Judge John Hodgman - Hear She, Shear He

Episode Date: October 8, 2014

Is a man entitled to a beard?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Keer Shee Sheer Hee. Kelly brings the case against her boyfriend Ryan. Ryan wants to grow a beard. Kelly thinks it would be unsightly and uncomfortable for her. Should Ryan be allowed to grow his beard? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. So you towel down first with a hot towel. As hot as you can stand.

Put the razor in cold water. Not hot. Because metal does what in cold? I don't know, Judge Johnny. That's what I'm telling you. It contracts. That way, you get a first- class shave every time okay judge ain't the life though

swear him in please rise and raise your right hands do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god or whatever I do you swear to abide by judge john hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he recently shaved his facial hair

wherein his power resided. I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman. Ryan and Kelly, you may be seated. Jesse, by the way, you took my big reveal. I was going to try to keep Ryan and Kelly and the listening audience in suspense over whether or not I was still a bebearded person or a beshaven one.

But I did, you guys, shaved it all off in a mad fit on Saturday morning. And as you can probably hear now, there is no whistling through my beard anymore. I speak with no gravitas, anti-gravitas of the baby-faced. That said, Ryan and Kelly, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I reference as I enter the courtroom? Ryan. I have no earthly idea where that came from. If you can't get it, then I know Kelly will not be able to get it.

Is it Sweeney Todd? No, it is not Sweeney. Oh, that would have been good, though, huh? That would have been good. No, it is not Sweeney Todd. And I knew when Ryan didn't get it, that Kelly, you would not. Because this reference is to a movie that I believe it has been documented. Only men have seen.

I do not believe one woman in the world has ever seen, or if she did see it, remembers seeing Miller's Crossing. Directed and produced and written by the Coen brothers. Specifically, I was quoting a bit of dialogue between John Pulito as Johnny Casper with one of his henchmen as he went in. I believe it was a scene which was, I don't remember where he was going exactly.

Probably talk about ethics with somebody. Did you ever see that movie, Ryan, Miller's Crossing? I have seen it. It's been a while, though. Yeah. And did you ever see it, Kelly? No, so I can only assume you are correct. Yeah, no.

Scientifically, it's been proven. Only boys see Miller's Crossing. But it's a really good movie. Not a scary movie. Talked about scary movies recently on the podcast. This is not one. It's good. Okay, Kelly, you bring this beef before this court.

State your case and what it is you want. All right. Well, Ryan decided to take a camping trip about i don't know was it six weeks ago month and a half okay month and a half ago and um on this trip he decided he was going to start growing i like the way this is going so far would you say six weeks ago and he's like no month and a half that's the first that is some first class mansplaining there ryan yeah no excuse me let me correct you by saying the same thing a different way six weeks of one month and a half of the other nah triple fortnight okay so ryan goes off camping he does

he comes back with um scruffy face but not quite quite beard. And at this point, it is full blown beard. And I, I just, I can't get behind it. It's disgusting. He's always got stuff in it. He looks like a homeless person. I just, I can't get behind it. And you want me to order him to shave it off? Well, yes, I do. I want you to order him that he maintain it. He maintain a baby face. By maintaining his beard, you mean shaving it off so that he is clean shaven? Yes, yes. What do you want on his face, aside from the regular stuff, eyes, nose, and lips, and junk? Nothing.

Nothing. You want him to be clean shaven. I'm okay. I mean, I'm okay with him doing it once a week, which is what he was doing before. And I even I mean, I even purchased him a safety razor, and all of the hipster accessories that go along with safety razor, and he promised me that he was going to shave his face once a week because it's kind of expensive. So I just think I mean, I think that he should just maintain his promise. Quick point of clarification. When you say safety razor, what are you describing?

Because I'm not sure I'm clear on it. Well, it's kind of the old timey razor. So it's that just the straight blade. A wet shave, you know, just a razor blade you insert in. I think I can clarify here for you, Judge Hodgman. They're not talking about a straight razor. Instead, a safety razor is essentially a handle assembly into which one inserts a classic double-sided razor blade. Oh, like without buzz without, without buzz marketing,

like a Wilkinson sword. Yeah, exactly. All right. Yeah. We're probably a more core HD. That's the one. Yeah, that is it.

Yeah. All right. Well, we'd like to welcome our new sponsors to the podcast. We're core and Wilkinson, whoever, which one of you gives us $50 first, we will not besmirch you next

time it's we do sponsorship by blackmail are you listening moxie i will go there all right that's another story those are old fights that are not part of this fight uh okay so not a straight razor which if that thing were called a safety razor, that would be the definition of irony. But it is a slightly more safe version of a straight razor. But it's old-timey all the same. Exactly. The new kind would be called a cartridge razor. Okay.

And so when Ryan shaves using this thing, it gets down to the skin. It's not a stubble array or something like that. down to the skin it's not a it's not a stubble array or something like that it's like and and and he's been shaving once prior to this beard experiment he's been shaving once a week and that is acceptable to you yes or no kelly absolutely yes that is what you're asking me to order fine ryan what is your what are your ages i'm'm 35. And I'm 29. Okay. And you are a boyfriend, girlfriend? You're not married?

No, we are not married. Do you cohabitate? We do not. All right. We more or less cohabitate. You maintain separate residences and separate bank accounts? That is correct. We do.

And you pay your broadband bills separately? Absolutely. We do. Okay. But you live in more or less the same region of a U.S. state? Where would you say? Des Moines, Iowa. Des Moines, Iowa.

That's the capital of Iowa, is it not? Last time I checked. All right, good. At least I still have some time I checked. All right, good. At least I still have some marbles left. All right. And what do you guys do there in Des Moines? I manage a cosmetics department at an upscale department store.

All right. And I am a web designer for an insurance company. And do you work at the insurance company or do you work at home? Uh, a little of both. A little, a little of both. Do you, do you usually work, I'm trying to determine your workplace appropriateness. Do you, is it the sort of place that accepts your beard or would, or, you know, I don't know how things go in Des Moines, Iowa. I primarily work out of the, uh primarily work in the office, I should say, and I've had the beard for a month and a half, and I've grown beards in the past, and they're okay with it.

And you've not been taken aside by your supervisor in saying, you're in Des Moines, Iowa. I don't know how web designers do it in Nebraska, but here in Iowa, we don't have beards. No one said any of that to you? Not yet, no. Right, okay. So why, Kelly makes this accusation that your beard is unkempt,

that you have things in it. I'm going to ask her to define that a little bit more specifically in a moment. How do you respond to her demand that i order you to shave off your beard first of all i would like to clarify that she wants me to shave this but this is a moratorium on facial hair none shall be grown at any point in the future aside from the weekly you know stubbleble that grows from time to time. I grew up, my father had a beard. I always thought it was cool when I was a little kid.

And now I have the chance to grow a beard. Well, not the chance, I mean. I don't often take the chance to grow a beard. So when I have the opportunity, like camping, you know, I'm not going to go out and shave there for a week. I just want to grow it out for a while and just see where it takes me. Do you see this bird, this bird, excuse me, this would be a different case if you were strapping a bird to your face. Do you see this beard as a potentially permanent addition to

your facial array? No, no. I, at most I would like to keep it, you know, a few months at this point, maybe till the end of the year tops the end of 2014. Uh, okay. So you, you are petitioning to keep it until the end of 2014. And I would like to, in the future, be able to grow out facial hair, not just a beard, you know, mustache, whatever, and be able to keep it for a reasonable amount of time. I realize that it's not the greatest thing in the world, especially when I try to, you know, kiss my girlfriend or anything like that. Right. But I don't want to have this be any more burdensome to her than it already is.

Yeah. Kelly, would you describe what it is like to kiss someone with a beard? Well, I mean, here's a perfect example. The other morning I was getting ready to leave for work and Ryan was eating cereal and milk at the counter. And I go to give him a kiss goodbye and I got a face full of milk. cereal and milk at the counter and I go to give him a kiss goodbye and I got a face full of milk and he doesn't even know it's on his face because it's just all soaked into his beard and it's just you know things like that all the time you get a hair up your nose it's just it's not comfortable it's basically like making out with a brillo pad if you're lucky I I kissed I I kissed Zach Galifianakis one time, and he said it was like pushing two grooms together, and he was right.

We just watched that last night. What other things are you finding in his beard that he's not aware of, aside from Cheerios or name brand cereal? He's a messy eater. I eat with gusto. I like food. I'm not a messy eater. He's a messy eater i eat with gusto i like food i don't i'm not a messy eater he's a messy eater and also if he eats anything that's hot temperature or anything that's spicy his nose runs yeah gross i mean it's just gross yeah i'm a human being. Sorry. You know, Ryan is someone who until very recently had a mustache,

a substash and, uh, quite a luxurious, uh, Oliver queen, green arrow, uh, goatee.

Uh, I am a naturally, uh, a sympathetic year. Uh, I also have hair in my ear, by the way. That's what happens when you turn 40. So I hear you and I feel you,

but I have to say that that's gross. You need to understand that having facial hair puts certain obligations upon you as a member of society to not leave a lot of snot and milk in your stash. It's not in there perpetually. I mean, I'm a well-groomed man. I don't think that that lingers for very long.

We just so happened the other day to kiss right after I ate breakfast. What, are you waiting for your girlfriend to suck it out of you with your kiss? I'll just leave this here until she kisses me and then I'll kill two birds with one stone. And also my relationship. Look at that. There are two dead birds in the ground and also my girlfriend's love for me. Thanks, stone. Made of beard.

Well, and I would say it probably happens a couple of times a day. It's not this few and far between thing. Like he's, he's making it seem like when you say, when you say you eat with gusto, Ryan, what are we talking about here? I look forward to every meal that I eat. I, it's just, I love, love food, love to eat. And I throughout my life have had a habit of eating very quickly. You ever shove your beard into a big plate of nachos?

I wish. But no, I haven't done that. But sometimes, I'm not eating with the best manners, I would say. But, I mean, it's not every meal that we're running into this well and it reminds me of my dad who had a full beard has had a full beard i believe he went on a hunting trip told my mom he was going to grow a beard and then has had it my entire life and he would always say he's just saving things for later well your dad is disgusting the lovable yes absolutely that that that that even as someone with facial hair that kind of um that kind of dark humor about the stuff that is left in your facial

hair tends to turn my stomach and suggest too much of an acceptance that things will be in there. I do not. I judge harshly those who walk around with food in their facial hair. Take that under advisement, Ryan. But Ryan, also listen carefully. Listen carefully because Kelly, how long have you guys been dating? A little less than a year and a half. Kelly has revealed an important piece of information to you, which is that you remind her of her father, which means now that your relationship has taken a turn. Many of us date people that consciously or unconsciously remind us of our parents.

consciously or unconsciously remind us of our parents. And then when we realize that in the midst of the relationship, we feel a revulsion in ourselves, but then a sense of opportunity. Aha, I am dating my mother, but here is a chance for me to fix everything that is wrong with my mother or prove to mommy that I am the person I always said I would be. to fix everything that is wrong with my mother. Or prove to mommy that I am the person I always said I would be. This is a chance for me to take this bearded man who reminds me of my dad and fix my dad because I never could. And that means you guys are falling in love.

So congratulations. Thank you. I hope but doubt you'll invite me to the wedding. But that's another story. We deal with things of equal weight and gravity here, such as facial hair. So look, Brian, you have this beard that is gross to kiss. Would you say you have noticed a reduction in kissing since the beard has been in play? Not in the quantity, but the quality of kissing.

I would say, yes, there's been a reduction. Right. And is that worth it to you? Why, I should say, is that worth it to you to have this beard? Is that worth it to you? Why, I should say, is that worth it to you to have this beard? I definitely, let me gather my thoughts here really quick. Uh-huh.

Right. This is what you should have been thinking about all along. You know that it's gross. I know that it's not the, I knew here's I'll, I'll answer for myself. And then maybe you can model your answer with the, on the, in the incredible candor with which I answer my own question.

I knew from personal experience of kissing Zach Galifianakis on the mouth for television, the kissing someone with a beard or mustache is gross, even if they don't have food in it. It's gross and it's weird. Certainly, men and women have been kissing men and women with beards for a long time. There was, you know, the Middle Ages and the 70s.

But it's gross. It's a lot to ask of another person. So why did I ask it of that person? And the answer was plain and selfish. I liked the way it looked and I liked the way it made me feel. As I was getting older, it felt good to look in the mirror and see some gray in my mustache and in my beard. It made me feel like a grown man. And consequently, I felt younger and more excited than I did before I had the beard and the mustache. In a relationship, we always balance this kind of selfishness with the altruism of being in love. And that is why I asked my wife for a period of time to endure the discomfort of making physical contact via kissing with my disgusting facial hair.

And part of the reason why it isn't there anymore. So now, Ryan, why is it important for you to have a beard and sacrifice affection? Well, I can't argue with the fact that it is selfish. It is because I like the way that I look with a beard. It's like a little, it's a personal accessory I can grow out of my face. I just, I like having it for a little while. It's like a fun little experiment for me and me alone. I understand that it's selfish, but I just, every so often, I want to be able to do this.

I also have a baby face. You should stop right there because everything you've said is great. And I'm worried that you're going to say something that's going to make it less great in my eyes. But it is your chance to speak, so go ahead. Say the other thing. I was just going to say I've had a baby face my entire life. I look fairly young for my age, and it just gives me the opportunity to look a little bit more masculine, a little bit. I think you said earlier, carry a little bit more gravitas little bit you know i think you said earlier you know carry a little bit more

gravitas you know with my visage so i mean that's more or less it and again it is temporary i don't want to have this i just got through the itchy phase of this thing you know i don't want to carry it around further you know too much longer but i do i. I would like to remind him that I have not gotten through the itchy phase of this, and nor will I ever. And you never will. You never will. And did you see the evidence that I sent you? Yes.

Well, we have to talk. He mentioned his baby face. You have sent in evidence of your baby's face. Let's take a look at it. Here we have a picture of him with a little bit of stubble, wearing his glasses, handsome young man. Here we have a picture of him with a mustache. I think an even more handsome young man.

A handsome grown man. Thank you. A handsome grown man. But you do look a little bit like a disreputable magician. So let's move on. The only other evidence I have here is a picture of some diseased person's toxic mold. Or I can't tell what this is. Some sort of horrible skin disease?

Or is that the beard? That is what Ryan's beard did to my chin very recently. Well, no. First I'm looking at this thing that looks like a pile of dark black evil leeches that have attached itself to his face. And then there's a picture of a lovely womanly chin with a big open sore on it. Is that you, Kelly? Yes, that's me. And you claim that the beard did this? Yes, it's happened many times throughout our relationship.

The beard reaches over and stabs you in the chin? Essentially, yes. For your own safety, I'm going to say that until this beard is gone, no more kissing on the face. But I don't understand, Ryan, because you look so good in these photos that you clearly chose of yourself. This beard, this scraggly beard doesn't seem to fit in with the other stuff that I'm seeing. There's this nice picture of you with that v-neck black sweater on, and you have a nice-looking brown beard

that seems to be evenly distributed over your face. And then has something changed in your genetic material? Have you gone through a teleporter with a half a fly recently this looks like stuff this looks like brundle fly type stuff on your on your cheek i think that picture was taken when it was coming in and it had not yet filled out and you know it it takes time to cultivate you you know, a even, even more even beard. That picture was taken a week and a half ago.

That's a lifetime in a beard. Not even a week and a half. Oh, when, when, when you jumped in there, Ryan, my hope was you're going to say, more like 10 days.

You let me down. All right. But here's the thing, Kelly. When you see Ryan with this pretty nice beard from, I guess, before you knew him, you know what he looks like to me? Chris Pratt in Guardians of the Galaxy. Good-looking guy you got. Yeah, I do.

Would you kiss Chris Pratt? I don't know about Chris Pratt. And would you say kiss Chris do would you kiss chris pratt and would you say kiss chris pratt five times fast um well i mean part of my issue is the maintenance i mean besides the the physical injury it's it's getting a little gross looking and if it were to be trimmed and maintained and up to par with the rest of his appearance which he keeps very trimmed and maintained then I might have different feelings about it but not entirely different so what is more important what is more important to you that he have no facial hair for for your comfort or that he trim his facial hair to your precise specifications so that you know that you control him wholly in every way? I would say it's more important to me that he does not have facial hair.

All right. You also sent in some photos of yourself. Yes. And, you know, a handsome young man, handsome young woman. You guys got to be the toast of Des Moines. Swanning around town. Most beautiful couple of all time. No offense to all the previous couples who are on Judge Sean Hodgman.

Just like these guys are actually good looking. Thank you. But why did you send in these two pictures of yourself? Well, because at the beginning of our relationship, um, probably six months, no, four months into our relationship at his request,

I cut about 10 to 11 inches off of my hair. Oh, so this is before and after. Yeah. Before and after. Yeah. You had, you had beyond shoulder length hair before.

Yes. And then you cut off, did you say 10 or how many inches? Probably 10 to 11. I just cut it again on Wednesday, so it's probably a little bit shorter now. So all in all, it's probably been about a foot. So 10 to 11 inches? Yes. Yeah, like a little less than a foot is what you really mean?

Yes. I'm just trying to hyper-correct you. But I couldn't do the math right to get the joke best, so never mind. Ryan, why did you ask her four months into this relationship to cut her hair so dramatically? I did not ask her to cut her hair. You demanded it. You demanded it. You demanded it. Nor did I demand it.

As a condition of going forward. You don't look enough like my mother. I like short hair, and I had mentioned that she would look, you know, really good with short hair. I did not outright ask. You know, I realize there may be some subtext there, but I did not literally ask her to cut her hair. And there was no condition of it was at no point a condition of our ongoing relationship. Kelly. No, I wouldn't say that.

I want you to pretend to be Ryan asking you to cut off your hair as best you can remember. How did how did you approach the subject? Well, Ryan. I'm you. Ryan's very passive aggressive. Now here, we're going to do a little role play. Okay, well, let's say you just. Hey, it's me, Kelly.

I have beautiful long hair. I live in Iowa. And it's been so nice getting to know you for these four months or four months or 16 weeks please don't jump down my throat i use different i use different descriptions of time than you do but it amounts to the same thing is there well i mean is there anything about my appearance you'd like to criticize at this point well i i heard you have a haircut on Thursday. Are you cutting it all off this time? What a weird thing to ask. Why? It took me a long time to grow my hair.

I'm getting a trim. What are you saying? I just think you would look so nice with short hair. I just think you would just be beautiful with short hair. And scene. Ryan, why is your girlfriend Kelly ugly with long hair? Ryan, why is your girlfriend Kelly ugly with long hair? She is not at all ugly with any length of hair.

That's a nice answer. Thank you. And I'm sure you think you mean it. But why did you ask her to cut her hair again? You like short hair? Yeah, I prefer shorter hair. I can't say that it was excessively long or anything like that. It wasn't. But I mean, you know, what hair do you like?

Kelly, what length do you want your hair to be? You know, I'm okay with it being any length, but I had spent quite some time growing it out to be that long and getting it that color, And I was I really liked it. But I'm okay with I like change. So I chopped it off. Well, Ryan also likes change. He's willing to shave off his beard at the end of 2014. Yes. Is that too long to wait? I don't think it's I mean, it's it's kind of exhausting right now. I just want to be able to be close to my boyfriend without being uncomfortable.

And sooner than later would be great. Ryan, do you have any closing argument as to why I should not force you to shave? I want to let this run its course. I think that shaving at this point would be premature. I think it's got a lot of life left in it. And I also don't want to take it down all at once. I'd like to take it down to just a mustache for a while. And like I said, I don't intend to wear that in perpetuity. I just want to be able to...

I want to have a little dominion over my own face. You want to see what you look like as Hitler. It's a natural part of any man's facial hair journey. One that was unfairly denied me because I don't grow hair in that part of my lip. Very specific places on my face where hair will grow. Dead center beneath my nose. No can do.

I just hate Hitler that much. My body won't grow. It also won't grow good sideburns because I hate Wolverine. Alright, I think I've heard everything I need to hear. I'm going to go into my chambers and I'm going to stroke my now invisible beard as I consider your testimony and I will return soon with my judgment. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ryan, how are you feeling about your case? I feel pretty good at this point.

I think I made my argument for, you know, the importance to a man of being able to grow a beard. And I can't express enough. I know that it's a bear to deal with, but I'm feeling pretty good at this point. Kelly, how are you feeling? I think the judge was surprisingly sympathetic. I wasn't really expecting that, so I'm feeling pretty good. It sounds like you're both feeling good. Yeah. It's a nice day. You know when he was going to lose, right? Yeah.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say when we come back in just a minute. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Here's the thing, you guys. As someone who has gone through the emotional rollercoaster of growing a mustache and then what amounts to a beard in my life, and then shaving it all off, and seeing and enduring all of the phases of personal discomfort and apparently invitation to everyone in the world to comment on your physical being. I know that this is an emotional issue.

I know that this is an emotional issue. Growing a beard is something that I think men have a natural desire and indeed right to do. Every now and then, different stages of his life, a man who is capable of growing a beard, which is barely me, wants to see what happens if he lets fire every follicle on his face that will grow hair. See what kind of secret man is lurking inside of him. And for me, I discovered that I looked like the IT guy at the Church of Satan. That was who was living inside of me. But unlike me,

Ryan is able to grow a full beard. Everything connects. No weird, empty patches. I've seen the evidence. Both mustached and bearded. He looks pretty good.

And normally, for these reasons, I would have no choice but to rule in favor of self-determination over one's physical body. However, Ryan asked his girlfriend to cut her hair. Zion asked his girlfriend to cut her hair. Now look, couples at every stage of their relationship need to have frank and open discussions about what they find attractive and what they do not find attractive. appearance, hairstyling, dress, etc., there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. But couples managing each other's appearance is gross. I like you guys so much, I really do. But managing the other person's appearance, whichever way it goes, is necessarily infantilizing. And a dude saying to a woman that she should wear her hair differently because of what he likes compared to some mommy or starlet that he has in his mind

is intrusive and would be perceived by many as sexist, just like it is when a woman does it to a man when she tells him how to groom himself. You may express your opinion, ideally when asked, and you should express your opinion in these issues neutrally, not in an intimate moment, but say while having brunch or playing pinball. But once you make a request, not just expressing your opinion, if she says to you, I'm thinking about getting my hair cut, would you think I should get it cut very short? I prefer short hair, I suppose, but whatever you like, darling. That's all you need to say. It's probably how you more or less said it, just as you're saying things politely to him, Kelly.

But, you know, when you say, when you lay down an ultimatum, when you make a request, it is necessarily an ultimatum. It's like you please do what I'm asking you to do with your own body or else we'll both know that you said no. And this is toxic to a relationship because it becomes then a matter of defiance or surrender. And it's no fun. Trust me. Now, prohibiting Ryan from growing a beard, Kelly, or requesting that he shave off the beard before he's ready, you are forcing him to give up one of the distinctly and few masculine and magical things he can do with his own body. Women can do all kinds of things with their body. They can give birth to life. They can

make food. Growing a beard is kind of all we got. And should he concede to your demand, only shame will follow. The more face he shows, the more face he loses. Just by making that request. It's hard. I understand. Moreover, as relationships mature and evolve, so much of the people in the relationships must evolve as well. You know, we gain weight, we lose weight, hair is colored or cut or shed. We change our style of clothing. A life happily conjoined with another one does not eliminate the need to experiment and evolve our personal style as we age. And that can be very, very, very personal. So these issues of adjusting someone else's looks to your own specification are highly charged and must be dealt with with intense delicacy.

with intense delicacy. Or with plain frankness, understanding that the other person has the absolute and inviolable right to say, no, it's my body, my hair, it's my whatever. Leave me alone. So you would think that I would rule in Ryan's favor, but Ryan, come on, dude. You already poisoned the well.

She cut off 10 inches of her hair. You owe her one. Turnabout is fair play. How much does 10 to 11 inches of hair weigh, Kelly, would you guess? About a pound? Would you say about a pound? About a pound, right? Oh, I don't't know you are owed your

pound of dead chitinous non-flesh hair don't know if i use the word chitinous there i'm sure i'll be getting some emails ryan there is a debt to be paid things have got to be even. You've got to shave your beard. This isn't to say that your right to grow a beard is not inviolable in the future. You going to go on this camping trip again next year? Oh yeah, it's usually an annual thing.

You grow the best beard you can. I will change. You're clearly a guy who experiments with his facial hair, which I like. Sometimes a mustache, sometimes a little beard, sometimes you grow it, sometimes you don't. You're not hung up on one thing. It doesn't define who you are. And that's good. Keep things light. Keep things easy. I respect your right to grow a beard. I respect your right to keep it for a while. I respect the fact that you understand that you are sacrificing affection. And I respect the fact that you know you are

causing your girlfriend harm and that you will not go too far with this thing. And Kelly, you have to respect that it's his right to do something with his body that every man needs to do from time to time. But in this case, and in this case only, Kelly, you did the right thing by showing me those pictures of your beautiful hair, both long and short. I like it both ways. Thank you. Ryan owes you one. I find in favor of Kelly. Beard gets shaved tomorrow. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. judge john hodgman rules that is all please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom ryan your right to grow a beard was affirmed how are you feeling right now it's bittersweet uh i know i can grow a beard again in the future i i i i think it's as much as I don't want to shave it I think it's the right thing to do

and I think it's fair I can live with this I mean seriously once a week like not a lot to ask I hate shaving I hate it so much but I'm more than willing to do it given

what it means to our relationship to give Kelly back her pound of hair. Kelly, how are you feeling? I feel pretty good, actually. I think he made a great point. If he shaves tomorrow, then clean slate. I can grow my hair out. He can grow a beard next year.

I guess I have a year to prepare for this. So I like the ruling. That's great. Well, guys, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much. Judge Hodgman, I think you look lovely without a beard, almost as lovely as you do with a beard. I look like a hideous small mouth man baby with stubble. Are you growing it back? Is that what's happening?

I don't know. You know, what I admired about Ryan is the fact that he can kind of grow a beard, then get rid of it. Maybe have a mustache for a while, play around. It's, it's,

it's a, it's a, what do you call it in men's, men's fashion? I see An accessory. And it should be like any fashion accessory, not something that your identity becomes dependent on, but it's something that you put on in order to enjoy life in a more interesting way from time to time.

So you think that men should treat their beards more like singer-songwriter Brian Wilson and less like relief pitcher Brian Wilson? I know exactly what you're talking about, and I agree with you. Judge Hodgman, where are you going to be in real life? Well, coming up in October, I will be moving around the American Midwest. Well, coming up in October, I will be moving around the American Midwest. I'm going to, well, not in the Midwest, in the original capital of the United States, Philadelphia. I'll be performing.

And then I will go to Madison, Wisconsin, and then Milwaukee. They're definitely in the Midwest. And then to Akron, Ohio, for a free appearance at the public library there. And then a triumphant return, I hope, definitely a return to the Rex Theater in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In the Midwest, in the M cities of the Midwest, Madison and Milwaukee, I'll be joined by our good friends Bill Corbett and Kevin Murphy of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Riff Trax.

So that will be a lot of fun. And all the details, as always, are on johnhodgman.com. It is later in October, and all dates and ticket information can be found there at johnhodgman.com slash tour. Hey, I am going to be live at the Masonic Lodge at Hollywood Forever Cemetery in Los Angeles with my public radio program, Bullseye.

We'll be presenting an exciting variety show featuring an interview with Dan Harmon, the creator of Community, as well as Heat Vision and Jack, probably most importantly. And someone else to be announced, may actually be announced by the time you hear this. You can find out at MaximumFun.org.

Plus, comedy from the great Steve Agee and the brilliant Andy Kindler, two of my favorite funny men in the entire world. I couldn't be more excited about having them there. And music from the lovely and brilliant Sarah Watkins. So, a real murderer's row. Wait a minute, Jesse. Yes.

Since the last time we talked about this, first of all, the Bullseye and your live programs are known for getting first-class guests, but this is beyond first-class. This is like executive platinum guests. It's an insane lineup. And I didn't even know about Andy Kindler. He's in it too now? Oh, yeah, we got Andy Kindler there.

He's probably going to make a joke. It's not going to go over as well as he'd hoped, and then he's going to talk about it for five minutes. You know how you get a fire really roaring? I know this from being in Maine and being in front of a fireplace in the middle of the summer when you need fire. How's that, John?

When you want to get a fire really roaring, you just add Kindler. Okay. This is the second pun that I've made in two days i'm truly now ready for the euthanasia center in soylent green i love it i love andy kindler so much what a brilliant brilliant comedian andy kindler is a genuine living legend let those within the sound of my and jesse's voice go now to where to buy tickets jesse just go to maximumfund.org you can find the live shows under live in the right hand sidebar or you can just go straight to where to buy tickets, Jesse? Just go to MaximumFun.org. You can find the live shows under live in the right-hand sidebar,

or you can just go straight to TicketFly.com. And please remember that at all of my events, you will see me after the show in a public space, meeting and greeting those who wish to hang around and talk about their favorite Judge John Hodgman cases or take me to task. You know what? Please don't take me to task.

I will have just done a comedy show and I'll be tired. But if you've seen me do a show within the last 12 months or let's say 52 weeks in any of these places, then do know that you will see me do a different show,

including two shows in Chicago that I forgot to mention. On the 21st of October, in the middle of all this, I'm doing two shows at the Up stand-up comedy venue in the second city, uh, complex, uh, two different shows on the same night, uh, one after the other, but two completely separate shows. If you have a case for judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfundoutwork.com to submit it like judge John Hodgman

on Facebook. If you want to suggest a name for a future episode of the program. This week's case name came from Helen Mansfield. Thank you, Helen. Thanks, Helen. Our producer is Julia Smith. Our editor is Mark McConville. Thanks, you guys. Hey, guess what? MaxFunWeek is coming up October 15th

through 21st. Lock in. We're going to have a special episode of Judge John Hodgman. Lots of special activities, Q&As, all kinds of cool stuff. So make sure to tune in to MaximumFun.org and all our social medias for that weekend. And make sure to get

ready to share your favorite MaxFun shows with your friends during that week. We'll talk to you next time on Judge Sean Hodgman. Cardroom is closed! MaximumFun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.