Judge John Hodgman - Impersona Non Grata

Episode Date: March 18, 2015

A man starts a Hulk parody account of a friend on Twitter. Is it funny, unoriginal or just STRAIGHT UP IMPERSONATION?

Listeners, please be warned that this week's show includes a profane word used repeatedly and the double meaning of the word is rooster. So be warned if you're listening to this episode with kids or on a stereo or whatever. Okay, let's do this. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, impersona non grata. Dana brings the case against his friend Brendan. Several years ago, Brendan started a Hulk parody Twitter account, and he used Dana's name in the Twitter handle.

Brendan says the account is funny. Dana says it's borderline impersonation. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. borderline impersonation. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. Quote, if you want to know who you are and what you truly stand for, leave your country. Leave everything you're familiar with. Force yourself to break your routines and move somewhere far away, even if it's just for one year. You won't be a tourist, which means you'll be there for too long for your choices to be inconsequential. You'll meet people, you'll connect. A new life will begin to overwrite your old life, and the only constant that remains

will be you. Once you understand that comes the moment where you have to look at yourself and determine if you like what you see. End quote. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he only recognizes

Greyhawk as canon? I do. Yes, definitely. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Dana and Brendan, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either one of you two young gentlemen name

the obscure piece of culture that I quoted directly from as I entered the courtroom? We'll start with Dana, since you bring the case to this court. Well, I was going to guess the rope. He said it's obscure, so I entered the courtroom. We'll start with Dana, since you bring the case to this court. Well, I was going to guess Thoreau, but you said it's obscure, so I withdraw my guess. It is not Thoreau.

And, you know, thank you for considering Thoreau to be mainstream. I agree with you. Brendan, do you want to take a shot? I don't. I really have no idea I thought maybe it was from

a fantasy novel but I couldn't place it all guesses are wrong that is actually from the introduction to the book Smashed The Life and Tweets of Drunk Hulk by Christian A.

And I don't know how to pronounce his last name. So Christian, if you're out there in Poland where you live, forgive me. Christian A. Dumais, D-U-M-A-I-S. The French pronunciation would be Dumais and the Ricky Gervais pronunciation would be Dumais. And Christian, as you may or may not know, created the Drunk Hulk Twitter account in 2009, which, if not the first, and I'm not sure if it was, is certainly arguably the most famous and renowned of the various Hulk parody accounts that emerged on Twitter between 2009 and today. He did it for five years, and he wrapped up the Drunk Hulk account, which tweeted such standards as, Drunk Hulk totally get why people's mad at 1%, but no forget about Skim 2, that worst. And also, for many people, the first news they heard about the assassination of Muammar Gaddafi. He wrapped that up on October 6th of last year, 2014,

after five years of tweeting it. And I bring him up, his book is available on Amazon. I bring him up because this very case revolves around a Hulk-style parody account. Is that not correct, Dana, who brings a case before this court? That is correct, yeah. And Dana, what is the crux of your dispute with your friend Brendan? The major crux is that, well, Brendan had this idea for making a Hulk parody account in 2012.

And he told me about it. And he said, I want to make a Hulk parody account of you. And I said, please don't do that. And then nine days later. And then he did it anyway. He did it anyway, yeah. I'm sorry, go ahead, finish your thought. He waited about nine days and then he started up. All right. And explain to listeners to this podcast who may not know, is a hulk parody

account on twitter uh it's just it's a uh an account where hulk hulk speaks in a very specific way he smashes things and he he uh uses incorrect grammar and he uses all caps you know what might actually make it easier for our listeners can Can you explain it in Hulk talk? I can do my best. Hulk writes simple messages on Twitter and smash. And in all caps as well. Yeah. See, one of the things I've discovered, I tend to be someone who trips over his words a lot, and I often feel that the best way to get at your precise thought is to talk like Hulk. Brendan, you talk now. Okay, am I allowed to talk like me, or should I talk like Hulk?

You pick, Brendan. Okay, I pick Brendan. I'm glad you followed my instructions. Brendan, how do you respond to the accusation? First of all, how old are you both? Where are you? What is your relationship? Brendan, talk now.

I'm 25. And Dana, I always forget. I think you're 27 or so. Eight. 28. Oh, my God. And we live in Saskatoon in Canada. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. That's right.

In Canada. That is a province of Canada to which I have been. Although I've never been to Saskatoon, the largest city in Saskatchewan, larger even than the provincial capital of Regina, Saskatchewan, a provincial capital whose name I like to say whenever I have an opportunity to do it. You're 25, 28 years old. You are friends, correct? Yes.

And what is your, how long have you been friends? Oh, many years, probably eight, seven or eight years. Yeah. Oh, well, since, since teenager-dom, would you say? Something like that. Fair enough. Something dumb. Yeah. And, and what do you guys do in Saskatoon aside from annoy each other?

Dana, do you want to feel this one? You do a lot of things. I don't want to hear from Dana. I'll ask Dana in a minute. Brendan, what do you do since your life seems comparatively, uh,

hulkish and simple? Uh, yeah, it is. I just, I, I make, uh, come make radio commercials.

Okay. For a commercial ad agency in Saskatoon? For a non-profit community radio. Oh, fantastic. All right, good. And Dana, we'll get to your checkered history in a moment, but Dana would like you to take this account down. It was set up in 2012. It is still up as of this day. Why is it unfair for him to ask you to take it down? It's not unfair. I never took it down. I never took it down, but I stopped using it. and I kind of always intended to take some screen grabs and save everything, some sort of time capsule. But it still attracts a small amount of attention from the odd person. Now, making radio commercials for nonprofit radio in Canada apparently leaves you with lots of time on your Hulk-like hands. So I can understand why you might have time to do this.

Why was Dana specifically ripe for Hulk parody? In other words, in fact, people who are listening at home who are not driving may direct their Twitter or their internet browser of choice to Twitter and look at the account along with us. It is Dana Durrell Hulk. And this speaks to the very issue because I've just said Dana's actual last name, not something we often do here on the podcast, but there's no other way to talk about it. So now Dana Durrell of Saskatoon is known to all the listeners of this podcast, I would say a full 30% of whom are internet identity thieves by trade.

So, sorry. So, Dana Durrell, you have an image of what I can only presume is Dana because he looks like a nice non-Hulky bespectacled Saskatonian on top of a Hulk body. spectable Saskatonian on top of a Hulk body. And then you have Dana Durrell Hulk saying things in the Hulk language, like Hulk sad Hulk missed craft fair. We'll have to hand make handmade idiosyncratic gifts for non-denominational holidays. Hulk self. Why is, why is this, this is the most recent tweet posted over a year ago, 7, December, 2013. Why, why is this Dana Durrell all over?

I think you might have actually gone to a craft fair that day. I don't know. I think when I started it, he was so prevalent on social media from my perspective that it was – exactly, exactly. But then it was exactly, exactly. But then it was, uh, from your perspective, you mean your friend kept popping up in your social media feeds? Pretty much.

Yeah. God, isn't that the worst when your friends are all up in your social media feeds, the people that you've chosen to follow? I know it's like, well, who gave you the right? How dare you?

Yeah. That's what I say a lot of times to my wife you know i'll see like pictures of our children that she posts on facebook how dare she yeah that's what that's what i say that's what i used to say to my cat before he died and he wandered through the hallways what makes what gives you the right to be so famous it's my turn now you need to be taken down a peg cat walking through the hallway in my in my in my site feed blowing up my site feed in this hallway cat his name was pd he's dead why you know all this is too confusing brendan talking hulk talk why make hulk parody account of dana friend why first hulk of Dana friend. Why? First, Hulk, sorry about your cat.

No, Hulk isn't. Hulk make account because Hulk think Dana fun person to parody. But Hulk can't explain why Dana, why Dana, why Dana? What is about Dana that make him ripe for parody, even in limited confines, socially, culturally of Saskatoon? Is he big name in Saskatoon politics? Is he big name in Saskatoon culture?

Why Dana? Why Saskatoon? Why now? Or then why Saskatoon is a very good question. Uh, I, wait, I'm Hulk now?

Yeah, do it, man. Okay. It's your dime. Because Hulk make account for purposes of Dana and Hulk am similar in many ways. But Hulk cannot make parody account of self without it seeming ridiculous i don't know what kind of weird knots of irony you guys tie yourself up in up there in saskatoon but you can't even speak plainly about this one simple thing hulk cannot make parody of Hulk one Hulk. Dana. Are you there?

Hello. Hi. Try to answer these questions plainly and simply. Okay. What do you do up there in Saskatoon? Well, I, I work at a skating rink right now and I'm an archeologist.

What? Classic combo. All right. Can we just stand by, Dana? Thank you very much for answering directly. Brendan, why don't you just say, my friend works in a skating rink and he's an archaeologist. He also has chased balloons and worked on a farm and done a lot of interesting things that make him.

I don't want to, I don't want to look, I don't want to listen to the guy who makes community radio ads anymore. I want to listen to the roller skating archaeologist. Hulk say, judge Hulk say you be quiet. Dana, do you have a, are you, do you have a, do you have a doc? Do you, are you, are you a doctor of archaeology? No, I'm a bachelor of archaeology. Okay.

Bachelor, Dana, roller skating rink archaeologist. It's ice skating. Oh, excuse me. Oh, right, of course, Canada. I apologize. Never mind. This is Saskatoon. I mean, I think what he's saying when he says that he works at an ice skating rink is that

the entire city of Saskatoon is an ice skating rink is that the entire city of saskatoon is an ice skating rink between the months of october and may and by archaeologist it means that when the summer warms up he digs out the lost toques and tries to return them to their owners it's heritage dana how come how come brendan did this and why do you not like it uh well chiefly i don't like it because as first answer my first question first answer my first question first why do you think brendan chose you to be the subject of his hulk parody account uh is there a specific reason is it just friendly mischief malice i think i'm i think i think I'm finally understanding that what Brendan really wanted to do was just talk and talk himself on Twitter, but couldn't do it about himself for some reason. So he picked you at random. Is it at random? What's going on? I think maybe he thought that I was like, well known. And maybe he was I don't know, maybe he was thought it was more popular,

like more popular than him. I don't know what. Okay. Would you say that in Saskatoon, you're what passes for a celebrity? I would not, I would not like to say that, but that I think more people, well, how do you define celebrity? Yeah. I don't know. You're the Saskatoonian. I would say that in this city, I think more people know who I am than I know who they are. And why would they know who you are more than you know who they are? Why? Well, on the radio station that Brendan works at, I have been a host for several years. Okay.

So you are something of a public figure. Yeah. You could say that. And what do you spin? Canadian rock and roll platters? Do you give some Canadian news out? Do you host some Canadian talk of the nation? The best Canadian rock music only.

That's that song from As It Happens. It goes... I wish to apologize on behalf of my bailiff for trying to reduce Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and all of Canada into a single punchline. I think there are probably 30 punchlines to Canada. And the truth is that Canada has, and Western Canada in particular, has a vibrant music scene. And Saskatchewan, or I should say Saskatoon, has a vibrant music scene of its own. Is that not correct, Dana? That's very true. Right.

And so it is absolutely possible that a man could have a job or a woman on a Canadian radio station playing the best Canadian rock songs ever, which I hope is the name of the show. And it is also equally plausible that that radio station would be a nonprofit. Now that I understand that you're a bit of a public figure, you would like him to take it down. Why does it bother you? Well, it's just, it makes me uncomfortable that there's this thing out there with my first and last name on it that I have no control over at all.

And to that point, we have an expert witness who we'll bring in after this break for official business. Official business? What? Yes. What kind of business? What? What? What? What? What? Official business, Jesse. Because it's the Max Fund Drive. The Max Fund Drive, or Max Fund Rive, depending on how you pronounce it, something we only do once a year for two weeks to support the production of this show throughout the year.

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And we really appreciate everybody who steps up and goes to MaximumFun.org slash donate to support this work that we do. We're just so grateful. All right, Jesse, justice is waiting. Shall we get back to the show? Absolutely. Let's get back to our expert witness and the guys from Saskatoon. We'll be back to tell you a little bit more about the Max Fun Drive when we come back a little bit later. All right, now we're back after that bit of official business.

And we are ready to welcome our expert witness. Please, gentlemen of Saskatoon, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please welcome the great writer, radio personality, documentarian, and friend of this court, author of The Psychopath Test, and the forthcoming book called So You've Been Publicly Shamed, Mr. John Ronson. Hi, hello there. I've listened to every word, and I have things to impart. to every word and I have things to impart. Well, why don't you begin imparting as soon as possible? Part of it, we don't just bring you into the court because you're a great writer and an amazing talker with a fantastic accent, but also you have direct experience with just this sort of thing, do you not? My story begins with me accidentally typing my name into Google and discovering that there was indeed another John Ronson on Twitter with my face and my name. My Twitter handle is John Ronson, his was John underscore Ronson. And as I stared in surprise at his timeline,

he tweeted something along the lines of, going home, I can't wait to make myself a lovely mussel and lemongrass stew. So I tweeted, who are you? And he replied, watching Seinfeld, can't wait for this evening. I'm going to have a wonderful dinner party. My goodness. That was his reply. Yeah. Now, anybody who knows me knows that there's nothing that terrifies me more than a dinner party. So this other John Ronson was a very different human being to me. And did you ever track down who was doing this and why?

Yes, I did. I became obsessed. In fact, I'd look at the other John Ronson's Twitter feed before I'd look at my own. And at one point, I woke up in the morning, checked the other John Ronson's Twitter feed, and in the night, he tweeted, I am dreaming about time and cock.

That, of course, is an English word for a rooster. Right. Quite frankly, even if I did dream about cock, I don't think I'd tweet about it. And it was being followed. This other Twitter feed was being followed by plenty of people who I knew from real life,

who were presumably wondering why I'd suddenly become so interested in fusion cooking and also candid about dreaming about cock. interested in fusion cooking, and also candid about dreaming about cock. So, yeah, so I did some investigating, and I tracked down the person behind this spam bot. It was a spam bot. And what does that mean to your mind, spam bot? Well, I didn't know. I'm sorry, go on. It was a robot that was working on behalf of Big Cock.

It was a robot that was working on behalf of Big Cock. It was some kind of automated thing. In other words, the person behind it was not actually sitting down and composing these imitative sentences, but had programmed some program to create sort of random comments in your name. Yeah, exactly. to create sort of random comments in your name. Yeah, exactly. When I finally met the person,

said that most of the content was generated from my Wikipedia page. But I didn't understand that because there's nothing on my Wikipedia page about lemongrass or cock. Well, I've made a recent edit that may surprise you. So it turns out that it was the work of three intellectuals. One was a lecturer from the University of Cologne. And one was something called a cyber culturalist or something along those lines. And another was a researcher from Warwick university or formerly of warwick university so you know serious people the kind of people who give tedx talks and why well stand hold the phone

right there have you ever been to tedx saskatoon because uh you know you you gotta you go to that thing thing you're gonna see some serious talks and all of a sudden it's some ice skating archaeologist doing Canadian human beatboxing or something. Go on. Well, I actually went to a TEDx talk once in Marrakesh, Morocco. One of the talks was a woman doing erotic hula hooping to Led Zeppelin. Well, what else do you expect from TEDx Marrakesh? Right. I'm sorry that I wasn't there.

So do you have any sense of why they were doing this to you? Yeah. A few months earlier, I had made a video for The Guardian about Spambots, where I sort of – I kind of poked gentle fun at an intellectual exercise to – you involving spam bots and and these people took exception they weren't involved in the in the in the original video so they felt called to defend the integrity of people who make spam bots yeah although they didn't call it spam bots because i found them and i said will you please take down your spam bot and he wrote back um we prefer the term infomer so this is some weird art project that they're working on where they're creating personalities online. And then they say, how dare you question the integrity of another personality online?

Or why are you coming down hard on artificial intelligence? Isn't that speciesist of you? Some kind of weird psych-out game that they're playing? Yes, that's exactly, that was exactly their argument. At one point they said to me, the internet is not the real world. Well, let's, let's let those people go to hell and let's focus on how it affected your life, both practically speaking in terms of your emotions. Did you have a good time while this was going on? Was it fun for you? No, I felt tightness in my chest. But John, I know you pretty well. You feel that every day, just when a cloud crosses the sky.

That is true. And I have to admit that when I was angry about other things, I would sometimes go onto the other John Ronson's Twitter feed as a kind of squeeze ball, so I could be angry about that instead of some other thing that I was angry about in my life. So in effect, it provided you a service. In a funny sort of way. But I found myself surprisingly discombobulated by this experience

because it made me realize that I've spent my life deciding what sort of human being I am. I'm feeling comfortable, uh, to, to an extent anyway, with my, um, human being, um, life decisions. Uh, and then suddenly there was this other John Ronson on Twitter that I had no control over. As you said, it's really weird to find that there's somebody with your own name and you've got no control over them. Well, I still see no explanation why you are a more valid John Ronson than this artificial intelligence. That's very speciesist of you. But moving on, I guess, Dana, did you experience any personal, emotional confusion or dismay along the lines of what John Ronson describes when you learned that this other Dana Durrell was out there in the world hulking it up on Twitter? Well, I never expected to meet another me running around, but there were several tweets that had nothing to do with me as a person.

There was one that I think said that I was trying out for the bike polo team or something and I've never done that. And there was something else about wearing a cardigan and I don't, I'm not known for my cardigan wearing. I'm not a dad. What would you say you are known for? Uh, t-shirts mostly. Oh boy. Well, oh man, Here comes Dana in one of his classic tees. Can you explain what you mean by you are known for T-shirts? Do you make them? Or do you wear T-shirts? I wear T-shirts, not cardigans.

I don't know why. I just remember a tweet that explicitly said, oh, Hulk Dana Durrell wears cardigan. It ripped or something like that. And this offended you? That it might get out there in the world? In Saskatoon? Like, do you hear that Dana's wearing cardigans now?

Jeez. You think that guy's going to play good rock and roll on the nonprofit radio now that he's wearing cardigans? There was one that implied that I had harassed thrift store workers. I see. And I took offense at that that do you feel that there is a reasonable likelihood of confusion among people who know you by in person or by reputation

who might think that this is actually your account that did happen that lots of people actually told me uh once the account came up that they thought it was me. And then I would tell them, oh, it's not me. Like, please don't think that it's me. And that kept happening. And one of my friends actually believed that for a year. Yeah, I believe you submitted some evidence here, a transcript of a conversation with a friend named Joanna. I will not name her last name, but I will just point out

that this is not the popular Twitter account, Hulk Joanna Graves. Joanna says, I actually thought that was you for a good year, and then I found out it wasn't you. Dana, you thought that was me. Joanna, I did. Dana, okay for a year.

Joanna, someone told me it wasn't you, and I was like, really? Because it really didn't seem like things that you were saying. And it's a, I mean, it's a compelling back and forth. Yeah. I should have told you all to grab some popcorn before I started reading it. And we have an audio file of the conversation as well that we'll make available online at

MidsommarFun.org. The only way to have made it more compelling would have been to introduce the music from As It Happens. You know, Jesse, on our last recording, you made me feel terrible about confusing first-time listeners with overly esoteric references. And now I am going to confess to you, sir. Probably a lot of first-time listeners, certainly I'm gathering from context, first-time Canadian listeners will know exactly what you're talking about, but I don't.

As it happens, it's a Canadian radio show. Is that what's going on? Very popular and also popular on American public radio. I do apologize to all the listeners who knew that. Well, I don't apologize to all the listeners who knew that when I did not because now they have a smug feeling of superiority, which I know is what fuels them every day. So, got it. Now I understand what's going on.

I feel a little bit better. Joanna thought that it was you. At least one other friend, I think, that you provided thought that it was you. And so there was the possibility of some confusion. Although, really, she wasn't confused because it was nothing. She said it was nothing that you would have said in the brief that was provided to me, Brendan. You claimed that the account was not meant to lampoon Dana personally, but the Saskatoon hipster in general. End quote. What are you talking about there? You can speak in regular English or Hulk language you choose.

Well, first, I just wanted to say that if the obscure cultural reference had had anything to do with As It Happens, we probably wouldn't be sitting here anymore. But I think that basically it was this thing where I could see Dana being a good almost mascot for that kind of thing, while I could simultaneously kind of have some some fun with it not just being what most people stereotypically refer to as a hipster, because I think that that is a useless. I think that that is a useless tag that brings two up. You use the term Saskatoon hipster, and I guess my question is, what is a Saskatoon hipster? And as a follow-up, is it possible that while Dana could be confused, that there would be a likelihood of confusion between the real Dana Durrell and Hulk Dana Durrell? Dana Durrell and Hulk Dana Durrell insofar as a Saskatoon hipster is known well for his t-shirts, his hatred of cardigans,

his love of polo playing and his abuse of thrift store employees. I don't, I don't know if I ever said that he abused anybody, but I I'm wearing a cardigan right now. And, um, I think that, uh,

uh, it's a matter of kind of, it's, it's just us and our friends, kind of. And I wanted to see if I could get any traction with it. What kind of traction would have been satisfactory to you? Well, I didn't think that anybody would think it was him. It was a foolish thought.

No, it only had his name in it and his picture, correct? Yeah, that's true. But I thought people thought more critically. What picture of this, what is the picture that you're using for the avatar here in the Hulk-Dana drill? Dana went to a local comic book convention to cover it for a

local website, and he got his picture taken, drawn, as the Hulk. And he posted it online, and that was where the idea came from. And do you have the rights to this image? I'll take that. I'll take that as an answer. John Ronson. Hello.

Hello. Welcome. Right now we have two fake Twitter accounts. One is this fake John Ronson. One is this fake Dana Durrell, both of relatively public people within their realms. Did you ever lose work or feel that a job was compromised because the fake John Ronson was out there talking about Celeriac? No. no um but my um negative feelings uh about the loss of identity was surprisingly real you can save you can save that wishy-washy stuff for for the fake internet civil lawsuit okay this is a

fake internet court of justice of criminal law yeah no i don't think i lost i don't think i lost any work fair enough did you ever approach twitter and say uh this is going on and i wanted to stop no i i quite honestly wouldn't have known where to start how how to do that well in fact you know it's a it's something that comes up quite a bit on twitter and i've had to invoke it myself there was an account using using the name John Hodgman and a picture from my Wikipedia page, and there didn't seem to be too much malice going on, and the account had been inactive for a while, and so I kind of left it alone. But there was another person who did another kind of fake John Hodgman and was saying things I didn't like and didn't want to have confused with me. And I did report it to Twitter because the, there are lots of these

fan parody accounts and the requirements just for, for everyone's information are that the avatar should not be the exact trademark or logo of the account subject. So that doesn't really apply to humans, unfortunately. And the account name should not be the exact name of the account subject without some other distinguishing words, such as not fake or fan since hulk is a fictional character hulk dana durell falls into a dare i say gray hulk area because there's one for the nerds uh because because it's it's not reasonable to imagine it's it's It's hard to interpret whether or not the real Dana Durrell would make this account himself as a Hulk version of himself. Or whether simply by putting Hulk in front of it would indicate to any reasonable viewer that it is someone else, a third party who is not connected with Dana Durrell. So we'll set that aside for a moment.

But in your case, John, it was just John underscore Ronson and your picture. It would seem that you would have a case to take to Twitter if you really wanted to shut this down. Yeah, Twitter just felt like this monolith, like the monolith from 2001. I wouldn't have known where the door was. Maybe it's changed now. This was a little while ago. This was maybe two years ago. Maybe it's changed now. I don't think while ago. This was maybe two years ago. Maybe it's changed now. I don't think it generally has. We've been trying to figure out how to get the unused Twitter handle at Pop Rocket for our new show, and it just completely baffles me.

I've spent like 20 minutes staring at websites trying to figure out which form I'm supposed to fill out and what things I'm supposed to write on the form. And the only success I've ever had in that area is when we had a similar situation with At Bullseye, the name of my public radio program. And that only changed. We only got At Bullseye when I think Chris Hardwick called somebody for us. Right, right.

Yes, and I think this is a complaint that lots of people have. Like, it's very easy. You know, like the mafia or the triads. It's very easy to join Twitter, but it's very hard to leave. Dana, did you ever consider taking your frustration to Twitter itself and asking them to shut down the account? I had not considered that. No, I don't. I assumed that they would ignore that. So I never bothered.

And you have your own Twitter account. Yes. It's a very similar to the Dana Durrell Hulk in name. Because it is your name, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Which was not hard for you to get because you're a DJ in Saskatoon. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I just snapped it right up. That's right. And and Brendan, is the Hulk Twitter, the Hulk Dana Durrell account active currently or no? It depends on your definition of active. It doesn't tweet. OK, so it doesn't tweet. Okay.

So it doesn't act. Right. But it's if. How is it if still? If it is. Sometimes. It hasn't tweeted according to my research here. It hasn't tweeted since December, 7 December 2013, I think I mentioned before.

Sometimes I get notifications and I think they're for my Twitter account and I open it up and maybe I'll see a tweet and I'll favorite it or I'll reply and then hastily delete the tweet.

I see you. All right. Okay. I got you. So you occasionally accidentally log into this account and take action as this account and favorite other tweets and that sort of thing. Yes.

And I noticed in one of these tweets that you favored, you mentioned, uh, it was a tweet by someone else that was favored that you favored as Dana Durrell Hulk. Some of these band names sound like they're from a John Worcester call. Yes. Does that ring a bell to you? Yeah. Oh yeah. I would have thought that was my account by John Worcester call. I,

I presume you're referring to calls into the best show on the best show.net with Tom Sharpling. Are you a listener to that show? I am indeed. What do you think Tom Sharpling would think about your opening up a fake Twitter account in your friend's name and then when asked to take it down, refusing to do so? He would probably call me garbage or some such. All right. Why do you not want to take it down at this point? That's tough. That's a hard question to answer. Given that there's no good reason for keeping it up, I can imagine it would be hard to answer why you must keep it up.

You have to convince me, obviously, sir, that it is imperative for some reason that you keep it up, whether that reason is personal, artistic, etc. I think it's a classic case of procrastination. the tweets or saving them or screen, screen grabbing them just for posterity for my own personal amusement, not for any revenge or, you know, blackmail purposes. And then it never got around to it. And then it just never happened. Just for purposes of posterity.

Just for purposes of posterity, is there a particular Dana Durrell Hulk tweet that you enjoy the most that you would like to read in Hulk voice now for us? It's funny because I looked at them like last week and I thought, you know, these aren't as funny as I thought they were. Shall I read one? Oh, that would be great. Try out for bike polo went about as expected. Hulk broke bike and didn't make team. Hulk find most clothes at rural thrift stores great because A, quirk factor. B, Hulk don't mind if pants pre-ripped best combo.

Hot air balloons are great, but they don't let you go up and make out in them like Hulk thought. These are all tweets from the Dana Durrell Hulk parody account, parodying the famous radio DJ of Saskatoon, Dana Durrell. A lot of them are about making out. Makes me sound like some kind of them are about making out. Well, they sound like some kind of make out bandit. Why would, why would the hot air balloon,

are you known throughout Saskatchewan? Why is it there a Twitter account called Dana Durrell make out bandit? That I would subscribe to. Stand by. Stand by logging out, creating new account. Are you known in Saskatoon as a makeout bandit?

I don't think so. No? You sure? I'm not sure. Durrell. I'm putting in my... It's been in Hodgman at Maximum Fun dot org.

Fake Dana Durrell. Password unknown. Username. Dana Durrell make out. Make out. Oh, it's too long. That's why there isn't one. Oh, that explains it.

Dana. Does it really have to be short like that? Dana Durrell make out. Yeah, I can only get it to Dana Durrell make-o. No, we're going to have to work on this later. I think we'll have to sort of vanity license plate it. All right, good. Dana, are you known as a hot air balloon make-out bandit?

Do you love hot air balloons? I had a job for a while chasing hot air balloons and catching them i want to live in canada so much where a young man can make his life working in a skating rink as a as a bachelor of archaeology and catching runaway hot air balloons this sounds like the greatest place on earth but for now i think i've heard everything that i need in order to make my decision i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm to chase this zeppelin all the way back to my chambers and make my decision in a moment. I'll be back. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Dana, is this about you worrying that someone will confuse this account with you? Or is this about you being upset that your friend is mocking you for being a

hipster? Uh, it might be a little, a little of a ladder, but I mean, he fits a lot of the same bills that I do. He, he dislikes trends that he doesn't participate in,

but he participates in other trendy things himself. So I don't know. Uh, he's a hipster on his own, right? It's more that I asked him to take it down. And I think as a good friend, he should have taken it down when I asked him to do so. Brendan, why wouldn't you do it when your friend asked you to do it? I remember having some sort of two-hour debate in the middle of the night at a party where somehow we ended up hugging and crying and not coming to a resolution about this. point of tears and you wouldn't take down your parody twitter account being followed by a hundred people most of whom are probably at john underscore ronson style spam bots i was probably also crying to be fair um because you couldn't you couldn't believe as you looked in awe at what a monster you were pretty much pretty much uh how do you think your chances are in this case brendan Pretty much. The just thing to do is for this account to be deleted and gone forever. And I think that that will prevail.

Okay, we'll be back with Judge John Hodgman's verdict. But first, I'm going to excuse myself to his chamber so we can talk a little bit more about the Max Fund Drive, the absolute last break of this show. Jesse, Jesse, Jesse, can I, I want to talk about the Max Fund Drive too. Do you mind if I just bust in for a little bit? Can I, I want to talk about the MaxFunDrive too. Do you mind if I just bust in for a little bit? I've put the whole case into my computer deliberator and it'll give me a result in a second. So I have.

So you just do that electronically? I have no idea. Yeah. It's like a Scantron test. It's just goes through a thing. I just pencil in some variables and number two pencil. I shoot it through the thing and it does some calculations. Oh, that's what this whole ticker tape full of prepositions is about. That's exactly right.

I got it. Got it. So look, I just wanted to talk about the Max Fund Drive because we've recapped all the thank you gifts, which are limited edition, only available until March 27th for new and upgrading donors at MaximumFund.org slash donate. After that, we destroy the gifts. We destroy them. So that's some incentive to give right now and become one of the 2,000 new and upgrading

members we're looking for? Yes, we're looking for, but also we need. Because why give? Why, Jesse? Well, you know, your money goes directly to support the production of this show. So that doesn't just mean paying talent. It means paying for a producer who calls all of the cases and talks to the people and talks them through setting up their equipment and schedules things and so on and so forth.

Yeah, Julia doesn't work for free. Absolutely not, nor should she. It means paying our friend Mark McConville to edit this show. It means paying for studios and equipment both here in Los Angeles and in Brooklyn where Judge John Hodgman's chambers are located. It means for paying for a studio when John is on the road so that he can continue to do the show every week. Your money really goes directly to support the production of this show. And also, you'll feel better. Think of how you feel right now before you've given. Tired, haggard.

Dry mouth. It happens. These symptoms can be easily alleviated and replaced with satisfaction, pride, enjoyment of knowing that you've contributed to the well-being of a thing that you like and maybe even love. This is a thing that I've been saying for the past couple of years. As culture has come at us from so many different places, so many different ways, and ways that are very confusing, so much of the culture that we get these days has the appearance of being free, right? Because either we get it off the internet,

forgetting that we're paying for that internet to bring it to our house, or we get it off of a streaming subscription service like a Netflix or a Hulu, forgetting that it's ad supported or forgetting that we're paying every month to do it. We kind of put all that money aside and just sort of let the credit cards take care of it

and let the auto pay take care of it. And it all seems like it's free, right? Or maybe it's just free, like this podcast. Like you get it every week for free, right? We don't ask you for money. We get a little bit of money from sponsors. And you feel like this is just part of the air that you breathe. And we love that because it allows you to become a part of the community

and feel that it is part of your life, which is what we want, right? At the same time, in all of this culture that's coming at us, it's hard to remember that it doesn't make itself. Professional people like Julia, like Mark, like Jesse, and talented amateurs like myself get together and give up their time in order to make something for you. And there are costs involved that aren't covered by sponsorship. I have always said and I will say, no, you are not compelled to like a thing. And even if you like it, you are not compelled to support it financially.

compelled to support it financially but if you do want to support a thing that you love if you care about it and want it to continue there is no better way there is no blog post you could write there is no tweet you could tweet there is no tumble you could tumble there is no animated gif i said gif that you could make of this show or any other and circulate on the internet that means the same thing to that piece of culture that you love than supporting it financially in the way that it makes money, right? Every time you support something financially in the way that it makes money, you are ensuring a little bit that it can come back and be a part of your world again and again and again. And I'm telling you right now, my friends who are, and even my foes within the sound of my voice, but most of you are my friends,

I think. If you like the Judge John Hodgman podcast, I and Jesse and Julia and Mark and all at MaxFun, thank you. If you want to support the Judge John Hodgman podcast in a way that matters, in the way that we make money, this is the way we make money. This is the time. This is how you do it. Go to MaximumFun.org slash donate and help out if you can. It's really simple. When you go to MaximumFun.org slash donate, you'll choose a level anywhere between $5 a month and $200 a month, something that you can afford. It'll process automatically every month. You don't have to worry about anything besides canceling it if you decide to cancel it. And your contribution

is split equally amongst the shows that you listen to. So mark the shows from MaximumFun.org that you listen to regularly, including Judge John Hodgman, we presume. And we will get directly a portion of that money. That's how all of the shows at MaximumFun.org get paid. These are creator-owned programs. This isn't some massive media conglomerate. This is a cooperative of creative people who have gotten together to make this. So the shows that you click on as listening to are the ones that get paid.

So anyway, I want to know what's going to happen to at Dana Durrell Hulk, who apparently is, and this is a direct quote, a capable young Hulk. So let's return to the courtroom and we'll let the judge dish out some justice. You can go to MaximumFun.org slash donate while you're listening. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Judge, think lot of issue at stake. Friendship. Why friend no do thing that asked. Justice.

Why other friend have to put up with confusion of friends around. Is one friend being nice or mean. Judge can't keep up this talk, but judge try. Also issue. David Reese say, Making cultural reference not the same thing as making culture. Making fun of friend not the same thing as making jokes. Using Hulk account thing not the same thing as coming up with idea for Hulk account.

Judge John Hodgman podcast wait on comment from real drunk Hulk, but he in Poland who know. Someday maybe he write back to me say what on his mind how he feel about Saskatchewan man take Hulk idea and run with it in small bore way that make fun of only one balloon chaser until then question mark. that make fun of only one balloon chaser. Until then, question mark. Real question, does this infringe on Dana Durrell? Does Dana Durrell suffer? Does Dana Durrell suffer confusion, professional and personal, to point that Brendan must have freedom of speech and parody abridged.

At moment, Dana Durrell Hulk account, too confusing, unclear what is, not really funny or good. That said, only confusion matter. good. That said, only confusion matter. Remove avatar, replace with personal illustration, or other thing one has right to. In description, clarify this parody account, not actual Dana Durrell. Account allowed to stand. Just because not funny or good,

not mean Brendan no have right to post account unless Dana Durrell can provide evidence of damage, no damage caused, no reasonable confusion, even among friend who was confused. She understood this, not what my friend say. This what Dana Durell Hulk say. Advice to Brendan, try create real character, distinct and different from real Dana Durell. Advice to Brendan. Consider whether or not this worth it to you to hurt friend for years in order to create this anodyne meaningless account. Advice to Brendan. out of artistic integrity and create something new under own name without using Hulk meme from

other guy in Poland or whoever started this thing. Maybe bizarro Brendan? Me think good idea. No, me think bad idea. But for meanwhile, provided avatar changed and description of account changed to clarify parody, account may stand so that listeners of Judge John Hodgman can go and look at this terrible account. That punishment enough. This sound of gavel. Judge John Hodgman rule. Thank John Ronson. That all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. How do you feel about this resolution, Dana? Well, I'm hoping that Brendan will heed the advice and just take it down. But I guess it's up to him ultimately. Brendan, what do you think you're going to do?

I will probably do exactly what the judge suggested for a brief period of time with the avatar and then take it down. Judge not suggest. Judge order. You in violation of rights right now. This Canadian felony. You use artwork and likeness without permission. This must change before end of day. Cease, desist. You in violation potentially of Twitter terms of service. Make clear this parody account.

So friend Joanna Graves no longer wonder what happened to my friend. Why he Hulk now. Now you talk. I will comply with the scary Hulk judge. I'm a complete sentence. the scary Hulk judge. I, I'm a complete sentence. Complete sentence. Good.

Oh, no, you must wait until judge John Hodgman listeners. See, see what you have done within the week in, in quotation marks week too much, too much irony and sarcasm in Saskatchewan. John Hodgman, Hulk, leave. Dana, Brendan, I have one last question for you now that you've been sufficiently shamed.

I'm trying to figure out if this is something I really heard or if it was just a dream, but I think I heard a story on As It Happens one time about a family of possums that were apparently frozen and dead underneath a Canadian person's porch, but then they put them in the oven and brought them back to life. That seems like it could be a real story on As It Happens, right? That sounds rife for possum puns. That's not the question. The question is that seems like it could be a real story on As It Happens, right? It's believable. Yeah, I think so too.

Well, gentlemen, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks to John Ronson, the author of So You've Been Publicly Shamed, which I read all of in galleys because I'm an insider and I loved it. Maybe even my favorite of John Ronson's books, all of which I love very much. So go run out, run, don't walk and go get that book because it's really wonderful. Thank you again,

John. Thank you. And thank you for that nice thing that you just said. It's all true. Thank you. Our producer, Julia Smith, our editor,

Mark McConville. You can find us online at MaximumFun.org. You can talk about the show in our subreddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com, in our forum at Forum.MaximumFun.org, and on Facebook where there is a Maximum Fun group and a group of Max Fun Judge John Hodgman fans. This week's episode was named by Vernon Marr. Thank you, Vernon. If you want to name an episode of Judge John Hodgman in the future, go to Twitter and follow us. John is at Hodgman.

I am at Jesse Thorne. No underscores there. Or you can like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. And remember, it's the MaxFunDrive. Go to MaximumFun.org slash donate. This not bizarro John Hodgman. This not bizarro Judge John Hodgman podcast. Podcast begin now.

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