's a good chance he wouldn't. There's a good chance that he wouldn't like it as much as he thinks he would either, and would end up returning to the United States anyway. I think a good chance he wouldn't. There's a good chance that he wouldn't like it as much as he thinks he would either and would end up returning to the United States anyway. I think a good compromise is that he should travel there after he graduates college, or sorry, high school. He should travel there during the summer after he graduates high school and that he should study abroad there if he likes the trip there. And I think that doing it that way is a much more safe

and reasonable investment of money. And I think it would work out. I think that my parents would agree to that. And you're suggesting that they might pay for the cost of the trip? Yeah, I think there is a good chance that they would, or at least significantly help them out. Callum, do you have a job? I do not yet, but I was planning to apply for some because I just finished the musical that I was in during the school year. And so like a part-time job? Yes. Something like that. Do you have any savings of your own?

Not really much. Yeah, you have some savings. We both have some savings. I guess, yeah. But savings of money that you have earned and put into a bank account? Or savings that, like, a great-granduncle died and gave you a savings bond? That one, pretty much. Which one?

The second one. You murdered your granduncle? I murdered my granduncle. Yep. With the aid of my brother. Which, okay. All right. I think I've heard. I murdered my grand uncle. With the aid of my brother. Which, okay. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to. I am now going to take a 747 first class to my chambers. And I will run some numbers and consider some thoughts and we'll be back to you in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Callum, does your high school have a college club or some other similar organization that raises money through bake sales and such

to go on a college trip to various places where colleges are highly concentrated, like the American Northeast, and check them out, see what different campuses are like? Not that I'm aware of. It's possible, but I haven't heard anything of that, and I think I would have if there was. I think the closest thing that Burlington has is a group of guys that park their trucks close together and beep their horns at people that drive past.

That's basically what we've got. their horns at people that drive past. That's basically what we've got. I'm just so gobsmacked by this whole scheme. It's so ambitious and so under-considered, Callum. Look, my cousin is from New Jersey, went to the University of Edinburgh because, among other things, she could get dual citizenship if she went to the University of Edinburgh. And she loved it. And I've been to Edinburgh and it's a beautiful place.

But I wonder if you might benefit from just going somewhere that's not where you live before you go to an entire other country for four years. Okay, I can see your point, and that's something I would definitely consider. Will, how do you feel when you hear Callum spin out these cockamamie schemes? I just think that he's not taking all of his options into consideration. He's a very smart kid and could probably get into anywhere he wanted. I think he's underselling himself by saying he wouldn't get into Oxford. Yeah, I just know that when I was his age, there were—I don't know. You don't know everything when you're young. You don't know everything until how old are you, Will?

Well, 24. Yeah, so you're going to be at least 24 to know everything. I know maybe 24 things. I think you learn one thing a year. I'm up to 17. I think that's a pretty solid number of things that I know, 17. I know seven more than you do. Yeah, but I mean...

33%. But what things are they is the real question. Definitely things that you don't know about. Well, clearly. Clearly, yes. Your experience. Callum, here's my question to you. Bottom line.

Callum, here's my question to you, bottom line. When it's week 10 of you living in a cold, dreary, cobblestone-y country where everyone understands the world completely different from you and you don't have any yet, and you can't afford to fly home for Thanksgiving, will you still be happy with your decision to commit yourself to four years in a foreign country? Well, I already live in a cold and dreary place, and the cold and dreariness doesn't particularly bother me much here. Wisconsin's not dreary during the summer though. That's true. It's unforgivingly hot and humid. How about when you find out

that everybody is like Magnus from Rushmore? Yeah. That seems slightly unlikely to me, I guess. I can't imagine the entire country of Scotland being populated exclusively by people who are like Magnus from Rushmore. See, now you're thinking straight.

That's fair thinking. Well, boys, I can't decide this one for you. Only Judge John Hodgman can decide. We'll find out what he has to say when we come back in just a second. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman,

and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

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A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. You may be seated. So there is something in Callum that you want to admire and that you do admire. And by you, I mean all humans within the sound of my voice and me. Because Callum knows what he wants. And though he is having a hard time speaking passionately about it,

I don't doubt that he is passionate in his interest in going to Edinburgh, living in Edinburgh, his love for British comedy, and his interest to pursue some career in that realm. I know that he's passionate about it because he just consistently refuses to see the utter illogic in what he's proposing. And yet it's better, I think, and more appropriate to his age

than the sad state of his older brother, Will, who went to a great university, the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and studied political science and religious goo-gaws or something. What was it, religious studies? Yeah. Right.

And when I put to him, well, what do you want to do with your life? There's a long pause. And he just said, I'm between jobs. You know, your, your biggest ambition is eventually to go to graduate school. And so it is understandable that you would look at this mad scheme and think first of what its cost would be, both financially and emotionally, if it doesn't work out the you specifically, Will, you sound like a very smart guy, and I know things are going to work out, but you're in a situation that a lot of college graduates are in right now where they have invested a lot of time and a lot of money in the form of loans and personal savings and parental savings into a degree which is not serving them particularly well right now. Do I overstate the case, Will?

No, no, I totally agree with that. As Spike Milligan said on the Goon Show, it's hard out there for a college graduate these days. And so it is reasonable and rational, Will, for you to be skeptical and perhaps a little gun-shy on your brother's behalf about not merely the investment of money, but the investment of life that he is rather casually thinking of making by moving to Edinburgh and paying for an expensive university there, having never been there once before in his life, for four years, and, to hear Callum tell it, probably for the rest of his life.

How he would manage to stay in the United Kingdom legally, beyond university, remains to be seen. He would have to find some man or woman to marry, I think, or become such a huge talent that a UK production company would hire him. They would have to prove to the government that he is irreplaceable talent and that no UK citizen is available or comparable to the talent that he can give. It's a huge undertaking to work in another country longer than a student visa would allow. He has to go head to head against each citizen to prove that right i know it's it's an amazing it's it's an incredible thing it happens in september in edinburgh i believe where where people who are applying foreign nationals who are applying for jobs in the arts

uh fight every citizen of the uk it's a weird month. That's another one of their festivals, you know? Yeah. And you know what? And you know what? Callum will lose in a fight because some of those people are Scottish and some of those people are Magnus from Rushmore. Callum sits there and goes, yeah, well, I'm sure that they're not all Magnus from Rushmore. And guess what? You're right. But a lot of them are. And what do you know? You've never been there. You know, you are not in a position to say what the Scottish people are or are not like, or what the citizens

of Edinburgh are or are not like. You've never been there. And the thing is, Callum, you are, you're taking the right steps. You're trying to approach this rationally. You're trying to price it out. You're trying to figure out how it compares to schooling in other states of the United States. the lifetime of happiness that you will lead in Edinburgh, a place that you've never been. You're trying to justify this particular jaunt within the context of a desire to work within the field of comedy in some way. And all of that feels rational to you. And it's not your fault that you're doing the math all wrong because you're 17 and it's not your fault that you're doing the math all wrong. Because you're 17.

And it's not your money. And you want what you want. You want to go there. You want to go there. And I don't blame you. You should go. You absolutely should go. I understand there's something crazy admirable about your all or nothing position. But there is such a thing as some.

And sometimes investing money, even a good chunk of change, maybe more money than you think is reasonable to spend on a thing like a, what you call vacation, right? Uh, it is actually a better investment than investing a lot more money in something that seems more practical, right? If you're making a choice now, I ran these numbers just going off of what I could figure out. And I bet there are a lot of ways you could cut corners here. You could go Airbnb for the month of August in Edinburgh, the entire month, the whole length of the fringe, from the 1st to the 21st for $2,100 on Airbnb. on Airbnb, and you can get over there from Chicago, which I think is probably your best bet, to Edinburgh. Economy, not small money, but that's $1,300. So 13 plus 21 is $3,400. So I wasn't that far off, right?

Then it's expensive over there, and you're going to need to eat and drink and so on And you're going to be there for three weeks So let's say, just to give yourself some breathing room You spend $5,000 on a month at the Edinburgh Fringe A thing that you have read about and heard about And dreamed about but have never seen That $5,000 investment in seeing that thing is not throwing money out the window. Rather, it is a chance to immerse yourself in a culture that

you're interested in, that you're thinking about making a life in, that you get to see with real eyes what it is like in Edinburgh and what the fringe is, it would still be valuable to spend that $5,000 because of all of the people that you would meet there and all of the people that you would, that you would interact with and all the acts that you would see. And you wouldn't be quoting to me the names of your favorite comedians from, you know, the fringe from five, 10, 15, 25, 35 years ago, you would be witnessing the comedians who are going to be important on the world stage 5, 10, 15, 25 years from now. And when you want to pursue a career in the arts, the number one thing to do is first of

all, go to the place where it's happening. Go into the place where it's being made. Go to the place where the people who are going to inspire you and challenge you, who are your peers, who are your same age, are going to become your colleagues and your rivals and your bitter enemies and your best friends and your nemeses. You know, I started out wanting to be a writer of short stories. best friends and your nemeses. You know, I started out wanting to be a writer of short stories. And I am very glad that I did not end up going to get a graduate degree in short story writing. Because there's, there's so little money in short story writing to begin with, I didn't

realize that what you're really paying for when you get an MFA is simply the chance to be around people who are also working on the thing that you like to work on to get their feedback, to maybe kiss them sloppily once or twice, and to hear from professors who are really embittered and maybe brilliant. But that's a huge investment of money to spend just working in the field that you want to work in around people who are working in it when you could just, for example, go and live and get a job in New York, where people are also writing short stories. And particularly if you want to be involved in comedy, all you need to do for your purpose, the most practical thing you can do for the purpose of your career is to go

to a place where they're making comedy. Edinburgh in August is not a place where they're making comedy. That's a place where they are showing comedy. But because you are so interested in Edinburgh, in the city, and you're thinking about making a life for yourself there, and you're interested in comedy, to me, that five grand, that's an easy sell to any adult who has children. It's an easy sell. And if I were your mom or dad, and I had the means to fund part of that, I would do it. Because the alternative is that you spend $100,000 in debt going to a school that you have no idea if it's right for you or not, in a place that you don't even know if you like it or not. You have the right idea in the sense that the point of college is not to go insulate yourself in some kind of half baked summer camp and at a keg party for four years, having a great time and then coming out

of it going, well, what am I going to do? The point of college is to get away from home and see the world. And in many ways, college isn't worth it. College isn't worth the money of going out into the world and making an investment in travel and cultural exposure and work, hard work, particularly if it's in a field that there really is no degree that will guarantee you a job and that means the arts and before all you tell me that i'm telling your kids not to go to college i'm not saying that but after reading the cover story in the atlantic uh this month by clayton flanagan about fraternities i definitely think it's worth i am having second thoughts about

how much college is worth these days think of it like your plane ticket to Edinburgh it's just the cost of doing business for a person who feels a compulsion to do a thing going and actually doing the thing rather than coming up with some weird spreadsheet that will kind of get you over there under the auspices of a respectable English degree in order for you to go to the fringe when you wouldn't even be in college anyway, forget it. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't go the long way around.

Figure out what it is you want to do and do it. And I also think that you shouldn't ask your mom and dad for the money. I think you should at least try to come up with as much of that five grand as it would take before August and then go to them and say, can you give me the rest? Try to come up with as much of that five grand as it would take before August. And then go to them and say, can you give me the rest?

Or can you give me, and ideally maybe the rest would be zero. I don't know what they're paying at the Papa John's Pizza in Wisconsin these days or whatever. Maybe it's got to be for next August, the August after your senior year. Maybe you want to take a year off to figure out what you want to do before you even apply to college. I think you're right to be thinking about what you want to be doing. And I think you're right to be thinking about the money. But I think that truthfully, investing in a little bit of real world experience for yourself

in the area that you are most interested in is a much more solid investment than committing to four years of tuition at a university in a city that you've never been and plan to never see, apparently, even before you go. And believe me, if you go to Edinburgh and love it as much as you think you are going to love it, and you decide that you were right all along and you do want to go to college there, that five grand that you spent that summer before you went, forget it. That's a drop in the bucket of money

that you will happily owe for the rest of your life because you made the right decision. But if you go there and you made the wrong decision, then you just got to start all over again. So even though it is none of my business and you will be a legal adult and you can do whatever you want, and certainly none of your older brother's dumb business,

I am going to find in his favor, I order you to go to the place you're thinking about going to college, wherever it may be, before you sign up to go to college there. You know, my transition from being an Anglophile to being a real human being was when I stepped out of that apartment where I'd been watching Peter Cook and Stephen Fry television advertisements all that time when I got better and got over my head cold and went out into London and saw the place for itself.

I love it. I love London. I thought about going to college there, but I decided not to because ultimately I realized that if I want to be a writer and creative person, I have to be authentic to the world that I am actually from and not put on the guise of a fantasy world that doesn't really exist. That's just a real place where people live. That's all it is. It's not better. And so I decided to come back home. And when I realized when I heard that Yale College was constructed by burying huge swaths of the roof under the earth for 25 years to age it to look like Oxford, I'm like, this like, this is a place of artifice that I can understand. So I will not judge you if you decide to go and become a Scotsman or a UK denizen or a Maltese person for the rest of your life. Some people are just born to be expatriates.

tease person for the rest of your life. Some people are just born to be expatriates. But I would say that you got to get out to the place where you want to be to really make sure that that's what you want to do and to fuel your passion for it further if that's the case. I find in favor of the older rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom. Callum, how do you feel? I feel really good about the order, actually. I think a lot of great points were raised against me, which is always a good thing to hear logical arguments about what you irrationally believe. And I think that Judge John Hodgman made an excellent and very fair verdict. Will, how do you feel?

I feel that that's a good decision and some good guidance, you know, both something to think about for Callum and myself, to be honest. Callum, you think you might stop in London? Well, if I'm in the UK, probably something along those lines. You can catch a train, right? You can just catch a train down. Yeah. You can just walk there, right? It's like 15 minutes. 15 to 20.

I would say probably 20 minutes. Brits are always walking around with their fancy canes too, right? I don't think either of you guys has a really sophisticated understanding of the situation on the ground. Callum, Will, we wish you the best of luck. Thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, guys. Yeah, you should fly to London and take a train. You'd have a great time. Man, that train is great. I've ridden that train. It was a blast.

And here's the other thing, Callum. Yeah? Are you still there? When you go. Yes. When you go to Scotland, when you go, make sure you spend some time or you break off some time so that you can go a few hours outside of Edinburgh to Loch Ness. You may have heard of it from the monster. Yeah. Benleva Hotel and drink some of its proprietary Loch Ness Brewery brewed beer, brewed with care and consideration by Stephen Crossland, the proprietor of the Benleva Hotel in Scotland.

That, I think, is a life worth living. You will just want to work there for the rest of your life, and I bet you he'd let you do it. You're going to have a great time, but you just got to get there. Get there first and enjoy it and then come back and go, is this where I want to spend the rest of my life? Okay. Okay? That's all I can say. Cool, cool?

Cool, cool. All right. Cool, cool. Cool, cool. Pip, pip, cheerio. Oh, hey, Jesse, I didn't see you there. Yeah, I was here to clear the docket, but I'm really enjoying this concert. Yeah, I was just, you know, you know how I'm always working on a new national anthem for Scotland?

Yeah, I do. I've noticed that. That's like one of your favorite hobbies. Yeah, they don't think they need one, but I'm always working on a new national anthem for Scotland? Yeah, I do. I've noticed that. That's like one of your favorite hobbies. Yeah, they don't think they need one, but I'm pretty sure they do. Yeah. What's that one called? Something about thistles? Oh, Scotland, land of thistles and haggis and the other thing. Loch Ness Monster.

Loch Ness Monster. Ben, leave a hotel. Boy, oh boy. Here is a case from Richard. In a recent conversation with my friend Hector, who's from London, we discussed the show QI, which we both love. Me too. I think. Hey, me too.

Hey, everybody loves the show QI, or Quite Interesting, British panel show. I think an American version should be created, and the best host would be Steve Martin, because of his wit, intelligence, and his wide berth of experience in art, film, and banjo. However, Hector immediately dismissed the idea because, A, Stephen Fry, the host of the British QI, is a national treasure in England, much more so than Steve Martin in America. And B, he suggested that Americans had an inherent dislike of intelligent artists and intelligent people in general, citing that in most American stories, the hero is the scrappy underdog with street smarts rather than book smarts.

I would like to request a ruling on the following. A, would Steve Martin be a suitable substitute for Stephen Fry in a hypothetical American version of QI? And if not, who would be some of your recommendations? And B. Do Americans have an inherent distrust of intelligent people? As someone who appeared on the Wonderfully Witty QI yourself, I would love to hear your verdict on the issue. I did appear on the Wonderfully Witty QI in the year 2009 in their G-Animals episode. That is to say giraffes, gulls, and other G-Animals that I can't think of now. Gophers, I suppose. You sure are witty and wonderful

with that ready list of G-Animals. Well, that basically represents my entire appearance on G-I. I'm basically being Flummoxed G-I. I actually was lucky enough to appear on GI, which is a stage presentation at gastrointestinal doctors' conferences. Yeah, Americans are much more interested in that, I think. It does sort of, though, embody my appearance on QI, which was mostly speechless and flummoxed by the quickness of the panelists

and the charm of Stephen Fry. The reality is that there is no other host of QI and there shall never be. And nor should there be. Stephen Fry is such a marvelous host of QI, and it would be beloved as the host of an American version if there were such a one. Nothing against Steve Martin. Hector is wrong on both points. I would say that Steve Martin is a national treasure of comedy and culture in the United States. Steve Martin is a national treasure of comedy and culture in the United States.

And clearly Americans do not have an inherent dislike of intelligent artists because Steve Martin is super duper intelligent. And he is liked, so liked that he's liked even when he's doing his dumb stuff. So Hector is wrong on both A and B. but the overall effect is that he's absolutely right, that there would be no reason for Steve Martin to host a QI when Stephen Fry is alive and, I think, inclined to do it. The real problem is that most television networks believe that American humans would not like QI because it is not dumb enough. And that, I think, is the gross criminality of most network programming, is that it's underestimation of viewers. What do you think, Jesse? Oh, boy. You know, I think you're absolutely right that it would be pretty much impossible to top Stephen Fry as the host of that program. And honestly, I think Steve Martin would be a poor choice as host of that program.

while he is one of our most intelligent comedians and every bit as beloved, if not more beloved than Stephen Fry, he lacks a certain conviviality. Yeah. Stephen Fry likes human beings. Yes, exactly. I think that's one of the things that makes him such a great, without any further comment, let's just say the fact that stephen fry actually likes human beings or is willing to pretend as much when necessary makes him a very good host for that show would it be possible to do an american version of qi where the panelists were two magic tricks and two banjos yes that would that would work i think that an american qi wouldn't work without stephen fry too

because um all the the very britishness of stephen fry would make it interesting uh in a way that having an american it would just be a a dumb quiz show and it would just sort of fall by by the wayside you have one of the greatest talents in the world who also happens to bring a very British quality to the show. I think that's what would make it interesting. Otherwise, I think it would just lose in the translation. The only person I can think of off the top of my head, besides, of course, my friend John Hodgman, who would be an American suitable talent-wise, if not reputation-wise, to do a job like this would be our mutual friend, Paul F. Tompkins. Paul F. Tompkins would do a wonderful job.

Paul F. Tompkins needs his own TV show and I believe is shooting a pilot for his own TV show. He currently has his own TV show on. You know what, Jesse? I stand corrected. He already has a show of his own. Does he not? He does. It's called No, You Shut Up.

And it's on the Fusion Network. In which he debates issues of the day with puppets from the Henson Workshop. Yeah, I forgive you for not knowing that right off the top of your head, Judge Hodgman. It's targeted at millennials. It also was created by my old friend David D.J. Javerbaum, former executive producer of The Daily Show, current tweeter as God on at the tweet of God. There's no dot com there.

It's a Twitter handle. Very funny guy. Here's a case from Karen. My husband Diego is originally from Colombia. We've been married for four years. For more than a year, My husband Diego is originally from Colombia. We've been married for four years. For more than a year, Diego has been performing magic tricks everywhere we go. His number one trick is a flaming wallet.

It doesn't matter where we are, paying for our groceries in an elevator full of people and a friendly conversation with police. Diego will take out his wallet and act like he's going to pay for something or get a business card. Instead, he will use the sparking mechanism hidden inside the wallet to set the wallet on fire. The people often react in a startled fashion, although most do end up laughing. A small number don't seem to find it that funny. The amazing thing is that many people warm up to this trick and want him to do it again. The dispute lies in the fact that, as his wife, I have to see this trick just about every day.

I have to hear him set up the trick with his verbal patter and charming Colombian accent. There are many tricks he does over and over. They're new to most people, but I'm watching them for the thousandth time. Judge Hodgman, I know it's too much to ask Diego to stop something that gives him and most of the people he springs this on a lot of pleasure. I'm asking that you award me damages for always having to be in the background while he basks in the spotlight. I ask that he clean up a considerable mess in our apartment. When we first moved in together, he moved mountains of clothing and stuff from an old storage space into our apartment and has done very little to get rid of or

organize anything. Will you order him to clean it up? If I must watch these tricks for the millionth time? Absolutely so ordered. He should be cleaning up that mess regardless of his propensity for tricking people.

And I will go further. I will order him to take it easy on the burning wallet trick because that's not a magic trick. That is just, that's a gimmick. Ask Diego how he would feel if he were standing in an elevator and someone opened up to speak of Paul F. Tompkins, a can of peanut brittle, the most common snack in the world, and shot a couple of snakes at him, he would be annoyed by it.

And the people would be annoyed by it. I'm sure he does a great patter. But all he's doing is he's not doing some close-up card tricks or anything. He's just doing a fake fire thing. Easy does it, buddy. Someday you're going to get punched. So I absolutely order him to take it down a thousand with the flaming wallet trick.

And the way for him to do that is to simply not do it in front of you and clean up his mess and prepare to be the Alan Davies on the Steve Martin, all magic and banjo version of QI. And by the way, go by Paul F. Tompkins is album impersonal to catch the reference I made to the peanut

brittle snakes in a can peanut brittle gag, which is still of the many, many Paul F. Tompkins things that I've heard. It is up there with the one-legged Tarzan sketch by Peter Cook and Dudley Moore has been one of the funniest things I've ever heard in my life. As good as it gets. This week's show was named by Sarah Green.

Our producer is Julia Smith. Our editor is Mark McConville. Thanks to all of them. Thanks guys. Now, normally Jesse, by Sarah Green. Our producer is Julia Smith. Our editor is Mark McConville. Thanks to all of them. Thanks, guys. Now, normally, Jesse, this would be the part of the podcast where I try to sell all you people on my live appearances

by going to johnhodgman.com slash tour. But we have a more important thing to talk about now. Yeah, that's the Max Fund Drive. Hashtag it. Max Fund Drive. Hashtag MaxFunDrive. Hashtag it. MaxFunDrive. Hashtag MaxFunDrive. Did I hashtag it by saying that?

I think so. Okay, good. Once a year, we do this for 11 days this year, March 17th through March 28th. We try and do it in a fun way. We goof around. We have all kinds of silly stuff. Me and Jordan are doing a live Jordan Jesse Go on the 28th that you can watch for free online at MaximumFun.org. The reason that we do it on the show is because we know that if you're listening, you care. You care enough to have gone into your iTunes or your Stitcher or your other podcatcher and clicked on subscribe. We know that you're listening when you don't have to be when we're doing a pledge break.

We know that you give a hoot, and we want to ask you directly, if you do give a hoot, give us a couple bucks for the show. Exactly. All we're asking is a hoot plus $5 a month. Or a hoot plus $10 a month. a hoot plus $10 a month. Or if you can afford more, more, it starts with a hoot and then is a very reasonable monthly donation to make you a member of maximum fund.org to support the shows that you love and to continue to hear them so that we don't have to turn the lights off.

Exactly. We're, we're really proud of sharing this show with you, and we're really proud that it's supported by folks like you. But we need your help personally. So go to MaximumFun.org slash donate now and just take care of business. Get up off your duff. Take care of business. TCB, folks.

TCB. And our sincere and heartfelt thanks to the literally thousands of people who support MaximumFun.org through donations. It is such an honor to be making this show for you. And I know I feel grateful for it every single day of my life. You know, Jesse, I just want to say, when I started doing this podcast, I didn't really appreciate how much it was going to come to mean to me. I wanted an opportunity to work with you, Jesse. I wanted an opportunity to speak directly to an audience in a way that podcasts can.

And I wanted an opportunity to speak in my own voice and not do a phony resident expert voice or be beholden to write another list of 700 hobo names every year. I love doing those things, but I also like just talking to people. And the people that I've been talking to over the past three years are some of the most amazing and interesting and funny and lovely people that I've had the chance to never meet, but speak to via internet. They're voices that you don't hear anywhere else that I don't hear anywhere else. And the appreciation that I've felt from people as I've traveled around the country doing shows for this podcast has been really one of the most meaningful things in my creative life. And I'm not saying this in order to make you feel

as weepy as I do, but in order to say, I want to keep doing it. Your appreciation of it is enough for me, but it won't keep the lights on here. So if you have the opportunity to give back whatever you think the show is worth to you, it would mean a lot. That's all I have to say about that. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash donate. I can't even say it. I'm choked up. I'll say it for you, Judge. MaximumFun.org slash donate. And I couldn't have

said it better myself. We'll talk to you guys next week on the judge john hodgman podcast bye bye maximumfun.org comedy and culture artist owned listener supported