Judge John Hodgman - (I Can't Get No) Legal Action

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Should a Rolling Stones cover band be ordered to play the hit song "Start Me Up?" Aaron brings his friend and bandmate Marcus to court to try! Aaron says it's a great song that would be fun to play. Marcus says it's overplayed! Who's right? Who's wrong?We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/sjhamilton43 for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court! Tickets are on sale NOW! For dates and more information, go to maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, I can't get no legal action. Aaron brings the case against his friend Marcus. Aaron and Marcus are part of a Rolling Stones tribute band. Aaron wants to add the Rolling Stones hit, Start Me Up, to their set list. But it's a non-starter for Marcus. Marcus says the song is overplayed.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. I missed my trash pickup at my home in North Haven. I just didn't get it out to the curb in time. But then I realized I could bring my trash to Maury's, so I drove down there. And I see Mike in front of Toad's, and he's unloading equipment from a truck. And I'm thinking, why is Mike doing this? What about the roadies? I walk over and I say, hey, Mike. And he says, hi, Wayne.

He had a strange look on his face, like he was hiding something. And then he said, Wayne, I'm going to tell you something I've only told my wife and my priest. I've got Judge John Hodgman, road court live coming to the club tonight. And I said, sure Mike, tell me another one. But then I saw he was serious. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Aaron Marcus, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever? Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's probably never even used the official operating system of start me up windows 95 Yes

Judge Hodgman you may proceed when I first moved to New York City in 1994 that was a year passed and then 1995 came out The year and then the operating system. Uh-huh. And I remember going to rent a video cassette and one of the video cassettes you could rent was Jennifer Aniston teaching you how to use Windows 95. You could rent a video cassette. What's it in the-

Jennifer Aniston and Matthew Perry, rest in peace, teaching you how to use Windows 95. I don't I've never seen that on YouTube. Maybe it's out there. Maybe everyone's watched this. Yeah, this is very famous. This is a famous video. This is definitely on. Oh, OK. OK. Then never mind. I'm not revealing anything. This is an unobsture cultural reference.

However, as a special Easter egg to our viewers on YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod, I am in an undisclosed location this time, one that has never been seen before in my background. Neither my office in Brooklyn, New York, nor the studios of WERUFM in Orland, Maine. I'm in a third place, an important part of social life,

a third place, and it is of social life, a third place. And it is in Maine. And if you want it to... Are you at the bowling alley or the cafe? Yeah, that's right. I'm at the corner pub. No, I'm in an apartment above a garage in Maine for reasons of my own. And you can take a look at it if you want over at the YouTube because it's the only

time you're ever going to see this spot. I guarantee you. This is the closest view into my private life than you'll ever see. All right. That's probably not true either. But meanwhile, Aaron and Marcus, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgments and one of your favorites can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom. Marcus, why don't you guess first? Oh, gosh, I don't I could not pull that reference up. Could not pull. Now listen, you you two are in a Rolling Stones tribute band. Is that fair to say? Yes. Right. Tribute band is I'm not insulting you in any way. Correct?

Right. Tribute band, because I'm not insulting you in any way, correct? OK. Dirty work. How about that? OK. But that's an album. That's a Norm MacDonald movie. It's a Norm MacDonald movie, and it's also a Rolling Stones album. OK. Did you think my quote came from an extended lyric? Was it a spoken word album? No, I mean, no, it had lyrics.

I mean, I have to confess that I didn't recognize the lyrics if that's what it was. Marcus, are you the lead singer of this band? Okay, so showboat, everyone carries him. I got you. Yeah, that's right. Minimum effort. I understand. There's a Rolling Stones joke in the Norm MacDonald movie Dirty Work where they're about to have a big bar fight and then

Chris Farley puts a quarter in the jukebox and says Rolling Stones Street Fighting Man L7 and he accidentally presses L8 in the Pina Colada song plays while they have a big bar fight. That's wonderful, but Jesse, it's not Dirty Work by Norm MacDonald. That guess is wrong. I'm sorry. It should have been.

All right. Aaron, what's your guess? Yes, I... Oh, I love this energy, Aaron. Okay, what's your guess? I'm gonna say The Fan fan Robert De Niro movie. What? The fan? Yeah, a lot of Rolling Stone songs in there.

That's the best I could do. Classic Giants movie, San Francisco Giants movie. Are people it's not the it's not a San Francisco Giants movie. It's not dirty work. All guesses are wrong. Do people even listen to the obscure cultural references anymore? Or they just come in with their own guesses? These guesses are pandering to me. I'm glad someone's finally pandering to me.

They always guess Mountain Goats or Tom Waits or something. They're guessing this Giants movie with Wesley Snipes and they're guessing a Norm MacDonald movie. Yeah, you're right. You know what? My bailiff deserves a pander. You both get A minus for effort and pandering, but you both fail because all guesses are wrong. Listen, I gave you, hey, hey, Mr. Policeman,

I gave you all the clues. North Haven, Morrie's, Toad's Place. Did you hear these references that I was dropping? Where am I, what city am I talking about? Aaron, Marcus. Let me take you back in time to a magical time called August 12th, 1989 when the Rolling Stones performed for the first time in eight years to 700 people at an unannounced appearance at the legendary rock club of New Haven, Connecticut, Toad's Place. Okay. And that what I quoted from that was a bit of the oral history of Toad's Place

called the legendary Toad's Place, which as far as I'm concerned, I mean, look, they had some incredible bands play there. I've seen tickets to Toad's Place with like Talking Heads, Tom Tom Club, Sinead O'Connor played Toads. I saw Public Enemy with Fishbone opening at Toad's Place. That's cool. It was pretty cool for a Yale freshman. Thought I was the coolest thing on earth and I remembered him, freshman at Yale, nerd.

Chuck D was like, any rocket scientist in the house. It was fun. Toad's Place. Legendary. Great place that belongs to a toad. Anyway, here we are. You both lose. Now one of you is going to have to win this actual dispute. Who seeks justice in this court? I do, Your Honor. By the way, that's all I know about the Rolling Stones. They played Toad's Place in 1989, right before I got to college.

You're going to have to educate me a little bit here. Now, Aaron, it was you who seeks justice in this court, correct? Yes. And you want to play the song Start Me Up in your Rolling Stones tribute band, correct? Exactly. I feel like it's essential. We need it. And your band is called? We're the Tumbling Dice.

The Tumbling Dice is a Rolling Stone song Yes, and you and Marcus are in the band together and Aaron what what did what's your role in the band tambourine? I'm the Keith Richards. I play guitar. Okay Okay, you're the Keith Richards and you're the immortal drug addict. Yeah I wish I had his habit sometimes. This looks like a fun life, but I just play the parts. One wonderful musician, terrible role model. And Marcus, that would make you the though the what?

The Mick Jagger, the Mick Jagger, the lead singer, the showboat. This is correct. The tumbling dice. And you don't wanna play Start Me Up, correct? I do not wanna play Start Me Up for the simple fact that when I started the band, I wanted the band to be in the Mick Taylor era, which is 69 through 74. Right.

That I think is their best string of albums. Okay. I didn't really want to play eighties, um, stones, but they have such a catalog that, you know, their whole catalog is leaked into our, uh, our set list. It's a pretty iconic song, Marcus, wouldn't you agree? Yes, it is. And I do like the song. You know, I'm a second generation Stones fan.

My dad really had me listen to the Stones from the day I was born. This isn't a birthright citizenship situation. Yeah. Not like you get extra credit. But I do remember, you know, kind of discovering them on my own on TV. They played Start Me Up. I think it was on like Solid Gold or one of those, you know, music shows.

Right. Because you're not, you, I mean, 69 to 74, you weren't, probably weren't even born then during the Mick Taylor era. Well, actually, I was born in seventy one. So I was. Yeah. But I wasn't going to Madison Square Garden, you know, as a one year old. So then what kind of Rolling Stones fan was your dad if he wasn't taking you? I know. Seriously.

Come on, dad. You know. Yeah. I guess he is what you would call a responsible parent who doesn't bring a child to a rock concert in order to flex his incredible taste. And here you are, a Rolling Stones anchor baby. Let me ask you this question before I forget this joke. You don't like Start Me Up.

Would you consider playing Stop Me Up, the weird Al Yankovic parody of the song about constipation? It doesn't exist, but should. That's it. It's a little blue for Weird Al, John. It's all right, but maybe it's just right for Tumbling Dice. Aaron, how did this band get together? How long you guys been playing together? How did it start?

I spent about five years, I think. I had been playing guitar on my own and I had learned about open tunings and I started playing a lot of open tuning songs, a lot of Rolling Stones that way. And at some point I was like- All right, you gotta explain this to me because I don't understand what it means.

So an open tuning is when you can strum the strings in it and it will just do a chord for you. It's like open G tuning, you strum it and get a G chord. A lot of the best Rolling Stones songs are in open tuning. So I learned a lot of them that way. And I mean, I grew up a Beatles baby. I'll be totally clear on that. So for me, I hadn't really listened to a lot of them that way. And I mean, I grew up a Beatles baby. I'll be totally clear on that. So, you know, for me, I hadn't really listened to a lot of Stones,

but I really started to love the music and I started to feel like I want to be in a band for this. This is amazing, you know? You're saying you have dual citizenship. I guess so. You have a passport for both bands. Yeah. So it was just Craigslist.

I mean, a lot of bands, this is pretty common now, Craigslist, so I found his ad and he was looking for a Keith Richards. I think you even read an explicit about that, needing a Keith Richards, not just a guitar player. Who said you're in the band? I did. Marcus, Marcus, you started the band.

I started the band. So I have another band that's an original band called the Rines and we got invited to play a Halloween show in San Francisco at the Elbow Room and they asked a lot of local bands that they liked to pick a band that was influential to them and do a cover set of that band. Gotcha.

So the previous year we did the Ramones and then that next year we did the Stones and we had a lot of fun doing it. The Stones are my favorite band. Yes, I hear that your father was into them as well. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, and we just had so much fun doing it that we just kept doing it, you know, and has gone through a lot of lineup changes.

Why are you kicking a lot of people out because they're trying to get you to play Start Me Up? Is Aaron hanging by a thread here because he's pushing for Start Me Up? No, Aaron is an incredible musician, and he actually does an incredible job of being Keith Richards in the band. Judge Hodgman, my best friend, Pete Fields of the Slow Motion Cowboys, has played that Halloween show at the Elbow Room, which is like blocks from where I grew up.

Wow. That is very cool. That is very cool. So just a little bit more background about this case. When did the two of you get together to come up with this obviously fake dispute in order to buzz market your band on my podcast? No, no, no. I'm going to insist on this.

This is not fake because we've been talking about this for years. And at some point, I think it was maybe six months ago, we were coming home from a show. We seen the black crows. Yep. And I've been telling them about this and I was like, more like the black on the nose.

Yeah. Yeah, it's on, yeah. So I said, listen, I have been thinking about watching the show for, or listening to the show for many years. So it's always been in the back of my mind, like maybe something will come up. So it did come up about six months ago

when I said to him, I might bring you to court if we don't play, start me up. Like I'm serious about this. And we have played it I think once maybe twice Yeah, we played it at rehearsal a couple times and I think we may have played it at a show Chicken pie shop chicken pie shop. Okay, so we whoa, what's the chicken pie shop? Now? You got my attention, Jesse Can you fill me in on that one? I don't have any background on that, but I'm interested to hear about it

That's in Walnut Creek. It's a restaurant that has a bar. And I think it played for three hours or so. Wait a minute. I say I have no background on this. 100% I've heard commercials for this restaurant during the Giants game on the radio. Oh, yeah?

OK, OK. Definitely the kind of restaurant that advertises on local radio. Oh yeah, okay, okay. Definitely the kind of restaurant that advertises on local radio during baseball games. It's a big space, they have a big stage. And we've had to play for three hours. Yeah. When you have that much time to fill, you sort of throw everything in there.

But in general, right, we do hour, hour and a half shows, maybe a couple sets. So we haven't played it in a long time Yeah So you only played it at the chicken pie shop because you needed to because you had to stretch for time I was able to squeeze that we played winter another rolling stones I love that song when we never played that one again You played by Her Majesty's satanic request in its entirety the whole thing that would be awesome

What Marcus what is your opposition to playing Start Me Up? It is a crowd pleaser. Is that your opposition? It is a crowd pleaser, and there's nothing wrong with that. Marcus, Judge Hodgman, Marcus didn't get into the cover band business to please crowds.

You know, I really wanted the band to play deep cuts. I wanted the band to be for people that are really big Stones fans. Generational Stones fans. Yeah. And I mean, some of the band members are more like, why are we not only playing their number one hits. And so I think because it's a democracy, we try to appease everybody's opinion in the band. Are bands democracies?

Is the Rolling Stones a democracy? I'm just curious. I don't think so, no, no, no. Who's in charge of the Rolling Stones? Mick Jagger. He actually does their business. He is their CEO. Like he does the majority of the business

handleings of the band. Okay, so Mick Jagger is the boss of the band. And guess what? He plays Start Me Up. Right, Marcus? You think he's wrong? No, I don't think he's wrong. You think he's pandering? He wrote the song, you think he's wrong? No, I don't think he's

pandering. He wrote the song, you know, right? Him and Keith, you know, right? You know, you think he's a bad songwriter because you wrote a bad song that you don't want to play. I wouldn't say that at all. I love the Rolling Stones are my favorite band. If you saw Mick Jagger, would you tell him there's one thing I'll never do is play Start Me Up because it's pandering? Well, I definitely wouldn't say that to Keith or Mick.

Um, but, um, you know, and like I said, I have played it, but there are, we, I think we have about 50 stone songs that we choose from that we reduce down to an hour or two hour set. Aaron, do you feel aside from Start Me Up, do you feel that the other band members actually do get a chance to express themselves in the set list? I think so.

I mean, there's a lot of us in the band as you heard. Yeah, I heard all the names. Yeah, there's a lot of us. There's Ranso and Christie and- Christian. Jumpin' Jack and Dante. Braillebot. That's right. Yeah, and Jack and Dante. That's right.

Yeah, and I think we do try in general. Rocket and Wu Tang. Star-Lord and Gamora, right. Okay, you were saying they all get a chance? I do feel like in general we try, I mean, Marcus and I usually do the set lists. And we do like to listen, you know, it's kind of like, I don't know, things become popular.

Like we want to play this, we have fun with this, we sort of rediscover that, and we sort of cycle through things. And we do try to keep it interesting. You know, we've been doing it for a while. So it is fun to kind of mix things up. And there are times when, you know, we're playing, maybe we've played in that town, you know,

within the last couple of months. So maybe we're going to mix it up, stuff like that. So we do try to go out and ask band members what they want to play, what they want to do. But in the end, I mean, we have to put together the set and that's usually the two of us. Is there, right. Because, well, who's, I mean, we have to put together the set and that's usually the two of us. Is there, right, because well, who's,

I mean, in the Rolling Stones, is there a power sharing arrangement between Keith and Mick? Or is that a contentious relationship? I think it's changed a lot over the years. Yeah, I think that, you know, they've called each other best friends, but then also there was a big time in the 80s when they wouldn't even talk to each other. But I think, yeah, I think that they they consider themselves brothers.

You know, right. They've they've sometimes family. Sometimes family is tough. Yeah. They've known each other since they were like three and four years old. Like. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I believe that they my understanding is that they just started speaking again when they got together to play this incredible legendary concert at Toads. Oh, that's New Haven, by the way. That is very cool. Aaron, you submitted some evidence here, including some statistics. These are the top six songs that the Rolling Stones have played live. Number one, Jumpin' Jack Flash. That's about a guy who jumps and it's Whoopi Goldberg.

It's about Whoopi Goldberg and Bobcat Goldfeet. Played 1,216 times as of August 2024 when we're recording this. Then Honky Tonk Women, 1,157 times. Then Tumbling Dice, that's the Rolling Stones ode to your band. Uh, 1,142 times. Brown Sugar, that's a song about nothing except a good natural sweetener. 1,137 times.

Satisfaction, also known as I Can't Get No Satisfaction, that's a song about the creative process. 999 times. And then, oh, coming in number six, Start Me Up, 938 times. It's the sixth most played song in the Rolling Stones' live oeuvre. What are you trying to prove here with this, Aaron? That the people have spoken and you should listen to them or what? Yeah, I think so.

I think it's the kind of song people expect. I would also add that on the last tour, we saw that show down in Santa Clara. They started with Start Me Up and they started all their shows on this last tour with Start Me Up. Why do you think that's wrong to do, Marcus? There's so many other songs that I like a little bit more. That's probably why it has not been in the set. When when they started the Santa Clara show with Start Me Up,

did you go hold your nose and roll your eyes or what? Or did you enjoy it? No, I totally enjoyed it. I was dancing and yeah, it was a great show. It was really good. Marcus, remember all those band members that we mentioned? Yes. Apparently, apparently Aaron pulled them all with this question. OK. Do you think the dice, that is the tumbling dice, your Rolling Stones tribute band?

Yeah. Should add start me up into our regular setlist rotation? Are you are you aware of what the band said? I think there was probably more band mates on his side. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's go. Run it down. T Dice Roll Call. Ranzo on keys says yes, because it's a well-known Stones hit. Christian on lead guitar, your quote unquote Ronnie Wood says no, because it's boring to play. Oh, oh, oh, by the way, that's an argument that I haven't heard yet. Marcus, to think on that one.

OK, Dante on bass says yes, because it is a well-known hit and we should play mainly the hits Dante. Boy, oh boy, Pandora. Drey on backup vocals says yes, it's well-known catchy tune that Aaron can really rock. Can't believe that you pulled the backup vocal guy, Aaron, come on. That guy gets a quarter vote at best. Yon on the sound person.

OK, that's fair. Says, yes, I believe. Oh, listen, Yon wrote a whole paragraph. I believe Start Me Up should be a regular addition to the Tumbling Dices set list. The Rolling Stones use this song to kick off every one of their shows. And it's something that the fan base expects. And finally, here comes Christie on saxophone. Yes, but only in certain settings.

If anything, okay, Marcus, this is going to you now. If anything, it's too popular. And what distinguishes us from our rival Stones tribute band, the unauthorized rolling stones is we don't just do the hits. Wait a minute, what? You have a rival Rolling Stones tribute band? You know, there, I'm sure there's a ton

of Rolling Stones tribute bands all over the world. And like actually after I named the band, the tumbling dice, I discovered that there's a bunch of other tribute bands called the tumbling dice, I discovered that there's a bunch of other tribute bands called the tumbling dice. But like in our area, you know, the unauthorized rolling stones. But the but the unauthorized rolling stones, the URS is there, they're your arch enemies. I didn't say that. Well, he says they just play the hits. Is that true? I didn't say that

Well, Christy says they just play the hits. Is that true? I saw the unauthorized Rolling Stones one time it was a long time ago like probably 20 years ago at the Alameda County Fair and I only caught like two songs and I couldn't even tell you what two songs they were But I thought you were going out of your way to not shade them, but you're just like, yeah, I saw them play something. I don't know what they're no, but I mean, you know, they're good point of like saying I saw them at the county fair too. I get you.

You're playing the elbow room and the URS is they're playing the county fair. Yeah, we would be stoked to play the county fair. You know, I'm not trying to throw them shade. What would you say is the mission of The Tumbling Dice? The mission of The Tumbling Dice is to play Rolling Stone songs to the best of our ability and try to at least bring the energy and the authenticity of the Rolling Stones songs and our own interpretation of them. Yeah, but if you wanted to be authentic

to the Rolling Stones live experience, it would seem that you would play Start Me Up first because that is something the Rolling Stones do. So how is that not consistent with the mission of the band? Well, I'm sure that they don't always place Start Me Up as their opener, you know? Well, maybe you should talk to your own sound person, Jan. If you look at both. Rolling Stones used this song to kick off every one of their shows and is something the fan base expects.

They played it. They opened with Start Me Up in Santa Clara, sir. And every show on that tour. And guess what? They opened up with a Toad's Place in New Haven, the most important rock concert of all time. Guess what they opened with. I would argue that. What they opened with.

What? Which one did they open with? That's not a guess. You turn the question around on me. Start Me Up! Okay, all right. Start Me Up right now, Marcus. I would say that their best concert

was Madison Square Garden in 1972, and at that particular time, Start Me Up did not exist. So they did not. It would be pretty amazing if they had played it when it didn't exist. Yeah, so they did not open show at Madison Square Garden with Start Me Up did not exist. So they did not. So they did pretty amazing if they had played it when it did. Yeah. So they did not open show at Madison Square Garden with Start Me Up. And as a matter of fact, they didn't even play that song because it wasn't available yet. You're so focused on this Madison Square Garden gig

that you missed when you were one years old because your dad wasn't cool enough to bring you. What was this? Maybe that's maybe that's why I'm so mad that What was his name? Maybe that's why I'm so mad that. You're so mad that you missed that show that you want to erase Start Me Up out of existence. You want to go back. You want to make the Mick Taylor era great again. I mean that was the era for me.

So give me a little history here, right? The Rolling Stones start in 1960. What's that? I think it's 64. Okay, let's say that Brian Jones is the is the guitarist who passes away. Yes, first member of the band that had passed away. Right. And his place is taken by Mick Taylor, Mick Taylor, Michael Kevin Taylor, born January 17th, 1949.

And he's a member of the Rolling Stones for these critical years, 1969 to 1974, appearing on the albums, let it bleed, get your yas out, sticky fingers, exile on main street. These are some, these are some, Aaron, you have to admit these are some iconic albums. Absolutely. Even I know this one goats head soup. Woo. Goats head soup. Scariest Goats Head Soup, scariest album cover I've ever seen in my life. So why did he leave the band and ruin your life before it had even started practically?

I think Mick Taylor left the band because he was dealing with drug problems and I think maybe the amount of fame that the Rolling Stones had and probably still do have, maybe wasn't just what he was... You'd have to ask McTaylor to that. That's just, I mean... Oh, hang on one second.

Hey, Nick, are you here? Yeah. Yeah. No, weirdly, he's not in a guest department above a garage in Maine for some reason, but you never know. He's still at least from what I've read, you know, I don't think he was getting a lot of credit too.

I think his contributions were immense, but he wasn't getting writing credits on things. And I think he felt underappreciated too. Gotcha. Well, he had come, he had already been in the, in the blues breakers, right? So he was an established guitarist. Maybe he felt like, he had already been in the, in the blues breakers, right? Mm-hmm. So he was an established guitarist. Maybe he felt like, I don't know,

we'd have to ask him one of these days, hey, Mick Taylor, if you're Judge John Hodgman listener, let me know, maximumfund.org slash JJ HO, send me an email. Judge Hodgman, I have a quick update flying in here. Yes, please. Headlining at the Blue Hill Fair. Yeah. You've got 21 Gun Salute. That's an ACDC cover band.

That's gonna be hot. Besides that, however, I think more importantly, you've got your live play of Charlotte's Web. Yeah. You've got the Llama and Alpaca demo. Women's skillet toss. That's my favorite event. You have the dangerous feats of comedy, juggling strength and fire.

That's on the center midway. Yeah, I've seen them. And then I think you've got, probably most importantly, you've got All About Dairy. That's a milk educational panel. And then actually going on after the ACDC. ACDC cover band, technically opening for dynamo dogs and pool party pooches. I don't think they're on the same stage

because I've seen the dynamo dogs before and they're great. They're just dogs that are jumping over pools. It's like a evil K Knievel but dogs. Love it. That's cool. Marcus, how many bands have a song thematically so perfectly suited to a particular part in a cover band set?

That is a good point. It's almost too perfect. I actually sympathize with you Marcus because It's almost too perfect. I actually sympathize with you, Marcus, because it's almost too perfect. There's almost no challenge to it. So one little argument I might say, if you listen to classic rock radio, right, and you're a big fan of a band,

and you've been waiting for two hours or maybe all day to hear a song by your favorite band, whether it's Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling Stones, whoever it is, the Talking Heads or Blondie or whoever it is. And then your song comes into rotation and it's start me up. It's a great song, it's a great song.

It's a great song, but maybe you were hoping for something a little bit more, you know, loving cup or just a song that's still a popular song, but maybe just off the beaten path a little bit. Do you think that's what people are looking for at the chicken pie shop? That's a very good question. I don't know.

Because I'm buying it at the... I personally, I'm buying it at the elbow room. I know, look, when Pete Fields and Slow Motion Cowboys play, I think maybe they play Neil Young, something like that, at the elbow room. I'm sure there's people there who are heavy duty Neil Young nuts and they're like, yeah, play the weird stuff. I don't know enough about Neil Young to name what the weird stuff is, but they're like, yeah, play the weird stuff where he's making that weird nasally wine sound. Aaron, we've heard from the band and also the sound guy and all but one would love to incorporate start me up into the lineup based on your poll

to Are you counting yourself Marcus? Yes All right, so in any case Aaron have you done have you ever sensed that the audience is sad not to hear Start me up? I mean like judge John Hodgman. They didn't play back in black sad. I Have to admit no, I don't think I've ever had anyone come up to me and say why didn't you guys start me up? Yeah, right now. I've never heard that but maybe that's because you know, we do one to sing I don't know maybe because you're closed off to all feedback

I'm sorry Go ahead Aaron all the other top six songs that we were talking about earlier. We do play those Yeah, but that's the start me up is the one and are all these top six songs jumping jack flash honky tonk woman tumbling dice Brown sugar which is about a sweetener and I can't get no satisfaction. Are they all from the mc-tailer era? Yes or no Honky tonk women, yes. Tumbling dice, yes. Brown sugar, yes. No.

Jumping jack flash. That's a gas, gas, gas. I think B maybe. I get no satisfaction, no. That's not, that's not. So just so that I understand, the difference between the best era for you, the McTaylor era, and then the later era is what?

How would you describe them? Can you give me some adjectives besides best, like descriptive adjectives that explain what the qualitative difference is between the songs? Sorry to be aggressive, but I just need to, as a non-stones person, I kind of want to understand. aggressive, but I just need to as a non stones person. I I kind of want to understand the songs were able to be in a blues rock and roll country atmosphere, but also be avant garde and be like maybe a touch psychedelic. Just the overall songs, all of the horn arrangements, the piano, the lead guitar, the backing vocals, the vocals, everything. I mean, it's just, I mean. Because the Rolling Stones really started as essentially a blues cover band.

And so you're saying that they still have a lot of the DNA of the blues. Yes, but they started doing a lot less covers and writing their own songs. And those songs, I think, were the best ones, you know. So how would you say their sound had changed by the time Start Me Up had come along? Maybe they went back to a format of shorter songs, more condensed songs. I'm sure there's a couple longer songs on there too, but maybe they were trying to write songs that would play on the radio well.

A little bit more radio fan friendly. Maybe. A little bit less weird and funky and Goatshead soupy. Right, yeah. All right. Aaron, you submitted some evidence, including a clip from the Tonight Show where Keith Richards plays guitar for Jimmy Fallon.

I watched the video. It's very charming. I'm not gonna play it now for two reasons. One, I've seen Jimmy Fallon do his Mick Jagger impersonation once today because of this video. And two, because you have your own guitar to play there in studio right in the Bay Area? I do. So in the video that you sent Jimmy makes this poor old man play legendary songs for him so that Jimmy Fallon can do his imitation of Mick Jagger, which seems like I think even Jimmy Fallon

would say a wildly selfish thing to do. And yet everyone has a lot of fun, right? And it's a fun moment, wouldn't you say, Aaron? Yeah. What did you want me to understand about the song Start Me Up that you thought was illustrated in this video clip? He seems to be having a good time. Even at his his advanced, I don't wanna say advanced age.

I mean, he's a remarkably well-preserved human for someone who's punished his body that much. And, you know, even if it's sloppy, I think that's sort of part of the style that, you know, having an open G guitar means you can just more focus on having fun and just sort of vibing with the music. And what I think is important about that clip is because when he does, there's two things actually.

So he starts, start me up and you can immediately hear an audience reaction. You hear people go, woo! Boo, boo, stop pandering to us, play the deep cuts. But it goes, it goes, da, da, da, and then there's that little break. That's the perfect time where people, and they immediately recognize it, right?

It's iconic in that sense. And they immediately jump in and they start right in that little break. I don't want to get in trouble with ASCAP, so don't play Start Me Up, instead play Stop Me Up by Weird Al Yankovic, which is very similar. Yeah, Stop Me Up goes.

But it has the thickest string, so that's how it's different. Let's hear it. ["Stop Me Up Goes"] Woo! Fun song, isn't it? It's a fun riff. It's easy to play.

For me, it's very fun. I will say for me, it's very fun. Well, let me ask you this question. Do you wanna play start me up because selfishly it just gives you this opportunity to rock, much like your bandmate suggested? I mean, that's a big part of it. Yeah, absolutely. Dre on Backup Vocals says,

it's a well-known and catchy tune that Aaron can really rock. Yes, it's very easy to play. It's a very iconic riff. It's the kind of thing that if your guitar is tuned to standard, it can actually feel hard. And a lot of people don't wanna mess with this tuning. So it's impressive, I guess, in that way,

even if it's very easy to play. Do you feel like you don't have opportunities to rock enough in the band? Oh, no, no, I got plenty of those. I have plenty, okay, plenty. Yeah, he's got a lot of opportunities. It's not a big deal. But Aaron, don't you, I got plenty of those. Plenty, okay, plenty. It's not a big deal. But Aaron, don't you tell me the truth.

You like the idea that kicking off the show with those woos is you as Keith Richards instead of Marcus as Mick Jagger. I mean, I don't think of it as an oppositional thing, but I do love starting. I start probably three quarters of the songs anyways. So it's not that different. When you think of the most iconic opening riffs

of Rolling Stone songs, what are the top three? I think maybe Jumpin' Jack Flash, Brown Sugar, Dumblin' Dice. Sweetener, yep. Yep. Brown Sugar, the Sweetener songice, Sweetener. Yep. Brown Sugar, the Sweetener song does sound like a weird-out song. Can't you hear me knocking? Are there any other songs that Marcus has blacklisted that you would like to play?

This is the last one. I mean, over the years we've added more and more from different members of the band, but I can't think of any other song where I'd love to play winter again, but we kind of decided that's like a December seasonal kind of Christmas shows. Marcus, do you feel like you've already made enough accommodation? Like what are some of the songs that you've agreed to

that if you really had your way, you wouldn't be bothering with? If I had my way, I probably would just be playing the songs from 69 to 74. So we play Miss You, we play Beast of Burden. Those are all songs outside of your chosen era that you have compromised. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, but then other people that are purists might say, why don't you guys play more of the Brian Jones era stuff? You know, which saying that no one's saying that you sent in a nice photo that we'll share on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram page and all of our social media of what's called the extended tumbling dice family. Who am I looking at here? This is everybody. So we took this outside of the Ivy Room. Yeah, we have a show coming up at the Ivy Room on Saturday, September 21st. Yeah, I mean, I guess part of the point here

was just to show you that we're kind of trying to balance a lot of different interests in the band. And we really do try to treat it as much of a democracy as we can. I think in the end, you know, somebody has to make the decisions and Marcus is the leader of the band, so. So I get to say no.

Yeah, well, I mean, that's what Marcus is trying to tell you. No, I hear, I've accommodated all these other junk non-McTaylor era songs. This is the one, this is, here is, you know, here is where I take my stand. I just, I can't get it out of my head. It's, you know, it, it, it. It's a catchy song. Start me up.

It's a catchy song. You it, it, it. It's a catchy song. It's a catchy song. You know, nobody's requested it ever, but I do think that people, when they leave, they probably go, you know, didn't hear start me out. I don't know, it would strike me as weird. Marcus, what do you open with typically? Don't tell me, sing it. I was born in a crossfire hurricane.

That's a good song. Yeah. Yep. What's that called? Crossfire hurricane? Yep. No, that's a jumping jack flash. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I knew that I guess. That's old jumping jack. Jumping jack flash is a pretty hot song to open with too. I mean, that's a very upbeat song. And a pretty good Whoopi Goldberg action comedy. That's right. Yeah, that is a good, that is a pretty hot song to open with too. I mean, that's a very upbeat song. And a pretty good Whoopi Goldberg action comedy. That's right. Yeah, that is a good that is a great movie. Can you offer any evidence, Aaron, that not playing Start Me Up is hurting the band's show?

I mean, no one's complaining. No. I mean, I'm just being honest. I can't. It says here, Marcus, that you want me to rule that you never play Start Me Up, and also to print shirts that say, don't ask me about Start Me Up. Who's idea was that? I think that would be so great. Even if I had to play it,

but I'm just wearing a shirt that says, don't ask me about Start Me Up. That's really cool. Is it just the case that people have been, the band has been bugging you about this so much? You want me to shut this down now and forever? You know what I told Aaron I said if you get the if you get the the win then I will never complain about playing start me up and I felt like I didn't really

complain about playing start me up that much this kind of came out of nowhere like I didn't realize that it was that important to Aaron to play Start Me Up. Aaron, why is this so important to you? It's a fun song. It's fun to play as I said. I really like the innuendo that we were hinting at earlier. I like that about the Stones.

I like that they're sort of dirty and they got that most dangerous band in the world. They are bad boys. It's one of, you know, I mean, it's a very poppy song, yes, but it has those connotations and I love songs that do that. Do you defend, start me up from Marcus's accusation that it's simply pop radio pablum? I do. I think there's an undercurrent there that makes it more than meets the eye. And I think, you know, the fact that it works so well as an opener is a plus.

Marcus, now that you know that it's so important to, uh, Aaron, how does, how does, has your opinion changed? How does that make you feel? Yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I consider myself to be a team player and I do love Aaron a lot. He brings so much to the table, you know, and, you know, him saying like, it's really important to me, makes me kind of like say like, you know, we should probably play start me up. Before you make my decision for me, Marcus, Aaron, do you have a show coming up that in particular that you would like to start

it up with Start Me Up? I think the next show at the Ivy Room, we got to do Start Me Up. That's what I want. And then I want it to be on the list, you know, so we can add it as as needed, maybe half the time. Marcus, have has the band ever played Start Me Up? half the time. Marcus, has the band ever played Start Me Up? Yes, I believe we have played it at a show or two. And you sang it?

Yes. And how did you feel it went? How did you feel as you were singing it? How did you feel after you sang it? I think I sang it okay. How did you feel about the fact that you played it? I had fun. All right. You didn't feel like you you sold out your soul?

No, I didn't feel like I sold out my soul. All right. Will you or will you not be hearing start me up when you go to the ivy room to hear tumbling dice on September 21st? You'll find out in a moment because I'm going to go into my chambers. I'll consider my decision. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Marcus, how do you feel about your chances right now? It's kind of feeling like it's leaning Aaron's way.

Do you think your strategic retreat is going to work? No. But I felt that rather than just be the curmudgeon that, you know, doesn't want to play start me up, like, maybe that doesn't look great either. So. Aaron, how do you feel? I feel good, though, you know, I've I've been around, I've listened to enough of the shows to know that, you know, the judge likes to throw curveballs. So, so I don't know. He probably wouldn't describe it as throwing curveballs. Well we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast, and we are preparing for the road court tour.

I know I'm preparing anyway, John. I just had a music lesson with my music teacher, Nico. I'm still thinking about which of the many songs I'm considering to sing on the show, but Jesse, you know, earlier in this episode, you mentioned the Blue Hill Fair. Yeah. And all the fun things that are happening there. I noticed that you didn't mention that on Saturday at 9 AM, 4H and Open Beef Show.

Ha ha ha! Open Beef Show. First of all, any show we do is an open beef show, if you know what I'm talking about. That's just what I was going to say. It basically describes our live Judge John Hodgman show. Oh, you're talking about the disputes. I was just talking about the beef on display.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The only beef cake that is displayed occasionally is my calves if I lift my robe up. Yeah, no, I mean, we have an open beef show about to hit the road and we're really excited about it. Obviously, it's better when you're there. Tickets are going really, really fast. So please get over to maximumfund.org slash events to get your tickets for New York, Philadelphia, DC.

Ann Arbor is sold out, Pittsburgh is sold out, gosh. But there's still plenty of tickets available in Madison, Wisconsin, St. Paul, Burlington, Vermont. That's happening the day after the election. Yeah, we'll see how that goes. Get your tickets now because you'll want to be with friends one way or the other that day. Portland, Maine, Turner's Falls, Brookline, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles.

You know where we're going. And if you don't know, go to maximumfund.org slash events to find out right now. That's maximumfund.org slash events. And look, the first leg of this tour is right around the corner, so do not delay. And if you have a dispute for us for the Open Beef Show, And look, the first leg of this tour is right around the corner, so do not delay. And if you have a dispute for us, for the Open Beef show,

go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Even for those sold out shows, we'll get you in if you've got a good dispute that we can use on stage. So no matter what your dispute is, no dispute too big or too small. Jennifer will sort through them, don't worry. Go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Before I rule in Aaron's favor, because this is obvious where we're going, you made the decision for us, Marcus. I just do want to say, I appreciate where you're coming from. You know, like you want to curate a particular era of the Rolling Stones and you're not doing this,

you know, for money anymore than the Rolling Stones at this point are doing it for money. You're doing it for,. You're doing it for. I can't get no satisfaction, some inner desire. Because I mean, I presume you're not making a fortune off of this, right? Doing it out of the love of the Rolling Stones music and songs and also the love of my fellow bandmates. Well, not all of the songs, though, is the thing.

Not even a not even the lion's share of the Rolling Stones is career a very specific period of time and To your credit like, you know, you you don't want to be captured by the hits. You know what I mean? and Yet to your credit even though this is the you know on the pathway to insufferable gatekeeper ism though this is the you know on the pathway to insufferable gatekeeperism you are appreciate that Aaron is a is a really talented guitarist the other members of your band are very talented that you have to be open to them in a creative collaboration and you and you can't just have it be the the Mick Taylor era only and that's it and I have to I have to credit you for that.

That's really good. That's a really good place for you to be. And, you know, honestly, if you were a little bit more truculent, if you were a little bit more snobby, if you wanted to hold the line and actually turn this into a fight of some kind, it would have been a more exciting podcast, but I'm I'm happier that you are who you are. And the whole human being that you are being open to the fact that,

you know, you're in this with other human beings and they also have feelings. And you're not just the lead singer. You're not the star. You're part of a band. A lot of bands don't understand that. So, obviously, when you open the show on September 21st, right, the Ivy whatever, you're gonna open with meow, meow, meow. Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, meow,

but you're gonna sing the actual words. Actually, it would be pretty hot if you sang Stop Me Up. But maybe we'll save that. Maybe we'll save that for when you play the Toad's Place. I'll see if I can get you guys books there. See if that can happen. That would be really cool. But I will.

But in in honor of your reticence and your openness and your good idea, Marcus, I am going to suggest that you have a T-shirt made saying. Hmm. Don't ask me about start me up. Actually, I may have the T-shirt just say, stop me up. You have to wear when you sing that song. And you know what? It's on you now, Aaron. If it doesn't go great, guess what? It's not on the list anymore. Oh

Fair I think I think you have to really kill it Yeah, I want video That we can share on the YouTube channel and you have a YouTube channel. I'm sure of course right we do Yeah, go ahead say it. Oh gosh a tumbling dice on YouTube Gosh a tumbling dice on YouTube Promoting your YouTube channel as we are as good as promoting our YouTube channel the tumbling dice Bay Area Maybe that's the tumbling dice Bay Area, maybe I'll tell you what well Make sure to film it and and we'll we'll share it from our YouTube as well as a link Okay, and I hope that you kill it because otherwise you've just wasted all of our time Aaron Make sure to film it and we'll share it from our YouTube as well as a link.

And I hope that you kill it because otherwise you've just wasted all of our time, Aaron. We will. You'd make a grown man cry. If you don't kill it, you'd make a grown man cry. This is the sound of a gavel. No, funny! Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Aaron, how are you feeling? Great, great. I feel really good about the ruling and we will kill it, no doubt. How about you, Marcus? I'm feeling good. Don't expand on that, Marcus. I mean, yeah, I'm feeling good.

I mean, obviously we're gonna play Start Me Up and we're gonna kill it. Aaron Marcus, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It's been a joy to have you. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for having us, this was really fun. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We'll have swift justice in just a second. First, our thanks to Redditor SjHamilton43 for naming this week's episode, I Can't Get No Legal Action. I think it was one of our best, just like right on target names in a long time. Absolutely. You can join the conversation over on the Maximum Fund subreddit. That's at maximumfund.reddit.com.

That's where we ask for those suggestions, and where we chat about each week's program. Keep an eye out for those posts, evidence and photos from the show posted on our Instagram at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. If you're not on Instagram, you can always look at them on the website at MaximumFun.org. We're also on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Pod. You want to see Hodgman's secret location?

Hit up YouTube. That's the place to see it. Come on, folks. Smash that like and subscribe button. And why not this week, choose this week, to pick an episode, a recent episode that you've particularly loved. Copy that URL on YouTube and send it

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sons who also enjoy it. We often refer back to things that we have heard on the show that have made us laugh, like giving cookies at a fast casual restaurant counter a firm hold or ordering the Kung Pao chicken. The warmth and humor of JJ HO has truly brought a little bit more joy to our lives. Wholesome content, five stars. Thank you. I give you five stars, Beth, Bethwood Hamilton. And if you're listening to us on Apple Podcast, why don't you go and drop us a review there or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really does help people find the show. Thank you.

Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Aaron Figueroa at Bay Area Podcast Studio in Fremont, California. Special shout out, by the way, John, to The Shane Company. Open Monday through Friday till six, Saturday and Sunday till five. Our social, this is my new thing is I just want us to be sponsored by a Meche's East Coast Pizzeria.

Sure. Our social media manager is Natty Lopez. Our podcast edited by AJ McKeon. Our video editor is Daniel Spear. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Cutlin Nish on the Maximum Fund subreddit asks, how do you spell cuttlefish? No.

How much is too much to keep in stock? I keep extra containers of commonly used items in my. I was going to say, it depends on where you are in your retirement planning. Right. I keep extra containers of commonly used items in my home in case I run out before my weekly grocery shopping. My husband says, stop it.

Yeah, well, you know, I am a someone who loves and takes great pleasure in a well stocked pantry. But the reality is I found a can of beans the other day that expired this year. And I have to imagine that I bought that can of beans 10 years ago. Right? When you find a can of super beans that has expired, you're like, this is, it's existentially devastating because you're looking at this thing going like you were supposed to last forever. You were supposed to be here forever for me and now you're expired can of beans.

So there is such a thing as overdoing it. And I've been working through the old stock here in Maine and getting down to the bare cupboard shelves. And I got to tell you that I kind of like it. So anyway, obviously everything in moderation or whatever. But as soon as you've got beans expiring, you're hoarding too much. Don't get Jesse started on beans, please. Big fat juicy beans. Hey, we're now in September

and it's time to go back to school. What are your back to school disputes? Do you have a case about the Rodney Dangerfield movie Back to School? Did someone shove you in a locker and now you want revenge? Are you, I'm looking at you, John Lovett. Are you still bitter that your theater classmates decided to perform The Lion King

instead of your pick Bye Bye Birdie? That was wrong. Send us your school disputes at maximumfund.org slash jjho. And of course we want every dispute at maximumfund.org slash jjho especially if we are coming to you on the road court tour. That means New York City, Washington DC, that means Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Washington, D.C. That means Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. That means Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Let's see you out there, and if you have a dispute, maximumfund.org slash JJHO. I'm just gonna mention, John.

Yeah. We're gonna have a very special guest in Washington, D.C., our friend Linda Holmes from NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, the queen of little weirdsies. That's right. If you've got a little weirdsies dispute, no matter where you are, send it in at maximumfun.org slash jjho.

And if you're in Washington DC, holy cow, please let us know that you're in Washington DC, because you never know what might go down on that stage. You never, ever know. When a wild card like Linda Holmes is on hand. That's going to be so much fun. MaximumFun.org slash events for tickets, MaximumFun.org slash JJ HO to submit your cases. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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