Judge John Hodgman - Improvable Cause

Episode Date: September 29, 2016

Madeline files suit against her friend, Jason. They formed an improv group together and Madeline would love to perform a type of improv that is a little out of the box and not normally done in their hometown of Chicago. Jason insists that this form is silly and he is strongly opposed.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, improbable cause. Madeline filed suit against her friend Jason. They formed an improv group together. Madeline would love to perform a type of improv that's a little out of the box, not normally done in their hometown of Chicago. Jason insists that this form is silly and is strongly opposed. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. What crushed my soul was hanging out with bitter, desperate comics backstage. They're a different breed than the bitter yet eager psyches in the wings of an improv theater. Struggling stand-ups have externalized

self-loathing into an art form. They're a hunching, quaking, unshaven lot. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, would you please swear the litigants in? Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that his entire life is scripted? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? John Hodgman steps into courtroom. Oh, sorry. Those are the stage directions of my life. Read the wrong thing. Everything else, though, is perfectly scripted, such as this. Madeline and Jason, you may be seated.

And hello, Bailiff Jesse Thorne. Welcome back to the fake courtroom. I hope you had a pleasant summer. I did, but now I'm back like cooked crack. Let's do this. All right. Madeline and Jason, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you guess the source of the quote that I quoted as I entered

the fake courtroom? Jason, Madeline has filed suit against you, so you get first choice. You may guess first or make Madeline guess first. I will make Madeline guess first. Thank you. All right. And Madeline, am I saying your name correctly? Is it Madeline or Madeline or Madeleine? It is Madeline. Thank you. Madeline. Madeline. Okay.ine? It is Madeline. Magdalen. Magdalen. Okay, go ahead, please. You may guess first. I really thought I was going to nail this one.

I am not sure. Well, you do have to make a guess, but why did you think you were going to nail it? I thought it might have to do with the Bat Brothers episode of your podcast. Oh, because of the improv game, The Bat, that we're about to discuss. Yeah, that would have been very clever of me had I not been dumb and thought of something else. I wish I had consulted you first. But instead,

you must make a guess. Go and guess, please. Who doesn't like improv? Maybe some sort of stand-up comic who's bitter about improv and would you like to name a stand-up comic i don't know um i would say me but everyone knows that i'm not a stand-up i am a storyteller yes yes sir judge hodgman at the end the day, aren't we all just storytellers?

Oh, no, no. There's a very specific genre of storytelling. I'm a storyteller and humorist. Who did you say? Mark Maron? Sure. Mark Maron. Put it in the guest book.

All right, Jason, you're up. You can prolong this no further. What is your guess? Some autobiography of a comic. I am going to guess robin williams all guesses are wrong yes there was no way for even one of them to be right because they're all wrong uh but i feel that maybe madeline you were um not fulfilling the first job of an improv comedian or an improviser and listening. Because I don't think I listened to the quote. The quote was about how standups have externalized self-loathing into an art form, but improvisers, which I think is what they're called, are a different breed.

They have a bitter yet eager psyche. So it was, in fact, an improviser that I was quoting and not a standup. Someone who likes improv and likes saying abbreviated words for perfectly good words like improvisation. And who, you guys are both in chicago if i told you that this was a incredibly accomplished talented chicago improv who would you guess it was i would guess del close no good one though that's a good guess thank you i would guess mcnapier i don't even know who that is scott adds it you guys scott No. Good one, though. That's a good guess. Thank you. I would guess McNapier. I don't even know who that is.

Scott Adsit, you guys. Scott Adsit, of course, is an actor and an improver and a friend of this court and someone that I got to know on the set of the remake of Arthur. I trust you guys both saw the remake of Arthur. I did on an airplane. Yeah, we fixed it. We fixed that terrible movie. We made a good one. And Scott invited me to go see him do improv in New York with his frequent scene partner, Mr. John Lutz, also of 30 Rock. And I said, no way am I going to go see you do a dumb purple crayon. Because I went to college with a bunch of improvisers.

And I found those shows to be dumb and tendentious. Largely because they never invited me to play with them. And I was jealous and mad. But I went to go see the show. And let me tell you something. Scott Adsit and John Lutz absolutely changed every opinion I had about improv comedy. From bad to good. All settings were set to good.

They were so, so incredibly talented. This guy created a whole play, a whole 90-minute play out of one word, which I think was, they needed a suggestion of an album. And the suggestion was Toto by, uh, no. What's the album by Toto? Africa, Africa.

Yeah. Um, the whole, the scene they did was one of the most moving scenes where they were switching, you know, it was about a mother and a daughter getting ready for the daughter's prom. And then they would switch places. And suddenly one was the daughter and the other was the mother. And then they were switching, you know, it was about a mother and a daughter getting ready for the daughter's prom, and then they would switch places, and suddenly one was the daughter and the other was the mother, and then they were, the dates and the mother was a chaperone,

none of it had anything. Who knows where Toto came into it, but it was an incredible thing to see. Scott, if I had been quicker on my feet, I might have had Scott Adsett come in and be an expert witness on this podcast, but I am not an improviser. I am a sluggish, plodding writer and storyteller. So there you have it. No Adsit, you just have me and my justice. Madeline, you bring Jason before this court because you are both in an improv team in Chicago, which is arguably the Paris of improv, right? This is the capital of improv, worldwide improv, right? I think that's fair.

That's right. Del Close took his mighty hand and smashed it into the earth and pulled up from the bowels of the earth the art form of improv and gave it to Chicago. It is, Judge Hodgman, the one city where no entertainers can expect to make a living, and thus improvisers are on equal footing with all other forms of comedian. Yeah, exactly.

All actors, all blues musicians, and all improvisers are all on equal footing in Chicago. And they're all driving cabs. In any case, what is the name of your improv team there in Chicago? It is the Icelandic Ponies. The Icelandic Ponies. And do you perform at a theater or what's the deal? We're a relatively new indie team. We perform kind of wherever wherever there's a lot of

smaller venues we uh frequent gas station bathrooms sure that yeah not far from it sometimes hot dog non-sandwich stands uh sure i like the idea of an indie improv team like you're fighting against those sellout improv teams from the Magnet Theater or whatever. Right, you guys are non-affiliated with any of the major comedy theaters in Chicago. Is that what I take that to mean, that indie thing? Yeah, we all met through classes

at one of the major theaters, but formed our own team outside, as most tend to do. And one of the major theaters in Chicago, obviously Second City. Second City. There's IO Improv Olympics, where we met. There's the Annoyance. And then there's a whole plethora of newer ones, too. And which one did Del Close found in 1325 A.D.?

Io, as his face is painted on the inside of it. Gotcha. Legendary godfather of improv. Yes. One day he just stopped saying no and started saying yes and, and all of a sudden Artform was born. And he could never say no ever again and that's why people could cheat him for a lot of money just go up to him can i have a hundred dollars tell close you go yes and also my watch he also allegedly ate marijuana for breakfast like it was

cereal really with milk on it and everything yeah i read i read. No, but with a spoon out of a bowl. Okay. Like a rice checks or like a cream of wheat? Like a hot porridge? A hot hemp porridge? No, more like a rice, like a rice checks. Children who are listening, ask your parents. But now back to the case. So you guys are the Icelandic ponies. You are not, you're not having any truck with all those corporate improv groups. You've been together for about how long, Jason? Oh, I would say we've been together about four months. Oh, okay. Brand new.

And what is your age, Jason? 24. 24. And Madeline? 25. 25. So you are relatively recent college graduates, perhaps. I don't mean to presume your educational level.

And now you've moved to Chicago and you're going to make it big as an improv star. Is that right? Yeah. Do you do you desire to be actors or comedians or take this to a professional career? Or is this just something fun while you're whatever you don't whatever you do in chicago we'll say it's something fun right now until we make it big that way our dreams don't get crushed right very good yeah well don't worry they'll get crushed no matter what happens they'll get crushed judge hodgman my brother is a chicago-based improviser so if you're wondering what people do

in chicago uh walk dogs professionally oh okay, okay. Great. I, I thought they would dig holes into pizza crusts to make them deep. Thus ends my cliched knowledge of Chicago. Oh, also world's fairs with serial killers in them. That's right. I forgot about that. That's another Chicago thing that let's move on. So Jason and Madeline, your dispute is over a particular improv game called The Bat. Madeline, you mentioned it earlier. Tell us what The Bat is and why it is controversial within your group, The Icelandic Ponies. Sure. So it's a little tricky to really define a bat. It seems to have very mysterious origins, according to Google. There's a form that seems to be a little bit more concrete called the blind herald, which is a complicated long form of improvisation done in the dark. is kind of like a single scene radio type play where the improvisers would get a word,

maybe a genre or a location, sit down, the lights go down, and they kind of would enter maybe with a soundscape and then there could be narration, kind of play into an old timey vibe the way we had done it. But I don't know that there's a really defined structure of it. It's improv comedy in the dark. That's the defining aspect of it. That's what I believe.

Right. And that's why it's named after a nocturnal animal, which is a bat. Yes, sir. Okay. And you would like, you did this kind of improv in DC, our nation's capital? Yes, sir. Is that where you're from uh no i'm from denver well you move all over the place oh yeah you go wherever the improv is for sure all right and you'd like to do it with your new group the icelandic ponies but jason says Jason says, no way. Jason, why? It's not a very commonly accepted form outside of just doing it for fun. I picture it as locking an audience in and turning the lights off on them after they paid money. Doesn't really sound like a fun improv experience for them. Can I ask you a question, Jason? In your imagination of this scenario, would you just spring this on them?

Oh, yeah. That's exactly how I picture this is they sit down after they paid money and we say, can we get a suggestion? Thank you. Lights off. So you think that they would have paid money for a lights on comedy show, then you would be like, aha, but there's a twist. Exactly. Because the way indie teams work, we don't advertise what kind. There's so many different kinds of forms of improv. We're not advertising like, hey, we're going to do this form tonight. We usually decide it right before

the show. So we're not advertising that out. So people would come to see the group and not so much the form that we're doing. Yeah. If there's anything that an audience going to an improv comedy show desire, it's predictability. They don't want to be surprised. They want to just to unfold the way it's supposed to unfold. Can I add something to this point, though? Sure. This my college team tried did the bat and I felt it was successful. But we did spring it on the audience and turn the lights off and made sure no lights would show at all and it would be pitch black. And it got a really sweet, ugh, kind of reaction. And it seemed to be a crowd pleaser.

Yeah, I mean, are you really concerned, Jason, that the audience is going to feel cheated because they don't get to see your weird comedian bodies up there moving around? Well, I'd like to think that my weird body is part of the drawing factor. I'm also afraid I'm not going to be funny if people can't see my weird body. Elaborate on that. How weird is your body, and what do you do with it for the laughs? And you're going to have to describe it because we are currently in a non-visual medium. And you're going to have to describe it because we are currently in a non-visual medium. I'd say chicken legs, rounder middle, very defined red beard.

It has a certain style that at least I can be recognized with. The classic chicken leg red beard style of comedy? Yes, exactly. Are you concerned that your form of comedy is so visual and plays so much on your own looks and facial expressions and movement and that you that you don't have the same. Let's say toolbox in a non-visual medium. Well, not exactly that. It's just how long it took me. Notice how long it took me to come to the word toolbox. I'm talking about in a non-visual medium. I'm talking about verbal dexterity is what I was trying. The words I was trying to find if I were intelligent, go on. So if we want to use the toolbox analogy, you open a toolbox and you have that first shelf.

It's just like taking that first shelf off and you don't have that anymore. So you don't have half your tools. So visualization, um, and what your stage placement is, is half of what we can offer the audience. But I mean, wouldn't you, as an artist want to, if you felt that your verbal dexterity as a, and your imagination expressed through words is not as strong as your physical play, wouldn't that be something you'd want to work on? Oh, absolutely. And that's why it is best done in a classroom environment or a rehearsal environment, which we have done in the past. Okay.

And why was that not satisfactory, Madeline? Naudlin. Moodlong. Well, I was actually not with Jason when when he has done i believe it was a blind herald a very complicated non-lighted form and i don't know why that's that's done in classrooms i think it's kind of messy uh to go through many many scenes in the dark without much guidance um i would argue that a really good bat is simple. It's a lot of good group work and listening and that it actually frees us to try different voices, to play a little differently,

to work on our listening, as I demonstrated the need for myself earlier. But I think a lot of people have a negative bat or blind herald experience in class because they're thrown in without practice. Do you want to become the Del Close of non-visual improv? I think it does have a novelty here. The fact that it's, you know, it seems like it came out of Chicago, but I thought it would have a nice novelty to it, but it was really shot down by Jason pretty hard. Jason in particular? Well, it started with Jason when I approached him about forming this team, and he must have informed the rest of the team we ended up forming about my, you know, ridiculous idea to do this form, which I had put aside after his reaction. to do this form, which I had put aside after his reaction. And so they all decided to... He's been a bit of a ringleader in mocking me about it, I'd say.

This sounds like a fun team. We have a lot of fun. How many other people are in it? There's eight people in it. Yeah, eight-ish. Eight total. So you two plus six. See, I do math.

Correct. Yeah, yeah. What are the names of the other ones? Spinny? Pikey? Flabby? Harold? I don't know. Just tell me their names. Lexi, Cody, JT. They all have those names?

I was just, okay, good. You're pretty close. Lexi, Cody, JT, JTE. And they're all anti-bat. Are you the only pro-bat? So I feel like none of them have actually explained why they don't want to do a bat. I think they just have so much fun at this point, wasting our time making fun of it with Jason,

making bat puns, turning the lights off during practice, that it's just become more of a fun thing to do than an actual argument. Right. It's a fun way to hurt your feelings. I got it. Go ahead, Jessie. Do you think that it's possible that they're scared to do a bat because they don't think they have what it takes? I do think that's possible. Whoa.

You just sharpened the knife for her to plunge into Jason's heart. Thank you, Bill and Jessie. Good use of your verbal dexterity toolbox. That's why I'm called the whetstone of comedy. So, Jason, how do you respond to that accusation? I don't think it's a fear thing. I think it is a nice tool to practice those skills, but it is not something for a new group to put on stage at the very start of their formation. at the very start of their formation.

Plus, at this point, she's right. Mocking has become such a thing of camaraderie in the team that if you take that away, you just take apart part of the team. Sure. And that's not what we want. Teamwork is an essential part of improv. And when you take away one of our main inside jokes that we currently have running, that weakens us. Yeah, well, it's true that groups do gain camaraderie

and social solidification through the outcasting and scapegoating of an individual outlier. Especially when she enjoys it. I don't know if I'd enjoy. Enjoy is not the correct word. Okay, so how does this thing, just Jason, explain to me the ha-ha, funny, make fun of the bat. How does it, what form does it take?

Mostly it started when we were discussing our first show and what form we were going to do. So this is hours before the first performance. And we were like, well, we could do party for six. We could do just a montage. And then I just brought up, well, what about the bat? And then. Sarcastic. Sarcastically. And then I just brought up, well, what about the bat? And then... Sarcastic. Sarcastically. And then people were, ha ha. And then eventually people went to, well... You do need to work on your non-visual comedy because that was not sarcastic at all. You were

like, what about the bat? When sarcasm would be, what about the bat? Yeah, I can see why you're scared. Then eventually we just started describing things that were like the bat and it basically wasted an hour of us doing different descriptions of a bat.

And that's where she's bringing up wasted time is because we spent a whole time we could be practicing on talking about a bat. Like a physical bat. Like be practicing on talking about a bat, like a physical bat. Like an actual bat. She mentioned bat puns, and you know this court's position on puns.

Position is no. Yeah. So what is a bat pun that Jason was making? I don't know. Like, my memory's not great, another skill I should work on, but I feel like probably something, you know, like, oh, we don't need to practice, we'll just wing it, ha ha ha, and lights turn off or something. Hang on, hang on, but I feel like probably something, you know, like, Oh, we don't need to practice. We'll just wing it.

Ha ha ha. And lights turn off or something. Hang on, hang on, hang on, stop it. Stop. I'm giving you Jason five seconds for you to deny that was ever said. Four,

three. That was never said. I disagree. Was it said or not said? Jason, what's a pun? What's a bad pun that you will stand behind? I don't stand behind puns.

Well, someone's lying. It could have been another teammate. I know there have been bad puns thrown at me constantly. And this is an effort to make you feel bad? Do you feel bad? I'm not really sure. I think it's just for their own enjoyment at this point. How do you feel when they are making fun of the bat, metaphoric and actual?

When it begins, I don't mind it. I don't mind being the butt of a joke. It happens a lot. Then, you know, half an hour, an hour into our practice before, say, our first ever show, half an hour, an hour into our practice before, say, our first ever show, I kind of feel exasperated and like nothing I do can get us back on track and that we've wasted a lot of time on a form we're not going to do. And you guys have been together for four whole months at this point. So it's not like you have a lot of data that this is going to continue. This could just be a fad that's going to disappear in two seconds. I would hope so. Is that what you want me to order? I mean, are you willing to accept no bat if I prohibit any more references to bat during practice? Honestly, what I'd prefer is that you order us actually do a bat because we have relatively low stakes in our shows. They're very

small, kind of like indie shows. And, you know, I feel like everyone has made fun of it so much that I just want to see them have to do it. And if it's terrible, they can make fun of it as much as they want. But so much time has been spent on this form that I feel like we might as well try it. What's the worst that could happen? What is the decision-making process for this group generally, Jason? Mostly a democracy. I mean, with eight people, we can get a majority on most issues that come up. But clearly, the majority does not want to perform a bat. Yes. So Madeline, do you disagree that this is

a democracy? It is a democracy. You want this court to overturn a clear and simple 7-1 majority? I don't think it would be bad for this group to have some sort of leadership or some sort of a little bit more of a firm direction.

Maybe a little kick. A little kick would get us moving in a direction a little more. Who should be the leader? JT? Scuzzy? Pikey? Swanzy? As far as I'm concerned, anybody but Piggy. Yeah, that's historically

on desert islands, that does not go well. Yeah, if I could suggest, maybe you could replace the bat puns with a chant. Like, kill the pig, slit her throat, spill her blood. Yikes. Maybe get yourselves a conch. You guys catch the reference? These are things from Lord of the Flies.

Lord of the Flies. Good, good. Just making sure. Yeah. Because if you didn't catch it, it would start to sound pretty weird. Yeah, that's why I felt like I needed to clarify. You know, it's hard doing comedy when nobody can see you. Yeah, and when

you can't see each other. I feel like it's very imaginative, as you two describe it, or not describe, demonstrate, and radio has shown, that it's a very freeing, beautiful way to do any sort of art form.

You know, Judge Hodgman, I've seen a bat. I saw The Swarm, a wonderful, legendary improv group featuring Andy Daly, among other people. Yes. Perform a bat at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater in Los Angeles. It was pretty amazing, I have to say. In the hands of superb improvisers, it can be a heck of a show. I'm not so convinced about Jason's assertion

that you're leaving things on the table because you are working with the imaginations of the people who are in the house. If anything, by withdrawing one of their senses, their imaginations have to work even harder. Exactly. Jason, how imaginations have to work even harder. Exactly. Jason, how do you respond to this idea that Madeline has that the group should have a leader who has a little bit more autocratic power? I'm glad you brought that up.

Oh, my. Because she approached me originally to help co-found this group. We split up members that we wanted to join and reached out to them individually and asked. But as time has progressed, things have gone down to scheduling issues where someone needs to book rooms, someone needs to make a schedule. And I have given Madeline that opportunity to take over that responsibility and in essence be that leader that she is requesting. But somehow it always comes back to me. So I am the one booking the rooms. I am the

one scheduling things. I am the one checking schedules, sending out doodles to make sure that we can have the majority of the group there for rehearsals. So when she's requesting a leader, that would be me. So I don't think she wants to put me in charge of deciding this when I am clearly against the bat. So clearly one of the two of you, though, would be the leader because you co-founded the group together. Right, Madeline? Yeah, but I have gotten a little busier since then. Well, right. But there can be just because you're busy doesn't mean you can't be the creative director and arbiter of which shows you do.

The fact that he's doing all the scheduling, that doesn't mean that he gets to be the leader. That just means he's the factotum. Yeah, by the same token, Jason, by by being the person who makes the trains run on time, you're in the perfect position to seize dictatorial control like it sounds you want to do. It sounds to me like your group needs a leader, a creative director. And it's going to be one of the two of you. And there's only one way to settle this trial by non-visual improv. So you guys are going to take four minutes to do a bat on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Everyone who's driving right now

listening to this show, close your eyes and keep them shut so we can fully engage your imagination. And you let me know what prompt you need to get going. Oh, I was afraid of this. How could you not have known this was coming?

Are you that blind? You come on my podcast to buzz market your indie improv group and you think I'm not going to make you do some improv in my court for my own sick amusement? God, I wish there was some sort of analogy we could draw with regard

to how blind she's been. As blind as a daredevil from the comic book daredevil i know but with incredibly enhanced improv comedy skills when you get blinded by a radioactive canister of stuff suddenly you're able to do the herald really good and you are thus forced to fight human trafficking in your town. By the way, your suggestion is an occupation and the occupation is a crime fighter. No, no. Let them come up with what they want to as the prompt.

Okay. Would you like us to start with some sort of opening or just go into a straight scene? Look, I don't know. I don't want to hear. No one wants to hear an opening. Look, I don't know. I don't want to hear. No one wants to hear an opening. I can assure you openings are just a thing that improv people do to make themselves feel more artistic.

That's fair. Okay. Not unlike bats. Okay. Can we just get a suggestion of a location and maybe a genre? Africa by Toto. Africa by Toto and a genre? The works of Toto.

Toto is the genre? Yeah, New Wave, I guess. Yeah. They also did the soundtrack for Dune, David Lynch's Dune, if that helps. Sounds great. Okay. Well, you've procrastinated long enough, you now have two minutes. Okay.

And lights down. Well, hello there. Mm-hmm. What a nice set of legs on such a strange lady. Yes. It is how I get my customers in the nighttime.

I knew she had a look about her, something mysterious in her eyes. Popsicles here, get your popsicles. Two dollars. Yes, and she was selling popsicles with oh my goodness jason you would deny me uh uh can i just say that jason is intentionally throwing this scene what are you breaking i can't even i can't see what's going on right now are you breaking the fourth invisible darkened wall? I would see if you could see Jason's expression that he is intentionally throwing our improv scene. But you guys aren't supposed to be seeing each other's expressions.

I closed my eyes in the beginning. Jason, did you ever close your eyes during this? Yes. He was staring at me. How did he throw the scene? I think he knew that I was attempting, while very nervously, to do a film noir-esque aside, and he yelled popsicles here, which was a denial of the reality we were trying to co-create. Are there not popsicle salesmen in a film noir?

Jason, you know what you did. I can see it in your eye. First of all, before I even go into my chambers, I'll say you shouldn't look at each other ever again. And second of all, I've heard everything I need to, and I've only heard it. In order to make my decision, I'm going to go fumble my way down this pitch black hallway into my completely darkened chambers and get into my sensory deprivation tank. chambers and get into my sensory deprivation tank. And I will slowly transmute into a protoplasmic wolfman a la Altered States and emerge later with my judgment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jason, how do you feel about your chances in this case? Well, after that demonstration of how awfully the bat went, I feel fairly strong about this.

Wow. Madeline, would you say that that was an illustration of how awful the bat went? I would say I just I might have put a nail in my coffin right there. That was not a great demonstration of the form. Usually there'd be a little more teamwork and I might not be so completely terrible. Jason, do you think it's possible that that was a demonstration of what a jerk you are? Oh, 100%, yes.

Huh. Hey, Madeline, I may be taking a stab in the dark here. No pun intended. But how many dudes and how many ladies are in your improv team? Actually, we're pretty well balanced. I think it's a four and four group. Do you feel like the situation might have been different at all if you, Madeline, were a dude and Jason were a lady? if you, Madeline, were a dude and Jason were a lady? Um, possibly. I don't know. I think that we've got a good,

we've got a lot of strong-willed women on our team. I think that Jason's just got more of that fun class clown vibe to him, and I've got more of, like, a frantic, uh, I don't know. What's the word? Mom. Mom, yeah, like a frantic mom feel. It's just more fun to go with Jason. Well, we'll see who Judge John Hodgman goes with when we come back in just a second. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast,

The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever

you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o ah we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Ow! Ow! Oh, ah! It's so dark. I turned off all the lights.

Can't find my way. Oh, is this the microphone? Okay, good. You may be seated. So it is unusual for this court to be asked to overturn a clearly democratically arrived at decision in a group of collaborators eight to no seven to one against you, Madeline. It would seem that this is asked and answered, basically. And as well, so much fun making has been made at the expense of the bat, including loathsome puns, that it is clear that not only is the vote established, but the feelings are deep and mutual among your co-Icelandic ponies to not do this thing

that you ask them to do. Moreover, it seems to me that you have a difference of creative vision from your cohort that suggests that perhaps you should go and form your own separate sideline project where you do whatever you want with one or two other people and work on your non-visual improv and let your group do what it wants to do. And at the same time, what you want to do, which is regular lights on improv. And it would seem that the reasonable order that I should make is simply no bat and also

no more making fun of the bat so that you can be more productive doing your regular thing and then order you Madeline to go do a sideline completely in the dark blindfolded improv group over here I mean their

history has shown there's room for more than one improv group in Chicago. But then that thing happened. And specifically, I awarded myself the authority to name one of you leader of the group based upon what happened in your on-air imp impromptu, by design, improvisational bat. And immediately, I did not need to see what was happening to appreciate that Jason was sabotaging the experiment. On purpose. He was not listening.

He was not playing with you. He made a completely non-sequitorial reference to popsicles for sale, which is, contrary to his assertion, nothing that has ever been said in a film noir, nor anywhere else for that matter. I have never heard, gone to a ballpark even, and heard a popsicle hawker selling popsicles at the top of his lungs. Not only is ba-ba-ba here,

ba-ba-ba here, a cliche, but a completely imaginary cliche. One that does nothing to set a reality whatsoever. Judge Hodgman, is it possible that you've just never been to a ballpark in old-timey New York, where

Jason's character was from? They hadn't even invented ice then. Never mind popsicles. But do you think I'm going to be mean about Jason alone? No. Let me tell you something, Madeline.

As a man, me, who was weaned on the written and radiophonic humor of Garrison Keillor, I learned and owe a creative and cultural debt to Garrison Keillor that I will never stop owing and I will never badmouth him. But I can tell you that in the world of comedy today, you do not want to be compared to Garrison Keillor. And therefore you do not want to be doing any radiophonic style film noir pastiches. That was a terrible choice. It was.

You both failed. But I think, Madeline, you failed in the eager, perhaps bitter, but eager spirit that Scott Adsit outlined at the top of the show via his quote. And Jason, you failed by simply being bitter and vengeful and spiteful. You did not bring an improv ethos to that moment of improv, but a stand-up ethos, which is to say competitive and sabotage-y. You basically ran over time just to get her. Well, thus, my ruling is upended,

and I'm just going to free-form a new ruling. Improv style. Bebop jazz. Here it comes. Madeline, you're the creative director of this organization. Jason, you gotta the creative director of this organization. Jason, you got to play with this group or go do stand-up. Maybe that's what you want to do with your life.

But in the meantime, you do a good job of scheduling. And you are the producer. Those are sounds of gavels, by the way. Please rise as Judge John Hodgkin. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, I got more, I got more. You keep gaveling. I thought one gavel is usually how many gavels you do. Well, that's because, you know why?

Because the spirit of improv is not not trying new things and different things. It is trying new things and different things. And though there are great games that allow for mutual collaborative imaginative play, and that have been proven to do that over time, such as the Herald and such as the blah blah and the Dinner for Six and the Bat or whatever it is, just playing by the same rules as always, you're never going to get anywhere either creatively or professionally. playing by the same rules as always,

you're never going to get anywhere, either creatively or professionally. So sometimes you've got to throw in an extra gavel just to keep it fresh and keep it interesting and try new things. That's just an example of it, Jesse. Don't go. And with that in mind, right, I think that you have to.

If the idea comes to your mind in improv, you have to. If the idea comes to your mind in improv, you have to try it. And so to get this troop working together, cohesively, productively, and without any of this bitterness, it's clear that you got to get this bat out of your system at least once and then see how it goes. And then take a democratic vote as to whether to ever do it again. And I would say, don't call it the bat. Madeline, you're the creative director now. Devise some new non-visual lights out game to play create different rules perhaps the mole you know the name of the blind animal doesn't matter

it's gonna be called the madeline or the madeline and jason or sabotage or something else. Don't do film noir pastiche. Don't do other people's games. I mean, to learn, yes. But if you want to, I think that there is absolutely something you can do in non-visual improvisation. I wouldn't be a podcaster if I didn't believe in it. And of course, there is the great on hiatus improv non-visual podcast super ego. And the current non-on hiatus improv non-visual podcast Spontanea Nation with Paul F. Tompkins. Listen to them. Listen to him. Think of what would work, what would bring chills and excitement out of an audience and

develop a new game and call it whatever you want and schedule it. And everyone has to go along with this and we'll put it up on the MaximumFun.org page and we'll advertise it and we'll get everyone there to go and we'll get feedback from them and you will feel how it is in the room when the lights go dark and an audience, Jason, is asked to play with its mind as much as its dumb eyes. Do it one time. We'll see how it goes. Then there'll be a vote.

And whatever the vote is, you'll never speak of it again. This now is the final sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jason, how do you feel thus rebuked? I'm a little disappointed with it, but in the end, I feel like the judge is correct and that we should be trying new things and always trying to grow as performers.

So give it one shot and then we'll go back to never speaking of it again. And I mean, you really earned it, right, Jason? Yeah, exactly. How are you feeling, Madeline? I'm feeling really good. I feel a little nervous now that the stakes are a little bit higher for this bat performance or to-be-named performance.

But I'm excited. Jason, are you going to torpedo this thing once you get out on stage in front of 12 people rather than the tens of thousands of people that you just sabotaged your friend in front of on this podcast? No, I would never do that in front of a paying audience. It's true. Jason's really great on stage. Well, we wish you all the best. Thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course,

the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example?

The braised short ribs. They're made-in, made-in. The Rohan duck. Made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it.

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That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware dot com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching.

So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world. And you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyperacademic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear the sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L

dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. You know what my biggest concern is, Judge Hodgman? Yes, and? My concern? Well, you know, folks who listen to this program, they can't see us while we're doing it. And sure, I mean, that's essentially doing humor with one hand tied behind our backs. But... Yeah, because no one can see my crazy chicken legs or my beard comedy. Yeah, but folks who've come to our... Hey, I'm doing beard comedy right now, Judge Hodgman. Let's not cast aspersions upon beard comedy. No, believe me, your beard

is a magnificent comedic device and a beautiful, beautiful, almost living creature. Well, I guess my concern is that if we turn the lights on metaphorically, if people could see us, it would be, I mean, it might still be kind of funny, but it would be almost too sensual to be funny. Hmm. Yes. And. That was my sensual yes and. Especially when we're all oiled up like this. Mine is an oil that's a natural secretion. Oh, cool. But you wouldn't know because you can't see it.

And that means your brains are working overtime to erase that image from your head. It's just a different dynamic of comedy. Thanks this week to Angela Christine Fraser for naming this week's episode Improbable Cause. Thanks, Angela. Our show engineered by Daniel Musisi at WBEZ in Chicago. And our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Of course, you can hashtag it JJ HO on Twitter.

If you like Twitter, you can follow John at Hodgman and me at Jesse Thorne. By the way, I don't have a blue check Mark next to my name, but trust me, it's me. Yeah. You know,

and also can I just point out I'm on Instagram. Yeah. And my handle on Instagram is John Hod can I just point out, I'm on Instagram. Yeah. And my handle on Instagram is John Hodgman, J-O-H-N-H-O-D-G-M-A-N, because someone's been squatting on Hodgman forever. Wow. Which I thought would be a dream, but turns out to be a nightmare. And I, hey, Instagram, I would like to be verified on this thing. I'm seeing all these people.

I'm verified on Twitter. Jesse should be verified on this thing. I'm seeing all these people. I'm verified on Twitter. Jesse should be verified on Twitter for sure. But it's like, I don't want to name names, but I'm seeing some people who are verified on that whom I know personally, and I'm not even sure they exist. But follow me on Instagram. We have a good time over there at John Hodgman. And of course, you can also follow me on Tumblr, which is johnhodgman.com which is my regular website where you can find all the details of our now no longer forthcoming live judge john hodgman shows because we just got back and we had a great time i didn't even know there was verified on instagram they should instagram verify me put dot this dot on that's my name not just an order okay gotcha gotcha. Come on, Instagram. You're in

contempt of court right now. If you're out there listening, and I know you may or may not be, please do it. We should thank all of the kind folks who came out to the Judge John Hodgman tour across this great nation of ours and internationally in the great nation of London. of ours and internationally in the great nation of London. That was such fun. All of it was the best. And I enjoyed, as always, meeting all of the humans. I am a robot now. I've been replaced for some reason.

No, but in all sincerity, you know, the reason that I first started doing this show was the opportunity to be able to talk to people all over the world and get to know them with my friend Jesse Thorne by my side. And it was so fantastic to be able to put faces to names and to meet people in person. And I hope that we get a chance to do more live shows down the road in the future of robotdom. Yeah, I think we probably will. We'll get back out there. Affirmative. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, which I bet you do. I mean, think about it really hard.

Do you got something? Yeah, you should just share it with us. Don't be worried about it. You know, just do it. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJ HO that's maximum fun dot org slash JJ HO I should also thank summertime fun time bailiff

Monty Belmonte for filling in so ably while while you sir were away in your vacation paradise but you know as they say watch the throne I'm back and I'm better than ever you come for the bail if If you better not miss.

Yeah, exactly. Precisely. Uh, we'll talk to you guys next time on the judge. John Hodgman podcast. Hot dog is not a sandwich. Maximumfund.org comedy and culture artist owned listener supported.