Judge John Hodgman - Ipso Lacto

Episode Date: November 21, 2012

Justin actively avoids dairy, claiming to HATE cheese, butter, and cream. His friend Angela is irritated by the avoidance, alleges that Justin has consumed and enjoyed dairy in the past, and thinks he should own up. Who is right in this food fight?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, ipso lacto. Angela brings the case against her good friend Justin. Justin claims that he hates and will not eat cheese, butter, or cream. His endless avoidance of dairy annoys Angela, whether they're dining at her house or out at a restaurant. Angela says Justin has knowingly consumed and enjoyed dairy products in the past and should own up to it. Who's right and who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Oh, hey, Jesse. You're not going to wear that shirt, are you? Don't you see that's not even a question?

That shirt makes you look fat. That's because I am fat. You are not fat. If anything, I make the shirt look fat. Yeah, I used to be chubby when I was a little girl. Yeah, but I'm not a little girl. No, you're a big girl. A big pretty girl. Big pretty girl want to go for a walk? No, big pretty girl want to do some judging. Swear I'm in, Jesse. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he will drink only Kobe milk produced by hand-massaged Japanese cows who are fed a diet of beer? Absolutely. Thank you. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Thank you very much, diet of beer. Absolutely. Thank you. Very well, Judge Hodgman. Thank you very much, Bill of Jesse.

Hello, Justin and Angela. For an immediate summary judgment, can either of you name the piece of popular culture that Jesse and I did a dramatic reading from as I entered the courtroom? Was that Jeff Garland and Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm? Wow.

Well, no. Oh. What about you, Justin? I got nothing. All right. I am almost tempted to give you the judgment, Angela, because that was Jeff Garlin and other actors in the Jeff Garlin film I Want Someone to Eat Cheese

With. I saw that too and I remember that scene. Yeah, you remembered Garlin. We all remember the Garlin. But you forgot the movie. Sorry. And once again, summary, justice is avoided. So let's get into it.

Angela, what's justin's problem he doesn't want to eat the i don't eat dairy well it's it's more than he just doesn't want to eat dairy because he actually does in fact eat dairy the main problem is that justin claims emphatically that he doesn't like cheese or butter or cream and you. And you know better than he does? Well, no, he actually eats it all the time. He eats pizza. He eats fried mozzarella sticks. He puts a ton of half and half in his coffee. He eats ice cream.

Is there ever a time when he does not eat butter, cheese, or cream? Yes, there are some times when he doesn't eat it. But then he will go to a restaurant and he will order things and he'll say, oh no, no butter, no cheese, no cream. And he makes a real point of not getting these things and making a big deal out of it. And whenever we cook,

he always asks for no butter, no cheese, no cream. But if I am making something and I put those things in it without his knowledge he always uh enthusiastically says how much he enjoys them and what is your relationship we're good friends we've we've been friends for 15 years now we went to college together he was he's the best man at our wedding so so do you do you have what what stake do you have in in his weird dietary preferences other than it's getting on your nerves?

Which is valid. I just want to know if there's – Sure. I mean it does get on my nerves. It's also kind of vexing because it's just paradoxical. But other than that, it's a problem because – I can't solve every vexing paradox in the world. What I want to know is how this affects you other than you being annoyed.

How often do you go out to eat together? Yeah, well, we go where we get together a lot. We live in different cities in New York, but we spend a lot of time getting a plane for our families. I live in Brooklyn. Justin, where do you live? I live in Canandaigua. Canandaigua. Are those syllables that you just strung together?

Yes. Finger Lakes. Oh, the cheese capital of upstate New York. Exactly. So what is the problem, Justin? Do you have an allergy? Are you lacto-intolerant? I am not.

No. I just don't like it at all. I had an incident when I was a kid. No, no, no. It seems to me. Do you stipulate or do you agree that what Angela says is true? I do. So it's not that you don't like it at all. You don't like it at some.

Exactly. Explain why. Maybe the majority of it. The majority of – you don't like the majority of cheese. Correct. Right. You only like esoteric hipster cheese. There's like one exception.

What's the one exception? Mozzarella. Mozzarella. Okay. Right. You only like esoteric hipster cheese. Like one exception. What's the one exception? Mozzarella. Mozzarella. Yeah. Okay. Explain to me what happened. You OD'd on cheese as a child? That was it.

Yeah. My mom was in the basement doing some laundry and I helped myself to those Kraft single serve and those greasy wrappers piled up at my feet and, uh, I got sick. And I, I definitely, how many of those would you say you ate in what, in that one sitting? I would, I don't, I think they come in and it's been a long time cause I don't purchase cheese. I have to think they come in blocks of like 24. I've seen them at the store before. Um, so I would, I would say I probably, I just dove in and if I had to guess a number, So I would say I probably – I just dove in.

And if I had to guess a number, maybe 20. I think there was one or two left when I finally felt ill and then it was just all over. You ate 20 pieces of cheese and that put you off cheese for the rest of your life? Well, yep, but not off pizza. I don't – this is not a term that I normally bandy about. But I would say that you, sir, are a – Oh. This is not a term that I normally bandy about, but I would say that you, sir, are a cheese. I'll eat 20 slices of cheese right now. Jesse?

I just ate 30 slices of cheese. Oh, man. I don't know if I want to be on record saying that he's a cheese. Is that something we can say on our podcast, Jesse? I think we can bleep it. I think we should bleep it. It's funny if we bleep it. Yeah, I think so can bleep it. I think we should bleep it. It's funny if we bleep it. Yeah, I think so.

All right. Can we also stipulate that that kind of Kraft slices isn't even really cheese? How dare you? How dare you, madam, come into my courtroom and try to tell me what cheese is? Do you not know that I was a professional monger of cheese? I did not. For almost five months. No. At a time in my life when five months felt like a very long time in London,

the cheese capital of London. Oh, I took care of a lot of cheese. I knew a lot of cheese. I knew all the differences. I knew what a washed rind cheese was. I knew what a bloomy rind cheese was. I knew what a hard cheese, semi-soft raw milk. You know what I would do? You know what my job would be when I came in in the morning? What's that? Turn the cheese over. See, that sounds really wonderful to me. Do you know why? Why? So the moisture gets through

equally in the cheese as it ages. Cheese is a living thing and it's a beautiful product and I hate anyone who doesn't like it. I'm admitting my prejudice right here. I'm hearing it. I'm into it. I would wake up in the middle of the night during my cheese dreams. My cheese mind. Excuse me, sir.

I will have order. Shut your pie hole! It's been a long time since we had a good shut your pie hole. Had to do what I had to do. I would wake up in the middle of the night having dreamed of cheese and I would speak in my sleep and I would say,

Stilton is a chump cheese. And do you know why? Because it is! Stilton is a beautiful storied cheese and arguably the king of blue cheeses. But if you have options, do you know what I mean? I do. I definitely do.

If you have an option of a casual blue, Stilton is chump cheese by comparison. So, sir, you had one bad experience with cheese. You have a post-cheese traumatic stress disorder. What happens when you eat cheese now?

I don't like it. I generally avoid it at all costs. At all costs? At the cost of the lives of your friends? Not at all costs, sir. All right. Maybe very little costs, I guess. If there's one thing I hate more than anything in the world or the universe, it's hyperbole.

I feel like you're presenting yourself as the greatest generation of avoiding cheese. yourself as the greatest generation of avoiding cheese. I don't like to lose composure from the bench, but that may be my favorite bailiff Jesse-ism of all time. Yes, you are so noble in your hatred of cheese, sir. You sacrificed so much. We all must now bow down before you. When can we stop thanking you

for saving yourself from this international scourge of cheese? Can I also add something? I don't know. You know what? I think summary judgment has almost been achieved. All right. I've not had much of a case here, I guess. Well, you know, here's the thing.

You're not making a case for yourself because all you're saying is, I don't like it. And I get that you had a bad experience with cheese. And I respect that people don't like certain foods. And I do not hate people who hate cheese. I can't claim to understand them, but I can't claim to understand a lot of things. But when you say you don't like it, does that mean you feel physically ill when it is around you? If you go to a restaurant and someone orders a cheese course at the end of the meal, better than any other dessert, frankly. Like, do you feel physically ill?

I do not feel physically ill, no. No, I just don't partake. Well, that's also not true. He eats cheese sometimes, and he also eats other kinds of dairy if it's something, if he's willfully ignorant of it. Let me ask you, sir. Angela made some accusations, and I'm going to put them to you now now and I want you to answer honestly for once in your life. Do you eat pizza? Yes.

Do you put half and half into your coffee? Yes. Do you butter your toast? No. I can understand why that offended you. I can understand given that line of questioning. How dare you? All I do is eat pizza and put half and half in my coffee.

So what is the rhyme or reason for your eating cheese in certain cases and dairy for that altogether in certain cases and not in others? Is there a rhyme? Is there a reason? I think I have my own rhyme and reason. That will get you thrown out of this court immediately. Don't repeat things back to me. Just tell me, is there a rhyme or reason? What is the template?

What is the flow chart by which you determine whether some cheese is okay and some isn't, whether some dairy is okay and some isn't? Why pizza? Mozzarella? Bland. Okay. Mozzarella is, right. Okay.

Same with fried cheese. Why do you eat fried cheese sticks? It's been a long time. Are you saying you don't remember, sir? No, I'd say maybe four or five years ago I've had a mozzarella stick. Okay. All right. So it's not.

It's been a while ago. And how often do you eat pizza? Every Tuesday. I see. I see. I see. If the metaphor were to hold and you were the greatest generation of cheese haters, you would be the greatest generation of cheese haters that has, you know, like a bunch of Nazi memorabilia in your in your uh in your basement i would not say that you have a perverse fascination with it that you that you care not to own up to i would be the greatest

hater six days of the week greatest hater six days of the week is a t-shirt that i would like to make immediately get the courtroom merchandise people on that immediately, Bailiff Jesse. Okay. Why about half and half? Why? Why is that okay? Well, personally, I don't think that tastes much like cheese. Right.

But you're against all dairy. When I said butter, you acted like I was a crazy person for suggesting that you butter your toast. Butter has a flavor that I guess I just don't care for. Okay. Where half and half, coffee kind of drowns out that flavor. I don't just don't care for. Okay. Where half and half coffee kind of drowns out that flavor. I don't have a glass of half and half. Can I interject something about butter? Because that's one of my main points against him. Okay. So Justin actually loves butter. He doesn't know it, but he likes, for example, I've baked pie many times for him. We baked apple pie when we were all together and I put a stick of butter into each crust.

You have to. You have to. And he loves that. And when we were on vacation a few years ago in Maine, we, my friend and I were making potatoes, grilled potatoes out on the barbecue. And that was a butter party. And he just went on and on about how much he loved the potatoes and how good they were. I've been to a main butter party. We all were in college. We're all were in college at one point in the Northeast.

And so he's like, anytime I cook and he's not looking, I put a lot of butter in it. And he always is going on about how good those things are, more so than anything that doesn't have butter in it. I get more compliments about that. And of course, I don't tell him there's butter in it because if he catches me putting butter in it, he gets all disgusted, gets upset. How do you respond to that, to the butter inconsistency?

I have a problem with this, with her slipping butter and cheese into dishes and then secretly chortling when I eat the knowing looks that she gives her husband and my wife when I'm eating something that she knows she threw a little cheese in and is just waiting for my comment. May I say something that will surprise you? Yes. I don't blame you,

but you did not answer my question. Why do you like butter in certain circumstances and not in others? Maybe I can't taste it. That would have to be my answer. How would you describe the taste of butter that is so despicable to you? Yellow. It's like the taste of yellow. Okay.

Heavy. Do you have aphasia? Do you have synesthesia? Do you confuse sensory inputs? Do you think that tastes are colors? Not often. All right. I don't understand.

I'm just trying to figure you out so that I can make a proper ruling. Maybe there isn't anything to figure out here. I mean, it may be that you simply don't – do you dislike the texture of butter? Yes. Sounds like you're leaping at anything to get off the hook. Definitely texture, and that's one of my problems with cheeses because I have tried a couple of times. My wife, I've tried cheese, and it's the texture, the taste, the smell. I'll be honest, the look of it, it's a little bit of everything.

The whole package is not for me. And the milk? You don't like milk for the same reason? I do like ice cream. Okay. So it's in a different shape. And I'll drink a glass of milk with perhaps a brownie or chocolate cake. I don't want to hear about your nighttime routine, sir. We're going to stick to your Tuesday routine, please.

Tell me about, Angela, tell me about what happens in restaurants. Angela, tell me about what happens in restaurants. Well, in restaurants, this happens a lot when he'll order and he will often, he'll always stipulate like no butter, no cheese, no cream. And tells them, you know, if it's toast, leave it dry. He always makes a stipulation about that. But in addition to that, he will also frequently ask if there is anything in it. that he will also frequently ask if there is anything in it. I remember one time he ordered gnocchi and he asked if there was any cheese in the gnocchi, which he never would have known. And they said yes. So then he wouldn't order it. And then the other thing that happens is, I would say 50% of the time the dish comes with cheese on it or cream or butter or whatever it is.

And then he's got to scrape it off or he has to return it. And then everybody's, you know, waits for him to eat and everybody feels bad. And it's always it's an issue. It always turns into a, you know, a complicated scenario because, you know, they get it wrong a lot of the time. You know, they're busy. They're on the line and it comes back with all this stuff all over it. They're busy. They're on the line and it comes back with all this stuff all over it. If he were a vegetarian and expressed equal equivalent questions about whether a soup was made with a chicken stock or whether there was any meat or whether there was any huge slices of steak in the salad that he was ordering, would you feel equally frustrated?

Not at all. I mean, I would feel frustrated if he was saying that and he was having brisket every Tuesday and mixing ground beef into his coffee. But, you know, he's not. I think you may be onto something. Mixing ground beef into your coffee is a Philadelphia tradition, you know. Mixing ground beef into your coffee is a Philadelphia tradition, you know. Every morning starts with a nice big slice of scrapple and some – not just piping hot.

Boiling maliciously hot coffee that you cool down by stirring in some delicious cream chip beef. That's a – It's a Pennsylvania Dutch tradition. That's right. That's a Philadelphia special. Okay, I see. So you hate the hypocrisy more than the particular dislike of this food grouping. That's half of it. That's most of it, actually.

It's more than half. If that's half of the half and half, what's the other half? The other half of this creamy delight. I think that the major thing is that I think that food is such a thing to enjoy in life. And it's something that I get so much satisfaction out of that I feel like he's just limiting the things that he can really enjoy. And by being picky like that, he's making it so that he is not enjoying something that I think could be and should be. Have you ever been a spectator in this courtroom before? Yes, many, many times. This is one of my favorite podcasts.

Well, I appreciate that flattery and therefore you win. Thank you very much. Well, I appreciate that flattery and therefore you win. Thank you very much. Well, this has been settled. But do you know, are you aware of the precedent that now has come into play many a times, which is you can't make people like things? Oh, absolutely. And I thought about why would you ask this court to even consider the argument that you think he should like something that he doesn't like? Well, it's because I don't think that it's that he should like something that he doesn't like. Do you think that this court has all the time in the world? I do not.

Do you believe that this court's time is valuable? Absolutely. Do you not know this precedent? I do know this precedent. So why would you waste this court's time with the argument that he should like something that he doesn't like because you think he should like it. Well, because I don't think it's that he should like something he doesn't like. I think that he does like it and just doesn't know it. He's got this weird mental block about it.

So you know better than he does what he likes. I don't think that, but I do think that when he doesn't know that it's in there. To poison him with butter, with secret butter. I have no desire to poison him with secret butter, but I do like for him to enjoy food. And to mock him behind his back. Or to mock him to his face when you trick him into eating butter by sneaking it into otherwise unbuttered things. I'm not going to lie. I do kind of get a kick out of it when he raves about the potatoes.

I'm not doing it for the express purpose of tricking him. I'm doing it because I know that it's better that way and that he will like it better that way. And he does like it better that way and that he will like it better that way and he does like it better that way deceiving your friend is just so to speak the non-dairy icing on the cake okay sir you go into a restaurant how much trouble you cause these people with your weird preferences actually i don't think it's all that much trouble i'm gonna ask you a series of questions and I want you to answer honestly for once in your life. Okay. Did you ask if gnocchi is made with cheese? Sure. Okay. Don't be dumb. Of course it is.

Do you understand that if you go to an Italian restaurant, everything will be made with cheese? I'm beginning to. Yeah. Okay. Please don't with cheese. I'm beginning to. Yeah. Okay. Please don't be dumb. Of course it is.

If you ask if something is topped with cheese. I've asked that. Yes. And when they say yes, what do you say? Can you please not do that? Wrong answer, sir. But I understand. If something is served to you that has cheese where you do not wish it to be, what do you do?

Do you send it back? No. I'm afraid no. I try to just scrape it off. Unless it's embedded, then I know it's better maybe to just try scraping it off myself. I can do that. I believe that Angela said that you send things back. Is that true or not true?

I would say no. I don't remember the last time I've sent something back. I do scrape stuff off. Do you remember the last time you sent something back? Do I remember? I don't. I feel like it happened at a Mexican restaurant once when it was just, you know,

it came back with cream all over it. It was unsalvageable without that. Sir. It's possible. Do you know that if you go to a Mexican restaurant, everything will be served with cheese? Yes. Do you know that there are cuisines

that are not as almost exclusively cheese-based as Italian and Mexican? Yes. Yes. Okay. Do you, do you agree that it is your responsibility to educate yourself about what foods have cheese in it and what do not have cheese in it? Yes.

All right. What would you like me to order? If I find in your favor, I would just like pizza. Oh yeah. I just want truth in our friendship. I don't want Angela to put secret cheese or butter into dishes she makes for me. She can just be honest, or she can just maybe not put the cheese or butter into the dish for me. That would also be fine. Certainly, if there was some food she

didn't like, I wouldn't make it for her. Is there any food that she doesn't like? You know, I don't know. She eats a lot. She does love food. Yeah. Right. She loves food. She sees it as an opportunity to enjoy and taste life. And she doesn't understand anyone who is different from her. Angela, is there any food that you don't like? I don't. There isn't really anything that I dislike, no. I mean, except, you know, processed.

That's because you're a terrible snob. Ish. Do you eat raw milk cheese? Yes. Do you eat Kraft singles? No, I do not. What would you like me to order if I find in your favor? Well, I had a couple possibilities.

One thing that I would like from the order, if it's something that is a restaurant, like, for example, gnocchi, where it doesn't say something smothered in gorgonzola right on the menu. I would like him to not ask what it contains, because I think that if it is made with it and he enjoys it, he should just enjoy it. And the other thing I was thinking is a possibility is that perhaps you might compel Justin to take some kind of a cooking class where he learns to cook with and appreciate dairy and all of its glory and see if he actually maybe does like it if he gives it a shot. He doesn't need a cooking class he needs therapy you understand that you could compel him to go to therapy and

talk about his cheese traumatic stress he had a cheese aversion experience that he now needs he needs to work through with a qualified cheese re-immersion professional yes which is my new my new which is my new reality show but uh show. But I don't see what a cooking class is going to do. I'm going to say right off the bat, that's not going to happen. Who would even pay for it? Me? Right. No, no, no. We're not going to do that. All right. I think I have everything I need in order to make my decision. I am going to go into my chamber now and eat my hourly pound of cheese, and I will be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Justin, how are you feeling? A little worried. I'd say I don't think I'm going to win this one. Well, it's because your whole lifestyle is cockamamie. It's one that I embrace, though. I'm not hurting anybody by not eating cheese. What about dairy farmers? I eat ice cream. It's just select things from them that I tend to purchase, I guess. Angela, how are you feeling? I'm feeling okay. I was a little bit concerned

coming in about the judicial precedent of not being able to compel people like things they don't like. So I, you know, hope that I have put it in a light where it's not that I'm trying to get him to like something he doesn't like, but rather to just get him to enjoy life a little bit more. What are you, the cheese police? No. Is there a real cheese police? And who are they? I think he has called me the cheese police before. I had a major cheese theft here recently, and I need someone to help me. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. I believe in two things very strongly.

One is individual liberty and one is cheese. I don't see how these two things need to be mutually exclusive. Our cheese-loving forefathers fought and died on the... Beaches of Normandy? I was going to say the dairy fields of France in order to secure us the liberty to enjoy cheese in all of its many glorious forms. In order to secure us the liberty to enjoy cheese in all of its many glorious forms. I love cheese.

And honestly, my weird cheesy dream statement is not true. Stilton is not chump cheese because there is no chump cheese. Only chumps. And you, sir, I don't understand you. There seems to be no internal consistency. And yet I will eat cheese to the death to defend your right to choose what you put in your mouth. does not – when someone claims to not like a thing and cannot provide an internally consistent and logical explanation for what they do not like, that person risks sounding like a five-year-old. Children say things like, I don't like it, and they cannot explain why. And then they go and eat something just like it every Tuesday. So I do not want you to confuse my support for your non-dairy eating as admiration.

I think, as Angela does, that you ought to try out some stuff and get over this. But you don't have to. It's your life. It's your body. There's one thing I do not like. It is people inconveniencing waiters and waitresses with a bunch of weird requests. And there I felt that I was going to have you, sir, pinned to the wall. But I do not get the sense that you are unduly bothering these people.

The only thing that is being bothered is Angela's sense of propriety because she knows what the waiter or waitress does not know, which is that you are a dairy hypocrite. dairy hypocrite and that the whole theater of you're asking is there a cheese or butter in a thing is pointless because the next day you're going to go out and eat a stuffed crust pepperoni pizza but that but that is not that is not outside answering such questions and providing alternatives when they are asked for within reason is not outside the job description of a waiter or a waitress in a restaurant. I do not think you're unduly burdening those people. But again, I would say if you have strong dietary preferences, in all cases, it must be the burden placed on you to accommodate your preferences rather than force the burden onto anyone else. So I encourage you, sir, that when you go out to eat, educate yourself as to what does or does not have cheese in it.

If you are truly not sure, you may ask one simple question, but let it end there. Now, I will say this to you, madam. I get where you're coming from. And this would drive me crazy too. But the law does not solve friends driving friends crazy. You have not been purposefully harmed. You have not been materially harmed. You have not been materially inconvenienced.

You have not convinced me that he has materially harmed or inconvenienced others. He has simply annoyed you. And meanwhile, you are deceiving him with secret dairy products, which is not okay. Now, you may go forward in life and maintain this friendship. I deem that okay. And you may go forward in life and maintain this friendship. I deem that okay. And you may go forward. Thank you. I'm not going to force you guys to split up as friends forever. Okay.

And you may challenge your friend's taste vigorously and aspirationally, hoping that he might – you might become the cheese aversion therapist that he so desperately needs. But you must do so on the up and up. Sneaking something into food is not what a friend does to a friend. It is what a parent does to a five-year-old. That is not the dynamic that you want to have in this relationship. That is not the dynamic that you want to have in this relationship. Okay. Now, I have to say, you did waste this court's time with an argument that you, your good taste, somehow gives you the right to say what another person should like.

And therefore, out of sheer malice, this court finds you in contempt and sentences you to eat three craft singles. Oh, gross. Nice. Don't you start laughing, buddy. You have to be there when she does it. Otherwise, I find in favor of the defendant. The complainant may not sneak butter into his food. The defendant

can still have his weird eating habits, but don't foist it off on anyone else. This is the sound of a gavel. The defendant can still have his weird eating habits, but don't don't foist it off on anyone else. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Angela, how are you feeling? Oh, I got I got schooled here.

I kind of saw it coming. I didn't think it was going to go over well that I had been sneaking him butter surreptitiously. I am wondering if this also is going to extend to all of the other people that do it to him. Are they not allowed to do it anymore either? Oh, no. Justin, how are you feeling? Oh, no. Justin, how are you feeling? Well, I'm glad that there's an end to the deception, at least on one front. This is news to me.

I'm hoping my wife doesn't sneak cheese and stuff. That would shatter me. Angela, if only there was some product, perhaps of a cow, that you could drown your sorrows in. I think I'm going to go do that as soon as this call is over. Justin, Angela, thanks for joining us on the Judge Don Hodgman podcast. Good luck, you guys. Thank you. Are you leading a cheese sneaking conspiracy, Angela?

Are you part of a cheese sneak ring? This is like a reverse Jerry Seinfeld's wife type situation. It's like, ha ha, he'll never know that he's eating butter. I won't confirm nor deny that. All right. Good luck. Thank you very much, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

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That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory.

no choice but to embrace because yes listening is mandatory the jv club with janet varney is available every thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts thank you and remember no running in the halls if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-o-d-c-a-s-t-i hmm are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, Kraft single?

Thank you very much. No, no, let me unwrap it. Craft single? Thank you very much. No, no, let me unwrap it. That's not only half the pleasure, it's actually two-thirds of the pleasure of eating a craft single. Although in total, there's not that much pleasure. I think that's the central problem with a craft single. Do you know what the rarest Magic the Gathering card there is in the cheese-eating world.

What's that? Individually wrapped craft singles of white American cheese. Oh. Only rarely found. When you throw those down on the table, that's a power move. That's a double Pokemon. You've got to clear a lot of mana, my friend. Wait, tap a lot of mana?

Tap a lot of mana. Tap a lot of mana. Tap a lot of mana. That's a thing from Magic the Gathering. I'm a hater six days a week. Can we please talk about something I know about, like pogs? Here's a case on the docket You know what a pog is, right? You know where those originally came from?

It stands for pineapple orange guava. Milk bottle caps. Pineapple orange guava juice caps. Oh, is that what it was? That's what It stands for pineapple orange guava. Milk bottle caps. Yeah, pineapple orange guava juice caps. Oh, is that what it was? That's what it stands for, POG. Is that for sure? Yeah. Passion fruit orange guava, maybe.

One or the other. All right, let's go on and clear this docket. Sarah writes, my sister and her husband are hosting a number of people for Thanksgiving. Sarah is wrong, moving on. I usually arrive early and help out making pies and side dishes. This year, my sister wants me to make dishes in advance using her specific recipes. Is it right to ask people who are decent cooks to follow the host's recipe? Did I already mention that I spent a lot of time in

that kitchen following orders? I'm so glad that I spent a lot of time in that kitchen following orders? I'm so glad that I have a chance to address this because when I saw this in the email, I didn't know that we're going to be doing that on the docket today. I feared that I would not be able to address this before Thanksgiving. So I'm really glad. By the way, if you have any disputes that you would like me to resolve, you just write me at, what is the email address? Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. Those go directly to me. I review each one of them. Thank you. The host to ask their family members to help each other out is perfectly reasonable for siblings to boss each other around. But you are not your sister's employee.

Therefore, it is not appropriate for your sister to insist that you follow a specific recipe. You are helping her. You are not serving her. You know what I don't like about Sarah's sister's recipes? No. Not enough butter. Not enough butter. You throw a little butter in there.

You know what? Follow her recipe, but just add a pound of butter. Absolutely. Of secret Angela Not enough butter. Not enough butter. Yeah, throw a little butter in there. You know what? Follow her recipe, but just add a pound of butter. Absolutely. Of secret Angela's secret butter. Oh, man. I've got great news, Judge Hodgman. Oh, boy. We have an update from Noah from the DeFleeter House case. A legendary case.

This is undoubtedly my favorite. You can tell. Just listen to the playback of that case. You can tell it's my favorite case. In fact, I'll wait while you go and do it. Okay, I'm glad you enjoyed that. I still enjoy listening to this case. I replay it in my mind regularly and laugh about how much I enjoyed this. So give us a quick pricey of what this case was all about. So it's two brothers who live in a place so rural and

just generally unwanted that you can buy a house for less than a car cost. Yes. And the house they bought in order to save money on rent, they bought, again I'll just repeat that, they bought a house to save money on rent. Sure. And it has holes in the walls

and bats come in through the holes. And one of the brothers, just, the disagreement was, should they patch up the hole in the bathroom so that the bats don't come in? Or should they just keep the bathroom door closed so whenever bats come in, they're confined to the bathroom? Right. They would be isolated in the bathroom.

And one of the brothers, the brother who suggested just keeping the door closed was also the brother who said, I don't understand what the problem is. If you see a bat, kill it with a dictionary. I thought they should just get themselves a nice, airtight Buick Riviera or something with their $18,000 or whatever it was that they spent on this house. And then sleep inside of it. But do you know what they would have suffered then? What's that? Buick mites.

Oh, no. Yeah. In the rich Corinthian leather? Yeah, that's why Buick mites are called that. Okay. Because they love Buicks. So what did happen? Here's the update.

I just wanted to send an update in case anyone wondered if I had succumbed to rabies or if Adam had been kidnapped by PETA. Oh, by the way, Adam, the brother? Yeah. He figured that if any bats got in, they could just kill them with a broom. Well, I thought it was like he kept a huge dictionary next to his bed and he would smash it. That was another part of his plan. He had a multi-part plan.

He had really worked this out for a person who's obviously whose life was in shambles. He clearly, you know, he wasn't dreaming about cheese. He was dreaming about bathing in bat blood. Our mom heard the podcast after it went live and ordered our dad to come and help us fix the ceiling. The house was thoroughly and humanely, that was a very important issue that we looked at in this case, bat-proofed, just in time for both of us to move out.

Adam and I both accepted jobs teaching English abroad. Adam went to the Republic of Georgia and was attacked by a bat the day after he arrived. Bats, you know, they're a significant underground communication paths between bats. If you piss off one bat or talk badly of a bat on a podcast. Don't you think those Romanian bats are going to hear about it? Don't be naive. They have very poor eyesight and are deeply committed podcast listeners for that reason. Exactly so. Bats don't listen to podcasts because they're happy.

Noah says, I'm now teaching in China. As you probably know, bats are considered lucky here. now teaching in China. As you probably know, bats are considered lucky here. So I think that this proves that Judge Hodgman is truly the embodiment of karmic as well as internet justice. I think our bat house won in the long run, like it must in any horror story. But my time living in fear is thankfully at an end. What a beautiful little tale. But what I didn't hear was what happened to their house. Did they sell that house? They probably, they must have sold it. I mean, you put a, you fix the ceiling in the bathroom,

you've got to be able to get an extra 50 bucks. That brings the price up to 350 bucks. I would just be very disappointed if they sold that house and did not insist that a plaque be affixed to the outside, commemorating its place in Judge John Hodgman history. I think even calling it a sale is probably a misnomer because they did, as I understand it, trade it for four sacks of sugar. The first person who sends me a photo of themselves in front of the bat house will get a prize. It'll be a good prize, too, because we've never revealed the address of this house.

No, but they can figure it out. Yeah, use that library where they figured out about the map. That one girl figured out about the house and the trees and the river. Exactly so. That one girl figured out about the house and the trees and the river? Exactly so. And don't try to trick me because I have Noah's email address and he will verify if that is indeed the bat house. It can't just be a bat house.

Don't just knock holes in your walls. Right. Invite bats in by putting fruit and insects inside your bathroom and then take a picture in front of your house. Right. Go back and listen to the podcast. Get the clues. Contact these dudes if you're able to find them on the internet. Get their permission. Find the location. Take a picture of yourself in front of the bat house.

And particularly if you affix a plaque. Well, don't affix anything to any house that you don't own. That's a law. But if you take a picture in front of it. Is that? It is. It just passed.

Nanny state. I know. It's just because of the election. We should have voted for Romney. Take a picture of yourself in front of that. I will give you a boxed set of my books of complete world knowledge, specially signed and decorated by me. And also something else from my office. Can they get a copy of your new audio book of your books?

Well, my audio book is download only, but I will send you a code. Excellent. You know what? Now that I think about it, Christmas is coming up. That's true. And that would be a great thing to put in someone's stocking, a code to download the audiobook version of your new book. I should probably print out codes.

Yeah. Or you can do it yourself, I think, on iTunes, right? Yeah. And other things. Yeah, I think people can just do it themselves on iTunes. I don't know. It just occurred to me. Do you know what I think would be a great holiday gift?

What's that? Well, cheese by mail, but also... To make a donation in someone's name to Maximum Fun. Sure. Because everyone will feel happy about that. Yeah, everyone feels happy about that. Exactly so. Too bad the world's going to end on December 21st.

But if Christmas comes, you can donate to Maximum Fun or buy a bunch of junk from it. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.