Judge John Hodgman - Judge and Jewry

Episode Date: February 27, 2013

Rebecca brings the case against her sister Jessica -- do their Jewish roots make them PART JEWISH?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, judge and jury. Becca brings the case against her sister Jessica. Becca considers herself to be part Jewish due to the sister's Jewish heritage and Becca's own sense of cultural identity. Jessica objects to this. She says that since she and her sister were raised in the Catholic faith, they can't in good conscience call themselves part Jewish. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. So Sussman is at work one day. You know, he has the orthodontic practice up there in London, Ontario, and he's making a plaster mold for connective bridge work in the mouth of one of his patients, Russell Krauss. The mold dries and Sussman's examining

it one day before fabricating an appliance. And he notices something unusual. There appears to be something engraved on the inside of the patient's lower incisors. Hebrew letters. And they spell out, help me, judge me. This is in a goy's mouth, Jesse. So Sussman calls the goy back on the pretense of needing additional measurements for the appliance. How are you? Noticed any other problems with your teeth? No, but there it is. Help me, judge me.

Son of a gun. Sussman goes home. Can Sussman eat? Sussman can't eat. Can Sussman sleep? Sussman can't eat. Can Sussman sleep? Sussman can't sleep. Sussman looks at the molds of his other patients, Goy and Jew alike, seeking other messages.

He finds none. He looks in his own mouth, nothing. He looks in his wife's mouth, nothing. But Sussman is an educated man. Not the world's greatest sage, maybe, but he knows a thing or two from the Kabbalah. He knows that every Hebrew letter has its numeric equivalent. So it's 845-4473.

Seven digits. A phone number, maybe? Hello? Do you know a guy named Krauss? Russell Krauss? Who? Where have I called? Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage in London, Ontario.

Thanks so much. And he goes. It's a Canadian House of pizza and garbage. You have pizza, garbage, what have you. Sussman goes home. What does it mean? He has to find out if he's ever going to sleep again. He goes to see Judge John Hodgman. Jesse, swear him in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

I do. Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his primary religious affiliation is that he once got a book blurb from a guy from the Church of Satan? I do. Yes. Very well. Judgeodgman the guy jesse the the grand high magus of the church of satan thank you very much satan forgive me becca and jessica you are sisters for an immediate summary judgment in your favor can you name the

piece of culture that i referenced as i entered the courtroom no i'm this is probably a stupid guess but is it a simple man not a not a stupid guess a great guess but the wrong answer a serious man serious man yeah i'm so lucky that you did not get that one because you obviously knew it it is from a serious man by the coen brothers and therefore i i do not judge necessarily in your favor until you make a case. Okay. Now, Becca, you are the younger sister. Yeah. And you bring a case against your older sister. And how does it go? My sister and I have a big disagreement about our identities. We have a Jewish father and a Catholic mother, and we were raised as Catholic. Okay.

But I do believe that we can identify as part Jewish. I see. And Jessica, you disagree? Yeah, I disagree. You disagree for yourself, or do you also disagree for Becca? Well, I try not to speak for her, but, you know, if I could, I would disagree for her. I'm going to allow you to disagree for her. Okay. There. So ordered. So in other words, you are claiming that Becca's claim that she is, what is your claim again, Becca, that you are

part Jewish? Yeah. Because your father is Jewish and was raised in the Jewish faith? That's right. And your mother is Catholic and was raised in the Catholic faith? Yes. And you were both raised Catholic going to Mass. Mm-hmm. But nonetheless, you are part Jewish because of your father's heritage. Yes.

And, okay, I just want to make sure that I understand. Now, this is a, I myself am, I think I've said before, a double-lapsed Catholic. That is to say, both of my parents were practicing Catholics. They gave it up and passed along nothing to me except the religion of WGBH public television in Brookline, Massachusetts. And watching Doctor Who every evening. And therefore, this is a little bit beyond my ken. It so happens that in a previous case, we had the benefit of someone learned in these things, Rabbi Michael Unterberg. Rabbi, are you there? Yes, I am, Your Honor.

Welcome. Now, listeners may remember you from the case that you brought against your daughter, wherein you wanted to force her to watch movies that you liked? That's correct. And did I not rule in your favor? It was, I thought it was a sort of wisdom of Solomon Wise compromise down the middle, I felt. Oh, I thought I ruled in your favor. I'm sorry. That's okay. I meant to rule in your favor. How did I rule?

rule uh that we had to have a uh well-established uh time set aside for watching that i couldn't so that she we would have time to watch movies together but only at those designated times oh okay because you oh that's right i remember now because because you were strapping her into a chair and holding her eyelids open making her watch movies all night long yeah yeah that was that was that was a weird thing. I remember. Right. That is not what happened, obviously. I do recall that I also ordered you to watch The Third Man together, or was that not?

Did I not? Oh, you definitely did, yeah. And did you watch it? I did. What is your daughter's name again? Avigael. Avigael. How did she go wrong, sir? It breaks my heart to this day. I

have it sitting ready to watch. I've actually rewatched it. She actually sat down with me once to watch it and fell asleep. And it's just the time has not worked out for us to watch it again, but I will continue to harangue her. What a shame. Well, even though you are clearly a terrible parent, you are still a wonderful rabbi and a great parent. I'm just joking around, for heaven's sake. No, that's okay. Now, when we last spoke to you, you were where in the world? I was in Cleveland, Ohio. Cleveland, Ohio, also known as the Israel of Ohio, but now you're in the Israel of Israel.

That's the one. Yes, fantastic. So, you have heard the arguments that have been made so far. Do you have any reactions so far as our expert witness? Well, I've heard one side of it. I'd like to hear a little bit more about what they think. Do I have any reactions so far? I'm intrigued. Very good. I think that's a perfect reaction. And I admire your reticence to rush to judgment. So whose side would you like to hear more detail from? Both, really.

I'd like a little more fleshing out of the case. All right. So let me start it off then by saying, Becca, why are you Jewish? Well, I'm not Jewish. I'm part Jewish. Okay. Is that possible, Rabbi Mike? Yeah, by some definitions, for sure.

How do you mean? Well, first of all, like anything else when it comes to Judaism, there's a million perspectives, like the old joke, ask three Jews, get four opinions. different ways of looking at things. But definitely, even in the Talmud explicitly discusses people who are not Jewish or Gentile, but some sort of part Jewish mixture. And biblically also, one could argue that there are personalities who aren't clearly one way or the other Jewish or not. Okay, Becca, so you're not ruled out automatically by the rabbi. Let's hear your argument as to why you are part Jewish. Well, I think that Judaism is not just a religion, but I think it's a cultural identity. I think that, you know, the idea of like a cultural identity is, of course, really slippery. The idea of like a cultural identity is, of course, really slippery and it's hard to pin down, but there's been, you know, there certainly are some kind of a little bit of a roadmap that I think we fit onto.

But first of all, here's where it gets tricky, right? Because obviously Judaism is a faith, right? And there is also an ethnic tradition, a number of ethnic traditions that align more or less with Judaism, right? And then there is a cultural tradition. And so, you know, where do you identify of those three? Because there's also just a whole mess of stereotypes. Do you know what I mean? Well, I mean, I guess guess i would what's the difference between ethnic and cultural all right you know what i'm gonna go to your sister while you

while you go back to your school books and uh jessica that was very tevye-esque which which one of us yeah and why oh these sort of looking at well which which what's the difference and how do i judge between ethnicity and culture yeah there's no difference who's speaking now sorry that was out of turn this is jessica jessica okay there's no difference between ethnic and cultural you know what i don't actually know but that's how i feel so when when becca describes well i'll put it on you uh the person who is going to be uh uh most judgmental and most accusatory when becca describes herself as being part jewish what do you think she means what does she identify in herself that leads her to make that claim you know again i can't really tell you what's going on in her head.

I can only tell you what I feel like if I were to say that. Okay. If you were to speculate, let's go to pure hearsay and speculation. What do you think she's talking about? I'm afraid I'm going to say something not nice, so I don't want to say it. Yeah, you know, I think everyone's afraid of saying, well, not everyone, but both of you seem to be afraid to take on this issue that you brought to this court hey i didn't take this issue all right just to be clear oh i'm ready i'm totally

ready i have i have a have you finished writing your thesis yeah all right go on let's hear that um i think that there is like a biological component to it. So, for example, Jews, Ashkenazi Jews from the German area tend to be carriers of cystic fibrosis. And my sister was tested and she is a carrier. Automatic Jew. And that's not. It's better than a circumcision go on but she had to go through the experience of being tested which you know i think is something that that jewish people

um have in common well i guess everybody has to get tested yeah everyone gets okay well still all right um i think that there's also like a cultural heritage um i think that my sister in particular is like kind of like a jewish mom um in a lot of her behaviors and i think that this is something that was inherited from our father um I think that my sister, both of us are like this. I think we're both very direct people. I think that we're both people that try to challenge, like we're Tevye-esque, as Rabbi Mike said, we challenge questions with more questions. And, you know, I think that we also are kind of like breast beaters. Like, we sort of bear the pain of the earth on our shoulders. You're Jewish in the way some characters on television and Broadway shows are Jewish.

This is what you're saying. Oh, yeah, I think so. But I mean, so is my dad, I guess. No, well, wait a minute. Did your father convert to Catholicism? No. Does he still practice Judaism? Kind of. Does he go to temple?

Sometimes. All right. Yeah. I think that's pretty categorical. I don't want to compare Judaism to pornography, but I know it when I see it. It's quite jewy but i mean i think if we have a history we have a history that you know is a lot i mean i identified some things but i think a lot is unidentified you know it's just part of our fabric it's just there. Right. But I mean, why is it important to you?

You identify to some degree with your father's faith and the ethnicity and bloodline that come down through your father's side of the family to you. And that makes perfect sense. Why is it important to you that Jessica feel the same way? Is that true, Your Honor? Does she identify with his faith or just his cultural heritage? Do you know what, Rabbi Mike? That's a reasonable question. I would just, I would say cultural.

I've dabbled. I've gone to some seders. You've gone to some seders? Yeah. Like how many would you say uh maybe like two or three did you go to hebrew school no okay um did you've been to two or three seders uh and uh any uh bar mitzvahs bat mitzvahs i've been to other people's but i know that doesn't count well yeah no i didn't imagine that you yourself.

I have a feeling that going to Hebrew school is part of having a bat mitzvah. So I don't think that I wasn't suggesting that you might have. How many have bar and bat mitzvahs have you gone to? I want to say maybe like four or five. I bet Jess has been to more than I have. So four or five, four or five bar mitzvahs, two or three seders. Rabbi Mike, how are we doing on the scorecard? I'm checking it off right now.

Any snake handling at all? Wait, wait, wait. How many Catholic ceremonies have you been to? That's a good question. A lot more. A lot more. When was the last time you went to mass? I don't know.

Were you baptized? Yes. And confirmed. And confirmed, no less. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah.

And do you? I'm not saying I'm not Catholic either. Okay. Well, can you be both, Rabbi Mike? I think you can. And I think part of this really hinges on when you're discussing ethnicity or culture, Jews also have this other vague idea of peoplehood, the Jewish people. I mean, the word Jew comes from people who come from the land of Judea, which was a nation that was sent into the diaspora and have wandered around the world for thousands of years. So essentially, there's this idea of a national

peoplehood. So one conceivably could be a Jewish person by their nationality, but follow another religion. Could, given what Becca has said so far, could Becca emigrate and become a citizen of Israel? Absolutely. In the 1970s, the state of Israel defined its Jew somewhat, I don't know if it's ironic is the right word, but they decided anyone who the Nazis would have treated as a Jew is eligible for the law of return to become a citizen of the state of Israel. In other words, it should be a haven for anyone whose identity is seen as Jewish in any way. So, yeah, both sisters are eligible.

And we know how much the Nazis hated Becca. I mean, that's a matter of record. Okay, so far so good for you, Becca. Jessica, what is your critique of Becca's point of view? Well, I mean, I can only speak for myself. I think that it is a laugh to imagine that we're like any more Jewish than any of the other cultures

that were around us when we grew up. Which include? Oh, like we're from the Detroit suburbs. So there's tons of Middle Eastern people. There's Chaldeans, East Asians, not East Asian. There's like every number of cultures everywhere. You're talking about in your neighborhood or in your family? In our neighborhood.

Okay. But my dad is like the biggest sausage eater of them all. He doesn't care. He didn't impart any of that to us. It's not like he was, I mean, like handing out dreidels. He just did not care at all.

He's, he's agnostic to the bitter end. And I don't, so like the way I see it, I don't remember who said it but Ashkenazic Jews yeah there is for sure an ethnicity there like you can't just say Jewish is an ethnicity or a race or anything because there's so many different kinds I think you can um it is by if you think it's a religion we're certainly not if you think it's a religion, we're certainly not. If you think it's a culture, I still say we're not because there was nothing especially Jewish about our upbringing. If you say it's a race, I, well, I mean, there are, I guess I don't want to say this.

Can I just say one thing? I need to backtrack. Sure. I don't know where to start with this. Can I just say one thing? I need to backtrack. Sure. I don't know where to start with this.

The reason I don't like saying that I'm Jewish, because I feel like it's a hugely poser thing to do. Like, I don't think that I can be, like, reaping the rewards of the... And historically, there has been no more rewarded Jews. But when people try to... You know, like but when people try to you know like when people there was this terrible boss i had once when i was in middle school he's like oh you're a jew i love jews you're great with money a terrible a terrible well i would love to say that i'm great with money but i don't think that it's my heritage that's going to explain that i mean i'm just i would like for my own x yeah i'm not

sure that guy loves jews no he stinks he was awful but it's just an example like i think when people the reason that people um group categorize other humans i think the the categorization method you use has got to match the purpose that you're categorizing for if you're trying to look for diseases then you talk about you know dna and stuff like that. I don't know what purpose we're trying to serve here, but if it's just to, if it's just to like. Get some status around the block. Yeah, if it's just that, then I like, I don't care what you say. I'm going to say, no, I'm not. And you know, like I'll live and die by my own actions, not by my ancestors. Do you think so?

You're saying Becca is just saying this in order to make herself more interesting and complex. Yeah, she's a Jew poser. That's what I'm saying. Whoa. Oh. Well, I mean, the thing the thing is that it is tricky because if you had a parent of Italian heritage or a parent of African heritage, you would never think twice but to say, I am part Italian or I come from a certain part of, my family come from a certain part of Africa, but because it is tied into faith and because it is a faith that has a very,

well, I don't want to say highly charged, but a huge historical importance. I mean, I got to say, Rabbi, I admire your inclusiveness, because I think that I might feel a little bit touchy about Becca, who was at Mass a couple of years ago, saying that she's a Jew if I were a Jew. Why am I wrong? I'm not saying I'm a Jew. I'm talking to the rabbi now. Sorry. Well, I think as a Jew who

believes in, you know, I see myself both as culturally and nationally, but also religiously Jewish. I feel that the values of the Torah teach me to be open and accepting and not judgmental. So that's sort of on me to find ways to be inclusive. Although technically the sisters can tell me if they agree or disagree.

I mean, technically, I think you guys understand that to Orthodox and conservative Jews, you're technically not Jews. And why would that be? Because rabbinically, for the last few millennia, we've identified Jews as children of a Jewish mother. And we've defined matrilineal descent. Reformed Jews, however, have accepted patrilineal descent. So from a perspective of Reformed Jews, you are both Jewish. What about people that convert? Convert in which way? Convert to Judaism. Let's say Becca wanted to complete the pose and to be truly the utter Jewish hipster. were to convert to Judaism, would the most orthodox Jews around the world still not accept her as a Jew, or would they?

If she wanted to convert? Yeah. If she wanted to convert, we would actually be obligated to explain to her that, first of all, we don't believe she'll have any problem getting into heaven as a non-Jew, that we don't have, we don't see ourselves as the exclusive religion. And we'd also be obligated to explain to her that despite this cachet that you guys seem to think there is to being Jewish, we've had a pretty rough road there for a while. So sometimes people don't particularly like Jews. So you have to realize what you're getting yourself

into. And if you felt that you still wanted to be in, you would absolutely be Jewish 100%, no different from any other completely Jewish. All right. Thank you very much, Rabbi Mike. So Becca, you're bringing this case against your sister. What do you want me to order? Okay. There is like a really specific conversation that happens often in our house where she'll say something or do something and her husband will say, that's the Jewish part of you saying that. And she'll say, I'm not Jewish. So I think she's wrong. Wait a minute.

What? What sort of, there's a lot to unpack there. Like, for example, when around the house, she won't drive on the Sabbath. I'm a little nervous to ask, but what are the sorts of things Jessica will do that her husband, of what faith or ethnicity is your husband? Oh, he's Arabic.

Okay. Religiously? Nothing. Agnostic. As much as my father. Was he raised in a particular faith? Yeah. The Arabic Ali V's. Oh, and I don't, I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. Oh, you know, it would be a real long discussion. Just suffice it to say it's kind of like the Mormons to the Christians in this country are the Ali V's to Sunni Muslims in Turkey. Oh, that was easy enough to say.

And I completely understand. Right. Okay. Where were we? So he thinks he'll say that I do Jewish things. But mostly I think he does that because his greatest joy in life is to tease me. And he does it to get my goat. Right.

Well, that is Arab Ali Viva all over the place. You know what I mean. You know, those guys are always teasing. So true. Some stereotypes are true. Okay. And then you, you, so Becca, you feel annoyed when she then defends herself as saying, I am not Jewish. Yes. Why?

Because that's not true. She's not, not Jewish. Hmm. Mm-hmm. That could be a new category. Yeah. Like she could say, no, that's not the Jewish part of me or you're crazy or something. But the answer, I'm not Jewish, is just wrong. You know, it does come. I'll save that for my for my ruling. So what would you. So this goes back to the question then what would you like me to order well next time her husband says she's being jewish for her to say absolutely i am jewish

or at least part jewish but but those but those words in hebrew what i guess um it would be nice if she stopped saying that. But I think that what I desire, I guess, goes more deeper than that, is that she needs to kind of back off a little bit. When if I talk about our Jewish identity, she is like a guard dog about it. How do you mean? I mean, she's just so adamant, like, no, we are not Jewish. You know, she just doesn't, she doesn't like entertain the idea at all when I talk about us or, you know, something going on.

When you're at mass and you stop and stop the priest from giving you the wafer and you're like, hang on. There's no shrimp in this, right? This isn't a shrimp ship because I am part Jewish. And she's like, what are you talking about? Like you want her to allow that to happen? Jessica. Yes.

Do you get mad at your sister for saying that she's part Jewish? I don't think mad is the right word. saying that she's part Jewish? I don't think mad is the right word, but if the thing is, if any member of my, I love my family. And if any, if any member of my family acts in a way that I personally wouldn't act, it makes me uncomfortable. So if she says she's Jewish, I feel like I'm saying I'm Jewish. And like I said before, I don't feel comfortable taking on. It's not that I don't like Jews. I think I think being Jewish would be really cool, but I don't. Oh, everyone agrees that that's right.

That's why we're all trying to be Jews. I just want us. I mean, like, if any, I'm not I'm proud of my heritage. No question. But I would stop short of saying that I am Jewish because I don't feel like I've earned the right to say such a thing. And I don't. And you don't think that she has either?

Well, I don't think I do. And so when she says that, I feel like I'm, you know, like when your family does things, it just, it just irks you because you feel like it's an extension of yourself. And so I try to shut the whole conversation down by saying we are not Jewish. Like, end it right now. To what degree would you say this is a principled position? And to what degree is it that you just love telling your little sister what to do? I don't love telling her what to do.

It's 100% principled. Becca, I do it out of necessity. It is 100% principled. I don't like telling anyone what to do. I just want people to behave. Okay. There you go. That is very coincidentally the motto of this court. Rabbi Mike, are you still there? Yes, yes, I am.

Before I go into my chambers to meditate on this subject, is there anything else you can tell me that would guide my decision? I don't think so. I do think that you have a tough decision because it becomes this thing about personal identity. I do think that, if I understand correctly, Rebecca's not calling herself a Jew. She's saying that she's part Jewish. Is that correct, Becca? Yes. Right, okay, not calling herself a Jew. She's saying that she's part Jewish. Is that correct, Becca? Yes. Right. Okay. Go on, Rabbi Mike.

So it seems to me that there seems to be a bit of a hang-up over language here, rather than they might be able to come up with some compromised language that might suit them both. You understand that in the religion of law that is the court of Judge John Hodgman,

there is no compromise? I understand. Can I interject really quick? I don't have a problem. If part Jewish is verbal shorthand for part of my family is Jewish, then I have no problem with it. Only if it means that. I see.

And Becca, is that all that it means no no no deal what is it that what is it in you that is which brings us back to the very first question what is it in you that is part jewish what attributes beyond the fact of your heritage do you identify with the magical blood-borne jewishness that gives you both cystic fibrosis and what, a taste for chopped liver? Pickled herring. Pickled, yeah, thank you very much. I'm getting hungry now. Yeah. Well, I think that's a really tough question, and I feel like to answer it would just sound racist. I mean, I'm trying to like make put it into little bites of something that you can hold on to i think i have everything i need to make my

okay i'm going into my chambers now to make my decision please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom becca how are you feeling i don't know i feel a little nervous. Just admit it. The part of you that feels part Jewish controls world banking. That's what you were going to say. But she feels really guilty about it. I think it should be said here that Catholics have their own, they have their own share of guilt too.

So who knows where that came from? It's true. Jessica, how are you feeling about your chances? I know that I swore to abide by whatever decisions, but I mean, I'm not going to change. I'm not. I don't care even if my genes, even if I have a Jew gene that shows up positive,

I am not going to claim that. Rabbi Unterberg, do Jews wear a special type of jeans? I don't think so. Well, anyway, you know, what can you do now? What's been said's been said. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. family, not tradition, but a familial faith, or whether we identify Judaism as something that is passed in blood. Obviously, Rabbi Mike points out that most Jews do identify Jewishness as passing down at least through the mother, and now more recently through the father and therefore

there is a familial or and maybe even genetic aspect to it uh that uh but it is obviously more complicated than talking about nationality uh or talking about ethnic background because it has also a matter of active personal belief and faith associated with it. Based on Rabbi Mike's wisdom and guidance, I do, as a non-religious double-lapsed Catholic in Park Slope, Jessica, as per your sister, you are not not Jewish. But equally, Becca, I have to say, if the only Jewish parts in you that you would personally identify with, you fear to state because you don't want to sound racist. No. I fear to state quickly. Then I think it's hard for you to say. then I think it's hard for you to say, then I think it's hard for you to say, I am part Jewish. So in a sense, you are both wrong. I understand where you're coming from, but these are things that to me are very delicate,

perhaps not. I mean, Rabbi Mike, where, where am I right? Where am I wrong so far? I think that overall you've basically been right, except that I would, I would use the language a little differently. I would say that Judaism is the religion and the faith and Jews refers to the people and the culture. And I, I guess. But Jewish unfortunately refers to both correct and so and so rebecca needs to or would have needed to articulate what it is about her that

is jewish i think yeah i think so too i mean i i i think that either one of you can say and would say happily that you have Jewish heritage and Jewish background and an affection for at least one Jewish person, your father, I am not a Jewish person or a part Jewish, but I have Jewish heritage. And Becca, I think where you are now is frankly the more problematic. Because I would say, and I would be perhaps a little bit less inclusive than the rabbi in this case. perhaps a little bit less inclusive than the rabbi in this case. Because I would say if you are out there claiming not merely that you have Jewish heritage on your father's side, but that you are actively currently part Jewish for reasons, those reasons have to be, to my mind, you're going to have to do a little work as a, within recent years, practicing Catholic to be making that claim.

And for it not to seem weird or foolish or identified with traits that might just be cliches rather than an actual part of the both ethnic and religious tradition of Jewishness, shall we say. Yeah, that's fair. So, my ruling is as follows. Jessica? Yeah? Not Jewish. Next time you fill out any forms,

that is what you have to put on. I can make that order because I know you're not going to do what I tell you anyway, which is? You did not retire to chambers. No, my chambers have listening devices. Oh, I see. The courtroom is bugged. I'm always listening.

I think you're right. And Becca, I have to side with your sister here, even though you brought the thing. I don't think that you should be going around saying that you're part Jewish, unless in your mind. And when asked for clarification, you explain, yeah, my dad, my dad is Jewish, but he's non-practicing and neither am I. Because beyond that, I think you're affiliating with cliches. And even though Rabbi Mike would welcome you in Israel through the rite of return to become a Jew, or to be a Jew, as a Jew, as a person of the Jewish nation, that's not what you're doing. If you were doing that, I'd say, yeah, go for it.

You are absolutely part Jewish. Indeed, you are a Jew. But if you're just hanging around eating bagels saying, I'm part Jewish, this court finds that a little gross. Therefore, I find in the favor of the not not Jew. There shall be no there shall be no punishment since this is all a matter of faith. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Becca, how do you feel? I felt like I knew that this would probably happen, but I also think like tomorrow I'll come up with a bunch of really good arguments. Well, tomorrow in the old Church of Satan proverb, you got to make your case today, sister, and you got to be wearing a goat mask while you do it. You're right.

Well, Jessica, Becca, Rabbi Unterberg, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. An exciting case, eh, Judge Hodgman? What's that, Jesse? Oh, I was just trying to play this shofar because, you know, I'm part Jewish. Sure.

Is that a genetically inherited ability? Well, the ability to play the shofar, of course. Hi, Rabbi Unterberg. Nice to have you here. Hi, thanks, Jesse. Rabbi, what did you think of my ruling? It made me realize that you have a profound sense of authenticity, that you don't like people claiming things easily. You want them to be really through and through. Well, I mean, I kind of felt that Becca had as much claim to saying that she was part Jewish as I did because I grew up in Brookline, Massachusetts. I mean, I've been to more seders than she has. Judge Hodgman, I would argue that your best claim to being Jewish is probably that really

great bagel place like a block from your house. Oh, the Bagel Hole here in Park Slope, Brooklyn. Best. And I think most of the people who work there are Dominican. So, culturally at least. So, yeah. No, I'm super sensitive about this stuff because I grew up, you know, where most of my friends were Jewish.

And I also went to college in the early 90s, so identity is really important to me. It's highly charged stuff. But I really was guided by your wisdom and your inclusiveness was very impressive to me, sir. Judge Hodgman, I think that's called the different world factor. Precisely. And if Dwayne Wayne had a catchphrase

I could remember, I would say it now. I think he just flipped his glasses. Yep, I just flipped up my glasses. Thank you very much, Rabbi Mike. Now you live in Israel. You moved from Cleveland to Israel. You mentioned off the air in August. Correct.

May I ask what brought your family to Israel from Ohio? I've always wanted to move here since I was in elementary school, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah. Presumably you had visited several times before. Oh, many times, sure. And do you think that this will be a permanent move, or do you think it will be...

Yeah. Oh, wow. I miss the U.S. very much, but I'm very happy to be here. And it's a profound life change. It sure is. For you and your children. But do they still have copies of The Third Man there? Yeah.

I got it. I got it on my hard drive. Okay, good. Let's get that. Let's get that done. Okay. Soon. Well, hopefully she'll hear this podcast and you'll put the fear of God into her, Judge Hot.

So to speak. Yeah, I'd rather not use that name, but that's fine. How old is she now? She is 18. That is the perfect age to watch The Thin Man. No, The Third Man. And The Thin Man. All right, let's clear the docket.

Gila, I'm guessing, writes in with a question regarding social etiquette. Herman meets with a sign. Let me interrupt right now, everybody. I'm going to listen to this social etiquette question because it's fun for me to tell people how to live. But this is not the ethicist nor is it miss manners everybody who's writing in asking me is it okay to litter when you're drunk signed drunky mclitter first of all yes second of all no actually no third of all i need a disputant to decide between a disputer and a disputant, you know, two parties. But I'm going to hear it from you, Gila, because I like your name.

Herman meets with a scientist friend, Bill, every month to have breakfast. Last month, Bill had a cough and was unable to cover it in time. This reads like a goofus in gallon. Yeah, I don't believe for a second she's got a friend named Herman who's a scientist. Last month, Bill had a cough and was unable to cover it in time, and it went across the table to where Herman was eating his breakfast. A week later, Herman came down with a cold. It sounds like a math puzzle. The first train was traveling at 40 miles per hour.

The first cough was traveling at Mach 1. Okay. The next month, Bill was still coughing and coughed right on Herman's food. Herman didn't want to insult his friend by suggesting that he cover his cough. It had already happened. He couldn't leave his food uneaten

or it would be suspicious as to why he wasn't eating his breakfast. He couldn't ask for a new platter as that would also be obvious, but eating the food was a risk. He ate it and a week later, he had a new platter, as that would also be obvious, but eating the food was a risk. He ate it, and a week later, he had a new cold. Our idea. To tell Bill, if you're still sick, I think we should postpone getting together until you are well.

But that would not answer the question of what to do during slash while in the situation. Judge Hodgman, what is the correct response to the cough? First of all, if someone coughs on your food, don't eat it. That's gross. Second of all, Rabbi Mike, am I correct in remembering from my Brookline days that in the Jewish tradition, a friend is defined as someone you can tell to stop coughing on your food? I believe that's in the Talmud somewhere. Right. I mean, it's like, if they're friends, I don't care if they are scientists.

One guy should be able to say to the other guy, what you did is gross. I don't even think you have to be human to be able to do that. I think in the animal kingdom, that's the norm. Yeah. Thank you very much, Rabbi Mike. I agree. I don't know who, when she says our idea, who is she referring to? This is the most mysterious letter I've ever received. I don't believe either, when she says our idea who is she referring to? This is the most mysterious letter I've ever received I don't believe either of these guys exist Zealot is obviously not an actual

given name, but rather some sort of operational name, like Condor It's some kind of monster, isn't it? Isn't it some sort of poisonous lizard? Yeah, it's an island monster But, you know, it begins the guy wasn't fast enough to cover his cough. Coughs are not sneezes.

You know what I mean? You know when one's coming. Second of all, next time, guy doesn't even bother to cover his mouth. No, no, this adds up. This all seems weird and phony and fake. But on the small chance that it's true, weird and phony and fake, but on the small chance that it's true,

my judgment is that if someone costs on your food, you don't have to eat it. Just say gross and order some more food. And the other guy has to pay. That's science and religion operating in tandem for once. Thanks to you, Rabbi Mike. Next. Here's something from Alex.

In light of the podcast episode, Bleached and Mounted Bones of Contention, I thought you might enjoy having a look at this proud Canadian museum. Jesse may also be interested. I believe that it may be next door to a Canadian house of pizza and garbage. Now, this museum is online at gopherholemuseum.ca, and I apologize for buzz marketing it, but it appears to be a museum of gopher holes. I will allow. Oh, my gosh.

Look at this little gopher. Oh, the little gopher is wearing, he's an Old West gopher, and he's wearing a cowboy hat, and he's driving a wagon train. Oh, what are you up to, little fella? I'm clicking on the link that says dioramas so I can learn more. Oh, look at this. These gophers are getting married. Oh, are one of them an old-timey? Oh, look at this.

Oh, now they're just regular gophers. In this one, they just were gophers. Oh, look at all these gophers are getting married. Oh, are one of them's an old-timey? Oh, look at this. Oh, now they're just regular gophers. In this one, they just were gophers. Oh, look at all these gophers. And thus concludes our segment of Judge Sean Hodgman in which Jesse Thorne narrates websites for the sightless. This one's going sledding. You have obviously broken the brain of my bailiff. So, Alex, I will allow your buzz marketing

This one has a pet dog! for this Canadian Museum of Taxidermied Gophers. Jesse? Yeah? Would you please unplug your computer so that I can ask you a question

without you going into a spasm of delight? This slideshow plays automatically. It's uncontrollable. Oh, do you see the ones so that I can ask you a question without you going into a spasm of delight. This slideshow plays automatically. It's uncontrollable. Or do you see the ones, the gophers, who are standing on top having won Olympic medals? Yeah. They're standing on the tripartite platform.

Congratulations, little guys. Jesse, where do we stand on the Nightmare Gerbil contest? Oh, we have two finalists for the Nightmare Gerbil contest. They were selected by our intern, Thomas. We literally got hundreds of submissions for this contest. This is by far the most popular thing we've ever done. Now, Jesse, would you explain to Rabbi Mike what the contest was exactly? So we asked listeners, and I believe it was 200 words or less or 250 words or less,

to tell us why they should be the home of the nightmare gerbil, which is this horrible beast that was said to me by some very sweet MaximumFun.org listeners and fans whose wedding I performed a few years ago as a sort of thank slash F you gift. And just to clarify, Rabbi Mike, Gerbil is a regional pronunciation of the word gerbil.

And by regional, I mean the five feet surrounding Jesse's father in all directions. Yeah, exactly. So we've got these two finalists. The first one is called Ode to a Nightmare, Gerbil by S.R. Claggett. Okay, I'm going to give you guys a dramatic reading here. Zoonomic Muse, your powers I enlist to persuade Hodgman, Judge, and Jesse, Fist of Justice. True and righteous, they must see. The Nightmare, Gerbilbil should belong to me. I long have labored to find and collect those artifacts time too oft will forget. To this assortment fine I hope to add a rodent fierce, rogue taxidermied. A wedgewood dish from silver

jubilee, the signature of Make Peace Thackeray, a cross from wood of Wesley's Pew Have I, and dust from Sir James Simpson's Diary. If fit with gerbil, all would want to see my cabinet of curiosity. And for this reason, may this poem move your judge's heart and my request approved. A beautiful poem. Oh, I thought there was another stanza coming. Okay, good. What was that person's name again, please? That was from

Shailen writing as S.R. Claggett. Shailen writing as S.R. Claggett, very nice. And the next finalist? This is from Lydia C., I am going to say here, Dear Judge Hodgman, you may have heard from me before and I am hoping to be awarded the gerbil from this week's podcast. If I'm awarded this honor, I promise to find him a suitable replacement mate. I would be in a position to do this because I am in the habit of bringing dead animals home to make artwork out of anyway. A hobby that I share with my mom and grandma. I'm willing to bribe you with artwork or plain, clean animal skulls. Attached are samples of my work.

So Lydia has sent a few samples of her work. Oh, geez. They are creepozoidal. Wow, that's some intense stuff there. I feel like I've stumbled into a Rob Zombie podcast of some sort. Looking at this PDF that this contestant entered, I feel like I have entered a Rob Zombie world. Yeah, so because you can't see this, you haven't received the email, Rabbi,

Because you can't see this, you haven't received the email, Rabbi, the person in question, Lydia, has created artwork out of the skulls of small mammals that I think she found and sourced responsibly and not murderously. And this goes beyond taxidermy. This goes even beyond rogue taxidermy. This is like gothadermy. rogue taxidermy. This is like gothadermy. The incredible structures bejeweled rodent skulls and a lot of things that look like skeksis from the dark crystal.

So, alright, that's some serious stuff. Well, I leave it to the judgment of Rabbi Unterberg. I can't possibly judge this. Who do you think should get the Nightmare Gerbil? And what do I get in return? A beautiful poem or a bunch of creepy skulls? Rabbi?

Well, I do think that I was leaning a little bit towards the creepy skulls because of the nightmarish nature of the gerbils. But the poetry was so well constructed and conceived that I think it has to go to the poet. Well, congratulations, Shailen. Send us your address and you'll get a disappointment slash nightmare in the mail quite shortly. And Jesse, were you specifically asked to not name Lydia's last name? No, I wasn't. I don't know if she would like her last name to be revealed, but it is

Lydia Comer. Okay, well let's just go ahead and do it. Yeah, Lydia Ann Comer. I only ask because it seems like the pictures that she sent in are a brochure, either a catalog of an exhibition or maybe a brochure of things she sells.

And they really are remarkable. And I think deserve, even though I would be terrified if she won and I got a Skeksis in the mail, I think she deserves some recognition. So would you say her name, whether or not she has given us permission, Jesse? That's Lydia Ann Comer. And unless she begs us not to, we will post this on the website.

Yeah. Well, thank you very much, Rabbi Mike, for lending all of your wisdom to this proceedings and your good nature and your love of both the third and thin men. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Hey, Judge Hodgman, before we go, I've got some big news. What is it? Well, you remember boatparty.biz, the website with a picture of a boat and a place to type in your email address, right? It's only one of the most ingenious websites I've ever visited.

I have great news, which is boatparty.biz is no longer simply a website with a picture of a boat and a place to type in your email address. It has been transformed. It is now the home page of the Atlantic Ocean Comedy and Music Festival. But what is that? I'll tell you, spooky ghost. host. It's an amazing, it's an amazing festival that we at MaximumFun.org have put together with great sponsorship from our friends at KCRW and Splitsider. It is a cruise from Miami to the Caribbean, featuring a huge lineup of music and comedy performers, including not only you and I, Judge Hodgman, but also on the comedy side,

Curt and Kristen, Mark Maron, Al Madrigal. On the music side, we're looking at John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats, recent guest on this program, Dan Deacon, the amazing Dan Deacon, the beautiful and spectacular Miss Nellie McKay, and of course, our friend John Roderick, among others, among others.

Good heavens, what a lineup. All on one boat? All on one boat. All on one sea? All on one sea, and there will also be a shuffleboard tournament. So between those things, I can't imagine how you could do anything but go to boatparty.biz and get yourself a berth. I'm going over there right away to give birth to what? No, Judge Hodgman, just look,

it's all explained at voteparty.biz. Just a little homonym humor. Talk to you later. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate.

The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com. Find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.