Judge John Hodgman - Gruel and Unusual Punishment

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

Aubrey files suit against her husband, Chris. Aubrey wants to continue a family Christmas Morning tradition involving Cream of Wheat, an almond, and luck. But, Chris, is opposed! Who's right? Who's wrong?Thank you to Twitter User @bradywiggins for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities: @JesseThorn & @Hodgman. Or keep track using the Twitter hashtag #JJHoCaseNames.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This week, gruel and unusual punishment. Aubrey files suit against her husband, Chris. When Aubrey was growing up, it was a tradition on Christmas morning to eat cream of wheat for breakfast. Aubrey's mother would hide an almond in the batch, and it was said that whoever ended up with the almond in their bowl had good luck for the next year. Aubrey wants to continue this Christmas tradition with her young family and Chris, but Chris is opposed. He says the tradition puts too much pressure on the almond recipient to do something special. Who's right? Who's wrong? Well, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Hi, I'm peanut butter. This is jelly. We just tried out for a new candy bar, but jelly didn't make it. Jelly, I won't go without you. But peanut butter, you must. You must go on and become a star. But peanut butter, you must. You must go on and become a star. I'll never forget you, Jelly. Never. I'll make them name the candy bar after you. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Aubrey and Chris, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? We do. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that were he to eat one of those New Orleans cakes, he would probably just swallow the baby Jesus? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. I didn't know that was supposed to be a baby Jesus.

It's not just in New Orleans. Many Catholic traditions involve eating a cake with the baby Jesus inside. You're talking about the king cake. The king cake. I thought, well, I guess that baby is our king, King Jesus. Yeah. Oh, well. I have a friend who's Guatemalan who was shocked that I don't eat a baby Jesus cake. I have always considered a baby Jesus cake, aka king cake, to be merely a choking hazard disguised as a cake. And that's what we're talking about today.

But before we go into your choking hazard, Aubrey and Chris, can either of you name the piece of popular culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Not just referenced, I quoted it directly. I changed no words. Chris, why don't you guess first? I have no idea. So I'm just going to go with my pre-prepared guess,

which is The Joy of Cooking by Mark Bittman. He didn't write The Joy of Cooking. Yeah, that's, wow, you really. Oh, how to cook everything. No, you already said Joy of Cooking. Joy of Cooking by Mark Bittman. The French Chef by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt. Yeah, let's.

Louisiana Cookery by Padma lakshmi yeah first of all shout out to irma s rombauer and marion rombauer becker for writing the joy of cooking the irma s in particular uh and then as far as how to cook everything goes you know what maybe you should try to do some things well rather than everything okay if you're going to write a cookbook. Now we just lost Mark Pittman. Okay, as a listener, sorry about that, Mark. Aubrey, who do you – what is your guess? I also have no idea, but it sounded like a strange TV commercial from the 70s. I'm going to go with that.

Wow. That's as specific as I can get. That is, hang on, let me write down The Joy of Cooking by Mark Bittman first. John, can you write down my guess? Oh, yeah, sure. It's Gordon Ramsay's Ramsay in 10 by Jacques Pepin. Oh, sure. Right, of course. All right, I've written down that guess. Jennifer Marmer, do you have a guess, a cookbook guess? Ramsey's Ramsey in 10 by Jacques Pepin. Oh, sure. Right.

Of course. All right. I've written down that guess. Jennifer Marmer, do you have a guess? A cookbook guess? Yeah. Barefoot Contessa at Home by Ree Drummond, the pioneer woman. Yeah, of course.

Great. All right. Those are all good guesses. And then we have some kind of weird television ad from the 70s. Does that represent your guess correctly, Aubrey? Perfect. All right. Well, I'm here to tell you that one guess is right.

And it's none of the cookbook ones. I'm not going to give it to you because you couldn't name the reference. Dang it. Did I get the decade correct? You got the decade correct. Wow. This was an ad. This was an ad that I discovered this morning.

And I was alive during this time. But for a candy bar or a snack bar, I don't know what you would even call it. It's peanut butter covered in chocolate. It's like a Reese's peanut butter. And the name of the candy bar was No Jelly. I think the full name of the candy bar was Peanut Butter with No Jelly. But No Jelly was the thing that you saw. And they did a series of ads featuring this couple who are dressed as like actors in the early 20th century who have been auditioning for this candy bar and Jelly didn't make the cut.

So Peanut Butter went on to become a star, named the candy bar after Jelly, No Jelly. Now I mentioned this because the No Jelly bar was the third and ultimately least popular of this small candy company based in New Haven, Connecticut called Peter Paul Candy Company. And their top two, still to this day, although they've been absorbed by Cadbury and now Hershey's, are Almond Joy and Mounds. Because sometimes you feel like a nut, and sometimes Chris doesn't ever feel like having a nut in his cream of wheat. So, Aubrey, you seek justice, correct? You have brought Chris to this court? I have. State the nature of your complaint, please.

So, this has been a beloved Christmas tradition in my family for at least as long as I can remember. The point of origin is contested amongst family members. But it's always been a very sweet moment on Christmas morning when my mom, as you said, Jessie makes a big pot of cream of wheat, dishes it up into however many bowls as there are people, and then serves them on a tray. And we all pick our bowls and enjoy some delicious cream of wheat while we all sort of sift through and see who got the almond. She has when family members have not been present, dish up an extra bowl to represent them. And if none of us get the almond, we know it's in that extra bowl.

Oh, that's unusual. That's interesting. But it does suggest that it's not random where this almond goes. Interesting. But it does suggest that it's not random where this almond goes. I mean, she does her best to not see which bowl the almond ends up in, and then she puts them all on a tray. Usually she places the tray in the middle and we select. Sometimes she's come around with the tray for us to select, but it is supposed to be random. Interesting.

Well, this sounds very cute, and yet you are here with a dispute. What is Chris's problem? Right. I don't want to speak for him. But generally speaking, when I've brought up this tradition and wanting to do it with our family, as we are now starting to think about what Christmas morning will look like for us and our kids, he has not been in favor. Chris, you don't like a big heaping bowl of cream of wheat on Christmas morning and the chance to choke on an almond for good luck? No, not particularly, Your Honor. Chris is all about malto meal. Yeah, are you more of a farina guy?

Well, I'm actually more of a cinnamon roll guy. That's the tradition in my family is to have cinnamon rolls on Christmas morning. Okay. guy. That's the tradition in my family is to have cinnamon rolls on Christmas morning. Well, okay. Now I don't happen to have a sweet tooth, but if it's an A or B comparison, cinnamon rolls win over cream of wheat. And I'm a cream of wheat lover. I mean, I really do like cream of wheat. But why can't it be both? Chris, why do you have to put the kibosh in the choke cereal? Well, so Aubrey's family is just, you know, larger, kind of more outgoing than mine. So I've always kind of felt kind of on the outside of the almond tradition, just kind of, you know, experiencing it from the periphery. Well, family's relatively small, she has a lot of

cousins in the area that they all get together around Christmas, and it's usually a big celebration, a bigger deal. And with my family, it's usually pretty small and not a whole lot attached to it. And the area in this case, you are in Orlando, Florida, is that correct? Correct. And is that where your family is, Aubrey? We're in Florida. Right. Both born and bred in Florida, not Orlando specifically. Right. So, Chris, but your family isn't as nearby geographically as Aubrey's is?

It's about, our families are about the same distance apart. You just see more, there are more of them and you see more of them. There are more of, right. Right. You're an outsider in your own family is what you're saying. I understand. Hey, do you know what one of my favorite episodes of Judge John Hodgman is besides this one? What's that, John? and there and i was setting up for a reveal later on that in fact nature does produce well there are a number of perfect cubes in nature one of which is uh crystals certain crystal formations are cubic but nature also produces a very strange cubic form which is uh wombat poop

wombat's poop cubes that's a great t-shirt by the way because that represent is such an incredible experience how right after that episode came out i i would constantly be getting emails saying uh but there you're wrong sir wombat's poop cubes and i knew that someone was writing to me before they even finished the episode because i didn't reveal the wombat's poop cubes until later in the episode and i could just write back to them and go, keep listening, pet ant. And then they would be like, well, I'm sorry, I didn't realize at the end. So I just want to get this out of the way quick because people are all writing letters. The tradition, Aubrey, is called Ries Allemande. And it is Danish in origin. And this is brought to our attention by listener Rob

in Madison, Wisconsin, who was recently judged to be wearing underwear outside. He called them sleep shorts, but they were Minions underwear because he knows it. He practices it. It's a Danish tradition and it's normally not cream of wheat. Traditionally, it's a rice pudding, Ries a la Monde. I don't know why it's French, French language name in Denmark, but it is. According to tradition, this hot rice pudding was eaten by the, I don't know how to pronounce this, but the Nisser, who are the Christmas goblins in Danish tradition. Oh, heck yeah. Yeah. And if you put out a bowl of rice pudding overnight and some of it is gone, that proves your house is full of goblins

that's why so many people flee their homes on christmas morning because a cat got into the rice pudding and they think their house is full of goblins so that there's this long tradition of danish people fleeing their homes on christmas morning and setting them on fire very tragic and then sometimes they put in a whole almond, and the person who gets the almond gets a little toy or a piece of marzipan pig is the other thing that I noticed here on Wikipedia. Yes. In preparation for this podcast, I did some digging within the family of why we started doing this,

and my mom found the book that she got the idea from, and it is by a Finnish author. I believe there are variations of that tradition throughout Scandinavia. And so she got it from that book and then adapted it. But this is an old family tradition because you are Scandinavian. Are you Danish? No. Oh, no.

No, they just, her mom just Googled what to do with excess marzipan pigs. No, this is cultural appropriation at its finest. But I was not aware of those origins. It's not a book that we continued reading, wherever she got this idea from. It just sort of became an adaptation within our family that we did that got separate from that tradition. And this would be called Santa Claus and His Elves

by Maori Kunas. Yes. This is Exhibit E in the evidence that you submitted, Aubrey, correct? Yes. And according to your mom, you can get a used copy at Abe's Books for $129.36. She did manage to find that she does still have our family copy in another location. She just wasn't able to access it at the time. That's a gold mine right there. A gold mine. Yeah. You're sitting on quite a pile of marzipan pigs.

Well, since we're in the evidence document, let's go through the evidence quickly. Exhibit A, submitted by Aubrey, stock image of how delicious a bowl of cream of wheat can be. And this does look like a delicious bowl of cream of wheat. But exhibit B is, of course, not a stock image. It's an actual photo of actual cream of wheat, and it doesn't look very good. No, that's the only picture we could find of an actual bowl of cream of wheat on Christmas morning for my family. I don't know why we've never taken a picture of the tray. Yeah, I would think that this is a thing that you would memorialize because it's such a long-running tradition.

How many generations does it go back? This is a point of contention, as I mentioned. I do not remember a Christmas morning where we didn't do it. Okay. In my memory, it's something we've done my whole life. My sister, who is eight and a half years older, seems to think that my mom just came up with the idea after she went to college and she was not involved in this tradition. I don't think that's true. I think her memory is wrong there. Okay. All right. Your sister feels that it is a tradition come

lately. Yes. But for you, it is a meaning. You identify it with Christmas morning. Absolutely. Regardless of how long my family's been doing it, it is incredibly meaningful to me. This is the difference, by the way, between older millennials and younger ones is older ones remember a world before there was cream of wheat with an almond in it. The classic difference. They got they only got that like in school, you know, like third or fourth grade. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The almond didn't come into the cream of wheat until the computer lab got an Apple IIe.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exhibit C, Aubrey in 2019 after finding the almond, period, pure joy. You do seem to be very happy in this photograph. And all these photos, of course, will be available at the show page at MaximumFun.org, as well as on our Instagram account at Judge John Hodgman. Describe how you're feeling in this photo and why this tradition is so meaningful to you, if not your dumb sister. You don't get the almond every year, you know? And so on the mornings when you get it, you feel just a little extra special.

You get a little spring in your step. I'm clearly very tired in that picture, but I am very happy. And did you have a good year in 2019? I did. We became parents that year. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Or 2020.

Sorry, Christmas 2019. So you get the luck the next year. In 2020, we became parents. You got lucky in 2020. The rest of us not so lucky. Yeah. Yeah. That also doesn't help my case.

This almond brought you a year of a year of joy but that almond brought us the rest of the globe a year of mounds yes i completely acknowledge that there is an element of suspension of disbelief with this tradition um i obviously don't logically think the almond bestows good luck. But I think a big part of Christmas is, you know, choosing to believe in magic just for a little while and having special moments with family. And that's what this tradition is to me. You believe in Christmas goblins, though, right? Completely. Okay, good.

Chris, look at this photo of Aubrey so happy to have gotten that almond. Why do you want to smack that bowl down onto the ground out of her hand and crush it with the boot of your joylessness? Well, I think that kind of brings me to the second part of my objection. And part of it is just the idea that being presented with the almond results in a year of good luck for that person. And for one part, you know, if this is something that we want to continue in our family, I don't really want to continue to perpetuate the idea of good luck and, um, that there's a, you know, superstition that if you get this almond,

then that you will have a good year. And, um, you know, also it'll make that person, you know, it could possibly make them feel more, um more obligated to do something awesome that year or accomplish something. Oh, put pressure on them. Put pressure on them. Okay. Internal pressure. Do you feel internal pressure to do something awesome if you get the almond? Have you ever gotten the almond?

Have you ever participated in this at all? I've participated since we've been together. How many times have you gotten the cream of wheat to begin with? Every time. Nine. Yeah. Nine years. Nine years.

And how many times have you gotten the almond? Once. And did you feel pressure to express your good luck with some kind of like win the lottery or cure cancer or something? Well, to provide some context, the year that I received the almond, I actually asked her parents for permission to marry her. So we were dating and I, yeah. Very conservative parents. Yeah. That's fine. The morning of I asked their permission and then I went and, you know, got Aubrey up and we got up and enjoyed cream of wheat. And so that morning, it was pretty obvious to me that her mom was kind of twirling the tray and arranging it in a way that the bowl with the almond in it that she knows was, you know, in my direction. You're saying the game is, she rigged the game. Yes, I think this is his main contention against the tradition.

Well, he also doesn't want your children to grow up with a sense of luck. Well, he's one of these Christmas rationalists. It's like that, Judge Hodgman, do you remember that deep thought, the Jack Handy deep thought about luck? No. I think it's children need encouragement. So if a kid gets an answer right,

tell him it was a lucky guess. That way he'll develop a good, lucky feeling. What was the one where it's like, if you see someone jumping off a building, you should try to catch them. It might be just a dummy. How does it go? If you fall off the Sears Tower, go real limp. Then maybe someone will try and catch you. Go real limp like a dummy. Maybe someone will try and catch you because, hey, free dummy. Oh my gosh, let's get a Congressional Medal of Freedom for Jack Handy. I agree with you.

Just hanging out in Taos, New Mexico. So Chris, your mother-in-law, or at that point, future mother-in-law, rigged the game. And you felt that you were being, this was not just a cute almond of joy. This was an almond of some kind of pressure. This was a message, like a fish wrapped in a newspaper or a horse head in your bed. She didn't put a horse head in your bed, did she? Like a fish wrapped in a newspaper or a horse head in your bed? She didn't put a horse head in your bed, did she? I think a fish wrapped in a newspaper just means you bought a fish from a fishmonger, doesn't it?

It means you sleep with the fishes. Oh, got it. And hey, free fish. What was the message you think she was sending to you? I didn't feel pressured. I could tell it was more of an encouragement. kind of a, you know, we're excited that you're going to propose. So, you know, I know you're going to have a good year next year. So it was, I think it was, it wasn't pressuring or anything. It was just more of an encouraging.

A gesture. It did concern me a little bit that Aubrey would be suspicious of me getting the almond, you know, when we had been talking about getting married. This was before you proposed. Yeah. Wow. I was already suspicious though, so. Wow. Okay. You were worried that he loved you?

Okay. I can see how, okay, now Chris I'm coming coming around i gotta say you've played this game very well because aubrey this is your mom interfering with the proposal she's not sending a message to chris she's sending a message to you coded inside information she's trading secrets uh yeah i did say that she's certainly she tries her hardest not to see where the almond ends up but sometimes i think it's a little unavoidable um are you maintaining that your mom didn't rig this game she rigged the game i think she rigged the game that year yeah yes i think she rigged the game that year. Yeah. Yes. I think she rigged the game that year. But I also, even if the game were rigged every year, I don't think that that ruins the magic of the tradition. I think it's a sweet idea that a mom who sort of knows what's coming up in her kids' lives or a parent who knows what's coming up in their kids' lives wants to throw a little magic their way.

I think that's sweet. Like he said, it was encouragement. So yes, it was rigged. But I don't see why that has to go against the tradition. Let's take a quick recess. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network. Boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft.

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but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Chris, what are your family traditions around Christmas? Cinnamon buns we talked about. How do you test for goblins? They just let the goblins run rampant.

It's not an issue. Yeah, we've left Christmas cookies out, you know, for the elves or goblins. But haven't really had anything special like that. One thing that is in the evidence is a picture of these Christmas balls that my grandmother and aunt made every year. And they kind of just, you know, something that occurred each year. And they give it to the family to kind of display on the tree. it to the family to kind of display on the tree. And I was going to guess that because you're such a Christmas rationalist, that the center of the holiday for you would be you giving a long lecture about how Christmas is not

actually a Christian holiday. And in fact, it's an ancient pagan holiday that was added a gloss of Christianity in order to foster conversions in the ancient world. It's true. Okay. But then you said, oh, but I got these Christmas balls. So I got to check out your Christmas balls for sure. Exhibits F and G.

I would like to note. Yeah. I would like to note that the pictures of those Christmas balls were submitted as evidence on my side of the case. Oh, okay. Well, talk to me about these balls. What are they? Describe what they are and say what their meaning are to Chris's family. And Chris, you just be silenced.

No, if he wants to explain what they are, they're meaningful to him, but I'll explain why I think they're an argument from my side of the case. Okay, then let's put a hold on you for a second, Aubrey. Chris, we've said Christmas balls a lot of times. People are already writing letters going, what are these Christmas balls? I'm getting them already. Explain what they are. Explain what they're meaningful to you. And then, Aubrey, you explain why Chris is wrong and it really should be meaningful to you or whatever you're going to say.

So my aunt and grandmother make them. My grandmother, before she passed away, would make them. My mom now helps out. make them. My grandmother, before she passed away, would make them. My mom now helps out. My aunt does a counted cross-stitch pattern for something that happened during the year. Like in the evidence, they submitted the ball for 2020, featured a mask. And it says, thou shalt wear a mask. Yep.

Right. There have been Christmas balls that featured hurricanes that we survived. So things that, you know, things that we remember throughout the year. These are like needlepoint little designs. This one says, thou shalt wear a mask, controversial point of view in Florida. Yeah. Then there's a fabric kind of folded around the design. Right. And you wrap them around like a styrofoam ball or something that you get at the craft store? I've never actually seen that, but probably. You've never seen the inside of a Christmas ball? Yes, I can confirm that's how they're made.

Okay. Got to get into one of these. Got to tell you. How many Christmas balls do you have here? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. There's a new one every year? Yes. I bet you right now inside one of those Christmas balls, there's an almond.

You should crack them all open. So what does this tradition mean to you, Chris? I mean, it's just kind of a memory of the things that we've gone through as a family. Like on the balls, too, there's initials for family members that got married that year. Right. initials for family members that got married that year. So the F and G or the H and G on the ball, I think that you're seeing for 2019. That's when Hunter and Gather got married.

Yeah. Yeah. That was a big year. And so it's just kind of a time to think back on the previous year. And, you know, every Christmas, my mom has a lot more of them. We'll go through and look at them from the 90s or the 2000s and kind of reminisce on the past. I'm going to give you a specific prompt that I should have given you at the beginning. Not this open-ended, why is this tradition nice? Because it's a nice tradition. I get it. Why is this tradition better than the almond and cream of wheat? So much so that the almond and cream of wheat should be banned. than the almond and cream of wheat. So much so that the almond and cream of wheat should be banned.

Well, I mean, it's more subjective. It's because it means something to me. And, you know, the almond and the cream of wheat doesn't really mean anything to me. This is something that I've grown up with and remember. This speaks to why I submitted these Christmas ornaments on my side of the argument. Well, this would be a great time for you to talk. You know how to do this. Let's go. So, the reason why I was submitted on my end of things is because

these Christmas ornaments are a great example of a beloved family tradition of Chris's that I wholeheartedly support. These ornaments, you know, objectively are not the most attractive or trendy of ornaments that are out there.

I genuinely love them, though, because they mean something to him and his family. And this is a tradition that goes way back, potentially longer than the almond. You hear that, Chris? It's certainly not a... Chris, your Christmas balls are not trendy. They're not hip and stylish like all other Christmas ornaments. Right. Trendy was probably the wrong word.

Like that pickle and that TARDIS that we have, that golden TARDIS and that shiny pickle, and then the handmade junk. So you're saying you like the Christmas balls. You're not trying to erase the Christmas balls. Correct. I genuinely love them. You send in these pictures of Christmas balls to prove that you're a good person. Yeah.

It's a virtue signal. I got you. No, it's just to show we can support each other's traditions. And because that tradition means something to him, it means something to me. Well, and the other part of this tradition is that there's no mystical attachment of luck or superstition to it. Wait a minute, Chris. Are you really upset about this luck and superstition thing? Is this true?

I believe that it's important to understand that, you know, accomplishments are a result of hard work or of something that you've worked hard to do and accomplish, not because of luck or, you know, where you just happen to be in the right place at the right time. I see. Okay. Christmas magic at its finest. So you have a family now. How are you, this is always hard for a young family in terms of sharing holidays with extended family, whatever the holiday might be. Yes. So where do you, let's just, we're talking about Christmas today. Where do you do Christmas

morning now that you have a little family and when do you see the other people of your family? Well, that's what we're trying to figure out. We're trying to imagine future Christmases. What is our Christmas morning when we do finally say, you know, we're going to stay at our house for Christmas? What is that going to look like? You're talking about in 30 years when you finally say, I'm not going over to your house, mom. Yeah, with family all within driving distance, it's hard to say who gets what holiday. But generally speaking, we'll spend actual Christmas Day with Chris's family.

But we always will have a morning at our house, not on December 25th, where we pretend it's Christmas morning. And we exchange our gifts and have a bit of family time just at our house, not on December 25th, where we pretend it's Christmas morning and that we exchange our gifts and have a bit of family time just at our house. I should say that because we're teleconferencing, you very thoughtfully went inside your closet to record this because it's better audio there. Because it's closed behind you, dampen the sound and it sounds better on mic. And I just, when you say we do a fake Paniwani Christmas morning together where we pretend it is Christmas, I just imagine the two of you in that closet. One of you is giving one the brush and the other one is giving the watch chain or whatever. And you're hiding it from your family.

So Christmas Day, you normally go to Chris's family. You don't alternate? We generally do Thanksgiving with my family and Christmas morning with his family. And then you go see your family, Aubrey, later in the day on Christmas? No, not generally the same day. Some other time around Christmas. I'm hearing yes from Chris. It's never the same day.

It's never the same day? But then when we do go to my family, we, again, we spend the night and then that morning pretend it's Christmas morning. So we have multiple Christmas mornings. It's all made up, you know. It's all made up. It's not, it's a made up So we have multiple Christmas mornings. It's all made up, you know. It's all made up. It's not. It's a made up holiday. No, I agree.

So why can't you have more than one if it's all made up? Oh, OK, cool. You're the one out here pitching Christmas magic. I'm here saying it's just made up. Even if you're a person of faith and you believe in our Lord Jesus who was born from a cake or whatever. He probably was not born from a cake on December 25th. That date is arbitrary. It's to match Saturnalia. There we go. Now I'm having Christmas, Chris style. Okay. All right. We're all on the same page about this holiday. And so when you spend the night over at your mom's house with

your extended family, that's when this cream of wheat gets trotted out in the morning? Yes. Whatever morning we are celebrating Christmas with that family is when the cream of wheat happens. Chris, would it be acceptable? So are you trying to ban it from their house or you just don't want to have it in your house? No. Yeah. I'm just trying to keep it from banning it from our house or from from our you know uh celebration

you're concerned about cream of wheat creep it's going to creep into your tradition right do you have any new tradition that you want to pitch that's just your family chris um yeah well i mean one one tradition we currently have is i i proposed to aubrey on christmas eve um the couple days after i got the almond right um you proposed on christmas eve for good luck go on well yeah um he had to take some time to have the jeweler set the kind of the uh hook of the proposal was that i asked her to go out to a christmas tree um outside and help me decorate it and inside of the ornament box was a box with a ring in it so it was kind of a you know it's very cute and we've kept the ornaments that we

hung on the tree and those ornaments are also not trendy. But we've kept them. And on Christmas Eve every year, we hang them on our own tree. You sent in an adorable photo of the two of you on this bright and sunny Florida Christmas Eve in front of some kind of bush. It's definitely not a fir tree. It doesn't look like a fir tree. This is Maine. What is that? Well, that was my grandparents' property in lower Alabama.

Oh, okay. I'm not sure what kind of tree it was, but I was told that it was a Christmas tree. But I don't know the specifics of what kind of tree it is. Is it a tree in the ground? Yeah. Yeah, it's some kind of evergreen. It's good enough. It's great. This is a wonderful photo. ground? Yeah. Yeah. It's some kind of evergreen. It's good enough. It's great.

This is a wonderful photo. I don't know. It might just be like a ficus looking at this picture. The two of you are so happy. I mean, Aubrey, you are beaming. Chris, you are actually smiling, which is incredible. And you're not in a clothes closet, which is terrific, and you have these ornaments that you put on the tree.

And you're right, Chris. They're not trendy ornaments. You know what these ornaments are? They're classic. You've got your classic Christmas balls, red and green, plus some oblong dealies with some glitter on it. They're classic. Classic.

Evergreen engagement. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. The town was called Evergreen. the town was called evergreen in alabama i know that's what's written on the zip on the ziploc bag where you keep these ornaments it says evergreen engagement 12 24 13 so cute what does christmas mean to you both of you answered separately in fact one of you go in the other closet while the other one answers. This is a test. Christmas newlywed game. To me, it is a time to be together with family, to have moments that you share and specifically traditions.

I love any and all traditions. I'm all for all of them. And together you can sort of suspend disbelief on certain things. I think most of us grew up doing that as kids with other Christmas traditions that may or may not be true long term. You're trying to say you're willing to introduce the concept of luck. Yes. Right. And magic. Christmas magic.

But you're being very pointed about it because Chris doesn't believe in magic. I think we both agree. Well, I don't want to speak for him. We both love Christmas and being together as family. We just are slightly different in how we approach

what is meaningful about it. I was just asking for your point of view, not a secret argument to win this. Chris, what does this holiday mean to you? I mean, I feel like I'm pretty similar. It's about being with family, thinking about the past year, remembering family members that are no longer with us, you know, and having traditions that were sentimental about. So I, yeah. But just no, no magic, no lucky almonds. No. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think maybe it could be about, um, setting goals for, for the next year or goals that you will practically work upon and you will earn,

you will earn almonds through your own effort. Right. You know, there's no pressure attached to the magic. There's no obligation to accomplish something big every year. Just, you know, a time to get together with family and, you know, celebrate generosity. No presh. All right, Aubrey, I see you raising your finger. You may speak. Judge, I maintain that he may have some fancy arguments against this tradition, but what it comes down to is he just doesn't like cream of wheat. If we were to just boil it down, much like the making of cream of wheat. He just doesn't like cream of wheat and

he would prefer to eat something tastier on Christmas morning. And I'm not opposed to eating yummy things. I just love the simplicity of the cream of wheat. Practically speaking, busy parents on Christmas morning, it's easy. Get children's bellies full and you don't have to worry about making other fancier things. So I think if he were to be very honest, it would boil down to food for him. Chris, how do you respond to that objection? I mean, I think it's fair. I'm not that crazy about cream of wheat. Although the stock image that was in evidence is making me want to try it with a lot of butter and some sugar on top or something to try to make it a little more appetizing. It's hard to make cream of wheat flashy. That's for sure. Yeah. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my judgment. I am going to go

into the little TARDIS that is hanging from our Christmas tree because it's larger on the inside. I will think this over. I'll be back in a moment to make my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Aubrey, how do you feel about your chances? Well, I think it's a reasonable request to keep one of the traditions from my family, since we often celebrate traditions of his as well. I also want to give him a little credit. He's not quite as curmudgeonly as this argument makes him sound. He doesn't hate everything as much as he hates the idea of luck.

Correct. Chris, how are you feeling? Yeah, I think I feel okay. I tried to do my best to present my argument. But I think I got my case across. I think Aubrey has a good argument. And she's definitely better at persuasiveness and this kind of thing than I am. So I don't know. Yeah, I did my best. I'm not going to,

yeah, you know, it's because I worked hard at it, not because I was lucky or, you know, any kind of magic, but I tried to work hard at presenting my argument. You made your own luck, in other words. Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory.

The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky.

Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we're coming to San Francisco Sketch Fest, Saturday, January 22nd at the Sidney Goldstein Theater. This is going to be something really special. Wait a minute, you said we, you're talking about you and me? And Jennifer Marmer, I think. And Jennifer Marmer, too?

Yeah, unless she drops out at the last minute, leaves us hanging. Don't drop out at the last minute. We're going to have a great time. We're going to do a live show, our first live show since all of this started. It's going to be extraordinary. We're going to wear our little outfits, bring our musical instruments. It's going to be a blast. When is it again? That's January 22nd at the Sidney Goldstein Theater in San Francisco. You can get your

tickets at sfsketchfest.com. If you don't live in the Bay Area, tell a pal who does. It's going to be a great show. It's going to be quite the extravaganza, I think. Good time. Vaccinations required. Don't mess around. Get your tickets. Come to the show. Get your tickets. Get your the show. Get your tickets. Get your boosters. Get your vaxes. Boost it up, baby. We're going to have a good time.

We want to yuck it up with you at the San Francisco Sketch Fest, one of the best sketch fests in the world. One of the best fests. Best fests. I'd say top five fests, number one sketch fest. Number one.

And top 50 sketches. Absolutely. Yeah. January 22, 22 2022 it's on my calendar put it on yours please you're looking for holiday judgments specifically this week and and hey if you're in the bay area or you know someone in the bay area we're looking for cases to hear uh at this live event so please let us know write to me at hodgman at maximumfund.org if you have a case you would like to dispute live on stage with us, or if you know someone who does, hodgman at maximumfund.org or maximumfund.org slash JJHO, and make sure you let us know you're going to be at the San Francisco event. Jesse, I received in the mails a wonderful charm, a little football with the words, well, one word, Yale on it.

And I got it from the Put This On shop. Thank you for sending that to me so swiftly. And it was not a, I received no extra personal attention. It's just how it works there at the Put This On shop. You order a thing, it gets in the mail, you get it. And now I have something to give to a person in my life who attends Yale. Yeah. That's perfect.

That's very nice. Look, you want to save your holiday? Go to putthisonshop.com. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Don't despair and take your life insurance policy down by the river and wait for an angel to save you. Save yourself.

Go to putthisonshop.com. What's going on over there? One of my favorite things in the Put This On Shop is we have this giant container of Dutch advertising stick pins. And now I just honestly believe that all jackets and heavy shirts should have a little Dutch advertising stick pin in them. We will sell them to you five for $18. So they're a perfect stocking stuffer and they are so cool looking. And, uh, we both, we have both, uh, sort of theme packs and, uh, general variety packs. So if you're interested more in like an automotive ones, you can get automotive ones or, or whatever, but, um, they're for all kinds of,. But they're for all kinds of Dutch products.

I generally can't figure out what the product is by looking at the stick pin. But the design of these things is so wonderful. And, you know, come on. How can you be? They're about three bucks a piece. Put them in a stocking. Have someone poke their finger. It's a dream.

It's like getting an almond in your cream of wheat. A little dangerous thing you didn't know would be there. It's delightful. Lots of great stocking stuffers, not just Dark Crystal and Yo! MTV Wraps cards, although we do have both of those. That's incredible. And not just circa 1950s Dietzgen field notebooks. No. I really also love, we have these celluloid alphabet pins. Yeah, those are really cool looking. Many different letters. I think they're probably from the 30s or so. And come on, eight bucks a piece. Again, look in the stocking stuffer section or get something really fancy.

And move now because bugs and creatures stick pin packs sold out. Yeah. Circa 1987 wacko sores stickers sold out yeah you're never gonna get any wacko sores from me again look here's the thing i'm now a little mad because no one has got this victorian silver tug of war medal that i had i'd put it in my cart when you started talking about it and i decided to let it go i decided to let it go so a judge john hodgman listener could go get this incredible victorian silver I decided to let it go so a Judge John Hodgman listener could go get this incredible Victorian silver tug of war medal. It'd be a perfect gift for the tug of

warist in your life or anybody who enjoys a squid game, but no one's got it yet. So go rush, go get it now. I'm not next week. I'm buying it for sure. This is your last chance. Go to put this on shop.com use the code vintage justice for free shipping on almost everything. I think you have to buy 10 bucks or something like that just because I can't. I'd lose money sending you a $3 pack of Yo! MTV wraps cards or whatever. But VintageJustice is the code for free shipping at putthisonshop.com. There's so much cool stuff there. So much cool stuff.

Putthisonshop.com. There's so much cool stuff there. So much cool stuff, putthesawnshop.com. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. First of all, I just want to say to everybody who is listening, whenever you are listening, I hope you are happy and healthy, especially as we approach this winter solstice, the longest night of the year. It is a time of reflection on the year that passed and contemplation of the year that is coming and a return of light. That is what Christmas means to me. I am a secular observer of Christmas. You know how I feel about Thanksgiving, thumbs down, don't like it, don't need it, don't want it on every level, but still I have to go and do it. And I just want to shout out

to people who do not celebrate Christmas, either because they observe another holiday, secularly or religiously. Jennifer Marmer, happy Hanukkah. I know that you observe Hanukkah. And Jesse, you're all about Saturnalia, as I recall, right? All Saturnalia all the time, baby. Yeah, it's the best part of the season. And people just don't observe a holiday or specifically Christmas at all. Just don't want to have anything to do with it because it can be a pretty fraught time. For all of the talk of Christmas magic that Aubrey has spread all over this podcast,

like some warm butter over the surface of a glop of cream of wheat that may or may not have an almond in it. You know, Christmas is a place where you have to reckon with family, sometimes family that's not so great, family don't necessarily want to see. And then there's this issue of like, where do I observe this holiday? To what degree do I observe this holiday as a child of my parents, if I have a relationship with my parents? And then to what degree do I define new traditions going forward as a, in this case, a parent or as just as simply as a grown-up adult who wants to observe in their own way or not

observe at all? I mean, there are a lot of emotions that are caught up in this particular holiday, I think, and not all of them are positive. So if you choose not to observe any holiday this winter, I am all for you. Just have a drink of eggnog, unless you are dairy intolerant. Now I'm going to get letters about eggnog. Nevermind. Do whatever you want to do. Like what you like. But this is one of the things that you're wrestling with and that I have had to wrestle with. And I think all people who end up having children who observe holidays, they have to make this break between their child selves and

their adult selves eventually. And there are certain holidays as well as family vacations where these things come to a head. And here is one of them. You, Aubrey, would like to continue in your own home a Christmas tradition that you grew up with that your friend Chris, partner and all human being in his own right, doesn't particularly like. Now, Chris, you say it's because you are anti-superstition and begrudgingly admit to being anti-cream of wheat. I can definitely get on board with one of those arguments. But I am going to say that the argument that has moved me the most in either direction is that the game is rigged. Game is rigged. And this offends me not just as a matter of principle because if you're going to play a

game where you you put a choking device into a bowl of hot cereal and hope that your child gets lucky and doesn't have a food allergy or a nut allergy i'm opposed to the game being rigged very specifically one time. And that was the year that Chris got the lucky almond before he proposed to you. I think your mom seems terrific. I loved her text about the Santa Claus book that she sent. I think that this tradition is fun and lovely and wonderful. And in almost no circumstances would I ever ban it. And I certainly won't ever ban it from your household or your mom's household, I should say. But there is one circumstance in which I will ban it from your

household. And it is the circumstance that your mom crossed a line i'm sorry to say she forced that almond and gave you inside information you knew you knew what was going to happen when he got that almond you knew what was going to happen didn't you aubrey yeah you did you did and i love your mom but mom that's not cool you have, even if you are conservative to the point that it is expected that Chris would ask your approval, mom and dad, for Aubrey's hand in marriage. Once that approval is given, at some point, you got to just let them have their lives. Interfering with someone else's proposal, even in the most subtle, charming way, is NG. This was Chris's surprise almond to give to Aubrey. It all worked out fine.

I know that you meant well, Mom. I consider you my mom as well. That's why I'm talking to you this way. So here's the deal. I do not think you should have this tradition in your home for two reasons. One, Aubrey, I think it's cute and adorable. And I loved learning about Risa Lamond. And I loved learning about Christmas goblins of Denmark and Scandinavia, et cetera, et cetera. I loved seeing the picture of you. So happy to have gotten that almond

on Christmas morning or fake Christmas morning, whichever one it was in 2019. And I promise you, you will get that almond again because your mom will continue to do this. I don't care what your older sister says. It is a family tradition in your family. And what's good about it is when you go to your family's home on the other day or whatever it is, that's part of the tradition of that household.

You will always have that, and it frankly will be better because there are more people there, and it makes the game more interesting. And Chris, I will even say that it is not about luck. A true detective could figure out where that almond was simply by observing the surface tension of the cream of wheat. It's going to be obvious. I don't know if that's possible. But you have to understand, this is the thing that rang true for me.

I don't know if I buy this anti-superstition thing. It doesn't feel compelling to me. But I did feel really compelled when I learned that thing about how your mom forced the almond on Chris. And for him, you have to understand that this almond is not a delightful almond. A delightful almond of joy, shall we say. But a bitter almond. Do you know what smells like bitter almonds, Aubrey? Cyanide.

Cyanide. almonds, Aubrey? Cyanide. Cyanide. Unfortunately, and without meaning to, your mom poisoned Chris's cereal. She yucked your yum, Aubrey. And now every time he finds that almond, he's like, so what do you do when a tradition doesn't feel right for your household? You create a new one. And I believe that you can come up with something. Chris, you don't like cream of wheat. Find something to hide in something else that is delicious. And even though I don't think any detective could figure out where the almond is hidden by observation, other than human observation, because you know that your mother-in-law is rigging it now you can always observe her

she'll give you the tell but you could even do a thing where you're hiding something inside of something else where an observant person could tell it's a game who can figure out where it is don't make it a gift of the goblins or whatever it is find a way to bake an almond into a cinnamon roll. Maybe not an almond. It's gross. Almond's gross. What should they bake into the cinnamon roll? Raisins? No.

What are you doing to me? How about a baby Jesus? Sure. Or just a baby God or whatever. How about a dark crystal card? It does sound recently restocked at put this on shop.com i would say a baby whether it's jesus or not a little a little baby i just don't want i just don't want your child or children to choke to death is all yeah me neither i think you need to it needs to be something where you can pull it apart and see what's inside oh i know a hard

boiled egg no you have marzipan pig marzipan would probably melt right yeah it wouldn't hold It needs to be something where you can pull it apart and see what's inside. Oh, I know. A hard-boiled egg. No. You have marzipan pig. A marzipan pig would probably melt, right? Yeah, it wouldn't hold its shape. If you had like an oversized Hershey's Kiss or something, even if it melted, you would see that chocolate in there. That would work, I think, Jennifer Marmer, right? Chocolate chip you wouldn't be able to find, but they have a Hershey's Kiss or two. Like a chocolate center in one of the cinnamon rolls.

Yeah, it just is very big, I'm concerned. a Hershey's Kiss or two, like a chocolate center in one of the cinnamon rolls. Yeah. It just is very big. I'm concerned. There's no hiding that, I don't think. No. And then what's going to happen is- Everyone's going to fight. Everyone's going to be mad because they want that chocolate cinnamon roll. Whereas the fact- Ooh, I got to get that luck, they'll say. Yeah. Well, no, that chocolate. I mean, I guess the reason it works with an almond is that no one wants that almond anyway. No one feels sad that they didn't get an almond. So there's gotta be something a little gross, like a, I don't know, like a-

A fig. Yeah, a fig. There we go. I was going back to raisin, and I was thinking to myself, because you were very wise with that raisin. I had an initial reaction of repulsion, which is natural with regard to raisin, and I was thinking to myself, because you were very wise with that raisin. I had an initial reaction of repulsion, which is natural with regard to raisins. It's like, but that raisin's too small. What's a big raisin?

A fig. There we go. Put a fig in it. This is the sound of a gavel. We love weed. It's so good to eat it. We have it every day. We sing this song. It will make us strong, and it makes us shout hooray!

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Chris, how do you feel? I feel good. I think that this was a fair ruling. I think that it's, I agree with being able to celebrate it at her mom's house and be a part of it. It was good. And I feel seen and understood about receiving the almond and having my plan and proposal shown a little bit. But yeah, I think this sounds good. Have you ever thought about, instead of being at the periphery of the celebration, just sitting down with everybody else and trying to enjoy it?

He does his best to try to do that. I'll give him that. Aubrey, how do you feel? You know, I think it's a good idea to just make sure we still maintain the tradition at my parents' house. I'm feeling a little awkward because my mom is here babysitting our kid, and I'm going to have to leave this closet and tell her it's all her fault that I lost. Don't do it. You don't have to tell her all your business, Aubrey. Let her listen to the podcast.

It's not your responsibility to take this burden. It's mine. She has a problem. She can write me. Okay, I'll give her your email. Yeah, give her my email. Absolutely. I'd love to hear this burden. It's mine. She has a problem. She can write me. Okay. I'll give her your email. Yeah. Give her my email. Absolutely. I'd love to hear from her. Well, Aubrey, Chris, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks so much for having us.

Oh, wait, before you guys leave the closet, Chris, Chris, Chris, here's the thing. You're more reserved, I think, than Aubrey, right? Wouldn't that be true? Aubrey's family, if they're anything like Aubrey, it's like this outgoing family and you're worried that they're going to just absorb you and tear the flesh off your bones because you're a little bit more of an introvert, right? Very accurate. All right. So here's what we're going to do, Chris. Aubrey, take off your headphones for a second. Okay. Okay. Can she hear me?

I don't think so. Okay. When you go, when you go to Christmas this year at her, at her, at her mom's house, mom and dad's house or whatever it is, bring a bag of almonds,

put an almond in every bowl. Tell her judge John Hodgman says hello. Sounds good. I'll do it okay have fun happy holidays oh headphones back on okay so all right aubrey put her headphones back on you don't know what we talked about right nope okay all right now here's the deal if your mom listens to this podcast before Christmas, she cannot spoil this surprise. I will hold her in contempt of court. Get out of here. Happy holidays. Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

In just a second, we'll have some swift justice. First, our thanks to Twitter user at Brady Wiggins for naming this week's episode Gruel and Unusual Punishment. If you want to name a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities. We are at Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne. Did you see Dave Shumka's suggestion, John? No, I missed it. Our friend Dave Shumka from Stop Podcasting Yourself replied to the tweet like 36 hours later. He wrote, did anyone suggest good cream wheatsisless? There's a reference to good king wensless. Wensless.

Yeah. Wensless. You know,. Yeah. Wenceslas. You know, he was a fine King. I'm not even going to say he was a good King. Fine. Did his job as a King. Certainly jolly. Yeah.

He looked down on that feast of Stephen. That's basically what a King does. Looks down on people. And feasts. That's true. Listen to Stop Podcasting Yourself. Dave's the greatest. It's really, yeah, that's a great podcast.

While you're on Twitter, you can also hashtag your judge, John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and join the conversation over at the Maximum Fun subreddit. That's maximumfun.reddit.com. All three of us post there on that Reddit. That's true. We're always checking it out. We're making a list and checking it twice. Exactly. Evidence and photos from the show posted on our Instagram account at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman. Follow us there. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Our editor is Valerie Moffitt. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment.

Justin says, when I'm spending the day at home doing chores with my dog, I always say, we mowed the grass or we trimmed the bushes. My wife believes that a dog in a supervisory slash moral support position should not be counted as part of the team. Well, I'll tell you something. My cat is always around when I'm doing the dishes, and I do not include her in the team. She is just begging for treats. That's all she's doing. Staring forlornly at the shelves, reminding me that she needs food to live, and she only ate seven minutes ago, and she needs some more.

But I don't know about a dog, Jesse. What do you think? Can a dog help mow the grass or trim the bushes? First of all, a dog hates helping to mow the grass. It's too loud. Right. Trim the bushes could probably offer some moral support. Right.

But I'm going to say no. I think the wife is right here. I think it's a cute dog. But until that dog grows thumbs and can actually trim your beard, he is just moral support for the team. I agree. Submit your cases to Judge John Hodgman at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small. Remember that we're especially looking for cases in the Bay Area. So if you're in the Bay Area, make sure to note that you are in the Bay Area if you might

be able to come to our live show at San Francisco Sketch Fest. You can also mention if you happen to have any recording equipment at home of any kind. Maximumfun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at Maximumfun.org. That's it. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.