Judge John Hodgman - It May or May Not Take a Village

Episode Date: October 7, 2015

Switcheroo week! One Bad Mother hosts Biz Ellis and Theresa Thorn are guest hosting Judge John Hodgman this week. You'll find John Hodgman over at the RISK! podcast. Judge Biz and Bailiff Theresa decide: should a couple with a baby seek out other young parents? Or are their old (non-parent) friends sufficient?

Hi, Judge John Hodgman listeners. This is Biz Ellis. And I'm Teresa Thorne. And we are normally the hosts of a podcast called One Bad Mother's, a comedy podcast about parenting, not a parenting podcast. So you may be wondering, why are you here on my podcast download of my favorite show, Judge John Hodgman? Well, this week is MaxFun's Great Switcheroo, so all the hosts of MaxFun Podcasts are swapping shows this week. It's crazy.

So we are taking over the Judge John Hodgman show. I will be Judge Biz Ellis, and Teresa Thorne will be... Bailiff Teresa Thorne. Big leap. And this is happening everywhere. So you can find, for example, Judge John Hodgman over at Risk, or you can find... Bailiff Jesse Thorne at My Brother, My Brother and Me and stop podcasting yourself. Again, it's crazy.

You'll hear more about this at the end of this episode. In the meantime, we hope you will sit back and enjoy us raining down some judgment. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week, it may or may not take a village. Matt brings the case against his wife, Janine. They've recently had a new baby, and Matt thinks it's time to make friends with other parents of older children in a kind of parenting mentor situation. Janine thinks they're fine with the friends they've got. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one woman can decide. Please rise as Judge Biz Ellis enters the courtroom and issues the obscure cultural reference. How are you feeling, Biz? You know

what, Teresa? I was thinking a lot about this. And when I was young, I never needed anyone, right? Making love was just for fun. But those days are gone, right? I'm living alone back then. I think of all my friends I've known when I dialed the telephone. Nobody's home. All by myself. And this case makes me feel very much like that because it makes me think back to those times in my life before I had kids and my pre-expectations of what life was going to be like after I had my kids in terms of relationships with family, friends, my partner, and just how wistful and how off I was on those very things. And it'll be interesting to have parents as fresh as our Matt and Janine are today in terms of that raw sense of

pre-parental expectations being met with post-baby life. Matt and Janine, we want to thank you for joining us. Bailiff Teresa, please swear them in. Matt and Janine, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge Biz Ellis' ruling, despite the fact that she hasn't slept a whole night's worth of sleep for the last almost two years?

I do. I do. I do. Thank you. Judge Ellis, you may proceed. Thank you. Matt and Janine, I want to thank you for joining us. Before we get started, can either of you tell me the original writer and singer of the obscure cultural reference that I made upon entering the show for an immediate summary judgment

in your favor. Matt? Nora Jones? Nope. Okay. Though she's relaxing. Though she's very relaxing and wistful. Janine?

I recognize it as a song, but I can't tell you who. Fair enough, guys. Fair enough. Thank God I only still listen to music from the 1970s. The original singer was Eric Carman, though many new people in the world might only attribute it to Celine Dion. But that's not where I was going for. The more wistful, lonely, sorrowful version is definitely Eric Carman. And now that we've gotten all through that, I am very excited to be serving as judge today because normally I don't get to be too judgy. And so it is with great excitement that I say, Bailiff Teresa, I am ready to lay down some justice.

Let's do it. Matt, you bring this case before the court. Please tell us your side of the story. All right. This case was actually submitted before we had kids, or a kid I would like to make the effort to just make friends with one couple that have kids that live somewhat close to us that we can go to for advice and to complain and just kind of bounce ideas and opinions and that would speak into our relationship with our daughter and help us out in that. Okay, question. Do you guys, do you guys have parents of your own? Yes. Okay. Are

they the kind of parents that you can call for, for advice about kids or has the time just gone so long that they have everything was perfect when they when they had you guys because that's what my mom always said you guys were perfect i'd say janine definitely has parents that she calls and respects for advice my parents are just different. So, I love my family, but it is the first grandchild and they're really excited to help out with buying

stuff, but advice-wise, they're not quite there. Not quite there. So, you're hoping it's less that you guys necessarily are able to reach out to relatives on an easy basis for you. You, in particular, have a need to maybe have somebody close by, same generation, same situation that you guys are going into to get advice. Yeah, that's my ideal.

Are you the first of your friends to have kids? Yes. There's one couple that has had a daughter within the past year, but we never, ever see them. Ah! Yes. They are actually on my list of couples to pursue. Is it too early to find the crux? I know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. All right. All right. How old are you guys? Oh, yeah. If I may judge. Good question.

You may, Teresa Bailiff. I'm 34. And I'm 28. Okay. All right. Janine, as the older woman. I'm 34 and I'm 28 okay ah alright Janine as the older woman the more experienced

the more experienced older woman as I like to call myself who's in that position old mom why don't you tell us your side of the case

because what Matt's saying on some level yeah who doesn't want helpful advice from people with brand new children whose children are nothing like yours? Tell us a little bit about your side of the case. already pretty busy, even before having our daughter. And so I don't feel like I have time to be making new friends. I also feel like... Oh, can I ask you, I'm sorry, real quick, you said busy. Are you guys both working full time? We're both working full time. Yeah, I just started back to work about two weeks ago. So... How old is the baby? 12 weeks. 12 weeks and you just started back. Our maternity system should be on trial is what's happening. Anyway, okay. Sorry, continue with your side of the case. I also feel like I, I because I do have a good relationship

with my parents where I, I respect their advice. I call them a lot for that. I get, and my sister and sister-in-law just had their first kid. So I feel like I'm getting a lot of that advice and commiserating with them. So I don't feel like I, I need to make friends on top of that to, to find help. Okay. Janine, a question for you. Now that you guys have had kids, I mean, and you guys are really still in the new of it. I mean, 12 weeks is nothing. I mean, it feels like an eternity. But it is, I mean, like, so empathetically, I can say I know how tired you are. I know how drained you are. I know how emotionally depleted you are, both of you having to work and it is it is a really weird time. And I know that bailiff Teresa and I have often shared with each other

how everybody's around sort of that initial moment the baby is born. And then it's like, good luck. And people are gone. So I'm wondering, you say that you have a strong friendship base. And part of your evidence that you submitted to the show was a very impressive long list of friends that you guys stay socially committed to. So I guess I have two questions for you. One, how has it and how has that changed now that you've had a baby? Both for y'all's perspective as a couple, have you been super active after having the baby with your friends? And well, let's answer that question first. Have

you guys as the new parents, do you feel like you've been able to maintain your duties with your friends in terms of maintaining those relationships I think so um Matt and I lead a small group through our church and so we kind of have to once a week maintain some of those relationships um but on top of that like on weekends we'll go over to people's houses for dinner. Or this past weekend, we went to a cider festival with a group of friends. So I think we've done pretty well at that. And they've been really wonderful to offer to babysit for us. They, I have one friend that's watching her right now. And then last week we had a couple of friends babysit while we went out and had a date night. So I feel like it's kind of been we've been committed to make things work and hang out with people.

And they've also been really wonderful to step in and help us. Wow. I don't think I left my house for the first year. We should have belonged to churches. We should have belonged to churches. We should have belonged to churches. We absolutely should have. Don't think I don't go there sometimes in my mind for the like... Because there is definitely a sense of community. I remember my mother even saying to me once with my first kid, my first kid, I don't even

count her anymore, with my first child and how isolated I felt, you know, she was like, I know you're not particularly religious, but you can always go to church to, you know, hang out. There are groups, there are support groups, there are, you know, people who want to hang out with you, despite your potty, potty sailor mouth. But, all right. So, Matt, I just want to come back to you. I'm listening to Janine. Do you agree that you guys have been able to maintain this commitment with your friends over these last 12 weeks? true. We've gone to birthday parties. We've taken her out to restaurants. We've traveled with her. And we've been trying on our part to definitely stay committed to the friendships that we have. Can I ask you guys a possibly non-funny question? And that is, you're 12 weeks in, you guys have been remarkably committed to your

friends, which I just have to tell you, it really is impressive. All sarcasm and joking aside, because it's really hard right after you have a kid, to balance that out. Have you guys had any moments where you feel like it's too much, that you feel like maybe it's working now, but you're not sure you can commit. The best example I can give is my husband and I, long before children, we would have this huge commitment. It was like in our vows to do this amazing Halloween display every year, right? And we do it, and it's really fun, and we scare the neighborhood kids.

And then we had Katie Bell. And the first year, it was OK. We had Katie Bell. And the first year was okay. We had a sitter. And the second year, she's like two. And like, okay, we have the sitter, but we have to be a little more quiet. And then by three, wait, she wants to go trick-or-treating. And that's when we're supposed to be doing the trick-or-treating at our house. And now she's six and our son is almost two.

And I said to Stefan, I don't know if I can do this anymore, even though it's really important to me. Have you had any moments where you really wanted to pull back and just kind of get insular? I think the hardest thing for us right now is our relationship. And we've had some good things over the past week where we've been able to sit down and just have time with each other. But I do feel like the thing that's suffering the most right now is just my relationship with Janine. Because when we have a moment, we usually serve the other person by taking the kid right um rather than spending time with each other i also we are trying to not lead the group um the the small group that janine mentioned on on the next kind of iteration i think they call it quarters but we uh we we told that to somebody who's

you know kind of runs all of the the groups and we told that to him on kind of runs all of the groups, and we told that to him on Sunday, and he's like, yeah, I think you guys can do it. And we're like, okay. So we're trying to kind of pare down some of those commitments because I don't feel like I'm doing everything well, and so I don't want to just add things if I can't do them well. Right.

And that includes possibly going out and making even more friends. Yes. No, no, no. I know the but. We'll come back to the but. Janine, how do you feel about all this right now? Well, definitely for the first four weeks of having her, I felt like anything, I mean, just getting out of bed was difficult. Right.

And taking care of her. But as time went on, it got a little easier. Every time I tried to take her out and like get groceries, it got a little easier. The hardest thing right now for me is working and trying to take care of her. I think I tell Matt every day I can't live like this. I laugh because I have literally stood in my bathroom by myself saying to myself, how on earth did it get like this? Right? Like that's, you know, same as it ever was. This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful life, you know, like, so go ahead. Yeah, I that's been the hardest. I feel like if if it was just me taking care of

her and connecting with friends, and I didn't have the working 40 hours on top of that. I could make it work, but it's doing the work on top of that, that it's like something has to change. I can't keep doing it this pace. Matt, at the beginning of this, when you were stating your case, you were talking about what you were looking for in an ideal parent-friend. So I was wondering what your expectations are of that friendship and how you feel you could go about finding that perfect parent-couple friend. that perfect parent-couple friend? So ideally, I'd like someone that is kind of in the sweet spot of a little bit ahead of us. So someone that has a kid that's in between one and five, I guess. I don't know.

And has kind of gone through... Yeah, has gone through the stuff that we're going through now and can lend an ear to listen, can ask questions on things that we haven't even thought of. I'd like them to live in Kansas City, which is where we're located, so that we can actually go and see them together as a family or as a couple. So people that we can actually hang out with. I mean, have you not received all the unsolicited advice that just comes right away with childbirth?

I honestly don't think we have. Janine? We haven't really gotten that. Janine, Janine, have you? Janine? There's been a few things of like, oh, you should unswaddle her. She doesn't like, she wants her arms free when she sleeps. I'm like, that's not true. Yes, I think my point is, I think the advice

and the insight that you might get from this perfect friends whose child is just like your child and sees parenting just like you see parenting, you know, have you gotten anything even close to that yet from people? Not much. We've gotten a little bit. Okay. Yeah. And a lot of the advice that we've gotten is from janine's sister and sister-in-law but that's not enough that i i feel like right now they're kind of in the same situation we are and trying to figure things out and a lot of the times that

they talk to janine it makes her compare our kid to their kid and makes her actually more anxious about our kid because, for instance, her sister's kid is just really quiet and kind of chill. And ours is definitely not like that. Yeah, yeah. This is my most painful discovery as a parent, is that children are nothing alike. It is so unfortunate. It can happen in your own family, which is even more unsettling. You know, this is a question for both of you guys. We'll start with Janine this time. Before we had kids, and even after we had kids, I'm not sure Stephan and I even liked parents at all.

How do you guys feel about other people with kids in general outside of your own circle of friends? Janine, I mean, when you hear mom friends or parent friends, how does that make you feel? parent friends uh what what how does that make you feel i think that's one of the hardest things is because most of the people that we know they just seem so they seem so happy about like being a mom and being a wife and i'm situation or right yeah yeah i feel like i might be judged well so it seems actually really uh difficult to be friends with other mothers right the we're horrible um uh matt how about you mom Mom friends? Well, not for you. Dad? Well, dad friends are cool. They go out and leave the moms at home and have beers. No, I'm just kidding. That's not at all accurate. How, parent friends? Did you always like them even before wanting them?

I've never really had parent friends. And so I still, I don't know what that looks like to have a really good friend that's also a dad. Do you want, Matt, what is the problem with letting parent friends happen organically? I mean, you guys are just 12 weeks into this. I know that most of the ones that I wound up actually liking in terms of our circular friends with kids. And I remember how surprised I was when I actually liked some and I liked their kids. It was a very organic process. Do you you seem very meticulous about going about. I mean, I think you made a list.

I think you were observing people, really narrowing it down in sort of a database format. What's the problem with letting it just happen organically? So I think there is benefits to allowing it to happen organically. But I think even with more opportunities, you still need to take that effort and someone needs to do the first step. So the only organic process that I see without actually making that effort of pursuing friendship with a couple is if we, you know, our friends are having kids and some of them are pregnant now and they kind of have kids and then our group has kids in it but I still feel like then we are the the line leaders we're the people that they'll go to to ask questions of or to hang out with

and that's okay but I'm really looking for someone that's a little bit ahead of us. You become the very thing that you are looking for, Matt. Yes. And I do think it can happen organically with some of the couple on the list because we do see them in passing. It's not like we're going up to random strangers and saying, hey, I want to be your friend. Nothing wrong with that.

It's awkward, but sometimes it works. So these people aren't just like randos that I threw darts at. It's people that we... It would be a bad way to start off your friendship, Matt. Yes, I think so. I think so. Janine, why don't you want to make new friends? Why don't you want to make new friends? Well, I think part of it is that Matt is an extreme extrovert, so he wants to be friends with everybody he meets. He's also in his 20s. Ha, cha, cha. He's young.

He's vivacious. He has the energy for that. Yeah. I'm more introverted and I'm older and set in my ways. Right. You're just an old lady who wants to sit around and do puzzles. I feel like I'm talking to myself. So I just don't, I feel like I, yeah, if it just happened organically and I didn't really have to work at it that much, fine. I would take new friends, but I feel like I have really great friends now that I'm struggling to keep in touch with that I would rather invest my energy in. Are they meeting your needs as a new mom? I think that they will.

Okay. As they have kids. OK, as they have kids. I mean, I think eventually it will be where we can share stories about our kids and what we've tried and what were what works and what hasn't worked. Well, but I just want to say I also I really do see Matt's side of the story in terms of the parent friends. I can remember when we organically made some friends. We were the first to have kids in our circle of friends. And we went to the, we had some really supportive friends and then we had some who just didn't know any better.

You know, and we had the whole, oh, you know, yeah, no one invited you to that party because we just, you never go out anyway. So we just assumed what was the point of putting you on the invitation? It's nothing personal.

But then we made some friends in the park with kids the same age, made these friends sort of organically. And I can remember very clearly going to their house with all of our kids. So we had the one-year-old, they all had one-year-olds. And there was something really beautiful about that chaos where your kid's wandering off. Because once they start walking, they just wander off. And it's really hard to have a conversation with another adult because your kids are literally going in opposite directions. And there was this great Zen moment of like, no one cared. No one gave you the stink face. No one made you feel weird that you were like mid sentence and then walking at the same time and that you were like grabbing their

child and their child, they were grabbing your like, there was nothing more relaxing about being in that moment. So I totally get what Matt is looking for. So I guess what's the harm in starting to pursue that and lay that out now, Janine? I think if he could maybe help create space for that in my life then and and figure out what would happen i would have to give up to make that happen show show us the time matt that's right well where is the so but why can't matt just go off and do this on his own matt why can't you go off and do this on your own oh don't think you're getting off easy with this janine because i have a follow-up for you but matt why can't you go out and do this on your own? So. Besides loving your wife. Let's give the park as kind of an example.

So if I had Amberlee, even at age one, and I took her out to the park, and there were a group of moms that were there that also had their kids, I would feel kind of awkward to just approach a group of moms with their kids. Definitely. And be like, hey, do you want to be friends with me, the dad? And so I do think that there's still a part of our society that says men around kids is not as comfortable or is not as okay. Yeah, but aren't there any dads hanging out at the park with you at the same time? Again, I don't know dads that I hang out with. Are you really going to a park? We do have a park that we walk by. It's usually empty. Yeah, I know. No one goes to parks.

I do. I know. Yes. So I like that idea of going to a park and starting up a conversation and whatnot. I do think the conversation would be a lot easier if Janine was also present to kind of be the liaison between the creepy dad. And it's no longer the creepy dad. It's the couple, the happy couple, maybe. Right. So. Sure. The facade of the happy couple who's happy with their baby and everything's going great and it's all perfect.

Let's don't start our new friendships off with lies, guys. If you want people who will respond the way you're hoping, you've got to be brutally honest with them. And if they look at you funny, walk away. Now, Janine, having somebody, let's just say in some perfect world, there's a park where dads go and hang out with their children. And it's not creepy or weird. No one's calling the police about the large group of men and their toddlers. And Matt started hanging out with dad friends and then dad and wife families. And it very easily falls in the pattern of, sure, just go.

Just take them. Are you not concerned that you're losing even more opportunity for the two of you guys to be spending time together with Emberley? And this just becomes something he gets to go do that's fun while you're stuck not doing anything fun. I hadn't thought of that. You're welcome. I think that's when I would probably do like some self-care activity. Like I would journal or I would read a book or some of those things that I go running that I can't do now.

Right. or some of those things that I go running that I can't do now. Right. Bayliftery said this is highly, highly out of order, but it looks like you have something to say. Yeah, I do. Thanks, Judge. So, Matt, you had submitted evidence showing sort of your list of potential couple parent friends. And I mean, I think it's I hear your concern about sort of picking up friends at the park and how that could that could go wrong.

But what about like making dad friends with some of these, like some of these dads, it wouldn't even have to be one dad. It could be, you know, multiple different guys that you feel like you actually like. And like, there's, I mean, there's the possibility of, you know, Hey, I have Emberly on Saturday afternoon for four hours. Like, do you guys, do you guys want to meet up at the park and doing like, um, you know, a, a dad date with your kids or something.

I mean, I don't like that to me doesn't seem, uh, as awkward as going out and trying to talk to a group of moms. And, um, could you do that? Yes, I could do that.

I do want Janine to also have mom friends. So I do think that what you suggest is a good way to kind of start. But part of me does want to include my wife in those things. Well, what if Janine makes a dad friend? I'd be okay with that. That's cool, guys. It's all good. But seriously, a lot of times, you know, the friends that we made started because me and his dad were hanging out talking about what kind of protein can I feed my kid?

I'm all out of ideas outside of salami. about what kind of protein can I feed my kid? I'm all out of ideas outside of salami. Well, it's also a lot easier for, I think Janine might have more motivation and interest in becoming friends with maybe a partner of somebody you become friends with after you already discover how much you like this person and they're kind of hanging around a lot.

Yeah, also, why does this have to happen right now? Have you heard of the internet? I mean, it offers some horrible unsolicited parenting advice, way more than you're going to get from new friends. And you can just hang up on that if you don't like what that is. But if it's your new friend, it gets really awkward. Or, you know, books, There are actually some very helpful books out there that kind of let you know that this is normal. I mean, all you're really looking for, to be honest, is somebody to tell you it's normal and you're doing okay. So that's got to be out there somewhere.

I don't know. Possibly on another podcast or something. I think there's one other podcast. That may tell you you're doing a good job. You're doing great. It's okay that your kid is screaming. Yeah, it's okay. Trust me, mine never has stopped. But like, what, why right now, Matt? This is this for me, this is my last question that I have. Why right now? What's the urgency? Right now, what's the urgency? I think that there's the trap of falling into like, well, when she gets to this age, we'll have more time.

Or when she gets to this age, it'll be easier. True. And just falling into that cycle of, well, that's a good thing, and I think we should make time for it. But we'll make time for it when x happens and I will say that I do um one of the reasons I do like your podcast quite a bit thank you the difference between your podcast and like just so you know online searches is that you come at it from a very relational angle where you're talking with another mom and you're sharing your stories and you're asking about questions that neither of you have thought about. And I think that there is something valuable to having that face-to-face

conversation as opposed to typing into Google, is it okay if my kid hasn't pooped for six days? Because those answers are the worst. And do not do an image search with anything you ever ask about your child. Yeah. But you're right. I am looking for someone that is willing to just listen and hear us out and kind of nod along knowingly and then tell us that it's going to be okay. All right. I've heard enough of this.

I'm good. I need somebody to be more of a jerk for a minute so I can say, shut your pie hole because I've been waiting to say that. To me? Do you want to say it to me? I can't say it to you. You're the judge. That wouldn't be deferential enough.

I can totally be a jerk. Hey, Matt, I have a question. Oh, good. I hope it's insightful. Yeah. Hey, Matt, when are you guys going to hang out with new friends? Shut your pie hole. You don't have time to hang out with new friends.

Oh, well, you guys have presented a very difficult case for me. I'm going to go into my chambers, aka I'm going to go hide in the bathroom and have some quiet time without my children bothering me to consider my decision. I'll be on my iPhone if you need me. Please rise as Judge Biz Ellis exits the courtroom. Janine. Yes. Are your current friends ever judgmental about stuff about you being a new mom? Not that I'm aware of.

Not to your face. No, I think they can tell that I'm like on the brink of tears every time they see me. So they're pretty sensitive, actually. That's great. It's so important to have friends who are not going to judge you. Do you think that it's possible that your fears about some of the potential new mom friends that you could have, your fears that they're going to judge you is in some way kind of you being judgmental of them? Yes, it's very possible. Yeah, well, I think not that, yeah. That's probably true. Matt, so why is it that you and Janine seem to have such different perceptions about how much time is available for new activities like making new friends? I actually don't think that we're perceiving time.

It's mainly energy. So I think that there is actual time during the week that we could do these things, and I think Janine would even admit that. But I do know that my wife is an introvert. admit that. But I do know that my wife is an introvert. She has to really psych herself up to meet new people. So I know that the energy toll is more for her than it is for me. Janine, how do you like your chances? Well, I felt really good going into this, and now I'm a little less certain. Okay. And Matt?

I don't. I think Janine's going to win. We'll find out in just a minute when Judge Biz Ellis reenters the courtroom. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In.

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app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge Biz Ellis reenters the courtroom. Well, Matt and Janine, I want to thank you both for bringing this case to our attention. It is an important one that I do think many, many people are actually going through. I want to start off by talking a little bit about

something that was addressed by both of you, a concern that you have about judgment and guilt and how that can go both ways, especially in terms of talking to people with kids and without kids. It can come at you from every direction, even from your best friends with kids or parents or relatives. I think that there is absolutely no escaping, in particular, in the first year of having kids, not questioning every single thing that you are doing as a parent, and not feeling super guilty

about the choices that you're making, and not second guessing yourself. This is literally 90% of how you spend your day, I think, as a new parent. And it is next to impossible to see somebody, I can remember so clearly clearly all the things I judged about other people with their kids before I had kids and when I had kids and how absolutely wrong I have been about it. In retrospect, only through years and years of having kids. only through years and years of having kids. And I would have kicked myself in the knee for even having said those very words of, now that I've had kids for a while. There's something horrible about hanging out with people who've had kids for a while,

because we can't keep our mouth shut. And we're pretty sure that whatever worked for our kid, I can remember a friend coming over with her daughter, who's a little bit younger than Katie Bell, trying to get a jacket on her kid. And the kid is just having a fit. That kid will not put that jacket on. That mom is just cramming that kid in the jacket. It is like the worst thing I have ever seen in my life. And I thought, well, because we take such time with our darling Katie Bell to get her into her jacket and we talk about it and we work on it. And she has never once screamed about putting her jacket on or putting sunscreen on or whatever. We are doing an amazing job and they are doing a horrible job or the opposite.

Their child is sleeping through the night. And suddenly, what are they doing that I'm not doing? This is somehow my fault as opposed to my kid's not a screamer, but the next one is. Okay? So I want to say that be careful what you wish for in general, both of you, from both sides, in terms of seeking advice or even leaving your house because it can be fraught with peril. That said, there are some really great people out there who have kids and some really great people out there without kids who can be incredibly supportive and helpful in terms of what you are going through because I think the end result is just looking for somebody to say that it's okay and it this is what worked for me it may not work for you but

keep trying and you're doing you're doing a And the other big takeaway, I think, is when it comes to friendships, the most important one is the one between the two of you. And that is the one that is going to need the most work, which is a horrible thing to have to say. No one wants to hear that it's going to be a lot of work. But it is. That is the friendship relationship that needs your focus and attention more than anything else, because it is going to kind of keep going like this for a while. You're both working. Your kid is going to sleep. Your kid is not going to sleep. One week, one of you is going to have more time. The next week, the other one may have more time. Or you might go for a really long stretch of time where one seems to be able to

get to do whatever they want, and the other person in the relationship is not. And that's difficult. And I totally appreciate the need for having a large community of friends, but I must emphasize that if you were to put that same effort into your own relationship, that is going to be the most rewarding. With that said, I am going to side, is that what he says?

I am going to side with Janine on this one. Because, and here's why, is because I honestly feel that this first year is a really tough year. You guys are going above and beyond, both of you, in terms of maintaining the friendships that you have. in terms of maintaining the friendships that you have. And the fact that you guys have ample opportunities right now to be amongst peers, especially with the church, which is a really great resource for you guys. It sounds like you have supportive friends. It sounds like you could go to these friends

and very clearly say, this is what we need. Because I'm not sure it's advice per se that you're looking for as much as it is a sounding board. Because you guys know what's best for your daughter, whether you know it or not. You guys are amazing parents. And you guys know what's right and know when it's not working out and know when to shift. And what you just need are people in your life for you to run this by and to say, that sounds good. And there's nothing wrong with asking your friends to say, that sounds good. And you're doing a good job. Would you like me to say something else to you? Okay. All that said, if this was later on in life, I might have weighed in differently.

And so I am ordering both of you to continue to look for opportunities to make new friends with kids. And when you see those opportunities, no matter how tired you are to make the effort to try and pursue those. And that goes for both of you. So if somebody says, hey, I really like those people. And I know you're really tired. But could we do brunch? Remember, everything doesn't have to be at night. Brunches are great. My kids all woke up at 5am. And so were these other friends that we met. So we were all having 7am.m. play dates. And it was life-changing because that's a really long stretch of time to be awake with your baby. So look for opportunities and promise each other that you will take them. And with that said, you guys really aren't doing a really good job. And I just, I think you guys are killing it.

Thank you. That's it. Thank you. That's it. That is helpful to hear. Matt, how do you feel about the judge's decision? I feel pretty good. I agree that I'd like to really pursue my wife and that that takes priority over meeting new friends. pursue my wife and that that takes priority over meeting new friends. Um, and it is also helpful to just keep eyes open and look for those opportunities. Janine, how about you? I'm super excited, a little bit relieved.

But also, I mean, I like what you said about like being open to making new friends. And I think that that will I'm hoping that that will happen more organically as she goes to daycare or start school. And we start she makes friends. We make friends with the parents type of thing. Yeah. There's 12 weeks, guys. Again, it feels like an eternity. But you guys have a long there's a, but you guys have a long game.

It's a long game you guys are playing here. Yeah. And these opportunities are going to come up a lot as you go forward. I mean, trust me, the moment that kids start rolling over and crawling, I mean, there's so many new things you get to do in terms of being around other people and events. I mean, it's weird to go to like a sing-along with your baby just laying there. So, again, this is a really tough time, guys, and you guys are doing great. Well, thank you both for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you.

Hello, teachers and faculty. is janet varney i'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast the jv club with janet varney is part of the curriculum for the school year learning about the teenage years of such guests as allison brie vicki peterson john Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, and remember, no running in the halls. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh! We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Wow.

Yeah. It's so weird to actually get to tell somebody what to do in terms of parenting. I know. Versus our usual MO, which is... It's like, whatever you're doing is fine. Whatever you're doing is fine. No, it is true. It was really hard to use like another side of my brain. And a little scary.

I will say. I was like, hmm, what are they doing wrong? How did you feel about my judging? How did you feel about the ruling? Because I will say, I totally get Matt's side of the case. I 100% get his desire to get

some more people in to help mentally as the mental game. I just kind of felt like he had lost sight of the fact that they really have that. They have that already in terms of a supportive friend base that lots of people don't have. And it is great. You know, like it's so good. and it is great. You know, like it's so good. And I also can see the benefits for Janine of getting out with some,

I mean, you know, not all of us are awful. Some of us are really good. It is kind of good. I was sharing with you when Stefan was saying you should really go hang out with Teresa Thorne. Oh, yeah. I was like, and my child was like three and a half, four, she was like four.

And I was just like, yeah, I know I should. I know. But I'm like, and my child was like three and a half, four. She was like four. And I was just like, yeah, I know I should. I know. But I'm like really tired. And like, is this how I want to spend my like two hours? I don't even know if I'll like this person. Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure she is great. Yeah.

But. Do I really need another great person in my life? Oh, if I hadn't done it. I know. I know. I know. Let's not go there. So again, I totally get Matt. Make new friends, but keep the old.

One is silver and the other gives horrible parenting advice. Well, this was a lot of fun. It was. We want to thank Julia Smith for producing the show and helping us put this together. And we want to thank John and Jesse for giving us the opportunity to do this.

Our show, if you guys haven't heard it, is One Bad Mother. You can find it by searching for One Bad Mother in iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also find it at MaximumFun.org. And I think you probably have a pretty good idea of what you're getting with that. More swears, though.

Yeah. There are a lot of swears. This, but more swearing. Yeah, yeah. Less judging, more swearing. And this week, also, we just launched a really exciting project, our Parenting Merit Badges, which are hilarious and also beautifully designed. We have a cute little video on Kickstarter. So go over to Kickstarter, check out our Parenting Merit Badges video, and share them with a parent friend or a non-parent friend.

friend or a non-parent friend. You can follow us on Twitter at One Bad Mothers or at Biz Ellis or at Teresa Thorne. You can find us on Facebook. We're around, guys. It's the internet, guys. We're on it. You guys are familiar. Maybe you've heard of it.

This week, also, with the Great Switcheroo, MaxFun's Great Switcheroo, be sure to find John Hodgman. He is hosting Risk this week. Bailiff Jesse is hosting My Brother, My Brother and Me, as well as Stop Podcasting Yourself. So you can find those guys there. And One Bad Mother is being hosted this week by Dave Shumka and Graham Clark of Stop Podcasting Yourself.

So thanks to Michelle Heflin for suggesting this week's case name. To suggest a name for a future case, you can like us on Facebook. The podcast regularly puts out a call for episode title suggestions on the Judge John Hodgman Facebook page. And if you have a case for the judge,

submit it at www.maximumfund.org slash JJHO. I have been your guest bailiff, Teresa Thorne. And I have been your guest judge, Biz Ellis. Julia Smith produces the show. Mark McConville is the editor. Thanks for joining us for the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned.

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